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US Govt Makes Times New Roman 14 Official Font

pollux03 writes "According to ABC news, 'In an internal memorandum distributed on Wednesday, the department declared "Courier New 12" - the font and size decreed for US diplomatic documents for years - to be obsolete and unacceptable after February 1. "In response to many requests and with a view to making our written work easier to read, we are moving to a new standard font: 'Times New Roman 14'," said the memorandum. ' The report goes on to cite a few exceptions to the rule including official telegraphs."

142 of 811 comments (clear)

  1. Exceptions by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Funny

    There are only three exceptions to the draconian new typographical rules: telegrams, treaty materials prepared by the State Department's legal affairs office and documents drawn up for the president's signature, it said.

    As those will all be done in the MS Comic Font.

    1. Re:Exceptions by Drathus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget about the "Super Secret" communications.

      'Encrypted "Super Secret" communications will be done with Wingdings 16'

    2. Re:Exceptions by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget about the "Super Secret" communications. 'Encrypted "Super Secret" communications will be done with Wingdings 16'

      This message is in violation of the DMCA for circumventing encryption techniques.

    3. Re:Exceptions by Ilgaz · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, the private communications are made with wingdings+rot13

      Oh wait

    4. Re:Exceptions by dasmegabyte · · Score: 4, Funny

      And all documents from the Department of Homeland Security should be formatted in 16 point "Spooky" font. Preferrably in red.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    5. Re:Exceptions by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 5, Funny
      I think the color for DHS will be different depending on the document importance:

      Regular - Green

      Limited Distribution - Blue

      Post-It Notes - Yellow

      Secret - Orange

      Top Secret - Red

    6. Re:Exceptions by GreggBert · · Score: 2, Funny
      No, the private communications are made with wingdings+rot13...

      rot13, twice (for good measure) !

      --


      If you don't understand anything I post, please accept that I ate paste as a small boy...
  2. Damn. by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Funny

    I had my money on 20 point Dingbat.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    1. Re:Damn. by buckinm · · Score: 5, Funny

      Only if Dean gets elected.

      --
      This isn't any ordinary darkness. It's advanced darkness.
    2. Re:Damn. by Tassach · · Score: 5, Funny

      The 20 point dingbat, with any luck, will be voted out of office this November.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  3. Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by The+One+KEA · · Score: 3, Informative

    Instead of actually doing something useful, they sit around and argue over the right font to use.

    Dear God.

    --
    SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
    1. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by badasscat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Instead of actually doing something useful, they sit around and argue over the right font to use.

      And we sit around arguing over their arguments. Which is worse?

    2. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Wateshay · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a jobs program, to help out all of the unemployed fontographers, put out of work by the dot-com bust.

      --

      "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."

    3. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by HMA2000 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Be thankful. It is a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for. :)

    4. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Taxpayers are not paying for us to argue.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    5. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by quantaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Instead of actually doing something useful, they sit around and argue over the right font to use.

      Yeah, imagine making sure everyone is using a standard font people can read so they can be assured that people will have it on their computer and can view the documents properly!

      --
      I stole this Sig
    6. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The government uses a lot of OCR - more than you would believe. Standardizing on one exact font description makes it far easier to build an OCR engine optimized for speed and accuracy, which in turn saves time and taxpayer dollars. It doesn't seem that unreasonable.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by kippy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This was a memo, not a $3 million case study. Don't overreact just because it has to do with the government. I'll bet you anything this cost about an hour of someone's time and the cost of emailing their workers and handing out some paper copies.

      If you want to start bitching about where your tax money is going, do some research first.

    8. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by pointbeing · · Score: 5, Informative
      I work for the federal government. Since not every federal employee can be trusted not to use a magenta scribble font for official correspondence, there needs to be a standard.

      Sad, but true.

      Also, most large corporations have a standard font for official correspondence.

      --
      we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
      -- anais nin
    9. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since some slashdotters (including myself) work at public university IT departments, and others work for NASA, the taxpayers do indeed pay for us to argue.

    10. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by b17bmbr · · Score: 2, Funny

      actually, i am typing this on the school's computer in my classroom, so, technically, yes, taxpayers are paying me to argue!!

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    11. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by k98sven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government uses a lot of OCR - more than you would believe. Standardizing on one exact font description makes it far easier to build an OCR engine optimized for speed and accuracy, which in turn saves time and taxpayer dollars.

      Wait a second.. are you saying that the government is spending lots of time OCRing their own computer documents??

      Now that is a waste of time and money!

    12. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by lobsterGun · · Score: 5, Informative

      When I was in the military we were required to use a font called OCR-A. It was optimised for the OCR readers they had at the time (the late 80's early 90's). I was nearly 100% accurate when OCR'd - pretty good when you consider that we were OCRing text that was being produced by typewriters that had been in near constant use for 20 years.

      You can see an example of OCR-a it here.

    13. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Wateshay · · Score: 3, Funny

      Interesting!?!?!?

      It's not Interesting. It was a freakin' joke!! Geez...

      Sorry for replying to my own post...

      --

      "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."

    14. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by joebok · · Score: 3, Funny

      When my dad was in the Navy there was a cost-cutting initiative to reduce wasted paper. Somebody noticed that there was a lot of blank space around the edges of typed text and decided that the best way to reduce these margins was to use 8 x 10 1/2 inch paper.

      It was abandoned when they figured out the special sized paper was more expensive. My dad still has a ream of the stuff.

    15. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by happyfrogcow · · Score: 2, Funny

      The big question is, What font did the memo use?

    16. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by BlowChunx · · Score: 2, Funny

      It was probably a bunch of government employees doing the moderation...

    17. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I agree with you in principle, but you have to understand that the one thing the US government is tremendously experienced with is moving around massive volumes of paper. They've spent 200 years building a huge infrastructure around the idea of paper trails.

      Now, in the last 10-15 years it's become reasonable to use electronic means to move around large amounts of data between normal sites - that is, those not custom-built around mainframe systems like the original ARPAnet. The government seems to be making strides toward adapting to the new technology, but you have to understand that those giant traditional paper distribution networks can't just be replaced overnight. I'm sure that there are a lot of instances where, at this exact moment in time, it's actually cheaper and more efficient for office "A" to transmit information to office "B" using paper as a carrier medium.

      Remember, "Rome" wasn't built in a day (Heh! An on-topic pun! Ain't I the clever one?). It'll take a while to remodel it to suit the current technology.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    18. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The government seems to be making strides toward adapting to the new technology

      I'm sure.

      If they're like most corporations in the United States, they'll adopt some official records retention policy that prescribes periodic deletion of old emails and electronic documents.

      The Netscape trial illustrated Microsoft's mistake in keeping old emails around.

      Monica Lewinsky's old emails likewise proved to be an embarrassment for the administration.

      And given Dick Cheney's penchant for secrecy, I'm sure that a lot of historically interesting and relevant emails and documents will be going through an e-shredder in short order.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    19. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by gryphokk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      TNR is still a bad font for OCR. Serifs are the greatest obstacle to clean OCR reads, especially when the letters run together, as they tend to do in only one generation of photocopying.

      At 14 point, however, hoepfully it won't be a problem.

      If OCR were a consideration, they should have picked Arial, or some other sans-serif font. (I would recommend Helvetica, but it's not included on the default windows install.)

      But no letters with serifs (feet), please!

      --
      And you, madam, are very ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.
    20. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've never had to talk with the customer's PHB about some program spec yet, have you?

      The tech stuff is easy. They just want the program to do everything _and_ the kitchen sink.

      But what really causes weeks or months of meetings is

      - "should the logo in the corner be exactly 120 pixels or 121 pixels?... no, wait, 119 pixels is just right."

      - Then the fonts which _must_ be 7 pixel Sevenet (or some other non-standard font which is guaranteed not to even be installed on someone's computer, when they point their browser at the site. Bonus points if it's a pain to read.)

      - And it all _must_ comply with some nighmarish corporate scheme that wasn't designed for the net to start with. Actual examples from actual projects I've worked on, include cyan on blue, and light orange on orange-ish yellow. Literally. I'm not making it up.

      - And all the text _must_ always be limited into a 491 pixel wide area, to look the same on everyone's screen as it does on the PHB's laptop, with whatever default non-maximized position his IE remained set as. (God forbid that someone who uses 1600x1200 be actually able to use all that area to read the text.)

      And so on and so forth. It's the stuff managers' dreams are made of. I'm guessing that if you stopped them from spending weeks debating the exact font size and exact logo size and hue, you'd suck all the fun out of management.

      So, well, given that the government's job _is_ to manage... now why am I not surprised? ;)

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    21. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by FaasNat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dammit! You're right. We should also get paid for this.

      --
      There's never enough when you have too little
    22. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by ThosLives · · Score: 2, Informative

      Aramaic, yes. Latin, no. The other predominant language was Greek.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    23. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, I'm suggesting that if a guy brings a printed document (say, a permit or tax document) into another government office, and you need a digitized version, it's far easier to OCR it than hunt down the original. The government employs a LOT of people, and the fewer people you have to tap to get a specific task done, the more efficient that task becomes. It is easier for citizens to get in and get out of offices if a particular clerk is empowered to do everything they need to do. Even if, occasionally, work is getting done twice.

      Besides, what happens when a file gets corrupt or lost? The price you pay for the efficiency of digital representation is that bits are more delicate than letters. That's why we keep hard copies, after all.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    24. Re:Yeah, nice use of taxdollars. by C10H14N2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is nothing absurd about setting documentation standards. Half of all policies and procedures sound silly until you imagine an organization running without them. Suddenly your legislation turns up on perfumed pink antique laid with MS Script type instead of Times Roman on white bond.

  4. in further news, by way2trivial · · Score: 2, Funny

    the government declared- thumbtwiddling is now the offical activity to perform when you cannot think of useless directives.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  5. 14 point? by ed.han · · Score: 5, Interesting

    why so big? isn't 10 the default standard for most written communication?

    ed

    1. Re:14 point? by SILIZIUMM · · Score: 4, Funny

      Old guys don't see very well anymore.

    2. Re:14 point? by MarkGriz · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Re:14 point? why so big? isn't 10 the default standard for most written communication?"

      Most likely aggressive lobbying by the pulp and paper industry.

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
    3. Re:14 point? by hankwang · · Score: 4, Informative
      12 points = 1 pica = 1/6 of an inch height, which I have often seen ignored.

      The point size of a font refers to the height of the ancient lead type, where every letter is sitting on a rectangular piece of lead. Some fonts are designed to never reach the borders of that rectangle, i.e. a parenthesis "(" in a 12-point font can actually be a bit less than 12 pt high. Only if a "(" is more than the specified 12pt, then something is really wrong.

      Furthermore, 12 points are NOT the same as 1/6 inch. There are actually 72.27 (American printer's) points in an inch, but someday, Adobe decided that for digital typesetting, a round number such as 72 points per inch was easier. (The number 72.27 pt/in is easy to remember, but that is pure coincidence. See point units.)

    4. Re:14 point? by jsebrech · · Score: 2, Funny

      why so big? isn't 10 the default standard for most written communication?

      I find it kind of ironic that the only people using times new roman 14 will be government employees and high school students trying to fill at least two pages with text.

  6. Slow news day? by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not to be petty or anything, but just how slow of a news day does it have to be when a font change is considered newsworthy?

    --
    In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
  7. Times New Roman? Yuck. by adamvjackson · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would think Verdana or Tahoma would be a much better solution. Times New Roman is SOOO Windows 3.1! :)

    1. Re:Times New Roman? Yuck. by Ilgaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Verdana and Tahoma are screen fonts. Georgia, Times, Arial are print fonts.

    2. Re:Times New Roman? Yuck. by kiwimate · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, but not true. Both Verdan and Tahoma are sans serif fonts, whereas Times New Roman is a serif font. A very common guideline for readability is that body text should use a serif font; sans serif fonts are better for titles.

    3. Re:Times New Roman? Yuck. by akgoel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Serif fonts offer increased readability for native English speakers. People who have picked up English as a second language do better with sans serif fonts.

  8. How appropriate by jxs2151 · · Score: 5, Funny
    "...are moving to a new standard font: 'Times New Roman..."

    How appropriate since we are apparently the New Rome .

  9. The real reason by ArcticPuppy · · Score: 5, Funny

    The word "Oil" is often misintepreted as "Weapons of Mass Destruction" when written in Courier New 12.

    1. Re:The real reason by Zeinfeld · · Score: 5, Funny
      The word "Oil" is often misintepreted as "Weapons of Mass Destruction" when written in Courier New 12.

      Ever wondered why the Bushies did not use the name 'Operation Iraqi Liberation'?

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
  10. Copyright? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who owns the copyright to Times New Roman? Are there any licensing issues involved in this decision?

    1. Re:Copyright? by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Informative

      Times New Roman is owned by Monotype Corporation.

      There's a ``gentleman's agreement'' w/ Linotype Corporation which allows them to use / produce ``Times'' (For the backstory on this, look up an article published in the APHA's journal and Walter Tracy's wonderful book _Letters of Credit_).

      However, URW did a clone of Times (Nimbus Serif, I believe it's provided as), which they've since made freely available (see the link to this at www.tug.org) and which can be easily used in free systems such as TeX, and is readily installable w/ XFree86 so that one may use it w/ Linux, Gnome, KDE &c.

      For those who're curious on the specifics of typeface copyright &c., www.typeright.org is a good starting point.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  11. US State Department by mekkab · · Score: 4, Informative

    US State Department

    I guess RTFA is too much to ask on a slow news day.

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    1. Re:US State Department by mekkab · · Score: 2, Funny

      You expect information from the headline.

      wait no, scratch that;

      You read the headline.

      God bless slashdot.

      Actually, I don't read the headline, NOR the actual article. I just come to post some smarmy tripe.

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
  12. Interesting... by CrazyTalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That they are going from a fixed-width font (courier) to a variable-width font (Times). Columns of numbers, etc. won't line up as nice with Times, especially if the people creating the documents don't know what they are doing.

    1. Re:Interesting... by mysticgoat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, the change from fixed to proportional strikes me as the significant thing.

      It means that government employees who have to use a word processor are now going to have to learn how to do tab stops. And (Horrors!) maybe even tables. Many of these astute public servants-- secretaries to heads of departments and so forth-- have been abusing the spacebar for 10+ years.

      This is going to disrupt the work of a lot of staff. They'll be spending their time learning about left justified tabs, right justified tabs, and the strange behaviors of the mysterious decimal point tab. And some will be forced to learn how to insert rows and columns in tables, and even perhaps how to merge adjacent cells in a table. This is going to be very stressfull in some areas, and will cause some early retirements and probably some medical retirements. I ain't kidding. I've worked with a goodly cross section of these astute public servants, and I know about the limitations that are behind the bright smiles.

      The March Monthly Report On The SW Antarctic Penguin Census And Pollen Count will have to be rewritten from scratch rather than simply copying last month's file and changing the numbers. All businesses that rely on such reports from the US State Department should be advised that these may be late, due to unexpected technical problems with the computers.

      Noted in passing: IIRC, both Courier New and Times New Roman were introduced at the same time, as two of the three core fonts of TrueType, about 1991, as part of Widows 3.1 (maybe another geezer can confirm this). Both are native Windows fonts. (The third core font was Arial.)

      There is nothing particularly newer or more modern about TNR vs CN. Both are computer implementations of fonts that were developed to meet limitations of earlier technologies. Courier is a very open font that does not gum up quickly on the electric typewriters of the 1960s. Times is a complex font designed to retain readability at small sizes with newsprint stock and linotype machines, where smearing, dropouts, and voids frequently damaged the letterforms.

      It is always good to see that the US government is improving itself, and moving ahead with the Times.
      </rant>

  13. Sign of the Beast by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Funny
    Of course, in it's efforts to create it's counterfeit kingdom here on earth, the Beast has given further evidence of his attempt to reconstitute the Holy Roman Empire, using the Times New Roman font.

    No wonder the 5 evil acolytes selected him.

  14. Telegrams? by illuminatedwax · · Score: 5, Funny
    There are only three exceptions to the draconian new typographical rules: telegrams

    Telegrams?! They still use telegrams? If so, where can I still send one from? I'm sure a telegram to a Senator might get more attention than a letter and certainly more than an email. Plus sending telegrams sounds cool.

    --Stephen

    --
    Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
  15. This just in. by jghiloni · · Score: 5, Funny

    In related news, the US Government changes the official resolution of all desktops to 640x480, 256 colors.

    1. Re:This just in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oddly enough, most government employees that I've seen tend to leave their monitors at the default resolution....640x480, 16 bit, @60 Hz. They then complain that they can't see enough, and are given 21" monitors...that they continue to run at 640x480 @60 Hz...

  16. Language? by DaHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and yet we still do not have an official language!

  17. Obligatory Welcome by pc-0x90 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I, for one, welcome our new roman time overlords

  18. More Modern by pete-classic · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article: "a 'more modern' font."

    I'm sure glad they put "more modern" in quotes, as Times New Roman was introduced in 1932!

    -Peter

    1. Re:More Modern by tbmaddux · · Score: 2, Informative
      'm sure glad they put "more modern" in quotes, a Times New Roman was introduced in 1932!
      Also, from the same page, Courier was first designed as an IBM typewriter face. IBM started as Computing-Tabulating-Recording-Company in 1911 and its name was changed to IBM in 1924. So it is possible that Courier predates Times New Roman. However, Adrian Frutiger redrew that font for IBM selectric typewriters, thus creating Courier New in 1961.
      --
      Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
  19. Its a shame.. by naelurec · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They should have used an open license font like Bitstream Vera. This would have given them the fixed spaced "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono" for tabular data, "Bitstream Vera Serif" for paragraph and "Bitstream Vera Sans" for headers, captions, etc. Simply beautiful and open. :)

    1. Re:Its a shame.. by line.at.infinity · · Score: 2, Informative
      They should have used an open license font like Bitstream Vera. This would have given them the fixed spaced "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono" for tabular data, "Bitstream Vera Serif" for paragraph and "Bitstream Vera Sans" for headers, captions, etc. Simply beautiful and open. :)
      Ahh, simply beautiful and open... But are typography copyrightable? They sure seem to be free most of the time. Let's see here:
      In the United States, font design is not copyrightable, but it is patentable if novel enough. Stone and Lucida are the only two patented typefaces, and this may not hold up in court.

      Europe used to have the same "can't copyright typefaces" laws as the United States, but Germany (in 1981) and the UK (in 1989) have passed laws making typeface designs copyrightable. The UK law is even retroactive (!), so designs produced before 1989 are also copyrighted, if the copyrights wouldn't have already expired (the German one is not retroactive).

      --Wikipedia

      So what's the big deal with the copyright notice at the bottom of BitStream Vera's page?
  20. I prefer this waste of taxpayer dollars by the_skywise · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So long as they're wasting their time picking out new fonts, they're not writing new laws restricting freedoms, increasing taxes or wasting money on new boondoggle programs.

  21. Re:Telegrams? by jfengel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Believe it or not, Western Union.com. Mind you, it costs fifteen bucks. But it definitely makes an impact.

  22. Relax, guys by Theatetus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of big organizations make decisions like this. The State Dep't wants documents coming from it to have a similar look and feel. Just consider it a social CSS.

    I subcontracted for State for a while, and this is actually a step in the right direction. They have 2 print shops, one for GS and one for FS, and people have lately been printing some really stupid looking reports and circulars. It's kind of a shame that they chose 14 pt TNR, since that pretty much keeps you from being able to make a small, glossy report like people like nowadays, but some consistency would be a good thing.

    Also, this only seems to apply to printed materials. Electronic publications can stay in whatever font you want, which is good since I hate seriffed fonts on a screen.

    --
    All's true that is mistrusted
  23. Students Rejoice! by phathead296 · · Score: 2, Funny

    In other news, students around the country rejoice. Now, they can use US Governement official font to turn a two page paper into three pages.

  24. Re:Won't somebody please think of the trees!!! by AnonymousComrade · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not to mention the vast amount of disk space that would be saved by using a smaller font!

  25. numbers are monowidth by default ws.Re:Interesting by WillAdams · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, the typically available Times New Roman has lining figures which are an ``en-space'' wide.

    If one types _just_ numbers things line up as if one were using a monospaced font. The problem is the default space (I checked TimesNewRomanPS YMMV w/ other versions) is half an en-space, so that even if one sets up the typesetting to not vary the space, one has to double up on the spaces. Naturally, people should just use tabs properly, but.....

    Microsoft has focused their OpenType work on linguistics, not typesetting capabilities, so the above should hold even for Windows 2000 and later (naturally it doesn't hold if someone is using Adobe InDesign and sets the option for old-style figures and proportional numbers).

    For those who're curious, I touch on some of this sort of thing in some of my didactic typography samples available from my website URL.

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  26. They didn't choose a font! by Quila · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They chose the Times New Roman typeface at 14 point, consisting of the fonts regular, italic, bold and bold italic.

    A typeface could technically be a font if you only have one version of that typeface = the one font in it.

  27. one downside to the change by r5t8i6y3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    moving from a fixed width/monospaced font to a variable spaced font will make it more difficult for simpler forms of communication to interface officially with government entities.

    increasing complexity typically reduces reliability.

  28. Re:Telegrams? by WillAdams · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Same place one has always gone, Western Union &c.

    The problem is, the service is so little in demand in the US that when one sends it, they phone the message in initially, then send the printed copy by mail --- not quite the same effect. YMMV in other countries where the telecommunications system isn't so saturating.

    William
    (who convinced his brother-in-law to spend a small fortune to send the traditional congratulatory telegram to his father-in-law --- at least he kept it)

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  29. Re:Telegrams? by tommck · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seems a little obsolescent.

    Or even obsolete! ;)

    --
    ---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
  30. Re:Most readable font..according to Google by fhmiv · · Score: 2, Informative
    Not to pick nits, but Times New Roman is a "serif" font, which means it has the little horizontal bars at the tops and bottoms of the letters. "Sans serif" fonts lack those little bars, which makes sense if you think about the name.

    Serif fonts have been found to be more readable in printed material.

  31. Re:Telegrams? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can think of something you can send your Congresscritter from WesternUnion.com that would have almost certainly have a greater impact than a telegram.

    Convenient that it lets you send both!

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  32. Re:Telegrams? by Chagatai · · Score: 4, Funny
    Telegrams would also have more of an impact because of the use of "STOP" to terminate lines of messages.

    Dear Senator. STOP.
    Please consider the following things that should be changed. STOP.
    -The RIAA. STOP.
    -Microsoft. STOP.
    -The war in Iraq. STOP.
    -The Patriot Act. STOP. No, stop. STOP. I mean seriously, stop it now. STOP.

    --
    --Chag
  33. And in Related News... by fuzzybunny · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...the department of homeland security recently adopted Zapf Dingbats as its official font.

    Should clear up their communiques a bit.

    --
    Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
  34. Not Garamond? by MuParadigm · · Score: 5, Funny


    Times New Roman instead Garamond? What were those aesthetically clueless dingbats thinking?

    That's it. I've completely lost faith in our government, and political processes in general. If they can't ascertain Garamond's clear superiority to TNR, well, they'll just have to impeached, that's all.

    And sent for serious rehabilitation. And re-training, with those methods used for de-programming cult victims.

    I mean, seriously, TNR over Garamond? I ask you...

    1. Re:Not Garamond? by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, Garamond isn't readily available to all systems the government is likely to be purchasing / using, so the choice of Times New Roman (a Windows core font, and available on all Macs which have Internet Explorer installed) makes good fiscal sense.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    2. Re:Not Garamond? by MuParadigm · · Score: 3, Funny


      People have to *read* these documents! Subjecting them to the ugliness, the aesthetic horror, that is Times New Roman, is either depravity or at the very least, an incidence of putting pennies before dollars. What will the medical costs be of subjecting the world to Times New Roman simply to save a few cents in producing government documents?

      This is an outrage, I tell you! Think of the children!

    3. Re:Not Garamond? by MuParadigm · · Score: 2, Funny


      I blame the French. If only Bill had renamed Garamond to something less French sounding, "George" maybe, or "W", then you *know* it would be the standard font.

      It's the simple tactic of putting putting petty international rivalries over self-interest, over simple aesthetic need, that we see time and time again from this government.

      I'm sick it, sick of it I say.

      Oh god, Times New Roman... I just... I can't...

      ARRRRRGGGGHHHH!

      (slurping sounds of a man being sucked inot an evil vortex...)

    4. Re:Not Garamond? by jrockway · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why not computer modern, then? If you've ever read a document written in Computer Modern, you won't be using anything else anytime soon :)

      I don't think people even bother to read LaTeX'd documents, they're so beautiful that you just look at it and drool.

      (For a while I had the window titles and mozilla using CM, but it's HEAVILY optimized for print, so I stopped using it for that)

      --
      My other car is first.
    5. Re:Not Garamond? by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Well, it's not so much Computer Modern which is beautiful as it is the TeX layout algorithms which yield beauty. TeX could make an eviction notice pretty.

      Why anyone uses anything besides LaTeX to prepare documents is beyond me. Complete control of glyph composition; astoundingly beautiful and readable styles; PostScript rendering; BibTeX: it's truly the most magnificent thing going.

    6. Re:Not Garamond? by pmdboi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interestingly enough, Times New Roman was first used in the Times of London and probably drawn by Brits Victor Lardent and Stanley Morison, so its origins are decidedly non-American. However, there's been evidence unearthed that Times New Roman was actually originally drawn by American yacht designer Starling Burgess.

    7. Re:Not Garamond? by CmputrAce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree completely. Garamond is the Font that has lasted with dignity through ages. It is the font of the illuminated, the cogniscenti.

      Why, it's my favorite font!

    8. Re:Not Garamond? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      Times New Roman is a Monotype design, Times Roman is a Linotype design. They're pretty similar, but there are subtle differences-- the most striking difference is that there's an extra serif on the Times Roman "5".

      Arial, however, is noticeably different. The cross stroke on the Arial "Q" is curved, but the Helvetica Q has a straight cross stroke.

  35. 10 Point Falisy by Genady · · Score: 5, Informative

    See here's the problem. 10 point at 96 DPI and 10 point at 72 DPI *SHOULD* be the same thing, point does *NOT* equal pixel, that's a common fallicy propogated by Microsoft. Points are Points, there are 72 of them in an inch. Points are NOT pixels!

    So to answer your question. No, 12 point is the accepted standard for most communication. Unfortunately since the majority of computers in the world render points incorrectly '10 point' has become a defacto, and typographically incorrect, standard.

    --


    What if it is just turtles all the way down?
    1. Re:10 Point Falisy by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is not Microsoft's problem. If you did the minor detail of checking you would see that the Win32 API for selecting a font size takes the size in *points*. The same call takes a negative number to indicate pixels, which appears to be an addition at the last minute in an attempt to allow the DPI to change, but that appears to not have worked due to too many programs using the point interface.

      It is true they assumme the screen is 96 dpi so they multiply this by 96/72 to get the number of pixels. There is an internal setting for the screen DPI but changing it will screw up most programs because all the other calls are in pixels.

      The exact same bug exists on X, with the addition that screens are (correctly?) set to all kinds of different DPI values. Like GDI32, all other graphics are measured in pixels, which means if your screen is set to a DPI different than the original programmer had, your display is probably messed up. This is why your KDE display suddenly comes up with tiny fonts when you change the X driver. If this DPI was forced to 96 (or 100 which is popular on X) it would solve these problems the same as Windows does.

      I have no idea why X, Microsoft, and you all seem to think points are important, especially when every other graphics call measures stuff in pixels. It really would not be hard to have a DPI report from the device and let the program pick the pixel size to match, since they have to do this anyway to draw a 1" square or any other fixed-size graphic.

  36. Re:Telegrams? by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the State Department. You know, embassies and stuff? Telegrams are a good basic, fast, communication system.

    A diplomat may be at the mercy of the local communication system, and I know of countries where modems are outlawed. (They mess up the cheap bugs the local law enforcement has on all the phones. Not that the phones work...) If you need something to go faster than a letter, a telegram may be your only choice.

    --
    'Sensible' is a curse word.
  37. Government Forcasts 30% Increase in Paper Use by stuffduff · · Score: 3, Insightful
    George W. Bush is expected to announce shortly the Timber Reclamation Act of 2004 in which all wood framed houses will be demolished and the lumber reclaimed and recycled to produce "Goverment Bond" in an effort to avoid a predicted paper shortfall for government documents.

    "I want to make it perfectly clear to every one in the world that just because I'm shortsighted does not mean that I can afford not to be misudnerstood."

    --
    "Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
  38. You do know what this means? by azaris · · Score: 3, Funny

    No more ASCII art in official US government memos.

  39. Times new roman is not best choice by Ixlr8 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A fixed width font like courier (new) is horrible to read when printed on paper. It's great for code or such things, not for actual documents.

    A font like Times New Roman was developped specifically for newspapers. It has a serif, which improves readabilty by guiding your eyes acros the lines. It has a relatively high size of such letters as a,e,o,m,n when compared to l,k,j,g. (Sorry I'm not familiar with the correct terms in english) This is done to effectively enlarge the appearance and thus readability. It has large thick vs. thin contrasts. All this is done to improve readabilty in a newspaper: narrow collumn width, small size.
    It is even designed to compensate (or use) the effect of overprint: a small amount of ink allways flows out, making the thinnest parts of characters less thin.
    When printed on a laserprinter, the font actually becomes a bit to contrast rich in thick/thin, because of the lack of overprint.

    Times New Roman is far from the best choice in my opinion. It's outdated (not really suitable for laserprinting). It's not meant to be used as 13 pt font in documents with long lines.

    A lot of people underestimate or are even completely ignorant to the influence of document layout: font, size, pagemargins. If you value the readability it's worth it to invest some time in the subject.

    --
    -- Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
  40. Re:Your tax dollars at work. by MCZapf · · Score: 2, Funny
    Would you rather have your State Department send out documents to other nations with the old-fashioned-looking Courier font, or, worse yet, no standard font at all? It's nice to appear to be organized, at least. On the other hand, we'll look like a country of blind people sending out 14pt documents to everyone.

    BTW, as others have pointed out, this is not a government-wide standard, just a State Department one.

  41. One thing that they forgot to mention... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is that all US government reports now have to have to be accompanied by "the correct cover sheet". Oh, and all White House press conferences must have at least "fifteen pieces of flair".

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:One thing that they forgot to mention... by Werelock · · Score: 2, Funny

      You see, the thing is, you forgot your TPS report. You did get the memo that we're using those now, right? I'll just send it to you again just to make sure you understand.

  42. i was ahead of my time, when i worked for DoD!! by pezpunk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "In response to many requests and with a view to making our written work easier to read, we are moving to a new standard font: 'Times New Roman 14'," said the memorandum.

    this is pretty amazing. back 13 years ago in 1991 i was working for the Army Materiel Command Headquarters and i repeatedly got a "talking to" from my bosses for using Times instead of Courier in official correspondence to other departments. i then went to the head of AMC HQ and suggested a change in policy to allow Times New Roman to also be acceptable, since we were now in the computer age, and not limited to typewriters and daisy-wheel printers, and since Times New Roman was demonstrably easier to read, and more attractive. He took my request to the Chief of Staff of the Army, who shot it down.

    i was ahead of my time!

    --
    i could live a little longer in this prison
    1. Re:i was ahead of my time, when i worked for DoD!! by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      How did he respond to your suggestion that lowercase letters at the beginning of sentences and for the pronoun "I" should be acceptable?

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    2. Re:i was ahead of my time, when i worked for DoD!! by basingwerk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Years ago, I imposed the use of courier fixed font on official flight procedures for a satellite mission, to make it easy to line things up in the days before word processors had table features. This made it quicker for the SATCONs to find the right action when anomalies happened, so I don't necessarily agree that Times is more readable. My decision stood for some years until a new clerk 'translated' the procedures into a proportional font and formatted the tables 'properly'. I suspect this was a make-work activity, for which the government is famous. By then, I couldn't care less, although I would be most peeved if someone translated my FORTRAN source code into Times!

      --
      I stole this .sig
  43. Other important news: by hoggoth · · Score: 2, Funny

    Today the U.S. Government has issued these equally important directives:

    1) All federal employees must tie their shoelaces using a right-over-left Ian knot.

    2) Handwritten ampersands must be of the official '&' variety and not the 'sloppy plus' variety.

    3) Toilet paper must be folded, not crumpled.

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  44. Dubya by hellfire · · Score: 4, Funny

    The 20 point dingbat is actually running the country, so maybe you should collect on your bet.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:Dubya by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Funny

      It isn't smart to talk about Karl Rove like that!

  45. What about... by HungWeiLo · · Score: 2, Funny

    What about the official font for college freshmen? TNR 14-point is fine when you sort of know something about the topic of the paper you're writing, but TNR 20-point will happily fill the 3-page requirement of the paper.

    --
    There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
  46. Re:Resistance is futile. by byolinux · · Score: 3, Funny

    In 12pt Courier New, War Was Beginning...

    What happen!!

    Someone set us up the Times!!

    What!!

    We get bigger!!

    New Font Turn on!!

    It's Huge!!

    How are you gentlemen!!
    All your document are belong to us!!
    You have no chance to survive, make your change!!

  47. As a person with poor eyesight.. by haggar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (and before I get trolled: no, I can't correct it with glasses)

    I have had problems reading small font text for at least 10 years now, and the problem is, of course, getting worse. But I have learned a lot, about the needs of visually impaired people. One of these things is that Verdana is probably the ideal font for us. This fact was discussed in depth on the nystagmus newsgroup, and the good thing is, we all reached a consensus about Verdana.

    I am surprised so few companies use it. Actually, none as far as I know. I am surprised mostly because I believe that a nice, readable font is pleasant even for the healthy eye, it's more ergonomic.

    --
    Sigged!
    1. Re:As a person with poor eyesight.. by notchcode · · Score: 3, Informative
      Verdana is a great face, esp. for use on-screen, as it was designed for that use by Matthew Carter in 1996. I am not a fan of it in print, because so many other great, easily-accessible faces are already available that are so similar. Take Franklin Gothic, for example.

      For lots of text-on-paper reading, serifed faces are easier on the eyes, so I can see the arguement for Times. Times, though, was intended for newspaper use (hence the name), not long reports that run in wide columns...AS I've said elsewhere, I think something softer and rounder, like Bembo would have been a better choice. FWIW, I specify Verdana in all my site designs, because it's the best web-specific face out there. A lot of my designer geek pals do, too.

  48. blind gov't by oohp · · Score: 2, Funny

    I always said governments were blind and this futher proves it. I could read Times New Roman 14 from space.

  49. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Isn't [Wingdings] the crypto that SCO used in their code comparisons?

    No, that was Symbol, which any bilingual English/Greek speaker can read fluently. So now, under the DMCA and Patriot Act, are all residents of Greece who know English "terrorists"?

  50. Re:Number in Times New Roman by greed · · Score: 2
    Those columns of numbers align quite well, because the designers of this font made all the numbers of equal width.

    Except in the case of a mixture of text and numbers. A lot of people don't use tab at all, let alone properly, and just space over.

  51. Fonts Matter by yintercept · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Font selection and standardization is a big deal. People read through the process of pattern recognition. Using standard fonts substantially increases the speed at which people read and their comprehension of what they read.

    Times New Roman is not a Microsoft v. the world thing. The font was developed by The Times in 1932. It is a relatively compact font. It was used by papers as they were able to get a large number of words per page and was easy to read.

    A standardized font improves quality. It makes documents uniform, etc..

    Microsoft included Times New Roman because it was a common, standardized font, not the other way around.

    1. Re:Fonts Matter by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But Times New Roman 14 is specifically a MS Word font!!! Note that courier is so old it's generic...whereas TNR is copyrighted. Now nobody can send Offical docs without MS licensing approving. It's one of those small things that has profound repercussions in the world of lawyers.

  52. Readability? by julesh · · Score: 2, Informative

    I find this interesting.

    Ask anyone in the publishing industry, and chances are they will tell you that the most readable font available is Courier (in any standard variety) 12pt Regular.

    I.e., precisely the font they are moving away from, on the grounds of readability.

    I wonder if the person who made this choice is someone who has to read a lot of documents, or just somebody who thinks a proportional font looks nicer?

    1. Re:Readability? by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Courier is preferred by people who have to read large volumes of text, such as those who work in the publishing industry, because they find it easier to read.

      Proportional fonts look nicer, which is why they are used in areas where visual presentation is important, such as consumer goods.

    2. Re:Readability? by TKinias · · Score: 2, Informative

      scripsit julesh:

      Courier is preferred by people who have to read large volumes of text, such as those who work in the publishing industry, because they find it easier to read.

      Proportional fonts look nicer, which is why they are used in areas where visual presentation is important, such as consumer goods.

      I honestly can't say what they're smoking over at the university press if they prefer Courier... but I can quite categorically say that when I have a stack of three hundred pages of student papers to mark, they sure as fsck better be in a clean, serif font. Of course, getting them in Computer Modern is a bit too much to ask, but anything in the Times/Garamond/Georgia/Palatino camp is fine. Courier, though -- oy, after five pages I'm going crosseyed and my head hurts. Even Arial isn't as bad, although for long documents it is pretty hard on the eyes, too.

      --
      In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
  53. Re:Standard points or Microsoft points? by WillAdams · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, no, a point isn't / wasn't always 1/72nd of an inch.

    That was set by John Warnock (you may know him better as the founder of Adobe Systems) when he wrote a little program called PostScript. He chose to do this for efficiency's sake since he knew all fonts would have to be re-created for use in his system.

    Prior to that there were two different types of points, English points (72.27 to an inch) and Cicero / Didot points (some funny number to a meter).

    So, when one specs points in publishing, one should always ascertain whether one means the DTP point (72 to an inch), or Printer's points or something else.

    The original Mac OS set the screen dpi to be 72 pixels per inch, but Apple hasn't made a screen which matches that for a long while AFAIK. Windows sets the default logical screen dpi to 96 by default, but allows one to change it. Unfortunately a lot of programs are Mac ports which are hard-wired to 72 dpi, so it's actually better to set to that.

    For those who need more on this, I'd suggest www.schaedler-rulers.com --- also look up Victor Eijkhout's spiffy TeX ruler (should be on CTAN).

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  54. You *work*? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...we work all day...

    10 posts on Monday, 4 so far today... You work? I want your job...

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  55. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by tiger99 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Much as I would like to, even I can't actually find any way to blame SCO for this font change. I can't blame Sir Bill either. But, I think it is stupid, because 14 point is a bit too big and so wastes paper, not that the US government ever cared about waste.....

    In any case, there are more visually pleasing fonts, and I see no reason why official documents should not look good. Some organisations use their own custom font, I would have thought that the US government could afford to pay for a real expert to come up with a good one, which might also be more readable by the visually challenged.

  56. Fresh off Google by akruppa · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nice history on Times Roman and Times New Roman here

    Alex

    --
    Heisenberg may have been here
  57. Could the linked article have a worse headline? by kirkjobsluder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "US bans time-honored typeface"

    What the heck?

    1: The memo only applies to standardizing internal documentation for one department.

    2: Courier is "time-honored" only in that it was the ubiquitous typeface for single-font devices like typewriters and ascii printers, as well as degrading nicely to dot matrix. Monospace is a pain to read in extended printed documents.

    3: The article calls the new rules draconian, in spite of the fact that previously, Courier New 12 was mandated for all official documents!

  58. Linux Equivalent of Times New Roman? by poopie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're all missing the point here - Linux as I see it doesn't have the exact font "Times New Roman" as part of the default install - (at least OpenOffice 1.1 on Fedora Core 1 shows now Times Roman font...)

    So, what does this edict from the government mean for Linux desktop adoption in the Government?

  59. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by mikerich · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Much as I would like to, even I can't actually find any way to blame SCO for this font change. I can't blame Sir Bill either. But, I think it is stupid, because 14 point is a bit too big and so wastes paper, not that the US government ever cared about waste.....

    And just think of the endless committees, sub-committees, working groups, focus groups, font lobbyists, R and D, marketing and strategising people that were involved. There were probably millions spent on deciding whether they should go for the relaxed 12 point, or the more dynamic and assertive 'hell we're a superpower' 14 point approach.

    I hear they're working on rebranding the bald eagle for the 21st Century, apparently the existing bird just isn't - well - [makes feeble hand gestures] swooping enough for today's time-poor, internet-rich, xboxed, click-to-continue, frappacino generation.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

  60. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by micromoog · · Score: 2, Informative
    But, I think it is stupid, because 14 point is a bit too big and so wastes paper, not that the US government ever cared about waste.....

    If you'll RTFA, you'll find "The new font 'takes up almost exactly the same area on the page as Courier New 12, while offering a crisper, cleaner, more modern look'". In fact, it takes slightly less paper, and anyone with half a brain can tell you it's a lot more readable. Add to that that it comes standard with Windows, and there's really no argument against it.

  61. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by jovlinger · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'd expect Times 14 to put about as much text as Courier 12 on the same page: Courier is monospace, while Times is quite compact.

    Of course, I was hoping for a nice font; calson, newspaper gothic, or somesuch. Or my personal favorite: bembo.

    I think fonts are some of the most important and pervasive branding statements you can make: think of apple and their use of garamond condensed.

  62. ...updating the gov's look to 1985. by notchcode · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I guess it is only appropriate that the government waited until the 21st century to abandon a typeface meant to look like a typewriter, in favor of a typeface that is almost synonymous with Microsoft Word.

    The choice of 14-point type, too, is interesting: the standard is usually 12 points, but I guess the point size increase is meant to appeal to baby boomers' aging eyes.

    For my money, I would have preferred a slightly less stuffy serifed face, like Bembo, or even Goudy. No less official-looking, but rounder and more accessible.

    OK, I'd actually have preferred something even more modern, like a sans-serif font such as the emininently readable Gill Sans, but that would be asking too much of the Fed.

  63. It's a CONSPIRACY, Itell you, a CONSPIRACY... by qtp · · Score: 2, Funny

    See, it all makes sense now! "New Times Roman".

    "New Times" == "Changing Times" == "New World Order"

    And what kind of "Order"? Roman law, the law of Empire, the end of the Republic, the... the...

    Well, at least they didn't choose Comic Sans. I'd hate to think what kind of world that font would be ushering in.

    --
    Read, L
  64. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 4, Informative

    Test it out, loud mouth.

    Open a new Word (or other word processor of choice) document and paste in multiple pages of text and format it all as Courier New 12 pt. Print it out.

    Now convert it all to Times New Roman 14 pt and print it out. How many pages compared to Courier? The same or less, I'll bet you find.

    Courier New is a monospaced font, you can fit a fixed number of characters per line, whether they are all i's or m's.

    Times New Roman is properly kerned so that you can fit more characters per line as each character takes up only as much space as it needs.

    It sounds like 14 pt would take up more space, and if you stay within one typestyle you would be correct, but Courier New is not space efficient so you actually do gain back more space and make it easier to read large blocks of text.

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
  65. Re:BAN SERIF FONTS ALTOGETHER by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2

    You're thinking of onscreen use, where you are absolutely right, due to poor screen resolution. I still cannot figure out why web browsers *still* ship by default displaying many fonts as serif by default. It's simply stupid in terms ofusability.

    From what I can tell from other analysis here, the new rule applies to printed documents, where serif fonts really are easier to read for large chunks of text.

  66. Bigger font = bigger report by failedlogic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Too justify their jobs and the amount of work they do, beaurocrats can probably increase the font to 15 point without much notice. This makes the document longer, ensuring job security by showing how much work they do. Consultants, pay attention here! You can make more money, with less work.

    What high school, college or university student hasn't heard of this trick before?

    1. Re:Bigger font = bigger report by catdevnull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I used fixed space fonts like courier to pad my papers in college. Times New Roman 14 will probably be just slightly smaller than the mono-space Courier New 12.

      Try it in a Word document. I filled a page with Time's New Roman 14 and converted it to Courier New 12. Courier takes up slightly more space (adding 6 lines).

      --

      I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
  67. Homeland Font Set 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    16 point "Spooky" font

    Naa... it's all in 14-point NSA Redacted Font, with random unredacted words just to peak your curiousity.

    We have XXXX XXX alert X XXXX a XXXXXXXX XXX Laden XXXXXXX XX transgendered XXX XXXXX X to XXXXX XXX XXXX giraffes. Advise XXX XXXXX XX XXXXXX the XXXXX XXXX and XXXXXXXX.

  68. Gawd, those meetings had to be fun by Sand_Man · · Score: 2, Funny

    My mind goes numb just thinking of a conference room full of Gov't types arguing the merits of their "pet" fonts.

    Be bringing the BIG coffee cup to that one.

    "..... and next Bob will be doing a PowerPoint presentation on the exciting history of Lucinda 12, go ahead Bob......"

    [head smacks table]

  69. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by sg3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > there are more visually pleasing fonts, and I see no reason
    > why official documents should not look good.

    Yes, there are more pleasing fonts, but don't let untalented people come any where close to them. Give them Times New Roman and delete all the other fonts from their computers.

    At my company, Futura is our corporate branded sans serif, with New Century Schoolbook used for serif work. However, only about 10% of the corporate population can deal with this. We've got people who produce hundreds of pages of Futura text (where its sans serif nature makes the document an eyestrain to read). We've got people who can't tell the difference between Futura, MS Comic Sans, and Arial. We've got people who will mix Futura and Times New Roman in the same freaking sentence. I once saw a marketing person (who should have known better) try to use Zapf Chancery (an abomination) in all caps all over a presentation for a trade show, before he was smacked upside the head.

    I can't imagine our Federal government is any better. So, if settling on Times New Roman is the way to prevent font atrocities, then so be it.

    Sheesh. The only way I can keep from exploding like this at work is to read Kibo's pages on this.

    --
    Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
  70. More politics ... by pherris · · Score: 2, Funny

    If Steve Jobs was President is would've been chicago.

    --
    "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  71. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by Atryn · · Score: 2
    Except that our (or "my," dunno where you are from) country doesn't need to be wasting time and money to find which font should be standardized -- and you'll be sure that plenty of stupid crap will happen because of it. Contractors will be ignored or whatever because their proposals, while %33 less costly, were not in this exact font. Documents will have to be rewritten or reprinted because of this new "standard." It's just friggin stupid.
    Oh no, you are completely missing the point. Without this standardization more "time and money" would be wasted because every government entity and committee and RFP would all have to decide their own requirements. Having a single government-wide standard saves all of this effort.

    Now, I truly lament for all of the government employed ASCII artists who will no longer have a fixed-width font to work with.
    --
    Come play Moral Decay!
  72. The ink lobbyists by Zevets · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think you just realized the real motive. The ink lobby has "donated to the president". Everyone knows how expensive ink cartridges are(or laser). Open Open Office (pun intended) and type something. You will see that the end number of pages is the same, but that Times New Roman 14 uses wider parts of letters (total width same including spacing). You will need to open it up to see what I mean. This will cost the governement millions paying for these extra cartridges. Fear the Ink Lobby!

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    Mod Wisely.

  73. When I was in college by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Funny
    I used Courier to add that extra dead space on those 20 page papers that were really about 18 pages long, and I always used the excuse, "Well, its good enough for the government, its good enough for you!".

    Now why did I go and enroll for a Masters program next fall again?

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  74. In other news... by BillyBlaze · · Score: 2, Funny
    In other news, although negotiations will still be conducted around a round table, the ratio of the its circumference to its diameter will be exactly 3.

    And for classified documents, Wingdings.

    Sorry.

  75. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by Ulven · · Score: 2, Informative

    From what I heard, the serifs are meant to lead your eyes along the text.

    People with dyslexia find the letters in words get jumbled up, so anything that serves to seperate the letters is of help. Hence the preference for sans serif.

  76. fucking aweful title... US doesn't "Ban" anything by kaltkalt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An administrative office in the US gov't decided to use a different font. Not only is this not news, but for them to frame it as "US Bans old font" is downright misleading and dispicable. Pretty much every office I've ever worked for has had a standard font. The Dept. of State decided to change fonts--and to a much more eye-pleasing one, I might add. Nobody is going to jail for using Courier Font in the USA. Not even a fine. This is basically just a "TPS Report" saying how they're gonna do the cover sheets from now on... new font. No big fucking deal. The USA has not banned any fonts. If you work for the Dept of State, start using Times new Roman. Shoulda been using it years ago anyway. Of course, if the title of the story had been "State Department Chooses New Font" the editors would have laughed the reporter out of the office... so it had to be more dramatic. "US bans..." ... yeh we've banned lots of stupid things that shouldn't be banned, but fonts are not yet one of them.

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    Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
  77. Re:Once againe, SCO set the standard... by skotte · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ok, here's an argument.

    I fFind it easier to read, easier to visually digest, easier to scan through and attain the main ideas presented by the text;

    There's always the same number of characters, and therefore words. the even spacing of courier makes all text organized in even columns, which enables it's length of material to be judged quickly.

    Courier (monospaced) fFonts are handy because tables can be built easily, fForms can be written simply. it's very easy to determine how much space is required when you know how many letters are expected.

    Machines like monospacing because it is very easy to differentiate letters which have a tendency to look alike. OCR happens easier, fFax machines tend not to blur as much.

    Transcribers and archivists like monospacing because it is very easy to read quickly. similar reasons already presented, it is easy to quickly scan, read, and differintiate. (i call out this item in specific because government is riddled with transcribers and archivists)

    Courier is easier to read on an elementary level. remember, government is fFor everyone. disabled, poor vision, low literacy, young and old, all people must be able to read the documents in question.

  78. My boss can't see by bobalu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    so I use the same font. It's freaking HUGE.

    But maybe GWB and company will notice when they say "this intelligence is unreliable".

    --
    The revolution will NOT be televised.