Simpsons Actors on Strike

ameoba writes "The next season of The Simpsons is in doubt as the voice talent is on strike due to a pay dispute. Fifteen seasons of some of the greatest prime-time TV around seems worth the money to me. ."

Comments

quote

[matt4077]

"In this production, we obey the laws of capitalism"

Re:quote

[bluelantern]

Let's think about this. Do they? They estimate that Simpsons merchandising and syndication value is 1 billion. They earned 30k per episode for the first ten years and 125k per episode for the last five. That's 660k(10)+2.75m(5)=13.875m+6.6m=20.475m per actor for the last 15 years. At 6 actors, that's around 120m FOX has paid out with these actors having helped generated a billion dollars in value. Say the animation costs and writing costs are double this, which they probably are not since animators and writers are paid relatively poorly, then the total cost of production is 360m for FOX with an asset worth 1 billion. Out of all the players in the production only the voice actors have any bargaining chips. All the other people are even more easily replaceable. The market value of their services is clearly more than they are getting paid, so they should fight for more.

This is not an issue of they already get paid enough. If they don't get paid the money, it doesn't stay in the consumer's pocket, it stays in FOX's pocket. FOX by refusing to pay is being just as greedy if not more than the voice-actors.

Re:quote

[matt4077]

well, but the 1 billion value is not what fox earned with the simpsons in the past, it's merely its current market value if they were gonna sell it to cnn.
The figure you want to calculate with is (TOTAL REVENUE OF ADVERTISING + 1 BILLION) - (TOTAL COSTS OF PRODUCTION + VALUE OF AIRTIME).

Re:quote

[Golias]

Boo fucking hoo.

How much did the writers, the real geniuses behind all 15 years of laughs, get paid over that same 15 years. Apart from Matt Groening himself, I bet it was a hell of a lot less than $20 Million dollars each.

The core cast of the Simpsons are just homely-looking actors who were capable of doing funny voices. They are a remarkably talented voice cast, but that's all they are. They don't even ever appear on camera.

Did you know that, for large chucks of The Muppet Show and the associated movies, Kermit was actually being voiced by Jim Henson's understudy? If nobody could tell the difference then, what makes you think these people are so damned impossible to replace? Watch season 1 again and then watch a new episode. The Simpsons already sound different from how they originally sounded, especially Marge and Homer, even without changing cast members.

They signed the contracts they signed. Work at the rate you signed for, or leave. It pisses me off when millionaire entertainers and athletes say they are going on "strike." News flash guys: You are not exploited steel workers. You are pampered millionaires. Get over yourselves.

Re:quote

[Wateshay]

Work at the rate you signed for, or leave.

They have worked at the rate they signed for. Now it's time to sign again, and they've decided they want more money. I don't want to see the Simpsons go off the air any more than you do, but they still have the right to negotiate for more money when it comes time to sign a new contract. It pisses me off when people that entertainers or athletes make so much money that they no longer have the right to bargain with their employers (who, in many cases, make a whole lot more money than the actor or athlete). Sometimes, entertainers or athletes who go on strike are being stupid, because they end up destroying their livelihood in the process of trying to get more money. In this case, though, I think the Simpsons voice actors see a show that may not last too much longer, and they're just trying to get what they can before it goes away (remember, for a lot of them, this may be the last significant job they ever have).

Re:quote

[God! Awful 2]

It pisses me off when people that entertainers or athletes make so much money that they no longer have the right to bargain with their employers

Well, it pisses me off when atheletes get together and decide that they deserve so much money that half the teams in the league will go bankrupt. Remember, this is collective bargaining, not pure capitalism.

Likewise, with the Simpsons. Not all the voice actors are worth the same amount of money, and any one of them could probably be replaced (how many people out there can do Simpsons impressions). But if they all hold out at the same time and ask for the same amount of money then the show is probably toast.

remember, for a lot of them, this may be the last significant job they ever have

Yeah right. No one's every going to hire Hank Azaria again. Poor, poor millionaires.

-a

Don't die

[chris-johnson]

It would really suck for the Simpsons to disappear, like so many other great cartoons (e.g., Family Guy & Futurama) because of Fox's short-sight

Re:Don't die

[zerv]

There may still be hope for the family guy.

Re:Don't die

[Omega1045]

Why do you say this? The Simpsons, season after season, is a top 20 show. Look at some of the other shows of this caliber, and see what their actors are making. Think about Friends. While that show is usually a top 5 show, I think the two are comparable for the money they make from first run, syndication, products, etc. The 6 friends stars make A LOT more money than the talented cast of the Simpsons.

As far as their market worth goes, I think that Fox can pay them what they are asking. It is still a fraction of what the stars of many other shows are getting.

Re:Don't die

[chimpo13]

No, it's Fox being greedy fucks. They lost Maggie Roswell who did Maude Flanders after paying her $6,000 an episode. She wanted a raise and Fox only offered her $150. Eventually she just tried to get Fox to pay her airfare from Denver (her town) to LA and Fox said get bent.

"I was part of the backbone of 'The Simpsons,' and I didn't think [the requested raise] was exorbitant," Roswell said. "I wasn't asking for what the other cast members make. I was just trying to recoup all the costs I had in travel. If they'd flown me in, I'd still be working."

I also blame Groening for being a greedy fuck and not sticking up for the voice actors. But that's mostly because of him suing Bunnyhop for having a cover of Binky, Groenings one-eared bunny from Life in Hell punching out the Trix Rabbit. It's nothing that the Simpsons don't do in every episode.

But I still watch the Simpsons.

Re:Don't die

[chimpo13]

The voice roll is why they're getting screwed. Fox is huge largely because of the Simpsons and this is the 17th year it has been on. Fox makes so much money off that show and the voice talent deserves fair pay. On Friends it was a million an episode, and I don't think the Friends crew ever wrote for the episode. The Simpsons uses lots of stuff from the voice actors.

Re:Don't die

[MurphyZero]

Like other folks have stated, FOX is the one making out like a bandit more so than the actors. Early on, the Simpsons voice talent could have been replaced easily. Now even if the replacement sounds the same, it's bad publicity in a beloved series that's towards the end of its lifetime. Sure FOX may save money, but it would also reduce its value quite a bit. And it could also reduce its syndication value. FOX is better off negotiating with the actors.

Re:Don't die

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of saying the Simpsons characters are underpaid compared to Friends, you could probably more accurately say the Friends characters are grossly overpaid.

Re:Don't die

[Omega1045]

While I understand the argument, I don't buy into the idea that you could replace the cast of the Simpsons. I think I would be able to tell the difference. I think of old Bugs Bunny cartoons that were done by Mel Blanc, and newer ones done after he died. I can tell the difference even with some of the talented people they have had doing the voices recently, like Joe Alaskey.

Also, there is something to be said for chemistry. The current cast sure seem to work very well together. I would hate to break that up.

In the end, I think the actors will get some sort of raise since everyone else involved is making more money than god on the show. They can afford to give the actors a bigger share of the pie.

Re:Don't die

[Quino]

I do think that the Simpsons is one of the greatest TV shows of our times -- and I do think the actors are worth every penny.

However, I was just wondering: how much of that 1 billion is from the US and how much from the rest of the world? Because the voices are dubbed in the rest of the world (at least, certainly in the non-English speaking countries), and a change of actors in the US would have zero impact in those places -- unlike the impact of changing the actors in Friends, which would be obvious even to TV viewers in Italy, watching dubbed episodes.

I'd say that the amount of money FOX is risking is certainly much less than the whole 1 billion bucks.

could the fans help

[isbhod]

seeing how fans have help to save Family Guy, even pitched in money to save FarScape (if even for only episode) and even FireFly, might it be possible to "pass the hat around" to give these people who have entertained us so much a little something back?

Re:could the fans help

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? They make how much. That's right they make MILLIONS a year.

How much does an avarage person make, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THAT. Why the hell do you want to reward the greed of some washed up voice actors (Let's face it Simpsons ain't what they used to be).

Man, I'd rather feed the poor and hungry or something, but that's just me.

Re:could the fans help

[Hamhock]

Please tell me that this is supposed to be funny. These guys make more in a half hour (6-8 hours of real work according to one of the articles) then I do 2 1/2 years. Not to mention the residuals they get from syndication, which I'm sure add up to a pretty penny. I think $125,000 an episode is plenty back.

Re:could the fans help

[SweetpeaAeryn]

Fan campaigns work. www.watchfarscape.com is evidence of that. We have a 4 hour mini-series of Farscape on the way, and our show was already completely cancelled when we got it. If Simpsons fans want to save the show from cancellation, I believe they can.

Re:could the fans help

[ScottGant]

So what you're saying is, that even though Fox is making even more millions a year from just advertisements, not to mention syndication and DVD's, marketing of merchandise that the actors that do the voices (many doing multiple voices) should just be making what the average person makes? Sure, that seems fair.

I was going to ask you how much money you donate of your income to feed the poor and hungry...but since you decided to hide behind an Anonymous Coward post, I couldn't.

Re:could the fans help

[Flammon]

I think $125,000 an episode is plenty back.

You're comparing the amount of money that you make to the amount that the actors make. That doesn't make any sense. Instead, compare what the actors make to the amount the show makes and you'll begin to see who the greedy ones really are.

Re:could the fans help

[tsg]

You know, the RIAA uses this same argument to justify paying the musicians squat. It's the studio's job to evaluate the risk and worth of a new series. If they're bad at it, then they should lose money. But don't punish the actors of a sucessful series because your other shows, which they had no involvement with or control over, were crap.

The failure of your other projects in no way lessens the value of the project I'm working on.

That being said, I have no idea what the voice talent of the Simpson's is worth, not being in the business myself. I just want it resolved. Personally, I think it would be funny if, next season, everybody aged 15 years over night.

A thought.

[Liselle]

I wish I had their problems, only earning enough money to buy a small house every time I did a voice-over for a single episode. This strikes me in the same way that it did when I heard about the lead in The Sopranos grousing for more money, too. I understand about wanting a fair share of the pie, but where does it cross over into greed?

Dan Castellaneta is the voice of Homer but he is clearly no mug. Along with his five colleagues he believes the $125,000 he earns for each 30-minute episode does not reflect the true value of the characters.
The six core cast members are now demanding $360,000 (194,000) an episode or $8 million (4.3 million) for a 22-episode season, according to insiders.

*gag*

Re:A thought.

[(eternal_software)]

And keep in mind, they did this previously. Back in 1998, they thought that $30,000 an episode wasn't enough, so they got raised to $125,000 PER EPISODE.

Apparently, that isn't enough money to get by on these days.

Re:A thought.

[Mr2cents]

he believes the $125,000 he earns for each 30-minute episode does not reflect the true value of the characters.

it only represents the true value of the voice?

Re:A thought.

[czion3]

You forget how much money The Simpsons takes in. The Simpsons is the show that put Fox on the map. The biggest reason why the show is a sucsess is because of the dialog. I DO think the actors are worth 360,000 to Fox.

Re:A thought.

[GoofyBoy]

>I understand about wanting a fair share of the pie, but where does it cross over into greed?

Is it greed because its a large absolute dollar value or becuase its a large dollar value compaired to what the producers/network make from the Simpsons?

Why is it greedy to ask for more money? Just because they can ask or just because someone says "Thats enough for you"?

Re:A thought.

[superdude72]

I wish I had their problems, only earning enough money to buy a small house every time I did a voice-over for a single episode.

Why don't you ask Rupert Murdoch how much he makes from the Simpsons for every hour of work he puts into it?

The show has earned over $1 billion for Fox. It will continue to run in syndication for god knows how long, earning billions more. The voice actors are simply exercising their market power, just as Fox does or WalMart does. I wish more workers were in as good a negotiating position.

Re:A thought.

[JordanH]

• The biggest reason why the show is a sucsess is because of the dialog.

I would think the writers have a lot to do with how good the dialog is. I wonder what they get paid.

On the other hand, it's probably easier to find clever writers than it is to replace voice talent and not upset viewers (or should I say listeners?) by the change.

I also wonder what Matt Groening makes per episode. Does he do any of the writing?

Re:A thought.

[Liselle]

Is it greed because its a large absolute dollar value or becuase its a large dollar value compaired to what the producers/network make from the Simpsons?

That's a fair question. But if the writers of the Simpsons all went on strike (and let's face it, the writing is the heart and soul a comedy like the Simpsons), you can replace writers. You can't get rid of the voice actors without killing a part of your show. I can't shake the feeling that these people are getting paid a lot solely because they are associated directly with the characters, not because voice talent is hard to come by.

It's not greedy to ask more money if you deserve it. My question, which you answered with four more questions, was whether they deserved the piece of the pie they demanded, or whether they were just using the celebrity of the characters they played to blackmail Fox (note: this is not to suggest Fox is not evil).

Re:A thought.

[MalachiConstant]

I understand about wanting a fair share of the pie, but where does it cross over into greed?

This is how I felt about sports celebrities and movie actors until I thought about it. They still may be greedy bastards, but maybe not.

The increase would raise each actor's pay to $US8 million a series. The actors work an average of six to seven hours each episode. However, the cartoon is thought to be worth $US1 billion to its owner, Rupert Murdoch's 20th Century Fox.

So the cartoon is worth $1 Billion and the actors want $48 Million a season, that's about 21% of the "worth" of the cartoon. That leaves 79% for the writing, production, profit, and all the other costs.

I don't know if they're asking too much, but they don't sound so much like jerks when you see how much the executives at Fox are making off their talent.

Re:A thought.

[Richard_at_work]

Your maths are kind of slightly off:

• USD 1 billion == USD 1000 million
• Cast pay request == USD 8 Million season == USD 48 Million
• Percentage of pay to worth == ( 100/1000 ) * 48 = 4.8%

Now to me, for a USD Billion value TV show, spending 4.8% on the actors doesnt seem excessive. How much would the show be valued at without these actors?

Re:A thought.

[sir_cello]

It's not really greed though: the series is so successful that it makes a lot of money: if the money doesn't go back to the actors, then where does it go - to the producers/owners ? Even though the figures are extremely high, it's fair that the actors get their fair cut rather than the money going into the fat pockets of execs. Let the actors use that money to do something else: they may pursue some beneficial creative activity as a result.

Re:A thought.

[jjafuller]

Unfortunately, issues like this are what lead to reality television. The simple fact is that writers, actors, and in this case voice actors are pricing themselves out of the business. Sometimes it seems like a big deal to give out the $1 million dollar bounty at the end of reality TV shows, but that is really chump change. The voice actors are currently making $2.75 million per season. That is $2.75 million for talking into a microphone. Is that honestly justified in itself? Now, if they get their raise that would kick them up to $7.92 million per season. To put this in perspective, the president earns a $400,000 annual salary, with a $50,000 expense account, so effectively $450,000. If you figure the difference between the president's annual salary, and the price of one voice over for the Simpsons, it comes out to $90,000. So, apparently, running the great nation of the United States for a year is only 125% of the difficulty of doing a voice over for one episode of the Simpsons. Think about that. Furthermore, in all likelihood the money actually exists and it is more than likely going into the pockets of network executives. I am in no way stating that this is a great state of affairs either. My point here is the misappropriation of funds in corporate television. I would much rather see the $5.17 million go into better programming. The networks need to take more risks; in the past shows had more than a few episodes to pull in the ratings, they might not have even been any good in the first season, but they were still renewed and allowed to grow. It seems like now, if you do not bring in the big numbers immediately you are cut and usually not even allowed to finish out your first season. Thus, as the actors want more money--and the executives want to keep their pockets well lined--we are stuck in our current state of affairs with such horrors as Survivor, and whatever other reality TV is still floating around. This is just one example of the disturbing trend in the growth of corporate power in the United States. It seems that in the past we have thrived with a powerful consumer driven society, where business tried to please the consumer, and decisions made by the consumers had an impact. Well, that is not longer the case. Now corporations are developing into monopolies, and have entirely too much impact on the government. Thus, if a corporate group does not like the policies of consumers, they will change the laws in their favors to punish consumers for undesirable behavior. In the past business would adjust to the consumers' desires. The disturbing trend appears to stem from the stagnation of our government, and the efficiency of the corporation. If we continue on our current course we will soon abolish government, and be run by corporations in a truly hellish world. In conclusion, I believe that the Simpsons going on strike is a sign of the end of times, so repent, rinse, and repeat.

Re:A thought.

[Snowspinner]

Actually, American Idol is their premiere network show. 24 also beats The Simpsons in the ratings, as does The OC and That 70s Show. My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance also beat The Simpsons.

Re:A thought.

[espo812]

You can't get rid of the voice actors without killing a part of your show. [...] It's not greedy to ask more money if you deserve it.

If the supply of an acceptable voice is only 1 and the demand is infinate the cost of that voice is going to be very high. Essentially, it's a monopoly (which you call blackmail) for the voices.

Fox has options: they can pay what the voice actors want (which will lower profits, but keep the show at the same quality and retain viewers) or not pay what the voice actors want and either lose actors or find out the voice actors were bluffing (if no one defects there's no loss for Fox, if some defect the show becomes lower quality and they could lose viewers, if everyone defects they could have no show and have 0 viewers). It's a buisness decision - do they make more money with no show or by paying actors the demanded wages?

Re:A thought.

[plasm4]

How can you define what deserve means, its totally subjective. And its also totally irrelevant I suppose. People rarely get what they deserve. You get what you can take. Lets use a hypothetical office as an example. Lets say you make 40k programming. (The "you" is hypothetical as well) All your coworkers make 48k doing the exact same thing in the same office. All of you were hired at the same time. The difference is that while all of your coworkers were offered 40k, just like you, they asked for more money and you did not. Bill Gates put himself into a situation where the world depends on him and now he is in a position to squeeze. Good for him.

What if all the voice actors used the extra money to build schools and hospitals in underdeveloped countries? Are they still greedy then? What if they just want to make sure their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren will not have to work? What if they want to make sure that all of their descendants will have complete freedom to choose what they want to do with their lives, without any pressure of having to scratch out a living. What is greedy about that?

Re:A thought.

[Uruk]

The amount of money it takes to get by is irrelevant. These voice actors are essentially partners in a business venture with Fox. Their increasing demands shouldn't be framed as "I need this much money to get by". It's more like this - when actors of any type ask for increases like this, it reflects the fact that they know Fox is making more money than ever on the show, and they'd like to share in the growing wealth that the show produces. I wouldn't be suprised if they modeled what they were asking on based off of a percentage of total revenues from the show.

To say that these guys shouldn't ask for a raise is like saying that they're simply paid help. They're not. They're the life of the show. If fox manages to shoot the golden goose and refuse their demands, the show will go on with new voice actors, but the show will likely be a shadow of itself.

These actors aren't stupid. They aren't going to ask for a salary that they know would cause Fox to lose money, since if they did so, Fox would be guaranteed to reject their offer. Looks to me like the simpson's overall take has increased, and te actors are just requesting their fair share. I don't see any problem with that.

New talent?

[aidanjpadden]

OK, there are loads of people out there who can do good impressions of the Simpsons' characters and they threatened to use these last time - is it finally time they'll get rid of everyone and get new talent in there?

I wish I could get this much cash for an hours work but being a male gigolo doesn't pay this well ;)

Re:New talent?

[AGTiny]

Oh my god I can't even begin to imagine how painful something like that would be to watch. Better to just kill the show than replace all the voice talent.

Re:New talent?

[whopis]

Maude Flanders and Edna Krabappel are (were) performed by different actresses. Marcia Wallace does the voice of Edna.

They each want $330,000 per episode

[Trespass]

That's just ridiculous. I'm surprised they don't just get replacements for a fraction of that. I don't know how much longer the Simpsons will keep creaking along, but this seems like a pretty stupid time to go on strike.

Re:They each want $330,000 per episode

[gl4ss]

maybe it doesn't matter to them?

you see, when they've already had enough money to be 'set for life', maybe they don't really want to do it anyways. when in that kind of position they can play hardball without the risk of being exactly poor for the rest of their lives.

besides, the money made from simpsons goes somewhere as well..

ob Homer quote

[GillBates0]

Homer: Lisa, if you don't like your job you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers.

ObSimpsons quote

[Gildor]

Burns: Smithers, get me some strike breakers. The kind they had in the thirties.

(Smithers brings in Grampa Simpson)

Abe: We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. (grumbles of acknolwedgement from the strike breakers) One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them! "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now, where was I? Oh yes. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. We didn't have white onions, because of The War. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

actually...

[nomadic]

More like 12 great seasons. After seeing the recent episodes I really don't care too much if the show ends.

Re:actually...

[ArmyOfFun]

I agree. I used to be a die hard Simpsons fan. I was so die hard that when I slowly stopped watching new episodes, I actually felt guilty. Like I was giving up on an old friend. But now, I just don't care, the show has lost almost all of the subtle humor that made it great (in my eyes).

I'm sorry but...

[alman]

Just give them the Do'h

Simpson's are worth it.

[pholower]

A lot of folks on the ole /. seem to think replacements and less money is okay. I would usually tend to agree. But the simple fact that there are so many people that know the simpsons and so many people that can hear the voice of the characters in their head when somebody says a famous line, to me, is all the more reason to pay these guys more.

I think a lot of us forget that the simpson's, in many other's opinions is what saved fox. They are the reason Fox is still on today.

Has the show gotten worse? No! It has only got better and wittier with time. They deserve every penny of the raise they are asking for.

Re:Simpson's are worth it.

[pholower]

I agree with you on that, however, if the writer is good, they can land a job at another production. Voice actors are usually only good for one production. After that it is retirement. if you were one of the voice actors on the simpsons wouldn't you want as much money as you could get before the show went off air and you had to live off that money for the rest of your life?

Re:Simpson's are worth it.

[Hatta]

Are you kidding me? The show today is a travesty of the comic genius it once was. Remember when Homer had a soul? When he was a man with emotions one could identify with, if only in caricature. Today he's as shallow as any contestant on reality tv. He exists only to engage in wacky antics and spout catch phrases.

I will be glad to see the simpsons off the air. Each new episode only serves to dilute the show's legacy as the finest work of comic art of the 20th century.

Re:Simpson's are worth it.

[I Be Hatin']

Voice actors are usually only good for one production. After that it is retirement.

What the fuck are you talking about? Don't you realize that the main stars have had long careers already ?

Dough!

[brejc8]

Five different British news papers with reporters all over the world all starying the story with "Dough!".

Strike yes, over pay no

[fr0dicus]

They should strike to bring back futurama!

*8D~

The Actors

[cablepokerface]

Cast overview, first billed only:
Dan Castellaneta .... Homer Simpson/Grampa/Barney Gumble/Krusty the Klown/Groundskeeper Willie/Mayor Quimby/Hans Moleman/Sideshow Mel/Others (voice)
Julie Kavner .... Marge Simpson/Patty Selma Bouvier/Others (voice)
Nancy Cartwright .... Bart Simpson/Nelson Muntz/Todd Flanders/Ralph Wiggum/Kearney/Others (voice)
Yeardley Smith .... Lisa Simpson (voice)
Hank Azaria .... Moe Szyslak/Chief Wiggum/Apu/Comic Book Guy/Cletus/Prof. Frink/Others (voice)
Harry Shearer .... Montgomery Burns/Waylon Smithers/Ned Flanders/Kent Brockman/Rev. Lovejoy/Principal Skinner/Dr. Hibbert/Rainer Wolfcastle/Others (voice)
Marcia Wallace .... Edna Krabappel (1990-) (voice)
Phil Hartman .... Lionel Hutz/Troy McClure (1991-1998) (voice)
Tress MacNeille .... Jimbo Jones/Agnes Skinner/Others (voice)
Pamela Hayden .... Milhouse Van Houten/Rod Flanders/Others (voice)
Maggie Roswell .... Maude Flanders/Helen Lovejoy/Others (1990-1999, 2002-) (voice)
Russi Taylor .... Martin Prince/Others (1990-) (voice)
Doris Grau .... Lunchlady Doris (1989-1996) (voice)
Karl Wiedergott .... Additional Voices (1998-) (voice)
Marcia Mitzman Gaven .... Maude Flanders/Helen Lovejoy/Others (1999-2002) (voice)

Replace the Writers

[OS24Ever]

They need to replace the writers. This season as been pretty lackluster. I think it's jumped the shark at this point. Pretty disappointing. I've found myself shutting it off midway through most episodes this season which is sad really.

I don't know if it was just the ads but the recent one for the re-run of Marge writing the romance novel had homer's bare ass fuzzed out. Hope that's not a boobie-gate reaction

Strikes and High Paid individuals...

[mschiller]

It never ceases to amaze me that we allow people who are paid millions to collectively strike. I mean come on your being paid for 1 day of work (ok maybe it even takes a month to prepare, but still) more then I get paid in a year... Maybe us high tech workers should start unionizing.. Oh wait, if that happened in our industry they'd probably just fire us and get new people or just go out of business. I've never figured out why out society is willing to pay huge amounts of money on entertainment. Sports stars, actors, etc. I mean are pro baseball games that much better then your local college or high school game? But those criminals (well some of them anyway), get paid millions and who pays for it? The average Joe and his family end up paying $300 to see the game (ok it can be done cheaper but think of the cost of those beers and hot dogs)... One of my pet peeves... There goes my Karma

Re:Strikes and High Paid individuals...

[alphaseven]

But those criminals (well some of them anyway), get paid millions and who pays for it? The average Joe and his family end up paying $300 to see the game

Ticket prices are high because that's what the market will bear. If players made less you'd think they'd lower prices? Hell no, the owners would just pocket the extra profits.

Unpublished letter from Fox

[JoeBaldwin]

Dear Actors,

FUCK OFF. We can find cheaper people who'll do the job half-assed for less money. What do you think this is, India? Nobody keeps their jobs here!

Once again, fuck off.

Your good friend and former employer
Rupert Murdoch

Well...

[rijrunner]

Face it, for these actors, this is it. None of them are break-out stars. None have any real expectation of much of a career after this.

Most actors are in a position of having one shot at making enough to live off of for the rest of their lives. There isn't any pension plan for most of them from their acting work.

They don't get a large cut of the spin-off merchandizing as their images are not being used. And, it's hard to say what their cut is on the syndication, which is where the money is for the Simpsons.

How many people out there would sit back in a situation where they have 10 years, or so, to make every penny they need to live on for the rest of their lives and then work at a base scale? Wouldn't most people try to maximize it? Face it, we're talking about Fox here. It isn't like any show is assurred renewal. Fox is raking more money off the canned shows with no new expenditure than on new shows and it's just a matter of time before the Simpson's gets axed for "Who Wants to Marry and American Idol Millionare on Temptation Island".

In terms of greed, I put them a lot further down any list than a lot of people I knew in San Jose in 1997. And, these guys actually are producing something of value.

Re:Well...

[W1BMW]

"Face it, for these actors, this is it. None of them are break-out stars. None have any real expectation of much of a career after this."

Are you serious? Take a look up a few comments to the IMDB links for any of these actors or go search it yourself. While they may not be Tom Cruise or Catherine Zeta Jones's, none of these people are sitting around idle. Hank Azaria & Harry Shearer have done quite well for themselves either writing, producing, or working as character actors, and Dan Castellenta & Nancy Cartwright have been (and still are) prolific voiceover talents. Hell, even Lunch Lady Doris has been working in the industry since the mid 60's.

I'm all for them getting a bigger piece of the pie, but don't try to tell us that 'this is it' for these guys.

I'll wager they can expect much more of a career after this than most /. readers. :)

Re:Well...

[godzillion]

How many people out there would sit back in a situation where they have 10 years, or so, to make every penny they need to live on for the rest of their lives and then work at a base scale?

Sounds a lot like software engineering, except that limited show lifetimes are replaced by high programmer burnout rate. Good thing it's never too late to change one's occupation.

Re:Well...

[Snowspinner]

Lunch Lady Doris's recent appearances, however, have been rather curtailed by her death in 1996. =/

If they killed Maude Flanders for $1500...

[holden caufield]

Remember the last time there was a dispute over voice talend money? Maude Flanders paid dearly for it.

http://www.snpp.com/other/articles/actordisputes .h tml

And that was over plane tickets...who knows what Fox might do now?

Must we always take the company line?Re:A thought.

[sharper56]

Ad Age says "The Simpsons" in 2003 earns FOX $296,440 per 30-sec ad or typical show will make Fox $3.5M (12 commerical slots 4 network slots). For the year that puts FOX at $77M. Forking over $48M to the voice talent may be a high percentage but FOX is still making a killing on it.

Note: This back-of-the-napkin estimate doesn't include the gravitas that "The Simpsons" gives the network to slot the rest of it's Sunday lineup. Each of the follows shows should really be kicking 50% of their ads back to "The Simpsons" 'cause the lead-in is so huge.

Unprofitable?

[phpm0nkey]

Troy McClure: Yes, the Simpsons have come a long way since an old drunk made humans out of his rabbit characters to pay off his gambling debts. Who knows what adventures they'll have between now and the time the show becomes unprofitable?

Forty-eight million dollars a season, for six voice actors? Give me a break. Their entire work-week is driving to a studio, and talking for three hours on a Saturday afternoon. Given the quality of today's episodes, $360,000 each is just unreasonable.

It's time for FOX to take a chance, and let another cartoon step up to the coveted 8PM Sunday night timeslot. My vote would be for Family Guy. They shafted it last time by moving it to a bad timeslot, and now, with The X-Files gone and The Simpsons waning, FOX's prime real estate is opening up again.

Currently, the 22 new episodes in production are set to run only on Adult Swim. If Family Guy DVD sales are any indication, this is a poor move for FOX. I think their viewers are ready for the kind of edgy, creative humor that The Simpsons just hasn't provided in years.

Re:Unprofitable?

[Feanturi]

Fox should take a lesson from the X-Files on this one. While I liked all 7 seasons, there was something missing when they tried to replace Duchovny's Fox Mulder. I'm glad they didn't go on to an eighth season.

To me, the 'something' missing when Mulder left WAS the X-Files. No Mulder, no X-Files. Had there been an 8th season, I wouldn't have watched that either.

Re:Unprofitable?

[Herkum01]

It's time for FOX to take a chance,

THATS RIGHT! It is about time that Fox take a chance and finally announces a new hit series, "When [_____] Attack!"

[ ] Bears
[ ] Wild Animals
[ ] Criminals
[ ] Police
[ ] Naked Women
[ ] Politicians
[ ] Tonya Harding

It will good to finally get some quality television again!

They should let the show die...

[Hogwash McFly]

Let's face it, The Simpsons is not what it used to be and I can not see it going anywhere but down in the future. You just can't keep thinking up episode ideas forever. Groening should let the show die on a mid-high note, I mean, it has had a pretty long innings after all.

What I would love to see is a present day alternative to The Simpsons - new town, new characters, new voice actors (that would be willing to work for a 'paltry' salary per episode) As an extra project for Groening, Futurama was/is abosultely great, it's a shame it was a bit too hardcore for the mainstream audience. A new animated show could feature a similar family or maybe focus around something else, like a group of work colleagues or room mates. Retain the trademark animation styles - yellow skin et al - and you have a clean slate to work with. Obviously, it might take a while for people to warm to it, but The Simpsons was not exactly a multi million dollar franchise overnight.

Any budding writers got any ideas for 'The Next Simpsons'?

Re:They should let the show die...

[EulerX07]

Let's face it, The Simpsons is not what it used to be and I can not see it going anywhere but down in the future. You just can't keep thinking up episode ideas forever.

Comments like these have been flying around for the last 10 years about the simpsons, and countless great episodes have been made since. Your problem is that you remember the good ones from the early seasons, and not the bad ones. So when you see an average one air you go : "It's not as funny as the first Sideshow Bob episode! Simpsons is dying".

Re:They should let the show die...

[squiggleslash]

In all honesty, just over three years ago I was watching every new episode, and enjoyed pretty much every one, and genuinely looked forward to every show. Then they must have switched producer or something because the shows since took on an entirely different tone and were just not funny. They were "crude" (not Family Guy crude, more Mad TV crude - every joke was bored and lifeless. The stories didn't hang together. Insightful observations were replaced with crude political stereotypes - what the hell happened to Lisa? She used to be a bright kid who happened to have humanistic beliefs as a result of her thoughtfulness, now she is just a mindless follower of "left wing" fads)

It's more obvious during the re-runs (Fox here shows them at 6pm) - if the episodes are recent, they suck. If they're not, they're generally pretty good.

It's jumped the shark. It has potential - SNL has made enough come-backs to prove it's possible, but they're going to have to get in some fresh talent - or get back some of the matured talent they've discarded on the way.

Re:They should let the show die...

[taco8982]

The problem with spin-offs is that many of the minor characters are voiced by the same people who are wanting the pay bump. For instance, Hank Azaria does the voices of Apu, Moe, Chief Wiggum, Carl, Comic Book Guy, Dr. Nick Riviera, Prof. Frink, Cletus and more.

And since I don't forsee the actors saying "oh, it's a new show, then I guess I should be content making less now," it'd be hard to create a solid authentic spin-off.

HA! (do one episode at least)

[rocketsled]

It would be hilarious to watch at least one episode with all the voice talent replaced with "distictive" character/voiceover actors all mis-cast into the classic roles.

I see it now Michael Dorn as Homer..

Not the smartest move...

[Channard]

Not just because Fox have cancelled series at the drop of a hat, either. They've also got enough Simpsons episodes to keep them in repeats for years. Sky One shows a new episode on average once every two months. Plus, they had no qualms about dealing with the woman who played Maude Simpsons after she made too many demands. Granted, it's unlikely they'd off the characters - The Flanders Show, anyone - but it shows they're not going to put up with nor do they need to put up with these tactics.

Audio editing, baby!

[FattMattP]

There's so much Simpson's vocals recorded that you could make the entire new season just by editing the appropriate vocal parts of the other seasons together. An experienced and talented editor can make it unnoticable.

Re:more money

[ljavelin]

You gotta remember that the life of an actor (and especially voice talent) is a little different than a corporate job.

In a corporate job, you usually have a position that lasts for many years - even decades. When work dries up, you can move to another corporate job. You receive benefits - health case, pension, etc.

In the world of acting, the job is a lot more, um, chaotic. You can go without work for many years, and the years where you do work, you might make very little - certainly not enough to live on without taking a job as a waiter or something.

If and when you do make it big, that can last from 2 months to a couple years tops. If you're super lucky, you might get a gig that pays well for 10 years - but that's very very rare.

During those good times, you have to make enough to cover all the bad times. Plus, stuff like pensions and insurance is often something you have to cover yourself.

Are they earning a lot of money? Yep. But they SHOULD be able to ask for more money. This is America, not the Middle East.

Timeline?

[dancingmad]

"The next season of The Simpsons is in doubt as the voice talent is on strike due to a pay dispute. Fifteen seasons of some of the greatest prime-time TV around seems worth the money to me. ."

Don't you mean 6 and a half seasons of the greatest prime-time TV around?

Or as we lovingly refer to it, the Pax Simpsona.

Perspective

[igrp]

You make a good point.

$125k does sound like a pretty sweet deal, even if you take into consideration that it takes about two weeks to dub an episode (and that's not even considering the time to read the script, practice, etc.).

However, if you really look at this from a different perspective, it's not really that much money, after all.
Each one of the Friend's cast makes $1 million an episode (one season consists of 22-24 eps). On top of that, they retain certain marketing rights, are allowed to do ads and have been signed for a full-time motion picture.

Now, NBC is actually loosing money. That's right - despite the fact that they've been desperately trying to get the cast to do yet another season (twice), been willing to go out of their way (rescheduled shootings, final season is shorter than usual) and that it's their #1 show, they're loosing money. And, this works out for NBC in the end because Friends can be endlessly rerun in syndication (hence, allowing NBC to recoup their losses several times over) and people will still watch it.

I don't have any figures for The Simpsons but since it's been in Fox's prime-time lineup for years now I figure they're getting pretty good ratings. So, in comparision - with the Simpsons being a much-lower cost, yet still very profitable, show asking for a bigger share of the pie isn't all that outrageous, in my humble opinion.

napo...

[katanan]

nah...simpsons comes off as pretty lacking these days sad, i loved it around seasons 3-8 but alas, family guys and southpark have proven much more robust

Re:Must we always take the company line?Re:A thoug

[Jim Starx]

I think voice talent getting half of the profits is a bit unfair. There are writers, producers, artists, all of which deserve a piece of that pie in addition to the fact that fox needs to show signifigant profit for it to be worth promoting. Voice talent in a cartoon is signifigantly less of a contribution to the final product then say acting on a TV series. That's just based on your numbers though. Often the publically released numbers can be somewhat misleading as to the actuall size and direction of cashflow. I would have to see more numbers before I decided if I really thought this was unfair or not.

Re:"Open source" voices

[HimajinX]

Would it be just nice to find a repository of voice "donors" that would do the job for free?

I am a video game localizer for a company in Tokyo, and have often wished that something like this existed. When a game requires voiceover recording, the budget usually only allows for a few professional voice actors (professionals will charge up to $1000 for a few hours work). For this reason we often end up getting amateurs to perform smaller parts. Surprisingly, some of the amateurs do a better job than the professionals when it comes to capturing what the client wants. The reason? Because they're willing to be flexible and spend time getting everything right, unlike professionals who demand extra money for every second they run over their alloted time.

To drag this back into vaguely on-topic territory, I feel that the value some professionals put on their talent is often exaggerated, and when money becomes more important than doing a good job, something is lost.

I'm not saying the Simpsons voice actors are doing a bad job, but when I read about their money demands like this it takes something away from what makes the Simpsons special to me. I feel that the writers for the show are who make it what it is, so perhaps it is time the Simpsons moved out of Springfield, and the Sampsons moved in instead?

Now what I want to know is...

[kingrat]

...how much _profit_ does a popular show like this generate for a network? (not counting syndication or merchandising - just first run shows and repeats on the network) Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions? Or is it one of those "lets take a loss on this show, and make more moola off a less popular show"

Someone here mentioned that if all the actors were paid what they are asking for, its to the tune of ~$48 mil. Is that enough to hurt Fox or are they just tightwads?

Re:Must we always take the company line?Re:A thoug

[Dun Malg]

This back-of-the-napkin estimate doesn't include the gravitas that "The Simpsons" gives the network to slot the rest of it's Sunday lineup.

This calculation is also absurdly low because they show each episode more than just once. You can't just count the commercials run during the first airing of an episode. There are re-runs and endless syndication. They're making a hell of a lot more than $77M a year off the show.

Re:Scientology connection?

[roll_w.it]

Other than Nancy Cartwright - who else is a Scientologist?

Harry Shearer Interview Quote

[BlightThePower]

March 2004 (on working for Rupert Murdoch) in Empire Magazine:

"He's got people trying to out-Rupert him all the way down the line and their public disrespect for talent is pretty palpable. I mean, there was a Fox execuitve - name available on request - who said to The New Yorker 'We can get people off any high school campus in the country to do these voices'".

Seems like its been on the cards for some time.

Does anyone find it odd that

[gotr00t]

The linked article is to google news, and that the first link on there is to this article on /. ?

"Simpsons Actors on Strike
Slashdot - 1 hour ago
ameoba writes "The next season of The Simpsons is in doubt as the voice talent is on strike due to a pay dispute. Fifteen seasons ... "

Fox shits on good shows

[bangular]

I swear, Fox doesn't know good shows if they spanked 'em on their asses. Fox constantly pre-empts the Simpsons for all kinds of crap. It's gotten to the point where only about 1/2 of the time I turn to Fox on a Sunday night a 8 I'm actually going to see the Simpsons. Yet the midget wedding show was right on time; and all their other wedding crap shows right on time. If Fox doesn't want the simpsons, they should sell it. From the way they treat it, it would seem they don't want it.

Consider both sides

[mst76]

Many people have posted that the Simpsons made Fox gazillions per year, so it's only fair that they get a share of the pie. That the Simpsons essentially saved Fox and that they were (at least partially) responsible for that. But also consider that Fox and the Simpsons are what made them stars in the first place. If the other posters are right, they would have made at least $10M in the last five years. If they didn't make too many stupid decisions, they can retire anytime they like. Where would they have been without Fox and the Simpsons?

Re:Where else would the money go?

[DisKurzion]

Agreed. In fact, giving the voice actors more money will probably result in more charitable donations than giving it back to execs.

Voice actors deserve a large cut, because they MAKE the show happen. Writers can only do so much to make a hit show. You need good voice actors to give the scripts life. The same outlook can be applied to regular movies: you could have the greatest plot in the world, but if your actors suck, your movie will suck.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Friends comparision faulty?

[Ralconte]

Maybe we're missing something here. It has always been the case that voice actors are paid less then other actors. Except for non-speaking parts, or hand models, etc. I think this is enforced by the Screen Actors Guild. If Fox pays the Simpsons voice actors more, would they, and perhaps the entire industry, be forced to pay regular actors even more? Yeah, I'd rather watch a Simpsons rerun than a first run of Friends anyday. But I think factors beyond my interests have set pay scales.

Seems pretty funny

[Aexia]

looking at the responses.

Typically, readers will be complaining about how the members of the RIAA rarely pay its fair share to music artists.

How is this any different than if they were an enourmously succesful rock band? If band members wanted more than just a small percentage of what their publisher was making, would slashdotters tell them to "Get over it!" and "Get used to it!"

Re:Seems pretty funny

[Golias]

How is this any different than if they were an enourmously succesful rock band?

The difference is that most of the top rock acts are the actual creators of the work. In the case of the Simpsons cast, we are talking about people who stand in a sound-proof room and read scripts. The real creators are the writers. I say, get the best writers you can find, and give the millions to them.

Old Alfred was right, actors are cattle.

I don't watch "The Simpsons" for the magnificent voice acting of Nancy Cartwright. She's just some chick who could sound like a young boy who was available cheap when "The Tracy Ullman Show" was looking for somebody cheap to voice their interstitial cartoons.

After all, the best voice actor on the whole show has been dead for several years now. (Rest in peace, Phil. Rest in peace.)

Re:Seems pretty funny

[TaoJones]

Old Alfred was right, actors are cattle.

To clarify a frequent misquote (in his own words no less):

"I didn't say actors are cattle. What I said was, actors should be treated like cattle."
Alfred Hitchcock

More Cocky quotes. In a way it's a shame Cocky will be remembered as a cinematographical genius in the horror genre, and not as a comedic smartass who made scary movies.

Twain, Dahl, Hitchcock, Bierce - what is serious and what is farce?

Talk about...

BaDaBoom boom

Talk about...

Appy-polly-loggies to M on that one :)

Voice actors have lives too

[jesterzog]

I can't shake the feeling that these people are getting paid a lot solely because they are associated directly with the characters, not because voice talent is hard to come by.

Part of me is inclined to agree, but then the other part of me realises that they've been doing this for more than 15 years. It's quite possibly a lot more of a tedious chore than it is interesting.

They've identified a figure for which they'll be satisfied to put up with the job in future times, no matter how boring or frustrating it gets. The alternative is that Fox may decide it's too much --- the show will end, and the voice actors can go and spend their time doing something that they find much more interesting. It's quite possible that they may be more than happy to go and do another show for much less, simply because it's different.

I suppose that just because the show is popular doesn't mean that the voice actors should be required to do it forever at a wage set by the studio. The raise is what they're claiming will be needed in order to keep them satisfied to continue doing it... perhaps they won't get it and they will no longer work on the show, but I'm sure they won't mind.

Have you gotten a raise?

[Skrape]

People attend college to get a degree, to get a better job, to make more money, etc. The point is that people are paid for what they are WORTH ... or should be at any rate.

If I made my company billions, I would probably feel justified in asking for a raise.

I would also like to quote an instructor of mine, "If you were offered $20 million, would you only take $1 million? People always want more. Thats why Bill Gates is still active with Microsoft. He will never want for anything due to a lack of money but he still wants more."

This is not to say that Bill Gates is a bad person (I will refrain from any opinions about Microsoft, good or bad) but only that he is a person. Just like the actors that do the voices of the Simpsons characters I grew up watching. I do not have that kind of money at my disposal so there is a certain amount of disgust in the thought that an amount of money that large is not enough for any person ... but who am I to judge, I would probably want more too.