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TVI to Sue Over MS Autoplay Feature
scubacuda links to this Infoworld article, which reads in part "TVI charges Microsoft's autoplay feature infringes on four of its U.S. patents. TV Interactive Data Corp. (TVI) of Los Gatos, California, claims that Microsoft infringes on four of its U.S. patents, three entitled 'host device equipped with means for starting a process in response to detecting insertion of a storage media' and one entitled 'method for starting up a process automatically on insertion of a storage media into a host device.", writing "I hope no one has a patent on the shift key, because that's what I hit when I insert a CD. (That is, when I haven't already edited the registry)" Wouldn't automount / autofs fall under the same shadow?
The Mac has a 'detect on auto insert' for as long as it's had a floppy drive! (IIRC, the Amiga did too.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
I had 4DOS batch files do things when the floppy drive was accessed.
Bootable floppies.
Take that!
wouldn't the Mac be considered prior art since it has been auto responding for quite a while
Patents are supposed to be "novel" and unique. I don't see anything special about auto playing or mounting media when it is inserted.
How about your car CD player, home console, digital camera, DVD player, etc etc etc? What's next, someone claiming a patent on reading magnetic or optical storage?
SmashTech - No smashing of tech involved
The patent numbers are 5,597,307; 5,795,156; 6,249,863 and 6,418,532.
Is it plausible that towards the end of this lawsuit flinging, people will eventually realize that by Occom's (sp incorect, sorry) razor, code will trend towards the most logical and efficient, and that for two people working on the same thing, the code will maybe, possibally, be identical?
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
My Amiga would detect when a floppy was inserted and start automaticaly and this was back in 1988.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
slashdot needs an asinine tag, like fark.
this is ridiculous.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
I really would love to see a Slashdot interview with someone in the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office that can explain the process and how things like this happen. They probably cannot comment on a specific case like this, but typically we get two of these ridiculous patent claims a week mentioned on slashdot.
Are they overworked and understaffed and forced to just rubberstamp things?
Are they untrained in technology to recognize things like this?
Are they in need of being hit over the head with a clue by four?
Something is seriously wrong at the USPTO (now more then ever seemingly).
The Commodore Amiga had this from atleast the Amiga 500, possibly earlier and that was in 1986.
IIRC, Autoplay has been shipped in MS operating systems since 1996. TVI has been sitting on this for eight years. Which means, of course, that if the statute of limitations hasn't expired, they will be severely limited in the remedies they are allowed to seek. It's not like this escaped their attention for 8 years.
Of course, IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that even if TVI wins the case, they won't be able to collect damages for past infringement because they clearly did not demonstrate "due diligence" in protecting their patent. They might end up with a compulsory license agreement; or to avoid infringement, Microsoft OS's may end up simply popping up a dialog box ("Would you like to play this CD?") when a disk is inserted.
Yeah, I'd put TVI at net loss on this one. Their lawyers are going to make more money than they will.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
is that it's growing among companies. Companies litigating the little guy out of business over patents is relatively straightforward.
Hopefully when enough 800, 1200 and 1600 pound gorillas start beating up on each other then there will be some reform. (Hopefully)
(Okay, they just output analog stuff from tape, but they do have microcontrollers, and some can even digitize the signal eg. for better pause and slow motion image quality.)
Automount and autofs trigger filesystem mounts on directory traversals, not on media insertion.
Maybe you were thinking about vold or some other similar project.
A method of applying for vague patents on simple concepts (rather than inventions) and using those patents to hinder a business competitor or extort money from patent violators.
...about these recent patent cases is I find myself on the side of Microsoft.. yuck! I need to shower!
-- Is it a right to remain ignorant? -- Calvin
Evidently the new idea is that even the product your suing shouldn't be considered prior art. The first patent, 5,597,307, was filed in May 1995. The last Beta of Windows 95 was in March 1995 and the Microsoft DRG people were talking about it in 1994 (Auto-play was evangelized to ISVs - "Mr ISV you need to make sure that your application uses Auto-play"). What it looks like here is that the current patent strategy is to wait until someone releases a product then patent the features that aren't covered. Hopefully this is yet another nail in the stuipidity of patent issuing.
"...detecting insertion of a storage media..."
I suspect it's only a matter of time until someone draws up a patent claim of the nature:
Patent 3,012,238,021...(ad infinitum) --- A method of inserting and pumping a large tubular or cylindrical item into a foes rectum, with the assistance of well studied lawyers...
Just watch, man, I'm telling the day is well nigh!
Wouldn't automount / autofs fall under the same shadow?
No, autofs/ automount automatically mount media (be that an NFS share or whatever) when they detect it is needed (so the process is demand driven rather than media driven).
Perhaps you're thinking of supermount
"Linux is a serious competitor"
- Steve Ballmer, Chief Executive Microsoft Corp.
My 8-Track player would automatically start playing music upon insertion of the audio storage media. I guess that either qualifies as prior art, or 70's electronic manufacturers better start ponying up their licensing fees.
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I did a quick search on the patent numbers in the Patent Office database. The earliest patents was filed in November 1995, and others were filed in 1999 and 2001. Strangely, the wording on all of them seemed to be very similar. (5,597,307; 5,795,156; 6,249,863 and 6,418,532)
November 1995 was around the time Windows 95 was released IIRC. It almost seems opportunistic. Maybe the patent holder quickly came up with a patent after seeing Win95, and filed it hoping that with a long enough gap he would be able to sue for patent infringement.
Cheers
Hollywood: The place good stories go to die.
prior art...
a man and a women have intercourse. data is transfered from the man to the woman. womans host process upon recieving data begins the process of creating life. details left out for as excercise for the student
yada yada.
However, in compensation for your cooperation, you will be allowed to keep 19 trinkets.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
By suing M$, we will get a huge company's resources (M$) fighting this; surely this will add case law against rediculous software patents!
With any luck, this will be a step in the right direction.
Seems every lawyer I meet these days is into IP law and living in downtown SF, I meet quite a few every week. Most of these lawyers also tells me with a very satisfied smile on their face what a complete and utter scam it all is. None of them want to see it changed. Hell, I can't blame them, it's like one big swollen tit from which to feed.
And no, it's not cases like this that will cause anything to change. For that will need to be done by tax paying citizens taking up torches and pitchforks and decending upon Washington in an orgy of blood lust. Then maybe we might see Congress decide to "review" the patent application process.
Actually, Windows (and DOS) always assumes that a disk is inserted whenever the drive is mounted. It does check to be sure that it's the SAME disk, and it only does this on an access attempt. The only hardware that can autodetect mounting of a floppy disk is the Mac, and it's done it since 1984.
Here are the dates on the patents:
5,597,307: January 28, 1997 (filed May 11, 1995)
5,795,156: August 18, 1998 (filed November 1, 1995)
6,249,863: June 19, 2001 (filed May 3, 1999)
6,418,532: July 9, 2002 (filed March 22, 2001)
Also, here's the date on the Microsoft Autorun patent:
6,366,966: April 2, 2002 (filed December 13, 1994)
So, while three of the TVI patents are OLDER than the Autorun patent, the Autorun patent was filed six months earlier than the first TVI patent.
So does my first (1982?) VCR. If the record tab is removed, then the VCR goes to play. This is a standard feature with almost all VCRs today....
Most shredders accept storage media and begin processing automatically upon insertion. Vague patents sure do fire people up with 'prior art' brainstorming.
Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform
I've used toasters (fancy ones not in my house) that'll automatically start toastin when you insert stuff into em, this whole patenting stuff that's been happening for years thing is silly.
Even sticking my hoohoo nilly into my wifes cha cha causes a reaction. Two boys so far to prove it.
5,795,156 is a 1995 filed patent claiming to have invented using a hardware based "output lead" on a peripheral in a computer to detect media. I a, confused here. Assuming they were not developing a computer from scratch(and had never seen a removable media before 1995). I am not sure how they can patent a feature of components they did not develop themselves.
6,249,863 is a claim modified from the above patent of checking for a specific file (ie. like reading a VCD or IO.SYS, COMMAND.COM as in old MSDOS) to make sure the correct or specific media is inserted.
6,418,532 filed in 2001, claims to have invented the play button.
The USPTO is not mandated to verify the novelty of patents. However, patent law must be changed so that the burden of prior art falls on plaintiff in these cases(ie. pay for third party patent researchers).
I would be ashamed to consider myself the inventor of these. They are obviously wanting a small payoff from MS. IANAL
Additionally, TVI charges that Microsoft patent 6,366,966, entitled "method and system for automatically running a program" interferes with the TVI patents as it covers a TVI invention.
Funny, that patent was filed on December 13, 1994.
The earliest of the TVI patents was filed on May 11, 1995. Now maybe their "invention" was developed prior to MS's patent application.
I just find it funny that, on one hand, they'll be trying to use their products as prior art, while at the same time hoping nobody else's products are used against them...
Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, ybt bss abj. Tb bhgfvqr. Syl n xvgr.
The patents and dates are:
LaserDiscs were the first optical disc storage media, invented in the late 1960's by Philips. The compact disc was developed from this technology in 1980. The LD players were first available on the market in 1978, and first demonstrated in 1972. These players automatically played the video on the storage media, so this has been around for at least 30 years. It's also in CD players mentioned in earlier posts, which came just a little later. I often wonder if the employees of the US Patent Office came here, very recently, from another planet. That might explain why they have no clue about prior inventions.
1)Is a CD Rom "Storage Media" if it is read only?
2)What about a toilet that 'knows' to flush automatically when I insert 'media'?
3)My trash compactor will start up when I close the door, but only if there is a bag in it. Isn't this miracle of modern science 'prior art', thus invalidating that patent?
People keep saying that it is too much work for the patent office to check every patent for prior art, so why not just put it up on a website somewhere saying so-and-so is claiming such-and-such and then if anyone has already done that they say so, and the patent is thrown out. They have similar things for planing permission on new buildings and suchlike, and it works fine. Of course, it does rely on people checking this website regularly, but I expect big companies would be able to pay someone to check the relevent subjects once a week or so.
You don't always have to edit the registry. Sometimes its a simple point and click job. Details are here.
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still think unix automounting FS's predates all of this. When a NFS system is initialized my system detects the mounted media and mounts it for me without any user interference or action. But I do remember the MAC chunking away on the floppy upon insertion as well. IBM Mainframe machines required the controller to let the machine know new media or devices had been attached as far back as 3081's, based on my admittedly flawed memory...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Heck, wouldn't starting to play the pre-recorded tape when I insert it into my old VHS VCR also fit the discription? I've had VCRs that do that for 20 years.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Stupid patents.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Does my toaster qualify as prior art? It's from the 70s, but it's smart enough to "start a process" (I.E. toasting) whenever I insert bread. My toaster is a fancy one (well, by 1970s standards), where I don't have to press down a lever to start it toasting.
I suppose the question is, does bread qualify as a storage media?
Fortunately my toaster toasts floppies and CDs equally well (although they are not nearly as tasty).
The worst part is that these patents keep being passed, over and over.. we need some technical people in the patent offices, not temps making $7 an hour.
No, we need to ban software patents. Software patents have done absolutely nothing for innovation. Everyone getting sued is not someone who saw the idea and said "Hey! Great idea! I think I'll integrate that with my product." They've all been developers who come up with the idea independently, and then years (and years) later the company who was successful in marketing the product gets sued. All it has done is increase the amount of patent barratry.
And software is already protected by an insane amount of IP laws anyway. Not only is it protected for 90 years by copyright (if owned by a corp.) but trade secret law, and still for some unfathomable reason, you can patent it as well.
Oh well. Sucks to be us, I guess.
Slashdot posters aren't exactly on top of USPTO related news.
Congress is already reviewing the patent process via HR 1561 being voted on today?
United States Patent and Trademark Fee Modernization Act of 2003 is important as it allows for inventors to submit their own searches from an outside source, such as the european patent office or a private search firm.
On a side note, tax payers don't pay patent examiners. The USPTO is a fully fee funded agency.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
This is getting insane. It's sad that the whole world seems to revolve around blame and accusations rather than actually DOING or MAKING something.
Someone should really tell Nintendo and Sony! Hell, Nintendo has been violating this patent for decades!
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
If microsoft wouldn't pay licensing fees for a patent which was clearly legitimate, why would they pay out for one as dubious as this one?
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
I'm fairly sure the IBM mainframe I used back in 1975 would auto-load and execute a deck of punched cards if you just dumped them into the input hopper.
Oh - wait...they're suing Microsoft. Ah. In that case:
Those evil Microsoft guys - always stealing other people's technology. Bastards!
www.sjbaker.org
You're missing this line from the patent"
This application is a division of application Ser. No. 08/269,492, filed Jul. 1, 1994.
Which means TVI's filings predate Microsoft's (but IANAL)
"For that will need to be done by tax paying citizens taking up torches and pitchforks and decending upon Washington in an orgy of blood lust. Then maybe we might see Congress decide to "review" the patent application process."
That won't happen. For the average citizen to revolt against Congress, some severe problem must exist that directly and adversely affects the citizen.
Patent problems only affect inventors, not consumers. The United States predominately consists of consumers who are not directly affected by patents one way or the other. Hence they don't care one bit about patent problems.
If you sat them down and explained to them, perhaps in terms even a child could understand, they would shrug their shoulders and wonder what the big deal is. The vast majority are completely uncaring about what they perceive to be not their problem. Don't count on them to even understand, much less care.
Method in which DNA data is accessed by means of a read head
glancing at that the first time I thought it said "red head."
The original patent is invalid because it interferes with my own previous patent. I have whimsically called my own patent "cause and effect", which describes the process where when something is done, something else happens. This patent has been recently strengthened by the scientific works of Stephen Hawking, which not only clarifies my patent, but describes exactly when, where, and how exceptions to the process described may occur. To protect my patent, I am bypassing the lawyers and proceeding directly to locusts and plague.
--god
I dont think they're refering to the autoplay in Win9x that runs a specified exe file on insert of a CD-Rom. What I think they're refering to is the new autoplay in Windows XP that does different things depending on the type of media inserted... a disc full of photos and it starts a slideshow, a disc full of MP3s and it adds them to a playlist. If you read some of the patents that are linked here, you'll see that that is the basic premise they patented, the idea of autoplay depending of the type of files contained in the media. Just my two cents.
that auto-plays tapes when they're inserted. Something tells me this suit won't last very long.
In... let me see... 1982? I dealt with a PDP-11/23 running RSX-11-M-PLUS which autostarted backups and things when you inserted media (e.g. 1600BPI magtape into a Cypher F880(?) tape drive). We also had monstrous great two megabyte removable hard disks the size of a sombrero, and the system would auto-start things when the correct one of those was inserted. It had been doing these things for many years before I arrived on the scene.
A local Fight'o'net BBS operator I know, back in the same era, had a process auto-start when you inserted a tape cartridge (snail-mailed from the 'states) full of downloadables in your '286.
So they're just being SCOlets, pump-n-dump barratrous assholes. It seems to be trendy these days.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
May 3 1999 - 6,249,863
March 22 2001 - 6,418,532
June 30 1995 - 5,711,672
The top three are "Host device equipped with means for starting a process in response to detecting insertion of a storage media," and the bottom is "Method for automatically starting execution and ending execution of a process in a host device based on insertion and removal of a storage media into the host device."
Considering that the preview version of Windows 95, which included autoplay features, shipped before June 30 1995, it's safe to say Microsoft has prior art in this case. (Not that Microsoft has the only prior art; Amiga and Apple have both been pointed out.) This case is like myself patenting the idea of a typewriter, then beginning litigation against Underwood and Royal.
*****
Dear Mary,
I yearn for you tragically,
A.T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
It was called the Saddam virus (and now we finally 'got him' ;-)
c atalog/a miga/html/saddamor.htm
See:
http://agn-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/
It would slightly corrupt the disk, in order to trick the AmigaOS into starting the disk-validator, which itself was infected. Very clever trick, as it didn't require running a program or booting from a disk.