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Australia's Great Linux-Based Satellite Network
yBshy4 writes "This article may interest the Slashdot folk. LinuxWorld Australia is reporting on Australia's largest satellite network, covering some 800,000 square kilometres, or most of the state of New South Wales, has gone live. The network consists of 75 Linux-based satellite routers that provide Wi-Fi (802.11b) connectivity to country towns that are unable to get DSL. The routers are engineered by Ursys and run Debian providing gateway services such as DNS and mail. According to the article, Ursys chose Debian 'because of its packaging support, which facilitates the ability to push updates to the routers remotely.' Ursys tried to use Windows but it was 'too unstable.' Hopefully this is an important step to providing better Internet access to regional areas across Australia. Anyone know of similar Internet access projects around the world?"
"$3500 per month for 1GB per month"
Now surely that's in Australian currency, but that still sounds expensive to me.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
Wake me up when Linux is running on the satellites
This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
"Ursys tried to use Windows but it was 'too unstable.'"
Good thing, that would have been one big ass Clippy to deal with.
Slashdot sucks
Yeep. Seems a little pricey to me.
For sure, outback australia has some real problems getting internet access. Everyone has moaned to Telstra for ages about this, so it's good to see soemthing get done about it.
Australia likes the idea of wireless.... or at least we don't want to have to look at masses of wires all over our skyline.
There was a broadband cable rollout some years back, and a lot of residents complained that the extra overhead cable would wreck their view and lower their houses values due to the nasty look of an extra cable floating above them. Several local councils petitioned to have the cables dug underground, but after a feasibility test was done, putting the cables underground was found to be too expensive.... so the phone company did nothing in those areas. Now the local governments that protested the cable roll-out are all stuck using dial-up modems.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I have heard of this also happening in parts of South America and, I think, Africa. But this leads to another question.
Is this sort of access going to be used in the US? I live in a rural area, and I cannot live on a farm and have DSL or cable. The only access I could use outside of town is DirectTV's access, which is very expensive. I even live in a populated area compared to Alaska, Wyoming, or Montana for example. Anyone know of a similar idea being done in the states? I for one would move and sign up.
As far as this being used in South America, I find it ironic they have wi-fi access but lack much more important technologies, such as better roads or medicine. Of course, the information and education provided by such access may lead to better conditions. This is a huge experiment in putting the cart before the horse.
What I learned from linuxworld.com.au: Windows Server offers a saving of 11%-22% over Linux in 4 out of 5 workload scenarios.
Yeah, you think they could choose their sponsors a bit more carefully.
As an IT consultant (and formerly an ISP guy) I am doing the end-customer support and installations for one of these POP's on the VIC/NSW border.
The Ursys guys run their own internal APT repository that all the BusiBox's update from (Yes, the BusiBox's are just normal rackmount PC's), allowing then to easy automate updates.
Their "web interface" is just a custom version of webmin.
I have no idea what the $3500/month for 1GB is about. I dont deal with the billing side at all.
But the service appears to work well. I am looking forward to see how much range we can get out here with the 802.11b gear, as ADSL is unlikely to come to most of these towns for many years.
"It's the smell! If there is such a thing." Agent Smith - The Matrix
If Teledesic had been able to get to launch, Bill Gates, Craig McCaw, and some Saudi dude would be able to provide broadband to the Earth, and thus owned a global backbone. Low-Earth Orbiting Satellites would have been nice except for completely confusing astronomers. Put Al Gore in there somewhere to make it official. Anyone actually know why Teledesic didn't get off the ground?
Here in the states, every telecom subscriber is required to pay into the Universal Access Fund, which provided subsidies for those living outside of an economically viable service area to receive POTS.
This seems like a perfect application of said UAF funds...,
roos can do the single-handed surfing thing.
Wonderful Bruce!
Free Firefox news reader.
If someone forgot to get the needed IP licences for Linux, the Australian data infrastructure will eventually be SCO's property.
Interesting to see Micro Softies advertising on the Linuxworld.com.au site.
By the way I hope that the $3500 is a misprint maybe $35.00 would be a little more reasonable?
I mean, if Oz is going Linux, it's not going to be cheap. Just think how much it'll cost to buy all those kangaroos extra-large pocket protectors.
I know of one group up and running with satellite/wireless in rural southern france! There is no info on their website as yet though. I also know of someone else setting up a satellite/wireless solution in rural Italian locations in the next few months.
http://www.cyberporte.com (French)
http://www.cyberporte.co.uk (English)
????What the hell is this?
I moved to Australia 2 months ago, and New South Wales is pretty much useless when it comes to internet, DSL is expensive as hell, and you probably end up with a 200MB download limit per month. If you are really lucky, pay lots of $$$ and signs up for 12 months, then you might get 1 GB per month.. thats about what Im used to downlading i one night on my ADSL line back home..
I know that in rural Iowa and similar locations in the US, enterprising communities set up multiple homes using 802.11b and antennae, so that farms that are even as much as 5 kilometers apart can share a single "broadband" (I hate that term) line.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
>>What I learned from linuxworld.com.au: Windows >>Server offers a saving of 11%-22% over Linux in 4 >>out of 5 workload scenarios.
>Yeah, you think they could choose their sponsors a >bit more carefully.
See as the article says that they tried Windows first but it wasn't stable enough so they switched to Linux, maybe it is Microsoft, who should be a bit more careful about choosing who to sponsor!
well i disagree yes the housing is costly if u want to live in the yuppy city burbs but what about Tasmania's 16K house's. A friend of mine with the first home owners grant bought a house in the wimerra for just 6K and he poket'd the rest though its only a hour drive to swan hill. I live top of VIC and i get cable (Not DS fucking L) and its about AUD 35.00 for 350mg dam steep when comparing to the US market
Jesus, who the hell modded that insightful!? Even my granny would recognise that for the troll it is!
And here I am, 15km (10miles or so) out from Brisbane City (in Queensland, Australia), and I can not get cable or adsl :( and i *really* dont want satelite
Will the solution mentioned in the article also work in an area with high mountains and deep valleys, where there's only a few small villages with a small number of inhabitants?
"Honey, I feel a certain distance between us..." "Really? A 31ms ping ain't that bad..."
.35c/MB seems to be Telstra's default cost for data. This figure includes both transport of the data, as well as providing the data; some satellite network providers will give much cheaper transfer rates but you need to somehow supply the data to their uplink for them, meaning you need to pay extra for an internet link. (assuming you want the remote sites to have internet access)
use linux wrappers n a decent card for your notebook. It doesnt matter how u access it wether its linux or windows as the client machine.
The company I work for, SSI Micro, has provided full-mesh frame relay and Internet services over satellite throughout northern Canada, well into the high arctic, since early 2000. We continue to expand the number of communities we service across the north all the time. The Outback almost sounds like a walk in the park by comparison - assuming you don't mind snakes. We also recently deployed a six site satellite network in Zambia to provide Internet services to an international development organisation there. Certainly each of these remote regions provide their own set of challenges.
In addition to dial-up, we have always used wireless technologies as a last mile solution. We used 802.11 for many years in those applications, and continue to do so. Currently we are also working with Inukshuk to roll out MCS wireless services, as mentioned in an earlier Slashdot story, and it is simply an amazing technology. The broadband picture keeps getting better and better up here all the time.
Satellite is definitely here to stay. It is going to be a long time before every nook and cranny of this world is wired, and frankly, I hope it never is.
I work for one of the most intelligent people I know. Jim built his wireless network up from the ground by ordering $5,000 radios, ripping them apart with screwdrivers and plyers, and really learning how to get the job done.
I don't get told a lot about our network, but we have a combination of 802.11b and g from my understanding, running across links of up to 13 miles.
For the controlling servers, my understanding is that we're running a mostly Linux layout, but that's speculation as I've currently got just a sales job signing up new customers.
We service a coverage aread of 100+ square miles, and short of lightning strikes, it's a pretty reliable service.
Just thought I'd promote one for the home team. =)
Can you ping me now? Gooood! | Manhappenin.Net - Things to do
Is it really as bad as all you people say it is?
.avi .mp3 .torrent
Sure 3.5k aus is a bit, but the internet has a whole lot more to offer than
In rural Australia there are many farms. With the internet automation of farming procedures could be achieved.Ie Feeding stations, gates, harvesting....
Surely this would lower the cost of farming and make it worthwile.
A company proposed an 802.11a wireless broadband network sharing a 2Mb leased line for our '6 village' area on the South Coast of the UK. We're not a million miles from civilisation (nearest big town is about 6 miles), but we're 'rural' and so our phone exchanges were not likely to be broadband enabled for a short while.
Monthly charges were about the same as POTS-based broadband, plus the client kit costs, but I felt that since there were quite a few small businesses in the area POTS broadband would happen eventually and so I stuck to my single channel ISDN.
At a kick-off meeting for the network, I raised concerns about the likelihood of POTS-based broadband coming to the area and diluting the wireless user base (it needed to maintain a certain number of subscribers to pay for the kit maintenance costs, power and also keep up the rental on the leased line), but was dismissed by those excited (IMHO) by the technology aspects of the system and perhaps the thrill of having a funny-shaped antenna on their roof!
Guess what, the company providing the infrastructure went bust before the roll-out was complete. I understand some of the kit may have been taken by creditors and so the system's now not intact and no buyer for the network installation could be found because many of those approached (about 10) realised that there was a local phone exchange likely to be broadband enabled 'sometime'. The final (post-going-bust) nail in the coffin was that broadband came to the area in December 2003 (2 months after the wireless provider went bust) via the local phone exchange.
The Australian solution looks like the right thing for the right demographics, the solution proposed in our area seemed to be pandering to the impatient and the technophiles, and not well thought out business-wise.
AT&ROFLMAO
For what its worth, http://www.latis.net.au uses around 200 linux based satellite routers to cover an area of some 1,349,130 sq km (520,902 sq miles) or so to provide internet services to primary and secondary schools across the Northern Territory in Australia...
For comparisons sake, the American state of Texas covers about 267,277 sq. miles (about 692,244 sq km)
Me too.
There you are, staring at me again.
..is that they "tried Windows".
Thats GOT to have been a management decision.
Good for the Aussies.
I wish at was Friday, but I dont want to wish my life away. So I wish it was last Friday.
im doing a similar project for a bunch of villages in the midlands, using only open source software on every bit of kit under my control and its worked out perfectly and onehelluvalot cheaper than certain other alternatives....
;)
Ive got a job in the south of france soon to provide satellite/wireless access to 15 villages which should provide quite a challenge, 15 downpoints and ~400 clients from each downpoint
Slashdot post review:
[*] mentions australia
[*] bashes windows
[*] praises linux
[*] mentions debian
[*] misleading headline (only the router runs linux)
[*] mentions wireless internet
[*] spell checked
Nice work, Tim!
...look to your right and get the facts.
The other day, there was a report on a german tv channel about a project in a rural area in {holland, scandinavia?}. Some people took some standard parts from the local DIY-store as antennas and extended the range to some kilometers. They have alreay built a working network in their area using this technology. May be someone has seen the same report and remembers where it was located?
The ad I was served above the article saying "Windows was too unstable" is touting a lower TCO for Windows....
The side-ad is also displaying the same...
SIC...
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
A free and uncontrolled Internet could be very valuable under those conditions, and if the routers where hard to find, it could be a very powerful democratizing force.
So what happens when you have a hard drive failure in space? Or are they firmware? Pretty cool idea, that you can run a satellite off Linux...but hardware failures are still very real :)
Also, my understanding is they use the satellites to get the internet TO the locations, then give it to people via 802.1... not 802.1 coming from the satellites.. am I correct?
The Dutch company Aramiska does the same. They were in Linux User.
42 + 1 = 42
see NSW Net Costs document
Still not cheap but OK for remote rural areas that can't get ADSL. Note the Linux router suppliers make a good proportion of it ($1K pa).
Cheers
VikingBrad
We're doing something similar for our small town and a few other small towns here in Oklahoma but we're going the wireless mesh route. It's cheaper, easier to maintain, and isn't as confusing for the average user. It also allows for some pretty cool profit sharing opportunities for the subscribers. Even as remote as Austrailia can be, I have to wonder why they didn't use this route. IMHO, satellite seems like overkill for this. Anyone know why mesh wouldn't have worked there?
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
As noted in many other posts the current state of Broadband internet connections in Australia is a joke. I happen to live 4kms (~2miles) from the center of Canberra THE AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL CITY and cannot get ADSL - (due to distance from the exchange).
I could get an ISDN line from our beloved Tel$tra but would pay more for a 64k line than people up the road are paying for 512k unlimited DSL - and i would be locked into a 1 year contract.
Yet another reason to kick Johnny in the arse come the election at the end of this year. Vision? What is that?
THE SHOCKING TRUTH, SPOKEN BY THE TRUE PROPHET:
March 24th: SCO Seeks Licenses Down Under
March 24th: ... story on the delay at ZD Net Australia
March 26th: A Ready-Made MythTV Set-Top Box in Australia
March 26th: The judge in the case ruled that Griffiths, an Australian who had never set foot in the United States, had committed the alleged actions in Australia
March 29th: Australian Record Industry Has Best Year Ever
March 29th: In 2003 he won the Australian Unix and Open Systems' Australian Open Souce Award for his work ...
March 29th: The Australian reports a meeting between ICANN chief Twomey and Kofi Annan
And ... NOW - just when you thought it was SAFE; ..... the LATEST ENTRY:
March 31st: Australia's Great Linux-Based Satellite Network
Note:
1) The cunning CAMOFLOUGE of 'Australia' as 'Down Under' in the first invasion story !!
2) The insiduous DELAY of 3 days !!! before resuming the invasion with additional vigour today ... !!
3) BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID !!!!
4) HARKEN TO THE WORDS OF THE TRUE PROPHET! I WILL NOT BE HELD DOWN !!! THE THRUTH WILL BE HEARD !!!!!
Scottish Borders has a trial project rolling out now...
s ervices-to-business/broadband/broadband-news/borde rs-rural-broadband.htm and also here http://www.broadbandforscotland.co.uk/
u ppliers.as p?id=67
p pliers.as p?id=57
p pliers.as p?id=59
p liers.as p?id=58
There are 9 area's being activated in 3 clusters. 2 are live now and the last is coming shortly...
The idea is to provide an alternative for rural Scotland as BT ADSL triggers for these areas are huge... this is the trial project.
The project is a Scottish Enterprise initave with infomation here http://www.scottish-enterprise.com/sedotcom_home/
Thus Plc are providing the infrastructure and it works like BT ADSL i.e. ISP's signup and supply services using this infrastructure... so far 4 have signed up to supply service...
Abel Interent
http://www.broadbandforscotland.co.uk/s
Demon
http://www.broadbandforscotland.co.uk/su
edNET
http://www.broadbandforscotland.co.uk/su
Scotland OnLine
http://www.broadbandforscotland.co.uk/sup
For additional infomation, Demon & Scotland OnLine are owned by Thus. edNET and Abel are regional ISP's based in Edinburgh (the nearest city to the project area).