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Microsoft Unhappy With HP's iTunes Decision
rbrandis writes "The general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products. In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said, 'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'"
Microsoft not happy that people take advantage of their own non-Microsoft monopolies!
Why don't they sue Apple ? Hell, iTunes is bundled with OS X! Because they'll bundle a music store with media player soon enough... and try to kill iTunes completely.
If HP/Apple can get iPods to chat with HP Windows boxen, can we get them to talk to Linux as well? Has this already been done?
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
Crap Microsoft, Crap indeed. You are now lying through your... well, backside. MS = Choice my arse.
Microsoft is ALL about cornering you into using MS products...
PRIME example is their damn Movie Maker 2... quite nice program to use (I haven't used iMovie, so I can't compare), but then try and save... "Hmmm, I'd like to save to an open format that pretty much anyone can play... VCD or SVCD, or perhaps just plain MPEG would be nice." "Hmmm, I seem to ONLY be able to save to MS formats unless I have a few gig free to save out to a straight DV dump and then use someone else's program to convert to a more user friendly format, so really I'm forcing anyone who wants to watch movies I've made to have an MS compatible player"
"Hmmm, MS can blow me, and blow me hard"
Yes, it is an old example, and yes, it is simplistic-- but it is still very relevant: Betamax vs. VHS.
Sony had a superior quality format for videotape (betamax), but wouldn't share with anyone. Meanwhile, Panasonic, Philips, and others all got together and agreed on VHS format. Competition brought lower priced machines, and eventually VHS killed betamax for home use.
Microsoft is half-right: it is about choice-- but it must ALL be available for choice: the hardware, the OS, the apps, the data format. Only true, open standards under a GPL, LGPL, or other similar "free to evolve independent of any single vendor"-type license will work in the long run.
davejenkins.com |
Its great that users have even more of a choice with HP getting involved with iPod - heck, it may even push the price down. And the alternative is to use a Dell player and MS s/ware? Pfff ... that's not a choice.
The point on interoperability is so true: Apple started to bridge the divide - in online music at least - with iPod/iTunes for Windows. Now HP are going to help bridge this further (and make $$'s from it of course).
So just how many brownie points did Dell earn with the "we love the MS monopoly"?
Is there anything preventing other companies from making an mp3 player that would play iTMS files? I realize that other companies can make players that play the AAC format, but is Apple preventing them from accessing the DRM?
I seem to me that any program that takes over your computer when used, and opens up browsers and pop-up windows should be called a virus.
If you can't beat 'em, FUD 'em.
Remember, kiddies, that Microsoft is never about competing. Otherwise, they'd still be working on IE for Mac OS X, instead of complaining that another browser beat them.
Take your toys and go home, I say. We don't want you here.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
Thats one reason why I dont have an Ipod now is the lack of WMA support. My Creative MP3 player will play pretty much anything I tell it too.. Including microsofts limited wma files.
Once apple gains a foot hold more or less it will be better for the consumer
If I had a choice of 10 crappy products or one good product on the market I'd take the 1 good product
Over time we will see the industry decide what will be used as a standard for the distribution of digital audio, I guess Dell and friends just don't want the "industry standard" to turn out to be MPEG-4/AAC.
This is why the press has to learn not to ever interview MS employees. Their answers are completely retarded 90% of the time, no matter how high up the ladder they are.
Didn't they ask Bill Gates what was the future of PCs in the mid 90s and he failed to mention the internet. iPod might be overrated, but Microsoft is really really overrated.
I don't think MS is b*tching because it has anything to do with choice or their own music service as that will surely just be another thing for them to waste money in as have all their other projects that provide no real profit...
No I think this is MS looking ahead to DRM and their next OS platform...will it still be adopted as the RIAA hopes if there are other more "standard" systems out there not under their control? Suddenly people will realize they don't need to buy an entire new OS/platform to be DRM compliant...they are worried iTunes will become a standard...something that will prevent them from force feeding us their own standard in their next OS.
I think you're right. According to Carly,
;^D than Dell's CEO, they're willing to go against "industry standards", namely anything Microsoft tries to cram down thier throats, and give customers what they want.
"The next big thing isn't the next gizmo or killer app or hot box. Customers want all this to work together and they want a seamless approach. We're very much going to make sure that the Microsoft and Apple worlds work together. That's part of the power we bring to this thing."
meaning HP is treating Microsoft as just another supplier, where Dell can't.
So, IMHO, because HPs CEO has more balls
Yay competition!
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Also, it appears that Real Networks is switching to AAC.
Although I'm having trouble figuring out whether they'll work with the iTunes DRM. Anyone know? Clearly, if they don't now, newer models will (since there's lots of software that is compatible with the iTunes DRM, so it would just be a matter of time).
"We are going to produce a patch that should be up within a week," said Microsoft's David Fester, group product manager for Internet Explorer. "We'll put up that patch as quick as we can."
Internet Explorer Bug Makes a Return Visit
In 1998 he was the management flunky most directly responsible for all those MSIE bugs.
"On the one hand, they say they're pursuing standards, but they're implementing and pushing proprietary technology with their development community," Microsoft product manager David Fester said. "Microsoft has pledged 100 percent standards support for some time. The truth is in the pudding and the products."
Pot, Kettle Black (netscape, microsoft , standards, name-calling)
Wednesday's Windows Media announcements are specific to XP, said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows Digital Media division. "These are companies that are doing things specifically around XP," he said. "As you know, our Windows Media effort is broader than just XP."
Windows Media announced for MAC/Linux/Solaris (not)
"This is unprecedented, but we realized we need to work together [with Netscape] for the common good. We decided we should not propose separate standards for privacy software." David Fester, Microsoft, June 97
More Outright Lies from David Fester
Tell me again why I want to listen to *anything* this man has to say.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
could someone please explain why microsoft is generally anti-choice?
Because they cram their OS down the throats of computer sellers. It is not easy to buy a desktop without MS installed, nearly impossible to buy a laptop without MS installed.
Because they cram all of Office down your throat when all you want is MS Word.
windows is built to give people the opportunity to choose whatever they want to do.
What if I want to uninstall Internet Explorer?
look at windows media player - it plays EVERYTHING.
It plays stuff so long as it doesn't run into DRM issues.
apple on the other hand forces people to do certain things
Apple has the same problems MS has. The issue is that there are other choices than MS and Apple. Choices that give you REAL freedom.
"Industry standard choices" means WMA, WMV, MPEG-2, MPEG-4.
Non-industry standards are Vorbis, FLAC, among others.
Well, either Vorbis is a standard because it's an effective and open standard, or you're talking about "Industry Standard" in terms of what gets most popularly used, which is, I assume, what you mean.
Welcome to Apple's plan: AAC will be an industry standard by that measure very soon. Especially if they keep having sponsired song giveaways on iTMS. Industry standards can (and will) change.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
This come from the Iraqi information minister? The Windows people are just shitting their pants because this will mean HP will beat them to market, they will have cooler designs and a better infrastructure in place when the battle for music dominance begins. This is a wedge into their tight little monopoly and they are freaking out. I am sure Apple will find a way to screw this up though.
This is 1984, all over again. Only this time, the roles are reversed.
This is affirmed by the fact that the 1984 ad that was played during MWSF had an iPod digitally grafted on to the woman throwing the hammer.
Apple is now the dominant manufacturer of portable music playback devices and has assumed the role of IBM. The licensing of the iPod and iTMS is a move straight out of the IBM playbook 20 years ago.
Three months ago I saw this parody article, and now it's come true. Some the quotes in it are now downright prescient:
Under Anti-Trust Pressure, Apple Releases iTunes for Windows
So why can't portable music players be able to play more than one form of digital music? Is it so impossible to have a player that can play both WMA and AAC? Why? Is it possible for companies to make a player that not only can play multiple audio formats but also have the ability to add a codec so you can play additional ones? That's something I'd like to see... by a player... and play any format...
so what, exactly, is unethical about moving jobs overseas? and is this statement supposed to cast doubt on the wisdom of going with iTunes?
jon
-- http://www.cerastes.org
In this case, Microsoft is right. Of all the DRM'ed music formats, Apple's verison of AAC offers the least choice to the consumer.
Now I do think that they are unfairly trying to force people to use IE and Windows Media Player, but that doesn't mean you can't install and use something else.
And as to why HP would continue to sell PC's if they are losing money, there are a few possibilities:
:)
1) they may hope to make money in the future (I am sure of this
2) they may make enough on peripheral sales with PC's to offset the loss on the PC
for instance, if they lose $1 per PC sold by on one out of every 3 PC's sold they sell a peripheral making them $4 then they have a motivation to keep selling PCs
3) to be considered a serious tech player they need to sell PCs
just some thoughts I had....
Are you forgetting any CD player? iTunes lets you burn your music to CD, so the limited support for protected AAC isn't that big a deal
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
You are not locked into the iPod with AAC dipshit.
1. Mac OS X
2. Mac OS Classic
End of Line.
Everyone isnt using windows for everything! How terrible!
This is all about MS history biting them in the ass. Their previous records of ass fucking every possible partner has gotten into the heads of people. You cant trust MS and thus you team up with ABM.
HTTP/1.1 400
WTF are you talking about? The OS doesn't support devices or software. Hardware vendors produce drivers; that is why Microsoft is able to (legitimately) claim that 70% of all MS-Windows failures are due to bad drivers. It is the hardware vendors that produce the drivers to the OS, not the other way 'round.
Same with software. Software is targetted *toward* an OS; the operating system is (hardly) never written towards an application.
Microsoft has made a company from destroying competition, yet (ironically) a lot of software is targetted toward the MS-Windows operating system.
This is due mostly to Microsoft's early control of the hardware distribution chain. By controlling the software that was installed when there was very little choice, they have managed to lock out other software from being included today. Since that control translated to 90% desktop market share, other software companies felt they were safe targetting the MS-Windows platform.
Apple does not have a history of driving other software companies out of business by bundling their own software with their OS; Microsoft does have that reputation. So your comments are extremely ironic, and display a certain ignorance of history.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Show me a team that doesn't want to win, whose rhetoric doesn't include 'kill kill conquer prevail' and I'll show you a losing team.
Go ahead and blather about their locker room talk over at Microsoft. There isn't another company in the world (except, maybe, loser companies) that doesn't have the same goals.
A product choice should not always be based on inertia. Since the MP3 player market since is so young, there isn't much inertia to begin with. Try quality, price, support, and other merits first.
* I apologize to those of you who have contributed to a Linux distro, but are not geeks. I didn't mean you, honestly
It also integrates with the Sony Clie and many other Palms with the help of MarkSpace's Missing Sync product.
You can't be a winning company in the long haul by worrying too hard about the next quarter, and being willing to abuse your customers in order to make that quarter look good. MS is busy thinking about ways to make personal computing more expensive to the customers, and more profitable to themselves. In order to get ever-higher returns, they need to have ever-tighter lock-ins. Some are going to chafe eventually. I believe that cutting back on users' choises will hurt MS in the end, although I have to admit it is working just fine for them now.
You can't have'em all Microsoft! Apple took the risk and launched the iTunes service before you did and now that it became somewhat successful you're all pissed that it weren't MS, right?
Microsoft is never more dangerous than when they are losing to a competitor and everyone knows it. Look what they did to Netscape, fer chrissakes. Netscape went from 85% market share, to a stripped carcass in the dumpster behind AOL HQ. Took a while, but it happened.
I'm just wondering when Microsoft will adapt that tactic to fight off the iPod, and start giving away WMA-based digital music players... boxed with copies of Windows, perhaps? Or available for ordering on their site, for just the cost of shipping. Prolly get away with it, too, if the fucking Republicans stay in power.
Not that MS wouldn't repeat the same party line, but I coulda sworn I saw a very similar if not identical quote when iTunes for Windows came out a few months back. It just jumped out at me (then and now) for the sheer absurdity of MS arguing FOR choice....
The iPod is nearly the only success story in paid music, why would HP select anything else?
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Don't count Sony out. They will launched their own online music store in the spring and will be using their own codec ATRAC. Might not mean anything to the US markets but if you ride the train in Japan you see everyone with MD players.
Asking about where to get fairplay returns a "currently under development and not able to buy" webpage. I also find it extremely hard to believe that you can simply license fairplay from veridisc and then use it to play apple AAC's. If I had to guess each fairplay system you order is custom to the relative customer.
Err.. they license the tech but maybe each person has a unique key to decode their particular DRM content. Otherwise one of the major MP3 player manufactures would license fairplay and tout their player as being able to play AAC's and WMA's.
"We expect competition and it's good for customers. Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.'' Translation: We will force "industry-standardized" choices down their throats no matter what the competition tries to feed them. It seems that Dell is becoming more and more of Microsoft's puppet. On another note, isn't the fact that HP is coming out with something to work with iTunes proof that this statement was made by an ignorant fool: "General manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod."
Well, quite - I use iTunes on my Mac in conjunction with Aeroplayer on my Palm Tungsten T2 - sure my 512MB SD card doesn't have iPod rivalling capacity, but I only walk 2 miles to work so it's not like I've got time to listen to THAT much stuff anyway. I use iTunes the old fashioned way - non-DRM, high bit rate, MP3 style.
And I like it!
That was classic intercourse!
It seems simple to me. If you like ITMS and iTunes or the iPod, Apple and HP will have those available to you. If you don't like them... Don't buy them. Vote with your dollars. Microsoft is mad because Apple finally figured out how to let everyone know they beat Microsoft to the punch. Whether you like Apple or not, it's about freakin' time they started getting some press with the products they release. I happen to like the service and the gear, so I can only try to reassure you that it's worth the money, and I have yet to have their DRM get in the way of anything I want to do. It sounds to me like Microsoft is feeling the burn from people exploring choices other than them. In that statement, I mean to include not only Apple products, but also OSS. I thought they were all about innovation driving market share?
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
He means that with a Microsoft OS you can choose where to buy your processor, where to buy your motherboard, your video card, etc, etc. With Apple, there is just the one vendor since Apple killed off the cloners, and if you want to use the hardware, you pay whatever Apple wants to charge for it.
And look what happens when you buy all your hardware from random sources and piece it all together... you get so many machines that lock up for no reason at all. This is not the way Apple wants it. We don't pay Apple for superior hardware, we pay for a machine that works, and works rather flawlessly. (and looks damn fine while doing so.)
==========
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www.smadness.com
Not quite. Apple wants everyone to use Fairplay-encrypted-AAC, developed by and only available to apple.