Motorola A768 Phone Loaded With Open Source

US cell phones by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2004-02-11 08:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why are we in the U.S. always the last to get new cellular toys?

Because you have several competing, incompatible cellular networks, when the rest of the world seems to have enough sense to agree on GSM. GSM is an easier, and denser market to conquer. The US market comes second, when something GSM is proven to work well commercially.

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"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash

Re:US cell phones by Jotaigna · 2004-02-11 08:31 · Score: 1, Insightful

what about third world countries? only rich people here have access to the latest technology, because imported cellphones come so overpriced noone else can afford them. Still on the other hand in Chile are more mobile phones around than regular lines, despite the fact we use TDMA for some companies and CDMA for others.

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"The quality of life is inversely proportional to the number of keys on your keyring."
Re:US cell phones by DAldredge · 2004-02-11 08:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

And because our POTS system doesn't charge per minute and doesn't suck as much as it does in most other countries.
Re:US cell phones by el-spectre · 2004-02-11 08:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

Heh... no, the point is that we (in the US) have GSM, as well as several other competing techs. It doesn't make as much economic sense to start here.

Europe is ahead of the US in certain fields, cellular tech being one of them. It's just a fact, not an insult.

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"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
Re:US cell phones by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 08:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually, many European countries have a FAR more modern POTS system than the US. Technically, that is. So, don't get me started on how persons are charged in the US for RECEIVING phone calls.
Re:US cell phones by bluGill · 2004-02-11 08:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oh, please, what difference does it make what protocol is used? Once you have the silicon designed it is just a "library" you plug into. Sure if you are a small cell phone designer you might not bother to create silicon for some of the other US standards, but that is no excuse for not at least designing a US GSM version. (Not when you already have 900Mhz (or was it 800?)and 1800Mhz phone to design.
Or haven't hardware engineers learned the value of well designed interfaces like us software people have. GSM will not be the only standard for long, 3g systems are coming out, and they are closer to the US systems than GSM. Nobody in their right mind knowing that would design a cell phone that they couldn't move to a different protocol.
Re:US cell phones by O · 2004-02-11 08:49 · Score: 1

Um, we're not charged for receiving calls. On cell phones, yes, but not on POTS, which was the topic at hand.

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1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 -- Mathematics is the Language of Nature.
Re:US cell phones by colnago · 2004-02-11 08:55 · Score: 1

We also have a more litigous society and infrastructure. If manufacturers can iron out defects elsewhere we may see the technology reach our shores eventually.
Re:US cell phones by critter_hunter · 2004-02-11 08:59 · Score: 1

GSM is more expensive to setup for a given territory than CDMA, which explains why it wasn't widely adopted in the US and Canada, where there's a lot more area to cover. Companies that offer GSM around here (Quebec & Ontario) usually offer digital service in heavily populated areas as well as major highways, and offer analog only service everywhere else.

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Karma: Could be worse (could be raining)
Re:US cell phones by skitz0 · 2004-02-11 09:06 · Score: 1, Interesting

Its acctualy a good thing we get them last. For the most part cellphones are bug ridden POS's when they first hit the market and since most cell phone producers make it hard to flash the firmware in the US (compared to the rest of the world where you can walk into a service center and have it done!) it really is a good thing. Ive worked in the cellular telecom industry for many years and usually picked up the latest and greatest as soon as it hit the employee rec site, even then they sometimes had problems.
Re:US cell phones by DAldredge · 2004-02-11 09:17 · Score: 1

We are not charged for getting calls on our Plain Old Telephone System (POTS). You are thinking of how our Cell Networks work. Another reason why GSM and other cell nets are more prevalent in developing countires is there is less wire than can be stolen.
Re:US cell phones by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-11 10:17 · Score: 1

You do know that folks calling euro cell numbers pay more, right?

Kind of embarrassing when you're short 20 florins at Schiphol cuz your local contact gave you his cell..
Re:US cell phones by dslbrian · 2004-02-11 12:05 · Score: 2, Informative

Once you have the silicon designed it is just a "library" you plug into...

...GSM will not be the only standard for long, 3g systems are coming out, and they are closer to the US systems than GSM. Nobody in their right mind knowing that would design a cell phone that they couldn't move to a different protocol.

Actually as someone who designed the Motorola front-end chip I can tell you that the same front-end IC used should work in the US for GSM. The problem isn't the technology, I guessing its the carriers (ATT, Cingular, TMobile) who either don't think people will buy it, or they can't figure out how to squeeze more cash out of the people who do buy it.

The Mot chipset used has both dual-band and quad-band front-end ICs, and actually was designed for GSM (the VCO is capable of hitting the 4 main GSM bands - 850/900/1800/1900). However transferring to a different protocol isn't quite as trivial as you make it sound. The 3G and CDMA specs are harder than GSM, so to do a multi-protocol capable part you need to design to the most extreme/hardest specs of all the protocols combined (this is not a new concept, but it typically fails because the resultant part is not competitive with the protocol-specific parts on either cost, current drain - aka battery life, or any number of other factors).
Re:US cell phones by twaltari · 2004-02-11 12:06 · Score: 1

It does make a difference. I want my phone to function where ever I travel. So far my tri-band GSM covers Europe and Asia completyly but only small areas within USA. As far as I know, the next time I come visit US, opening a cheap American cell phone service just for a few weeks isn't possible either (typically half a year minimum. Here in Finland you can get a used cell phone equipment for $15 or less, opening a service is free, it's ready to use the next day, can be terminated any time and being a tourist isn't an issue).

Besides, the 3G phones will be like seven-band, most likely contaning a GSM in addition to the UMTS/CDMA2000 radio.
Re:US cell phones by neko9 · 2004-02-11 13:14 · Score: 1

in US you are charged for receiving calls on cell phones?! i'm proud to be European...
Re:US cell phones by DAldredge · 2004-02-11 19:10 · Score: 1

Yes, stolen. Do a google search on cable/copper/au theft and you will be suprised. They rip down the cable to sell the metal in it as scrap.
Re:US cell phones by Algorithm+wrangler · 2004-02-11 19:28 · Score: 1

That has always bothered me too. Here in Denmark you can buy anonymous SIM cards at every gas station with $5-$50 worth of talk time. Pop it in your phone and talk - no need to wait for someone to enable the card in the network. It has its own phone number and will work for 6 months. If I could only get that in the states, I wouldn't mind having a phone just for when I'm in the states.

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-._''_.-
Re:US cell phones by KilobyteKnight · 2004-02-12 02:12 · Score: 1

Why are we in the U.S. always the last to get new cellular toys?

Because you have several competing, incompatible cellular networks, when the rest of the world seems to have enough sense to agree on GSM. GSM is an easier, and denser market to conquer.

I used to work for a telecom company based in the US that offered cellular services outside of the US. I has nothing to do with the nonsense all the America bashers like to spout off about.

Ironically, it's because the US has such a good wired phone network already in place. Americans have been slower to adopt cell phones because it has been much cheaper to use land lines, and still is.

Cell phones are getting much more popular in the US, and the prices are dropping. Many people are now trying to decide if they want to:

1) Do away with their land lines in favor of cell only - which is almost universially more expensive in the US.

2) Keep land lines and cell phones - using cell phones only when necessary to reduce minute charges. This is even more expensive.

3) Not have cell phones. Much less expensive though also much less convienient.

In the areas where cell phone adoption has been rapid you'll find that they had expensive and/or poor quality land lines or the wired infastructure didn't exist. Mountainous regions are easier to cover with cell, for example.

It's cheaper and easier to put up a new cell tower than to run hundreds or thousands of miles of wire. It's easier to maintain cell towers than hundreds or thousands of miles of wire.

So, the situation is that because the US was so far ahead in phone technology in the past, we have the expensive (wired) infastructure already in place. It is cheaper to use what's already here than to build new stuff.

This is all in a state of change though. As I meantioned it is cheaper and easier to build NEW cell infastructure. So slowly, but surely, the old is being replaced by the new.

There are two things preventing land line from becoming extinct (or at least relegated to use only for special purposes). Price and quality. Land lines still have cell phones beat in the US. But it's sure to change. As far as I am concerned, Europe and the third world can have the cutting edge telephone technology this time - and work out the bugs.

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When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
Re:US cell phones by bluGill · 2004-02-12 02:15 · Score: 1

Your tri band cell phone covers only small parts of the US, but it covers the parts you want to visit. Seriously, the US is a big place, but odds are you are not going far from the big cities and freeways, and those areas have good GSM coverage.
And you can buy pay as you go service in the US, with not need for a 6 month contract. However billing in general is different in the US, so they don't make sense for most residents.
I live in the US, and my cell phone is a tri-band GSM phone. I nearly always have service, and the places I don't, nobody else has service either.
The only exceptions to the above is if you visit a national park. Most of them have no cell service, shut your phone off in those places and enjoy nature. (I reccomend that if you come to the US, you make it a point to visit our national parks, they are beautiful)
Re:US cell phones by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-12 02:34 · Score: 1

yeah, 1999...

God bless the dotcom boom, at least _I_ know where the money went..

(can you say $14 mac and cheese at the soho grand? investor capital is delicious!! ;)

OMG by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-11 08:22 · Score: 5, Funny

300+ submissions and one was finally accepted. Time to tell the wife and kiddies... :) I've finally made it to the ranks for geekdom. Now, if only someone would sell me their extremely low /. number... something under 5000 perhaps?

Re:OMG by dasmegabyte · 2004-02-11 08:26 · Score: 1, Funny

I'm thinking about selling my Slashdot account on ebay. I'm a level 56 Star Wars nerd / level 52 Apple zealot.

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Hey freaks: now you're ju
Re:OMG by dustmote · 2004-02-11 08:29 · Score: 1

Good for combat, but your healing is going to need some work with that combination. Probably need to team up with someone who can tank well for protracted dungeon exploration.

Good lord, I think I pulled a nerd muscle with that joke.

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-1, "1337" speak
Re:OMG by AceCaseOR · 2004-02-11 08:32 · Score: 1

No... pulling a nerd muscle would be suggesting a level combination for the team-up person.
Say... a Level 70 Moderator/Level 41 USENET Flame Warrior, for instance.

--
Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
Re:OMG by CompressedAir · 2004-02-11 08:34 · Score: 5, Funny

It seems the trick was to pack in as many links as possible.
Re:OMG by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 08:36 · Score: 3, Funny

300+ submissions??? Damn, that's persistance.
Was there a wife and kiddies before the first submission? Perhaps you could post a timeline.
Re:OMG by MS · 2004-02-11 09:06 · Score: 1

"for under 5000" ?!?
I'm selling mine for 4999,- Euro - is that fair? The nick is also not bad: "MS" (those are my initials btw. - nothing Microsoft related!)
:-)
Re:OMG by kyknos.org · 2004-02-11 10:04 · Score: 1

you are lame dood. my first submission was accepted (not counting submission number zero, which was not accepted, but only because someone subnitted the same few seconds earlier). i own you

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SHE does throw dice.
Re:OMG by dtperik · 2004-02-11 10:12 · Score: 1

Which is a sure way to ensure no one RTFA. Which ensures the discussion is nice and lively.
Re:OMG by torpor · 2004-02-12 00:08 · Score: 1

I might be tempted to sell you mine, or maybe swap for the wife and one of the kiddies ... ;)

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:OMG by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-12 05:59 · Score: 1

You can have the kids... all of them. ;) The wife I get to keep. She uses Linux. I'll never let her go.

Not an option by Doesn't_Comment_Code · 2004-02-11 08:22 · Score: 3, Funny

The only downside is that it appear to only be available in China right now.

Well I suppose you could learn Chinese, but paying for around-the-world roaming fees will probably screw you.

--

Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.

Re:Not an option by strider_starslayer · 2004-02-11 18:01 · Score: 1

Ahh, but it's a GSM phone- it should be as simple as somehow GETTING that phone, then taking it to your local provider (if they offer GSM; AT&T dose in my neighbourhood) paying the $25 phone connection fee, and boom your online with your fancy linux phone.

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-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
Re:Not an option by bhtooefr · 2004-02-12 01:58 · Score: 1

Avoid AT&T. Their national GSM lan doesn't cover everything their local GSM plan does. The local plan covers a lot of Ohio, but the national plan only covers Columbus and a little bit of I-71. Or, should I say, you get slammed by roaming if you have coverage but aren't in that area.
Re:Not an option by strider_starslayer · 2004-02-12 11:16 · Score: 1

I'm in Canada, coverage is much better here as I understand it.

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-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post

Deprivation of these toys by IchBinDasWalross · 2004-02-11 08:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

We in the US are last to get this technology because we embrace it not as fully. We still have lots of landlines and service that isn't as crappy as the ones that I used in London. Europe seems to have less advanced systems, so they are more eager to make the jump away from their crappy POTS. We live in a land filled with mediocre service that people don't hate fullly enough.

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Mod "Overrated" instead of replying "I disagree with you," you coward.

Re:Deprivation of these toys by Yokaze · 2004-02-11 08:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bad landlines in Europe? IRC, some DSL standard had to be modified to accomodate the american landlines (smaller diameter, in average larger distance from the switch).

I guess it depends on where you live. Maybe the US is much more diverse than you think.

--
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Re:Deprivation of these toys by radish · 2004-02-11 09:09 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. When I lived in London my phone worked fine all the time (which is all I expect a POTS line to do), and was cheaper than my line here in NYC, which didn't work when I first got it and has failed again in the 4 months I've had it. So what exactly makes a landline "crappy"?

--
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:Deprivation of these toys by twaltari · 2004-02-11 12:43 · Score: 1

Most European countries had an excellent POTS. In Finland the last analog POTS switch was replaced in the beginning of 1990s. Today, land lines are mostly used for DSL.

A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by al701 · 2004-02-11 08:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

1) FCC - They have to approve every device and this takes time.
2) Slow adoption rate. The USA isn't big on advanced cells. Not like Europe or Asia.
3) Usually the better phones are GSM. Only recently has GSM become a real option here in the states.

Also: If this type of stuff interestes you, check out Smart Mobs and the book, it is excellent.

Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 09:28 · Score: 2, Interesting
The real stoppers are:
- cell phone owners in the US are charged for receiving (!) calls
- local calls in the US typically are not charged by the minute (here in Italy we pay about 75 cents per hour), so getting a POTS line is cheap
- competing standards a no GSM until a few years ago made the market uninteresting to most cellular-companies (you mentioned this in point 3)
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by al701 · 2004-02-11 09:39 · Score: 1

I never really saw point one as a big deal, but surely interesting. I have T-Mo and well with 3000minutes/mo, I don't really even think about it. I want to be in touch, I pay for the privledge of others being able to contact me.

The second point, yep have heard that, should have remembered it. It's the whole technology leapfrog effect. Good point though. I have actually heard that POTS is super flaky overseas and cell service is better. In America, that certainly isn't the case. Even during power failures, phones will sometimes stay up.
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-11 10:09 · Score: 3, Informative

The USA isn't big on advanced cells. Not like Europe or Asia.

None of the advanced features US providers are dreaming about will happen until we see a whole lot more flat-rate action. Americans simply will not pay what Asians and Europeans are willing to for stuff like GPRS, SMS/MMS, etc. LTIC most European plans are still per-minute with per-message charges in SMS and per-KB data transfer charges. No all-you-can-eat plans.

I can guarantee you that 'cellular data' will go nowhere until it's available flat-rate all-you-can-eat. Same goes for MMS, location-based services, etc. Americans just want flat-rate and are willing to wait for it. This may be happening with Sprint and ATT, but I believe all-you-can-eat data, sms/mms and local voice needs to be $50/mo for it to take off.

Ergo, those phones which enable those services will not be as appealing: why pay extra for something that is not affordable to use?

And it seems to be something the wireless companies need to learn over and over and over again.
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-11 10:13 · Score: 1

I never really saw point one as a big deal, but surely interesting. I have T-Mo and well with 3000minutes/mo, I don't really even think about it. I want to be in touch, I pay for the privledge of others being able to contact me.

The big selling point of smartfones though is their ability to do useful things over packet data. Packet data from basically every provider is still ridiculously overpriced. Why would an American need a smartfone/PDAphone if they didn't plan to use the packet data features?

(disclosure: I have a P800, and post pix I take with it online via MMS, and I'm probably paying too much for the privilege, but go fig...)
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by ahillen · 2004-02-11 10:39 · Score: 1

I have actually heard that POTS is super flaky overseas and cell service is better.

Well, you know, 'overseas' is a pretty big place. In many parts of Europe (where GSM first took off) landline service is really good. In Germany mobile phones became a real standard accessoire shortly after the Deutsche Telekom finished the full digitalization of the network.

Even during power failures, phones will sometimes stay up.
Yes, phone networks usually have their own power supply. So as long as you don't have wireless phone (for your land line connection) which usually need a power supply for the 'receiver' you plug into the wall there should be normally no problem.
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by laymil · 2004-02-11 17:44 · Score: 1

What exactly is ridiculously overpriced? I pay $10 for unlimited data on top of my regular plan with sprint. I would say thats quite reasonable.

Also, since sprint includes text messaging, etc in their data count, I have unlimited text, unlimited AIM, pretty much anything I want on the phone.

If the need arises, Its also very easy to hook my phone up to my laptop and go online remotely.

Yay for $10 a month being overpriced. As long as people think that, thats all I have to pay.
Re:A Few Reasons it isn't in the USA by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-12 02:36 · Score: 1

What exactly is ridiculously overpriced?

T-Mobile and AT&T's GPRS plans are LTIC pretty bad.. AT&T had data flat-rate at like $100/mo and up, and T-Mobile had _no_ flat-rate data plans.

Also, T-Mobile is allegedly a global company, so WTF is up with getting stuck with roaming charges on their European networks?!?!!

God I hope Orange or Voda buys them, so I can have the western world as my local calling area...

The last thing I want by Slowtreme · 2004-02-11 08:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

Reading Word Docs on my cell phone. Combo devices... Meh

--
Post: Sigged, for your pleasure.

Re:The last thing I want by ejaw5 · 2004-02-11 08:56 · Score: 1

Pretty soon Verison's TXT messaging will be replaced with the new-and-improved DOC messaging. Not only can you now send messages to your friends about how bad Gigli the movie was, you can include a comparison table and charts!

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$cat /dev/random > Sig
Re:The last thing I want by RevAaron · 2004-02-11 09:37 · Score: 1

The ability comes in handy more that you may think. If you're just using your handset to make calls, no you don't need anything like that. But viewers of various types is very handy when you want to carry data around with you. Bus schedules, directions, etc etc.

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Re:The last thing I want by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-11 10:02 · Score: 1

Combo devices... Meh

Sorry, but you are wrong. Combo devices are the dog's bollocks.

Makes sense by nil5 · 2004-02-11 08:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is pretty much a continuation of a trend that began a few years ago. We see many embedded devices using open source, particularly linux. It makes sense for many reasons, but the bottom line is that open source is inexpensive (ie free?) and widely used, which makes development more efficient.

The really interesting thing, as I see it, is the integration we will be able to get when many devices run linux. I would love to be able to integrate my cell phone with my pda with my computer with my wireless access point. the possibilities are endless when we converge on common standards.

Re:Makes sense by RevAaron · 2004-02-11 09:34 · Score: 1

But there is nothing about Linux that means it will use open standards. Nor is there any guaruntee that anyone else will implement those standards in other places. The Linux-based Zaurus is a good example. You still cannot sync the newer ROMs with a Linux desktop. The API and formats are open and available, but no one has done the work to put the two together yet. It's likely to happen eventually, yes, but just being based on Linux, just being "open" doesn't mean jack- and this illustrates this point.

Nor does the Zaurus (and likely these Linux-based Mot phones) support SyncML.

Being free is certainly a motitivator- especially in markets like China where a cheaper device makes a big impact. But there is a lot of potential- again, look at Sharp for an example- of this being abused. That is, companies don't put the work in required to make the solution a nice one, content to just pass the buck on to the community, assuming that they'll do the work to make it usable. That is fine and dandy for a tiny niche market like Linux PDAs, but for regular markets- yeah right!

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad

Not open however... by JohnGrahamCumming · 2004-02-11 08:25 · Score: 4, Informative

Although this device might be using "Open Source" software the actual software in the device isn't open. No doubt they obtained commercial licenses from Sleepycat and others so that they could get around having to release their software. Which is a pity because it makes customizing the thing so much harder.

John.

...last in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 08:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

The US is generally last to get new cellular toys because of the lack of a single standard. By letting the market fight it out, the FCC - whilst promoting competition amongst vendors - kinda hashed things up for the consumers.

They did it again with Digital TV too, mandating an arguably inferior standard that isn't used much elsewhere, so that the domestic TV manufacturers would be happy. Now, if they'd gone with DVB-T, prices everywhere around the World for DTV tuners would be lower. Ho hum. It seems the US Government doesn't get wireless. So the population can't, either :(

Re:...last in the US by otis+wildflower · 2004-02-11 10:00 · Score: 1

The US is generally last to get new cellular toys because of the lack of a single standard. By letting the market fight it out, the FCC - whilst promoting competition amongst vendors - kinda hashed things up for the consumers.

OTOH our rates are much lower, so there is a benefit to competition. Keep in mind GSM was government mandated, and they just lucked out that it was as flexible as it was: government-selected standards rarely are.

They did it again with Digital TV too, mandating an arguably inferior standard that isn't used much elsewhere, so that the domestic TV manufacturers would be happy.

Does DVB go past 480p?

Now, if they'd gone with DVB-T, prices everywhere around the World for DTV tuners would be lower.

Personally, I think there's something to be said for allowing technologies to compete to a point, then letting the best value determine the 'standard' at some point. Government picking winners before the game is played is a hit-or-miss (mostly miss) proposition IMHO.
Re:...last in the US by bruthasj · 2004-02-11 12:29 · Score: 1

> By letting the market fight it out, the FCC

You can take these anti-free market arguments elsewhere, because here in Taiwan they "let the market fight it out" and very vigorously so. There are different standards: GSM and PHS. Many companies: Chunghua Telecom, Taiwan Cellular, FarEasTone, KGT Online, PHS, and a bunch of others. This has created a country with the highest per-capita wielding cell phones. We exceed Japan and Korea and others by a handful.

It's more like regulation and big government oversight (more akin to socialist ideals) actually drives innovation into the ground. Kind of like the deal about Internet Exploder losing its luster as Microsoft, the monopoly moves forward onto other markets.
Re:...last in the US by SenseiLeNoir · 2004-02-12 02:44 · Score: 1

> Does DVB go past 480p?
PAL is already above 480p (576) :) rememebr us "backwards" European already have a TV standard with more lines than NTSC.

Also nothign in the spec itself that prohibits higher than pal 576p. In fact my DVB Setup box had a recent firmware update send to it (automatically, and over the air) to allow it to handle larger streams. It wont display the higher resolutions (as the hardware itself doesnt support it) but iat least it will handle it gracefully.

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Have a nice day!

Marketability by Sheetrock · 2004-02-11 08:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

Why are we in the U.S. always the last to get new cellular toys?

There is a certain reliability factor we expect in U.S. equipment. Keep in mind that these fancy Linux phones are bleeding-edge and likely quite unstable compared to your standard PCS or analog phone. Additionally, with the amount of geography we've got to cover, the support for newer technologies just isn't there in our cell towers.

Canada's in an even worse situation, technically speaking. Even though it's easier to deploy wireless than it used to be to get phone service out to rural areas, the towers still require service.

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Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.

Re:Marketability by dontspellsogood · 2004-02-11 08:40 · Score: 1

I guess it depends on where you live. Pretty much anywhere I need to go in Ontario [Bell Mobility covereage map]with my dual mode phone is covered.

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No, reelly I don't!
Re:Marketability by Narcissus · 2004-02-11 08:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Excuse me if I'm mistaken, but are you trying to say that GSM is "newer technology"??

Australia has been using GSM for at least 8 or 9 years, it's not new technology. I don't mean to offend, but the lack of US support for GSM for so many years feels, to an outsider, as though it's more because it's supported so heavily elsewhere!

Plus, regarding the geography you have to cover: Australia, again, is about 70% of the area of the main "chunk" of the United States, and yet they don't seem to have much problem. The way I see it, with the higher population density, it would actually be more economical for the US to provide these so called "newer technologies" than Australia, for instance...
Re:Marketability by stratjakt · 2004-02-11 09:00 · Score: 1

The difference is that Americans are spread out all over that main "chunk" of land, where Australians are kinda crammed along the coastal regions, and it's not so populated out in the desert or the outback.

Same with Canada, most of the population lives along the US border, not too many people to worry about way up in the tundra.

Say hi to Yahoo Serious for me. Truly an Australian icon.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Marketability by frostman · 2004-02-11 09:41 · Score: 4, Informative

Yeah, right.

In San Francisco, a wealthy tech-savvy city, my Sprint PCS phone drops network randomly as I walk through the financial district. In Noe Valley I have four antennas on one side of the $tarbucks and zero on the other side of it.

In Budapest, an up-and-coming (and much larger) yet by no means wealthy Central European city, the only time I ever lose connectivity above ground is for 20 minutes after midnight on New Year's.

Face it, the US cellphone infrastructure is many, many years behind Europe's in terms of reliability and signal quality (and IMHO revenue concept).

As for the reliability of the handsets themselves, you may have a point - or you may not, since your point contradicts US behavior in other tech markets (PDAs spring to mind).

--
This Like That - fun with words!
Re:Marketability by qwertyatwork · 2004-02-11 13:27 · Score: 1

I think the problem is that you did business with Sprint. I work for a cell company (i wont name them so you dont think Im trying to sell us) but ANYBODY is better than sprint. You couldnt possibly get worse coverage. Cricket (ghetto cell phones) get better signal then they do. Look at a different carrier. Better yet, talk to the people who have cell phones in the area you use your phone and ask them. Thats the best way to shop for a cellular carrier.
Re:Marketability by smaug195 · 2004-02-12 09:12 · Score: 1

The best thing out there right now in Urban areas is a Quadband GSM phone. I'd push for cingular and t-mobile because ATT is kinda crap. Crap in coverage (Roaming in santa cruz on analog and digital, drive from San Jose to Walnut Creek drops signal 12 times), and crap in customer service. The quadband though is the key, because the 850mhz band gets you far better reception in urban centers then the 1900mhz does. One of the reasons GSM works so well in europe is the 900mhz signal (lower the frequency the more range in urban settings, or so I understand).
Re:Marketability by qwertyatwork · 2004-02-13 03:15 · Score: 1

My company runs on CDMA, never heard of quadband Im gona have to check it out. You right about the lower range, pound for pound the signal is better.

Handys in Germany by derphilipp · 2004-02-11 08:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

As I can speak for Europe (Germany), each kid (12 and up !) here needs the newest toy on the market.
Handys are everywhere - but not mainly to call someone - especially Teenagers are sending hundrets of SMS per month - for 30-40 Euro-cents each !
Photo-Handys and MMS are on their way, the market is growing and growing.

Handys are a definitely a status symbol -
You've got one ? - You're one of us.
You've got that old-styled Nokia Handy from last Season ? You're such a dork !

--
Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.

Re:Handys in Germany by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 08:31 · Score: 5, Funny

A a fellow German, let me tell you that the term "handy" means nothing to non-Germans. At least nothing cellphone-related. ;-)
Re:Handys in Germany by tindur · 2004-02-11 08:50 · Score: 1

A a fellow German, let me tell you that the term "handy" means nothing to non-Germans.
No but it's very funny. Germans seem to hate speaking german so much they rather use english words even though they aren't real english words.
Re:Handys in Germany by stratjakt · 2004-02-11 08:56 · Score: 2, Funny

As I can speak for Europe

Exactly when were you appointed official spokesperson for all of Europe?

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Handys in Germany by mr_exit · 2004-02-11 10:23 · Score: 1

In New Zealand the photo/colour/mms handsets are about all you can buy now.

The largest cell company has made photo text messages, they call them pxt (pronounced picksst), free for the last few months and they will be untill the end of march, people have really taken it on board and all the people I txt every day have pxt capable phones.

this isn't up and coming technology, its already here and doing well.

--

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Drink Coffee - Do Stupid Things Faster And With More Energy!

centericq, vnc, and gkrellm too!?! by planckscale · 2004-02-11 08:28 · Score: 5, Funny

That's all I need is an always on centericq text message center with gkrellm running to let me know when I have new emails, my cpu usage and maybe a virtual desktop into any IP address while on speakerphone with live video with gps location and news and weather alerts vibrating color ringtones bash shell mp3 playing miniDVDdiskburner ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *splat* head explodes

--
Namaste

great by Triumph+The+Insult+C · 2004-02-11 08:29 · Score: 5, Funny

now, not only do i have to deal with people talking on cell phones while driving, i potentially have to deal with people compiling kernels on their cell phones while driving

--
vodka, straight up, thank you!

Re:great by RevAaron · 2004-02-11 09:39 · Score: 3, Funny

Judging from the Zaurus [1], we'll probably find out that this handset can kinda sorta make phone calls. But check this out! You can run MySQL on it! And PHP! And X11! See how cute my phone is at a LUG meeting, although during the rest of the week it goes unused...

[1] Enter Zaurus cheerleader, who says: "It's not supposed to be a good PDA! It's a PMT, not a PDA! *frothing at mouth*"

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad

funny... by djupedal · 2004-02-11 08:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

The only downside is that it appear to only be available in China right now

Downside for you, maybe. No downside for anyone that lives/works where these devices are used.

Re:funny... by stratjakt · 2004-02-11 08:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Also not a downside for those who simply want a phone, and really dont care about the politics or philosophy of the firmware inside such phone.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:funny... by dontspellsogood · 2004-02-11 08:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

It is a downside for those of us who just want a fricken phone + phone # storage. Im surprised that most phone makes don't offer a basic model for each of model lines. No bells or whistles, just a good reliable phone. Imagine how long my Motorola V2260 would last with one of these new batteries (which have to power colour displays, sound chips, flash memory, mp3 players, an advanced OS, toast maker, Tony Hawk 3). I just hope mine doesn't die anytime soon.

--
No, reelly I don't!
Re:funny... by bezza · 2004-02-11 11:10 · Score: 1

Don't give me that drivle. There are a heap of basic phones available on the market, mostly available in pre-paid packages here in Australia.
How bout the Panasonic GD55? Its a lovely phone with no extra features, with the benefit of being tiny. There are heaps of others, with a large range of basic Siemens.
I for one love integration of features, but there are plenty of basic phones around.

--
WARNING: This sig does not contain a joke

Please deposit $699 to make a call by AtariAmarok · 2004-02-11 08:33 · Score: 4, Funny

Full of open source?

"Please deposit $699 for the next 3 minutes. Thank you for using Cingudarl."

--
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.

Legalities by Short+Circuit · 2004-02-11 08:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not just that, but a litigation-heavy court system and a class-action popular mindset make us the last place anyone wants to try something new.

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tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)

also note... by segment · 2004-02-11 08:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

Motorola claims to be the number one manufacturer of handsets in China, where IDC estimates there are 252.3 million current mobile telephone subscribers. By 2007, the Chinese mobile phone market is forecast to reach 371.4 million subscribers.

In other words... China has the United States' (or soon will have) population already as a customer in China. Do the math... Do I release it in the US and sell about 50-100 million (wishfully thinking), or do I do with a solid 100+ million Gee willikers what would you do...

Opinionater bastard

--
MoFscker

Re:also note... by RLW · 2004-02-11 10:07 · Score: 1

Right, there are a *lot* of Chinese, therefore the potential Chinese market is huge. Make sure you get in early, start on top and stay on top. There are almost as many cell phone subscribers in China as there are Americans in total. And the market in China is nowhere near saturation. Combine that with the same frequencies in use in China as in Europe, wow, that makes a *HUGE* potenial market. When it comes to economies of scale the Chinese will win.

Where's the source? by stratjakt · 2004-02-11 08:44 · Score: 1

Why does noone ever call on folks who use embedded OSS products to release the source, at least to people who buy the products?

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

Re:I'm not buying it. by ebob9 · 2004-02-11 08:55 · Score: 1

According to This , the A760 does support your precious Bluetooth.

Re:Why not in the US by RoyalCheese · 2004-02-11 08:58 · Score: 2, Informative

Ooooh.. its linux.. oooh its not linux.. So fucking what? Is it any better as a mobile phone than its competitors or not? If you buy a phone purely because its operating system is open source, then you are focusing on something immaterial to the function (and styling) of the phone. You could have bought something that suited your needs better if you weren't so hung up on your "open source is best" or "MS is best" dogma!

Re:What next .... by the+MaD+HuNGaRIaN · 2004-02-11 08:58 · Score: 1

Dude, that was so 2001. Do try to keep up

Office file compatibility? by www.sorehands.com · 2004-02-11 09:02 · Score: 3, Funny

Does that mean that the phone will run all of the word/excel macro virii/viruses?

--
Fight Spammers!

GSM by pommiekiwifruit · 2004-02-11 09:02 · Score: 1

The USA does have GSM but they transmit it on different frequencies than other places (1900MHz instead of 1800Mhz/900Mhz IIRC) so only special handsets can work there.

Hey, at least you get DVDs first by DaMeatGrinder · 2004-02-11 09:05 · Score: 1

DVDs are released first in North America. Everyone else in the world has to wait 6-12 months.

Re:Hey, at least you get DVDs first by Enry · 2004-02-11 09:24 · Score: 1

Unless they're ones we want. Like Red Dwarf (stupid wait 4 months for the US version...)
Re:Hey, at least you get DVDs first by rdr2 · 2004-02-11 10:53 · Score: 1

And the Soprono's Second Season DVD set. Released in Europe 3-6 months before the US.
Re:Hey, at least you get DVDs first by hnjjz · 2004-02-11 13:23 · Score: 1

DVDs are released first in North America. Everyone else in the world has to wait 6-12 months.

In Asia, you can get DVDs for movies even BEFORE they hit the theaters (And the DVDs cost only $1-$2)!

German by pommiekiwifruit · 2004-02-11 09:05 · Score: 1

...and of course to a German, "funny" means enjoyable (something that is fun).

But do they include the source code? by plinius · 2004-02-11 09:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

There's no point in calling it open source if the sources aren't available. And somehow I doubt that yet another big company embracing open source will actually include the sources with the product.

Re:Why not in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-11 09:11 · Score: 1, Interesting

Actually the fact that it uses Linux at would suggest that there is a far greater chance that it will work with my computer. It could be be greatest phone in the world but if it will not interact with my other devices/systems then what good is it.

How much? by amembleton · 2004-02-11 09:25 · Score: 1

Um, we're not charged for receiving calls. On cell phones, yes, but not on POTS, which was the topic at hand.

How much are you charged for receiving calls?

I'm from the UK, and didn't really know this happened - I don't think it does here. Does it only happen if someone from a different network calls you?

Re:How much? by T-Ranger · 2004-02-11 10:00 · Score: 1

Air time is air time. Up to the cell phone owner to pay. Someone calling you long distance - they would pay the LD charge, but you still pay for the air time.
There are, of course, unlimited plans. And damm near every plan is free nights and weekends.
Re:How much? by twaltari · 2004-02-11 11:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

You make it sound as if it was a natural and logical billing principle; The truth is, in US the cell phone numbers weren't allocated under a separate area code (which is the standard in many countries). A basic principle of billing phone calls says the caller should always know roughly how much the call will cost him. In US the caller cannot see from the number whether it is a cell phone or wired one. Thus the telco charges cell phone owners even when receiving calls (the same priciple rest of the world uses whenever the cell phone is roaming).

About call "plans" (prepaid monthly minutes) you mentioned; That's sick and wrong. The greedy telco makes you pay for calls you are only planning to make. I refuse to ever pay anything but actual calls, billed afterwards by seconds.

Other shotrcomings of cell phone service in USA include the complete lack of SIM cards (separation of service and phone equipment), limited support for SMS and typical half-a-year-minumum service provider lock-in. Luckily number portability is on the way.

Needless to say, I'm European.
Re:How much? by T-Ranger · 2004-02-11 12:37 · Score: 1

Calling a cellphone doesnt cost the caller any money (unless they happen to be on a cell too). The callers cost is Zero. Mr. Owner has the option of not answering. This is similar to how 1-800/888/ (toll free anywhere) works. The cell phone owner (and the toll free owner) has a special service. It is convienent for both them and who ever calls, however someone has to pay for that convience, in both cases its the callee, not the caller.
Painfully, you dont have that option to not answer with text messages, email, etc.
Pre-billing: Well, you always have the option of getting the very smallest plan (which could very well be 'always pay'). The pricing structure is one that with that 'always' plan you would have to pay the most per-minute rate. Plans with huge amounts of minutes will pay the least per-minute rate. Thus is life. Simmilar style packages exist for long distance.
Every new phone Ive seen in the last two years has had a SIM card.
Cell phone companies heavily subsidize new phone purchases. Most, if not all, of these 'lock-in' packages as you call them are based on that. One local company (Canada, not the US) has at anyone time say 5 phones. Each has 3 prices. For the cheapest phone, the smallest price is $0. Depending on what 'lock-in' term you choose you get a differnet rate for the phone. Or you can buy the phone outright and go month to month. This is through a reseller/franchisee so I have no idea if it is common.
Re:How much? by twaltari · 2004-02-11 13:04 · Score: 1

Thanks for clarification. However, I think the European system for billing is better. Matter of taste / customs ofcourse.

I find your statement on SIM cards hard to believe. One and half a years ago I spent several weeks touring USA, all around the continent and was continously looking for a GSM phone (mostly out of curirosity on the differences between European and American cell phone systems). _None_ of the phones I saw had a replacable SIM card. Technically every GSM phone has a SIM but all the phones I saw either had it soldered on the PCB or it was locked into certain service provider by the phone software. A lot of them were otherwise same models we used here (other frequency though). Besides most cell phone cell phone sales people didn't seems to understand the concept of SIM card (and service-equipment separation) at all back then. I'm sure the situation has changed but clearly your comment on last two years is false.
Re:How much? by bhtooefr · 2004-02-12 01:40 · Score: 1

You haven't seen an AT&T, T-Mobile, Cingular, (all three GSM) or Nextel phone, have you? They all take SIM cards.

Also, I've found that SMS is actually quite well supported, but it's not cheap either way, except on AT&T, where it's free to recieve. Nextel actually forces you to recieve the message, and it's (AFAIK) 15 cents per RECIEVED message, and disabling SMS prevents voicemail alerts from working.
Re:How much? by twaltari · 2004-02-12 21:51 · Score: 1

Maybe they take SIM cards but have you actually tried sticking T-Mobile SIM into AT&T phone? Most likely it will result an error message like "SIM card rejected". The phone is locked into to certain service provider by software, which kinda reverses the whole idea of SIM. Here in Finland such a service provider vendor lock-in is was declared illegal years ago.

And what you just said about SMS supports my ideas on its state in USA; They make you pay to RECIEVE messages. Sick and wrong. Sending will cost around 15 cents per message here as well. Another problem with SMS in USA seemed to be the presence of non-GSM cell phones and some problems/missing contracts in delivering SMS between different GSM providers. So basically most GSM phone owners didn't really feel like sending SMSs because they couldn't be sure whether their cell phoner owning friends could recieve them.

Re:I'm not buying it. by simon_hzero · 2004-02-11 09:25 · Score: 2, Informative

And loads of other Motorolas - v500/525, v600, a830, a835, a920, a925, amongst others...

Re:Why not in the US by RevAaron · 2004-02-11 09:43 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, not really. There isn't any SyncML for the Zaurus, which does Linux+Qtopia just like this phone. Whereas a lot of other phones running every other OS does support SyncML. You'd probably have a better chance of your computer talking to a SyncML-enabled phone rather than whatever PIM API Trolltech/Sharp/Mot is using this week.

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad

Re:I'm not buying it. by calica · 2004-02-11 09:47 · Score: 1

Are any of these for nextel?

Re:What next .... by RLW · 2004-02-11 10:16 · Score: 2, Funny

no kidding. not only did I have a toaster running in 2001, I now have a fridge with a PS2 compatibility mode: which as turns out was a big mistake as now the eggs are always trash talking the frozen waffles about who's best at GTA. It's a bad confluence to have over teched appliances filled with sapient GM foods. Where will it end?

Buying mobile phones by Guanix · 2004-02-11 10:57 · Score: 2

My impression is that Americans aren't used to buying mobile phones themselves, even though it's easy with GSM. This impression comes from the fact that all the US bloggers whom I read always refer to "[AT&T/Nextel/other telco] doesn't offer [latest model] yet".

Re:Buying mobile phones by twaltari · 2004-02-11 12:18 · Score: 1

This is due to almost complete lack of service and equipment separation in USA (i.e. SIM cards). Here in Finland tying these things together is actually illegal (to protect the rights of the consumer). When you buy a Nokia phone in USA, it has e.g. AT&T logo on it and is locked into AT&T service. Generally AT&T doesnt sell you a SIM card, so if you wanna have a particular latest Nokia model, your only option is to wait as long as AT&T sells it to you (if ever).

Re:Please note by MrLizardo · 2004-02-11 11:07 · Score: 1

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls...but I can't resist. Yes, some of the non-x86 Linux-ports can be buggy, but those bugs are a know quantity. Embedded systems developers can _fix_ those bugs or work around them. Hypothetically, even if the ARM port of Linux has 3 bugs for every 1 bug that WinCE has(which there is no evidence to support :) ), Linux may still come out on top compared to WinCE. In the embedded market application compatibility isn't as much of a concern, but cost and open source is.

-Mr Lizard

--
^I'm with stupid.^

Where is it sold? I will get one by RichiP · 2004-02-11 11:35 · Score: 1

I don't care where it's sold (I bought a Sony-Ericsson P900 from Asia because I couldn't find anyone selling the A760). I want that phone. Could someone post a website of a company that sells it?

Re:Where is it sold? I will get one by feldmark · 2004-02-12 03:55 · Score: 1

Im living in China, and if anyone really wants one and is willing to pay in advance, Ill be happy to buy and send them.

Re:Not financially feasible by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-11 11:59 · Score: 1

You're trapped by your own ignorance. *If* SCO has a valid case and were to win both the copyright issues with Novell and the contract dispute issues with IBM, they would have legal ground to pursue any organization using Linux, and not just limited to U.S. based companies. So their choice to not release it in the U.S. is not at all based on their fear of reprecussions from SCO.

Re:I'm not buying it. by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-11 12:02 · Score: 1

Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the links in the article before rushing to post a comment. The linked review of the A760 shows that it fully supports Bluetooth, and the spec sheet for the newer A768 lists Bluetooth as well.

Re:Why not in the US by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-11 12:07 · Score: 2, Funny

UM, the A760 (which has Linux OS base just like the A768) has been released in all of Europe and Asia. Its that neither are available in the US. And considering that there are so few Windows-based phones available in the U.S., Microsoft is probably happy to just have them. Sure... they won't like Motorola doing Linux phones anymore than they like Dell selling Linux instead of Windows, but they're not in a position to be dominant in the cell phone market right now. Studies have proven that embedded Linux is better than embedded Windows and nobody wants their cell phone to blue screen on them. The best cell phones are Java and Linux based. MS will have to fight hard to dominate that market. Of course, knowing them, they're probably about to release a MS Cell Phone that needs a 200 character license key to activate.

Re:Handspring Visor + Visor Phone by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-11 12:09 · Score: 1

One *big* thing you're missing is the size. The Motorola A760 and A768 are the size of the T720/730 series but with a PDA. These phones are no where near as bulky as the Visor's or Treo's.

SIM cards by chrisv · 2004-02-11 23:00 · Score: 1

All I can say right now is that every cell phone I've ever owned (and I do live in the US) has had a SIM card. T-Mobile (formerly VoiceStream, until they were bought out by the German company of the same name) uses them in their phones, and I've seen a number of people swapping out SIM cards so that they could make use of someone else's phone (and have access to their phonebook).

As well, (they used to, don't know if they still do now, and I'm not quite sober enough to actually go visit their site) they offered tri-band GSM phones (900/1800/1900MHz), so (in theory) they would work worldwide. I don't know if you could stick another provider's SIM card into the phone and it would work, as I've never had the opportunity to test such things, nor have I heard any experiences with trying it.

--

Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)

how about under 10000? by Barbarian · 2004-02-11 23:32 · Score: 1

4-digit account with several successful stories posted to /. Serious bidders only please!

Re:Why not in the US by freenet · 2004-02-12 00:40 · Score: 1

I think the A760 hasn't been released in Europe.
I've been waiting for it for a year now.
Maybe you know better..?

What I don't understand is.. by TA · 2004-02-12 00:51 · Score: 1

.. why come up with a new, fancy, feature-full mobile phone, and then blow it all just before the finish line by adding an external antenna? In 2004? Back in the bad, old days of 1997 you could only get phones with external antennas, and boy was it annoying when those darn things unstoppingly managed to dig a hole in your pocket or whatever you kept it in. The first phone company that came up with the internal antennas experienced a huge jump in market share, and I can't for the life of me understand why companies like Motorola are still making phones with ugly inconvinient external stickouts.

only java applications..? by esbjorn · 2004-02-12 01:00 · Score: 1

how open is the interface to the phone? I imagine it it impossible to run native applications on it... but I can't find any info on it.
Any clues?

Cry me a river... by DaveOf9thKey · 2004-02-12 03:42 · Score: 1

Dude, the market is flooded with basic phones. Have you seen the Verizon catalog lately? They have a huge selection of basic phones for $30 or less. So if you "just want a fricken phone + phone # storage", hey, knock yourself out.

Second, what makes you think bells and whistles automatically make for a bad phone? I can use my phone for a lot more than just calling people, and you know what? It's still a really good phone. Don't knock it till you try it.

--

Visit me on the web at Permanent4.com.

its Linux, so can I program it? by feldmark · 2004-02-12 04:03 · Score: 1

So its Linux based. Can I write and load my own application programs for it? How about kernel modules?

Re:Why not in the US by Supp0rtLinux · 2004-02-12 05:09 · Score: 1

I emailed the project manager for the A760 at Motorola a few months ago asking about plans to release it in the U.S. He said it *was planned* but offered no ETA. Searching around google for "Motorola A760" will list quite a few reviews and articles, many of which mention its availability in Europe and Asia.

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