Cyber X Gaming Championships Degenerate To Disaster

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Cyber X Gaming Championships Degenerate To Disaster

Posted by simoniker on Monday January 12, 2004 @08:11AM from the litany-of-problems dept.

Thanks to gotFrag for their article summing up the problems at this weekend's Cyber X Gaming Championships in Las Vegas. The prize-festooned pro gaming event ended up degenerating into "an epic Greek tragedy", according to gotFrag, with "a lack of tournament preparation... no tournament schedule for every game except Warcraft III... and an understaffing at the event." Even after volunteers stepped in to ameliorate the chaos, the Counter-Strike tournament became uncompletable when "the limited amount of bandwidth at the event was unable to support the required number of Steam sessions." The tournament unceremoniously ended when "Power was turned off in all the outlets in the main area... [and] the entire event came to a screeching halt, including all ongoing games", and the majority of tournaments ended unfinished. Blue's News also has an article linking to several accounts of the problems.

58 comments

Amazing. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 08:16 · Score: 1, Interesting

"the limited amount of bandwidth at the event was unable to support the required number of Steam sessions."

Wow. Tell me again why product activation is a good idea? Who's ever going to want to host a large Counterstrike lan party again if simply trying to run the game causes such horrific problems?
1. Re:Amazing. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 08:54 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  " Who's ever going to want to host a large Counterstrike lan party again if simply trying to run the game causes such horrific problems?"
  
  People that know what they're doing, I'd assume.
  A few weeks ago there was the CPL, easily twice as many CS players, lots more if you coun't the BYOC. CPL had no problems with steam, and everything ran smoothly. All you need to do is plan properly, maybe even plan your event so that valves top employees won't be busy at CES.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
2. Re:Amazing. by Mike+Hawk · 2004-01-12 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  maybe even plan your event so that valves top employees won't be busy at CES.
  
  After I have purchased software, why should it matter where the employees of the software company are? I paid for it. Its a good thing I don't have to keep track of everyone involved with id, Nerve, Grey Matter, Splash Damage and Activision everytime I want to play a game of Wolfenstein: ET. Hell, that game was free. Wait, wasn't CS free once upon a time? With Steam et al, I can't think of a game that is less free (speech or beer) right now.
  
  Hey troll, the way you defend Steam up and down this thread, you wouldn't happen to be a Valve employee, would you? I can't think of anyone else who would care enough to defend the POS that is Steam.
3. Re:Amazing. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 10:30 · Score: 0
  
  Yeh, too right, if enough people complain maybe we can ditch all these online activation systems. That way piracy can hopefully put all these capitalist pig companies out of business and make room for more righteous open source games. One day StarTrek's vision of eutopia will come true and we will do away with money entirely and just make games for the pure joy of it.
  
  Now if only I could get this broken old washing machine replaced for free. I mean, when I bought it I assumed I would get my knickers cleaned for all eternity!
  
  p.s. i'm being sarcastic u donut !!!
4. Re:Amazing. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  No, I just read gotFrag often and am tired of these kiddies bashing steam for things that arn't its problem.
  Steam has plenty of problems, but you shouldn't blame everything on it.
  
  CS has always been a free mod, and still is. There was only one point when it wasn't, and that was during steams beta test (when anyone that wanted to could sign up for a steam account and play cs without a cdkey of any kind)
  
  As a user, you don't have to keep track of valve at all. But if you're going to give away $300,000+ in cash and prizes, it might help to get your shit together.
  
  People also don't realise that WON was going down anyways, its Sierra's network, not valves (see `whois won.net`). Valve was nice enough to offer us steam and many new updates(Jan 14th will bring a huge update fixing bugs in the money system), and still supporting such an old game.
  If you don't like it, delete halflife and reinstall off of your cd. Don't update, because you didn't buy updates, you bought whats on the cd.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
5. Re:Amazing. by Mike+Hawk · 2004-01-12 10:48 · Score: 0
  
  If you don't like it, delete halflife and reinstall off of your cd. Don't update, because you didn't buy updates, you bought whats on the cd.
  
  You are half right in your conclusions troll. I have long since uninstalled the programs, pretty much as soon as I heard their plans for Steam. So about that part you are correct.
  
  You are wrong in that I am owed the updates. The product was not bug free when it was shipped. I am still waiting for numerous bug fixes, well I was waiting for them until Steam came to light. I am sorry that your personal expectations are lowered so far that you don't feel the same way. I am more sorry that many in the Half-life community have had their expectations similarly lowered.
  
  So if I dont have Steam on any of my PC's why do I care? 4 friends of mine were in the CoD competition and am sad that they got screwed by Valve's system. That's all.
6. Re:Amazing. by Mike+Hawk · 2004-01-12 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  Scanning previous post for mentions of "online activation systems": No matches found. Your post was a total waste of bandwidth, you failed to address a single one of the actual points I made, thanks for playing.
7. Re:Amazing. by fireduck · 2004-01-12 11:05 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  So if I dont have Steam on any of my PC's why do I care? 4 friends of mine were in the CoD competition and am sad that they got screwed by Valve's system. That's all.
  
  how exactly did Steam ruin the CoD tournament, seeing as how Call of Duty was developed by Infinity Ward (i.e., not Valve) and does not use Steam?
  
  Ripping on Steam for a failing of the tournament organizers is extremely shortsighted. A power outage can take out a whole event, sure. But certainly not an online service used by only 1 of the many games being played at the event.
8. Re:Amazing. by Mike+Hawk · 2004-01-12 11:35 · Score: 1
  
  Someone responded to your other post below about this. It robbed bandwidth for everyone in attendance shutting down the entire event. I don't know how familiar you are with computers, but in layman's terms...the stuff on the screen wouldn't look right and the dudes couldn't hit stuff. Now, I guess they could have just shut down the CS part of the tournament, which is what eventually happened, but that still leaves the question...why are you so quick to apologize for Valve's decisions? If CS were not part of the equation, we would not be having this discussion.
9. Re:Amazing. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 15:19 · Score: 1
  
  Ask any of them about the Chris Hill asking for a CoD disk to install on tourney machines. Its really not steams fault, they could of had the competition sans network (minus any form of spectating and broadcasting, not sure if CoD has that yet but cs normally has HLTV and a shoutcast with commentators).
  
  You arn't owed any bug fixes legally, morally sure, but not legally. You buy whats on the disk and thats what you own, just like buying MS Word 5 doesn't warrant a copy of Office 2k3. HL is and always was full of bugs, but thats why a lot of people just clan so if someone does exploit them, thats their reputation and their clan.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
10. Re:Amazing. by bigman2003 · 2004-01-12 16:20 · Score: 1
  
  Okay- maybe I am a moron...or I simply don't understand the setup they had there.
  
  It seems like the Valve/Steam stuff had to use the Internet to get out, and download the Counterstrike stuff.
  
  But couldn't the other games just use internal networks, not attached to the outside, and their own servers?
  
  A few times at work we've used our development servers (completeley isolated from the rest of the world) to run Americas Army games. No cheaters!
  
  --
  No reason to lie.
11. Re:Amazing. by jayhawk88 · 2004-01-12 16:34 · Score: 1
  
  Someone who has a different opinion than yours is not automatically a troll, asshat.
  
  And you can still get your HL updates sans steam, via someplace like FilePlanet if nothing else.
12. Re:Amazing. by dave1212 · 2004-01-12 18:45 · Score: 1
  
  That may be true, but they were most likely running the LAN (non-steam) version if they had no problems with that many players.
13. Re:Amazing. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-13 06:39 · Score: 0
  
  Mike Hawk didn't call anyone a troll. Check the user name on the post he was responding to.
Steam strikes again by alyandon · 2004-01-12 08:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

"the limited amount of bandwidth at the event was unable to support the required number of Steam sessions."

Many people predicted that this very thing would become and issue and now we have seen it come to pass. So what is the solution now for tournaments? Rent a T3 for an external internet connection when a T1 used to suffice!?!?!? You can kiss low budget HL-based game tournaments goodbye until this problem is addressed.

gg Valve
1. Re:Steam strikes again by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 08:49 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Buy the lan center edition of Steam? Download a full cache to one machine and mirror it across the entire network? how about INSTALLING STEAM BEFORE EVERYONE GETS THERE?
  This wasn't in any way valves fault, cXg should of planned ahead, theres been an update every wednesday for months now, and they act as if it was some big suprise. Next time plan ahead and get everything installed and working, instead of getting up on the loud speaker asking for a Call of Duty cd because they don't even have it installed.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
2. Re:Steam strikes again by n.wegner · 2004-01-12 09:30 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  If you're running an in-house tournament, why not just run a few steam servers on the 10/100 ethernet network you already have? Better yet, you can leave that for gaming bandwidth and just press some 20c cds with the latest drivers, patches, etc. and pass them around.
3. Re:Steam strikes again by rhakka · 2004-01-12 10:48 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  do your Low Budget HL based game tournaments usually have 80 teams of players trying to d/l at the same time?
  
  If they tried to run a LAN of this size without an ISP sponsor, they fucked up hard.
4. Re:Steam strikes again by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 13:18 · Score: 0
  
  You could even set up an in-house Bittorrent - could be interesting to see how well it works on a fast, local network...
5. Re:Steam strikes again by SavannahLion · 2004-01-12 16:27 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  "why not just run a few steam servers on the 10/100 ethernet network you already have?"
  Simply because Valve hasn't released any Steam servers for us to publicly use.
6. Re:Steam strikes again by rsmith-mac · 2004-01-13 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  Buy the lan center edition of Steam?
  
  Woah woah woah, wait a second here. Buy a special version from Valve? I don't know about you, but I have serious problems with that. Why should one have to pay Valve in order to use their game offline(in a condition that used to be free no less)? Unless the game is internet-based in nature(MMORPGs), there is no reason one should need(to buy) any additional software to play it offline.
7. Re:Steam strikes again by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-13 15:48 · Score: 1
  
  "Why should one have to pay Valve in order to use their game offline"
  
  Because you make serious amounts of money off of it?
  This isn't for mom and dads all night cs party, its for places that charge hourly rates of playing, or for places that charge large entrance fees(lan competitions).
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
Times like this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 08:21 · Score: 0

It's times like this that you sure can be glad you brought a real meat-axe to the competition.
1. Re:Times like this by samsmithnz · 2004-01-12 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Except that it sounds like bandwidth was the problem, not CPU power. So your big meataxe would have been exactly just that.
The first time I read this: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 08:48 · Score: 5, Funny

an epic GEEK tragedy
1. Re:The first time I read this: by Cruel+Angel · 2004-01-12 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Until I read your post, I thought it did say GEEK tragedy
  
  --
  Two Rules For Success:
  1) Never tell people everything you know.
2. Re:The first time I read this: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 11:12 · Score: 0
  
  Until I read your post, I didn't care.
  
  ...oh wait, I still don't care.
3. Re:The first time I read this: by Ayaress · 2004-01-13 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  I thought that too. It'd be more appropriate, too. I mean, it's hardly a GReek tragedy - nobody dies, no kindoms fall, nobody marries their mother.
Too big too fast? by samsmithnz · 2004-01-12 08:50 · Score: 1

This article shows that demand is definetly outstripping supply... big time. My guess is that we'll shortly start seeing events sponsered and run by large companies with the large cash flow and organisation skills required...
Valve and Steam by xTown · 2004-01-12 09:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

According to the Inquirer, Valve released a patch in the middle of the event, and BAM! You can kiss all that bandwidth goodbye.
1. Re:Valve and Steam by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 09:04 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Because the Inquirer is filled with vast gaming knowledge. The update was released on wednesday, like they have been for the past... 5 or so months now. cXg just never connected the gaming machines to the internet until the day of the event(friday) causing them all to have to pull the patch then.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
2. Re:Valve and Steam by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 09:09 · Score: 0
  
  http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=news - I should of included this link in that reply.
3. Re:Valve and Steam by xTown · 2004-01-12 10:47 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I think you're ignoring the fact that if the patch had been available outside of Steam, there wouldn't have been a problem. Sure, okay, the cXg people should have set up a lot earlier. I can see your point. But under the old system, they could have generated a few dozen CDs with the patch on and updated each machine as needed, without flooding their connection. Steam is a solution in search of a problem; it fixes something that wasn't broken.
4. Re:Valve and Steam by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 12:16 · Score: 0
  
  I should of included this link in that reply.
  
  Should've == SHOULD HAVE
  
  Dumbass.
5. Re:Valve and Steam by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 15:13 · Score: 1
  
  C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\counter-strike.gcf
  could easily be put on a cd, or SMB share, or whatever. Update one machine, mirror it to the rest. They really should of just ghosted an installed tourney machine to other machines, rather than running around with the same disk everywhere on the day of the tourney.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
6. Re:Valve and Steam by himitsu · 2004-01-13 13:51 · Score: 1
  
  wow, just wow. dont try to be helpful around here, the anonymous people might hate you.
How can this happen... by Eluding+Reality · 2004-01-12 09:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

... when they have this list of sponsors?

Cashflow shouldn't have been a problem, so they should have been able to get a decent setup, staff etc, bet those sponsors are gonna be pissed anyway
1. Re:How can this happen... by SuperMo0 · 2004-01-12 10:50 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Because they had to set aside money for all of these prizes.
Yup by DrunkBastard · 2004-01-12 09:01 · Score: 0, Redundant

That's why y'all should play Quake3, and you wouldn't have these problems.
1. Re:Yup by waaka! · 2004-01-12 09:14 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  The Q3 tournament at CXG was cancelled too, you know. (The only tournament that actually finished besides WC3 was Unreal Tournament 2K3.)
2. Re:Yup by iannn · 2004-01-16 20:01 · Score: 1
  
  where cancelled means they pulled the plug on the server rack in the middle of the losers bracket final games, so the first 3 places were tied.
Pong by AtariAmarok · 2004-01-12 09:07 · Score: 4, Funny

Same goes if you all played Pong. You would not have these problems with that game, either.

--
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Articles about CXG by waaka! · 2004-01-12 09:12 · Score: 3, Informative

ESReality has a bunch of articles about CXG--not only commenting on how it degenerated into disaster, but also concerning how the tournaments were progressing up until the plug was pulled. Interesting reading, even if you don't know all the big names in the various games who attended the tournaments.
The *real reason* by fluor2 · 2004-01-12 09:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

Source: http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news

"For about 4 hours Thursday night, Steam service was interrupted. After that time, service continued to be slow until about 11:00 am PST today (Friday). These problems were caused by device failure on our network following a power outage. [...]"

This power outage caused the main login-server to go off-line, thus nobody could authenticate to Steam. We all thought the loginserver was DoS'ed, but it turns out that they actually had a power-outage. Single-point-of-failure, eh, Valve?

Anyways, Valve SHOULD have released a LAN-only option for Steam. I cannot believe that they trust the internet for big compos like this.

As for now, I would like to say that any organizers that require Steam for their compos, should really consider downloading a hacked version of Steam that make LAN possible. It is available.
1. Re:The *real reason* by simoniker · 2004-01-12 10:12 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I know this post is getting modded up, but the gotFrag report says:
  
  "By 8AM PST on Saturday, all of the goals set at 1:30AM late the previous night were accomplished... As the first Counter-Strike teams were called in and began to set-up, things were working smoothly. As more players filtered in, a problem with running Steam became more and more apparent."
  
  So sounds like the biggest Steam problems came after this outage was fixed?
2. Re:The *real reason* by fireduck · 2004-01-12 10:20 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  regardless of whether steam was or wasn't a problem (or even should have been a problem given the suggestions of other posters in this topic):
  
  How in the world does Steam affect tournaments for all of the other non-steam games (q3, CoD, RtCW, ET, AA). One fubared game should not take down the rest of the event...
  
  From what I've read in the various linked articles, this event was run about as poorly as possible. brackets weren't even established for most of the tournaments and that's somehow to be blamed on steam?
3. Re:The *real reason* by Black+Hitler · 2004-01-12 10:22 · Score: 1
  
  Anyways, Valve SHOULD have released a LAN-only option for Steam.
  Valve has said they'll be doing this, but not until after HL2 comes out (for some reason).
4. Re:The *real reason* by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2004-01-12 10:28 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Everything in gaming is now blamed on steam.
  my fps is bad, steam sucks.
  my ping is high, steam sucks.
  my aim is bad, steam sucks.
  my arm hurts, steam sucks.
  
  --
  Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
5. Re:The *real reason* by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 10:52 · Score: 0
  
  How in the world does Steam affect tournaments for all of the other non-steam games (q3, CoD, RtCW, ET, AA). One fubared game should not take down the rest of the event...
  
  It does if all of your bandwidth is tied up by computers downloading the patch.
6. Re:The *real reason* by fireduck · 2004-01-12 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  It does if all of your bandwidth is tied up by computers downloading the patch.
  
  And at that point isn't it just slightly the duty of the event organizers to step in and call off CS and let the other events proceed? Of course, doing that would actually take leadership, something that apparently wasn't displayed...
Lots of rumors and speculation... by JExtine · 2004-01-12 13:55 · Score: 1

Seems like a lot of stuff I've read on this is fairly speculative or second hand information. Steam was having problems on one of the days, but didn't release an update mid-tourney. They release updates on Wednsdays, and cXg should have had everything up to date before hand. There are some other rumors floating around, such as there being no security and $100,000 worth of stuff being jacked. Apparently thats mostly BS with them only losing a few items.
The cXg organizers just f'ed up hardcore though, seems horribly organized for whatever reasons...
Steam's problems are the least of Valve's idiocy by IntergalacticWalrus · 2004-01-12 15:05 · Score: 1, Flamebait

As much as I liked the original Half-Life, I sure am not buying Half-Life 2 when it'll come out. Valve has proven themselves to be total dickheads over the past year, with that piece of shit Steam, their complete refusal of porting their games to Mac and Linux, and the fact that Gabe Newell got HL2's code leaked because he's too fucking stupid to use a more secure email client than outlook express. Valve, please get a clue.
Re:Steam's problems are the least of Valve's idioc by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-12 16:42 · Score: 0

Wow, you're dumb.
Undisclosed advents at CXG. by aldridge · 2004-01-12 17:30 · Score: 2, Informative

I was going to go to CXG but due to a lack of planning on my end I could not make it there. Personally being involved in the cs gaming community and knowing some of the CXG staff members personally as well as some attendees there are a number of events that gotfrag either didn't know about or didn't want to post about. Everyone has been talking about bandwidth issues. Yes in fact it was planed to have a T3 for the event, delay after delay they instead ended up getting a business dsl line. Somehow this was just enough to support 20 players at the same time logged in. Valve's power outage didn't help the situation. One of the attendees pointed out to myself that recon getting up on stage asking for a COD cd so they can install a dedicated server shows just how well planned this advent was. All in all after the fact it turns out that Valve has a "LAN" specific version of cs 1.6 (for cyber cafes without internet and LAN parties) that doesn't use their steam technology, but no at CXG had known about this before the event or they just deemed it to be a non issue. The event had been in the planning for almost 2 years seeing as how different cs 1.5 and 1.6 are they might have not planed for this originally. GBL (Game Broadcasting Live www.GBLeSports.com) were the official radio broadcasters to cover all the CXG action. In fact because of the low amount of CXG staff that showed up they helped run the networking cables and setting up tables. There was a huge meeting at CXG early Saturday as gotfrag pointed out. Every single event sponsor was trying to do what ever they could to salvage this event. Looks like they weren't successful. In regards to cash flow problems. Believe it or not CXG even with all those sponsors were unable to pay (or at least as of this date) qualifier money to some of the teams. This is also apart of why only half the amount of teams they expected to show up did (transportation isn't free). I believe that this event has and will hurt the Counter-Strike community.
1. Re:Undisclosed advents at CXG. by SolarCurve · 2004-01-13 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  This will definately hurt the pro-gaming scene, and it really sucks. My team was going to attend, but we got bad vibes, and heard too many rumors. I was not suprised when all this went down. There were at least 8 tournaments scheduled for this event. Only 2 were completed. So don't flame valve. Warcraft3, and ut2k3 were the only events to be completed. rtcw, america's army, call of duty, and more were not completed, and some never were even started. This was not about Valve, because as someone else pointed out, the CPL had a perfect event using Steam, and there is a lan center program for events that don't have internet. cxg decided to wing their event, and did not research or plan anything out. They had their competitors running the cables, and building sponsor booths! They didn't bother to bring install cd's for the games they were hosting tournaments for. For now, TAU(my team) will only play at CPL, and WCG. Sad day for esports. :(