There was recently a multi-part series about Rome on BBC - but I'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with the HBO series. It seemed to be focused on things like what girls in Rome had to do to be popular and to earn enough money to eat (i.e. basically prostitution). I saw a bit of one or two of the episodes, and the quality of the show was certainly nothing like a proper HBO-quality series - I haven't seen the HBO one yet, but I'm sure they are two different things.
This should be obvious anyways, because UK channels are always about 2-3 years behind HBO (and most other US channels/shows) in reruns - i.e. I think we are still getting some Sex and the City episodes for the first time here.
And most people who make comments like that are still writing things like obj.get_Name() to represent a getter property of an object... or worse yet, obj->get_Name()... and have no idea that there is a whole new brave, beatiful, elegant world outside of their sphere of awareness.
Spend some time and get to know new technologies before disparaging them - you may learn that there are newer innovations beyond what was invented decades ago.
Generally I agree with you, but just want to point something out - it sounds like you are saying that somehow apps written in Java are not vulnerable to SQL injection attacks. Clearly that's not true. Or am I missing something?
For starters, they recuperated part of the cost incurred when they had to spend their own time to deal with this issue, in terms of development and support effort on Hotmail. I doubt they recuperated all of their losses there - maybe not more than a token amount really.
Isn't that what you would do if you ran a free public e-mail service that was getting slammed by someone overloading it with spam illegally?
1. Some of us who work on OSS projects don't do it for the philosophical reasons that you do. We do it because we enjoy technical challenges in many forms, and also because there are some types of software that are developed in OSS that would never be developed well professionally. Or maybe sometimes we just do it for the free (as in beer) reasons.
2. The policies of the company we work at do not necessarily represent our own personal character. Microsoft in particular is a huge company, with many employees who are there for many reasons. Not all MS employees are enthusiasts of monopolist policies, just as not all Americans support the War in Iraq. Going there to get a job is not selling your soul to the devil, as many here on/. might want so badly to believe - it is just a job.
I think you are referring to corporate policy here - i.e. what MS and/or it's partners choose to use. There are plenty of corporations out there, based on MS and also on other technology, that choose not to use OSS for a variety of reasons.
My point was more about this individual (the one being interviewed here) and his personal ability to be involved in OSS. This particular comment, and the title itself ("stranger in a strange land") seems to imply that working for MS and being personally involved in OSS are two mutually exclusive things. In reality, there are many people who do both concurrently.
In fact, you may be interested in doing a quick search around the web for a number of OSS projects that are led by MS employees. At least one of these is in fact even officially supported by MS.
You might not realize this, but there is actually Open-Source Software outside of Linux. Some of us who work with Microsoft technology regularly also deal with open source projects. Or do you think people who go to work at MS sign some kind of agreement that they cannot concurrently be involved in any kind of OSS development?
Actually, I think IE has already been doing something like that for some time now. I don't know the exact details of how it works, but it definitely does partial refreshes of only specific areas of the screen in some cases. I think it may actually have something to do with optimization when IE is communicating with IIS, but I could be wrong...
Since when is an unencrypted signal entering your private space... not yours to use?
Not that I disagree with your point at all, but just to point out:
Clearly you don't live in the UK, where you have to pay a tax for watching "public" TV (via antenna). Not that everyone actually pays it, but technically they are supposed to...
Exactly - who modded this Funny?? Is there some some inside joke that we're not getting?
Personally, I think this response is a shame, because it is fairly informative, but totally misses the point - that IIS is light years ahead of Apache in terms of being easy to configure, and most who are knowledgeable on both systems here seem to agree with that.
The IIS management UI is really not that sophisticated or special - it is just simple and straight-forward. I don't understand why no one in the OOS community has gone to the trouble of reproducing something closer to that for Apache. Or better - it's not like the IIS console is actually a "great" UI - it is just good enough to get the job done, but certainly there are many areas for improvement.
C for general purpose.
Perl for string hacking.
sh for shell tasks.
I think you left out...
C#/Java for solving real business problems in an efficient and professional manner.
I mean, are you serious? Either you are wasting your time messing around all day with linker errors, or you are writing unstructured spaghetti code for dealing with strings... I can't decide which is worse!
Just so you don't get off clean thinking he was wrong and you were right, I agree with the other poster - you are definitely a dinosaur. I mean, not even a C++ evolving quatro-ped, but just barely up from the COBAL aomebas and other single-celled organisms!
Am I the only one who kept thinking that while reading aloud to myself Professor Hiroshi Ishiguro's comment:
"Lepriee Q1 can interact with people. It can respond to people touching it. It's very satisfying, although we obviously have a long way to go yet."
But seriously, I was uder the impression 'L's and 'R's were generally difficult for native Japaneese speakers to distinguish - so how did they end up with a Japanese-built robot with this name? Does it actually have an entirely different name in Japan?
Why is it that any time someone mentions a Linux technology that is more than 6 months old, everyone screams that you can't use that as a valid basis of comparison because you have to look at the newest Linux stuff, when it is perfectly valid to use a several-generations-old technology as the key point in an anti-MS argument?
In any case, how is the registry brittle? Usually, when we talk about technologies that are "brittle", we are talking about things that are easy for the non-technie user to break. One of the main points of the registry was to have a binary format that most non-techie users would never even venture to touch... it seems that by this means of comparison, text-based config files is a much more "brittle" system. Especially if you don't have a perfectly configured distribution, and some of these config files are in the system directories, while others are in the user/app directories...
My BofA account was originally opened in Texas. Since then, I've accessed it all over Texas, and also in New York and Cali. When I was most recently in New York, just about a month ago, I had some ridiculous problems with my account - I was trying to get a new ATM card activated, and they had asked me to go into a branch for some reason, and when I got there (in NY), they had to call the Texas branch and do a lot of BS over the phone with them, because they literally had no access to my account from their terminals! They explained that this was due to the fact that in NY they were still on the "old Fleet system" - apparently, branches in NY used to be Fleet bank or something. They explained that the new, fully integrated BofA system was planned to be implemented in about a month's time, i.e. right about now. So I would say that up until very recently, NY (and I would assume New Jersey and much of the east coast as well) have been running on mostly separate systems.
On the other hand, I believe the Cali systems are fully integrated with Texas - when I was in Cali, it appeared that they had no problem accepting my normal deposit slip (as opposed to NY's "out-of-state" deposit slip), and didn't have any other issues quickly accessing and dealing with my account.
Somebody with the balls to be more than just another anti-MS drone, please mod parent up! I am really amazed at this thread - sometimes/. is way ahead of the curve, but here, with all these people going, "Wow, that's just what I always wanted!", it's like... "Welcome to the year 2003!"
Oh yeah, I forgot... M$ sucks and google really is going to keep "innovating" beyond the next 5 years!
Mono can be blown up at any time simply with a patch.
What does this even mean, and how can it be modded as "Insightful"?
Mono is an open-source (non-MS) virtual machine and class library that runs (independently of any MS software) on several operating systems. How could a patch "blow up" something if that something is not even running on the platform for which the patch has been made, or connecting to any software made by the manufacturer of said patch?
If you write an application for Mono, and then run it with Mono on a non-MS platform (i.e. Linux), using non-MS tools, then there is absolutely no way MS can "blow up" your app or Mono itself, short of hacking in to the open source release repository and inserting some malicious and un-checked changes, such that the next release of Mono has something broken.
Anyone who says MS could somehow "break" Mono clearly needs to do their homework before posting baseless comments.
I have a theory: Once at least 10% of the people touting the ASP.NET GUI actually use it, the reviews won't be so good.
Perhaps I could be a data point for verification of your theory. I've been using VS.NET for several years now for both web and windows projects. I believe you are very mistaken in your specific claims here, and also in your overall opinion that this tool does demos well, but not production development.
When you switch from the HTML view to CODE view (or vice-versa):
1) You lose undo history.
Could you give a specific example? I just tried setting some properties using the property page for a few controls, and then used undo to undo the properties i set, and then used redo to redo them. I didn't seem to encounter any problems.
2) The entire HTML is reformatted.
- Much CSS is thrown out, units are changed
Are you referring to the rendering of your css in the design-mode view? Or are you saying that changing styles in the property pages for a control actually changes your css file somehow? In visual studio there is a nifty CSS file editor, and if you do css the right way (as an included style sheet file), you have full control, so I don't really see how it could be "thrown out"...
- Good HTML changes to IE-specific HTML
Care to give any examples? I have worked on a number of browser compatible sites - yes there is much of the same double-checking work involved as when using notepad, but I certainly haven't experienced the problem you are describing. Many of the sites I've worked on required a fairly decent level of cross-browser compatibility, and working within the Designer has not presented major problems for me in achieving that, once I knew what I was doing.
3) If any tags are not closed, the IDE deletes everything following the tag then closes it. This causes lots of problems when combined with #1.
Could you give a more specific example? I just tried this with an unclosed B tag, for example, and the IDE simply auto-completed with a/B tag at the very end. The IDE certainly did not delete any of my code after the tag, and I had some client-side html and some server-side controls.
Some of these issues can be fixed, but the propery page paradigm is intrinsic to Microsoft products.
First, perhaps your experience with VS.NET was with the original version, not 2003? I don't particularly remember what's changed, but perhaps all of the things you are describing really did exist back with the original VS.NET... They certainly don't seem to be the case with the 2003 version that I've been using for the last year or so.
Second, I think you are somewhat mistaken about the purpose of the property page - it is not meant to be the *only* place to edit all of the attributes of controls on the page - that is why VS.NET makes it so easy to switch back and forth between html and design view, without losing any manual formatting. Typically when I am working on a page, I find myself switching back and forth rather constantly, both because I find certain tasks more productive in the code editor and other tasks more productive in the designer, and also because in the end I am very anal about my html formatting.
I'm sure that experienced ASP.NET developers can come up with a decent list of actual current problems with development in VS.NET and the new paradigm that it introduces, but I don't really believe you've hit the nail on the head here.
actually, i'm guessing it's a reference to martin lawrence in the movie blue streak. and i think the point of the original joke is that it's not even spanish.
Isn't formal "le" (usted) also correct, and probably actually more appropriate in this case? I'm not a native spanish speaker, so not sure... also, talking mexican spanish here, not spanish spanish or whatever - perhaps in those regions some kind of vosotros rule applies for formalities...
i.e....
"El hermano mayor le está mirando a usted!"
"En Rusia soviética, el microchip le programa a USTED!"
Every time you try to switch someone and they don't switch, they've chosen IE.
Very well put.
It would be interesting to see the browser breakdown of people reading this particular page, because clearly we would have evidence of a certain number of people who have been harrassed to switch, and yet have chosen to stay with IE. So much for the "nobody chooses IE" argument.
Slashdot Mirror
well said...
MOD PARENT UP!
There was recently a multi-part series about Rome on BBC - but I'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with the HBO series. It seemed to be focused on things like what girls in Rome had to do to be popular and to earn enough money to eat (i.e. basically prostitution). I saw a bit of one or two of the episodes, and the quality of the show was certainly nothing like a proper HBO-quality series - I haven't seen the HBO one yet, but I'm sure they are two different things.
This should be obvious anyways, because UK channels are always about 2-3 years behind HBO (and most other US channels/shows) in reruns - i.e. I think we are still getting some Sex and the City episodes for the first time here.
And most people who make comments like that are still writing things like obj.get_Name() to represent a getter property of an object... or worse yet, obj->get_Name()... and have no idea that there is a whole new brave, beatiful, elegant world outside of their sphere of awareness.
Spend some time and get to know new technologies before disparaging them - you may learn that there are newer innovations beyond what was invented decades ago.
Generally I agree with you, but just want to point something out - it sounds like you are saying that somehow apps written in Java are not vulnerable to SQL injection attacks. Clearly that's not true. Or am I missing something?
So what did Microsoft accomplish?
For starters, they recuperated part of the cost incurred when they had to spend their own time to deal with this issue, in terms of development and support effort on Hotmail. I doubt they recuperated all of their losses there - maybe not more than a token amount really.
Isn't that what you would do if you ran a free public e-mail service that was getting slammed by someone overloading it with spam illegally?
How can I have my application built cheaply and well?
Out-source it to Bangalore!
*ducks*
1. Some of us who work on OSS projects don't do it for the philosophical reasons that you do. We do it because we enjoy technical challenges in many forms, and also because there are some types of software that are developed in OSS that would never be developed well professionally. Or maybe sometimes we just do it for the free (as in beer) reasons.
/. might want so badly to believe - it is just a job.
2. The policies of the company we work at do not necessarily represent our own personal character. Microsoft in particular is a huge company, with many employees who are there for many reasons. Not all MS employees are enthusiasts of monopolist policies, just as not all Americans support the War in Iraq. Going there to get a job is not selling your soul to the devil, as many here on
I think you are referring to corporate policy here - i.e. what MS and/or it's partners choose to use. There are plenty of corporations out there, based on MS and also on other technology, that choose not to use OSS for a variety of reasons.
My point was more about this individual (the one being interviewed here) and his personal ability to be involved in OSS. This particular comment, and the title itself ("stranger in a strange land") seems to imply that working for MS and being personally involved in OSS are two mutually exclusive things. In reality, there are many people who do both concurrently.
In fact, you may be interested in doing a quick search around the web for a number of OSS projects that are led by MS employees. At least one of these is in fact even officially supported by MS.
You might not realize this, but there is actually Open-Source Software outside of Linux. Some of us who work with Microsoft technology regularly also deal with open source projects. Or do you think people who go to work at MS sign some kind of agreement that they cannot concurrently be involved in any kind of OSS development?
Actually, I think IE has already been doing something like that for some time now. I don't know the exact details of how it works, but it definitely does partial refreshes of only specific areas of the screen in some cases. I think it may actually have something to do with optimization when IE is communicating with IIS, but I could be wrong...
Since when is an unencrypted signal entering your private space ... not yours to use?
Not that I disagree with your point at all, but just to point out:
Clearly you don't live in the UK, where you have to pay a tax for watching "public" TV (via antenna). Not that everyone actually pays it, but technically they are supposed to...
Exactly - who modded this Funny?? Is there some some inside joke that we're not getting?
Personally, I think this response is a shame, because it is fairly informative, but totally misses the point - that IIS is light years ahead of Apache in terms of being easy to configure, and most who are knowledgeable on both systems here seem to agree with that.
The IIS management UI is really not that sophisticated or special - it is just simple and straight-forward. I don't understand why no one in the OOS community has gone to the trouble of reproducing something closer to that for Apache. Or better - it's not like the IIS console is actually a "great" UI - it is just good enough to get the job done, but certainly there are many areas for improvement.
C for general purpose.
Perl for string hacking.
sh for shell tasks.
I think you left out...
C#/Java for solving real business problems in an efficient and professional manner.
I mean, are you serious? Either you are wasting your time messing around all day with linker errors, or you are writing unstructured spaghetti code for dealing with strings... I can't decide which is worse!
Just so you don't get off clean thinking he was wrong and you were right, I agree with the other poster - you are definitely a dinosaur. I mean, not even a C++ evolving quatro-ped, but just barely up from the COBAL aomebas and other single-celled organisms!
"Lepriee"???
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Am I the only one who kept thinking that while reading aloud to myself Professor Hiroshi Ishiguro's comment:
"Lepriee Q1 can interact with people. It can respond to people touching it. It's very satisfying, although we obviously have a long way to go yet."
But seriously, I was uder the impression 'L's and 'R's were generally difficult for native Japaneese speakers to distinguish - so how did they end up with a Japanese-built robot with this name? Does it actually have an entirely different name in Japan?
Why is it that any time someone mentions a Linux technology that is more than 6 months old, everyone screams that you can't use that as a valid basis of comparison because you have to look at the newest Linux stuff, when it is perfectly valid to use a several-generations-old technology as the key point in an anti-MS argument?
In any case, how is the registry brittle? Usually, when we talk about technologies that are "brittle", we are talking about things that are easy for the non-technie user to break. One of the main points of the registry was to have a binary format that most non-techie users would never even venture to touch... it seems that by this means of comparison, text-based config files is a much more "brittle" system. Especially if you don't have a perfectly configured distribution, and some of these config files are in the system directories, while others are in the user/app directories...
I can verify that claim.
My BofA account was originally opened in Texas. Since then, I've accessed it all over Texas, and also in New York and Cali. When I was most recently in New York, just about a month ago, I had some ridiculous problems with my account - I was trying to get a new ATM card activated, and they had asked me to go into a branch for some reason, and when I got there (in NY), they had to call the Texas branch and do a lot of BS over the phone with them, because they literally had no access to my account from their terminals! They explained that this was due to the fact that in NY they were still on the "old Fleet system" - apparently, branches in NY used to be Fleet bank or something. They explained that the new, fully integrated BofA system was planned to be implemented in about a month's time, i.e. right about now. So I would say that up until very recently, NY (and I would assume New Jersey and much of the east coast as well) have been running on mostly separate systems.
On the other hand, I believe the Cali systems are fully integrated with Texas - when I was in Cali, it appeared that they had no problem accepting my normal deposit slip (as opposed to NY's "out-of-state" deposit slip), and didn't have any other issues quickly accessing and dealing with my account.
Try moving to one of the countries in Europe that still has intermissions for almost all films - for example, Italy!
Somebody with the balls to be more than just another anti-MS drone, please mod parent up! I am really amazed at this thread - sometimes /. is way ahead of the curve, but here, with all these people going, "Wow, that's just what I always wanted!", it's like... "Welcome to the year 2003!"
Oh yeah, I forgot... M$ sucks and google really is going to keep "innovating" beyond the next 5 years!
Mono can be blown up at any time simply with a patch.
What does this even mean, and how can it be modded as "Insightful"?
Mono is an open-source (non-MS) virtual machine and class library that runs (independently of any MS software) on several operating systems. How could a patch "blow up" something if that something is not even running on the platform for which the patch has been made, or connecting to any software made by the manufacturer of said patch?
If you write an application for Mono, and then run it with Mono on a non-MS platform (i.e. Linux), using non-MS tools, then there is absolutely no way MS can "blow up" your app or Mono itself, short of hacking in to the open source release repository and inserting some malicious and un-checked changes, such that the next release of Mono has something broken.
Anyone who says MS could somehow "break" Mono clearly needs to do their homework before posting baseless comments.
I can garantee you that for most Windows applications I can find at least one Open Source application to match it in terms of usability.
Excel with VBA macros?
I have a theory: Once at least 10% of the people touting the ASP.NET GUI actually use it, the reviews won't be so good.
/B tag at the very end. The IDE certainly did not delete any of my code after the tag, and I had some client-side html and some server-side controls.
Perhaps I could be a data point for verification of your theory. I've been using VS.NET for several years now for both web and windows projects. I believe you are very mistaken in your specific claims here, and also in your overall opinion that this tool does demos well, but not production development.
When you switch from the HTML view to CODE view (or vice-versa): 1) You lose undo history.
Could you give a specific example? I just tried setting some properties using the property page for a few controls, and then used undo to undo the properties i set, and then used redo to redo them. I didn't seem to encounter any problems.
2) The entire HTML is reformatted. - Much CSS is thrown out, units are changed
Are you referring to the rendering of your css in the design-mode view? Or are you saying that changing styles in the property pages for a control actually changes your css file somehow? In visual studio there is a nifty CSS file editor, and if you do css the right way (as an included style sheet file), you have full control, so I don't really see how it could be "thrown out"...
- Good HTML changes to IE-specific HTML
Care to give any examples? I have worked on a number of browser compatible sites - yes there is much of the same double-checking work involved as when using notepad, but I certainly haven't experienced the problem you are describing. Many of the sites I've worked on required a fairly decent level of cross-browser compatibility, and working within the Designer has not presented major problems for me in achieving that, once I knew what I was doing.
3) If any tags are not closed, the IDE deletes everything following the tag then closes it. This causes lots of problems when combined with #1.
Could you give a more specific example? I just tried this with an unclosed B tag, for example, and the IDE simply auto-completed with a
Some of these issues can be fixed, but the propery page paradigm is intrinsic to Microsoft products.
First, perhaps your experience with VS.NET was with the original version, not 2003? I don't particularly remember what's changed, but perhaps all of the things you are describing really did exist back with the original VS.NET... They certainly don't seem to be the case with the 2003 version that I've been using for the last year or so.
Second, I think you are somewhat mistaken about the purpose of the property page - it is not meant to be the *only* place to edit all of the attributes of controls on the page - that is why VS.NET makes it so easy to switch back and forth between html and design view, without losing any manual formatting. Typically when I am working on a page, I find myself switching back and forth rather constantly, both because I find certain tasks more productive in the code editor and other tasks more productive in the designer, and also because in the end I am very anal about my html formatting.
I'm sure that experienced ASP.NET developers can come up with a decent list of actual current problems with development in VS.NET and the new paradigm that it introduces, but I don't really believe you've hit the nail on the head here.
You do realize that DB is only one of Oracle's products, right? They also have full-scale ERP and CRM solutions, for example.
actually, i'm guessing it's a reference to martin lawrence in the movie blue streak. and i think the point of the original joke is that it's not even spanish.
greetings grammar troll de español,
...
just curious...
Isn't formal "le" (usted) also correct, and probably actually more appropriate in this case? I'm not a native spanish speaker, so not sure... also, talking mexican spanish here, not spanish spanish or whatever - perhaps in those regions some kind of vosotros rule applies for formalities...
i.e.
"El hermano mayor le está mirando a usted!"
"En Rusia soviética, el microchip le programa a USTED!"
anyways, props to the grandparent - too funny.
Every time you try to switch someone and they don't switch, they've chosen IE.
Very well put.
It would be interesting to see the browser breakdown of people reading this particular page, because clearly we would have evidence of a certain number of people who have been harrassed to switch, and yet have chosen to stay with IE. So much for the "nobody chooses IE" argument.