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Miramax C&Ds Kung Fu Movie Reviewer
Mirkon writes "When a movie distributor attains rights to a film, it's rather predictable that they go after individuals offering the movie for sale or free. But Miramax took it a step further - as reported by Wired and on the site itself, Mark Pollard of Kung Fu Cinema received a Cease & Desist letter from Miramax concerning a link on Kung Fu Cinema to a movie purchasing site for the Jet Li movie Hero (set to be officially released in North America in April 2004). Fearing Miramax (and thus Disney) and their army of lawyers, Pollard deleted the link, as well as another for Shaolin Soccer, also unreleased in North America. Pollard criticized the studio for not permitting the original version of such films to hit the states, saying "If they own the rights to this film, then this film is not available to U.S. consumers -- period." The EFF also has some comments regarding the fact that Pollard has done nothing wrong in the first place."
Slashdot links to a story that links to Kung Fu Cinema that links to a movie purchasing site.
Beware the wrath of Miramax lawyers!
fp?But it seems like this is somewhere along the lines of telling someone where the nearest drug dealer ir (not comparing the two crimes). Isn't/shouldn't that be illegal?
Hello McFly!
You sell something in one country, other people in other countries are going to want it!
How exactly does this make marketing sense?
I'd be fairly To'd. links should not be illeagal under any circumstances. I really think that this is a freedom of speech issue which should be tried. We need a lager group to support him, or for Miramax to attack someone who already has support.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
at my local Chinatown. They're both pretty easy to find.
the guy was just linking. Like everyone that visits the site is in America. What about all the international readers of the site. the only thing this does is make the movie companies look retarded. People can still go the sites directly and order, so it doesn't actually stop the purchase of the original movies.
I was in San Francisco in September and I bought the Hero DVD in Chinatown !
(I also got a French subtitled version of Shaolin Soccer one year and a half ago !?)
How can Miramax be *that* late and how can they ignore that one may find these DVDs in Chinese shops ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
The movie realy is good. A simple story told from several view points using a diferrent color scheme for each one. If you can, watch the original and do not go to the US release.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
In an age where intellectual property laws interfere with our ability to communicate efficiently to this degree and with such frequency, piracy is a virtue... perhaps even a right.
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
Yeah, I believe that one. Shaolin Soccer was supposed to have come out this past summer... saw trailers for it during Bend It Like Beckham and saw movie posters for it hanging in theaters. Has it been released theatrically here? No. Even if it had been, it was going to be a highly-edited version.
That's why people end up having to buy things like Hero "illegally." In fact, I think I'll go order a copy right now... before Miramax tells eBay to cease and desist...
"This? I can make a hat, I can make a brooch, I can make a pterodactyl..."
I hope Miramax do realise, that by the time they release these movies - most of their core audience will have already seen the movies.
Thanks to this thing called p2p.
The EFF also has some comments regarding the fact that Pollard has done nothing wrong in the first place.
Whether or not he did something wrong is irrelevent. It's whether or not he did something unprofitable. Some corporations these days seem to believe they have a god-given right to profit, and that censorship and lawsuit chill is an acceptable tool to that end.
Until the average freedom-loving American starts to wake up to this and works to get the courts to adjust, it's probably only going to get worse. What happens when they realize that not talking about it on a website doesn't curb the problem? Tinfoil hats, people, they'll be after your thoughts next.
I'm sort of kidding, but not really. They're already blaming text messaging for ruining movie profits.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
The "Region system" for CD's makes no sense, as all it does is hinder sales.
If I am in Region 1 and want one of the many Region 2 DVD's (that will never come out in Region 1), I have to get a hacked DVD player, or get a pirated/cracked version of the CD.
Next time you see those "Movies: They're worth it" anti-piracy ads about lost revenues, remember that the movie industry is throwing roadblocks in the way of those who want to legally purchase AND view legitimately-pressed DVD's. If they wanted money, they'd make the DVD's available to those who want to buy them.
And here is Miramax proclaiming it a grand victory. It is such a victory that they just forced hundreds of formerly potential customers into p2p file sharers. Miramax must love how they're encouraging the illegal file sharing that their other movie studio bretheren have damned as dangerous. Give a hand for Miramax, another promoter of P2P technology.
A file swapper is not born, he is created when something desired is not availible at the price desired. When that something is not availible at all, that turns all of those that wish it into p2p file junkies.
Sorry state of affairs, honestly.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
"This is why I ordered a copy of this killer movie from Hong Kong the day Miramax said they where going to be doing the US release."
Dont you need a PAL capable DVD player?
Well, not totally unbelievable (coughcoughriaa/mpaa/dmcacoughcough). But it's pretty crappy. 1. Offering a link is not illegal, is it? 2. What are they doing to prevent the seller from selling to U.S. customers? Isn't that a more logical target if you want to stop these sales? One of these days I'm going to give up and go live on Mars. Ooh, and what luck! There's a Java Mars clock available!
there may be real reasons why they don't want it available in the US market, legal reasons, copyright reasons hell mabee they don't want to be exposed to the US legal system do you know how many ways somebody could be sued these days?
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
Is anyone here aware of a utility that actually changes the Region designation on DVD's during copying?
I had a hard time finding Hero also. Know what I did? Downloaded it from eDonkey. And if they don't fuck up the release over here (ie: chop it up, dub and/or dubtitle it without making the original vocal available), I will still purchase it. Idiots.
Sorry, no ed2k link provided. I don't want to get my own C&D. Shouldn't be too hard to find though.
BTW, I bought a copy of Wasango (sp? Volcano High in English) on eBay for $10. Region free. Wanna bet that's legit?
It appears that Miramax is stating that their exclusive rights to movie distribution include the purchase of IMPORTS. Since when is it illegal to import a legal copy of a video from another country? There are import CD and movies available at video and music stores all the time.
a lager group? hooray!
Remember the Michael Eisner (CEO, Disney) sketch on Family Guy?
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
seems like mirster I'm a f-ing idiot Eisner is up to his idiot behavior again. Since disney has totally forgotten how to make movies, they decide to butcher Hong Kong films in the hopes of making a buck. Miramax used to make good films, but lately they haven't done much. Atleast everything disney tries to change ends up being dog crap. it's only when disney takes their hands off, that movies come out decent and make a profit.
Whatever happened to the concept of a free market economy? Shouldn't people be able to purchase this film, and tell others where to do the same, without fear of being sued for it? What law(s) would this even violate?
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
These links are to buy films from Hong Kong that happen to merely share a similiar title (give or take translation) and much of the same footage. Since Miramax will not be releasing the film you can buy in the rest of the world to US cinemas, but rather a total re-edit, why should they care?
Far more damaging than simply getting things late is Miramax's technique of utterly mangling these films beyond all recognition. I wouldn't mind half as much about the wait if I knew I was going to get the actual film at the end of it, rather than some hack job. What is next? Getting in trouble for pointing out where to buy Total Recall, as some people might buy it rather than go see Paycheck?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
"MiraMax think they can easily get away with stopping release of movies in certain regions. All part of the greater scheme of sucking as much"
But doesn't it hurt sales and profits to say "We never will make it available for your country" ?
A whois of kungfucinema.com shows it's registered to a person in Seattle Washington. I think that's how they can bully the guy. I'm sure if there was a HK based movie selling site, there wouldn't be much that Miramax could do, unless they also owned the HK rights to the movie as well.
This is a classic example where even when a big corp. is wrong, making them do the right thing would cost too much time and money with almost no return.
"No, sorry, officer, I can't point you to the nearest drug dealer because we have a free-speech-limiting law in place that prohibits me to do so. You and you're fellow police officers will have to look elsewhere for your dope. Have a nice day."
I just don't get it.
Can't they work in a positive manner?
Ask the guy to link to thier site for the movie.
Give him a small clip or something to post.
Free publicity.
See Hero! ..and a slamming soundtrack.
with DMX (Voice) & Ice Cube (Voice)
now all we need is to get ILM to add some cars to it..
Was this a threating or a non-threating C & D letter? If it was a non-threating one, then maybe Miramax is in negotations to buy the movie and this information may have undercut their offer.
if you delay distribution for more than 1 year. Some companies seem to buy up exclusive distribution rights for asian movies just to prevent them from competing with their own products. Like Disney did with Studio Gibli and Miramax with Hero, Shaolin Soccer or others. (Just try to get a DVD of Drunken Master 2).
These tactics are in total contrast to the purpose of granting distribution or copyrights. Which should promote the arts and encourage artists to publish their work.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
By removing these links, he's making it more difficult for people to purchase these films, thereby allowing us to protect our interest in these properties. -- Matthew Hiltzik
Uhhh... what? Sooooo... it's in my best interest to... uh... NOT let people buy my products? Umm... I think I must've missed that econ class.
Direct translation from bullshit PR spin-ese:
By removing these links, he's making it easier for our people to rape consumers when it comes to purchasing our films, thereby allowing us to extort as much money as possible from innocent buyers by locking away legally purchased media. We do all of this under the guise of "protecting our rights" because we, big shitheaded corporate assholes, think that the only right consumers have is the right to give us money.
Bye bye Miramax! I hardly ever go to see movies or buy DVDs now because 1) movies in theatres are way too expensive and 2) I hate fucking around with CSS protectionist bullshit. I'm happy to report that in the rare event that I do plan to buy / go to a movie, I will make sure ahead of time it's not got anything to do with Miramax (and yes, I keep a list of these things).
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Hey, am I breaking the law by linking to places where you can buy this DVD??
Please C&D this post.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
He did the movie a disservice by writing something about it.
All we need to know about Shaolin Soccer and Hero can be accessed using AOL keywords SHAOLIN SOCCER and HERO.
Move along citizen, the computer is your friend.
When are people finally going to realize that situations like this, caused by strong copyright law are an inhibitor to the free market and not something that helps it. In this situation, even the copyright crazy who believe it's an artist's god given right to control the dispersion of their ideas should be able to see the problem with it. The "artists" (film-makers, actors etc.) released this movie abroad and are getting paid for it, these people were simply importing it.
a quick search on ebay reveals: link! so will they attack ebay? or what about: link again! It seems pretty obvious it's a pointless endeavour. There are tons of sites out there where you can get original, uncut hong kong, chinese, japanese etc movies. The funny thing is, I prefer getting the movies when they come out on dvd, not waiting 2 or 3 YEARS to see them when some distributor in the US picks them up and decides to sell them. So, does google.com have to remove all instances of HERO from their system? I think not. Just because Miramax got the rights to the film, does not mean they can stop someone from distributing a version that was previously released. If they cared that much, they should have funded the production as far as I'm concerned.
The trick is, if we allow consumers to decide what they want for themselves, they will find and come to expect GOOD movies, which are much more difficult to make than "Gili". It's easier to ensure that you have a good return on your investment in a movie when you can totally control what it's competing with. Additionally, it's easier to milk each region for what it's worth, rather than having one price.
In short, they don't care about hypothetical sales for "hero." They want kung fu fans to shut up, get out there, and start paying up for whatever they have decided is the kung fu movie for december 2003 is. Stop telling them what you want. The movie / music industries will tell you what you want, and when you can have it.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
I bought the Chinese edition DVD for 12 bucks in Chinatown the other day...
Pretty good movie.
This reminds me of anime fansubs you can get from newsgroups or bit torrent. While the anime isn't licensed in the US all is good and download all you want. But as soon as its licensed, the links go down (for torrent at least) and you're out of luck if you didn't get all the episodes.
The movie Hero isn't from HK its from the mainland.
needed sometime to remember. I saw that movie at least 3 times earlier this year.
Complety forgot about it. If I ever see the DVD in a shop I will probably not even remember it.
Way to go - thats how you gain customers. Make the movies available so late that everyone has forgotten about it. I suppose it works with LOTR, but Hero was not that good... and I dont read the book a couple of times a year.
-- Put crudely, the world is an extremely large problem instance. (Russel/Norvig Artificial Intelligence)
I thought if there is any place on earth where they've got all the movies ASAP, then that must be america.
:).
Here in Europe both movies are already out of the cinemas and available on DVD in every fucking store.
Hero is great. I have seen that movie twice. Once in a THX enabled cinema with all the BOOOM stuff and once in a little program cinema with subtitles
Shaolin Soccer is furious! Probably the most insane movie about soccer ever made.
By now it should be clear that globalism and multinationalism is something for the benefit of corporations -- cheaper labor, differential market pricing. It's not for consumer benefit at all.
On a side note, there is a "Shaolin Martial Arts Studio" that I often pass by, and I can't help but think of that movie and laugh (and picture kids kicking flaming soccer balls) whenever I see that sign.
Amazon's got it, from a guy in New York. Interesting that Miramax doesn't tackle them.
It's unlikely that they would really sue; they're *counting* on the fact that spineless cowards like this guy will give in without a fight. If he actually called their bluff, they'd probably do nothing. And if they did, he could (and should) countersue for millions! If people who are threatened starting countersuing in greater numbers, you can bet the big corporations would start thinking twice about making such threats.
The world has gotten a lot smaller since Nelly Bly's 1889-90 trip around the world. Goods and services travel around the globe readily; some are now all but universal. Various organizations act to strengthen "free trade" between countries. But the DVD region codes are a method for not only protecting copyright, but limiting who you can sell your initial copy to, unless they have a region-free DVD player.
With the routine shipping of items around the globe (I've ordered obscure computer hardware from Australian PC dealers a couple times), this attempt to control the release of movies at different times in different countries seems doomed in a not overlong timeframe.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
"he's making it more difficult for people to purchase these films, thereby allowing us to protect our interest in these properties"
Surely the distributor of a movie should make it EASIER for people to BUY it? I hope the original owner of the movie has some words with them....
no taxation without representation!
Fuck the Mouse that Whined. Nobody has the right to interfere with free trade of lawfully obtained property between consenting adults.
Fuck Slashdot
Man, this is absolutely incredible. There was a theatrical release for both movies (which both TOTALLY ROCK!... I can only hope that Miramax & Co. don't butcher them!) here in my country a long time ago! Hero was released here late last year, and Shaolin Soccer not long after if I recall correctly. Now, Shaolin Soccer, and maybe even Hero, have actually even been popping up on the Chinese cable channels (with English subtitles, thank goodness) occasionally. Does a whole lot of good for them to be closing the barn door after the horse has already run around more than half the world for about a year ongoing, don't ya think?
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
Miramax buys up the rights to major martial arts movies, then butchers them for their release to the US. Disney buys up great animated movies from Japan (Princess Mononoke/ Spirited Away),dubs them in "American", then releases the movie to only a a handful of theaters, with a very limited marketing budget to 'prove' that there's no real market for the movies in the US (and to cutdown on the competition with their inhouse animated products.) If people can buy the original version of their 'products' overseas, shouldn't that a benefit of Globalization? Someone needs to challenge the Mouse in court and take them down a peg or two. I think a countersuit for attempting to violate the site owner's Free Speech Rights is in order.
-------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.
That movie is so good. Probably the best Chinese cinema since Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and in some ways better. Totally amazing that it was the director's first action movie. He also directed 'happy times' which was a story set in the modern day urban China which is similar only in its bright colors. Basically Hero is worth buying on the black market, but I can't wait to see it on the big screen. It sends chills down my spine just thinking about it. I wonder if they'll keep the one line translated as "How swift thy sword." Great last words.
It is 100% legal for a US Citizen to purchase the film from an importer (or by importing it themselves) without going through Miramax. If Miramax doesn't like the fact that they don't really have exclusive control of the market, then they should sue the makers of the film for selling copies in the far east without somehow guaranteeing that none of those copies will get to America. This is ridiculously impossible to do, of course, but that's the just the nature of how impractical an exclusive distribution contract is. There's no such thing as geographical exclusive control anymore; this is a global economy.
Miramax's argument is deception, and the person to whom they wrote the C&D, was not violating their rights.
It's disappointing that this dude caved in. I can understand it; I might cave into bullies too, instead of paying a lot of money for defense. But there's no way he would have lost, had it gone to court.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Don't buy anything from Disney.
I don't.
Ever!
At one time Disney may have been about making good, fun, wholesome movies but these days they are just about greed.
They don't even make very good movies anymore. They all pretty much have the same lame plot.
1) Young "person" disobeys parents/teacher/tribe/king because adults are stupid.
2) He or she has big adventure.
3) At the place where they should start suffering the consequences, someone bails them out.
4) They return home as a hero.
5) They were right, adults really are stupid because it all turned out ok in the end. (Notice that no mention is ever made, or even thanks offered, that those "stupid adults" may have risked everything including life, limb, and eternal suffering to accomplish number three.)
Every wrong attempt discarded is a step forward - T. Edison
There's a Drunken Master 2??
I didn't know... but now I'm gonna see it one way or another!
URGENT NOTE: According to Disney*, who claims exclusive North American distribution rights to this film, it is a violation of United States law for any North America-based company to sell this title. Any such competitors of ours selling this title are doing so in violation of U.S. law. We are as unhappy about this as you, and we thank you in advance for your continued support of HKFlix.com. If you'd like to express your opinions about this issue to Disney, we strongly encourage you to visit THIS WEB SITE and sign the online petition they've prepared. We also encourage you to call Disney at 1-800-72-DISNEY, and email them at disneyinfo@disneyhelp.com to politely voice your concerns. Let them know you'd like to see these important Asian films released in their original language, in their original widescreen format, with their original title, with their original soundtrack, and uncut. * We loosely use the term "Disney" to refer to the entire Buena Vista family of studios, including Miramax, Dimension, Disney, Touchstone, etc.
I think the important text is the North-American based part. Everyone else can sell this legally.
P.S I dont believe in online petitions so im not replicating the links here but they are on the original page.
Mirmax funded the production of hero, instead of later purchasing the rights. So i would assume that the are already made some money on it. Unless their contract only allows them to make money off the US release.
I for one already got my copy of both Hero and Shoalin Soccer. Both of them are avaialable at sensasian.com.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
and post the text of the C&D, which contains the link.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
Actually, it shouldn't be hard at all to buy a copy of Drunken Master 2. It was released here in the US as "The Legend of Drunken Master." Good luck finding a copy of Drunken Master 1...though to be honest, DM2/LoDM is a better flick.
Which I saw last night, since I still live in the Free World (aka Oceania).
The movie is a telling of an old Chinese story. If you ever read Chinese mythology, you will know that they are mixed from generous helpings of love, drama, treason, duty, battle, beauty and tragedy, set in landscapes of stunning mountains and gorges, and generally featuring the epic plotlines Tolkien was inspired by when he wrote LoTR and the Hobbit.
Hero is no different. The movie is visually stunning, a tapestry of color and force. It paints an overlapping series of stories, and the five main characters get more and more complex as the film progresses through intense red, blue, white, and green.
The Kung Fu scenes are dreamlike and truly beautiful. Only the slightest sense of repetition spoils a few of the scenes, but it is easily compensated for by the sensuality of the filming. Yes, it is ridiculous to see people running on water or across tree tops, but this is the story of a person recounting his version o a myth. Some poetry is in order, and Hero delivers.
The ending - which I won't divulge - is downbeat and not what I would have proposed, but this is true to the style of ancient Chinese stories, which do not - like many Western myths - celebrate the survival of the individual in the face of adversity. Rather, they tell stories of how intense personal tragedy and suffering can be placed into a greater context. A few dramatic deaths serve to highlight the lesson.
Don't go to Hero expecting to see amazing fight scenes. It's a movie to relax with, a film to see twice, one to take your girlfriend to and to hold her when the lovers die, in true Romeo and Juliet fashion, alone on a mountain top.
What I liked most about this film - apart from the visuals, the sound, the scenery, and the subtle plot - was its ability to portray all the characters as sympathetic, from the tyranical king, alone in his citadel of a palace, to the assassins and killers, each shown at the end to be Heroes. There are no villains in this film.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
That's brilliant. You should write that up at halfbakery.com.
However, it probably would make sense to be putting "distribute by" clauses inside the contract. Maybe not 12 months, but maybe by 18 months, or almost certainly 24 months. If the companies start taking longer than that, then I think the offering company should have the right to revoke w/o penalty and choose a different distributor, if they wish.
In any case, it's obviously a contract issue, and not anything that should be legislated like that.
from two video cds brought to my place from a female friend from chongqing
i like hero, it's pretty good, very visual, great subtle cgi... sort of like crouching tiger hidden dragon on steroids... it concerns an ancient emperor of china who united the empire, and the assassins in his care/ against him
there is this one scene where the two female lead characters are fighting in a forest full of yellow leaves... one uses the sun and the leaves to swirl and block the other's pov, causing her to impale herself on her sword... when she dies, all of the yellow leaves turn red... awesome!
and the guys fighting across the surface of the lake without causing a ripple? tre cool
you are so screwed, old guard of the traditional distribution channels
the internet is going to eat your lunch
sucks some of us have to get caught up in their death throes
you should have learned when fox news tried to sue al franken for using the term "fair and balanced" on his book cover: sales of his book skyrocketed
you should have learned when giuliani tried to outlaw that dung-covered madonna portrait: interest skyrocketed
so go ahead and fight: first rule of public relations: there is no such things as bad exposure... all exposure of a sublject matter is good
you are so screwed stupid lawyers
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
So in essence, they've now ticked off some of the fans by looking like they want to control the exclusive rights to distribution of the movie in their region, going so far as to stop imports. To a certain extent, region coding was supposed to enforce that. Obviously, however, Miramax took it into their own hands to go a step further. They aren't the first to do so, actually (I had an auction cancelled on eBay for an import DVD that I was bidding on because a company was going to release the DVD domestically - I'll spare the company by not naming them or the title here). But seriously, anime companies don't try to stop imports from Japan of their titles, and would be foolish to do so. They know better. Miramax apparently doesn't, and it might just come back to haunt them, though in all likelihood, it'll mean little.
This is a good example of the censorship that copyright produces. Copyright was created to increase the amount of information available to everyone. Instead, it is being used to keep people from accessing information that they would legitimately pay for.
The movies studios want to coerce fans into seeing the movie when and where the studios choose. Rather than allowing true fans to appreciate these movies when and where the fans, the customers, might want, they block their distribution. The movie studios do this whether or not the expect to release this movie in a given market. In the end, this leaves a minority of fans who have the interest and the financial means to see a movie locked out of it.
Whether or not the copyright holders of these movies believe they can make money in a given market, they will refuse to let people watch it. If they cannot make money, there is no incentive. If the information is not distributed, the incentive is not working for society and should not be granted to the rights holders. Either way, the movie studios are blatantly misusing their legal rights. Their legal rights exist to give enough incentive to get information to be disseminated, not to stand as a barrier to the dissemination of that information.
An individual should be able to purchase any movie from any market that person might desire to purchase from. Just because the majority of people in one area like some given thing does not mean everybody has to. Even if the movie is released in the US market, and most Asian movies are not, it still forces the US version on people, which in many cases has parts cut out of it and may be dubbed. An individual may want to watch the movie with subtitles or in its original language or in its original state.
The practice of restricting people by region is racist. Regionalizing is saying that because you live in such and such a country, you will pay such and such a price or watch movies in such and such a language. Because you live in such and such a country, you will know such information. What is the difference between this and bathrooms marked Colored and White? I guess Jack Valenti is more of a good-'ol-boy than we thought.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
Shaolin Soccer is hysterical (in a Hong-Kong is insane kind of way). It's about a bunch of losers who use magic powers to win local soccer matches. They also break into song and dance periodically for reasons unknown, despite the fact that it isn't a musical.
If you liked Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, you'll love Hero. It is sad and beautiful, with amazing battle scenes. In fact, the entire movie consists solely of amazing battle scenes, which serve to carry the interestingly twisted plot.
-m
I learned about Shaolin Soccer from a trailer in a theater at least a year ago, and have been eagerly awaiting the release. The preview said "Coming Soon" as did the posters that were displayed in the googleplex lobby way back when. So isn't Miramax falsely advertising this movie by saying "Coming Soon" and then not delivering?
"The practice of restricting people by region is racist. Regionalizing is saying that because you live in such and such a country, you will pay such and such a price or watch movies in such and such a language. Because you live in such and such a country, you will know such information. What is the difference between this and bathrooms marked Colored and White? I guess Jack Valenti is more of a good-'ol-boy than we thought."
What a fool thing to say. I suggest you look up race. Look at a region map, and yes there's only so much room on a disk, so a language has to be picked. Does it upset you mightly if all the actors aren't a generic gray, and we all don't speak a universal language? Your post is an insult to all the people who truely suffered and died (of all races) bringing equality to the world, just so you can fulfil your personal vendeta against an individual. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Radio AAHS - intelligent, educational radio stations for children. Radio Disney - blather marketing the latest Disney products (i.e. pop stars). One violation of contract later and AAHS is bankrupt and Disney is every major market in the country. They took Radio AAHS' experience with children's radio and bent it to their evil will!!
That said, The Emperor's New Grove is the funniest animated movie ever. "It's what we like to call a cruel irony, Cronk. Much like my dependence on you!" I feel so dirty...
Drunken Master 1 - horrible 1970s kung-fu flick except for the fighting techniques, which are brilliant.
DM II - The USian Legend of Drunken Master. Note if you get an Asian release of this film you will also get the end scene which was cut from the US release.
Needle Nardle Noo
I honestly haven't heard of cuts being enforced onto other Miramax foreign buys. They own the rights and release far too many good films for me to ignore and boycott. They might not get entirely even coverage, but Amelie, City of God (yeah, it got shafter overall, that one), and non-asian movies seem to get released eventually- w/o cuts.
Hell, Iron Monkey got cuts. Who the hell were they thinking was going to see Iron Monkey!?
I believe that Zhang Yimou (the director of Hero) has also come out to say that Miramax forced it to be shorter than he wanted.
May'be the Weinsteins' are still upset over losing Crouching Tiger, but I haven't heard of this kind of delay, and this constant cutting to their other purchases. Things they produce themselves is something else.
I believe they own the rights to Infernal Affairs too, a good, tight, cop thriller that's the best HK smart gangster film in a long time. The sequel is already out, there's an american remake in the works (they should beef up the women's roles)- but you won't see it in America...
I will. In the meantime, why not moving over to Europe? Here, when someone claims he's a citizen, he's usually a right-wing hardliner... Well, in France that is.
Lemme see if I'm tracking all this correctly.
Kung Fu Cinema had a link to a site where you can purchase a copyof this Jet Li movie. I'm guessing that this copy is in the original language.
If I were to go to that site, and buy this movie, I would be paying full price, plus shipping for a movie.
My high school economics teacher defined "buying" as Party A giving Party B some form of currency and in return Party B then gives Party A some form of goods and/or serviced.
Now assuming that you all agree with that definition, on what grounds does Mirimax order this C&D? I am giving Party B money, and they are giving me goods, which I assume the acquired in a legal fashion. Because this is a foreign film, I don't see where Mirimax has a juristiction over the original version. They would have all kinds of rights over the English version but not the original.
Can anybody explain this too me?
Pollard criticized the studio for not permitting the original version of such films to hit the states, saying "If they own the rights to this film, then this film is not available to U.S. consumers -- period."
Funny, I bought both Shaolin Soccer and Hero as gifts for people for under $10 each in Chinatown last week. And these aren't bootlegs, are uncut [which is a HUGE problem I have with Miramax], are excellent transfers and have perfect sound. SHaolin Soccer is actually made funnier by the Engrish subtitles as well.
Remind me why I should purchase edited, dubbed, region-locked versions of these movies for $20+ each again?
With Studio Ghibli and Disney, its a long story... Basically, Ghibli was really pissed about the hack-job the first American distributor for Nausicaa pulled. So much so that they now refuse to acknowledge that the release even happened. Disney (technically Buena Vista, but Disney for all intents and purposes) was, IIRC, the only one that would agree to a clause that said they could make no edits or changes other than dubbing. In return (again, IIRC) they got exclusive rights for all DVD distribution outside of Japan.
Unfortunately, then anime started taking off in North America, and Ghibli started producing "children's" movies that showed just how bad the stuff Disney offered really was. So Disney started sitting on releases, either those that competed with their own offerings (Spirited Away, which was in theaters for a whole day, even in a lot of big cities) or they felt were too far outside the target market. (Whisper of the Heart)
Ummm...you're kidding right?
Yes, this is one gorgeous movie. The colors, and views are amazing (expect no less from Christopher Doyle). The acting is decent to good- except Zhang Ziyi, I admit to not liking her, and it seems to me the cuts that the film (even your free world version) underwent under studio orders happened in her portion mostly, but she was bad...
But this movie is a subtle as a rock or 700 Club parable about the bible. Eeegad, its a hard task to compare oneself to Kurosawa, but the format immediately recalls Rashomon. It consists of several retellings of portions of the story, from alternate points of view. In this case, color-coded, but likewise heavyhanded.
Each portion is beautiful, but so stylized (and detail changes so drastic) that I wouldn't call it subtle. Everyone is arguably a collection of tics with vague motivations. The character with the most time to explain his thoughts is the future first emperor- a divisive person in history to put it lightly. May'be its just cynicism on my part, but I can't help but attribute a bit of propaganda to a movie so heavily supported by the Chinese gov't, that ends with the a inspiring (or tragic) view of the great wall, and basically pushes a nationalist, right or right, view at the end.
Heck, may'be I think unity was better than smaller kingdoms at war, may'be I even agree. But Hero wasn't trying to explore anything. It doesn't have a villain- when it should. Ambiquity isn't turning everyone strictly into heroes- ambiquity must show complexity and doubt- and Hero doesnt.
Oh, yeah, its worth seeing.
If I am in Region 1 and want one of the many Region 2 DVD's (that will never come out in Region 1), I have to get a hacked DVD player, or get a pirated/cracked version of the CD.
Actually, there are lists of software hacks that you can find on the internet to help with that. Of course, this doesn't really help most grandmas who expect something to work without punching in the first 6 digits of pi into their remote control keypad.
Oddly enough I had to use one of these hacks recently to view a Region 1 DVD on my Region 1 DVD player. When I tried to play the disk I got some kind of screen telling me that I needed a Region 1 player. I've never had that happen before. I tried inserting and removing the disk and even turning off the machine but got the same error each time. Finally I resorted to the software hack on that webpage for my machine and was able to watch the movie I rented. Boy would I have been upset if I had to go back to the videostore in the rain and exchange the disk.
However, seeing as how the disk was 'XXX' (with Vin Diesel) I probably would have been better off if I hadn't been able to watch it :)
GMD
watch this
1. Nobody has offered my a job in Europe.
2. If I did move to Europe, I would no longer be a citizen in the country in which I live.
Honestly, I'd love a chance to live and work in Europe. At least for a few years.
No matter how many of my rights are taken away, somehow I still don't feel safe. -Frigid Monkey
Where's your courage? Right next to your wallet?
I mean, the guy should have at least asked if he should wipe his ass with a copy of the constitution, and delete the links only if he got a positive answer. Oh, and he should wipe his ass with the now worthless piece of paper afterwards.
Don't hestitate. Mod me down.
I went from the link on the webpage (it's still there) to the company selling the DVD, then I ordered it. Just to support the site. Up yours Disney. BTW, the DVD is only $11.95!!! Apparently it's mono, though, which sucks.
-------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.
Great, now everybody is Kung Fu Fighting.
-rbecause you can order all the films in question off of it. I ordered Shaolin Soccer about four or five months ago and paid about 10.00 for it, and that includes shipping.
I assume that even if an individual purchased one of these movies, they would have the right to resell it? Or would Miramax get its army of lawyers to write a nasty letter to you?
If it is legal, some of these import companies would be on more legal ground to just sell them on Ebay as individuals instead of under a company name.
I kind of understand Miramax's point of view, but I have a hard time understanding how my viewing Shaolin Soccer before they release it in the US hurts anyone. The way I feel is that the actors earned money, as the DVD I purchased was a legit DVD. As long as the actors got paid, I don't care about putting any extra money in Miramax's pocket. The US release of Shaolin Soccer on DVD will probably be 15 - 20.00. I paid 10.00 and got to see it uncut but had to read subtitles.
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
There is no Drunken Master 2 release available in Europe. I do not want the changed US version. HkFlix seems to sell a good Asian version but for a rather steep price (+ transport + import tax). And maybe HKFlix will not be able to sell it much longer now?
A German importer offered it a few months ago but when I ordered it he said his Asian distributor suddenly no longer had it?!?!
Btw, there is a great Drunken Master release availabe in Europe from www.hongkonglegends.co.uk.
Hero was phenominal. I'm curious, though--i can't read mandirin, but i watched it with someone who can. At the very end of the film (no spoilers here), a screen with words and a picture of the Great Wall come up. according to my mandirin-reading friend, it basically invalidated the message of the film. He said it felt tacked on, and he thought it was there just to please the government; the message of Hero is fairly anti-government, as it is. I'm anxious to see if that scene hit the cutting room floor in the American release. Do films in China often add in things like this, to keep the government off their backs?
There are legislative attempts to change this, but Wal-Mart is opposed, so it's not likely to sneak through.
If you want either of those movies (in Mandarin), they're advertised on eBay for $7.99.
Shipping in single copies of copyrighted works from abroad for personal use is permitted. So is carrying them back in your luggage when you travel. See 17 USC 602 (a) (2), the text of which follows:
There's also exemptions for government use, scholarly, religion, and educational purposes, and for libraries. You should read all of 17 USC 602 (a) before jumping to conclusions about whether it's illegal to import videos.
Ok guys.....
I hate Miramax.
I love Quentin Tarantino.
What the *Hell* am I supposed to do when Kill Bill Volume II is released?
(whimpers)
Maybe if Miramax didn't chop up HK films there wouldn't be such a problem. I bought "Fist of Legend" on DVD after seeing the Chinese version. After watching it and seeing it wasn't the original movie I began a search. Finally I found the original for sale on E-Bay and bought it. If Miramax hadn't made changes to the orignal film I wouldn't have even bothered.
Exactly what would be the constitutional fig leaf that would empower the restriction of legally made copies?
The beanie baby example is bad because they were knockoffs whose very existance is illegal.. Overseas distributors cannot import legal copies because it violates their agreement with the copyright holder (which consumers aren't party to). However they can sell to consumers in their own countries, and accordinng to US law they lose any right in a copy after it is sold (but not new copies made from that copy IIRC).
Which is the genesis of all that region encoding nonsense: it prevents people from buying container loads of DVDs in 3rd world countries where they can only be sold for cheap, importing them to the US and selling them at a profit.
Holy crap, have I just figured out a socially useful purpose for region encoding? This allows studios to sell DVDs in third world countries near the marginal costs rather than the higher average costs.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I am curious, in New Zealand we have a law that explicitly makes it illegal to sell/buy the exclusive import rights to a product. Is there anything similar to that in the US? I believe Australia is similar.
Examples are: any can import macs and sell them. Anyone can import DVD's and sell them. Anyone can import Levi's jeans and sell them. It is for this reason that multi region mods are legal in New Zealand - it is illegal for software distributors to force consumers to use the 'authorised' importer.
The beanie baby example is bad because they were knockoffs whose very existance is illegal.
Actually, most of the instances I'd heard were not knockoffs, but were legal licensed products from overseas. Which just made it all the more galling.
It has been widely known that most lawyers for entertainment business has their heads perpetually stuck up the part of their body where sun don't shine...
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I wonder how this affects someone like scarecrow video? They have all the imported movies from hong kong. They have both hero and shaolin soccer for rent. You could rent 28 days later before it hit theaters, if you had a region free pal DVD player.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Because of the internet, it is easier to purchase items abroad then ever before. The companies need to learn this. Otherwise, You know what happens when companies "crack down" on legal overseas media products....you download them instead! There, now no one gets money, not billy working at the shipping depot or bobo packaging the dvds at some factory in china, and not the banking firms handling transactions...etc.etc...the point is it should not be legal for companies to do this anyway, it just hurts the economy!
It's just plain sad that despite never sending or receiving one, I instantly knew what C&D meant. They are so common these days.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
Exactly what would be the constitutional fig leaf that would empower the restriction of legally made copies?
Other than the fact that they were not "made under this title" (17 USC 109)? Imported copies are usually made under another country's copyright law. And the Constitutional justification for this and most of the rest of Title 17 is the Copyright Clause.
it shouldn't be hard at all to buy a copy of Drunken Master 2. It was released here in the US as "The Legend of Drunken Master."
I thought "The legend of" was supposed to be the third installment: "Max 300" on DDRMAX, "Maxx Unlimited" on DDRMAX2, "The legend of Max" on DDR Extreme.
Or am I missing something?
Apart from a translation of the title and the DVD logo, there was no English on the box. Worse, the DVD navigation menus were all in Chinese, and none of us speak a word! We had a hell of a time turning on the English subtitles for the movie itself. We just systematically went through every menu and sub-menu until we found it.
They must have either released it with no region encoding, or with US region encoding, I guess, because I had no problems.
Anyway, the movie's not bad. The tone is a bit too earnest for me. And the kung-fu is of the supernatural variety (a bit like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which I absolutely loved) which turns off some people. But overall I enjoyed it. Not nearly as much as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, though.
MM
--
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
In any case, it's obviously a contract issue
Unless all the copyright owners refuse entirely to allow such distribute-by clauses in distribution contracts.
and not anything that should be legislated like that.
There are plenty of limitations on what a contract can do, precisely because legislatures have found that a given party has way too much leverage in dictating the terms of a contract. For example, many jurisdictions do not allow complete disclaimers of warranty and liability on new goods.
Miramax has a reputation for destroying good films.
A prime example of this is "The Black Mask". The edit was terrible. More insulting was the replacement of the soundtrack with a black hiphop one that had nothing to do with the film. (Asian is non-white and so is hip-hop, so it must be OK.) The original cut was MUCH better.
I have Hero and Shaolin Soccer. I much prefer Shaolin Soccer. The message of "Hero" is that people must preserve the state, even if it kills them.
Shaolin Soccer is just FUNNY. (Stephen Chao is a genius! "God of Cookery" is another of his films. Imagine a martial arts version of the "Iron Chef".)
I have seen previews from Miramax of Shaolin Soccer. I had a hard time believing it was the same film. They tried to make it serious. (Yes, they are that clueless!)
Miramax may be legally right, but they are far from morally right.
If there is a god of film, Harvey Weinstien will burn in his hell.
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
Thats right, I forgot about that. Seems like years ago. That should be reversed. Maybe instead of a lager party, we need to organize a keger party.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Fine Miramax, we'll just boycott you!
Consider yourself boycotted...
Please review that whole 1st Amendment thing...
If he wasn't breaking any laws,
how can he get slammed with a C&D Order?
your brain
Is that the american film companies like Miramax and Disney dont want all the great asian films getting to america untouched because they show up just how bad similar american films are (for example, from what I have heard, there are anime films from japan that "out disney" some of the recent disney releases, although I personally havent seen said films)
Therefore, they bring them in and edit them to hell so that people dont see how good they realy are. Or they bring them in and have just enough screenings (with no promotion) so that they can satisfy the licence requirements and then bury it for good never to be seen again.
So, basicly, its about the american movie industry not wanting better quality foreign product to get to america since it will show up how crap the similar american stuff is.
kakak
This is the internet. you know, that big GLOBAL information network. :-)
In my country (Australia) parallel importation is legal, so his link would not be in violation of our copyright laws.
In fact, region encoding in this country is seen as anti-competitive and trade restrictive (which it is).
It is up to the individual to decide if what they are doing is legal in their particular country. I thing the Hong Kong distributor should sue Mirimax for restraint of trade!!!
Funny how the U.S wants free trade when it suits them, but when it comes to IP rights... sheesh...
Burma?
I also don't understand why you said region coding was "racist" though I also think the AC was off base. I would say region coding seems to be more about price fixing and economic control than any racism. If you look at a region coding map, you'll see it isn't drawn in racial areas.
If it were racial, US/Canada, all of Europe, Russia and Austraila would be in one group. All of Asia would be in one group. Central and South America would be in their own individual group. Yet these groups are all mixed up.
If you look at it, they seem to be divided among more economic lines.
Region 1: US/Canada - both wealthy nations
Region 2: Western Europe, Japan, the Middle East, and others - all wealthy (perhaps regions 1&2 should have been joined, but I suppose the US based organization who made the standard decided they wanted more control over their area)
Region 3: various countries - I suppose they are well off, but not as rich as 1 & 2.
Region 4: Central/South America & the Pacific - Most of these countries can be considered poor, but not the worse. I don't know why they put the Aussies in there though. Maybe they don't care about that market?
Region 5: various countries - many of these countries can be considered "third world" in the respect they are generally the poorest of all. I'm not sure if Eastern Europe and Russia would be lumped in here today (maybe region 4), but at the time DVD was created, those countries weren't doing well.
Region 6: China - They are their own beast, the government probably asked to be in their own region so they can control what can be played.