NEC Develops Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid

zmcnulty writes "I've translated today's PC Watch article (Japanese) about a new tablet/PDA device from NEC - it has an 8.4" (640x480) touchscreen LCD, and a CD-ROM drive. It's also suprisingly affordable; about $645 USD. However, don't expect to be able to buy one soon, as production is limited to only 4,000 units for the first year. Still, this is an interesting prospect, and it's good to see major Japanese corporations interested in Linux."

Comments

Handheld Linux

[brolewis]

Being an avid handheld user (T3) I think that Linux on the handheld is a largely untapped medium. I think that the power and flexibility of Linux on something as small and effecient as a handheld is an excellent combinaiton. I also think that the open nature of Linux would work to the handheld's advantage. There are numerous times I wish I could tweak settings or applicaions on my handheld but I am not able to do so. I hope this is the beginning of a long-term shift in the handheld market.

Re:Handheld Linux

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Being an avid (insert random technology here), I think Linux on the (insert random hardware plaform here) is a largely untapped medium. I think that the power and flexibility of Linux on something as small and effecient as a (insert random hardware plaform here) is an excellent combinaiton. I also think that the open nature of Linux would work to the (insert random hardware plaform here) advantage. There are numerous times I wish I could tweak settings or applicaions on my (insert random hardware plaform here) but I am not able to do so. I hope this is the beginning of a long-term shift in the (insert random hardware plaform here) market.

Re:Handheld Linux

[amigoro]

>Being an avid handheld user (T3) I think that Linux on the handheld is a largely untapped medium. Pray, do explain why you think it is a largely untapped medium. Don't you think that if there was commercial potential, it would've been tapped a long time ago? >I think that the power and flexibility of Linux on something as small and effecient as a handheld is an excellent combinaiton. Why do you think that? Do you do the same things you do on a PDA that you do on a PC? Do you need all the raw power and flexibility of Linux on a handheld? Wouldn't it be fair to say you have to use a different paradigm when it come working with a handheld? >I also think that the open nature of Linux would work to the handheld's advantage. How? Elaborate please. Provide us with concrete examples. >There are numerous times I wish I could tweak settings or applicaions on my handheld but I am not able to do so. Do you really need Linux for that? >I hope this is the beginning of a long-term shift in the handheld market. So once they start running Linux, everything will be A-okay?

Re:Handheld Linux

[gl4ss]

heheh. yeah especially when 'it runs linux' is not really the answer to everything on handheld systems with environment as limited as the manufacturer has chosen.. the question is: "will the programs of my choosing be able to run on it?" not "does it run linux underneath somewhere where I can't see?"

I dont really care that much about if it runs linux/windowsCe/symbian/palmos as much I care about the ability to compile stuff that will run on it. just because 'it runs linux' doesn't mean it. a machine running linux can be quite effectively(as effectively as it matters) locked up from (unsigned or just from anything at all) 3rd party applications. Something people who are raving about 'it runs linux' phones & etc seem to be often forgetting.

Re:Handheld Linux

[Abreu]

And this is still modded insightful!

Re:Handheld Linux

[NanoGator]

"I think that the power and flexibility of Linux on something as small and effecient as a handheld is an excellent combinaiton."

Without a keyboard? Oh I don't think so.

Re:Handheld Linux

[Judebert]

I thought so too. Then I bought a Zaurus. It was beautiful for carrying around browsing, documents, pictures, games... but lousy for actual PDA software. The Sharp stuff was too simplistic, and the Linux stuff wouldn't run my 5+ years of data in the limited resources.

It was so bad I started writing a calendar/todo application for it, but my wife bought me a Clie before I finished, then washed the Z. The market is so small I didn't have any other incentive to finish it.

Tablets

[The_Mystic_For_Real]

It's good to see the idea that failed for Windows adopted by the Linux community.

Re:Tablets

[dealsites]

Yep. The site is slashdotted now so I can't really see how big this think is. I'm not quire sure I'd want to carry something around if it was bigger than a normal PDA.

--
Smack your momma good deals!

Re:Tablets

[ToadMan8]

I wouldn't say failed... I am a Gentoo desktop user but I am writing this to you during class from my Compaq tablet running XP Tablet. Ony M$ft bothered getting the buttons, screen rotation and extras working and it does quite well. Just because they didn't replace laptops doesn't make them a failure.

Re:Tablets

[hak1du]

At $2000 with a 3h battery life and 6 pounds of weight, TabletPC is a loser. At $650 with a 6h battery life and 3 pounds of weight, it could be a winner (this device has a 2h battery life and weighs 2 pounds; they should increase the battery capacity--they have the spare weight to do it).

Re:Tablets

[ibbey]

I'm not quire sure I'd want to carry something around if it was bigger than a normal PDA.

But you're not the target market. You're problem is that you are only seeing the way you would use it.

There are numerous people/industries who'd love something a bit more potent then a PDA, but don't need a full laptop. There are many similar products on the market already, and they do very well. They just aren't sold at retail. They are sold to vertical markets, often with custom software, and are usually sold at a substantial profit margin. If the price point is correct, and the features are reasonable, this will do well.

Personally, I'd buy one of these right now if they were available. This would make the ideal car-pc. While that might not be a big enough market to sustain the production for a long period, I'm willing to bet that they could easily sell 4000 units a year.

Another potential market: Replacing portable DVD players (judging from the number on the market, this seems like a reasonable market segment to aim for). This is no bigger, not much more expensive, and can be used for something other then playing DVDs. The article only mentions a cd player, but if they offer a DVD, that could be it's killer app.

Re:Tablets

[OsCarJ]

I would like to see someone build a tablet that runs completely over WiFi. Why waste battery life and weight cramming in a hard drive, cd-rom, huge processor, etc when wireless networks are cheap and ubiquitous.

Have a real computer somewhere run a small server app and handle the storage and let the tablet be just a dumb terminal. You would save weight and the batteries would last a whole day. Why the hell do I need a Pentium 4 processor in something that is basically just going to be used for display?

I wouldn't even mind if the server software only ran on Windows because I know it would only be a matter of time before someone made an open source version.

Re:Tablets

[LoudMusic]

It's good to see the idea that failed for Windows adopted by the Linux community.

I wouldn't say it failed. It just wasn't properly constructed. Tablets need to be true tablets. I don't need a keyboard, CD-Rom, floppy, hard drive, 64mb video (!!) and track pad on my tablet. I need a screen that uses a pen-tool, a phat wireless connection, and some good video with a low power processor. Make the screen 8.5" x 11" and 150dpi and you've got something.

Re:Tablets

[mtnharo]

MS tried something similar, but ended up with a poor execution. It was pretty much a remote display for a desktop that used the XP Pro Remote Desktop function. Due to their insistance that you need a license for each person using a machine, you could only use the tablet display or a regular monitor, but not both at the same time. Also, you couldn't do anything involving video or animation over it because the remote desktop protocol couldn't keep up.

The only way to make something like this work is to use the "server" machine for storage and extra cpu power, but most everything would still have to run locally on the tablet display in order to make it usable for real computing. It wouldn't need a P4, but something strong enough for basic use, geared for power efficiency (Transmeta or VIA chip maybe). It would save power/weight by not having a built-in HD or other drives. Some usb ports and SD/CF slots would cover storage, and the base system could load off of internal flash.

Well, whose going to build it first? It's basically a Network Computer like Sun always envisioned, but portable. Why hasn't it happened yet?

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[irokitt]

I agree, the idea of a tablet PC is rather moronic whatever the operating system.
As for sucking battery life, wonder if anyone will start making tablets with Transmeta processors. Might save some juice. But even that wouldn't make the idea very attractive to me.

only 640x480?

[ejaw5]

Sure 8.4" diag isn't large, but at least 800x600 would have been nicer. What they have is fine for your command prompt, but I'm sure it's gonna get pretty cramped once you start running Gnome/KDE and GUI apps..even with virtual desktops. Hopefully the included GUI software will have slimed-down/iconified buttons and such.

Re:only 640x480?

[Flamingcheeze]

Hopefully the included GUI software will have slimed-down/iconified buttons and such.

Hey, buddy... keep your slime off my buttons!

Re:only 640x480?

[davejenkins]

I would have to agree with this assessment, and add that JPY 68,000 is a lot to pay for something like this, especially when compared to the Sharp Zaurus C-760 PDA, which also "runs Linux", has 640x480, is Flash upgradable to a full open OS, and retails for JPY 45,000 (~$420).

The only thing this has going for it is the 8-inch screen, which is not so much of an advantage if it cannot fit in your pocket, and therefore must be treated like a full notebook PC.

Re:only 640x480?

[jc42]

The only thing this has going for it is the 8-inch screen, which is not so much of an advantage if it cannot fit in your pocket, and therefore must be treated like a full notebook PC.

Yeah; I remember back in the early days of the first Palm Pilots, when the original designer was quoted as saying "If it doesn't fit in your pocket, it won't be in your pocket."

That seems to me to be a rather important point that PDA makers (including current Palm gadgets) keep forgetting.

I have a couple-year-old Kyocera 6035 smartphone (PalmOS) that rides around in my pocket. I keep looking for something to come out that that's better. But they keep making them too big for my pocket.

And, of course, now you'd expect them to have both GSM and WiFi capability. It sucks to have to rent temp phones when outside the US, and to have to use a slow phone circuit for web access, meaning two minutes to download the first web page (and getting charged full connect time when not sending any packets). If there's a PDA-like gadget available here in the US like that, I haven't spotted it yet.

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[boarder8925]

Face it, a huge tablet isn't a PDA.

That depends. If you mean "PDA" as in "Personal Digital Assistant," then it is a PDA. If you mean "PDA" as in "Public Display of Affection," it's not.

Truth

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for your karma whore. You like this idea very much. You like PDAs very much. You wish you could tweak your PDA. You think the open nature of Linux would work to the PDA's advantage. Thank you for offering nothing of actual value that will be modded up. Speak in repeated short sentences that ends with a "I hope this is the beginning of..." statement that yet again doesn't actually say anything.

Re:Truth

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for offering nothing of actual value that will be modded up. Speak in repeated short sentences that ends with a "I hope this is the beginning of..." statement that yet again doesn't actually say anything.

Where the hell have you been?

You just described 90% of the posts here.

Re:Truth

[orthogonal]

Thank you for your karma whore. You like this idea very much. You like PDAs very much. You wish you could tweak your PDA. You think the open nature of Linux would work to the PDA's advantage. Thank you for offering nothing of actual value that will be modded up. Speak in repeated short sentences that ends with a "I hope this is the beginning of..." statement that yet again doesn't actually say anything.

Thank you for finally pointing this out. I like your post very much. We should point out Karma Whores. Like you do. I wish everybody did it. I think the open nature of Slashdot lends itself to this sort of meta-moderation. Even if it's ad hoc meta-moderation. Moderation via comments, not mod points. I hope this is the beginning of a reform of Slashdot. I hope this means we'll se fewer Karma Whores.

(Sheepish grin :) )

LookPal???

[ferrellcat]

Where do they get these names?

Seems kind of intimidating!

Re:LookPal???

[craXORjack]

Where do they get these names?

Seems kind of intimidating!

Yes, as in: 'Look Pal, I want my money back and I won't take no for an answer!'

Re:LookPal???

[ToadMan8]

J A P A N E S E ;)

$645 Affordable?

[puto]

Pardon me Antoine but you need to lay the crack pipe down and get a grip.

I have had top of the line Palms and PPCs with all the fixings and nowhere near paid that much. And these devices have *Loads* of software free and purchased on the market.

I use a Dell Axim supplied by work and am pretty happy with it.

I am daily linux user, have been for years. But 645? There goes the TCO argument.

I can get a laptop for 645. A 4 day trip to mexico.

Puto

Re:$645 Affordable?

[egomaniac]

I have had top of the line Palms and PPCs with all the fixings and nowhere near paid that much. And these devices have *Loads* of software free and purchased on the market.

My top-of-the-line Sony Clie UX50 + 1GB memory stick cost nearly $1,000.

Not sure what definition you are using for "top-of-the-line", since a top-of-the-line Palm is definitely in this price range. $645 for a cool electronic gadget may not be "affordable" to everybody, but there is obviously no shortage of people who are willing to fork it out.

Re:$645 Affordable?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Those prices are also for the Japanese market. It might be less if produced for the US. Or not. It really depends. I also wouldn't suggest comparing the price of one type of device in one country with a high cost of living with that of a different kind of device sold in a different country with a much lower cost of living.

Comparing it to Palms and Pocket PCs doesn't jive well as the screen has over four times the visible screen area.

Re:$645 Affordable?

[ibbey]

I have had top of the line Palms and PPCs with all the fixings and nowhere near paid that much. And these devices have *Loads* of software free and purchased on the market.

RTFA. This isn't a PDA. What was the last PDA you bought that had a built in CD-ROM?

This is a product aimed squarely at vertical markets. If you've ever priced vertical market hardware, you'll know that they don't intend to compete pricewise with consumer hardware. People who need the features will pay the premium.

BTW, $645 may be a lot for a PDA, but it's certainly not unheard of. Most companies offer a model priced at or above $600. The only exception in the major brands is probably Palm-- they top out at $500.

Once again, you need to consider the target market that NEC is aiming for. Just because you don't see a use for this device, doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Re:$645 Affordable?

[NanoGator]

"Think of how many blowjobs you could afford with $645."

One really great one, or 645 from your mom.

Re:$645 Affordable?

[CrosseyedPainless]

Thank you for your services as Smackdown Masta.

I was just thinking

[HappyCitizen]

Whats the point of linux on a pda? I mean, Windows Mobile does it just fine. Its 100% designed for mobile, and even coming from microsoft, I never find it crashing. I was gonna install linux, but I didn't want to risk everything, and it was pointless I realized. Windows Mobile does everything just fine, I know your not used to hearing something good about Microsoft on /., but its true. Now, with a hybrid, it still sounds a little huge for a pda. I think once it gets that big, its really a tablet, in which case linux is a great idea. I think this is a whole new angle from which linux could attack the Mobile market, and in this case be worth it, and its advantages will be shown.

Re:I was just thinking

[UnknowingFool]

I mean, Windows Mobile does it just fine. Its 100% designed for mobile, and even coming from microsoft, I never find it crashing. I was gonna install linux, but I didn't want to risk everything, and it was pointless I realized.

I would think the main reason would be would be cost. Companies either build their own OS (like Palm) or license from another company (Palm, MS, etc) or customize an open source OS like Linux. Cost wise adapting Linux may be cheaper in some cases than licensing. With PDA prices slipping, cutting every cost is important.

For hobbyists,teh reason to install Linux is probably boredom, curiosity, etc. It's the same reason why people overclock or mod their cases.

Re:I was just thinking

[ibbey]

Windows adds ALOT to the price. I'm not sure what MS actually charges for a license for Wince (or whatever they're calling it this week), but I seriously doubt it's less then $50 & I wouldn't be surprised if it was over $100.

Linux PDA's are expensive for two reasons: their target market, and their sales. One, most Linux PDA's aim for the high end of the market. Sure you can buy a (slightly) cheaper Ipaq, but does t have the same features as the Zaurus?

Second, the market for Linux PDA's is currently fairly small. Because of this, the price is artificially high. Once sales volumes go up, the price will come down. Sales volumes will only go up once the product reaches a certain level of maturity, and that will only happen once they have been on the market a while. Every new Linux PDA increases product awareness & improves the market.

Re:I was just thinking

[jayteedee]

A full OS (Linux or Windows) would be great on a PDA. I don't own a PDA type system because they don't do enough for me yet. I'm still waiting for the next generation which will basically be a full fledge computer the size of a PDA, or iPod. Think entire computer minus monitor, keyboard and mouse. I'll have a keyboard, mouse, and monitor wearever I go, and I'll just plug in my "PDA" wherever I am, and poof, I'll have all my stuff with me. I press a button and the machine goes into "standby" or "hibernate" modes (al la Windows). I'd only use the PDA functions and LCD screen to access document's that I already have created, and make minor changes (add name, appointment, address, phone number, etc). Since the full OS comes in the handheld, I can open and edit anything, limited only by my small keyboard and imput device. I don't need/want to create new documents on the PDA, I mostly need a reference device and calandar, phone book, etc. This would be a fabulous device, and if Linux can own the space before Windows walks in, all the better. Some of the nano-ATX (was that the name that VIA gave the new version?) motherboards are getting down to the size I'm after. Put a 1" or 1.8" harddrive to boot and hold data, and I've basically got what I'm after (small LCD screen too). Mix in one of those small QWERTY keyboards with a sliding cover that come on some PDA's and I'm even closer.

Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid

[Sla$hd0tSux0r]

Well, some colleagues and I investigated a Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid a few months ago. The upshot was that we are somewhat unimpressed... there are more powerful solutions hitting the market soon, and less expensive to boot.

Basically, we thought the Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid was totally overrated and would recommend against it at this time.

Re:Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid

[hak1du]

Basically, we thought the Linux Tablet/PDA Hybrid was totally overrated and would recommend against it at this time.

Well, that depends on what your needs are. At $650, this Linux "Tablet/PDA hybrid" would be great for our needs, and none of the current Palm, PocketPC, or TabletPC offerings satisfy our needs: their operating systems are too limited, they are too expensive, and/or their screens and hardware are too limited. A Linux tablet with a 640x480 screen and a CD-ROM would be great for our needs.

If you are just looking for a replacement for your Palm Zire, then you are right: a Linux Tablet isn't for you. But if those are your needs, just about anything will work for you.

translations

[geeber]

Apparantly some phrases, such as "surprisingly affordable," translate better than others...

$650 as surprisingly afforadble? Sheesh.

Re:translations

[Jeff DeMaagd]

$650 as surprisingly afforadble? Sheesh.

For the japanese market, yes, it is probably pretty affordable. Japan ranks among the top in terms of cost of living countries. If you think housing is expensive where you live, don't ever look at a condo in Tokyo.

Re:translations

[HoldmyCauls]

As opposed to the $1600USD that the toshiba tablet PC costed (at my store we're finally getting around to selling the display model).

That makes the Linux one just over 3/8 the cost of the Windows one.

Re:*ring-ring*...

[Trelane]

...1998 is calling--it wants its "M$" back.

Actually, 1998 wants its Blue Screen of Death back. "M$" is a perennial favorite, esp. given MSFT's penchant for a) charging exorbitant prices for its stuff and b) making unheard-of fortunes (to the tune of $4 billion per quarter).

Taskbars existed before Microsoft. They were in the form of icon collection boxes under various WMs (Window Managers).

Minimize, maximize, and close button locations have varied widely, and are extremely configurable under Linux and are very arbitrary. The only "intuitiveness" about the location is where people have been programmed to look for 'em.

Print dialogs are standardized to various things. Again, "intuitiveness" is (almost) entirely pre-programming.

Browser file integration has existed before MSFT got involved (via the file:/// URL). MSFT upped the ante, though. Whether this is due to trying to crush the competition and dominate an important software sector or enhancing the end user desktop experience depends on whose kool-aid you drink.

"Start" menus again are of dubious intuitiveness. Personally, I found the click-on-root-window-to-bring-up-menus method of various WMs to be much more useful. .Net is Java (and indeed the concept of "virtual machine") rehashed and refined and (in the case of most of what people consider ".Net") Microsoft-only. Not a terrible lot of actual innovation there.

I'm not saying MSFT doesn't come up with interesting stuff, just that you need to come up with better examples. ;)

One example I'm curious about is tear-away/docking toolbars. I know toolbars/palettes existed before MSFT, but I don't know if the tear-away/docking kind did. Anyone have more info?

Actually, Go, Apple, GRiD, HP &c. innovated

[WillAdams]

_not_ MS.

Microsoft was actually rather late to the pen computing game --- and only got there by twisting Go Corp.'s invitation to develop apps to an excuse to create pen extensions for Windows since Go didn't follow their suggestion to do so (extrapolation of Jerry Kaplan's version in his book _StartUp_ and the spin placed on the same event in the book _Building Tablet PC Applications_)

Heck, even Atari had a prototype, the STylus.

There was also a Linus machine (no relation to a certain Thorvalds) which a few people have prototypes of.

And of course there was the ill-fated Momenta.

I've been a pen computing afficionado for a long while, and the machines have really gotten practical of late (power, battery life, are decent, storage is phenomenal).

Using a pen system means I've got all of my data with me, and can use it / manipulate it, _without_ needing to sit down and set up / make room for a clamshell laptop (I've been buying laptops since 1985 (GRiDCase III Plus), they're nice enough, but more awkward to use than a pen slate, less acceptable in some situations (meetings, interviews), and require that I schelp around a graphics tablet in addition (okay, graphic designers are pretty much unique in needing that).

But it's a _lot_ easier to mark up a .pdf w/ annotations using a pen than a mouse, esp. with the new Adobe Acrobat 6 (killer app for Linux, extend xpdf to allow it to annotate and fill in .pdf formas), and I don't have to spend time scanning my (paper) sketchbook, or transcribing notes from it.

This device is really interesting 'cause of the size (much smaller than most Tablet PCs --- guess they didn't want to compete with their own LitePad) and for its internal CD-ROM drive --- can you say portable e-book reader? (I'm thinking like the kid CD-ROMs, Living Books, Tivoli, et. al.)

William

Re:Actually, Go, Apple, GRiD, HP &c. innovated

[josh glaser]

Yeah...if Apple made a tablet (now) I would buy it...it'd be awesome for running Photoshop, etc. on without having to shell out for a megabuck Wacom Cintiq...

Re:Actually, Go, Apple, GRiD, HP &c. innovated

[WillAdams]

My first thought on seeing the iMac G4 was, ``detachable screen, integrated processor, battery, storage, pen slate''.

Apple really could do a pen slate very nicely, it plays to a lot of their strengths, and unlike Microsoft, which charges extra for Tablet PC Edition of Windows XP Pro, InkWell (nee Rosetta, the Newton OS 2.x print recognizer) is bundled w/ all copies of the OS (at no extra expense to Apple either).

Battery life too.

Used to be one could install NeXTstep on a 105MB HD --- surely Apple could manage something in say half a gig (or just increase their volume on the 4GIG HDs being used for the iPod Mini and use that).

Oh yeah, one kind of bummer about this device --- there were considering using the spiffy TRON embedded OS, but apparently it was easier to make use of the CD-ROM using Linux. Rather a shame that, I'd love to have a consumer device running TRON (or a desktop either, anyone know of straightforward English instructions on how to install it and set it up?)

William

Re:Timothy, you fucking retard.

[zmcnulty]

Believe it or not, I'm the one that wrote that.

I chose "suprisingly affordable" because the main product I was comparing the NEC to is Sony's Airboard, which retails for 136,500 yen (around $1,300 USD) just by form factor. Obviously, the Airboard has more functionality, but details on the NEC device are still scarce.

Re:Slightly edited Babelfish translation

[base_chakra]

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs... accidentally set it to HTML.

Re:*ring-ring*...

[zulux]

Ahem...

* Taskbars
TRS-80 CoCo with Microware OS-9 had a Taskbar - in 1986
* Maximize, minimize, and close buttons in the upper-right corner.
My TRS-80 with Microware OS-9 has these. You could could configure them where you liked them. In 1986.
* The standard print dialog.
I'm impressed - Microsoft made a dialog.
* Internet browser/file browser integration.
Make your OS just as bugy as your browser. Great Idea!!!
* "Start" menus
Copied off of NeXT.
* .NET technology -
Copied off of Java and Pcode
* ...and much, much more

Like....

Clippy!
Product Activation!
Serial Codes!
No support for Alpha, Risc, PowerPC.

The only thing Microsoft did was to get 386 computesr to behave like computers costing much more (UNIX Workstations, Apples..) . Now that hardware performance is a lot cheaper - there's no need to run crappy software like Windows. You can get the real deal.

Re:*ring-ring*...

[plastik55]

I first saw "tear-off" menus in Hypercard (Mac OS, ca. 1986 or so)

remove cdrom and add usb+wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

nice gadget though, my first thought was.. take out the clumsy cdrom and add wireless, so the translator also suggested.

actually, leave out the wireless, just allow for usb, then you could add wireless through a usb plug-in.

the tablet might(will) become the tv companion(client) laying around the couch in numbers for each or most family member. thanks to this tv companion with wireless network connection each tv viewer will engage more interactively with quiz shows, talk shows, movies, competitions, polls, et al. but keep it cheap, slim and modular.

if any tv/media company wants to know what I'm talking about, call the number at: http://sophistic.com (hey it worked when I last talked about watch phones, IBM called ;) I can imagine, imagine that.

njoy.

sleep/wake fails under Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

And about using Windows, "Apart from the cost being high, we wanted the ability to save the state of the device to memory immediately before powering off - and be able to resume work in that same position when the device is power on again. But since operating the device in this fashion made freezes very likely, we let Windows go."

This is the truth. All I need to do to lock up my Thinkpad is to close the lid, wait just long enough for Windows to *begin* going to sleep, and then open the lid again. At that point, the laptop is hung. Reliably. Works every time. It's probably one of the most reliable aspects of Windows...

WiFi?

[Geccoman]

So, this thing doesn't mention wireless. I don't think I would want one of these if it didn't have integrated wireless technology.

RTFA

[rokzy]

The operating system used is Linux. NEC has explained that "We were originally looking at TRON, but due to some problems with using the CD-ROM, we went with Linux." And about using Windows, "Apart from the cost being high, we wanted the ability to save the state of the device to memory immediately before powering off - and be able to resume work in that same position when the device is power on again. But since operating the device in this fashion made freezes very likely, we let Windows go."

Re:RTFA

[gglaze]

"...we wanted the ability to save the state of the device to memory immediately before powering off - and be able to resume work in that same position when the device is power on again. But since operating the device in this fashion made freezes very likely, we let Windows go."

Just curious - isn't this exactly what Windows allows you to do (i.e. Hibernate and/or Suspend in XP, or normal power down/resume in PocketPC/MobileOS)?

I'm not sure I understand what NEC is trying to say here - clearly MS has as many (reliable) options for state persistence as Linux, if not more. n'est pas?

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[rokzy]

also, if you're using the definition of "Personal" of "annoying to others" e.g. Personal Stereo, Personalised Ringtones... then the bigger it is, the more Personal it is, and hence the more PDA it is.

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you give Microsoft credit for the idea of a mobile computer client with a touch screen and accessories?

All they should have credit for as a company in this case is to jump the bandwagon.. but giving them credit as the inventor in the year of 1998 or any year prior, geez.

Are you applying for a position at the patent office?

Ahh, they are giving it a Linux look and feel

[alphakappa]

coz it looks like my old school lunchbox.

Wow, haven't we come far in 5 years?

[Tarantismic Yak]

No, no we haven't :0) The Toshiba Portege 3010/3020 series, released in 1998, is smaller volumetrically, has 64MB from factory, probably a faster processor ( especially the 3020CT ) and is more than FIVE years old! Toshiba's brochures are still available:

3010CT
3020CT

A bit more here:

http://www.ids.org.au/~shaynest/articles/portege/

The NEC is larger, volume wise. Yes, it has a CD drive built in, but who uses those things on the road anyway? Sheesh. How did this make NEWS?

Or Tablet PC!

[rump_carrot]

Hi Guys

Here's another one - Tablet PC.

I'm no Microsoft lover (been using Linux for ~ 6 years now), but I gotta tell you, my new Tablet PC is extremely cool (Gateway M275 convertible). Very usefull as well.

I truly hope the open source community will see the importance of this form factor and get on the bandwagon - Tablet PCs offer the ability to read like an e-book, write with a pen, or carry out traditional computing in the notebook fashion.

Just my thoughts, now flame away at me (and yes Apple fans, I know there once was the Newton, but where is the Apple Tablet now? I looked for one, had to settle for the Microshaft version)

Just buy a laptop

[Gothmolly]

For this price, get a used laptop or iBook off ebay and throw Linux on it. Then you'll get a real display, HD, expandibility, etc. No cramped screen, no expensive wifi cards, just a real system, but one that you can take with you. Like here
650 USD, done.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[zmcnulty]

But would this be simple?
Maybe for you, but for the market of this device, no.
The article explains that there are only 4 icons that appear when the device is powered on, stuff does not need to be double clicked, etc...
It uses England's Picsel Technologies browser, which opens 20 different file formats, right from said application.
Sure, there may have been other devices in the past with the same functionality, and certainly cheaper options are available, but NEC's focus for this device is ease of operation. This is one of the reasons they are marketing it towards municipalities for tourism, it's intended to be usable by anyone.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[value_added]

Don't know whether you buy much on eBay, but the "Reserve Not Met" should be an indicator that it's not going to be selling for 650USD. My guess 750 at minimum.

That said, I do think there is a market for "larger" sized PDA/readers. So does NEC come to think of it. Personally I'm waiting for something I can use soley to read reference/technical documentation, maybe something along the lines of those gadgets we saw used on StarTrek episodes.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[gborland]

Picsel Technologies are actually Scottish, not English.

Re:*ring-ring*...

[The Bungi]

I'm impressed - Microsoft made a dialog.

Well, you should be impressed - after all, it took GNOME and/or KDE sever years and releases to make halfway useable dialogs. And they're still not standardized and therefore confusing.

The rest of your post is of course the same tired bullshit everyone tends to spit out every time this comes up, except that interestingly you didn't use the XEROX PARC as the end of the string. "Clippy"? HAHAHAH!!! You forgot "M$ BOB"!!

This all non-innovative crap "M$" keeps churning out... I just don't understand why KDE and GNOME and everyone else keep copying it (badly) year after year. It's distressing, I know. I mean, they copy the Windows shell, Outlook, Visual Studio, .NET, Office, etc. It's maddening, I tell you!

Re:*ring-ring*...

[d00ber]

Tcl/Tk had tearoff menus 8-9 years ago during early Win95 days

I'm pretty sure M$ didn't have this then.

my linux handheld costs even more at $699

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got a linux handheld with a 640x480 4" screen, the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000L, from PC Connection for $699.

It was quite inexpensive compared to a Dell Axim, in the sense that the Dell Axim costs ALMOST NOTHING TO PRODUCE, so more of your money can go to wiping out Linux when you purchase the Axim.

Yes, you who purchase the Axim and put Linux on it could, if you would follow your few dollars, find them wending their way to Redmond, and thence to SCO, or wherever the people who are threatened by Linux wish to apply it.

Your total cost of ownership is quite a bit higher than your initial outlay because of this. Also, MY total cost of ownership is higher because you do this, so I am asking you to stop! Buy something with Linux pre-installed for a change!

p.s. The display on the SL-6000L is magnificent! I think a lot of my extra cash went into that.

Falls a little short of my expectations...

[barfarf]

I really, really would have hoped for an 800x600 screen as well. I've really been looking for sort of a faster version of the Siemens Simpad (www.opensimpad.org). I bought one last year with an 8.4" screen that's 800x600 and a 200mhz ARM processor. I paid close to $400 for it. It also has a full blown PCMCIA slot.

Lose the CD..

[-tji]

I think there is, or at least will be, a market for tablet devices. But the options thus far have been crap. A desktop OS, like XP, on a tablet form factor, just doesn't work.

First, portability is important. No, it doesn't need to fit in a shirt pocket. But, a two inch thick brick is not ganna work either. Lose the CD drive, it's not useful enough to waste the space for. Get the thickness down to that of a Palm V, while being lightweight and durable, and you've got something.

Even the hard drive is questionable.. Put enought flash memory in it to hold the OS and Apps. Include a could SD slots for expansion/removable media. Of course, Wifi and bluetooth are needed, along with a USB 2.0 port or two.

Re:Lose the CD..

[aardwolf204]

You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly the device I want. 0.5" thick, Flash Memory, 8" LCD with very little border, maybe a scroll wheel and 1 button on the right side of it (lefties can flip it upside down and reset the screen), WiFi, SD or CF slot, USB for charging, docking, periferials. 800x600 though, loose the 640 res its just going to cause headaches on the net. hate to say it but 800x600 seems to be a "web standard" for the time being.

Hell if this thing ran LCARS I'd be toting it from Main Engineering to the Bridge and back with me all the time (i wish).

I believe they got it right by making the OS simple with few icons however LCARS seems perfect for this type of device. (Is there a LCARS linux window manager?)

Now I just need one of these and a comunicator (mentioned a few weeks ago on /.) and I'm ready to start routing warp plasma through eps conduits to the main deflector array creating an inverse takeon pulse ripping apart subspace while solving sherlock holmes mysteries on the holodeck.

/me NERD

Monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

What I want to know is, if I connect it to my computer, will it work as a 2nd monitor/sketchpad.

THAT would make it worth the money. It's nearest competition from Wacom (admittedly higher-end) is over 2k. And you'd be able to take it with you if you want to draw on location.

good!

[Sarin]

- step 1: make 4000 tablet pc's
- step 2: NEC30CD-ROM LOOKCLUB68,250()
- step 3: profit!

What is this for?

[kiwioddBall]

I can't think of any reason why anyone would own one.

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[warkda rrior]

Compaq-son-of-HP (used to?) make the TC1000 with a Transmeta processor.

Still too big.

[enkidu]

I'm sorry, if you can't grip it in one hand easily and write on it, then it ends up being a three-hand affair, two to hold the tablet steady and one to draw/write/type. Personally, I think the Apple Newton was the perfect "Super-PDA/Tablet" form factor. Not something you want to carry in your shirt pocket, but something you carry around at work or as a PC replacement on the go. The Newton's screen was just under 6" (480x320), but one could conceivably fit a wide/tall screen of 8" diagonal, perhaps (768x512) in the same form factor. If I'm giving up the power of a laptop, I want to lose the bulk of the laptop also. My dream PDA is described in my journal entry. where I mention the SuperPDA concept.

Re:Still too big.

[WillAdams]

I sympathise and agree for the most part. Still haul out my Newton MP 100 occasionally for the odd jaunt.

That said, I've pretty much given up on w small device as a constant companion, switched to black leather Palm Notes Pad from Levenger (www.levenger.com) which holds business cards and 2.5" x 3.5" note cards or paper folded to similiar sizes (a legal sheet cut a few times and then folded fits in it quite nicely making a very elegant accordion book). I've a slightly larger Circa notebook I carry when I'm expecting inspiration and will be away from a wall outlet.

For the rest of the time, I've switched to a Fujitsu Stylistic. It works quite well, and is pretty much fast enough for all the reasonable things I want to do with it (running Virtual PC is not working out though, and XFree86 in Cygwin requires a certain calmness and patience). It's a bit smaller than most laptops, certainly smaller than my ThinkPad in its Port case.

The best thing (of course) is all the spiffy Windows software --- I'd dearly love to see alternatives under Linux or Mac OS X though:

- ArtRage --- http://www.ambientdesign.com (this is my digital sketchbook)

- Fractal Design Expression --- managed to snag a copy ov v1. It kills me that Microsoft renegged on their promise to make v3 available again in November 2003 after purchasing the company, see http://www.creaturehouse.com

- FutureWave SmartSketch --- _This_ is just about perfect since it came to Windows and Classic Mac OS from Go Corporation's PenPoint.

- LyX (oh yeah, this works in Linux already ;)

- TeX / Omega (see http://www.tug.org/texshowcase for why ;)

- Dirk Stuve's WinTeXShell supports HWR (as does the Windows QT version of LyX ;)

Various other standard bits, most notably Extended Character Map (the standard Windows Character Map doesn't work well w/ a pen). Check http://www.tinyapps.org or www.pricelessware.com

I'm still debating licensing PenOffice (http://www.phatware.com).... and am looking for a better MP3 player (currently using 1by1). And I'm still looking for a better file manager 2xplorer seems the best of the free ones thus far.

William

Since its come up... palmtop advisement?

[Amgine0]

What I need is something bigger than a pda, smaller than the tablets I've looked at, purpose is to be carried around by non-techies to fill out forms with vital statistics and brief jargon-laden notes which are then dumped to a processing script on a server.

The optimal solution must be light and physically robust, be very very easy to use. The users are absolutely uninterested in the technology/gee whiz factor; they're busy doing something else and charting/notes are the biggest time cost in their lives.

Any suggestions?

'interesting' that japanese are interested...

[BlueboyX]

Um, they are more 'interested' in Linux than we are! Well, kind of... When I visited Kyoto, all the university nerds wanted to learn was Windows because all the universities tought was Linux. In my university in the US we wanted to learn Linux while all that the university (Columbus State University) tought was windows. :P

Well, my point is to not be too suprised when you see a Japanese product runing Linux because a LOT of Japanese students are being tought how to use it and program for it.

What does this have to do with...

[bonch]

...Linux ripping them off?

All you've proved is that Linux is ripping off features Windows made popular, though ripped off from previous efforts.

What does this have to do with Linux copying Windows?

Tablets arent ready..

[artlu]

I think tablets do have a potential future in the student/business market, and Linux has an opportunity to dominate if more developers jump on the wagon. Microsoft is taking huge software leaps with Journal, OneNote, etc., and the Linux community needs to catch up. Personally, I won't buy a tablet until it can have 100% handwriting recognition + streaming TV + 100% voice recognition + video recording of some sort built-in. Now, that I see as a good product!

Only dreams...

That's not part of the original article.

[pario]

The first paragraph of the English page is an opinion of the translater and not included in the origial Japanese article. No, I don't think any Japanese would consider $650 as "surprisingly affordable." We Japanese are crazy about those electric gadgets, I know, but we are not THAT crazy!

1 step forward...2 steps back

[MrIrwin]

There have been some very nice "book" sized computers over the years. My favourite was the Olivetti M10 (try Google for lots of links, I don't want to pick one!).

I am talking computers with just enougth keyboard and display to be able to write or use a spreadsheet comfortably, and precious little else.

In the past many of these kept thier software in ROM, data in RAM, and had no aspirations to mimick a desktop or server OS. Better still, they did not bother with fancy graphics or WySIWIG.

Battery life was long and they ran a couple of seconds after turning them on (Much like, say, a Palm).

Frankly, 15 years after the M10, there is no comparable product on the market, nothing comes close.

A modern day M10 could have USB, including use of USB keys, software in flash, and of course internet conectivity, with a WAP browser and pine like reader.

Cost.....$100

Finally the Star Trek PADD I've been waiting for

[aardwolf204]

I've always said I wanted a wireless enabled device thats bigger than a PDA and smaller than a tablet like the pads they use on Star Trek. One of these babies running an ARM processor with WiFi and thinner (no CDROM) would kick major butt. And since it runs linux I asume there is some way I could whip it up to look like LCARS. (LCARS Linux distribution anyone? Please? Linky?!)

Ok, maybe this is just another one of my geek fantasies (like having 24" touch-lcd screens mounted on my walls for quick home automation and internet access) but I'm sure other slashgeeks out there share the dream. Glad to know we're one step closer.

More Linux Tablet PCs

[wehe]

There are more Tablet PCs, which come pre-installed with Linux. But almost none of them has made it into the market yet.

Re:Stupid M$ "Innovation"

[Lumpy]

first off you are so mis-informed it isn't funny. I have been using Tablet Pc's for over 15 years now. My first tablet Pc was a Dauphin DTR-1 and the idea for it came from a small company that made an innovative device that was used by a large number of FBI agents in the early 90's. Microsoft and windows was an afterthought and they only jumped on the band-wagon later. I have had many tablet pc's through that time and my favorite to this day is still the old fujitsu Stylistic LT that is only a Pentium 233MMX processor. (OMG! how can you do anything with a slow processor!) with a special rebuilt battery pack using today's battery technology I go ALL DAY without a need to charge the tablet. and Yes, I run linux on it because microsoft's pen extensions for tablet pc's SUCK and have sucked bad cince the Windows for Workgroups days. (Those were the best pen extensions to windows ever. they worked near perfectly and seamlessly.)

When I worked as a Microbiologist and Water Chemist I used tablet pc's exclusively. Today I am the only one in the manager's meetings with one and I am still much more productive is using it correctly than the managers sitting there with laptops, or the ones that bought a new tablet pc for hugse $$$ with way too much power and trying to use it as a laptop without a keyboard.

tablet pc's are NOT a laptop, if you think you can use it like a laptop then you dont know how to use a tablet pc and should not own one. They are more efficent as a larger PDA with insane storage and capabilities as well as a realistic input/display area.

Microsoft tries over and over again to make a tablet PC something that it is not and they fail miserably every single time... It must be a pet project of Bill Gates or someone else that does not understand what a tablet PC really is.

so please, go and do some research, go and actually learn about tablet pc's.

I've seen this before...

[fux]

Isn't it an Etch A Sketch?

Next best thing thats already here

[computechnica]

This COBY 7" DVD player with built in screen is more compact than the flip up screen models, it looks like a tablet. It plays Audio CDs, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD=R, DVD+RW, and MP3 or JPEG files recorded to CD-R/CD-RW discs. It also comes with a large set of accesories for $399. I bought this for my kids for xmas to watch on road trips.

Cool!

[jav1231]

Looks like they're following suit with Linux PDA companies and staying about $100-200 above the competition.

It's already been done

[dreamchaser]

Philips already makes one.

Re:It's already been done

[mtnharo]

Yeah, that's one version of the MS remote display. A few companies made them, but few, if any, people bought into the concept due to the limitations.

aiming too high again

[fikx]

I'd like something simple. Why all the extra baggage when they make these? Tablet PC's, PDA/tablet hybrids, palmtop, they all try to aim too high. I just want a modern day PDA (or pocket PC) with a bigger screen. Is that hard to do? Is there a design problems I'm not getting?
My ideal version would be the zaurus 5500 with a big screen. No other changes PERIOD. Sharp? Are you listening? anyone started a hardware hack for that? I guess it's need a bigger battery too, but that's it.

Handheld Linux + WIFI + Home computer + relaxation

[Lotharjade]

You know, if you get it so that this has WIFI, can join up with your home computer, and set it as a second monitor, this could rock. What you would get is you could chug away at the computer, then grab the tablet and go lie down on couch or bed and sit and read web pages on your browser of the main computer. COOL. Then when you get up, you could transition back to the main computer without having to reopen everything.

Japan

[naChoZ]

it's good to see major Japanese corporations interested in Linux.

Having just recently picked up a zaurus and started delving into locating online resources, I can say it doesn't surprise me to see Japanese corporations interested in Linux. There's a truckload of japanese Zaurus resources. ezaurus.com for one.

Re:*ring-ring*...

[zulux]

It's maddening, I tell you!

No it not! I think it's quite funny!

MSFT stock going sideways for years, Linux gaining marketshare. It's great!

Fat vs. Thin Tablet

[carabela]

IGEL and Neoware (manufacturers of thin clients) have models coming up that in plain words are a thin tablet client:
They have I/O such as USB and touchscreen, of course a wireless NIC, but don't rely on harddisks and such.

These devices are of course only meaningful in an area with wireless LAN and terminal server capacity available. Examples:
hospitals, museums, (retail) stores, warehouses etc.

I for one miss better performance on these battery dependent devices (at least compared to a fat Tablet), but as mentioned in previous /. article, Hitachi is leading the way with fuel cell powered units. Wheeehaa!

Re:*ring-ring*...

[The Bungi]

Well you just keep saying that and maybe one day it will actually happen.