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Andreesssen: Why Open Source Will Boom - in 103 Words
An anonymous reader writes "You gotta love Marc Andreessen's 12 reasons why Open Source is set to boom: can anyone use fewer than 103 words and still adduce as many reasons as he does?"
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Only 12 reasons? There must be more :)
You're old school? I beta tested the motherf***ing abacus!
inertia
And the year before, and the year before that, and so on? Or are these all new ones that we're going to start posting every year even though they never come true?
*yawn*
Customization. Not so important for joe public, but a great boon to the office side of the market, which is what originally drove Windows into the home, and will drive Linux in the same direction.
An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of
There is only one thing holding linux back - an integrated API for desktops. If the developers for Linux could develop API for all the applications that they write and the Desktop then becomes integrated with each application at the API layer, you will have what M$ has now. That is the only item the article missed. It went over embedded systems and how cheap Linux is (free).
Am I the only person who can't seem to understand what that is meant to mean?
I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
Everybody wants something for nothing...
Linux does that.
I'm guessing it's sort of along the lines of anti-capitalism.
Or perhaps MS is seen as a big bad bully, and so is the US?
I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the ones that popped into my head right away.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
I would change "The Internet is powered by open source" to "Open Source powers the Internet" and I would have fewer words!!
And the muscular cyborg German dudes dance with sexy French Canadians
Outlook viruses
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Translation: You don't get thrown in jail for pirating open source products.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Because it can be an enterprise level solution for free.
Online Starcraft RPG? At
Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
Get back to us when you succeed.
As much as I am glad to see positive news about Open Source, I have to wonder why this was worthy of news...
The article is talking about open source, not linux in particular (apart form the bits that are ;)
FREEdom
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
It didn't say "Linux", it said "Open Source" which does NOT always equate with Linux.
Or am I reading the wrong article?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Basically, foreign governments don't want to spend money on Software when that money goes outside their own country - governments don't like upsetting their balance of payments themselves.
Using Open Source means that the money stays in the Local economy, not going to Redmond.
A lot of countries, particually in asia and the third world, don't like the economic dominance the US has and any chance to keep money in their own economy instead of owing it to the US is a good deal for them.
That is probably another reason for the increasing use of Linux in China, Israel, and even the EU.
An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of
I think the sentiments from which Open Source benefits are directed against the dealings of a number of big software companies, not against the fact that most of these are American.
There are a lot of people, even whole countries, who do not like America, what nothing to do with America and feel more than a little annoyed that the "standard" operating system is written, designed and funds and american company.
Guess what using OSS alternatives allows them to do?
Right, so he's such a big believer in this open source stuff that he runs a proprietary software company, Opsware. I mean what has this guy actually done that deserves a front page story connecting him with open source. He wasn't the one who decided (or even proposed) to open source Netscape Navigator; he's just a guy that got rich off of someone else's idea.
...) and you'll find software developers developing stuff for internal use. In fact I'll wager that more LOC are written outside the "software business" than in it.
1. "The Internet is powered by open source."
Hello? Yes, Apache, Sendmail, BIND etc. are used extensively, but how about those Sun boxes and Cisco devices doing all the routing?
2. "The Internet is the carrier for open source."
I don't see how this means that OSS is going to succeed, it just seems like a fact. Anyhow RMS was doing Free Software using tapes and the USPS long before the Internet came along.
3. "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed."
True, but proprietary companies also use the Internet for development, so how is this important?
4. "It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
Maybe.
5. "Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
Great. Thanks, so you manage to put Open Source and anti-American in a sentence. That's the last thing that OSS needs: "OSS developed by terrorists". Stop splitting the world into American and anti-American; it's not that simple, and surely the number of people who sit that and go "I'm going to develop this cool software because I hate America" must be tiny. Most of them are doing it for the glory.
6. "Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers."
Yes, true.
7. "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants."
I don't even understand this.
8. "Servers have always been expensive and proprietary, but Linux runs on Intel."
Hmm. Ever talk to IBM about running Linux on Big Iron? Not everything is Intel and if it were wouldn't that mean that Intel could charge whatever they like for a processor and make servers expensive again?
9. "Embedded devices are making greater use of open source."
Yes, they are.
10. "There are an increasing number of companies developing software that aren't software companies."
Oh man, this guy is out of touch. Go to any large organization (Shell Oil, JP Morgan, HBO,
11. "Companies are increasingly supporting Linux."
Wow, the insights never stop.
12. "It's free."
Very unimportant. A far more important issue is TCO; if you can make a good TCO argument then a CIO is going to buy into it.
John.
(this is an explanation, not necessarily my opinion)
the world view's America as the land of the selfish, run by corporations, headed by a falsely-elected retard, and not bothered about persecuting people, being hypocritical, or just plain murder if it's beneficial to profits.
MS is associated with similar "American" traits - bullying, being crap, holding the world back.
so being for open source and linux is like being against capitalism and MS.
Am I the only person who can't seem to understand what that is meant to mean?
Basically.. a more widespread distrust of America will be reflected on american products.
Do foreign governments want to put their strategical infrastructure software in the hands of a nation which they do not trust?
Let's not turn this into a flamewar on how or if these sentiments are valid and just agree on that they exist, like it or not.
Probably you have to be Non-American (if not Anti-American) to understand this one ;-)
I like my spaghetti with source.
You must all be reading a different article to me.
I'm reading how OPEN SOURCE will boom in 5-10 years, not linux.
Do story submitters not read the articles either ?!
"Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
Actually almost the whole World is anti-Bush, not anti-American.
Iraq: war to save the U
"He tried these 12 steps With Netscape. Then this guy went and founded LoudCloud.
.02,
I'm not sure that we even want this guy giving us his support or opinon."
I agree,
in that the average reader of slashdot may take Andreesen's thoughts and opinions with a grain of salt. With that said:
(1) the guy did have a vision many moons ago, that while others may have had, he somehow figured out a way to parlay it into millions of dollars. So he's got something that the rest of us don't have.
-and more importantly-
(2) financial and industry wonks do give the guy some credibility and are interested in his opinion for reason "1" above. So when you get someone with his cache talking about Linux, it's gonna get more airplay than 99.9999% of the slashdot readership.
just my
jeff
Is not, and never was. Unless all three of the unrelated ISPs I have access to have super-ultra-anti-slashdotting powers.
Does no one check if someone's just karma whoring anymore?
When I was walking into NEC a couple months ago with my ggod friend at Red Hat, I asked him why he worked at a Linux company. He told me, "Because it will be the last OS". It took me a while for that to really sink in-- but I think it has a stong chance at becoming true. Any major advances in security, compartmentability, portability, etc. will wind up in Linux. Even if they are developed in some subbranch or separate OS (QNX, Embedded, BSD), the features and code concepts could (and most likely will) find their way into Linux.
The only thing that would prevent such "Borgification" would be a superior kernel structure with a fundamentally different architecture. Sure, there will be one eventually, but the temptation to graft that into Linux will be too great, and "Linux" will most likely adapt, rather than get killed.
davejenkins.com |
Where is the anti-American sentiment in that?
the world view's America as the land of the selfish, run by corporations, headed by a falsely-elected retard, and not bothered about persecuting people, being hypocritical, or just plain murder if it's beneficial to profits.
Minor correction, the "falsely-elected" thing is an American obsession. Few people outside your borders are particularly interested in your electoral process let alone worked up about it.
It's examined closely for open backdoors. Because it is fully checked for big brother backdoors that could permit spies, it's not likely to have big brother holes in it. This is real security. If you don't want to share your private business with the world, who's software would you use. MS with the hole that gave away SCO's Haloween X secrets, or something that will keep your edits private. I know which editor I don't use for e-mail.
The truth shall set you free!
Corporate Gadfly
Jonathan Archer: the most beaten up Enterprise captain in Star Trek history
Way to play right into Darl "Linux is for terrorists" McBride's hand. With boosters like this guy Linux certainly doesn't need enemies.
0 1 - just my two bits
I really take exception to this, although it may be true. ... I for one don't wish to be associated with this and I raise an eyebrow at Andreesen for thinking this. If Kerry thought looking anti-American is going to help him, or you think it will help Linux, you are wrong. It is not going to resonate with people who aren't already on your side.
This may be true, but I don't like it, so it is wrong. Yeah, that's a convincing way of putting it. The thing is, on an international level the US is going to have to face some hard truths about where the rest of the world stands regarding them, and this includes products of our economy, like software. We are reaching a point where people boycott certain american products due to politics or ideological differences. Most powerful country or not, we have to keep in mind that it is still possible for us to be tried in the court of public opinion worldwide.
That's the real title from the article.
The missing word is adoption (as in 12 Reasons for Growth of Open Source Adoption).
That's because he states mostly reasons for doing open source, not using it (unless you think users really believe that "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants" or find it a compelling argument ofr open source that "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed").
Now, imagine that a company you distrust that much is in bed with a government that cannot be trusted. A government that feels free to impose its will on anyone anywhere, and had no respect for anyones privacy. That requires little or no imagination these days. Now, imagine that it isn't even your own government. How would you feel?
Even true US patriots can see why any sane government would want to ensure that they rely only on OPEN computing systems instead of coverting their governments and populations into MicroSerfs.
That's not true. The complaints about America are largely the result of American culture and history. It's not like suddenly in 2001 Bush took office and people just started having problems with America... do you really think it only took El-Qaida a few months to whip up their plans for 9/11?
Let's just be clear with this particular point that Mark is making that this isn't about Bush or that "open source" software itself is anti-American. The point is: people remember the Cold War and worry that American business works hand-in-hand with the CIA and other agencies (which is not to say that their own governments are any better in many cases-- but look at which foreign groups are most receptive to "open source": governments).
I do not have a signature
Despite the fact that the whole open/free source movement is arguably an American invention?
There are too many wasted words. He's concentrating on one per sentence, since he's delivering it as twelve points.... try this.
;)
1) The Internet is powered by,
2) is the carrier for,
3) and is the development platform for open source.
4) Open source is more secure than proprietary software,
5) yet benefits from anti-American sentiments.
6) Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers.
7) Open source stands on the shoulders of giants.
8) Linux runs on any type of server,
9) or any embedded device.
10)Software isn't always made by software companies anymore.
11)Support is improving.
12)It's free.
Now, this takes it down to 72 words mostly through paraphrasing into compound sentences. I'll bet it could go down to 51 (half of the original) but I don't have time...
Now, anonymous reader, I've fulfilled your challenge. Where is my prize?
In all truthfulness, we need articles like this. Marc Andressen was once a name that some non-Techs even recognized. Quotes like these make conversion/assimilation easier.
Let us not forget the recent example of China: why should any government implement critical installations of software that may have been compromised by the NSA and its affiliates? If you can't see the source, you have no assurance of code integrity. What good is strong crypto if your info is intercepted before it's encoded?
Go with an entirely open-source solution, and you can make sure there are no built-in trojans, watchers-at-the-gate, or other boojums lurking behind the desktop.
Damn those pesky terrorists
I believe this is referring to the fact that China, Japan, and other nations have announced government initiatives to develop and promote Linux.
One of the reasons for such efforts is to provide a measure of independence from U.S. control of the OS (and whatever rules it may impose on security, DRM, etc). But "anti-American" may be a harsh term to express this concept.
an important reason why open source isn't easily co-opted or why it won't fizzle out easily.
The GPL.
Share and share alike. There's nothing like an idea whose time has come (although many of the principles were utilized in the scientific community for centuries).
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Mark Andreesen is the biggest example of "right place at the right time" fame/fortune ever.
The guy was lucky to have stumbled onto the Mosaic project in college and has been coasting on that dumb luck ever since.
He accomplished nothing while at Netscape, he wasn't a core developer, he wasn't given any real position of responsibility or authority, he was merely a handsomely paid poster boy. He has accomplished nothing since the demise of Netscape. Loudcloud was a complete and utter failure. His latest venture will likely sputter and die as well.
Why he continues to get publicity as an "Internet Whiz Kid" boggles my tiny mind.
His "top 12" list shows no signs of creative thought or keen insight, its just a regurgitation of the same Slashdot karma-whoring BS seen here every day.
1. "The Internet is powered by open source."
Really? Cisco routers are open source? What about the switches and core hardware/software that makes things work? Open source? I don't think so.
2. "The Internet is the carrier for open source."
Uh, yeah... The "Internet" doesn't give a shit what it "carries". Open or closed, it is an
agnostic transport.
3. "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed."
"The Internet" is merely the means of transferring data. Linux is a platform, but so is Windows, Solaris, and other folks that have made significant contributions to the growth of the internet.
4. "It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
Really? Just saying it is so does not make it so.
Open source code can be just as buggy and full of security holes as proprietary code.
5. "Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
Huh? So its good that the rest of the world hates the US? Hmmmm, right, so lets foster even more ill-will around the world so the mighty Linux can RULE! How does one make such an idiotic statement?
6. "Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers."
Yeah, thats SOOOOO Much better than cold hard cash. I'd really rather my friends think I'm cool than make a decent living.
Statements like #6 are easy to make for a guy who stumbled into his fortune by sheer luck.
7. "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants."
Maybe, but Mark Andreesen is not one of them.
8. "Servers have always been expensive and proprietary, but Linux runs on Intel."
9. "Embedded devices are making greater use of open source."
10. "There are an increasing number of companies developing software that aren't software companies."
Yes, and this "software" is not necessarily any good. The barriers to entry in the open source world are very low, but that doesn't mean that everyone is produciing quality code. Volume != quality.
11. "Companies are increasingly supporting Linux."
Geez, how long did it take him to come up with #11? Really keen insight, Mark. Keep up the good work.
12. "It's free."
Wow, brilliant, thanks for the insight, captain obvious.
I would like to see an unbiased TCO comparison between an 'easy-to-use' Linux (Suse perhaps - as opposed to Gentoo) versus Windows Server 2003 in a company. I don't think an exact comparison is possible, but one that's not sponsored by either 'team' would be worth a read...
To stay on-topic - most of the other points are valid, but they are valid for both open source and closed source code.
Standing on the shoulders of Giants? Don't get any bigger than MS. Go develop something in VS.NET. Enjoy the enormous framework that they have created for your use as a developer.
Hell, there are no rules here. We're trying to accomplish something. - Thomas Edison
Would have been even better if the web page containing those 102 words wasnt 108KB. Do web developers test a pages on a T1 connection?
/rant off
Sorry if this sounds like a rant - but my Broadbands been a little iffy this morning so I switched to a 56K modem, the page "only" takes 26 seconds to load at 4KB/Second! Arnt modems (33.6 - 56K) still the most popular connection method to the Internet?
Insightfull article though!
No, i'm EUian :)
I do think that outsourcing government fuctions is the epitomy of stupidity however. It weakens your economy threefold:
1) By removing money from the US economy.
2) By reducing the US tax base, because less internal jobs = less taxation
3)By reducing the skills base of your country in the long term.
The US economy seems to be surviving more or less on arms sales, advertising, and illegal tarriffs as far as its economy goes.
An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of
13. Open source development is based on the same system as the peer review system that has given us such wonderful things such as medicine, electricity, computers and a better understanding of our place in the universe. If that doesn't tell you - go get a lobotomy and your MCSE :) ....if you uhhh haven't already done so....
It's not like suddenly in 2001 Bush took office and people just started having problems with America... do you really think it only took El-Qaida a few months to whip up their plans for 9/11?
This neatly illustrates the difference. Al-Quaida are anti-America. The dislike America and want to destroy it.
At the same time there are millions of people around the world who are anti-Bush. They dislike Bush and think his politics, especially international politicies, suck. These people are not anti-American and certainly do not sympathise or support Al-Quaida.
There are certain people in the US for whom it is beneficial to lump those of us who are anti-Bush alongside the anti-Americans. You don't need to help them by doing it yourself, though.
disclaimer: i run both windows and freebsd + linux and have done for years. as much as i support the open source community and dislike MS's strong-arm anti-competitive strategies, i do feel sometimes one gets carried away with very a very isolated view on certain real-world scenarios.
so here goes:
1. "The Internet is powered by open source."
Sorry, but this statement is a little too broad. As far as I am aware (and I'm open to being proven wrong - bait!) a large amount of "The Internet" is powered by Cisco routers which run the proprietary operating system IOS. I accept that there are a large amount of Sendmail/Postfix/Exim/Qmail boxes around pushing email, but there are also a hell of a lot of MS Exchange Servers and IBM Lotus servers pushing email as well powering corporate email. Also MS represents around 1/4 of web servers on the Net. So, like I said, a very bold generalisation.
2. "The Internet is the carrier for open source."
As it is for proprietary systems.
3. "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed."
That is because open source is largely decentralised. Business itself is decentralising to some degree (although not to the same level as Open Source - but this can be as much a strength as a presumed weakness).
4. "It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
This is the one that erks me the most. Lets take a look at the nuts and bolts of the O/S rather than the user interaction. There have been probably (if someone has stats, I would love to see them) as many Linux (think SSH + FTP + Telnet etc...) exploits out there as there have been on Windows (think IIS). The more the Linux front-end bloats like Windows has over the years and the more "features" that get added to various products introduce security risks.
The fact that the source is open means that people can exploit it rather than by trial and error or just hacking around than by actually analysing the source and finding weaknesses in it like people did with the Windows leaked source code.
Most of the bad security press (especially recently) has been Outlook (Express) based Worms and this was do to introducing a good idea (feature) that turned sour. Could just as easily happen in the Open Source community, but due to lack of penetration (he said penetration) it has never cascaded into something as far-reaching as MS's security woes have in this regards.
5. "Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
Personally I'm big into this! I feel that the potential for Europe to regain power and all of that is pretty massive. However, outside of the USA there is one big problem - language. You may think that this is getting better - go to Brussels, goto Barcelona and see how many 20-30 year olds speak English; not many.
6. "Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers."
At our (proprietary) office peer respect amongst coders is pretty high too. Are we an exception?
7. "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants."
"He doth stride the world like a colossus...". What if the giants jump up and down and shake you off? Sorry I just don't get this - anyone care to explain?
8. "Servers have always been expensive and proprietary, but Linux runs on Intel."
As does Windows. And don't say the free thing because RedHat Advanced Server and all of the other commercial guys also charge for their server distros. And then you want support, and then you have to have certified engineers. I've seen too many contrary ROI models to not prove anything here.
9. "Embedded devices are making greater use of open source."
Fair enough. Although consider Symbian. Also consider that MS have not been big on an embedded device strategy until recently. We all know what happens when MS starts taken an interest in something - and of all people M
1) From the TCP/IP stack onwards and upwards to the really critical applications (web, mail, DNS), GPL and BSD software dominate the Net. The only real counterexample I can think of is the software on the big Cisco routers. I think the first statement is a sound one.
2) It's not meaningless. I don't personally remember the bad old days when Linux distros were mailed between developers on stacks of fifty or sixty floppy disks. But those dark times did exist.
The Internet allowed for collaboration on an unprecedented, massively multiplayer level. This is something that proprietary developers haven't been able to take full advantage of, because their model requires a certain level of secrecy. They can release beta software and ask for feedback, but they can't say, "Here's the code. Tell me if you see anything wrong with it."
I don't believe #2 and #3 are saying anything different. #4 may be true, but it's difficult to make a convincing case either way.
5) It's not just about the developers. It's about the acceptance of Linux by users. The fact is, only about 5% of potential computer users live inside the U.S. Therefore, for 95% of people, any money paid for Microsoft products is money leaving the country. The higher the level of anti-American sentiment, the more people will clamor for an alternative. There's also the fact that a foreign government cannot check the Windows disks they receive for backdoors.
In America, no it won't resonate. But we're not the center of the world, and those who be against us dwarf the number that be for us. So I think Bush should be playing nicer, but that's a flame for another time.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Another reason is because the mega-corporations (IBM, SUN, etc) have decided that offshoring proprietary work to third world countries doesn't produce enough pure profit. Luckily they have figured out a way to get programmers to work for them for free! The executives can't believe their luck, its a dream come true!
"I think it's true that many open-source devs are europeans who have green-ish attitudes, it's immaterial, unhelpful, and boring"
I ALSO really take exception to THIS, although it may be true. I AM an european with a green-ish attitude (I got several more, amongst them liberalism), and I am NOT immaterial nor unhelpful, and given some drugs I can be quite entertaining.
I would have phrased 5. "anti-American blabla" as 5. Open Source benefits from anti-global-coorperation sentiments.
That would include greenish Americans... (I still fail to see what greenish has to do with Open Source, but he)
"/Dread"
Funny you mention this...
Because I would think this is the number one reason that open source and linux WILL NOT boom.
Think, if Microsoft didn't exist, what would be holding Open Source back?
That's not quite what the report say. The question is about suicide bombings against US troops and other westeners in Iraq. The way you formulated it made it sound like attacks on US soil.
From what I've heard from reports a lot of that goes back to the typical problem with US troops. They are just not good at making friends with the local population (among other things).
The point is that if it isn't true, they're not necessarily reasons for Linux to be set to boom. Instead, they're reasons that will help an eventual boom if other things fall into place (and they are at the moment, but he didn't mention them). For instance:
1. Growing cost of software in relation to hardware (related to "it's free"
2. Growing anti-Microsoft-sentiment (in part related to his mention of anti-American sentiment)
3. Growing Internet use (related to his first 3 points)
4. Growing interest in security/coverage of Microsoft security problems (related to #4)
5. Growing interest in replacing expensive hardware and associated software and support contracts with inexpensive hardware that can easily be supported by any number of local individuals (related to #8, and makes the cheaper cost of software even more important in relation to my own #1)
6. The inherent flexibility and portability of open source (leading to #9, embedded (and other) devices making use of open source software)
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Errr, how are western Europeans any worse off than Americans?
Seriously, don't you think the childish "you're just jealous" defense has something to do with it as well?
- Chris
The whole point is that Linux is not limited to one or two platforms! If Linux only ran on *Intel Brand* hardware, then Intel would squeeze the market, and people would go elsewhere. However, you aren't limited to Intel or AMD or Sun or PowerPC. You aren't limited by either 32 or 64bit. Vendors compete on the basis of their features and price. If one vendor tries to put the squeeze on you, migrating to another platform is relatively painless. Makes it harder for the vendors, since they can't lock you in, but it sure frees the end user!
Your Servant, B. Baggins
"There are an increasing number of companies developing software that aren't software companies."
Most software is developed by companies that drill oil, build widgets, sell things or move money around. Companies that actually _specialize_ in software, like Adobe, are a rarity (but getting more common).
Once, recently enough that I can just barely remember it, there were no software companies -- most software was developed by the organization that used it, and some was developed by hardware vendors like IBM. Then, in the 70's, companies that just made software began to emerge. But it's still the case that most software development is done outside of 'the software industry'.
(dozes off in armchair by the fire, mumbling about young people these days)
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Disclaimer I am a linux loving desktop hippy who plays games ONLY on windows 2003.
True enough except not really certain parts of it certainly are. TCP/IP bind apache etc are all opensource. Telecom infrastructure sure as hell isn't. Neither is the hardware that powers all the opensource. At best it is 50/50.
True enough. Opensource can usually be downloaded legally wich is a bit less usual for propietary code.
And how do all those outsourcing project work? Over the internet. It is more like opensource is possible because of the internet. Opensource is big because of the internet not the other way around.
Well sure. As soon as someone gets all the bugs out of openssl. It is not the biggest piece of software in the world and still holes are found. Sure they are plugged as soon as possible but they are still there. Opensource is only secure at the moment because nobody has found a gigantic hole yet. We may not be so lucky in the future.
Oh boy. What a nice way to ruin an article. Exactly what is meant by it anyway? I know plenty of "anti-american" kiddies. They just go with the flow but I don't see them using linux. They spout of against america because it is cool but it is just words. None of them practice it. Would be hard to do as none of them got a clue.
There is a far more real anti-"what america has become" feeling. How exactly this applies to the choice of software would be hard to say. I think at best you can say it is powered by an anti-coorperation feeling but this would not exactly explain why big business is adopting linux.
This argument is too big to be included in a short list.
Incentives around closed source include million dollar salaries. I think this is a tie.
Linux stands on the shoulders of unix. Since when has unix been opensource? Sentence is incomplete. Opensource stands on the shoulders of giants who may have nothing to do with source at all or who developed some closed source but allowed others to use it and work with it and it is sharing a place on those shoulders with closed source.
Nice speech but meaningless.
So does windows. In fact it runs only on Intel and AMD but linux runs on the most expensive hardware out there. Intel isn't proprietary? WAHAAA. Intel isn't expensive? Depends, get some real hardware from intel and you will be paying big money. Not as big as "real" servers but you get what you pay for. Itanium? Better have a 19inch fridge ready to cool it.
True. Same as tron. Tron is also capable of running on the desktop. Have you even seen it live? So my washing machine etc will run on linux but I control it via windows? Nice win, not. Only if all linux powered embedded devices are also compatible with linux on the outside it will mean very little.
Ehm, right. What was AT&T again? Or Xerox? Software companies? Don't think so. Hell software being developed by software companies is a relativly new idea.
Yup but that is not a reasing why it will win. It is a symptom of the fact that it is winning. Cause and effect I am afraid.
Yes nice. Free as in money or free as in freedom. People care about money. Far less about freedom. Opensource costs money. Same as closed source. You need to pay someone to maintain your setup. To install and modify.
I know he was trying to limit words but this sentence should be more specific.
"Opensource allows freedom."
CONCLUSION:
Meaningless.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Eh? You really mean to say you think that, before one year ago, everyone in the world LOVED the US?
Look, I'm not happy with the situation in Iraq, but to blame all anti-American sentiment on the War is just plain dumb-ass. To blame all anti-American sentiment on any one thing is just as stupid. There are lots of reasons why people dislike the US. Some of those reasons are good, and some aren't, but most go back to policies that have been in place since at least WWII.
The point is that Open Source will boom because people, and even more so governments don't trust an American Monopoly, especially one which has been repeatedly convicted of abusing its monopoly position to extend its power and control.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Yes, the Linux kernel and associated parts of the system are open source. That's not what I mean. I mean the persistant equating of "open source" and "Linux," especially on Slashdot. That is, "open source success" is immediately assumed to mean "Linux success." This is the root of the problem, I think.
Open source is good. Linux is...well, it's good but it's not really what's needed for desktops. It's a modern incarnation of old thinking, something one notch below an OS for heavy iron mainframes, much too complex and awkward to really want on my desk. I live with it because it's better than Windows in some ways, but I've used UNIX professionally, and UNIX on my desktop and notebook is categorically what I don't want. And if I don't want it, just think about people who don't know much at all about computers.
Now if Linux were drastically simpler to understand and configure than Windows, then we'd have something here.
It's all come to the point where you get Americans seemingly under the impression America is "better" than other countries, and that everything America does is, by very definition, "good". The only thing America is better at than the rest of the world is impregnating incredibly baseless patriotism into its citizens, and gun crime. America isn't about freedom, liberty or justice - it's about stock, shareholders and dividends. I think that's what pisses most people off. It would be like if Jesus came back and decided to be a slave trader. Lots of promise, but no balls to carry it out.
And so on.
Linux is old in the hobbyist market. Linux is the player to beat in the server market. And in the scientific computing market. It is now well-established in the embedded field. It is getting a foothold in the corporate desktop market.
The home desktop market is still missing.
It runs on lots of platforms. Intel != x86. x86 != intel. He also forgot to mention PowerPC etc as an alternative and forcing it into a lower price point because of this.
Many of the arguments Bush made to go into Afghanistan and Iraq were made before him by Clinton to justify bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. All of the same justifications, all of the same outrage from foreign governments, but very different results because of the effectiveness of the very different approaches.
Right, but Clinton was also wrong. However he wasn't as consistently wrong and bone headed about it as Bush as proven himself to be, hence any "anti-Clinton" feeling was minimal compared to the current anti-Bush sentiment around the globe. It is this rise in ill-feeling towards the U.S leader which has been interpreted as anti-Americansim by U.S Conservatives in an effort to discredit what are largely valid complaints. Labelling someone who is complaing about your foriegn policy "anti-American" and placing them right next to Bin Laden himself is a great way to make your critics look bad.
"It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
Saying "simply" is a bad idea. It makes it sound like open source code is inherantly more secure... written, released, secure all in one fell swoop. Succesfull open source code might be more secure but it was work to make is so. It didn't just happen. People had to look at it, analyze it, use it, push it and do things to it that weren't meant to be done. That can happen with closed source exactly the same way. However, open source seems more accountable and verifiable to the outside world (in my opinion). Accountable in that they don't put 4 pages of EULA that must be agreed to before ever running the program(1), and that you can usually access the developers of the software if something is really fscked. Try getting through to a software engineer at microsoft if your machine keeps booting up into an unstable state and explore.exe or whatever it is keeps crashing on load. Verifiable in that you can view the source code, or hire someone to do so without NDA's or other contractual obligations to the owners of the source code.
I would have prefered, "Open source can be verified as secure, where closed source can not." But that isn't even perfect.
(1) question: does the GPL or BSD license have to be agreed to for simply executing a binary created by source code released under the GPL or BSD license? naively I assume it does not need to be agreed to, only if you redistribute.
I dont like the US for just that attitude youre showing. "We are on top of the world".
I mean, the europeans occupied a continent and nearly whiped out the natives and called it America, had slavery when most other countries had abbandoned it centuries ago.
"If youre not with us, you are against us" must be the most stupid thing any president has ever said.
And there are many countries more "free" than the US.
newsflash - the web isn't a programming platform
have you tried this mythical program in bochs / vmware / other virtualizer ?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I can do it in 3 words:
It is free.
"Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
WTF does this have to do with it? Open source software isn't/shouldn't be political.
What now? Are developers supposed to design for this? Market their software this way? What the hell is this world coming to?
"Never tell me the odds"
Just after Sept 11, 2001 - most of the world (save a few corners of hatred) loved the US. Most across the globe was a New Yorker for a short period.
The Bush politics, and pushy-war-mongering, squandered the good will of the world in record time.
Now, after a few years, most of the world is indiffernt to the US, a bit more of the world hates us, and Great Britain is on our side.
You're both right. Where's the agrument there?
It's unfortunate yet brutally honest that 'anti-American sentiment' and 'outsourcing' are both on the list.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
All of his reasons are trivial. They do not prove or even attempt to support a position. 103 words simply isn't enough. The devil is always in the details.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Open-source is not anti-American. It is anti-authority, anti-power, anti-monopoly. It's for the people, by the people. It's about freedom and democracy.
Here is an interesting excercise for you.
1) Study up on just where american troops have been stationed outside the US, how long they have been there, and in what numbers.
2) Study up on why they went there in the first place. Then check out why they have stayed.
3) Imagine the USA withdrawing all their troops and support from those areas now.
4) Imagine what would have happened had we not stationed them there in the first place and maintained a presence there.
It is more than just "involvement" in the second world war, as you put it. It is a continuing effort to sustain countries that are notoriously unstable and susceptible to outiside attacks.
As for our current actions, I am of the feeling that the governemnt has not been completely honest with the American public, however it is not just this administration that has done it, and I don't think it has been dishonest in the same way that everyone else thinks they have been.
In addition, I feel that the political public (those that vote and those that participate in the media machine that tries to influence all the one who do not vote) is so overwhelmingly occupied with attaining special rights and considerations for themselves and their groups that they do not have the time or mental capacity to undrstand the real resons why the USA would want to have a strong military presence in the Middle East.
Even saying the words "Long Term Strategic Planning" would get most people's eyes to glaze over. Stating that the Soviet Union had achieved global dominance through strategic warfare would get you blank stares and you would have people ready to refute you who did not even understand strategic warfare. And if you said that the welfare of the USA depended on breaking the decades long pattern of ignoring strategic warfare, counter-insurgency, and "wet" intelligence work, you would have people lined up around the block to shout you down.
Fortunately, not everyone listens to these voices. Fortunately there are some people who have studied the history of the world through the eyes of the military, and with a view for keeping this country viable.
The most heinous tragedy is that the people who live here are more concerned with whether or not their network television show will be cancelled than whether or not their country will be around in the next 50 years. They revel in their ignorance and are more ready to listen to people from other countries than they are to their conscience.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
You can't pontificate the future of open source, you can simply dangle the carrot of success by figuring out ways to make it more appealing to the largest number of people.
NOT even "Anti-Microsoft".
What's really at play is that some economies may prefer to see their money on government systems spent on local companies.
What's better for your economy? Spending money on foreign jobs, or your own jobs? Even if it costs fractionally more, some of that fraction will be returned as taxation/local spending.
So by your definition, it seems completely pro American... At least the America of the dreams of the pioneers, not the current one.
... but let's see if I'm the only person that thinks that way.
Reasons why Open Source Will Boom:
[1] This allows a small company to use the same software that the "big boys" are using. This means a company can pick the support, training and developer options that suit their budget and needs without sacrificing themselves to inferior software, or locking themselves into proprietary crapware. Small companies will have improved options for support, reference material, third-party add-ons, etc. It's going to be great news for small companies. It also means that amateur developers can train themselves on the proper software. No more piracy to keep yourself abreast of the latest software. No more "Education" versions or crippleware. It's all the real deal, baby!
[2] If Australia buys 1,000,000 Windows desktops (Windows + Office) then that's half a BILLION dollars going overseas to the USA. Imagine how much money is flowing into the USA from the rest of the world, thanks to the USA led dominance of the software industry. This has a bigger effect on smaller and poorer countries. Countries who recognise this economic impact are naturally going to encourage local software development but what software can compete with Microsoft? OSS can! Better to pay a local to improve OSS than send the money overseas! We're already seeing this argument appearing in briefing papers from the New Zealand government, the German government, the Peru government, etc. Governments will be sneaky about this; they'll impose tariffs and legal obstacles to encourage OSS (and perhaps locally owned proprietary software as well).
[3] The gigantic developer base possible with OSS means it will grow faster than any other software. We're already seeing this happen. Linux was 1 developer in 1991. 100 developers in 1992. 1,000 developers in 1993. Current estimates (including userspace projects like GNOME and GNU) are upwards of 100,000 developers. Not all of those developers work fulltime but it doesn't matter because the growth is accelerating. GNU/Linux got to where it is today with far fewer developers. It's going to be a wild wide from now on in. In 5 years time I think it will be obviously ludicrous for a proprietary company to "compete" against popular OSS projects like Linux. The only way to recruit enough developers to be competitive will be for companies to cooperate via OSS licensing.
[4] Incredibly important. Software is getting harder to write. In the 70s a single talented guy could do it in a year. Woz built the Apple I by himself. In the 80s, you needed dozens of people to build something cool. The Macintosh had 80+ people in the team and it took 5 years, though admittedly Burrell and Raskin and Hertzfeld and Atkinson were key figures in its success. A modern OS like Longhorn has 1000s of developers and takes 6+ years even though they aren't starting from scratch. A small startup can't start from zero; they need to license software from Microsoft or WindRiver or they'll never complete in a reasonable time. This reinforces the dominance of Microsoft and WindRiver. Great for the companies in control. Terrible for the startup. Rather than spend money on new and exciting things, they're wasting money on licenses so Bill Gates can buy another extension to his $50 million mansion. OSS gives every startup the same headstart. Companies don't need to start from zero! They can start from a working FREE foundation. They can invest in exciting new technology. "If I have seen further, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants".
[5] Open Source allows the users to grow the software in unplanned directions. OSS will fill every software niche, even ones t
the way I see it:
the common property parts from socialist economics. the private property parts are from capitalist economics.
most economies are a mixture of socialism/capitalism. pure US capitalism died in 1929 and the US has been proped up by socialism ever since.
why it's seemingly "taking so long" to gain momentum: inertia, and it's harder to configure & use* (because there's no incentive to make it easy).
:)
why it'll ultimately prevail: it has no acquisition costs. In business it usually always comes down to money.
(* The majority of "enterprise-grade" open source software I've used lately *is* more difficult to configure, at least, than win32-based stuff that installs with "setup.exe" But the open source stuff is more secure & cross-platform & extremely modular.
What are the particular reasons Europeans hate Bush? Could anyone be fairly explicit and mature in their response?
1. "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."
2. The opinions of "old Europe" do not matter.
3. Freedom fries.
4. British and Spanish troops in Iraq, counter to public opinion.
Now, why do *I* (a Canadian) hate Bush? He wins an election by about 500 votes. He has the good fortune to be president on 9/11, which turns him into a pariah. Then he manipulates public sentiment about 9/11 to push forward the most extreme right-wing agenda in recent history.
-a
What I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here is the role of anti-corporate sentiment in promoting Open Source. Any company, big or small can support Open Source products. No company can really control the direction of Open Source development. According to the polls I've seen, 60-70% of Americans think larger corporations have too much power-Open Source has the potential to break some of the major strongholds of corporate influence in America and the world.
Whether you agree or disagree with anti-corporate sentiment, this may be a bigger issue than anti-American sentiment. I think Andreeson missed it because he's too close to the corporate world.
If you switched overnight, as you say, did you ever really like the US that much? I mean, if I go from being someone's friend one day to their "enemy" the next, were we ever really friends?
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
1. "The Internet is powered by open source."
;-)
But the internet does not stop at apache and sendmail. What most users see as "the internet" is a mail client and a web browser: Outlook and IE.
And even if all the web servers in the world would use Apache, that does not make a single user switch from IE to Mozilla.
2. "The Internet is the carrier for open source."
3. "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed."
I don't see why that should give open source a big break through. But I agree that only the internet makes open source really possible.
But in the same way it also helps closed source development.
4. "It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
Why?
I am sure that an unix based system is more secure than windows by design. But why does that prevent an open source email client from executing any worm/virus/...?
And even more: Who cares? For most users (including me) any worm that does not delete the hard disk is only a minor problem (like catching a cold - not very nice but also no big deal).
5. "Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
When first reading this statement I through: YES.
But when thinking about it for some time: No.
That would apply to all software - open source or not. Opera and The Bat! are not the standard browser and mail client.
6. "Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers."
So does working in any job - unless you want to be fired really soon (except if you are in a position to fire everyone else first).
7. "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants."
So closed source means standing on the shoulders of open source standing on the sholders of giants?!?
Or does closed source and open source each stand on one sholder?
8. "Servers have always been expensive and proprietary, but Linux runs on Intel."
Servers are still expensive and Windows also runs on AMD
9. "Embedded devices are making greater use of open source."
Really?
I would guess the are using linux as operating system - but the actual "application" is very closed source, and without the right hardware quite useless.
Or does anyone think there will be a community about the latest updates for the software in your waching machines.
10. "There are an increasing number of companies developing software that aren't software companies."
I would say that most companies developing software are not software companies. And especially those companies don't want to give their competitors any more information than absolutely necessary.
11. "Companies are increasingly supporting Linux."
So they port some of their software to one open source operating system - some years ago they might have done so for some other *ix. But still they want to sell something (hardware and/or software - which is not open source).
And does that make them use open office, mozilla and apache?
12. "It's free."
Most PCs offered today for home users include so much software they don't need to by any extra (except games of course) - and that for a price ofen less then the sum of the individual hardware components.
More than that, there just isn't enough oil to be worth it for the country. Looks like we're going to spend about $300 billion on this mess, and that's pretty conservatively more money than the total worth of all the Iraqi oil, so oil as a motive for the american people doesn't make sense, there just isn't enough.
However, there is enough to enrich Bush's cronies (halliburton), and they get rich from war Profiteering, they don't even need the oil, though I'm sure they'll try to take it anyway. It's a huge net loss for the american people (even without considering other costs), but Bush's cronies can siphon off a few percent of that loss, and that's billions of dollars, enough to be very rewarding for them.
Don't think that americans want oil, it's not worth it. That's what oil barrons want though, and that's what we get for (almost) electing one, and then lettnig the judiciary appoint him without flat out lynching Scalia, Thomas and Renquist.
As horrible as it sounds, a good old fashiones lynch mob would have been much better for our country, and everyone else's as well.
1. "The Internet is powered by open source."
2. "The Internet is the carrier for open source."
3. "The Internet is also the platform through which open source is developed."
4. "It's simply going to be more secure than proprietary software."
5. "Open source benefits from anti-American sentiments."
6. "Incentives around open source include the respect of one's peers."
7. "Open source means standing on the shoulders of giants."
8. "Servers have always been expensive and proprietary, but Linux runs on Intel."
9. "Embedded devices are making greater use of open source."
10. "There are an increasing number of companies developing software that aren't software companies."
11. "Companies are increasingly supporting Linux."
12. "It's free."
What Marc left out is ---
13. "I'm using it to offshore firstworld jobs to the third world, and I'm damned proud of it" Mar. 22, 2004 Toronto Star Article
Andreessen is not a friend to techies, He's our Benedict Arnold