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Apple Extended Keyboard Lives Again
An anonymous reader writes "For all of you that have wanted a firm keyboard (like in the old days with mechanical keyswitches) Matias has released the tactilepro keyboard. This keyboard uses the same mechanical keyswitches used in the Apple Extended Keyboard. Alps was going to scrap the keyswitches, so he had to commit to buy 1 million of them. Here's a great review by Adam Engst." It looks absolutely great, and it's only $100 (though apparently backordered until late April).
FIRST POST!?!!? I really enjoyed these keyboards... But are they really worth that much money? Think of all the ramen noodles I could buy...
Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)
You can use these with a PC as well. If you've got a KVM to switch between PC and Mac, now's the time to finally use a Mac keyboard instead of a PC one. :)
It seems like a great value, and has a feature I actually wrote with pen on my old one (the special characters) Although its cheaper to get a ADB adapter, I think I would purchase one of these before then. But I'm broke.
And I do feel like I type faster on that keyboard, but that might be poor memory.
oh... and ep!
...
Using my keyboard about 2000 hours per year, I've come to realize the difference between a really good one and a really cheap one. I used a PFU Happy Hacking mini keyboard for 5 years with no problems until it finally started to give out last year. I tried some cheaper brands when I switched from Linux to OS X since PFU didn't make a board with USB plugs. I noticed a couple months ago that there are now mac-compatible Happy Hacking keyboards with extra USB plugs, so I got one immediately. No regrets. This one reviewed here is beautiful.
From the photos, this looks just like an Apple Pro Keyboard without the Apple symbol on the COMMAND keys.
How am I supposed to make a buying decision?
If the difference is in the engineering, perhaps they need to show some examples of this premium key switch versus some others. I need a way of understanding what the heck is so great about this keyboard.
I would most easy part with my money if they produced a "dust free" keyboard. Don't look too closely!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
While the tactilepro is a very cool keyboard. This story is a little late, I'm looking at an ad for one in my old December 2003 Macworld. Nevertheless, Matias deserves support, the one downside to the Mac is you can't go pick up and old keyboard at flee market that the seller doesn't know the value of. As soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy one. Although by that time I may need to buy a ergonomic keyboard. This Kensington Keybord-in-a-box is killing me.
Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
Kensington has been selling a $90 keyboard like this for about a year now called the Studioboard -- in fact, it looks identical to the tactilepro keyboard, save that Kensington doesn't put the option and shift-option symbols on the keys. (I'm not sure whether the information value of that truly outweighs the clutter, but I know that's awfully subjective.)
I don't know whether Kensington uses the Alps switches, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of these keyboards are actually OEMed by the same company. It looks like Matias has just done a much better job of promotion than Kensington did. I've had one of the Studioboards for nearly six months now (I bought it when I bought my G5, a purchase in a moment of weakness at the Panther release party--10% off! Now it's only overpriced! Shiny!) and it's been great so far.
If they'd found a way to provide the same feel as the AEK but with little noise, I might've thought it worth it to buy it. As it is, I value quiet more than feel, since I don't have any issues with my APK. Still, if I find one in existence to demo, maybe I'd give it a try. Those old keyboards were pretty sweet.
My other favorite was a natural style PC Concepts keyboard with the built in touchpad. I'd love to have one just like that again only with all the fancy extra buttons you see on keyboards now. I refuse to buy a Microsoft one since they can't even adhere to standards in a simple keyboard layout and the 6 is on the wrong side. I just can't get used to that. Hell, I don't feel like I should *have* to get used to it anyway!
"I can be self-referential if I want to," said Tom, swiftly.
So, you're saying it's reasonable to spend $20 more for a standard keyboard than you'd spend for a Logitech cordless Duo keyboard and one of the best mice out there just because it's for a Mac?
Seems a bit unreasonable.
$100? I'd rather stick with my IBM Model M (the old clicky clacky keyboard) which only cost me $20 at a junk store. Now if there was only a way to get an Apple Key on it!
I'm sorry, but I guess I just don't get it. What is special about this keyboard?
Life is offtopic.
The post just below this one says the thing is overpriced, but I'm the troll and they're modded up? Exactly why I have no intention of changing my views for pointless karma.
Not to take anything away from the Matias keyboard, but the current Apple keyboard is entirely satisfactory. Besides having a decent feel (the keys have a nice detent that provides tactile feedback), it's easy to clean on the top, and doesn't collect hair or other debris below its circuit board. Costs about half what the Matias keyboard costs, as well. No, you can't adjust the tilt as you could with the Extended Keyboard and the Extended Keyboard II, but I never used that facility anyway.
On one hand, having used every Mac keyboard dating back to that of the original Mac 128k, I feel I should know. But on the other hand, having endured six years of some of the worst Apple keyboard designs ever (beginning with the original iMac), perhaps anything is an improvement.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
There is another option for an excellent keyboard with the Alt/Command keys in the right place for a Mac user: a Sun keyboard.
= SunStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&boxid=%2523320-1271
I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:
http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process
or apparently here for $40.
You can even use the extra keys on Linux.
Here's a picture.
It looks cool and all and I'd love to have the extra USB ports, but i've been using my AEK II w/ an iMate ADB->USB adapter for 3+ years now and I'm too cheap to spend $100 on a new keyboard esp. w/o being able to test it first. Besides, I think my AEK II may last forever anyway.
I saw these keyboards on sale at Dr. Bott a long time ago and honestly the cost threw me for a loop. $100 is way too much for any keyboard, even a bluetooth one, which this is not.
This may be a very nice keyboard, but to me, it can't be $100 worth of nice. I'm personally eyeing an iceKey to replace my pro keyboard. The only reason I haven't bought one is that $50 seems a bit much for a keyboard.
Saying "only" $100 doesn't make any sense, it's the most expensive keyboard I've ever encountered.
How do these Alps keyswitches differ from the buckling leaf spring ones that you can get on, say, the models from PCKeyboard.com?
:(
Regardless, if I had a Mac I'd buy one of those suckers in a second. I desperately miss the old clickety-clack of the Keyboards of Ancient Past.
"Max, come over here. French-Canadian bean soup. I want to pay. Let them leave me alone." - Dutch Schultz
Even though I'm a PC user, this article makes me look down at my old-ish Toshiba keyboard and wonder.
Does anybody know of a company that makes really high quality Dvorak keyboards?
Looking at this story makes me realise that I need a new keyboard, but I'm using a PC -- are there any PC keyboards "built like a tank" that I could pick up brand new too?
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
There was also a behemoth of a keyboard called "Apple Extended Keyboard"...
I believe that one had an internal codename of Nimitz, as in aircraft carrier.
I think I've still got one or two in a closet (with F-Key template overlay!), if anybody really needs one. I've also still got a few of the original square ADB mice in there scratching at the walls.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Assuming all the letter keys are the same shape, that'd do it.
I have one of these keyboards -- the feel is awesome and it lets me type VERY quickly with few errors. The only downside is the noise. I sometimes have to mute audio iChat while typing because the clackity-clack makes conversation impossible.
I had a problem with the keyboard about a month after the purchase -- it had a "5" and an "a" key that would sometimes double-up or not fire. Like Adam says in his review, this isn't uncommon at the beginning of the product's life. And the customer service at Matias didn't ask any questions and provided an RMA quickly.
In fact, using the Apple Pro keyboard while it's out for an exchange, is really hard now. It feels INCREDIBLY soft.
So, in spite of some problem keys, I highly recommend this product.
And to those cheap bastards who are saying: "$100 WTF?" -- ask yourself these questions: "How much time in a year do you spend at this keyboard? Is it worth a quarter a day to have a nice input device?" A comfy chair and keyboard are essential to my work environment.
-ch
they could make the keys partly translucent and add a backlight...
I use to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
figure out a way to get the keyboards they use on their TiBooks into a desktop style keyboard. After getting used to typing on this keyboards I can't stand using any other keyboard.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Could I get this and have it work on my PC? Having the two extra USB plugs, as well as the 'wet' look of the keyboard would be sweet! I'm serious! I want one for my PC! Is it 'Plug and Play' compatible?
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
The lack of mechanical switches has always been my complaint against the keyboards you can find now. And, maybe someone can help me out here, but weren't the Extended keyboards renowned for being built like a tank -- i.e., you couldn't break them if you tried?
I like the Apple Pro keyboard, but I loved the Extended keyboard. Nice to see that it's got a USB hub in it, too. Now if only I had $100 to buy one... Sigh...
If it's not one thing it's your mother.
Hmm. I actually prefer the opposite, like a laptop keyboard....
:)
Very short keytravel, and very quiet with keys close together so my fingers don't need to move very far...
I am just odd though...
It's one reason I like my Apple Pro keyboards as they feel more like a laptop keyboard than the ones that I have at my PCs at work...
I have been using a MicroConnectors keyboard for a couple years, and I must say it's been very satisfying. The keys have great feel and action, they click nicely (pretty loudly for some), and it's laid out exactly like the AEK II, with power button and everything (that no longer works to power on Macs since the G5, but can still bring up the shut down dialog while the computer is running). They go for around $50 online, and come in different colors, though I believe some colors are discontinued, and pretty hard to find. Graphite color is still available, and looks fine. The only complaint I've had is that the power key is pretty flimsy, and it WILL break off after a while, though I never use it (leave my Mac on 24/7), so it's not an issue for me. The rest of the keys are sturdy, and this thing has taken a world of abuse over the years, and still works fine. I even had to get another one that's still in its wrapping, for the day when this one gives up the ghost. For a great feel that won't break the bank, MicroConnectors is definitely the best option available for us Mac users, and I've tried them all (you suck MacAlly!). Unfortunately, I haven't seen them in stores, so the only option is to get them online, without trying them first. Comparatively, the recent Apple ones are incredibly mushy, to the point of being a pain to use.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe, generated the same signals as button 1 and button 2 on joysticks and paddles. Control-OpenApple-Reset restarted the machine, Control-ClosedApple-Reset put it into self test mode. (Encountered a problem a user had where Control-Reset would always cause a reboot. Turned out to be a stuck button on the joystick.)
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs which used an ADB keyboard but with Control next to the A and Caps Lock small and below the Shift key. (Nowadays keyboards for computers are arranged more for typing than for programming; if it weren't for Windows, the Control may have gone away entirely by now.) The Reset key lost its label. Command and Option were still the same game I/O button signals. Forced reboot became Control-Command-Reset.
Macs came to call Reset the Power key, as pressing it would cause the computer to power up unlike the IIgs, but they still had the triangle symbol as the IIgs used. The restart sequence became known as Control-Command-Power. Eventually morphed into a power button with the c- symbol on its back. Then it vanished from the keyboard entirely.
What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
For someone who types all day for a living, $100 for a good keyboard that is comfortable to use and will last for several years is a bargain.
Do you ever hear about mechanics bitching that their Snap-On tools are too much money because they can get similar tools at Wal-Mart for a fraction the price?
All it needs to make it complete is an auto-sensing backlight to aid use in a dark room (something like the backlight on the new Powerbooks)...
I am still a fan of the venerable Saratoga Apple keyboard.
Unfortunately a muscle condition requires that I use an ergonomic keyboard (or suffer in pain). I really wish this company, or Apple, would make a good, inexpensive ergonomic keyboard.
I *really* *really* wish they would use that extra room in the 17" powerbook to put in an ergonomic keyboard... (I'll live with just the slant, and do without the tilt...)
-Robert
Goldtouch makes ergonomic keyboards that range from $160-$200. I've used them and love them, but I don't think I'm at home typing enough to justify a purchase like that. An Apple Pro Keyboard runs about $70, so I don't think $100 for a "better" keyboard (in some people's minds) is so bad. I'd like to try a demo model of the Matias keyboard at some point.
Control-Command-Power only worked on certain macs -- the older and newer models all have a physical reset switch somewhere on them.
Ah yes, the open- and closed-apple keys. Introduced on the Apple IIe
Ah! I'm shocked that people would forget that the apple keys were introduced on the Apple III. The IIe came later.
Morphed into Command and Option on the Apple IIgs
This is _sort_ of correct, but skims over some things.
The option key was introduced on the Apple Lisa (which had a closed apple key as well). The Macintosh then kept the option key, but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often (it was used in Lisa menus to denote shortcuts) the apple key became the command key, with its distinctive glyph (_and_ the apple glyph).
However, the Lisa and Macintosh keyboards both had closed apple symbols. It wasn't until the ADB keyboards came along that the apple changed to an open-apple. This was basically due the new industrial design that Apple adopted at the time, and which could be seen in the IIc, IIgs, Mac SE, and Mac II. So as you say, and IIRC, the IIgs was the first to have both an open apple and option key, but it was in no small part due to the fact that the open apple symbol looked better to Cupertino.
Of course, an annoying side effect was that the positions of the two apple keys on the IIgs were reversed. Since a lot of games expected them to be as they had been before (open closed, l to r) this was very annoying.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
So... does the caps lock key lock mechanically, the way the old Apple keyboards did? Or is it another one of those useless pieces of crap that just have an LED and nothing more to indicate what's going on with it.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
However, the Lisa and Macintosh keyboards both had closed apple symbols.
:)
The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.
Susan Kare was asked to pick an abstract symbol. She found a sweedish campground map symbol that's been in use ever since.
I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q".
(The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
The Macintosh keyboard had NO Apple symbol at all.
:)
I stand corrected, though I admit, I could've sworn that one had crept in there by the time the Mac Plus keyboard had shown up.
(The IIgs keyboard was never actually sold with Macs, was it? I remember it having a fairly unique design that matched the styling of the GS)
Well... at least by the time I was in the business of selling Macs, none of them but Performas and laptops came with any kind of keyboard. You had to seperately buy whichever sort you liked, which pissed off customers to no end, let me tell you. They weren't cheap at all.
However, the IIgs design was basically the same sort as used in the Mac SE and Mac II that appeared the next year. The IIgs keyboard doesn't really clash or anything. The main differences are 1) the shape of the keycaps, 2) the grooves in the space between keyboard and keypad, 3) the upper area of the keyboard above the number row, 4) the small frame around the keys, 5) the positions of the control and caps lock keys. These don't really stand out unless you know what you're looking for.
The IIc was somewhat more primative in design than the IIgs (not a value judgment; it was just an earlier step) but there's clearly a close connection.
I suggest the book AppleDesign for more on this.
I'm actually puzzled why Apple put the "Apple" on the later command keys, since the symbol is not used in any of their software to denote keyboard shortcuts. The purists among us bristle at references to "apple-q to quit". Bah! It's "command-q".
I'm more puzzled as to why they used the symbols they did for Shift, Option, and Control, when none of those were on (domestic) keyboards for a long time. Likewise, naming the button command does little when it's nowhere evident to users that that's what it's called.
I think that symbols _and_ localized names would've been better, for all metakeys.
Of course, I also love the Lisa keyboard pull out help cards, but then, I seem to be much fonder of sensible things than Apple is.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
No, but then again, how many people that type all day actually buy a keyboard for themselves, nevermind a high end one? Most do just fine with a stock keyboard.
If I weren't cheap, I'd buy both this keyboard and the iceKey and compare. However, considering my Pismo's keyboard (with scissor key design) is my favorite of all time, I think the iceKey is a worthy replacement for less than half the price of this keyboard.
You're comparison to the Snap-On tool situation is a little flawed. I think a more fitting one is Bose headphones. They may be great, but widely considered overpriced by most critics.
A word of warning about ps2->usb adaptors: every one I've tried has a bad habit of forgetting about modifier keys that are held down a few seconds with no other keypresses.
Which sounds like an obscure case, until you're scrolling back in your xterm with shift-pgup... go back a while, pause to read an interesting bit while still holding down shift... hit pgup again and find that you've just sent an unshifted pgup, dumping you back to the bottom of scrollback. Pretty bloody annoying, I found it.
(Fortunately, Kinesis now makes a usb version of their keyboard. Unfortunately, it has its whole own host of bugs. But it's a nice shiny silver!)
While I'm one of those bristly purists myself, I do find it pretty silly for Apple to have chosen to give this key two symbols, neither one of which is its name.
I think your comparison is flawed. Headphones are for fun, Snap-On are tools - a keyboard is a tool.
I really don't get how anyone having to professionally type can go around saying: "Ahh, the heck with good keyboards, I'll save myself 50 bucks!". Over keyboard lifetime, that's like a cent per hour!
I'm currently typing on a Dell keyboard. This is a membrane based one and has a similar feel to the Apple Design Keyboard I bought the AAK to replace. Sure it's cheap, but I doubt that I could type for as long on it without it causing me some problems with my hands.
As with most things in life, you get what you pay for. Unfortunately in the computer world the emphasis is generally in lowering the cost at the expense of the quality.
You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
Bah! They will always be "open-apple" and "closed-apple" to me! (Apple owner since //e.)
- Jasen.I stand corrected. I still haven't encountered a Lisa and only seen an Apple III in person but briefly.
//e and the IIgs, and likely on the //c+. I suspect they're present on the //c, and they may be available on models of the III. AppleWorks (the original) used them on-screen.
Another note: the Open Apple and Closed Apple glyphs also lived in the MouseText characters available on the enhanced Apple
The command / propeller / flower / swedish campground feature symbol AFAIK never made it into MouseText before MouseText ceased to be. (The IIgs replaced the two-character running-man symbol with two other characters, one of which is used for racing stripes for text-window title bars.)
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
but since Steve was concerned that the apple symbol was seen too often
Thinking about this from a trademark standpoint, this would make sense. Using the corporate logo as a command key makes every program seeking to display this key in menus getting branded with the Apple logo out of functional necessity, but could be misconstrued by the unwashed masses as an official endorsement of the software by Apple. Using something else eliminates such an implied endorsement. And not putting third-party applications underneath the Apple menu in Mac OS X today would be a logical extension of that.
Of course, that's assuming there was such logic behind the decision in the first place. Jobs had reportedly referred to it as, "taking the Apple logo in vain!" when he demanded a new symbol be chosen for Command.
Strange then that Microsoft has no problem with keyboards being branded with the Windows trademarked logo, and without an (R) or TM to boot! (At least on this Key Tronic(R) keyboard.)
Anyone sell replacement keycaps to turn Windows keys into Tux keys?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Unicomp
Headphones are a tool for musicians and people that run studios.
Snap-On tools can be a toy and fun for some people as well.
Are you even sure that this keyboard is that much better than a $50 one?
> What three-finger-salute does one use to force a reboot from the keyboard now?
According to this it's Control-Command-Eject. I've used that with Jaguar. It doesn't seem to work with Panther. But maybe my computer is foobar'd!
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
KeyCaps doesn't work correctly on my two Panther installations. It's a pity. I can't tell if the Internet pref pane works on Panther because I rely on the superior MisFox for that functionality.
Arne
If you like the feel of your laptop keyboard (I have a Alum Powerbook, not sure how this would compare to your TiBook) try the IceKey from Macally.
...is a built-in powered USB hub. So much of the USB stuff I have draws too much power to be plugged into the keyboard. If those extra ports were powered they'd be amazingly damned handy, instead of just being a tease.
IMHO, the ideal design would be like how Palm does their cradle-- the AC adapter plugs into the 'back of the computer' end of the cable instead of plugging into the cradle itself, so there's just a single cable running into it.
One of the bigger failures of modern keyboards, including the USB Apple keyboards, is the lack of any kind of decent Caps Lock indication. The current Apple keyboards have a green LED on the caps lock key itself. Which is sort of cool, except that if your left hand is actually on the keyboard, you can't tell if you've got Caps Lock engaged or not (my hands are opaque). IIRC, the Apple Extended Keyboard II (what made a II a II, anyway?), had a Caps Lock key that stuck down when activated. It definitely also had a light in the upper right corner of the keyboard, which is a lot more visible than the on-key LED they use now. It looks like the Matias keyboard has a similar cool-looking less-functional LED, too. Does anyone know if caps lock stays down? The caps lock - A key gap is also lacking according to the tidbits review, which is also disappointing.
I'm not a smorgasbord.
And us old-timers will still call it the "Apple" or even "open Apple" key. (At least I don't call my Option key "closed Apple".)
Constitutionally Correct
I personally use the Customizer 104 at home, and loved it so much I bought one and brought it in for work. They also have a keyboard optimized for Linux with the old-style Control, Caps Lock and others placed differently, and no pesky Windows keys.
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. - Anais Nin
After mailing Kensington and bluntly asking about the difference between their StudioBoard (http://www.kensington.com/html/2529.html) and the Matias Tactile Pro (http://halfkeyboard.com/tactilepro/index.php) their Technical Support reply was:
"The only difference would be in the maker of the keyboard. Our keyboard will use the Alps Keyswitches."
which was followed by:
"The product which you have been talking about [ed: the Matias board] is also Kensington's except that it is sold under different brand name."
Well, FWIW, there it is from a horse's mouth. Looks like Matias does some additional keycap printing and has a different return key done on the board made by Kensington. And does better marketing?
Cheers,
Jurgen.
Also a reply from Edgar Matias himself (em@halfkeyboard.com). On my question "in what way does your keyboard differ from the Kensington StudioBoard (apart from a different return-key and the (nice!) key caps prints)?", he replied: "Those are the main differences. It also has different electronics from the Kensington. The Kensington has a serious phantom key problem. Certain Shift+Option key combinations will not work on the Kensington." Well, there it is from the other horse's mouth. Anyways, all things considered, I've ordered the Tactile Pro from Matias. Support should always go to David, not Goliath. Cheers, Jurgen.