Fired Via Instant Message

JThaddeus writes "Yahoo! news reports that South Korea's third-largest credit card issuer, KEB Credit Service, fired 161 people--a quarter of its workforce--via mobile phone text messages. Hey, at least they got told, right? Afterall, they could have been like Milton."

Comments

"You've Got Vacation!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Permanently.

Re:"You've Got Vacation!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Back when I was a software contractor (where I could and would get fired at the drop of a hat), I used to call it "instant vacation." I also used to ask my boss everyday: "am I fired yet?"

But now that I'm retired, yeah, that I call "sweet permanent vacation." Heh.

Re:"You've Got Vacation!"

[1u3hr]

Why is this article filed under "funny"? If 161 Americans had been fired by instant message I rather think it'd be "your rights online". But because they're foreigners it's only important as something to laugh at. Maybe the editors have their aidience pegged, as the post above and the majority I've looked at are dumb insensitive jokes.

The Milton Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

"...they took ... my ... my Swingline ... and then, they texted me a pink slip ... going to burn the place to the ground ... this is, yes, this is the final straw"

Wouldn't it be cheaper

[dysprosia]

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to tell these people quickly in person? Considering the cost of a text message in some places...

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[LostCluster]

These people were on strike. They couldn't be told at the end of their next shift because there was no next shift for them. So, the only way to get them in person would be to summon them via text message for an annoucement...

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Futaba-chan]

They were all out on strike (and apparently, firing striking workers isn't illegal there), so there was no way to tell them in person.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[geekster]

From the article: "The firm said it had no method for contacting striking staff other than using the short message service (SMS)."

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[LostCluster]

You'd think that registered mail would be more appropriate, more traceable, and more reliable.

And much more expensive. When a company is bankrupt and shutting down, things like that just aren't quite an option.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Penguinshit]

So you like working for $0.25/hour, or whatever the employer decides to pay you that week.

For all their problems, organized labor unions (with laws protecting their rights) are a necessity to protect the common workers from exploitation.

Labor Strike != "not working". It is the only tool workers have for forcing fair negotiated wages and other compensation.

No, I'm not (and never have been) part of a union. Thankfully I'm in a profession which doesn't require that kind of protection. But Upton Sinclair and Tennesee Ernie Ford didn't get famous for bitching about non-issues...

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[LostCluster]

Labor unions are a great idea on paper, but sometimes in implementation they go wrong. In this case, it did. Any time a strike results in being the death blow to a weak business, it's a misuse of the tool. The union doesn't benefit from the destruction of the employer.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Penguinshit]

That's why I attempted to qualify my statement with "For all their problems...". And I was merely responding to the AC's cold attitude towards striking workers.

However, in this case, the company was going to go under anyway so these folks were screwed no matter what.

A good example of your point in current practice is the upcoming expiration of the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement. The NHLPA (the players' union) is refusing to even discuss a salary cap, even in the face of an independent analysis of the NHL finances. I really think the NHLPA should reassess their position because a two-year work stoppage (as they are advising the players) would pretty much kill the NHL. Only us hard-core fans would be left (and I'd seriously look at where else I could spend my sports-viewing dollars).

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[dolphinling]

Because if your employer can just hire someone else, that makes the strike worse than useless. The point of the strike is that you're not getting paid, but your employer isn't getting any work done and therefore isn't getting any money either. If they can hire someone else, they still get the work done--and you, because of that, have lost your right to strike.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

The union doesn't benefit from the destruction of the employer.

Workers don't benefit from destroying the employer but in some cases they do. For instance, if an employer has lower standards or wages than what one would expect in a particular society, workers won't lose much if such businesses go out of business. This is why labour supports minimum wage, even though it puts many companies out of business. It is much better for these low-wage companies to go out of business than to have them pay something very low.

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

People have the right to strike (in many countries) because society (mostly the working people) are of the opinion that workers need power to battle the employers. That is the reason why the right to strike was instituted. People didn't have such right in the 1800's or even early 1900's. So to sum up, it's just a right enshrined to give power to workers (who are often weak because they don't have capital--most important thing under capitalism) to defend themselves against employers (who do have capital). If you don't understand any of it, just read a bit on history and the worker movements from early 1900's to mid 1900's. The right to strike was developed during that time period.

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on. Registered mail costs about USD 7 here. One would assume that it's at most 2-3 times that much in Korea. Call it USD 20. For 161 people that comes to...USD 3220. That's not exactly unreasonable considering that companies which are winding down their operations typically spend anywhere from a few thousand to a few million on legal fees associated with the process. It seems a small price to pay for meeting one's obligations in a dignified manner.

Not to mention the fact that this company isn't winding down its operations at all.

Now, to be fair, if I go on strike I would feel the company totally justified in letting me go after three days for job abandonment (in California, job abandonment is defined as failure to report in for three consecutive days without leave), so a notice of any kind to striking workers seems entirely unnecessary. But contracts and foreign law probably place entirely different requirements on this particular circumstance.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[jrexilius]

In america yes but I have been to Korea and any job is a good job. And that is a fairly well off country in comparison to much of the world.

I would say that Korea may get to the point where that statement is as true for them as it is for us and other G7 countries, but it aint there yet.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[Durandal64]

Kind of reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Burns flashed back to when he was a child with his father taking him through an old factory, before there were unions. As the 1920's variant of the teenage pubescent is being dragged off the floor, he says, "One day, we workers will form unions, so we can get the wages and benefits that we deserve! But then we'll go to far, and become corrupt ... and the Japanese will eat us alive."

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[jadavis]

It is much better for these low-wage companies to go out of business than to have them pay something very low.

What's wrong with hiring a kid to help build a fence on a weekend and paying them little? The kid has few responsibilities, and isn't accomplishing very much. He'd also be happy to get the money.

What's wrong with hiring a highschool student to do low-wage work as he lives with his parents? $4.00 an hour might pay for all the gas & food he needs.

The thing about minimum wage is that you're assuming that it's a career position, when in truth it's often a passing job on the way to bigger and better things. It's not good when young people have no opportunity to work a low-level job. How are they supposed to get experience and become more responsible?

Instead, young people can't find a low-responsibility, low-pay job. So, they just don't work. Then, when they're expected to be independent, they have no job experience at all, they just have a High School degree, which is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on (as far as representing knowledge and responsibility).

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[C10H14N2]

If a person worked 65 hours a week at $3 per hour, they'd still be homeless a year later. The reason there is a minimum wage is to ensure that you are paid at least enough to feed, clothe and house yourself. $20 per week? For full time? That's fifty cents per hour. That's not even a McDonald's value meal by the end of the day. Do you honestly think that if we got rid of the minimum wage that suddenly the cost of the necessities of life would go down or that a homeless person who can panhandle $20 per day would work for eight hours to receive less than the price of a hamburger? Please.

There are 25 million Americans are working full time for at or near minimum wage. If you eliminated their wages entirely, it would reduce the wage expenses of the country by 267 billion. That's if they were SLAVES. Total salaries and wages in the United States are roughly 6.5 trillion. Would you institute slavery to get a four percent discount at Taco Bell? No? Then, would you make someone work 80 hours a week just to be able to afford food and shelter so you could get a two percent discount on your McValue meal? 60 hours so you could get one percent? Where do you draw the line?

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[C10H14N2]

No, I get it and I've spent quite some time studying economics in order to "get it."

The problem is sustainability. You cannot sustain an economy where people are paid less than it costs to survive. The result is usually revolution. There's more at stake here than whether or not you spend $1.50 or $5.00 on your hamburger. If you can't see that, there's no argument that will convince you.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[fsmunoz]

Now, to be fair, if I go on strike I would feel the company totally justified in letting me go after three days for job abandonment

Wow, laws in the USA must be very different! Going on strike is totally different from job abandonment, workers strike is a legally valid option for Unions, which is turn are legally valid organizations of workers. Nobody can be fired for being on strike for 3,4 or more days, since a strike is a legal and valid form of protest. Not going to work for 3 days is a totally unrelated matter since I suppose that those days were not accounted for legally (sickness, pregnancy, etc).

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[FLEB]

Without a union supporting otherwise interchangable and easily-screwable workers, the company would have nothing to make amends *about*, since their dismally low wages would be "market wages" as usual.

No union:

Company lowers wages, but employees can't quit (can't afford to move, find a new job, etc.). Employers can keep cutting wages and benefits to a "barely living" wage. With lower labor costs, the company can cut retail price, maintain rising profits, and gain from both ends. To compete, other companies must follow suit. Overall market wages go down. Nobody's wages are below "market", but "market" sucks.

With union:

Company tries to lower wages. Union responds, stops work. Company is forced to negotiate, and keep wages high. Even non-union workers benifit, since the market retail and market wages are higher, and there is competition on a decent-wage playing field.

This works, of course, until someone finds a supply of non-union labor and finds it's easier to import, but... well... that's free trade.

Re:Wouldn't it be cheaper

[iopha]

Economics has to be the one highly mathematized discipline where, for some reason, isomorphism with reality just is not an issue.

The free market is only able to create economic equilibria in very idealized cases (perfect information, rationality, etc-- see the work of J. Steiglitz on this issue). It will *not* sort out wage and supply to 'optimal' conditions left to its own devices. If you read any history, you will see that it took sustained political pressure to get such luxuries as a 40-hour work week and a decent living wage. Capitalism was perfectly content with steep levels of social stratification for decades until political movements forced significant redistributive measures.
Moreover, the 'free market' has always required government intervention-- once again, a glance at history will show that, depending on context, protectionism, nationalization, subsidies, and/or free trade, privatization and laissez-faire were required. Your Chicago School view of economics is pretty much obsolete in serious academia. It lives on in corporate-funded think tanks which have, ironically enough, political motivations.

iopha

hmm

[Christoff84]

Well at least they saved a tree or two worth of pink slips. Although on Monday there are going to be a few pissed off people that had their phones off all weekend.

GOOD NEWS!

[jonfromspace]

You Are Fired!

Sucks to be Corben Dallas!

Re:U R FIRED

[petabyte]

*Warn*, *Warn*, *Warn*, *Block*!!

It's what they had...

[LostCluster]

This really wasn't PC instant messages but SMS text messages, which they use over there a whole lot more than we ever do. Since these workers were on strike, they couldn't very well be told at the office anyway.

It's not the first time this has happened

[alanw]

Bust company sacks workers by text

Friday, 30 May, 2003

The UK's largest personal injury claims firm, Accident Group, has sacked 2,400 people - many by text message - after its parent company Amulet Group announced on Friday that it would go into administration.

Staff with company mobile phones received a series of text messages, warning them that salaries would not be paid.

Accident group was a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers - you know the adverts - "have you suffered an injury - contact us and we'll sue for you" (and take a massive cut from any compensation).

Re:It's not the first time this has happened

[madpierre]

I remember this. The sacked staff went on a looting spree of their
offices as I recall. It was hillarious seeng all these middle class
lawyer types lugging chairs and stuff out of the building.

The company director did a runner to Spain I think. :D

heh

[Anonymous Coward]

The message sent was actually "SRY WE DNT ND U NEMRE KTHX BAI THX 4 WRK HRE".

And the employees were left wondering...

[PerlPo8]

Where's that middle finger emoticon again?

Re:And the employees were left wondering...

[Cliffy03]

"There is no emoticon to describe what I am feeling!"

This happened before in the UK

[cjellibebi]

In the UK where text-messages (SMS's) are old-hat, this has happened previously. See these articles on BBC news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2949578.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2043610 .stm

Re:The message was...

[WorkEmail]

We R Sry, but U R Fired. gtg, TTYL.

lmao.

Before you lose it...

[juuri]

... understand that Korea is a very different culture when it comes to cell phones and things like SMS than the USA. SMS usage is waaaaaaaay more common with everyone and people use SMS more frequently as it is much cheaper than actually talking on the phone.

My girlfriend who is Korean can friggen enter SMS messages by using the keypad faster than I can write them with a stylus on my p800; it is both awesome and scary at the same time.

Re:Before you lose it...

[WorkEmail]

Very true, in places in Europe most often Texting is so much cheaper than voice communication, so people become very fast at it. Becoming efficient with the T9 feature on phones is very important. I can send quick messages while I drive without even looking at my phone. Different phones have different methods of how you compose, read and send messages. Most new model phones come with T9(R) Predictive Text - when you start entering a word, you only have to press the key once for each letter and the phone will anticipate what word you are typing. T9(R) Predictive Text provides: Easy and fast text entry - just one key press per letter Nearly twice as fast as "multi-tap" text entry Ability to add custom words to your T9 dictionary Full punctuation and symbol capabilities Available in all major languages

Re:Before you lose it...

[Phroggy]

My girlfriend who is Korean can friggen enter SMS messages by using the keypad faster than I can write them with a stylus on my p800; it is both awesome and scary at the same time.

I remember hearing a comment about the effects of using SMS so much in Britain and Japan; someone said teenagers are so used to using their thumb on their phone that the thumb has become their dominant digit, and they use it for things like ringing doorbells etc.

Re:Before you lose it...

[MurphyZero]

Is that why New Yorkers use their middle finger to ring doorbells?

RTFA

[Brian Dennehy]

South Korea's third-largest credit card issuer fired a quarter of its workforce via mobile phone text messages on Friday, after negotiations with striking unionized workers broke down.

The firm said it had no method for contacting striking staff other than using the short message service (SMS).

I suppose, to them, it would be no different than calling them all up directly, other than the fact that that would take too long (plus, you'd have to put up with them complaining about getting fired, etc.).

McFly -- READ MY FAX!

[holt_rpi]

And who can forget the immortal words of Iko 'Jitz' Fujitsu: "Read my fax!"

Well, at least they didn't get it ALL wrong in Back to the Future II... the message was just delivered on cell phones instead of paper.

Where's my pizza rehydrator and hoverboard, anyway?

Tragic

[Bish.dk]

It's a tragedy for the people involved in the story.

I can't help but wonder if this story would have been posted under "It's funny. Laugh" if it had been an American company firing American workers.

Is it only funny because it is happening half a world away?

Re:Tragic

[LostCluster]

Most company busts are looked at as a tragic comedy in the end... these people went on strike fearing job cuts when they learned that their bankrupt company was about to be merged with a not bankrupt operation. It's hard to feel sympathy for a group that couldn't take their layoff gracefully when they're being told in an impersonal way.

teh msg

[pokka]

hi how r u? u gtg
u hv 4hr 2 get ur
stf out of ur dsk
hv a gr8 day cya

Fired OR?

[Marvelicious]

I'm trying to figure out which is worse: getting fired by IM or getting dumped by IM.

I do have to hand it to then for sheer cold-blooded brutality. The little devil guy that pops up over my right shoulder really got a kick out of this one!

Re:Fired OR?

[Marvelicious' Girl]

I didn't want it to come to this, but... I'm breaking up with you, K?

It just wasn't working out; I just couldn't compete with this stupid, ugly green website.

I want my car back, too.

Don't bother trying to come crawling back, we're through.

Like this way of breaking up with you? It's Toni's idea. Savor the sweet, sweet irony.

Fearing Job Cuts

[yintercept]

Unionized workers, who make up nearly 90 percent of the firm's 662 staff, have been on strike since mid-December over a takeover by Korea Exchange Bank (KEB), fearing job cuts.

Just a sec, I need to jot this down in my notebook of things not to do: Item 694: Go on strike to prevent job cuts.

That done, Marjorie Kelly makes a good point in her work The Divine Right of Capital that employees are are the wrong side of the ledger. People are expenses not stake holders. This creates the negative feedback that as productivity increases wages go down...not up.

This strike and instant death messages shows that confrontational method of strikes does not work well in a market that is suffering from over capacity. What needs to happen is we need to figure out how to get more people from the expense side of the ledger into the stake holder side of the ledger.

At least they got paid when they worked.

[www.sorehands.com]

At least they didn't work for a psycho like Barry Lewis. He of course claimed he sent paychecks, but they never arrived, he finally admitted that there was no money.

The last I heard of him is that he was on his way to the probation department after his criminal conviction.

Obligatory

[crawdaddy]

In A.D. 2004

KEB was firing

Worker: What happen?

Cellphone: Somebody set up us the IM.

AIM: We get message.

Worker: What!

AIM: Main screen turn on.

Worker: It's you!!

HR: How are you gentlemen!!

HR: All your jobs are belong to us!

Huh?

[jpellino]

"The firm said it had no method for contacting striking staff other than using the short message service (SMS)."

Um, they had the cell phone number needed to send the sms - buck up and call them.

Gutless

[HangingChad]

But a lot of companies are using Email to fire people to avoid dealing with it face to face. I can understand it, but these people have invested 1/3 of their weekday lives working for your company. Time they can never get back. You'd think they'd at least be due the courtesy of hearing it directly. No outplacement assistance, nothing. Tossed aside like a used Kleenex.

I'd suggest start working on your own business. It's not that hard to do. And with companies pushing more of the grunt paperwork down on already over-worked people, you might find it's less work than some of you are doing now. The big expense for most people is health insurance.

So...

[RoadkillBunny]

...if I don't have a mobile phone, I wouldn't get fired?

Instant Message != Text Message

[Aphrika]

Here in the UK, an instant message would be sent via AIM or MS Messenger. Phone to phone messaging is called text messaging. It's real name is SMS - simple message services - but no-one calls it that anymore.

I'd be much more impressed if someone was fired via an instant message:

Bob has signed in
Bob says: Morning Alex
Alex says: Hi Bob
Bob says: You're fired.
Bob has left the conversation

Re:Instant Message != Text Message

[t_allardyce]

I think in other parts of the world its known as an instant message because it arrives at the other phone instantly, where-as here in the uk, o2 delivers it afew hours later because a 160 byte message is oh so traffic intensive.

Fired by text message? That's nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

In Saudi Arabia and many other muslim countries, you can get divorced by text message!

To be fair, it's not text messaging that is the issue. In many muslim countries saying, "I divorce you" three times is enough for divorce. SMS is just the medium for carrying the divorce messages.

Perhaps that explains the "You're Fired!" spam...

[Ron Bennett]

Sure others received similar spam awhile back titled "You're Fired". While I realize SMS is different, and more secure...I still wonder about the security...

What's to stop some spoofer/hacker/etc from sending out bogus, legit looking "You're Fired!" SMS - say from a stolen/borrowed/hacked cellphone or computer, etc of the company.

Even if it later is revealed the "You're Fired!" SMS were bogus, the damage is already done...

Ron

Back in '78

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

I was working field service for a minicomputer company. I was beeped on my pager then when I called in, I was told I was laid off.

Legal strength ?

[lkratz]

I don't know what are the job laws in South-Korea. But in most of European countries, theses SMS have probably no legal binding between employer and employees. The company still have to send some kind of registered letter "snail mail". Even if people are in strike and difficult to reach, I see no company advantage to send SMS to warn employees they are fired, they still need to send letters. And there effective dismissal starts when they receive there registered letter.

There's also an issue about SMS authentication, do you think these 161 recipients know their HR manager GSM number and are able to verify the author of the message ? Could be anyone sending you that message : "you are fired. signed J.M. KEB Credit Service HR Manager"

Coming soon to your linux desktop

[Mixel]

"You have IM!" *ding* SCO has joined the conversation *ding* DeptOfJustice has joined the conversation

Could be worse

[Anonymous Coward]

At a PPOE, we came in one day to find out about 1/3 of the office
couldn't get e-mail. Since corporate HQ was in another time zone, we
had to wait a couple of hours until the IT guys got in. The IT guys
passed the buck for a while until finally we were told that the folks who
couldn't get their e-mail were laid off.

Happened in the UK too last year

[Alan Cox]

Admittedly since the company were "personal injury lawyers" nobody could decide whether to feel outraged over the method used or happy that the people lost their jobs...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2949578.stm

Re:Happened in the UK too last year

[AardvarkOfFnords]

One of the branches (Birmingham) was in the same building as the one I work in. Many (all?) of the people were already owed wages, and guessed something was happening. The offices were looted for laptops etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/29 52194.stm

Re:Happened in the UK too last year

[ozric99]

My favourite quote from that piece:

Speaking from his 3m mansion in North Rode, Cheshire, he said: "I'm absolutely devastated"

Why does slashdot not recognise Pound signs? Sigh...

Re:Oh the irony

[otis wildflower]

Fired by crappest, most rip-off messaging system known to man with a 160 character limit

All you need is 6 characters...

urfyrd

The AC is a Manager

[Winkhorst]

The AC is obviously someone who either owns a business or is a professional who sees himself as part of management rather than as part of the work force. I'm reminded of Howard Stern, who was a fan of George W Bush until George's FCC chairman got him knocked off the air in six markets. Sorry for the bluntness but it has to be said: Being an ass-kisser doesn't guarantee you won't be dumped on. It just makes it taste worse.

Instant??? What's instant about an SMS?

[canavan]

I'm really wondering who had the audacity of naming Short Messages "instant messages" - there's nothing instant about them at all. They can (and really do) take up to 7 days to get delivered, even if one's phone has good reception for almost all the time.

Re:The message was...

[StuWho]

All your wages are belong to us

Just running an errand...

[mac os ken]

thx 4 teh msg
i jst at teh
GUNS n AMMO
STOR i am stndin
in lobby now l8tr

Re:The message was...

[NanoGator]

Well I don't know about you guys, but I'm filling out an expense report for the $0.10 charge on my phone bill for recieving that message.

Worse ways of getting fired...

[identity0]

At least they weren't fired in a Slashdot post. Other humiliating geek ways of being fired:

Your employer uploads pinkslip.txt to the CVS tree of the free software project you've been spending all your time on.

Your boss cracks your home machine and leaves the message "J00 ar3 n07 1337. F10R3D!!!!11!1!"

Boss takes you to a fancy Indian restaurant. When the waiter comes, he says "Yes, we're ready to order - by the way, Bob, Mahel here will be replacing you in two days."

They FedEx you a cell phone while you work, a la the Matrix. It rings, and when you answer, a mysterious deep voice tells you, "Look at the hall by the elevator. They're coming for you, Neo". You look, and you see a group of HR people coming to fire your sorry ass, being directed towards your cubicle. Being a geek, you immediately re-enact the scene where the agents(HR people) are trying to hunt Neo(you) while he talks to Morpheus(the mysterious stranger).

You think, "This is it. The thing I have been waiting for all my life - confirmation that I AM the One! Haha, I'm not a loser, suckers!" However all your hopes come crashing to an end when the guy on the phone says "Oh what the hell. You're fired anyway whether they find you or not. I've been leading you on for my own amusement, but now it's gotten boring. Clever hack, eh? btw, you're not The One, you'll never touch Trinity, and you're still just a loser without a job." In desperation you fling yourself out the 10th-floor window to confirm you have super powers or die trying. You die trying. However you prove the hacker wrong on one point when you DO touch Carrie-Anne Moss at the last moment of your life, crushing her to death between you and her motorcycle.

sorry

[moondo]

well, i must apologize... i never knew this would become such a big thing.

guys guys guys...

the boss(mr. kim) was on his lunch break, but he left his cellphone on the desk. i was wondering what could be a practical joke to play on my fellow colleagues and, well, ended sending these you've been fired messages. sorry if i scared the fuckin shit out of you.

i'll see you on monday at work.

R:"Y'v Gt Vctn!"

[H4x0r Jim Duggan]

but at least you'd get formal(/angry/justified) talks or letters. In South Korea, 161 workers just recieved:

ur frd. No jb 4u
n e mor. no $ in
bnk, cnt get cred,
cnt mk chex. Thnx,
sorry, Gd luck!!!!
-----
This SMS service
is provided by KEB
Credit Service