PostgreSQL Ported to GameCube, Linux Progressing

Cant Wait by Robmonster · 2004-02-13 00:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

I loved the first 2 Thief games on the PC. They inspired the current generation of Sneak-em-ups.

I am waiting for the demo!

RM

--
I have no sig yet I must scream.

Re:Cant Wait by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 07:39 · Score: 1, Insightful

How is this any different from Doom III, Civilization III, Quake III, or any sequel for that matter?
Who cares if it's the same gameplay - there's a new storyline, different characters and different situations. I'm sure there are going to be different weapons too.

So quit your senseless bitching.

For Great Justice by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 01:12 · Score: 0

and my great XBox accelerate everything...

All your X are belong to Box.

Use this handy tool to save time here! by superultra · 2004-02-13 01:17 · Score: 5, Funny

Ok, while the posting is sparse here, allow me to save everyone some precious time. Just adjust the variables and you'll be good to post. I make no promises but I'm customized the options so as for you to, perhaps, score a nice 4 slab of that karma we're all talking about oh yeah. So here goes:

Did you see [that article, thosescreenshots]?!? Obviously Warrn Spector has lost it. I played and finished [Deus Ex, Thief 1 & 2, System Shock 1 & 2, and Ultima Underworld, all of the above] at least [seven, eight] times the day the game came out, and this is so far from his original vision that he's lost control of his own company. Ok, ok, the graphics are good, but the game runs like ice cream melting in [Alaska, Antarctica] on my [twin processor gold plated 3.2 pentiums, IBM PS/2, Dreamcast running bedian off a burned ISO, Mac]. This whole [transition to third person, revised weapons system, checkpoints, lack of a 255 key controller] just means they are sharing the [pocket protector, pants, mouth] of Bill Gates with an Xbox. Just because [there's more money to be had in consoles, consoles don't have the same customer support issues as PCs, consoles are getting the majority of creative games these days, there's more money to be had in consoles, more people play their consoles for games than PCs, there's more money to be had in consoles] doesn't emean that they should abandon the peeps who got them there.

I've had it up to [here, here, here]. At least we still have [Half-Life 2, Doom III, Team Fortress 2, Duke Nukem Forever, Tycoon games, Mythica] and they're staying true to the cause. So, screw you [Warren Spector, Ion Storm, $icro$soft]! I'm not even going to buy Thief III, I'll just [pirate it, borrow it from a friend, make my own damn Thief game]. PC [ROXOR, KIXASS] [!!!!!, !!!!, !!!!!!]

Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by imr · 2004-02-13 01:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's not funny, it's true.
I know such a fan, and he was genuinly disappointed by deus ex2 look and feel on the pc. He wasnt a ms or console basher until that game but became one immediatly. And when he heard about thief 3 being 3rd person view, the sadness in his eyes!
It's always hard to be betrayed by those you respect the more.
Come on, those games are about immersion! You can't have a feeling of immersion following a puppet from above!
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by analog_line · 2004-02-13 02:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, it's not especially funny, because it merely stokes the hordes of mindless people who froth at the mouth over console games. It's stupid to get wrapped up in a franchise so much that when it goes a different direction, you get enraged.

Me, I didn't like Deus Ex 1, so I wasn't going to be buying Deus Ex 2 in any case. I have played and enjoyed Thief 1 and 2 a lot (like, two of my favorite games ever), and the previews for Thief 3 haven't yet convinced me to buy it. I may download a demo, but I don't know if I even want to bother wasting the bandwidth on that. If I don't like it, I'll buy something else. People who steal games they claim to not like confuse me. If you don't like it, why in the world do you bother wasting disk space on it?
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by AllUsernamesAreGone · 2004-02-13 02:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

It's stupid to get wrapped up in a franchise so much that when it goes a different direction, you get enraged.

I'd agree in general, but Thief is a little.. different. Part of the point behind it was to get the player wrapped up in it: a lot of its atmosphere depended on it. And it worked, it worked so well that when LGS died the community mourned but carried on. Not only are there still a large number of people making missions for it, in many cases of better quality than the original missions, and several immensely ambitious projects are effectively creating new Thief games in the Dark engine. The fans of the game know how it works, what makes it work well and how to improve the game to make the final part of the trilogy the best of the series. These are people who know Thief as well or better than most, if not all, of the team working on T3. If T3 ends up in the same mess as DX2, with dodgy graphics quality, painful framerate, tiny areas, rediculous level mechanics and all the other criticisms that were leveled at Dx2 (and, so far, very little has been released that would seem to suggest it won't) there will be a lot of very angry Thief fans, because that wouldn't be taking the franchise in a different direction, it would be gutting it.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by analog_line · 2004-02-13 03:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

I don't argue any of that. I'm EXTREMELY dubious about the new Thief, and frankly, I have been ever since Looking Glass went away, but I can still keep playing the old stuff and just not bother with Thief 3. Voting with my wallet.

I still play Thief 1 and 2 pretty regularly, and if people just make more missions for it, I don't see, in the end, a real problem. Sure I'd like to have a better graphicsed version of 1 and 2, but I'll still take what I have with people making new stuff for it. Hell, I've played Half Life mods for as long as I've played Thief. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I'll be angry if the new one sucks, but angry isn't near the kind of bile that people lately seem to be heaping on stuff lately. They didn't slit your brother's throat, they made a crappy sequel.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by imr · 2004-02-13 04:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

The person I talk about is nowhere a mindless person. His speech is really very close to yours.
It's just that it's not its favorite game. It's his favorite genre, the last game of this genre and the creator of the best games of the genre, all going to the toilets together, because one has to design his games for the console first, now, period.
And on top of that, he has to listen to this designer telling him, like "straight in the eyes", that no, the console gameplay doesnt impact on the game, it works well.
So, yes he has become a console hater and a ms one too, because he feels that the games were designed for the xbox (i don't know if there any rationale behind this point, tho'), but not in a mindless way. More in a cold, resolute way. Sometimes, it takes small, apparently meaningless events to make you realize bigger pictures. Like, couldnt the console market kill the pc games?
This one is sure it can.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by AvitarX · 2004-02-13 05:21 · Score: 1

It truly is much easier to get immersed with a 10-15 degreviewing angle.

Especially in a game about awareness of your surrounding.

cutting out the extra 90 degrees I see in real life by unconciously glancing left and right truly ups the immersion level a ton.

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 05:25 · Score: 0

I agree, but how many good mario games have they made since Mario64? Its sad to see something that could have been better than the original get "taken in a new direction" which totally blows monkey goats. Sure, the new direction may appeal to others, but you want more of the first.

Deus Ex 2 sucked because I could beat it in 4 hours. I wanted options, I wanted choices! I wanted better AI! or at least more of it considering it sucked!

Why do people steal games? Because they cant rent them, and if they could, they wouldnt buy them.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by analog_line · 2004-02-13 06:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

I dunno, I kind of look at it like Highlander fans tend to look at Highlander 2 and 3. If you hate the story, just ignore it. No one says you have to buy it or even acknowledge it exists. The console gaming market didn't turn Deus Ex 2 into a steaming crapfest. The people who decided that it should be for console primarily did.

Microsoft I have no problem hating. I'm sure they're part of the problem here. I was furious at Microsoft for buying off Sega to screw over Dreamcast owners on the US release of Shenmue 2 by making it an Xbox exclusive. Ditto on Jet Set Radio Future. Eidos/Ion Storm are the ones calling the shots here, and they're the ones that deserve the derision, not consoles in general. Hell, I'm working to wean myself off of PC gaming because I'm working to wean myself off of Microsoft products altogether, 'cause you can't play PC games on anything but Windows. WineX doesn't work enough for me, so the only thing left is consoles.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by blincoln · 2004-02-13 07:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's his favorite genre, the last game of this genre and the creator of the best games of the genre, all going to the toilets together, because one has to design his games for the console first, now, period.

I see this same attitude with *my* favourite series (see sig), and I still don't understand it.

How is a game designed for a PC instead of a console allegedly superior? Is it the ton of unnecessary control options? The ability to play with a keyboard and mouse? The possibility of bragging to your friends about how your $400 video card gives you 5 more fps?

Part of the reason I switched to console games is that I vastly prefer the more straightforward control schemes (I hate the keyboard + mouse combination) and knowing that if I buy a game for any of my systems, I don't need to worry about whether or not it will run.

The *only* possible advantage I see to PC gaming over consoles is the ability to mod games, and none of the games I'm interested in support that anyway.

--
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by stinkbomb · 2004-02-13 09:41 · Score: 1

several immensely ambitious projects are effectively creating new Thief games in the Dark...

Wow! That IS ambitious! I'd have a hard time creating a game with the lights on!
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by AllUsernamesAreGone · 2004-02-13 10:00 · Score: 0, Troll

It is harder to make Thief levels with the lights on actually - you need the dark to be able to check that the lighting in game is correct. ;)
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by imr · 2004-02-13 11:36 · Score: 1

I dunno, I hated highlander 1. :)

The people who decided that it should be for console primarily did.
Yes, that's the problem. The console market is so huge, this dumbass is listened to. When someone figures out that the port don't sell well because they're designed for console and suck in front of regular pc games, and if they can make more selling a pc version than it cost to have it adapted, then we wont see such fiasco again. Otherwise, they will continue to release those hmmm things.
Dreamcast... best console ever... what a shame. Another one. Stupid market, stupid executives, stupid customers.

I'm a gamer since 74 and taito space invaders. I've been on linux for 4 years and never looked back.
I don't need this huge quantity of games. I just need a few game i can play for years. Quake3 mods still do it (hey! quake2 mods still do it. Action quake2 is still the greatest mod ever.) NWN can last for years. I got anachronox at the bargain bin, and this one too will last for years. I have system shock 2 on my shelf and wait for it to be playable under wine. fallouts, baldurs, warzone2100, unreals, ta, emulators (i play games i used to play in the 70s and 80s with nostalgia and show them to my kids!),i got most of lokis and lgps games.
I havent enough time to play all those, and yet, they all are incredibly good games.
How can I be a hardcore gamer and on linux at the same time?
I'm completly immunized to hype.
I don't need that hundred of warezed games that the common gamer seem to install/uninstall in a row, before finding the good one. I've done it in my time, except it was on audio tapes. The truth is simple. We all know before buying it, when a game is crap or excellent. It's 99% sure. We just fell for the hype. I don't anymore. ANd i never pay full price for anything that won't last for a minimum of 3 years, like quake3 or nwn (adventure games are the best thing in the world. I still have grim fandango on the "to play before death" shelf.
Well, enough of that old timer stuff, I'm not that old and I have this UT2004 demo to test. So far, it looks very very good. Could be the surprise of the year.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by imr · 2004-02-13 11:52 · Score: 1

How is a game designed for a PC instead of a console allegedly superior?
A good console game design can be wasted when ported to the pc by bad design decision.
The size and the feel of the deus ex II interface comes immediatly to my mind. The size, the ergonomy, what a waste of pixels in a game where you expect to be completly taken by and into the surroundings of the action aka the universe, and not by and against the interface.

A good pc game that rely on the pc particularities, like you said the keyboard and the mouse for example, cannot be ported to a console without a keyboard and a mouse.
I have nothing against console gamepad and console game design, I had some of my best memories of games under the cbm 64 with a one button joystick.

So it's not about pc or console games being better, it's about console and pcs not having the same interfaces, meaning different games, and gamers looking for different things, as you said yourself.
If I had to force me into detailing their true diffence, I would say the pc is more versatile and the console is more reactive. But it's a cheap statement.
Re:Use this handy tool to save time here! by Spiffae · 2004-02-15 06:12 · Score: 1

Did you see those screenshots?!? Obviously Warrn Spector has lost it. I played and finished Deus Ex, Thief 1 & 2, System Shock 1 & 2, and Ultima Underworld at least seven times the day the game came out, and this is so far from his original vision that he's lost control of his own company. Ok, ok, the graphics are good, but the game runs like ice cream melting in Alaska on my Dreamcast running bedian off a burned ISO. This whole transition to third person just means they are sharing the pants off Bill Gates with an Xbox. Just because there's more money to be had in consoles, consoles don't have the same customer support issues as PCs, consoles are getting the majority of creative games these days, more people play their consoles for games than PCs, there's more money to be had in consoles doesn't emean that they should abandon the peeps who got them there.

I've had it up to here. At least we still have Half-Life 2 and they're staying true to the cause. So, screw you $icro$soft! I'm not even going to buy Thief III, I'll just pirate it. PC ROXOR!!!!!

Warren Spector claimed DXIW would translate well by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 02:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think this is just damage control, as Thief III was in development before the DXIW hit the fan, as it were.

I guarantee Thief III has Xbox-sized maps in the PC version, and just like DXIW I guarantee that it will ruin the game.

Not me... by BadmanX · 2004-02-13 02:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

They got me with DX:IW - I bought it at full price even after playing the demo and seeing the drastic changes they made to the game, in the hopes that there would still be something there. Ten hours later, I finished the game, watched all the endings, and uninstalled it. The experience was thoroughly mediocre. The odds are very good I'll never play that game again.

Thief: Deadly Shadows is using the exact same engine and was designed in the exact same way - as an Xbox game first. It's going to suffer from the same problems DX:IW did - small areas, limited interaction, difficult to use interface. And what the hell was wrong with the name Thief III?

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Re:Not me... by mahdi13 · 2004-02-13 06:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

DX:IW wasn't a terrible game, but it was not nearly as good as it could of been. There were times that were edge of the seat tension, but most if it was pretty laid back.

The frame rate sucked. But it didn't kill the game
The Levels were tiny, very clausterphobic inducing, but it didn't kill the game
Interface was very awkward, but it didn't kill the game
What did kill the game was that it took a total of 10 hours to complete and was very easy (in terms of puzzle solving...were there any?)

I'm hoping that with Thief III, they can optimize the engine, make larger maps and make better use of the engine in general.

And Liberty Island at the end of DXIW was a joke, 4 seperate maps for what a 5 year old engine did with one map

--
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Re:Not me... by *weasel · 2004-02-13 07:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

it played fine on my xbox. not to troll, but it isn't the console market's fault if the developer shows preference. rail at the game, that's fine - but when people try to take the argument to the philosophical side (consoles suck, they shouldn't have released for the consoles, etc, etc) they just end up sounding like loons..

the complaint that translates from console to PC equally is the tiny tiny 'maps'. If there were too many interactive objects in each map - then for chrissakes just make some boxes or pews static, drop some polygons, lower particle count - something.

aside from the maps i thought it was pretty standard Spector-type stuff. *Although if they plan on railroading all the possible story 'branches' back to the same core events, maybe they should just remove them? If there's no functional difference between choices, they are false choices.

You'd think a company who defined the terminology for exactly such a behavior would recognize it.

--
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Re:Not me... by blincoln · 2004-02-13 08:14 · Score: 1

difficult to use interface.

I am not really a Deus Ex fan, but I played the demo and I thought the interface was nicely done. What didn't people like about it?

--
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Re:Not me... by inkless1 · 2004-02-13 08:29 · Score: 1

You know this 10 hour thing baffles me.

I think I spent about 2 or 3 hours on the demo alone. That's just one level.

Maybe people should stop playing every game like Quake Done Quick and enjoy the sights a bit more.

title by mwheeler01 · 2004-02-13 02:52 · Score: 1, Insightful

Jeez, the title of the post makes it sound like a really hard game.

Guard:"Hey look I see him"
Theif to himself: "Must hide! but where? there's just too much light!"

I'm sorry, just had to be said.

--
Pretty widgets? What pretty widgets?

Nooo! by xNoLaNx · 2004-02-13 06:26 · Score: 0

The horse is dead, so everyone put the bats down. Please? No, don't pick up the "GOLD" bat...

worried - PC and Xbox games suffer by osejw · 2004-02-13 06:31 · Score: 3, Interesting

Really liked Thief 1 and 2 and DeusEx. I heard all these good things about the Xbox Halo, tried it for the first time on PC and it was mediocre at best. Poor graphics and poor frame rate. The same textures over and over again, the same rooms over and over again. I am not hearing good things about DeusExIW ... but I have not tried it yet. XBox+PC games seem to inherit the problems of each platform and lack any benefits one could releaize if the game was developed for a single platform. Just some thoughts ... I really hope Thief III is a great game but I will likely wait for the reviews.

So by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 06:44 · Score: 0

Will the Japanese buy this, or will they stick to things they understand, like making those wierd dancing games and programming giant robots to molest schoolgirls?

Life of the Party by happyhippy · 2004-02-13 07:54 · Score: 3, Informative

If the levels are smaller (no loads needed) than Thief 2's brilliant level 'Life of the Party' the game is going to suck shit. Fuck you and your load mist.

Whaaaaa? by Black+Hitler · 2004-02-13 15:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

We watched as Garrett carefully avoided the gate guards and downed one of them with an arrow to the head; then he finished off the others.

What the hell? Does Garrett have super-powers now? Finishing off one guard out of a group was hard enough in parts 1 and 2, never mind taking out the whole bunch at once.

Re:Whaaaaa? by Lathan · 2004-02-13 18:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's not all that impossible. One arrow takes the first guard, but the rest get suspicious. Then it's about three more arrows per guard since they're looking. If you're out of the way (preferably vertically) enough, they won't be able to get you. In Thief 2, I evaded a bunch of guards by climbing up a rope and just hanging there right above their heads. They never looked up.
Re:Whaaaaa? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 18:48 · Score: 1, Insightful

So what you're saying is, Thief 3 will have shitty AI.
Re:Whaaaaa? by happyhippy · 2004-02-14 03:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

They never follow you up ropes. They do see you and they do stand at the bottom going 'Come down Taffer!' and shake their fists.
Its not shitty AI, its prob the shitty graphics that prevents them from climbing ropes.
Re:Whaaaaa? by Robmonster · 2004-02-15 10:46 · Score: 1

What they mean is that any decent AI would treat the death of a colleage via an arrow through the head to be slightly more than suspicious.

Guard 1:- Hey wheres Bob?
Guard 2:- He's lying on the floor over there with an arrow through his head.
Guard 1:- How did that happen then?
Guard 2:- Not really sure. There was a whoooshing noise, then he keeled over.
Guard 1:- Think we should look around?
Guard 2:- Nah, I'm not quite suspicious enough. I'll wait until you get taken out, then I'll look around a bit

--
I have no sig yet I must scream.

a little prayer by Jerebus · 2004-02-14 11:11 · Score: 1

Thief 3 Dot org

Why? by skermit · 2004-03-06 23:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't see ANY possible use for this other than to earn geek points to spent at the next LARPG meeting...

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/

Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-06 23:56 · Score: 3, Funny

Bacause XBox and PS2 DON'T have PostgreSQL.

That's why... muahahahaha... let the fanboy flamewars begin...
Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:03 · Score: 0

The idea is to piss off PS2 and XBox owners so they can continue bitching about Gamecube and justifying their purchase.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 01:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

dude, the gamecube is a $99 computing device. it is about on par with the $20,000 computing device i once had to use, in the 80's, in terms of processing power and capabilities.

why -shouldn't- this be done?

i never had a reason to get into game consoles before, but now that i can build a $150 database server and stick it on my network, i've got a whole new platform for the home, knowing that the hardware is pretty much rock-solid, dependable.

PC's might be 'better', but you can't beat game-console economics when it comes to computing ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by damiam · 2004-03-07 02:08 · Score: 2, Informative

XBox, being a regular x86 system, has just about any DB you want to throw on it, including Postgres, MySQL, Firebird, DB2, and even Oracle.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Why? by BW_Nuprin · 2004-03-07 03:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well, I'm excited about the possibility of using the Gamecube's very good TV output to watch my TV show DivX's on. I have a dedicated computer for it in the living room, but its TV-out port is very touchy, and doesn't look very good anyway.
Re:Why? by rtaylor · 2004-03-07 04:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

Granted there isn't much use, but there is some.

The PostgreSQL port to the PS2 (quite a while back) made a performance issue on certain platforms very obvious. I believe as a result the Itanium port recieved a bit of a speed boost (common issue).

Simply put, looking at something from a new angle doesn't hurt any of the currently existing platforms, and often it will help.

It's the same reason many developers like to use more than one compiler. One will sometimes warn about things the other doesn't catch.

--
Rod Taylor
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-07 06:19 · Score: 3, Informative

Dude, unless you plan on storing your whole database in RAM or on a memory card there's very little point in using the Cube as a database server. The machine's network connection is also limited (by the bus the NIC is connected to) so its use even as a frontend is questionable. Hack value, but not any practical value.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 07:19 · Score: 1

... and why wouldn't i store a database in RAM or on a memory card, if I can do it ...

honestly, people are so stupidly negative at times. for every technological single step forward, there's some asshole saying it shouldn't be done, its not useful, it has no purpose.

so many things we have all come to take for granted now, started this way.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-07 08:05 · Score: 2, Funny

If you read the announcement you probably noticed that even the people who did the port aren't too serious about it, because it's just too damn slow. Right tools for the right job etc.
The big steps forward have been the exploitation of the PSO update mechanism to boot selfmade code and the reverse-engineering of the hardware that made the Linux port possible. Compiling a software package after that is mostly an excercise in masochism but nothing insanelygreat.
So yeah, I stand by my statement that trying to use a Gamecube as a database server is pointless especially if it must be backed by a storage server, eliminating the cost argument. I've been hacking on console hardware for about five years now, and while it's fun for the most part it is totally pointless and without purpose. So you know, fuck yourself, asshole.
Re:Why? by bmomjian · 2004-03-07 08:24 · Score: 1

PostgreSQL runs on the PS2 too.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 09:00 · Score: 0, Troll

If you read the announcement you probably noticed that even the people who did the port aren't too serious about it, because it's just too damn slow. Right tools for the right job etc.

I've got $99 in my pocket, I'm in any one of about 15,000 different marketplaces in the world, and I need a computer I can stick in the middle of nowhere to watch my crops, keep track of temperature, and make sure I'm getting my quota of water from the local UN pump. I do not give a single damn fuck how 'slow' it is, I just want my crop to grow properly so I can feed my family.

You go fuck yourself, small, narrow-minded, box-dwelling purposeless cretin.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by toast0 · 2004-03-07 12:26 · Score: 1

And you need a database server for that?

--
Need a Catering Connection
Re:Why? by toast0 · 2004-03-07 12:32 · Score: 1

The PS2 also has a hard disk available... so you could conceivably want to run a database server
using a PS2.

You'ld have to have a really specialized application to want the gamecube to run a database server, since it has nearly no local storage, and I hear the network performance isn't that great either.

--
Need a Catering Connection
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-07 13:07 · Score: 1

Check your facts before you start calling people names.
Gamecube - $100
Broadband adapter - $40
Phantasy Star Online Ep. I&II - $30-40
Computer needed to bootstrap the whole shebang - $100
Add a bit more for assorted network gear and memory cards and you're up to about $300. Why not take that money and get yourself a slightly better computer straight away? Just face it, this is even more of a toy than Dreamcast Linux, which at least had the advantage of being able to boot directly from a CD.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 19:59 · Score: 1

If I'm going to share data with the UN and other farmers in my valley, Postgres would be a nice way to do it. It could be a flat text file too, but the point is ... now there's an option in case a flat text file isn't adequate...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 20:01 · Score: 1

Um, you're the one who started calling people names...

Just face it, your life lacks inspiration. You probably watch too much television, you have no idea how big and wide and wonderful the world is ... my advice to you: Kill your TV.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-07 21:17 · Score: 1

You might want to go back and read your reply to my first post in this thread. Also, didn't anyone ever teach you about making assumptions about people? As I already said, I hack on console hardware. I do it because I enjoy it, and I understand the motivation behind the port very well. But you won't convince me that a Gamecube would make a useful database server, especially with ad hominem attacks.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 21:35 · Score: 1

I never called you an asshole. It was you who told me to "fuck yourself, asshole". I guess you assumed I was referring to you, when in fact I wasn't, directly. All I did was make a general observation about how there's always an asshole who doesn't get it, who craps on the new progress, and tries to infect other people with his ignorance. I didn't, actually, get around to calling you an asshole until after you'd had a little temper tantrum in response.

I don't give a fuck if you've been 'hacking on console hardware'. I've been building computing systems since Carter was in office. And I do see the value of a cheap, ubiquitous computing platform designed for the masses having Postgres capabilities added to it, not to mention the Linux kernel in general ... it may not play pretty with your idealized notions of what a 'computer' is, but it sure does allow people like me to take the ball, run with it, and do good things for a lot of people.

Really, a Nintendo game console, buried in a bucket in a field somewhere, powered by the village 20-year old deisel generator, watching crops, regulating water supply, and giving farmers good control over things such as fertilization, would do a loooot of good. I could buy 100 of these systems for the cost of one Microsft-based solution, and I could feel very comfortable burying them in buckets, hanging them from trees, putting one in the elders' ramshackle shack on the side of a rubbish dump somewhere. Why? Because it is commodity hardware; if something goes wrong, I can have my American friend, at a minimum, walk to his nearest Costco, buy a pallet of them, and ship them to me overnight. Or I could take a bus into Nephal, hit the tourist market, and buy myself a ton of cheap RAM cartridges, knowing full well that they're stable, they work, and they'll last better than the vanilla-box PC's my good friends like to think make a 'real computer'.

And yes, having Postgres online, slow as it is, would be a good thing. If I have 3,000 of these Nintendo's buried in fields somewhere, it sure would be nice to be able to treat them all as a large, query-able database system...

Just -think- a little more about things before you crap on them.

And yes, you did crap on this idea without thinking about it, just admit it. Your western ideals for what makes a 'useful computer' are pretty much driven by your own participation in a capitalist market designed to do everything it can to extract every little bit of cash from its players. You don't need 3ghz of computing power to do good work with computers. You don't -need- the latest and greatest RAM technology in order to provide 2 years of stable, resilient, reliable data logging services for water and irrigation control.

A Nintendo running Linux is a good thing.

Its the worst of Western decadence, combined with the best of Western philanthropy, and it could make a huge difference in the 3rd World, where computers, and computing systems in general, are not cost effective enough to really make a difference ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-07 23:09 · Score: 1

You really know fuck all about me, stop thinking you do.
The Gamecube is hardly suitable for the use you have in mind - the hassle of booting the system should be enough of an indicator (you have tried it, haven't you?)
How does your solution compare to a cheap computer collecting data from remote sensors, keeping in mind that the Cube is designed for living-room use only? Leave it out in the sun and it'll overheat. Leave it out in the dirt and the fan breaks down. Leave it out in the rain and it'll fry. Maybe you're counting on the machines being so cheap that your third-world farmer can buy a new one every time that happens? Assuming, of course, there's a Nintendo retailer around the corner, which there usually isn't. And there's no computer stores or electronics stores either, which is the usual problem the "let's make high-tech available for everyone"-people forget about.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-07 23:48 · Score: 1

How does your solution compare to a cheap computer collecting data from remote sensors, keeping in mind that the Cube is designed for living-room use only?

Where is the $99 computer that I can buy anywhere in the world? Please tell me.

I can put a Nintendo Gamecube in a bucket, seal it with a $2 tube of silicon sealant, bury it in the ground with some cables coming out of it, and walk away knowing that it will be okay. No 'special' hardware, no 'PC-104 formfactor', nothing. Just cheap, commodity game hardware, no big loss, nothing special.

Boot speed? Hassle booting? This is a trivial problem. FSO is required now, but it won't be long until a resilient solution is implemented by someone who actually cares enough to keep working on this issue... instead of sitting around complaining about how 'stupid' it is to do things like this.

You don't get it do you? You can get Nintendo-GC's *anywhere*. In India, if I buy enough of them, I can get them for as low as $30 a piece ... and no, computer/electronics stores don't matter. If something goes wrong, just get another GC, put it in the bucket, bury it in the ground.

Sheesh. You are such an ass. Give up pretending you know what you're talking about already, this thread is over ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-08 01:59 · Score: 1

Want to go cheap? Buy one of the many routers running or capable of running Linux. Excellent availability, no moving parts and no need to buy anything extra (LAN adapters/boot-PCs/mods). PDAs are another obvious choice (how much do the Simputers go for?) and are available now, instead of having to wait for a mod that may or may not appear. And if one does appear, chances are it won't be free.
I could also add that in many of the places that could use this sort of help, even $30 is way too much money, especially if you're supposed to pay it again and again just because "it broke". Something like a microcontroller with some flash would be closer to the desired price range.
Gee, more namecalling. Maybe it's not my life that lacks inspiration. You probably sit in front of the computer way too much, you have no idea how big and wonderful the world is... my advice to you: Kill yourself.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-08 02:19 · Score: 1

Simputers failed. $300 is too much money to spend. Routers? Show me a router I can buy, in quantity, at $30 a piece (like I can with Nintendo Gamecubes). What part of "GameCubes are available in markets everywhere in the world" do you not understand?

As for my travel history, I'm on my 4th almost-full passport, actually, and have lived in more places on this planet than most Americans know how to find on a map.

{Your Mom smells funny and your Dad has a boyfriend he doesn't tell anyone about ...}

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by antime · 2004-03-08 05:47 · Score: 1

$300? I thought the things were designed to be cheap!
Routers that run full Linux can be had for about $50 (retail, US prices). Most home ADSL/cablemodem/routers seem to be based on ARM7 chips, regardless of brand, and can be made to run uClinux. They can be had for $30 (again retail US prices). I don't know wholesale prices but I'm sure Linksys will give you a quote if you're serious about buying a few thousand.
I do think you're overly optimistic about the availability of Gamecubes. Many years ago I was helping out with a development project to send solar cookers to places like rural Namibia. I'm quite certain that the recipients of said cookers still do not have access to videogame consoles.
As for your travel history, filling four passports travelling to Thailand to visit ladyboys is not something most people would brag about.
Re:Why? by torpor · 2004-03-08 06:08 · Score: 1

I do think you're overly optimistic about the availability of Gamecubes. Many years ago I was helping out with a development project to send solar cookers to places like rural Namibia.

Well, thats an interesting project. Solar cookers rock.

But the point is, wherever Nintendo is available, you've got yourself a linux box with Postgres capabilities in the works. Look at it that way. That's a nice thing. Happy, positive thing! In India, small villages -would- use this to make sure they're getting their water from the UN pump. It would be good to have saline meters hooked up to the gameports too, and well ... now that there's a working, open, for-the-people-by-the-people operating system that can run on it, wherever in the world, no matter how 'common' or weird it may be, you've got a machine you can write C code on.

C'mon, thats gotta be cool for something. No? Not even a teensy-weensy bit?

As for your travel history, filling four passports travelling to Thailand to visit ladyboys is not something most people would brag about.

Heh heh. Okay, you got me there. But it was nice to catch up with your Mom every now and then.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:Why? by rtaylor · 2004-03-08 08:30 · Score: 1

You're right. Gamecube isn't good for PostgreSQL (regression tests took 3 days to run). That said, the investment by the core developers was minimal, and someone had an enjoyable afternoon setting up the test rig.

Although I don't believe any new issues have been discovered as a result of this port, it is useful as a confirmation of database portability.

--
Rod Taylor

Windows port! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-06 23:41 · Score: 0

I'll ask anyway, when's the Windows port coming? I'm tired of Cygwin, IPC-Daemon2, and all that hassle. Plus to mention that Cygwin is GPL...

Re:Windows port! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:34 · Score: 0

It's coming along, really, really, RSN. Everything already compiles and links. And runs. The regression test only passes +- 70-80% though, and there are some quirks left. It's most probably arriving in 7.5, yeah baby!

don't it? by DrSkwid · 2004-03-06 23:47 · Score: 2, Funny

"it says something that the GameCube was easier to convert to than Windows, don't it?"

Yes, it says your command of English is poor.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Re:don't it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:02 · Score: 0

You forgot to check the "Post Anonymously" box. Now we all know that you're a grammar nazi, and your karma will be adjusted accordingly.
Re:don't it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:41 · Score: 0

So let me understand this....

I'm supposed to take something away from the fact that Postgres, which runs on linux, is easier to run on linux on a gamecube (which exists for some unfathomable reason) than it is to port it to a completely different OS?

Sure, there's the whole grammer thing, and even the (since I'm new here) "News for underachivers. Stuff that redefines trivial"-thing. But shouldn't at least an attempt at reason, however flailing, make an appearence? At some point it moves down the nerd-o-meter towards retarded, and idiot savants are great an all, but I know I wouldn't want to be mistaken for one.
Re:don't it? by DrSkwid · 2004-03-07 00:42 · Score: 1

If one hides for the negative posts how could it be considered karma?

Besides, you may have not noticed but it is the score of the post that moderation exists for, not the poster.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:don't it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 05:07 · Score: 0

Preach on Brother AC.
Re:don't it? by DrSkwid · 2004-03-07 08:26 · Score: 1

what on earth are you dribbling on about?

No-one would mistake *you* for an idiot, no mistake at all.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:don't it? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 08:51 · Score: 0

I hate both of you.

linux is unstoppable ... by torpor · 2004-03-06 23:54 · Score: 4, Funny

... i just spent my sunday morning putting it on my ipod, which now has a whole new lease on life.

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Re:linux is unstoppable ... by GoRK · 2004-03-07 08:37 · Score: 1

Score: 4, Funny only because it's true.
Re:linux is unstoppable ... by torpor · 2004-03-07 08:53 · Score: 1

see ... i was trying really hard not to do that ... but yeah. super-groovy fun.

spent the last few hours of my sunday reading up on apples tcp-over-firewire implementation and catching up on the uclinux kernel, firewire'ish stuff ... can't wait to telnet to ipod.home from sl5500.wlan, heh heh ... ;)

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:linux is unstoppable ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 14:33 · Score: 0

;-- The world has been overrun by robots.

Linux powered robots?

samba/nfs? by gl4ss · 2004-03-06 23:58 · Score: 1

wouldn't that make a good priority, given the limited amount of storage on the gc?

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

Re:samba/nfs? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:09 · Score: 0

hmm well.. NFS is part of the kernel isn't it? I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work already.. and Samba might compile.. or not... but who cares if the GC will be compatible with Windows machines when he's running linux already..

THIS SUCKS SERIOUSLY!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:07 · Score: 0, Flamebait

As a proud XBox and PS2 owner I *still* think that GC sucks.. And I'm outraged that someone takes the time to port Linux and a whole frickin' Database server to that machine.

I demand you port mySQL, PostgreSQL and everything else to my great american XBox console system.

Re:THIS SUCKS SERIOUSLY!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 01:27 · Score: 0

It doesn't need to be ported since it already runs natively.

Sorry, I guess either I or the moderators suck - just where is the parent funny?
Re:THIS SUCKS SERIOUSLY!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 01:59 · Score: 0

Because it doesn't give you a chance to justify you XBox or PS2 purchase.. that's why it is so fucking funny...

Now get over it and spend 99$ on something worth it..

Why isn't this on the frontpage? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 00:11 · Score: 0

I can remember reading every fart of the failed XBox on the frontpage when XBox was still cool... hmm.. this must be a biased american site... ooops..

Relevance? by JackBuckley · 2004-03-07 00:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

I suppose that this is interesting, in a geeky/hacker way, but I really don't think it belongs in the games section. Just because they used game console hardware for an OSS/Linux port story doesn't make it gaming news....

Re:Relevance? by torpor · 2004-03-07 09:13 · Score: 1

Amazing how narrow-minded and limp-dicked the world has become.

A Nintendo GameCube, being pretty much currency for children all over the world is a commodity computer. It is available in China, in Taiwan, in England, in Austria, in Pakistan, in Iraq, in New Zealand, on the common market, everywhere.

Also, peripherals for this device are cheap, and usually well designed. Intended to be sucked on, chewed on by dogs, had juice spilled on it, dropped from TV-set heights to the floor, etc. and still keep functioning.

Give a poor farming village one of these computers, set it up with some other cheap peripherals for water and filtration control, and you could change the lives of 100's of people.

That it has been done by people who have no understanding, really, of the potential consequences of their actions, is of no consequences whatsoever.

There are plenty of people around who do 'get it' occasionally ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Now Postgres will be known as a toy database by tigersha · 2004-03-07 01:01 · Score: 1

Just as it is beginning to shake its reputation!

--
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism

Re:Now Postgres will be known as a toy database by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 01:16 · Score: 0

It says "Gamecube"... NOT "XBox"...
Re:Now Postgres will be known as a toy database by InsaneCreator · 2004-03-07 02:45 · Score: 1

Nah, I'm pretty sure that title belongs to MySQL. ;)

full tcp/ip root-boot over nfs is done. by torpor · 2004-03-07 01:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

it works already. you boot gc-linux over nfs.

i just found a reason, finally, to by myself a gamecube. ;)

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

What? by Rhinobird · 2004-03-07 01:48 · Score: 3, Funny

What, you play GAMES on your Game Cube?
That is sooooo passe...

--
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla

Needs a Hard drive hack. by polyp2000 · 2004-03-07 01:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Naturally I think this is a cool project. I have the Linux kit from Sony for my PS2, its fun to tinker with, the 40gb hard drive is a nice addition. It would be nice if "somehow" , someone found a way of attaching a harddrive to a game cube. It would make such, a tiny and cute little box, but free it from the reigns of having to use the network to boot and load applications from a remote machine! GC's are soo cheap these day's id be tempted to get one just for some G3-Linux goodness!

--
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp

Re:Needs a Hard drive hack. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 01:56 · Score: 1, Informative

It would be nice if "somehow" , someone found a way of attaching a harddrive to a game cube.

That's most unlikey... NFS works though...

Reminds me of Oracle. by torpor · 2004-03-07 01:53 · Score: 5, Informative

I once visited a friend on the Oracle campus in the 90's, and noticed that in a whole slew of cubicles, programmers had Nintendo 64 setups. It seems they were porting Netscape to N64 back then, and I always wondered how weird it was for Oracle to be involved in that at first.

I wonder whatever happened to that project. Clearly it never saw the light of day, but they did have Netscape up and running on those boxes.

Now it seems things have come full circle, in a sort of twisty klein bottle kind of way ...

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Re:Reminds me of Oracle. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 06:01 · Score: 0

It could explain the browser Nintendo used on RANDNet way back when.

Re:Why? PVR frontend for MythTV by EarwigTC · 2004-03-07 05:12 · Score: 1

I would love to be able to boot my cubes into MythTV frontends. While I'm sure the standard frontend wouldn't fly, someone could work on a cube-specific one, as the hardware is a known quantity.

--
Promote civility: mod down any post starting with 'ummm'.

Easier? by jonadab · 2004-03-07 08:00 · Score: 1

> it says something that the GameCube was easier to convert to than Windows

Was it really easier, or did it get done first for some other reason, such as
because it was more compelling? I mean, we're accustomed to the idea of using
Linux on low-end hardware as a server platform, so porting an RDBMS to it makes
a sort of (weird) sense, but Windows is inherently a desktop platform; the only
people who use Windows on servers are people who are so MS-only that they'll
also use MS SQL Server. There's very little niche there for an OSS RDBMS.
Okay, sure, there are people who use a desktop system to test and develop stuff
that will end up on a server, but they can usually get by with MySQL. I'm not
sure I really see the need to port PostgreSQL to Windows; they're pretty much
used in completely different scenerios.

--
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.

Re:Easier? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-07 09:22 · Score: 0

sorry mr. g, your whiny demeanour just gives you away every time ... postgres is coming to your 'platform', whether you like it or not ... ;)
Re:Easier? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-08 00:45 · Score: 0

Add to that the fact that this argument is bogus. The GameCube is a hardware platform, Windows is an OS. The only comparison that could have been made is between the GameCube and the x86.
Re:Easier? by jonadab · 2004-03-08 02:25 · Score: 1

> The only comparison that could have been made is between the GameCube
> and the x86.

Right, and of course it's already running on x86 just fine.

--
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Re:Easier? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-08 09:08 · Score: 0

I believe you're missing the point of Win software entirely. Win servers are enormously popular, and are used in almost all large shops with Unixen.

The MS software advantage is interface focus and ubiquity. Most large shops currently own SQL Server licenses, so the effort of getting it in is nil. MySQL successfully competes with SS because of the free download/free use method of getting around corporate roadblocks. Pg has big potential in the Win space, if the release is a good one. It also will solve some MS oriented DB course needs for an RDBMS.

I don't understand... by GaimeGuy · 2004-03-07 11:14 · Score: 1

Why is it that these people always feel inclined to port OS software to game consoles? I mean, sure, it's an interesting challenge, and it has some uses, but really, the hassle of the project usually outweighs the results. You have to wonder what kinds of great things these people could do if they put their skills elsewhere, rather than simply making Linux and windows available on every video game console. I'm not saying that they're wasting their talent, but why not do something new, rather than the same "Port Linux to your video game console!" project that we tend to see? These people obviously have the skills to make great things out of the consoles: Why not put them to use, and find new and innovative ways to use the consoles?
But, whatever floats your boat....

How about by 77Punker · 2004-03-07 11:22 · Score: 1

it gets the chicks? I've been trying different things, maybe this one will be it!

Reminds me of a quote... by WWWWolf · 2004-03-07 11:54 · Score: 1

PostgreSQL on a game console: "My pistol will perform a SELECT query on a bullet and then use it to perform an INSERT INTO query on your head and truncate your life, you denormalized villain!"
(from a SA game review)

Why this is useful by highwindarea · 2004-03-07 15:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

There's a lot of comments about whther or not his is useful or just stupid. While you probably wouldn't be running a database on your gamecube (unless they port apache and python as well, for a very cheap web server), this ensures postgresql is platform independent which makes it easier to port to other more useful systems.

--
I think this internet thing sounds like a good idea

An explication of weirdness by fm6 · 2004-03-07 17:29 · Score: 1

I always wondered how weird it was for Oracle to be involved in that at first.

Actually, it was a sort of logical progression of something they did earlier. That's when Larry was pushing the "Network Computer", that diskless workstation that was supposed to replace the PC. They created a new subsidiary for this business, called NC. Meanwhile Netscape started a company called Navio, in partnership with (among others) Nintendo, which was supposed to sell web browsing using consumer devices. Navio and NC then merged, and voila, game consoles in Emerald City.

Damn by GeneralCern · 2004-03-07 18:27 · Score: 1

And here I had trouble getting it to work on my Sun Blade. Damn missing libraries.

PostgreSQL and windows by ls+-lR · 2004-03-08 13:45 · Score: 1

And before anyone asks... the Windows port is coming real soon now, so be patient

You can run PostgreSQL under Windows using Cygwin. This has been available for quite some time.

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PostgreSQL Ported to GameCube, Linux Progressing

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