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United Linux Dead
DesScorp writes "ZDnet has a story about the impending demise of United Linux, with former general manager Paula Hunter stating that 'the legal entity still exists but I turned the lights out'. While a couple of reasons were given for UL's demise, most of the blame was firmly laid on the shoulders of SCO. As a member of group, their lawsuits killed off any real product development. SCO apparently refused to resign from UL, and Hunter said that 'As long as they remained a member, it remained impossible for us to begin new projects'. Which brings up the question, couldn't the other group members have kicked them out?"
come for the naked robots, stay for the zombies
...is like Madonna running a mirror for suprnova.org, isn't it?
Or to put it another way, why would SCO join an organization designed to standardize the way in which their IP rights are violated?
Unless of course they have no IP claims to begin with. Which they don't. And we know that. And so did SCO, at one point in time.
I don't understand why that fact alone doesn't throw this whole case out.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
couldn't the other group members have kicked them out?"
That would depend on the agreements they had signed. It might have just been easier for everyone else to pull out and just reform a different group at a later time.
Novell pulled SUSE out of it already. Was that due to SCO or did they just not want to be part of it anymore?
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
Truly, a masterful side-stepping of the question.
The Army reading list
I live in Utah and we have a little weekly paper calld the Salt Lake City Weekly. This week they had an article on the whole SCO debacle. It can be read here. Not a whole lot on the UL effort but an intereting read into the shennagings going on here. I just was reading it on lunch at work and came back to this.
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
Come on, boys, that trick is as old as the hairpiece on Darl's head.
well, if they are dead, they should open source the code.
oh wait...
I'm pretty sure that 'united' doesn't mean 'backstabbing'... It's about the only thing they could do and keep some shred of dignity for the partner companies...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!
Which only goes to prove the old adage:
"One rotten apple spoils the entire bunch".
No matter where you go... there you are.
Why didn't the other members of UnitedLinux simply form a new, 'identical-except-for-litigating-scum' group.
They could call it "UnitedAgainstSCOLinux"... or maybe just the "NoSCOs Club"?
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
"SCO is bad", now mod me up assholes.
couldn't the other group members have kicked them out?
The agreement as it was written was probably done before anyone had any idea that SCO was going to act in such a bizarre manner.
Since SCO wouldn't leave, this would be about the only way to create a new United Linux without Darl McBride tainting it.
A better adage:
Put a tablespoon of wine in a barrel of shit and you still have a barrel of shit.
Put a tablespoon of shit in a barrel of wine and you have a barrel of shit.
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
Is this a support group for vampire geekheads?
Not to be confused with Linux Dead United, the zombie penguin football team.
So UL died. Financial chaos insues. Just create another distro based on what you learned. I find that Linux distrobutions are successfull based on the research that was done to them. Debian has apt and has official packages controlled and standardized. Redhat pushes ease of use with a corporate twist. SuSE has european nations in its grasp and has a little of column A and a little of column B in it, a well balanced distro you might say. Slackware is the tried and true throw everything in and let the user sort it out "hackers" distro. Though its become a lot more friendly to use and is evolving nicely. United Linux wanted to take all the ideas and somehow work them into one. Thier goal was to make a standard set of packages what would work seamlessly together and be user friendly. They wanted to create a set of rules to follow when adding non-official packages and work on schemes to make packages work together and not break each other be accident. There goals have never been met by any distrobution to date. I still see hope for what they were trying to do. Just move on and do it under a different name. Rework management AKA reorganize and try again. The little distro the could so to speak. /rant off
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
It is now official - Netcraft has confirmed: UnitedLinux is dying
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered UnitedLinux community when
recently IDC confirmed that UnitedLinux accounts for less than a fraction of 1
percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft
survey which plainly states that UnitedLinux has lost more market share, this
news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. UnitedLinux is collapsing
in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in
the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict UnitedLinux's
future. The hand writing is on the wall: UnitedLinux faces a bleak future. In
fact there won't be any future at all for UnitedLinux because UnitedLinux is dying.
Things are looking very bad for UnitedLinux. As many of us are already aware,
UnitedLinux continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of
blood.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
SuSe leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of SuSe. How
many users of Caldera are there? Let's see. The number of SuSe versus
Caldera posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there
are about 7000/5 = 1400 Caldera users. Connectiva posts on Usenet are about
half of the volume of Caldera posts. Therefore there are about 700 users
of Connectiva. A recent article put TurboLinux at about 80 percent of the UnitedLinux
market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 TurboLinux users.
This is consistent with the number of TurboLinux Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of SCO, abysmal sales and so on, TurboLinux
went out of business and was taken over by SCO who sell another
troubled OS. Now SCO is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet
another charnel house.
All major surveys show that UnitedLinux has steadily declined in market share.
UnitedLinux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If
UnitedLinux is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. UnitedLinux
continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this
point in time. For all practical purposes, UnitedLinux is dead.
Fact: UnitedLinux is dead
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
Ah, but America has absorbed Linus, just as it absorbed Albert Einstein, Louis Chevrolet, Werner von Braun and Janos von Neumann.
Linux is American, don'cha know?
All the "3) profit???" stops here.
KFG
MOD PARENT DOWN!! IMPERSONATION!
Look closely at his name! RAY_R_NOND? looks like raymond but spelled rayrnond. See it?
See the FAQ
the title of the SCO website is SCO grows your business. unless of course you rearrange the word unix, put an 'L' in front, and give it away for free.
also found this link - SCO says "Linux hurts US". is this company into sadomasochism?
Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
They just reincarnated as Desktop Linux Working Group. No SCO this time...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I've been involved in a lot of activist and community projects, and the one thing I've learned is that sometimes it's not a bad thing that a project ends.
The worst thing is to stay together when everybody in a bitchy mood and one person's causing trouble and the project really isn't going anywhere.
Usually it's better to quietly end the project, say your farewells, take some time off, and then start new.
Food for thought.
SCO can be blamed for this, but when it comes down to it UL wasn't making any progress for ages before this, it had a big hype then didn't do anything, I think all the partner companies realised it wasn't working, this SCO crap just finish it all off.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
Before there was the SCO Group there was Caldera/SCO and these two groups where very different.
Jan 2000
Jan 2001
Jan 2002
Jan 2003
And of course present
Quack, quack.
"Which brings up the question, couldn't the other group members have kicked them out?"
Probably fear of being sued. You know, SCO and their new lawsuit business model. Probably would have also spun it into something about the others knowing their claims are right or something.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
SCO's Linux reversal isn't the only change, though. SuSE Linux, whose software formed the foundation for a version shared by all four companies, has been acquired by Novell. Along with that acquisition will come an endorsement from IBM, the loudest Linux advocate, in the form of a $50 million investment in Novell.
So you see - there are other things too that matter(ed) here.Based on that, UL very likely had no choice but to shut down.
"The time is always now" - Victor
"we take these actions secure in the knowledge that our system of copyright laws is built on the foundation of the constitution and that our rights will be protected under law. we do so knowing that those who believe 'software should be free' cannot prevail against congress and the ruling of seven supreme court justices who believe that 'the motive of profit is the engine that ensures the progress of science.'"
they may as well call all linux users a bunch of commie reds, recall mccarthy, and get the execution chambers readyTake away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
Oracle had a nice agreement whereby if you had any issue at all that affected the operation of your database, they would troubleshoot it to the end no matter if the cause turned out to be an OS issue; provided that you:
:(
1) Maintained an active Oracle support contract and
2) Maintained an active support contract with one of the UnitedLinux vendors.
They also have that same deal with RedHat. I was hoping to move from AIX to SuSE Enterprise Server later this year for our Oracle DB server, but now I may be forced to go with RedHat.
Does anyone know how this affects the Oracle deal?
-- Cameron
I did not know a war existed between Micro$oft and Linux! Linux will never die as long as we have dedicated programers who take pride in the code they produce and the OSDN in general. If you look at IBM and Novell's earnings as well as Mandrakesoft's you will see a Linux is far from Dead.
It is official; Netcraft confirms: United Linux is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered United Linux community when IDC confirmed that United Linux market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that United Linux has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. United Linux is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be Kreskin to predict United Linux's future. The hand writing is on the wall: United Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for United Linux because United Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for United Linux. As many of us are already aware, United Linux continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
SCO is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time SCO developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: SCO is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
SCO leader Darl states that there are 7000 users of SCO. How many users of TurboLinux are there? Let's see. The number of SCO versus TuboLinux posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 TuboLinux users. Connectiva posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of TuboLinux posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Connectiva. A recent article put SuSE at about 80 percent of the United Linux market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 SuSE users. This is consistent with the number of SuSE Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of SuSE, abysmal sales and so on, SuSE went out of business and was taken over by Novell who sell another troubled OS. Now TurboLinux is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that United Linux has steadily declined in market share. United Linux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If United Linux is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. United Linux continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, United Linux is dead.
Fact: United Linux is dying
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
No, begging the question is:
Let's be positive. We needed a stronger Linux suport group than United Linux
We need a group that promote linux compatible drivers. We need hardware with a "Works with Linux" Tag. We need someone to protect goberment from de FUD, and someone who can promote some kind of open and voluntary standars so that All distributions become closer and closer.
So there must be an agrupation of more Linux vendors, distributions and even firms who have interest in the field of Linux. Not only RedHAT or SUSE but also, IBM, ORACLE, etc... And of course, not only firms: Debian must be represented, etc etc... It will have some kind of strength wouldn't it?
And, last but not least, it should be made so that even if SCO or M$ were members it could continue existing with some annoying visitors in the mettings.
Let's hope it is a beggining forempowement of linux users
---
A fire from the ash shall be woken
A ligth from the shadow shall spring
Reforged be the blade that was broken
The Crownless again shall be king ( LOTR )
It'll work, I promise. And there will be people who want to support you.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Hey Bruce,
So here's my question - okay - correct me if I'm wrong here - so we have the whole issue of KDE not being put into User Linux because KDE is not as commercial friendly as GTK. You can release a program under GTK and not open the source. People seem to rally behind that principle.
Yet, whenever some important software project is ported or achieved, people scream for the source. I'm not asking whether your choice to exclude KDE is right or wrong - rather, aren't the reasons behind GTK going against the spirit of the community in general? Businesses might release closed code under GTK, but they will be assailed from the community to open it. Do you think this will be beneficial to either the business in question or community? To me, it seems bound for conflict.
Another question - why did you choose the name User Linux when the target audience is clearly for business users. I was initially irked that KDE wasn't included but when I read your underlying principles for the distribution, I see your point. The cause of conflict - for me - was the use of the word "user". When I think User Linux - I think Joe Six Pack Linux. I think a lot people get confused with that as well.
In either case, Linux evangelism - whether it be KDE focused or GNOME focused is good for everyone. Now if only we can create a decent installer for the desktop without use of the command line or compiler then I'd kiss windows goodbye for good.
I came real close to installing united linux when redhat discontinued their regular non-AS line. Then I found out SCO was part of united linux, I went with some other distro instead.
We are America. Finland is irrelevant. Iraq is irrelevant. We will add their technological distinction to our own. They will be assimilated.
The idea that SCO killed UnitedLinux is about as valid a statement as the idea that it really was a cooperative group. That, too, is about as valid a statement as the idea that UL was more than SuSE's half-finished linux-like product kicked over the fence to an unsuspecting and powerless clientele, whose only choice was to beat it into something they could now sell.
.. the best product that no one's ever seen.
UL was a bad idea from the start, because one of those companies just doesn't play well with others. We all gave up trying, a long time ago, really, because of the arrogance. UL were just looking for an excuse to break up the whole thing, because it was a pointless exercise from the start.
Thankfully, Conectiva still has their own linux product, still maintained and untainted by these baroque four-year-old kludges. When RH9 is forgotten, I'll definitely be giving Conectiva a good, hard look. They seem to like technology they didn't invent themselves, seem to work very well with other companies, and really have a deent product
And they moved beyond RPM v3 sometime in 2000.
If my own experience with the UL bunch gives me nothing more, at least I will have learne denough about Conectiva to know they're a really grat company, and I'll be thankful for the painfully bad project that is UL for at least the opportunity to learn about Conectiva I would never otherwise have had.
(No, I'm not signing my name. Litigious bastards)
Way tooooo much D&D, I saw that as the United Linux Undead. Although slightly interested, I don't think I would qualify, not yet at least....
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
Considering your trying to make a 'standard' that has GNOME as it's only GUI, for how long would that hold true?
;) ) But your group isn't open to everyone. Only GNOME distros and users. How can you possibly view that as not locking out a large segment of the user base? Expectally outside the US?
I'm not saying this as some KDE zealot. Truth be told, I've not installed the desktop in at least a year. My enviroment of choice is ROX. There isn't a distro alive that includes it as default. (Yet
I'm not saying I don't see why you do it, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to do it, but you have to call a spade a spade. KDE users are locked out.
OK, this is a great opportunity for other linux groups to offer support and immigration options to latin american and african users.
:-)
Go forth and multiply
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Now, if we can only kill off the LSB, we stand a chance of getting rid of RPM. Mmm... an "RPM dead" headline on Slashdot, wouldn't that be a lovely thing to see?
(No, I'm not trolling, I'm serious.)
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
While it's definately SCO's fault that UL as it originally was conceived failed, it was IBM's insistance that SuSE not leave UL and reform with the other two UL companies that put the final kybosh on the whole idea.
Maybe that would be a better name for the new group.
(tip of the hat to Gary Larson)
Linux is not comfortable being sold or consolidated....Let it run free and remain free.
Anyone that has tried to make money selling or sueing Linux has fallen victim to the geek equivelent of being on the cover of SI. A fast and painful death to all who try to pen her in or shut her down.
Due yourself a favor and dont sell out to "the man". Install Debian or Slackware and come back to reality.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Ironically, no. SCO have a proprietary interest in the group, and so cannot be kicked out unless the group has a constitution that provides for this. It doesn't really matter that SCO are doing their best to destroy the value of that interest.
On the other hand, there was nothing to stop them all quitting and starting a new organisation with the same goals.
Seriously, the entire idea of UL was shaky, and shady..
We are better off with out it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?