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VIA/Apex Game Console Details Leaked
DammiTT writes "It seems that Apex are releasing a new PC-based 'console', using VIA components, later this year. It'll be announced during CES on January 8th." However, HardOCP already has some initial pictures and details up on its site, for this "ApeXtreme Personal Gaming Console and DVD Player", or PGC. According to this early, unconfirmed report, it's running a 1.4Ghz VIA chipset, the CN400, and "will be powered by a near-instant-on version of WinXP (embedded) with Windows Media Player, and... will have removable media in the form of DVD/CD." It comes with "a 40GB IDE hard drive... you can play DVD movies, audio and video CDs... [and] the price points will be at US$299 and US$399."
When My graphic card alone cost that much.
I'm starting to think I'm getting ripped off from Nvidia and ATI here.
So it will boot Linux.
I have been pwned because my
I wonder if you could use this for a PVR too; Apex also makes one of those now.
Just get me one of these with a larger hard drive, and I'd be set...
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I've always been a fan of Apex, and this looks fun. Competition for the Xbox with configurable, customizable components? And support for PC games? I'm all for it. It's about time we see something that isn't proprietary.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
see a marketplace where modded X-boxes used to be? Makes me wonder....
C|N>K
Dumb question. Couldn't you pick up a full PC for that price by the time this thing comes out? Wouldn't that also give you a wider library of games?
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
One has to wonder when the completely overused and tired X will be phased out. I for one would be happier if the marketing people would find something just a tad more innovative. X is so overused - bleh!
VIA has a tendency to make the most unstable chipset.
I have owned 3 abit motherboards, 1 tyan and 1 ecs, all based on a VIA chipset. Only 1 out of 5 board could remain stable for more than a year. Yes, yes I installed the VIA-4-in-1 drivers and more or less the same OS.
If you do the math, that's 20% stability in my experience.
I noticed that the unit has a Suspend Button instead of a Power Button....
Gotta wonder what the uptime record is for Windows Empbeded....;-)
...normally around a launch, the console boys start to talk about which companies have signed on to make games. And how many games will be available at launch. So, the static with the games has me wondering, is this a slimmed down PC that will play PC titles?! Or is this a console that will play proprietary console games? Or somewhere in-between?
can it run Linux? How about is the platform any good or what is the quality of graphics?
(Just wanted to know if anyone can help me here. Can this machine run Linux?)
Couldn't they have picked a better name?
APE extreme? Makes me think of gorillas.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
This sounds like it has the ability to become the X-Box killer, for gamign systems that run like PCs.
Upgradable, running an OS (instead of a agaming OS), ability to put Linux on it. Yum. I can't wait for this to outshine PS2, GCN and Xbox.
I read Slashdot in Lynx, I am a real geek.
So uhh give me Xbox live games for the PC and I'll be happy. Oh and Dead or Alive 3. Make them all run on progressive, have dolby digital. Oh, and I want them all on my hard drive where it just lists them and I pick what I want to play. Then I'll be glad to get rid of my xbox's.
The reason it has an embedded version of Windows XP is so you can play PC games on it. This is a game console. I see no benefit of Linux on this system. If you want a cheap workstation build a cheap workstation. You could probably do it chaper and better than this box anyway.
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Anyone else think that this system looks a little like one of the 3DO systems that came out in the early/mid 90's?
... I remember when I was in Japan then, there was like 3 or 4 different models of the 3DO from different companies.
Not the first gen 3DO, but one of the later ones
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
Competition for the Xbox with configurable, customizable components?
Configurable, customizable components cause console crashes.
Consoles "just work" because the games know the exact quirks of the fixed hardware they run on. Console games don't have the incompatibilities with video cards, incompatibilities with CPU models, and even incompatibilities with optical drives that PC games tend to have.
Would the $300 "full PC" come with TV out? (A 27" VGA display sold in the United States costs much more than a 27" S-video display.) And would it come with a set of fixed hardware for which game developers can optimize rather heavily?
DVD movies...
:)
Bringing the APEX style price of region free DVD players to region free DVD capable computers for the masses
I don't know if this new "game" system is a good idea, at least not from APEX. Yes, APEX has always been hacker friendly, but APEX has a pretty bad track record in the DVD player market; I had to swap out APEX DVD players four times before I got one that worked. Coupled this with the unreliability of the VIA chipset= "Emachines" 3 years ago, i.e. crap. Ironically, now Emachines has a really good quality and good value, for about the same price as this APEX game system. Even if they bundled this new game machine with a Radeon 9800 chip built in, I would be wary of it.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
MAME CONSOLE BITCH!
Seriously, I don't think it will take very long at all before some enterprising individual or group of individuals starts homebrewing their own Mame32 CD for this baby. Think about it. It has a special version of WinXP, that means access to the Win32 API. It will also mean standardized hardware.
Something like that will make the system marketable to grandparents and uncles. People who have no interest in Max Payne or GTA VC just might want to play Burger Time or Space Invaders.
Now, we just need for the owners of the copyrights to those old games to come to the table to negotiate licensing. Even if they don't I'm sure that something like this will sping up eventually anyway.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
... As soon as I got this far.
"It will be powered by a near-instant-on version of WinXP (embedded) with Windows Media Player.."
Basically its a bog standard "Via Eden" PC with DRM and a shit name "ApeXtreme PCG" how naff! It'll probably be about as successful as the ill fated Ndrema.
Might be fun to hack, but aside from that, its nothing special.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Not very harsh, but that's the typical response. For everyone who's thought they could do better, even at an inflated price, go ahead and try. I've watched with somewhat bated breath the Freevo and MythTV projects, but they always come in more expensive and with zero WAF (wife acceptance factor). I've had several people use my TiVo with no guidance by just mashing a few logiclly positioned buttons and figuring it out on their own. The wife loves TiVo (stand alone) to the point where we're considering the DirectTivo upgrade. TiVo is more than the sum of its parts, ie cheap motherboad + 40/60GB HD + that linux operating system. And if this media hub or pvr referenced in the parent are anything like other Apex products, then forget about a good user interface. The wifes, unfortunately, sometimes have a say in the tech gear purchases.
No, linux must be installed on it! Everything is obviously better with linux... even if the device is designed for the purpose of running windows based games...
Considering that:
1- The Xbox, with all its "mighty" Microsoft DRM was made to run linux.
2- It's a PC that, according to the article, geatures a non-proprietary formatting, standard USB ports, ethernet ports and whatnot.
3- comes from a manufacturer that allows you to disable region-coding on its DVD players just by hitting a couple buttons on the remote.
4- does not have any real hopes of signing up the big game developers (especially not japaneese behemoths like SquareEnix, Capcom or Konami)
I think they definitely want their units to be hacked to death. And if they don't, they are blind, ignorant fools. I mean, this is obviously the ultimate set top box. Wireless gamepads? Please! More like wireless remotes...
You could stream media from your computer, install mythTV and record your favorite tv shows, back them up to the computer over ethernet, emulate old arcade/console games. Basically everything the Xbox can do, only more and better thanks to the increased amount of ram and cpu speed. The possibilities are too many to list.
It would be funny if I got it all wrong and this becomes the next ps2...
Chances are the boxes will be relatively easy to modify, based on the 'not locked down' comments.
... at least it seems these will eventually make it to market.
On the other hand, this sounds an awful lot like the Phantom, an XP based PC game console coming in different configurations
(Of course, I see no way for the companies involved to make money on these things. If MS loses money on the X-Box, how does a fourth party expect to sell enough units to make a profit?)
--
Use Vobbo for Video Blogs
I guess you'd blame everything on the Xbox if you had the chance. Apparently you seem to ignore that EA was doing cross-platform for years...point your finger in that direction for a more realistic argument.
Consoles are all about polygon power, more than processor. I didn't see any mention of NVidia vs. ATI vs. the rest.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
APE extreme? Makes me think of gorillas.
Yes, you'll be able to emulate Donkey Kong Country or Ape Escape on this machine, as well as watch the Planet of the Apes DVD.
Boot to Knoppix (need a hardware mod) with maybe a little something extra and us it to put a full distro on the HD and overwrite DRM.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
C'mon, a VIA processor? A SIS graphics chip? They are going to release a very underperforming system very late in the game, for very high price. Are they stupid???
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Mmmm... maybe if you want a cheap Linux workstation you should go build a cheap Linux workstation? This is clearly for games, a market Windows still excels over Linux in. Tinkering is great, but with the openness of the architecture, where's the fun in tinkering?
End of Line.
How will I run Windows Update on this machine? Does the console/DVD player need to be activated with Microsoft or Apex when I buy it?
There is no DRM. RTFA.
We are told the OS will not be "locked down", certainly inviting many modifications by the end user.
- The spec is not that great. Developments in graphics and CPU are mostly driven by the games industry (do you really need a Radeon 9600 to run Word?), and from what I've heard, all future consoles from the Big Three will have specs that make 1.4GHz look a little lame. Hell, 1.4GHz is only twice as fast as the Xbox processor. The minimum spec for next-gen consoles is an order of magnitude higher than their current ones. At 1.4GHz, it wouldn't be able to run many of today's PC games, let alone the ones to come 5 years hence (the length of the usual console lifecycle).
- "The OS will not be locked down." A critical key to the success of any console is publisher support, and publishers will not support a console that does not have reasonable copy-protection. If the OS is not locked down, then copy-protection goes out the window.
- Who? Via may be famous for their PC hardware, but that is not the same thing as knowing how to run a games console company. They'll have to work
very hard to convince publishers that they're a credible competitor for the Big Three. You could argue that Microsoft (and indeed Sony) were in the same position when they started, but I think they had enough money to throw at that problem.
As the HardOCP article suggests, this could be a kick-ass DivX box, for watching all your media on a big TV. Well, I sure hope so, because you won't be playing many games on it.An open OS also screws up the business model of all console manufacturers, which is to get royalties from licensed publishers. Why would publishers bother to get a license if anyone can write software for it?
I Agree with the Original poster the X-Box hardware is wasted on the crappy PC architecture and the fact that its games are to a certain extent "generic" PC/Win32/DirectX Code.
I would have had a lot more respect for Microsoft's console if they had completely redesigned the machine from scratch instead of butchering the existing PC architecture. The PC, or more precisely Windows has suffered and become the heap of shit that it is today because Microsoft have never wiped the slate clean and started afresh. Apple have done this several times both in their operating system and in their hardware architecture. And the result is a cleaner system. OSX is the best thing Apple ever did!
We dont need the console market being saturated with X-Box clones with varying architectures, it'll result in an inconsistent gaming experience for everyone, and cause headaches for the game developers alike. The beauty of consoles is a fixed hardware spec to work with.
Go Ahead get an X-Box... buy a second hand one, mod it, and pirate all the software. Thats my advice. Help microsoft to lose even more money on the thing!
I use gentoo for my PC needs and a PS2 for games. I like it that way and Im not mad keen on FPS's
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Yeah, if only this xbox emulator would be further in development:
t p://www.caustik.com/cxbx/screenshots.htm
http://www.caustik.com/cxbx/
Some screenshots:
http://www.caustik.com/kingofc/
ht
People have talked abou things like this for ages, now Apex is actually following through. If this were marketed as an Xbox killer, they would have done it differently. We would have had screens of usage, a pic of the controller, a little bit more name brand than VIA (ew...). I think the article had it right. Yeah, you could play games on it (and it'll be easy) and I think that if this has a strong enough place in the market, game developers will have to make it compatible if they want to sell games. But there's more to it than that. This could indeed be a killer DIVX jukebox. Just as people often buy those MP3 boxes for their stereo, this could be the same thing, plus whatever the hell other features you want without it being an actual computer, because nobody's going to keep their computer sitting above the TV. That's why it says DVD player on it, guys. It's not trying to compete with the video gaming monsters I think anybody who's putting serious money into a gaming console right now realizes that you have to put SERIOUS money in. The system wars are pretty much closed to new competitors. Just look at the little thing, it's not even menacing. It looks like a designer DVD player
Look it's a joke about my sig IN MY SIG! LOL!
With Microsoft supplying the OS, this is most definately going to fail as a console system. If it ever got popular, Microsoft would kill it off.
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
The suggestion that this could be used to play divx encoded video is very tantalizing. $300 for something that could replace my gamecube, DVD player, and the cabling/SVCDs I make would be very well worth it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I dont see the Lindows CEO stepping up on this one though hehe...
But if you could run Linux on it you would be able to run all ALL your games on it.. From the Atari to the Xbox..
I'm definately interested..
Would be nice if companies worked to create a console standard (Powerful and simple) and then made profits selling games.
Is that a trick question? Because the answer is ZERO. True geeks wouldn't worry about anyone else except themselves ;) ...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
So, whatever happened to the great vapour game machine?
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
I wouldn't worry about the Linux issues, or hardcore DRM for that matter. Both companies, VIA and Apex are not exactly know for their dogged pursuit of DRM and like technologies. Apex in particular has been slapped down abunch of times for violating DVD 'standards', anyone rememeber the region free DVDs sold everywhere?
There are a bunch of interesting things this console will bring. First is that VIA is really hot for it. They made sure to pester people to be at the press conference, something they are usually more laid back about. They are going to push this thing, trust me.
THe next thing is that I expect it more to be a 'digital convergence' box than a game console. It won't threaten the PS2 or XBox, that is for certain. If you look at the specs of the chip, it is packs a rather modest amount of horsepower, especially in the areas where 3D games need it most, FP. The GPU isn't exactly anything to make people forget about the NV40/R420 either.
What it will do is play DVDs well, most likely PVR functions, and play a lot of slightly modefied PC games more than adequately. If you take a TVs rez into acount, it should more than do the job. Overall, a lot of functionality for the money, but precious little bleeding edge.
I have two hopes for this box, first is reasonably priced games. Second, and more importantly is that VIA makes this a reference design, and Apex is the first of many to come out with a box. Others will follow, some with bigger HDs, other with better video out etc etc.
One thing for sure is that I will be at the press conference. VIA has always done some good things, and if you look at the stuff they showed me at Comdex, there are some really really cool geek toys there. They are all based on the EPIA platform which is small, fanless, and cheap, but more than powerfull enough to do most everything.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12853
All the people at VIAs show (they were next door to comdex) had really innovative things. If you are into neat devices, I recommend you keep an eye on VIA, the platforms that they spent years creating are just starting to take off. Also, FWIW, I plan to do a full write up as soon as I can after the press conference.
-Charlie
When I read about this and some of the comments, the thought suddenly came to mind that if this sells at all, Microsoft is a big winner. Why? Because you know MS is not giving the embedded Windows XP away for free and since they aren't making this thing, every sale is money in the bank for them. And the embedded XP is probably similar to what they use in the XBox, so they get a little more return on that investment.
As for VIA, this doesn't make much sense as a games console. Usually a console maker takes a loss on the console hardware itself (at least at first) and makes up the losses on game royalties. PC games don't sell anywhere near the number that console games do, plus a PC game publisher pays no royalties to anyone. As it is unlikely that the market will support another proprietary format, games are not likely going to make VIA any money.
Since VIA is in business to make money, one can only conclude that they plan to make a profit on the hardware itself. Being able to play some PC games and do PC-like things then becomes just another marketing bullet point. This is also support by the fact that the thing looks like a more or less standard DVD player. This strategy can work if they keep the manufacturing costs down and do a good job of marketing. My final guess is that this will be marketed primarily in Asia where PC penetration is low which would make a device with some PC functionality more attractive. And the you can bet that games like Starcraft and other titles wildly popular in places like South Korea and China will run on the system without a hitch.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
How do they do it? All their products are made in China.
just get a pc with tv out and a wireless keyboard,mouse and u get pretty much the same thing.
Considering that Xbox and PS? Will be shooting it out for the top tier market, and Nintendo will pretty much retain their core market from their various franchises; their could very well be a place for the Apex.
Cost of developing for any of the big three consoles is pretty much through the roof, enough to where any of the smaller publishing houses would never have a chance to develop for the current console market. This has translated into stale games overall... I own over 50 PS1 games. I own less than 10 PS2.
Given that Apex could never hope to compete with Sony head to head, they might be able to carve a niche market by having a more diverse creative pool, lower priced games, less cost of development, and being able to take more risks as far new games are concerned.
You wouldn't need tremendous hardware to do that, and since Apex already has positive cash flow from their other ventures; they can ride out building a user base.
All they need is one killer game that is unique to their system. All the other things it can do would just be icing on the cake.
This could very well be a giant killer.
... Not once but several times playing Rogue Squadron II. There is a known bug in the 'Hoth' scene that, if you happen to hit it, will lock the machine up solid.
That said, I've never seen it crash on any other game - ever.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Okay, let's think about this for a moment. You are going to try to compete in a market in which the 800 pound gorilla is competing. Do you really want to paying for that gorilla's bananas? Which is to say, it is damn foolish of them to use Windows as their OS because MS can sink their boat at a moments notice if it behooves them.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Okay, simple:
1) This baby not only has Composite and S-Video, but also COMPONENT Out!
2) Portability and suitability for the case design.
3) Pre-assembled and parts guaranteed to work with each other.
4) A single platform that can safely be written for. Because it is wide open, you could well see significant Linux development (PVR, games, etc.) without the usual PC worries over sound, gfx, or chipset drivers.
Think of all the time a company like Valve has had to spend making sure that their games work on 'X' brand's gfx card. Then there are differing generations within that company's platform!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
At $300 to $400 it is in the same price range as the 2.4Ghz, 256meg, 40GB, DVD+CD-RW compaq I am writing this on. With micronPC selling white box systems for as low as $200, it's a shame I can't get a decent price on something as small as a shuttle.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
USB jacks in front for joysticks, maybe now we can finally get Capcom to port something newer than Street Fighter Alpha 2 to the PC. Or how about a local release of the 640x480 Guilty Gear X port. Still, who in their right mind would cough up $300 for a PC in a box without Microsoft buying up developers left and right to ensure some good games?
I'm sure 'porting' games to it won't be too tough, at least until Microsoft starts changing APIs around to muck things up for them. Seriously, the only thing more nutsoid than releasing a console into a market where Nintendo is floundering is going up against Microsoft while relying on their software fer chris'sake. Apex, it was nice knowing you. Say hi to Novel for me.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
ape ( P ) Pronunciation Key (p)
n.
Any of various large, tailless Old World primates of the family Pongidae, including the chimpanzee, gorilla, gibbon, and orangutan.
A monkey.
A mimic or imitator.
Informal. A clumsy or boorish person.
extreme ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-strm)
adj.
Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field.
Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain.
Extending far beyond the norm: an extreme conservative. See Synonyms at excessive.
Of the greatest severity; drastic: took extreme measures to conserve fuel.
Sports.
Very dangerous or difficult: extreme rafting.
Participating or tending to participate in a very dangerous or difficult sport: an extreme skier.
Archaic. Final; last.
will it also include a near-instant-on BSOD?
"instant-on WinXP means it'll also crash faster than normal XP. No more need to wait annoyingly for crashes. All for an amazingly low price of 4 payments of 34.99. But call now and we will pay one payment for you. That's right, you can go from 0 to crash in less time than ever for just 3 payments of 34.99!"
They should've went with Knoppix. Hell, there's even a version of Knoppix that is made for xmame-ing.
Why did this get modded up? The author is obviously stuck thinking in their own little box.
1. So what. It will be released before the next crop of consoles from the major manufacturers. It beats current models without much effort. The C3 may not be the fastest processor in the world, but has dedicated hardware for accelerating encryption (which can be retasked for similar math operations, somewhat similiar to MMX, etc) and the graphics hardware has MPEG2 in hardware.
It is still faster than PS2, xbox and gamecube. And it will be available quite some time before the next generation of consoles arrive.
"At 1.4GHz, it wouldn't be able to run many of today's PC games"
Care to name any that won't run at the typical 800x600 max used on TV screens when using current 3D hardware?
Besides can PS2 (PSX released outside Japan yet?), xbox, gamecube do PVR functions?
2. Really? Is that why there is so many games on the PC platform? Copy restriction technologies can be seperate from the OS, and indeed this allows a publisher choice and the ability to move to newer ( fixed ) forms, when they are eventually cracked (modchips anyone). I would have thought that publishers would prefer this option?
2b business model. Yes platform licensing is the only possible way to make money from a console.
Did it ever occur to you that this is a hardware company, and that they might want to use a hardware sale business model. Which is why they will likely encourage the use of these boxes in alternative applications. (It is amazing how cheap something can be made for, if the volumes are right)
Besides technological lockin isn't the only way to enforce platform licensing. Trademark law is quite sufficent in most cases. However I would be surprised if the console games didn't use some form of public cryptography to sign the licensed games though. (Don't forget there is hardware acccelerated cryptography support on C3 1Ghz+ chips)
3. It isn't a Via console. In the same way xbox isn't a nvidia console. Apex is experienced in consumer entertainment devices, and that is all they need if they are planning on not following the traditional console business model.
4. Besides it seems that the game playing ability is being marketed as one feature of many.
However as it is PC based, with a windows OS, and therefore likely to be Direct X based. The effort required to port games from xbox or PC titles should be minimal, so if it gets a reasonable install base for PVR features, and the platform licensing, if any, is reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least a few publishers trying the platform out.
1.4 C3 is roughly equivalent to a 700Mhz PIII. Five times that is a 3.5 Ghz, which is practically available already. The original poster was unlikely talking out of his ass, but I still think his reasoning is flawed as regards the viability of the proposed Apex/VIA console.
On the other hand, some of us will pay a premium for a small, very quiet, PC. I recently built a machine using the mini-ITX board with the Via Nehemiah 1GHz chip on an EPIA motherboard and it rocks. It's not fast at all, but perfect for a MythTV frontend box for the living room and it fits in a tiny case. Now all I need to do is build a homebrew IR receiver and I can get the big desktop-sized coolermaster case out of my living room (even though it's nearly silent as well.. takes up too much space and the Athlon XP 2400+ generates too much heat).
It's a computer which fits in your normal stereo rack. Why wouldn't linux be good for it. Video, music, emu, photos and whatever. Why would I want a clumsy desktop computer when this thing actully looks quite good. It's as good bet as the MSI one.
MSI mega pc
But I guess thats like saying Quake 3 beat Duke Nukem Forever to the punch.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Looks like they're trying to bring back the Nuon. The Nuon played DVD's, CD, and games. An SDK was released and a few homebrew apps have been released for it, too. Maybe this has a better chance of survival than the Nuon did, but it'll be an uphill battle. The guys at VMLabs learned the hard way that consumers and developers both hate machines that aren't quite PCs and aren't quite consoles.
D
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This is a great product idea. It is desirable whether or not it ever gets outside publisher support.
1. Its not priced as a loss leader, so VIA/Apex can make $ off the hardware.
2. It doesn't bondage the consumer with restrictive wrappings, so you can run linux, mame, internet communication tools, custom media players, and PC games.
3. The processor/graphics chip is actually good enough to run most existing games (low rez), and is even suited to run dx9 games better than existing low end ATI/nvidia cards (on paper anyway). I'd imagine the marketing format will be to offer dual PC/Apex games in one box. Maybe there might not even be any license fees to make games for it! Or publishers would pay a small fee to have a standard "Works with Apex" sticker on their PC game's packaging.
The only weak link is that most PC and console games are suited to highly contrasting controllers.
If you bothered to read the article it says that the OS will NOT be locked down and the 40 GB harddrive is not a proprietary format (like TIVO's was)
It is a Via Eden PC with XP embedded preloaded.
If it had a PCI slot it'd be just what I needed to make a nice MythTV box. (still could be a frontend box if they bother with a NIC in it)
In my household, I see this being used more for a cheap media jukebox for playing DivX, MP3, OGG, or XviD than anything else. The other main use I would have for it would be as an emulation machine - MAME, Atari800Win, Stella, JNES, WinUAE, STeem, WinSTon, and VisualBoy Advance to name a few. You can find most of those for a modified XBox, but it is a hassle since they would have been created with an XBox Developers Kit and so couldn't be distibuted except through unofficial means. For the latest and greatest FPS a pc would be the logical choice, but for emulation and older games that do not require a fast 3D video card this box would be a good alternative. I could build a similar spec PC for about the same cost of this or less but I like the small form factor and the fact I don't have to spend my time building it.
You could probably do it chaper and better than this box anyway.
Cheaper, yes. Better? Depends on your requirements.
For example, the cheap boxes I've put together are noisy, big, ugly, and don't have much in terms of multimedia capabilities, which is fine with me for what I want the boxes for. This thing is built from the ground up to be part of a home entertainment system. Of course you could put together somethign that was as quiet, had the video output and DVD capabilities, and maybe even looked as nice, but by the time you got through with it it could hardly be much cheaper even counting your time as free.
I can see this box as a basis for people building Linux based PVRs or MP3 jukeboxes.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Not a cheape Linux workstation, you could save some money and buy other similar boxes (save the component and s-video out) that do more or less the same thing. This thing could be a huge winner for Apex if they'd just do two things: 1. Include software to make this thing a Tivo like device (DVR/PVR) 2. Include a DVD burner to and make it so you can burn the recorded TV content to DVD. If it did those things I'd probably pay $500 for it, it would be worth it for people with HDTVs
Of course, you could just buy a Tivo box for less, and even with the lifetime subscription, probably end up cheaper once you are all said and done, and still be running linux.
Cost is not a big deal for me and I find the Tivos to be frustratingly limited. The system I will be replacing had dual tuners w/software encoding to DivX and 400GB of space and I've outgrown it. The new system will include a seperate back end file server w/600GB RAID-5 file system for show storage and dual Hauppauge PVR-250 tuners for encoding to mpeg-2. That will allow me to take advantage of the EPIA's built in hardware mpeg-2 decoding support (although the 1GHz Nehemiah is more than adequate for decoding my DivX recordings using software). I'd prefer to switch to mpeg-2 to make archiving to DVD-R's easier so I don't have to transcode from DivX (mpeg-4) to mpeg-2 before I burn a DVD of the shows.
Anyway, as you can see, my needs are a little outside the scope of a normal Tivo box with a single tuner since they don't allow you to offload shows to a file server or burn them to DVD-R without hacks. Don't even get me started on the DirecTivo toys with 35 hours of recording time and no ethernet! :-/ The ONLY one that caught my eye was the Pioneer unit that had a built in DVD-R burner, but even then it doesn't let you create a skiplist to cut out commercials before archiving to DVD and it only has a single tuner. Dual tuners is an absolute necessity in my house since we have a bunch of shows on different channels that are all on at the same time slot.
You can disagree and not be disagreeable, but apparently that's not your... Uh. Style.
I'm not going to call your post 'dumb', but we certainly have a difference of perspective and opinion.
We'll have to wait and see about the video quality won't we? Last I checked, Apex has never used Via components before (unless you know otherwise). Via's Epia quality is excellent. I should know - I've installed at least 6 of the Nehemiah-based Epia's here where I work. Simply beautiful design. Perhaps this is the very reason why both companies decided to work together on this project.
As to the physical design, my point was that it is designed as an entertainment component rather than your average beige box. Sure, you can get a small form factor machine but the cases alone are very expensive for what you get IMHO.
I'm *not* assuming about the "wide open" part. If you read the article you would have noticed that this is being marketed as being hackable.
Where Valve is concerned, well EVERY video game manufacturer deals with card/gfx manufacturer issues. When you're as big as Valve you can expect companies to design their chips and drivers around your game - to an extent. But what about the old cards still floating around? Only a small percentage of people out there are going to actually run out and buy a new gfx card just to play a certain game.
Example: Valve spent months trying to get decent framerates on GeForce FX hardware because of their poor pixel shader implemementation. Gee, why'd they do that? Why didn't they just 'let it go' at 20 FPS? Because they knew quite a few customers out there have this series of cards.
And what's with this assertion that DeltaChrome is 'shitty'? For what purpose? I've seen the test results, and it's certainly no Radeon 9800XT, but consider that you'll be dealing with lower resolutions on TV. Even on 480i HDTV. So then, the difference becomes running Quake III at 400+ FPS on some top of the line card or around 80-100 FPS on the S3. Wow. Funny, I didn't notice the difference either.
How about thinking things through before YOU post next time?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Microsoft started their project knowing that they were going to lose money on each console sale, and only make it back on games. Their own model didn't have them making a profit for 3-4 years, and that was with much better sales than they've been realizing. They had billions of dollars of cash they were willing to sink into it, just to get a foothold in the console market. They spent like $450 million on advertising the first year alone. How exactly is apex and via supposed to compete with that, particularly if lots of their customers buy the box as a HW project? They're basically trying to build some soupped up version of the xbox (PC hardware in a nice box with really small WinXP type OS). Does anyone really think they can beat M$ at their own game? (i.e. a game that 1) microsoft made up in the first place, and 2) can't even win themselves?)
This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
Even better - get a PSX to USB adapter, buy a pair of Dual Shocks, and play on your PC. Good controller for SNES emulation, obviously the best for PSX emulation, and comparable to the "fit" of the Xbox controller for everything else.
-insert a witty something-
Died 8 months after I bought it ( http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2828 4 ). The picture quality was crap, the construction was cheap and crappy. I bought an Apex something-or-other for my brother for Xmas last year, and it's now dead (got him a LiteOn LVD-2001 for this christmas). 2/2. I've got 0 interest in buying another Apex product.
Next time you go to Las Vegas, mind that a lot of modern slot machines run Windows XP these days.
n it y/experto/aug2002/bally.asp
;)
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Embedded/commu
I also believe these are networked.
Happy hacking!
--- Eat my sig.
in the 80's I had an opportunity by into 'X' at about a buck a share. INstead I went with 'Q', what was I thinking?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
A game console? It's an almost off-the-shelf, less than a PC, More than a DVR, Media Player. It's like the Nokia nGage, it's a Nokia phone with only propietary MMC's. Computer to consoles failures: - Commodore 64GS (Commodore 64) - Amiga CD32 (Amiga 500 + CD) - Apple/Bandai Pippin (PowerMac 66) - Atari XE Game System (Atari 8 bit) Successful computer to console: - Let's say that the Atari 5200 is an Atari 400 with some slight modifications... (I got a lot of info from darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com )
Although Kyle did a good job, there's also some more details on ExtremeTech, and on the Ziff-Davis CES report site here.