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The Golden Transcendence

Argyle writes "I recently finished reading The Golden Transcendence by John C. Wright. A great novel that serious science fiction readers should pick up. The Golden Transcendence is the third book in The Golden Age trilogy. The first two books were The Golden Age and The Phoenix Exultant." Read on to see if this series might be for you; if so, you're just in time, because author John C. Wright (a retired attorney) is working on the next book, Orphans of Chaos. The Golden Transcendence : Or, The Last of the Masquerade author John C. Wright pages 350 publisher Tor Books rating Excellent reviewer Michael Pusateri ISBN 0765307561 summary Can the determination of an individual change the entire society?

The books are firmly in the space opera genre with a dash of Heinlein libertarianism tossed in for good measure. The story takes place in the far future when artificial intelligences (known as sophotechs) and humans live immortal lives in a libertarian society of near unlimited technology. The experience of real physical interaction is replaced in many cases by remote bodies, recorded experiences of others, and complete control of what a person perceives. Humanity has moved beyond the one body - one brain system and has adopted many different systems of thought and even physical form

Mr. Wright puts forth a brilliant vision of technology and society in the far future where wealth is measured in seconds of computer time and physical labor is non-existent. In this future, there is are still wealthy and poor people but in a different way. In a good interview, Mr. Wright explains:

There would still be rich and poor, even if the poorest of the poor were absurdly well off by our standards. No advancements can eliminate differences in the abilities of men, or the differences in how men value the abilities of their fellow man (which is what causes inequality of prices and hence of incomes). If only by comparison, there will be poverty, even in Arcadia. My characters Ironjoy, Oshenkyo, and the Afloats [...] are meant to represent this idea of future poverty; the Seven Peers represent wealth.

As an example as just one of the concepts presented, we can look at the idea of 'sensefilters.' Perception is no longer what organic senses directly tell the mind. The signals received by the body or remote bodies are processed to be acceptable to the person's particular preferences. If a person doesn't like to see advertising, their mind eliminates the advertising from their vision and fills in the scene with what would be there if the advertisement wasn't there. Consciously, the person isn't aware of this, only that they have requested not to see advertisements. Sensefiltering can be used to remove (or add) objects, people, and even ideas from an individual's perception. The plot devices are interesting stuff that Mr. Wright explores in just enough detail to keep you wanting more throughout the trilogy.

The protagonist, Phaethon, is the son of one of the most important people in the society (known as the Golden Oecumene). In the first two books, Phaethon struggles against first the realization that he is missing parts of his memory, his struggle against society, his fall into exile, and his return to strength.

The third book finds Phaethon poised to fight against the true enemy that has been revealed to him. Without spoiling too much, Phaethon is forced to fight for the very survival of his society (which tossed him out) or allow it to be destroyed.

The author, John C. Wright, obviously has a libertarian heart and embodies the attributes of individuality, resourcefulness, ingenuity and desire for progress in Phaethon, the hero. In the opening novel, we find a society content with things how they are, willing to simply stop progress to prevent anything from changing their utopia in any meaningful way. Phaethon is a man of action in opposition to the statist Golden Oecumene. The underlying theme is that without mankind's strive for exploration and new goals, it is doomed.

Overall, an excellent book and series for the science fiction reader looking for something more than blasters and evil six-legged aliens. Getting used to the terminology and concepts is slow at first but well worth the effort.

Final note: If you enjoy Iain Banks's Culture series, Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn, or John Varley's Eight Worlds, you will enjoy the The Golden Transcendence and the entire Golden Age Trilogy.

You can purchase The Golden Transcendence from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

172 comments

  1. Anti-spam? by blat.info · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As an example as just one of the concepts presented, we can look at the idea of 'sensefilters.' Perception is no longer what organic senses directly tell the mind. The signals received by the body or remote bodies are processed to be acceptable to the person's particular preferences. If a person doesn't like to see advertising, their mind eliminates the advertising from their vision and fills in the scene with what would be there if the advertisement wasn't there. Consciously, the person isn't aware of this, only that they have requested not to see advertisements. Sensefiltering can be used to remove (or add) objects, people, and even ideas from an individual's perception. The plot devices are interesting stuff that Mr. Wright explores in just enough detail to keep you wanting more throughout the trilogy (see other review).

    1. Re:Anti-spam? by Wintensis · · Score: 5, Insightful



      I think this has the potential to take things WAY to far.

      One could argue that if one has one's 'filters' set to high, one can end up screening out anything NEW. New experiences are what keeps the mind growing. So - I have visions of hordes of drones soaked in a safe, porn-tinted perceptual cocoon.

      Not saying that the idea doesn't have merit, but I think it can be abused.

      I'd say... go for a 5% 'totally random material' bypass ;)

    2. Re:Anti-spam? by maliabu · · Score: 4, Interesting

      the 'sensefilters' probably won't work in real life. it only filters things out visually, but not physically .

      this means you're still paying for the bandwidth taken to download advertising, the people you don't like to meet will still be there, probably slapping and kicking you invisibly.

      filtering ads on TV will show you what would be there if the ads wasn't there - ie nothing.

    3. Re:Anti-spam? by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 1

      Something worth thinking about is the idea of the merge between life experience and advertising. For example an advertisement might display a woman rollerblading or smiling. How would you be able to tell a difference between an "advertisement" that contained nothing but a picture of a womans face and a woman sitting still on a park bench, say... reading or something?

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    4. Re:Anti-spam? by Wintensis · · Score: 2, Interesting



      hmm... now, I don't know what to do about 'invisible assailants' (that make me chuckle, btw) or paying for bandwidth by ads that I don't ever see, but finding a replacement for things that are blocked out shouldn't be a problem: I'll use the time/perceptual space to view my collection of por... classical art - much like I have on my screen-saver, or wallpaper.

      Heck - I can even see a new art form growing up around that. Subscribe to 'Ad-ventures', the new series of 15-second serial story vinettes, shown to you in place of commercial advertising! Why follow just one story when you can follow two?!

    5. Re:Anti-spam? by Malacca · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the book, 'sensefilters' can be used by both 'persons' with meat bodies as well as completely incorporeal uploaded 'persons'.

      In the latter case, for the person involved, both the 'visual' and 'physical' are filterable. It is only for 'persons' with meat bodies that one could be slapped and kicked invisibly. One of the taboos in the Golden Oecumene is acting contrary to the sense-filtered worldview of others.

    6. Re:Anti-spam? by Wintensis · · Score: 1

      How is this even possible NOT to do?

      To stop from violating YOUR sense filter, don't I have to know what it is, and vice-versa? I might not WANT you to know what my filters are doing. (no, really, NO ONE is naked in my filter, honest).

      Besides... what happens if I'm dealing with two people at the same time, and doing action A will violate person #1's sense filter, and NOT doing action A will violate person B's? (If I dodge the imaginary tiger, for example. Does it not exist and can't be reacted to, or does it exist and DEMANDS reaction?).

    7. Re:Anti-spam? by maliabu · · Score: 1

      Heck - I can even see a new art form growing up around that. Subscribe to 'Ad-ventures', the new series of 15-second serial story vinettes, shown to you in place of commercial advertising! Why follow just one story when you can follow two?!

      now you're giving ideas to advertisers who can advertise in this filtered timeframe. money will eventually take over. like Cable TV which you pay to watch movie without ads.

      and how do they avoid being double-filtered in this filtered space? well, combining PurdueGraphicsMan's comment under the same parent post and the spam activities nowadays, those fill-the-filtered advertisers will just get one of these 'sensefilters' and modify/watch their own ads until they are no longer filtered out.

    8. Re:Anti-spam? by chunkwhite86 · · Score: 2, Funny

      One could argue that if one has one's 'filters' set to high, one can end up screening out anything NEW. New experiences are what keeps the mind growing. So - I have visions of hordes of drones soaked in a safe, porn-tinted perceptual cocoon. Not saying that the idea doesn't have merit, but I think it can be abused.

      Well, considering most content seems to be created like This, it's no wonder we need content filters.

      --
      I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
    9. Re:Anti-spam? by RetroGeek · · Score: 1

      How would you be able to tell a difference between an "advertisement" that contained nothing but a picture of a womans face and a woman sitting still on a park bench, say... reading or something?

      By the sound.

      Try grabbing its breasts......

      --

      - - - - - - - - - - -
      I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
    10. Re:Anti-spam? by Malacca · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IIRC, there are AI routines that operate below the conscious level to consensualise the 'sensefiltered' environments. Trust the machines; the machines are your friend.

      One of the issues covered is the disadvantage of having one's perception modified like this. It's a blindspot that can be exploited. So, I could e.g take myself out of the 'sensefiltered' environment, and see things as they really are. In this case, there would be nothing to tell me what is and isn't acceptable to people around me.

    11. Re:Anti-spam? by Wintensis · · Score: 1



      I don't know about you, but if I was a company, and I paid for an ad timeslot, and I got filtered out by someone's perceptual filter, and YOU (as another company) put YOUR ads in a timeframe that I paid for, I'd sue your ass!

      Seriously though, yes, if you had the option of 'filtering out' ads, you probably would have to pay more - SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has to pay for media development. You think that the 'media fairy' hands out $$$ to artists to create stuff? Theoretically, this is what art councils are for - but in this day and age people don't seem to want to pony up TAX dollars for the arts, so you gotta PAY for them - weather it's a subscription fee (cable, ad-free), or ad-revenue driven (broadcast TV which is theoretically free), or a combination (your cable company carrying programs with SOME ads, but not as many).

      If you're looking for good quality content that you DON'T have to pay for one way or another (taxes, advertising, or subscription fees), I'd like to know where you think the money for development and creation of such material is going to come from?

      Personally, I'd LOVE to see more 'user supported' systems like PBS, etc - but the well is only so deep for that sort of thing.

    12. Re:Anti-spam? by Wintensis · · Score: 1



      Hey! Are you badmouthing Strongbad?!? DELETED!!

      However, I think you are more likely pointing out the 'web-design tips' being handed out in that particular episode.

  2. Science Fiction? by digital_milo · · Score: 5, Funny

    More like 'Math' Fiction.

    I love how some trilogies have at least 4 parts.

    1. Re:Science Fiction? by splutty · · Score: 1

      The ever increasingly inaccurately named trilogy?

      (Of course referring to Douglas Adams ;)

      Mad.

      ps. Since in the future we can filter content, would we also be able to filter out absolutely horrible 2s and 3s to books and/or movies? Now that would be nice..

      --
      Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
    2. Re:Science Fiction? by Coz · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes it is... and they keep showing the same movies....

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
  3. single book please.. by viniosity · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I really enjoy both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, but what I wouldn't give for a novel that just ended without dragging me into 3 or more books. I just don't have time to read 3 in a row and I don't have patience to wait for them to keep coming out. (I am aware I'm being picky here)

    I know that the authors have investigated serious time in creating their world, but I'm not proposing never using the world again.. just give the particular character and plot a rest. Outside of the franchises (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Star Trek) that pump out more than I want to keep track of, I don't see much.

    The last good one I read: Tigana

    The last bad one I read: Wheel of Time Series (OMG-will it EVER end?)

    1. Re:single book please.. by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just don't have time to read 3 in a row and I don't have patience to wait for them to keep coming out.

      I have a rule that I don't start reading a series of books until it's done. I want to know that there is an ending. But, sadly, I did get sucked into the Harry Potter series, now I live in terror that JKR will get hit by a bus before she finishes. Or worse, what must be tempting in her position, she takes the money and runs away from the pressure of it all.

      --
      In London? Need a Physics Tutor?

      American Weblog in London

    2. Re:single book please.. by Slider451 · · Score: 1

      Good points about the trend towards trilogies/epics.

      The last bad one I read: Wheel of Time Series (OMG-will it EVER end?)

      That's a perfect example. The Lord of the Rings, six books contained in three novels, is less than 1000 pages altogether. The latest WOT novel (the tenth, I think) is 1000 pages by itself... 1000 grinding, monotonous pages. And it sounds like we have to suffer through at least two more.

      Modern authors need to re-read their Strunk & White.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    3. Re:single book please.. by hoggoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > sounds like we have to suffer through at least two more.

      Um.... no you don't.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    4. Re:single book please.. by skia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As I recall, the Golden Age was written as one book. It was the publisher's will that it be split into three novels, perhaps in part because this was Wright's first book, and in part because it's incredibly dense reading.

      But you may be in luck. I recall hearing rumors that the three books will be combined into one volume in the near future.

      As to the Wheel of Time, there is no comparison to be made between Wright's series and that monstrosity. For one thing, The Golden Age is complete now. You can go and read the whole thing from end to end right now should you choose. For another, Wright wisely decided to finish his series before penning prequels!

      --

      --

    5. Re:single book please.. by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really enjoy both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, but what I wouldn't give for a novel that just ended without dragging me into 3 or more books. I just don't have time to read 3 in a row and I don't have patience to wait for them to keep coming out.

      Translation: You want to read a novel that's contained within one book. A LOT of novelists (especially in the franchises) forget that LOTR was three books because it was so long--not because three volumes really helps the story. (Though, again, a lot of the second-tier francise stories are single-volume contained...)

      A good one-volume fantasy I got for Xmas was Song of the Beast by Carol Berg. Nicely done. (Her premiere work, a trilogy, while good and modestly self-contained, is really a long story that should be read together, and not what you want.)

      Of course, my own work (see homepage) will be as standalone as I can get them. Definitly not as serial as Wheel of Time has gotten.

    6. Re:single book please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. It sounds like you've been reading them all.

      Why?

    7. Re:single book please.. by Coz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Modern authors need to re-read their Strunk & White.

      I believe it was Twain who said that as a starting point, an author should take every occurrence of the word "very" and change it to "damn" - since the editors of the day would promptly remove it, thereby improving the overall quality of the writer's work.

      Strict Strunk & White makes for fairly flavorless text - but a good story can still fight its way through.

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
    8. Re:single book please.. by Slider451 · · Score: 1

      You're right. I don't. Unfortunately I probably will, because I enjoyed the first five or six and want to see how it ends.

      I still watch Enterprise, too, hoping against hope that there might be a diamond in the rough.

      I should read my own sig more often, I guess.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    9. Re:single book please.. by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      The last bad one I read: Wheel of Time Series (OMG-will it EVER end?)

      I hope not.

    10. Re:single book please.. by Malacca · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The Golden Age" was very much worth the effort and for me is a stand-out book of recent vintage. I was however very frustrated when nearing the end of the first book, realising that there was no way Wright could tie up all the loose ends in the few pages remaining. I didn't know it was a trilogy. Nothing on the blurb suggested that it wasn't a stand-alone. Only on the last page of the first book was there a line about the story continuing in 'Phoenix Exultant'.

      Now I don't mind reading long series if they're good, but I thought it misleading of the publishers not to inform the reader. I expected (perhaps naively) that it was a stand-alone novel. That it wasn't was frustrating; "You mean I'll have to wait another few years to read the end of the story!"

    11. Re:single book please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have read 2 recent mass-paperbuck publishings which will satisfy your request: Kiln People by David Brin and Darwin's Blade by Dan Simmons.

      Refreshing work from two proven authors.

    12. Re:single book please.. by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I still watch Enterprise, too, hoping against hope that there might be a diamond in the rough.

      Well, you got me there. I'm still watching Enterprise also, hoping one day for this:

      A hologram wavers into place in Archer's cabin.
      Archer: Daniels, it that you?
      Al: Sam, it's me. Sorry it took so long. Ziggy finally figured out why you are wasting your acting talents on this terrible show. You are supposed to rescue the only decent actor on the show, John Billingsley, from destroying his career.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    13. Re:single book please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or even worse, pulls a Robert Jordan and starts writing prequels to his already too long series before he's even done.

    14. Re:single book please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lucky you, IIRC the last chapter is already written, and has been buried deep in the ground (was it in Oxford Station).

    15. Re:single book please.. by syrion · · Score: 1
      The problem seems to be that a lot of authors create a world first, and then, at some point after that, begin to almost think about maybe putting in a plot. Some authors in particular--I don't want to name any names, but his world is square and the main character has the name of a C function--seem to have set out to write something entirely different from what they actually ended up doing. This is inexcusable. Somewhere along the line, authors and publishers have forgotten that editing is one of the great challenges for the writer; that's what makes (good) short stories harder to write than novels, and (good) poems harder still. Why aren't there any modern, good science fiction and fantasy novels that weigh in around 200 pages?

      That said, I really like George R. R. Martin--though this may be a bit hypocritical. Unlike the aforementioned author, his series actually seems to be going somewhere (though his writing pace is glacial). On the other hand, the number of books seems to be slowly swelling...

    16. Re:single book please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Planesdragon wrote:
      Of course, my own work (see homepage) will be as standalone as I can get them.

      Very "standalone," obviously. I tried taking you up on your invitation, but the link to your work is broken.

      The link I tried was: http://www.castlesteelstone.us/CastleSteelstone/do cuments/FDILprelude.pdf

    17. Re:single book please.. by Eivind · · Score: 1
      realising that there was no way Wright could tie up all the loose ends in the few pages remaining.

      *grin* Did you ever read any from Peter Hamilton ? For example The Reality Dysfunction, The Nano Flower or A Quantum murder ?

      I've been thinking what you where thinking when reading Hamilton on a few occasions. For example The Reality Dysfunction ..

      SPOILER ALERT ...

      ...is a trilogy, 3 *thick* books, 1000 pages each or more. And yet, when there's like 50 pages left you start wondering if he ain't going to start wrapping up all the loose ends at some point.

      He does. But he spends about 3 pages doing so. And does so by the simple expediment of proclaiming: "Hero met a God, the God set everything back in order." Like really. Even the bad guys go to heaven. The past is undone where wished for, solar-systems are moved around with abandon and whatnot.

      Best of all is that the "God" didn't really play a part at all in the series otherwise, it *really* feels like "Hell, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I gotta end it somehow, so ..."

      His other books aren't that extreme, but they all share this stopping-by-running-into-a-wall feeling. A pity too, because the books themselves are higly entertaining, if yo can live with the sucky/non-existant endings.

  4. Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Theatetus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never liked science fiction but all my friends do. Most of the books I've read seem to just be about the technology, races and languages the author has imagined rather than using those as a medium for telling a compelling story; the tail wags the dog.

    I like Ray Bradbury, but all my sci-fi-fan friends say that's not "real" science fiction. So can anybody think of a "real" science fiction author that isn't

    • Pretentious
    • Focused on the stuff the author made up, and/or
    • Trying to make up for its bad writing by making some grand political or theological "statement"?

    I'd like to get in to sci fi because it seems like an interesting genre in principle, but I can't seem to find any authors other than Bradbury who care about writing a good book or story. Any ideas?

    --
    All's true that is mistrusted
    1. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ray Bradbury was "real" Science Fiction at the time. Today, like most of Jules Vern, it has become the past. If you want examples of hard Science Fiction(Deffinition, Take today, advance technology one step, see what happens), try "Kim Stanley Robinsons" Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars Trilogy. Also try Robert A. Heinlen and James P. Hogan. They usually stick to hard SF as well. Most of the books you see in the Science Fiction section are borderline Fantassy. Super Science (Star Trek and the like) are either very soft SF or Fantassy.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    2. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Bradbury is absolutely science fiction.

      He extrapolates "current" technology and politics to produce possible futures. Thats one reason why many people say that "SF" is "Speculative Fiction" rather than "Science Fiction". That includes many authors.

      Anybody who reckons it can't be science fiction if the captian of the star fleet doesn't shag at least half a dozen females of varios raices don't deserve to be taken seriously.

    3. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I too, try to like science fiction, but vastly more often than not, I'm dissapointed. The only author I like consistantly is Greg Egan.

      I think that sci-fi novels are the male equivalent of romance novels. They even have the same style cheesy covers.

      --
      In London? Need a Physics Tutor?

      American Weblog in London

    4. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Off the top of my head...

      Dune
      2001
      The Man Who Folded Himself
      The Demolished Man
      A Deepness in the Sky
      Ubik (and/or) Valis
      Tales of Known Space / The Smoke Ring / Ringworld
      Hyperion novels (4 of them?)
      Ender's Game

      uhh that's it for now...

      wait a minute. is this a troll?

    5. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by rkhalloran · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The problem most SF fans have with Bradbury is his generally pessimistic tone; we/they expect the genre to be basically the opposite, given it presumes we've made it to the future and expanded into space.


      That said, the Peter Hamilton and George R.R. Martin books mentioned above are good, and you might also want to look into David Brin's work.

    6. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Coz · · Score: 1

      Heinlein WAS fairly hard SF - he's now Gone. The same can be said for Dr. A. I like Robinson and Brin for the "hardness" of their SF while still telling good stories.

      Remember when all the SF stories' computer names ended in "AC" - for "Analog Computer"? At the time, that was "hard" SF - it didn't age well.

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
    7. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by CodeSong · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try Iain M. Banks. It Culture series is well known and I've found it very entertaining reading with well fleshed out characters and good storyline

      Or try Orson Scott Card's 'Ender's Game' and the companion 'Shadow' series (Ender's shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon and Shadow Puppets) All of Card's books tend to focus more on his characters and storyline than on science. He's also written a lot of fantasy, so you might want to check that out. You can read the first chapter of some (all?) of his books on his website.

      Anyway, there are tons of good books out there. Just sample here and there and you're bound to find something that suits your taste. And bluntly speaking, there is no such thing as real SF, just different "subgenres". If you find an author whose books you like, to h*ll with your friends and enjoy yourself :-)

      CodeSong

    8. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by kallisti · · Score: 1
      Sounds like you would like some Ted Sturgeon. Unlike many SF writers, he never forgot he was writing about humans for humans.

      You're last bullet point was against "statements", if not for that I would recommend Ursula LeGuin, but she does get political at times. Octavia Butler is also good, but I confess I haven't read much of her work.

      Some Spider Robinson is very good, avoid his recent stuff since he seems to have crawled up his own ass ("buy my new book! it features everything you liked about the last one!"). Try the Stardance series (also written with his wife) as a good starting place or the collection "By Any Other Name". Oh, I hope you don't mind puns.


      None of these are "hard SF", which it sounds like you wouldn't like anyway. Some hard SF, notably Greg Egan, contains lots of ideas about how people will live after things like death and corporeality are history, but he is tough going if you don't like math and physics. Personally, he is my favorite author, but I don't expect most people to like his work.

    9. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gene Wolfe's book of the new sun series, starting with "Shadow of the Torturer".

    10. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out Kurt Vonnegut and Philip K Dick. Especially Cats Cradle by Vonnegut...good times.

    11. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by mathin · · Score: 2

      I would argue that Ray Bradbury IS real sci-fi ... but that aside, you might try these authors:

      Frank Herbert: His Dune and Jesus Incident series are both very well written. Some of his earlier work isn't as polished, but those two series are great. (They do make some political statements, but the writting is good.)

      Kim Stanley Robinson: The Red/Green/Blue Mars series, Icehenge, Antarctica (set just a bit in the future on Earth ... really doesn't have much of the 'traditional' sci-fi elements, but does have some tech that doesn't exist now.)

      Dan Simmons: His 'Hyperion' series has some great stories within it (and on the whole is a good read too.)

      Well, that ought to get you started anyway.

    12. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by queequeg1 · · Score: 2

      Stephen Baxter's Manifold group of books (I believe three in all) is good hard sci-fi. Generally, they all involve fairly sweeping concepts about the progress of mankind and the evolution of the universe over billions of years. Essentially, he comes up with some story to wrap around various theories about how the universe works. For the most part, these stories work (aren't so hokey that they distract from the science). Sometimes, however, his stories (especially when they relate to contemporary US society and politics) are distracting.

    13. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      You're last bullet point was against "statements", if not for that I would recommend Ursula LeGuin, but she does get political at times. The first time I read Ursula LeGuin, it was in a college philosophy class. "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" was in the Professor's textbook as part of the section on Ethics, specifically regarding Utilitarianism. I didn't know the term, but had you asked me before I took the class to define right and wrong, I would have given the Utilitarian definition. After reading that story (and one other), I decided I must not be a Utilitarian after all...

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    14. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Douglas Adams.

    15. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds to me like "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card might be what you're looking for. If you just pick it up and read the back cover it can come across as a generic evil-space-aliens-invade-earth sort of thing, but don't be fooled. It's all about the characters. And it's definitely not generic.

      (I've always considered 'Dune' to be the best example I've ever read of good sci-fi, but to each his own I suppose.)

    16. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Wintensis · · Score: 1

      Actually - as much as a love Ray Bradbury's work, he is not what you would class as hard science fiction. He definatly violates the science KNOWN IN HIS TIME to make literary and story points. This is not a bad thing. He's a fantastic storyteller and author - but we're talking about genre classification.

      Me, I don't care if you want to call him 'post-modernist neo-trantorian steam-punk'. I still love his books.

    17. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Zangief · · Score: 1

      Ray Bradbury is real science fiction, but his style is different from others autors. He doesn't care too much for tech, so most of his works could well be in the fantasy genre.

      Also, he has written a lot of literature which is not science fiction, but, for some reason, this angers some fans. I don't understand this, as Asimov, for example, wrote a lot of works which were not science fiction.

      By the way, if you don't want something Pretentious, focused on the stuff the author made up, and/or trying to make up for its bad writing by making some grand political or theological "statement" you should avoid the good Doctor Asimov.

      I'm a fan of Asimov, and think that the foundation trilogy is the best thing that ever happened to the genre (and the sequeles/prequels he and others written after that, the worst), but he has every characteristic you mentioned.

      Hyperion is also good, but I think you wouldn't want to read it either.

    18. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      ...Peter Hamilton...

      He asked for neither pretentious nor badly written.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    19. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by my02wrxsti · · Score: 2, Informative

      David Brin. I believe David Brin to be one of the best hard science fiction authors writing today. Stong, complicated stories, engaging characters, set against backdrops of highly imaginative projections of our universe. About the only novel that could have been better put together would be "The Postman" which I have not been able to read more than once. His Uplift series is particularly brilliant. Richard.

    20. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by hey+hey+hey · · Score: 1

      My problem with Bradbury came when I was a kid, and was given a boxed set of like five of his books. Somewhere around the third book I realized I was able to predict (correctly) what was going to happen. I haven't read much of his since. I guess as an added aside, I should say I did enjoy them up until then...

    21. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by mikec · · Score: 1

      Well, if you don't like them, you don't like them; I won't try to convince you that your taste is wrong. However, your stated reasons for disliking SF seem odd.

      Personnally, I find that SF is usually more concerned about a good story than other genres. A typical non-SF novel (at least these days) seems far more concerned with the minutia of human relationships than any "story." Not that there's anything wrong with that. To pick a random example, I read "High Fidelity" last week. Excellent book. However, there is basically no "story" at all. It's all about the emotions of humorously disfunctional people. Of course, there's a school of literature critism that says that character development is everything and plot doesn't matter. If that's your point, I simply disagree. Luckily, there seem to be plenty of authors that cater to each of our tastes.

      As far as pretentiousness and quality of writing goes, it seems about equal to non-SF. Some is pretentious, some is not. Can anything match the pretentiousness or political bile of Leon Uris or Norman Mailer?

    22. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by zpok · · Score: 1

      OK, I want to introduce you to one writer I really love, who also is a great fiction author, the only writer I know who's equally enjoyable and skilful at both.

      But first let me bash up your little list, which to me seems inappropriate for judging fiction books:

      Pretentious?
      I don't care how an author sees himself, as long as I enjoy the writing.

      Focused on the stuff the author made up?
      Well, that's fiction writing for you. I don't see why you would read fiction from a writer who isn't focused on his universe. If you don't like that, stick to non-fiction.

      Trying to make up for its bad writing by making some grand political or theological "statement"?

      As a rule I don't read bad writing (or try to forget about it as soon as possible) so I can't really help with that either.

      But here's my writer for you anyway:

      Ian Banks.

      You'd be hard pressed to find real statements, he describes things that do make you think a lot about things, but as to conclusions or opinions he mercifully leaves that to you. And besides, the stories are mostly too intriguing and hilarious (not that he writes comedy) to really ponder all this before you've reached the last page.

      And bad writing... He's a great author, whether he writes fiction or science fiction.

      Try The Firm, Espedair Street or The Wasp Factory (all non-fiction) to see if his style suits you, and then dive into his Culture books. Note that these are not really trilogies or whatever, you can read every one of the Culture books on its own. The only thing they have in common is the setting, the back-drop. But you can read every one of his books in every order you choose and won't regret it. It's the best sci-fi I've ever read and you really can't compare his books to anything else.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    23. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by zpok · · Score: 1

      OK, The Firm should be The Business. xcuse me.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    24. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card. The book is about character development, lonliness, leadership. It is about the difference that one person can make in the lives of others in the face of adversary. A very powerful book, I must say. It is suppose to be a sequal to Ender's Game, but it can be read without having read Ender's Game (even the author admits this in the preface).

    25. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Orson Scott Card: The Mormon L. Ron Hubbard...

    26. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by smithmc · · Score: 1

      Ubik (and/or) Valis

      You're suggesting that VALIS (it's all caps) doesn't get wrapped up in stuff its author made up? The whole book is about Dick's raging paranoid delusions, innit?

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    27. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 1
      You're last bullet point was against "statements", if not for that I would recommend Ursula LeGuin, but she does get political at times. Octavia Butler is also good, but I confess I haven't read much of her work.



      Butler isn't heavy on tech, but she is on statements. That what I like about her work. She's generally not as heavy handed as someone like Hienlein or LeGuin though. So she may pass muster for you. If you want to try her out I'd recommend 'Wild Seed', or 'Dawn' the first in the Xenogenesis trilogy of books. Avoid the two currently available Eathseed books however, unless you become a fan, they're a bit preachy.

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    28. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by kalamazoo904 · · Score: 1

      The problem with Baxter is that he's a pessimist about the future of humanity. Read any of his books that project into the future and they will give a picture of a bleak humanity whose goals were crushed by an uncaring universe. And not elements of 'our' universe either, but the plot points that Baxter makes up (usually some alien species).

      --
      Your friendly neighborhood nitpicker
    29. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by gsyswerda · · Score: 1

      Try the Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson. Compelling characters and a great story.

      --
      Make a difference: move to a swing state.
    30. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 1

      Try Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga--ripping good yarns which, although they take place in a science-fiction setting, really aren't driven thereby. Alternatively, David Weber's Honor Harrington series is wonderful.

    31. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Grab · · Score: 1

      Trying to make up for its bad writing by making some grand political or theological "statement"?

      Strike Heinlein then, for the ultra-libertarian politics.

      Grab.

    32. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Grab · · Score: 1

      Check out "Grass" by Sheri S Tepper. I've got to get round to reading some of her other stuff, but "Grass" is stunning if you're into character-driven stuff.

      Grab.

    33. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      I think you're approaching science fiction from the wrong direction. The whole point of the genre is to ask, "What if..." and then see what happens. The best, most long lasting authors do this extremely well.

      The one characteristic that separates science fiction from its close cousin fantasy is that the science involved must be at least plausible. This is what makes the Wheel of Time series fantasy, NOT science fiction.

      (Disclaimer and aside: I'm a long time fan of both science fiction and fantasy. I also like long stories as long as they finally conclude. Some stories just take that long to tell. I liked the WOT series immensely when I read the first few books. I was willing to cut Jordan some slack until his last book came out. No serious plot development in how many pages? Gawd.)

      Do you want a good selection of stories to read in the genre? Simple, really. Do what you would do if you were looking for a good mystery, or book of poetry, or a how-to book on building bridges.

      Walk into a bookstore with a large selection of science fiction and look for the authors whose work is still being published 50 years after they wrote it. Jules Verne, H. G. Wells, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clark, Theodore Sturgeon, Robert Heinlein, L. Sprague De Camp, etc. should all be there. This will give you a reasonable selection of really good books to choose from.

      BTW, it's been my observation that people who complain about character development in science fiction seem to be looking for a different set of clues than those of us who are familiar with the genre look for. Remember, the important point of the genre is setting up a situation and imagining how people would react to it. People's backgrounds are frequently only sketchily done. Their interactions with each other outside the direct impact of the situation are also frequently limited in scope.

      IMO this is not necessarily a fault of the genre. However, I can see how it would put some people off because they are looking for a different experience.

      It's also most definitely NOT a fault of the person reading the material. If you don't like it, don't worry about it. Not everyone has to. I promise we won't take away your membership in the Geek Scouts. :)

      I would ask that when you approach science fiction, judge it by its rules. To be good literature it has to meet some basic tenets. To be good science fiction it has to meet some other basic tenets. The best examples of science fiction do both. But then, that's true of all literature regardless of genre, isn't it?

    34. Re:Slightly OT; sci fi in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. I've looked; they don't exist.

      Most sci-fi writers, and ALL of the hard science authors, write books devoid of nuance or literary skill, and they seem to have a contractual obligation to use cloying titles like the ones in this series. If you want a good read, stay away!

  5. Huxley meets Heinlein meets Neo by southpolesammy · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The Brave New Moon is a Harsh Matrix..."

    or something like that....

    --
    Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    1. Re:Huxley meets Heinlein meets Neo by jejones · · Score: 1

      How about Heinlein meets Ellison meets Tiptree meets Niven: "The Number of the Beast who Shouted 'Love is the Plan, the Plan is Death' at the Heart of the World of Ptaavs"?

    2. Re:Huxley meets Heinlein meets Neo by Coz · · Score: 1

      This looks like a new competition at the next WorldCon....

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
  6. What happened to standalone books? by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 3, Interesting

    nowadays it seems most writers embark on these loooooong series (that usually start blowing by the 3rd book), I know it's easier to just continue regurgitating the same stuff, but come on, show some originality!

    Notable example was the Erikson fantasy series (Malazan book of the fallen) which had a great 1st, good 2nd, ok 3rd and IMHO bad 4th (House of Chains IIRC) book. Notable exception to the rule is Martin's series that's still going strong (dying to read A Feast for Crows)

    For people looking for some good standalone sci-fi books look no further than John Varley, one of my favorite authors.

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
    1. Re:What happened to standalone books? by Mojojojo+Monkey+Inc. · · Score: 1

      I like Stephen Baxter's Manifold series for this reason. So far he has 3 books with the same characters and general setting, and with similar far-reaching ideas (distant future vs. distant galaxies vs. distant evolutionary lines), but each book is based in a separate "parallel universe" so you can read each one individually and not be lost. At the same time, it's "comfort food reading" as someone else said, if you've read the previous books you already know what many of the characters' personalities are, and if you like one book you'll probably like the others. Alternatively, if you hate one book, you'll hate 'em all.

    2. Re:What happened to standalone books? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. Recently I found Alastair Reynolds, and read three of his books (Revelation Space, Redemption Ark and Chasm City) two of which are the first of a trilogy.

      I raved about this bloke and the series to everyone who would listen. And then his third book in the series came out. What a waste of money!!

      The whole series is leading up to a massive climax which jsut never comes, the entire storyline is wrapped up in the epilogue after the end of the third book, which jsut seemed to be a secondary arc that got pulled to the front. If i could get my money back for it, I would (its hard back, nearly 15!). It blowed, seriously. The ending had the feel that the author had jsut given up writing it one day (it was 700 pages long at that point) and ended it. I was severely dissappointed.

    3. Re:What happened to standalone books? by kallisti · · Score: 1
      and if you like one book you'll probably like the others. Alternatively, if you hate one book, you'll hate 'em all.


      Not true, I really enjoyed Time, thought Space was excellent, and hated Origin. The first two explored the question "Are we alone?" and explained why either answer was really, really, bad. The third was a bunch of monkeys beating on each other pointlessly. What is it with the English and sadism anyway? (Iain Banks is even worse)

    4. Re:What happened to standalone books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree.... I just got the 2 novellas as well, and was vaguely disappointed with them as well. Idea size is all wrong. The guy has a great Sci-Fi tone, and pacing, but then the big idea is kind of squished as a result.

      I often get this with Sci/Fi Fantasy stuff - I guess the problem comes from "hiding the punchline"? I felt the same way about the other Scottish Sci Fi writer Ken Macleod's work. I even get it occasionally with Pratchett (although the proud owner of 30+ books fo his and counting, it clearly isnt that big a problem).

      I guess good Sci-Fi is making a good story out of them sci-fi premise (eg in Darkover Series, telepathy for example), rather than making the Sci-Fi a mystery quest?

      Winton

  7. Comfort Food Re:What happened to standalone books? by StefanJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People read books for different reasons.

    Sprawling SF or F series fill a need that many people feel. They want a comfortable place to escape to. Fictional comfort food.

    These are steady sellers, and some publishers favor them. Dedicated readers will keep buying them, out of a sense of loyalty or completeness, and forgive the occasional "dud."

    Different strokes for different folks.

  8. Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds pretty interesting, being a SW EU fan myself.

    SW EU: Southwest European Union?

    I enjoy a nice vacation in Spain or Portugal myself. But I don't see how that affects my interest in this book.

  9. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! Stole my comment!! by viniosity · · Score: 3, Informative

    Funny, but I don't remember plagerizing anything. In fact, the only thing I remember was typing the comment using my nifty PBG4. Shame on you for accusing me. Instead you should be brave enough to show your face and accept that somebody has a similar opinion.

  10. whoooosh by guet · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    No advancements can eliminate differences in the abilities of men, or the differences in how men value the abilities of their fellow man (which is what causes inequality of prices and hence of incomes).

    The sound of the 200 years since the industrial revolution, Marx & Engels, Smith, colonialism, rushing by unheeded. Things are just a *little* bit more complicated than this. If I hadn't read this kind of simplified 'libertarian' nonsense so many times on the internet I wouldn't believe people still gave credence to it.

    So the differences between incomes in the first world and the third world are dependent on differences in abilites??

    1. Re:whoooosh by M.+Silver · · Score: 2, Funny

      So the differences between incomes in the first world and the third world are dependent on differences in abilites??

      "Abilities" at the scale of nations would have to include things like geography, natural resources, and so on. Why not?

      --

      Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
    2. Re:whoooosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, it's "the differences in how men VALUE the abilities of their fellow man".

    3. Re:whoooosh by oob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Guet, if you haven't read his stuff already, I think you will enjoy Ken MacLeod's books.

      Dystopian near-future Science Fiction written by a Scottish ex-Trotskyite programmer with degrees in Zoology and Biomechanics.

      MacLeod is an astonishing writting talent and I think you will enjoy the political aspect of his books.

    4. Re:whoooosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is oversimplistic in the same way communism is. It's just throwing through the window what makes humans what they are : feelings.

      We feel, so we love, we hate, we envy, we don't give a fsck. Need I say more, or don't see enough reasons to explain disparities, other than plain differences in abilities ?

    5. Re:whoooosh by M.+Silver · · Score: 1

      It is oversimplistic in the same way communism is.

      Well, no, not really. It's more "oversimplistic in the way a couple lines out of an interview are."

      --

      Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
  11. Roots of Poverty by JohnsonJohnson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Libertarian myth that people will arrive at their appropriate station in life due to their own merits always amuses me. It becomes positively hilarious when you actually talk to them and realize they live in Lake Wobegon: where all the children are above average.

    Regardless of ability, poverty will result simply as a result of random chance. As long as there is an independent probability of a negative result there will be winners and losers, regardless of ability. In a large enough population there will be people who lose most of the time, through no fault of their own. They will be relatively poor then, but it has nothing to do with their personal ability.

    As a quick example, two investors mine some resource that's only available near fault lines. An earthquake comes, one investor's mine collapses and they are destitute. With the market all to themselves now the other is even wealthier than they would have been if the earthquake hadn't hit. They of course will write, or more precisely have someone ghost write, an autobiography lauding them as a business genius.

    1. Re:Roots of Poverty by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 1

      But a truly smart investor wouldn't put all of his eggs into one basket like that.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    2. Re:Roots of Poverty by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      They didn't buy earthquake insurance. They should have ensured that they had enough funding to do so before undertaking such a risky business venture as mining. It's their own fault.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    3. Re:Roots of Poverty by TrollBridge · · Score: 0
      "The Libertarian myth that people will arrive at their appropriate station in life due to their own merits always amuses me."

      So then you prefer the Liberal myth that one can only achieve success by suckling at the taxpayer teat?

      "Regardless of ability, poverty will result simply as a result of random chance."

      Victimhood has always been a classic cop-out used by lazy people to justify their sloth.

      "As a quick example, two investors mine some resource that's only available near fault lines."

      An irrelevant and unrealistic example. That implies that the investors have no other investments besides the risky one to choose from.

      --
      There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
    4. Re:Roots of Poverty by Slider451 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're trying to make it too complex. Circumstance (economic depression, natural disasters, etc.) certainly affects opportunity. But the poverty of third world nations doesn't disprove the concept of merit-based success.

      All else being equal (which is the environment portrayed in most Sci-Fi novels) people do go as far as their desires and talents will take them. Janitors are cheap because nearly everyone can be a competent janitor. Network architects are not cheap because their skills are rare. Supply and demand. Simple.

      Your example of the miners shows that one must take risks to get greater rewards. But failure rarely results in lifelong poverty. For someone willing to take the risks, failure is just a temporary stop on the journey upward.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    5. Re:Roots of Poverty by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      Hm, slashdot took away my home-made "stubborn free-market libertarian" tags. Treat the above as tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    6. Re:Roots of Poverty by JohnsonJohnson · · Score: 2, Informative

      So then you prefer the Liberal myth that one can only achieve success by suckling at the taxpayer teat?

      No, I prefer the myth that I am the chosen one; specially favored among all creation.

      An irrelevant and unrealistic example. That implies that the investors have no other investments besides the risky one to choose from.

      For all the posters who take analogies too literally, a little research would probably have clued you in that I was referring to recent results in economics and finance which indicate that individual ability is not the only driving factor in wealth distributions, more info here. I am not arguing against personal responsibility or merit, merely pointing out that there are financial forces as inevitable as the curvature of spacetime which shape the course of events as well. The upshot is, whether everyone is equally able or not, as long as there is a chance of failure in investment activities, wealth will not be evenly distributed. In fact, as time passes, inequalities will increase, this has nothing to do with taxation, victimization or the availability of a good insurance policy. There are quite a few corollaries to consider as well, but I'll let you return to your ad hominem straw man attacks now.

    7. Re:Roots of Poverty by stephanruby · · Score: 0
      "The Libertarian myth that people will arrive at their appropriate station in life due to their own merits always amuses me."

      This myth that you talk about is not libertarian, it's liberal. The assumption that life has to be fair. The assumption that a meritocracy has to be fair. That's a liberal idea. And indeed, this assumption is very "amusing".

      When two investors invest in mines in an earthquake area. They're taking risks. I don't want to make their lives fair and risk-free for them. I don't want to heavily subsidize their insurance policy through my taxes. I will not shoulder some of their risks. I will just let the chips fall where they may. In the end, that may not be fair, but I don't give a hoot about fairness -- I only care about myself and my family for the most part.

    8. Re:Roots of Poverty by El · · Score: 1

      Quicker examples: Bill Gates and Larry Ellison. Granted, these guys have some business accumen, but they are nowhere near superior enough to justify the $50 billion premiums they have received... methinks it has more to do with "luck" than "talent".

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    9. Re:Roots of Poverty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Victimhood has always been a classic cop-out used by lazy people to justify their sloth"

      LOL. That's what's your going to go with? All of the world's poor are just lazy?

      Please for the love of God DON'T Reproduce. Although with a toxic mind like yours I can't imagine we have anything to worry about.

    10. Re:Roots of Poverty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How long will we hear this third-world is poor crap? They've been around at least as long as the first-world (longer, for a good many) countries, yet they STILL haven't progressed, or they have regressed. WHY? Rise and fall of societies as a whole - that's why we have the third-world. But there are still rich and poor there. And there will be rich and poor, because of supply/demand.

    11. Re:Roots of Poverty by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      All else being equal (which is the environment portrayed in most Sci-Fi novels) people do go as far as their desires and talents will take them.

      Which is of course probability is well - in this case, the lottery of genetics supplying their desires and talents.

  12. Authors by guet · · Score: 1

    Iain M Banks Isaac Asimov Wells (The war of the worlds) Orwell (1984)

  13. Re:Comfort Food Re:What happened to standalone boo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > forgive the occasional "dud."

    As long as its only occasional.

    An example:

    Dune rocked
    The next two were pretty good.
    Volumes 4-6 were very ordinary. Volume 5 blew really hard.
    I never bothered with the prequels.

    Also Pratchett is starting to run out of ideas. The first couple in the discworld series were finding his feet, Volumes 3 through to about 12 are classics. Afterthat we have nothing special intersperced with flashes of inspiration.

    Still, he makes more money and has more fans that I ever will.

  14. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! Stole my comment!! by britneys+9th+husband · · Score: 2, Informative

    How to prove that your comment was stolen:

    1. Go to the anti-slash.org web site.
    2. In the upper-right corner, click on "tools."
    3. Click the link to "Use the Database Tool."
    4. Type your user name in the Author field.
    5. Look for your plagiarized comment in the search results (the site also provides you with a link to the original story).

    You can also go directly to the database tool (without having to click on the links I described) by going to http://www.anti-slash.org/tools/db/.

    --
    Hear recorded Slashdot headlines on your phone! New service beta testing. Just call (248) 434-5508
  15. I set my Sensefilter to filter Mr. Wrights writing by hoggoth · · Score: 1

    > The signals received by the body or remote bodies are processed to be acceptable to the person's particular preferences. If a person doesn't like to see advertising, their mind eliminates the advertising from their vision

    I have set my Sensefilter to remove any further discussion of Mr. Wright's books, which don't sound interesting at all.

    Hey, what happened to that Slashdot thread I was reading? Oh well, what was I doing?

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  16. I loved the series. by Leareth · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was turned onto it by a local bookseller who is friends with the author and had read advance copies.

    I think it is a little misleading to call it Space Opera, because only the setting is such.
    No other Space opera even begins to touch on some of the issues addressed within.

    These include (but not limited too) what is truth, thought and humanity; ethics both of culture and individual; societal responsibility and individual responsibilities as well as human right vs societal rights; the nature of consciousness and how does perception affect it; the morel, societal and humanistic consequences of altering the human template; and whether tis nobler to quietly into that good night or rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Mind you I also want to beat Mr. Wright soundly. Some of the concepts that he mentions IN PASSING ONLY almost deserve an individual exploration of a book of their own. I stopped counting at about twenty in the first book alone. It seemed like every single page he mentioned a concept and I though "Wow that'd make a great book..." and then he'd move on.

    Anywho, my $.02

    --
    *A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer.*
  17. No, I've read those by Theatetus · · Score: 1

    Most of them are exactly what I'm complaining about, especially Dune *shudder*. If I wanted to switch almost entirely to a made-up language halfway through a book I would have read Tolkien. I guess 2001 was OK, and so was Canticle for Liebowitz. I just don't like how many books end up being about the technology itself rather than about the people around the technology.

    I managed to sit through the first Hyperion without too much retching, but after that it just became another book full of gadgets and lofty claims about politics and god.

    --
    All's true that is mistrusted
    1. Re:No, I've read those by mathin · · Score: 1

      If you just read the first Dune book, then you are missing out :) The first book is quite different than the rest of the series. The last is the best in my opinion. But it sounds like you don't like books with politics or god ... I always thought the politics were about the people.

      Sci-fi short stories often tend to be more about the people ... try 'Flowers for Algernon,' 'The Rocking Horse Winner,' or many of the short stories by Theodore Sturgeon

    2. Re:No, I've read those by Malacca · · Score: 1

      Maybe SF isn't your thing. Technology, alien cultures and languages are integral signifiers of the genre. Within that spectrum are a diverse variety of flavours of SF. If what you're after are people stories in an SF background, may I suggest:

      'To Say Nothing of the Dog' by Connie Willis
      It's exceedingly well written, the SFnal (time travel) aspects are very minor, not to mention funny and character-driven. Willis was voted best SF/fantasy writer of the 90's by LOCUS readers. It's a book I often lend to people who are not big SF fans but like a good story.

      Lois McMaster Bujold is another writer I recommend. Her Miles Vorkosigan stories are in a futuristic setting but the technological aspects are very much secondary to the story. 'The Warrior's Apprentice' is a good place to start.

    3. Re:No, I've read those by kfg · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair it is called science fiction for a reason. Science is the intended focus. If you don't like that, well don't read it. You'll get no guff from me.

      Your friends who condemn Bradbury are twits though. "The Veldt," for instance, is pure science fiction. It is also a masterpiece as a short story.

      I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in a story though. You want it to be about people, not gadgets, but don't want romance, fantasy, politics or religion. I'm not really sure what's left and certainly Bradbury violates all of the above.

      I would have thought Ender's Game would be a perfect story for you.

      Thus I'm a bit reluctant to make any suggestions. Ursula LeGuin's The Dispossed is a wonderful story, well told, devoid of gadgets. . .but full of humanist philosophy.

      Well, so is Shakespeare and Melville. Swift's Gulliver's Travels would be right out.

      How about Ellison's early New Wave stuff, like The Deathbird Stories?

      Or maybe just pick up some John Irving.

      Really, I'm clueless as to what you're looking for.

      KFG

    4. Re:No, I've read those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, to sum it up, you want science-fiction, without the gadgets, and without the save-the-world plot...Errr...
      Ok, actually, you don't want science-fiction.

      Frankly, what are you expecting from science-fiction ? Science doesn't change the world otherwise than through its applications, namely the "gadgets". And if it doesn't change the world, what's the point ?

      Hmmm, now that I think about it, you should try the cyberpunk stuff. There's no world to save, since it's already lost, and thus it's all about the people who have to deal with the situation.

      Or did you try it already ?

    5. Re:No, I've read those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you recommend any good cyberpunk. I've read neuromancer, but I can't seem to find any other stuff I like.

    6. Re:No, I've read those by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      Can you recommend any good cyberpunk. I've read neuromancer, but I can't seem to find any other stuff I like.

      Reply to this one please. The other one won't message me.

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    7. Re:No, I've read those by tiled_rainbows · · Score: 1

      The Diamond Age, by Neal Stephenson.

      Actually, I don't know if it counts as cyberpunk, but it probably does, as it starts off with a guy in a biker jacket getting a gun implanted in his head, and a lot of it is about information and computation and 'cyber-' stuff like that.

      And it's very good, with proper characters with personalities and everything. And two characters called 'Judge Fang' and 'Doctor X'. Basically it's got everything one could possibly want in a novel. Damn, I'm gonna go read it again.

    8. Re:No, I've read those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't think the Diamond age is cyberpunk, I'd rather class it as an post-cyberpunk kind of story, with some interesting ideas.

      OTOH, N. Stephenson previous one : "SnowCrash", is a pretty good cyberpunk novel.

      You could try also the rest of Gibson writings. It slowly departed from cyberpunk to move to plain anticipation in the latest work of his though.

      Another author I really like, and who made a few cyberpunk stories : Walter Jon Williams his early work).

  18. Re:single book please..(Vernor Vinge) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Take a look at some Vinge stuff. Most of his works do stand independently, even though he reuses worlds and even characters. Good stuff...

  19. Some thoughts on Poverty and this Book by ewanrg · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Let me start with the obligatory link to a program designed to help address the problem of poverty in these current United States.

    With that out of the way, as one of the other posters has shown there are a number of factors that lead to poverty in the current world. There is no reason to believe in the kind of future that this trilogy describes that any of those factors would still apply. In fact I've been very disappointed that the author seems to allow people to "edit out" advertising but doesn't seem to consider that you can "edit out" knowing about people better or worse off than you. IOW, in that society why would I care to know I wasn't rich?

    With all that, I'd have to give these titles more of a mixed review. I think that the author has spent a fair bit of time coming up with some cool ideas. However, as with much of the genre, the characters seem dedicated to giving an excuse for the author to expound on the ideas than to actually giving us well-rounded characters who might make us learn or feel something new about the human condition.

    Just my .02 worth.

    1. Re:Some thoughts on Poverty and this Book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where would the extra economic activity come from to generate a return on all the trillions of dollars of extra investment your scheme envisages? Most likely the effect would be to generate an enormous stock bubble and all the money would end up in the hands of a few clever investors.

  20. Whole trilogy for $17.99 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.sfbc.com/doc/browse/detail/product_deta il.jhtml?repositoryId=623900010&repositoryId=62390 0010

    If you read alot join this book club it is great.

  21. Re:Cool by HappyCitizen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sorry if I was unclear. SW EU stands for: Star Wars Extended Universe

    --
    http://www.beyourowneviloverlord.tk
    http://www.frozenchickenthrowing.tk
    http://www.killercamel.tk
  22. More Extensive Review of the First 2 Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    This really is a good book, for an extensive review of the first 2 books in the trillogy go to:

    The Golden Age
    The Phoenix Exultant

    1. Re:More Extensive Review of the First 2 Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aiee.. goatse spamX0r.

  23. from /which/ dept? by Frogg · · Score: 0, Redundant

    i'd just like to point out that this article is:

    "from the spam-filtering-ideas dept." ...not that i fully understand - but i might end up reading this trilogy should my spam get too much worse.

  24. humans live by Darth23 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ...immortal lives in a libertarian society...zzzzzzzzzzz

    --

    -------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.

    1. Re:humans live by El · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you'd prefer "Immoral lives in a librarian society"? If you are not suggesting a preferred alternative, it's not constructive criticism.

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  25. By it's nature 'hard' science fiction does not age by FatSean · · Score: 0

    ...well. The author takes a guess about the future and as with all future predictions...it'll most likely be wrong! My favorite example is some of the Heinlein kid books...Mankind can fly to Jupiter on a rocket ship but they still use sliderules to calculate orbits! haha...

    --
    Blar.
  26. serious literature by xyr0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    sci fi books that are published as a series usually suck. i dont want to read 3 or 4 or even more books that are written the same way over and over and deal with topics in a pseudo-like way.

    if you want to find out about humans, society and such, serious literature is the way to go.

    1. Re:serious literature by S.Lemmon · · Score: 1

      if you want to find out about humans, society and such, serious literature is the way to go.

      Really? I always preferred going out and talking to them.

  27. Ending theme propaganda? by Ender77 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I loved the Golden age trilogy but I couldn't help wondering if the ending of transcendence was meant to reflect what is happening in Iraq now and was a form of propaganda. It talked about the golden age was over and how everybody would be drawn into a LONG war where certain liberties would have to be taken away to protect the greater good from the "ENEMY".

    I don't know, maybe its just me but with other scifi entertainment(star trek tv and games, knights of the old republic,etc) having propaganda mixed in I wouldn't be surprised.

    1. Re:Ending theme propaganda? by thesilverbail · · Score: 1

      C'mon. In a review article, any post with this much spoiler in it shouldn't be modded up.

      --
      I have found a truly wonderful proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, but unfortunately this sig is too small to contain it.
    2. Re:Ending theme propaganda? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difficulty with your theory, sir, is twofold: one, my books were written in 1992; two, the author is too haughty to dilute his art with propoganda.

      The parallels between THE GOLDEN AGE and current events appear only where the logic of real events and the logic of fictional events happens to drive toward the same conclusion.

  28. Re:Cool by HappyCitizen · · Score: 1

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but people missinterpreted both of my quotes. My first one, I was asking if it was good. I said that I was a Star Wars Extended Universe fan so anyone who answered would know what types of books I read. Below, I was simply trying to clarify, not be funny. So, lets try again: Has any one else read the series mentioned in the article (i'm not being offtopic), and please consider that I read many stars wars extended universe books in your response.

    --
    http://www.beyourowneviloverlord.tk
    http://www.frozenchickenthrowing.tk
    http://www.killercamel.tk
  29. Gene Wolfe, Book of the New Sun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This series definitely has plenty of good writing and characters to go around. Really, its good from a literary point of view, there's a lot going on in it from the character level on up to the grand scheme of things. Mr. Wolfe is as fond of literary concepts as he is of science fiction premises.

    I have to say, though, a lot of what science fiction is about to me is the gee whiz factor. The genre is about making some changes to the rules of reality and exploring how those changes affect the characters. I enjoy the unexpected twists that come about from taking concepts to their logical conclusions. For instance, if I lived 100 million years from now, I might walk on a beach where the grains of sand are the remains of the cities of ancient civilizations. Anyway, if the gee whiz factor does nothing for you, maybe this isn't your cup of tea!

  30. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!! PLAGIARIZED MY COMMENT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Man. That sucks. There should be a law.

  31. Fantastic Series! by Wire+Tap · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just got to the end of "The Golden Transcendence" and what a marvelous journey this trilogy has been. Hints of influence by authors like Gene Wolfe and David Zindell resound through the series, and a distinct flavor of Wright's background in law shines through in very well-composed ways.

    The hero of this story, a cyberneticly advanced individual named Patheon - many of the citizens of Wright's world use mythological and historical titles - who, in the first book, discovers that there are great portions of his memory - and life! - missing. Creatures from other planets visit, and often challenge, Patheon, tempting him with wealth, threatening him with violence and mind-rape, and informing him of hidden political struggles.

    It is very difficult to say much more about the story without giving away some fundamentals of the story, but it's safe to highlight some of the issues touched on in the series:

    Mortality
    Free Will
    What makes something 'alive'
    Space-colonization
    Love
    The venerable "Captain Kirk" problem - are you still yourself after you teleported? In this story, it was more along the lines of "Who are you after you have been ressurrected?"

    The sereis is a fantastic read, and I reccomend it to anyone who enjoys hard science fiction. While I would not consider this work _hard_ Sci Fi, it goes a bit past medium-soft. It's good stuff!

    --

    Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.

  32. Re:Comfort Food Re:What happened to standalone boo by magarity · · Score: 1

    and forgive the occasional "dud."

    And then there are people who buy the Honor Harrington series...

  33. My eyes! My eyes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    +1, Informative? What kind of idiot moderates without clicking on the links first?

    Parent's a goatse.cx troll, if you haven't already figured it out.

  34. Missing the point: Plagiarized review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You guys who are responding to the parent's comments about "sensefilters" are missing the point. He's posted a piece of text lifted right out of the review (maybe it would help to RTFA, hell, you don't even have to click on anything) along with a link, to point out that this Slashdot review, like several other recent reviews, is plagiarized from Amazon.com.

    1. Re:Missing the point: Plagiarized review by maliabu · · Score: 1

      maybe you're missing the point.

      all the responses so far are responding to the parent's point, which is 'Anti-Spam?'

      did the review, or Amazon.com relate this book to Anti-Spam?

    2. Re:Missing the point: Plagiarized review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only relationship I can see to "anti-spam" is that Slashdot has lately become perpetually flooded with spam, crapflooding, etc. -- for example this review, which is itself ripped off, and then the first "+5 Interesting" comment is copied from the review.

    3. Re:Missing the point: Plagiarized review by blat.info · · Score: 1

      This is just poetic justice, I tell you. But how do you *know* that my comment wasn't first and that someone at Slashdot lifted it and placed it in the article *after* I got +5? Hmm?

  35. Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the mods just chose the best alternative to (-1, Lame)

  36. Re:I liked Heinlen too, when I was 15 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, you actually missed the point of this post...

    Original author claimed Iain M Banks and this writer had stuff in common...

  37. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! Stole my comment!! by kfg · · Score: 1

    .ACMD eht detaloiv evah uoY .msinahcem noitpyrcne na si sdrawkcab gnitirW

    Oh great. So now dyslexia is an illegal circumvention tool.

    I suppose the feds are going to show up at any minute to impound my central nervous system.

    KFG

  38. MOD PARENT UP!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I had the mod priveledges, this would be +5 INTELLIGENT!

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP!!!! by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Thanks, it's too bad it was modded down instead. My default score is two usually.

  39. uhh by nomadic · · Score: 1

    The books are firmly in the space opera genre with a dash of Heinlein libertarianism tossed in for good measure.

    No. I can tell, because I detest Heinlein's works, and I liked the Golden Age.

    In fact, if you consider the supercomputers' control over what they'd allow the populace to do, it was very far from libertarianism. And not coincidentally, a place that far from libertarianism is actually a nice place to live.

  40. Sensefilters = Augmented Reality by songbo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sensefilters sounds suspiciously similar to what Prof. Steve Mann in MIT has been proposing. See http://wearcam.org/

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those that know binary, and those that don't.
  41. RIGHT!! O, no...wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Abilities" at the scale of nations would have to include things like geography, natural resources, and so on. Why not?

    Well...maybe 'not' because the vast majority of first-world nations have a geography that is excellent suited for agriculture, and have huge natural resources (more so then most european countries, anyway).

    Goh...must be somethings else after all...
    The parent poster is completely right: the inequalities that exist between incomes is not dependend on the difference of abilities of people, unless you deem one race is gifted with more abilities then another. Nor can it be explained by differences in location of the countries, because those countries are spread in vastle different locations, some of which have even more resources then 'developed' countries.

    No, if we would be honest with ourselves, it would be rather clear what made the diference: our exploitation of those less powerfull nations.

    But..good try.

    1. Re:RIGHT!! O, no...wait... by M.+Silver · · Score: 1

      Well...maybe 'not' because the vast majority of first-world nations have a geography that is excellent suited for agriculture, and have huge natural resources (more so then most european countries, anyway).

      Right. And if you're going to extend the author's analogy to nations instead of just individuals, you can also consider those "abilities." You know... the "ability to more easily conduct agriculture" and things like that.

      No, if we would be honest with ourselves, it would be rather clear what made the diference: our exploitation of those less powerfull nations.

      Which comes down to the "ability" to exploit those nations.

      Now, it's entirely possible the original author *didn't* mean anything so broad by "ability." But considering that you're trying to argue that he's wrong based on extending to nations what he only said (in the interview, anyhow) about individuals, the least you can do is give him the benefit of the doubt.

      --

      Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
  42. Re:single book please.. Nemesis by Asimov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isaac Asimov made a book called "Nemesis" about earth's impending doom because of a star (red dwarf) that is on a collision course with it, and only a few ppl know about it and leave the solar system.

    Its 1 book, you dont need to know anything prior to read it. Its very very good. Anyone else read it?

  43. Anyone read Star Dragon? Comparison requested. by mbrother · · Score: 1

    OK, this is a little shameless self-promotion, but John Wright's series is among the "also bought" books on amazon.com for my novel STAR DRAGON. I confess I haven't read his serious, although it looks interesting. Has anyone read them and also my novel (also from Tor, Oct 2003) and can compare them? Any similarities in theme, style, substance, etc? I expect I'll get to them, but between my faculty job and my work on the next novel my reading time is limited. Thanks!

    --
    Professor of Astronomy, Author of Spider Star & Star Dragon (Tor)