More SUSE Linux 9.1 Reviews

JoshuaTreeCA writes "Adam Doxtater of Mad Penguin has published another excellent review... this time on the newest SUSE Linux 9.1 beta-release. This release comes complete with the latest GNOME and KDE enviroments as well as being the first distro to present a retail package built on kernel 2.6.4 Check out the review, with screenshots." rokzy also wrote in with another review from NeoLink Computers.

Comments

Google Cache

[Whafro]

Here ya go

Re:Google Cache

[fm6]

But without those famous screenshots. Every time we get a link to MadPenguin, their system simply collapses under the Slashdotting. The editors really should keep a list of sites that do that and not accept stories on them.

wow...

[bach_m]

wow. 8 comments and its already slashdotted.... remind me not to use SuSe 9.1 as my server

Re:wow...

[bfg9000]

Don't be too hard on them, it looks like we've nearly Slashdotted the Google Cache as well. Now THAT'S scary. Give Slashdot a hundred thousand more users and the Dept of Homeland Security will have to shut us down for reasons of .. uh .. homeland ... security.

Re:wow...

[arkhan_jg]

Except mad penguin are only reviewing SuSE, not running their webserver on it :)

Re:wow...

[hendridm]

Don't be too hard on them, it looks like we've nearly Slashdotted the Google Cache as well. Now THAT'S scary.

Actually, I think Google mostly caches the content of the page. It still refers to the original source for a lot of images and other externally linked files. That could be why it feels like it's loading slowly.

Re:wow...

[AhBeeDoi]

wow. 8 comments and its already slashdotted.... remind me not to use SuSe 9.1 as my server

Are you sure it isn't the 286 box you're using?

SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

I just installed SuSE 9 and I must say I was very impressed... right up until the point that the mouse (which worked fine during install) didn't work on the second boot, then wouldn't work when KDE started. Had to start YaST to reconfigure it but had to reboot before it would work. THEN the mouse just stopped working after I clicked the apply button after choosing the icq2 icon scheme in gnomeicu.

I'm guessing USB mouse support still hasn't made it's way into Linux in a robust form yet?

This is pretty bad - so bad, in fact, that I'm now back in Windows XP because it, at least, knows how to understand what is now an old thing like USB mice!

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Anonymous Coward]

I just installed SuSE 9 and I must say I was very impressed... right up until the point that the mouse (which worked fine during install) didn't work on the second boot, then wouldn't work when KDE started.

This is a known bug in KDE. Try calling it a Kmouse instead of a mouse; that should fix your problem.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Plutor]

> I'm guessing USB mouse support still hasn't made it's way into Linux in a robust form yet?

I've been using my USB mouse totally flawlessly on my laptop for the better part of the year. I've grown out of distributions like SuSE and Redhat exactly because of your reaction. Selecting "USB mouse" doesn't work, must be Linux's crappy support!

I recognize that's what most people are looking for, I'm just saying, I hate the feeling of not knowing how something works on my computer, and worse yet is not knowing how something is broken on my computer.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[cdc179]

USB mouse support has worked great in GNU/Linux for a while now. This is just something on SuSe's side.

Make sure that your kernel has HID support.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[garglblaster]

Guess you're talking about SuSE 9.0 ..

no problem with usb mice here whatsover My USB mouse works like a charm on 9.0

However My SuSE 9.0 is an upgrade from 8.2 - so there might be differences on a fresh install of 9.0 - my personal exprience is thar 8.2 was _A_LOT_ more stable and better tested than 9.0

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the same problem with a Serial mouse. YaST updated my system and changed the mouse port in the X86config file. I'm glad it keeps a backup of it and I had others when installing the NVidia driver, so I manually edited the file, rebooted, and everybody was happy.

Check that file to make sure it's pointing to your correct mouse port.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[GlowStars]

I'm using my Logitech Optical USB mouse for years on various SuSE versions (8.x-9.0) without ANY problems. Go figure.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Phishcast]

I can second this. For the people saying "This is a beta", he's talking about SuSE 9, not 9.1. I had exactly the same problem. I ended up hand-editing XF86Config...which then broke again when YaST ran. I love SuSE, and use it every day, but this is definately a bug. If it's a bug with KDE, SuSE could recognize that and work around it.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[pantherace]

USB mouse support in linux has been as robust or more robust than Windows for quite a while. What usually is the problem is the distribution's config tools.

So have you bothered to file a bug report about it with SuSE? Or just decide to cluelessly bash Linux on /.?

Check /etc/X11/XF86Config for which device the mouse is using, and you have two options:
/dev/input/mice - ALL mice (USB, PS/2, busmouse) connected to the system. This is what most people will want. (With some kernels there is a delay before Xfree starts to get the input.)
/dev/input/mouseX (where X is a number starting at 0) - a specific mouse. Which may be what SuSE set up, and if so and it disconnected for any reason, the number would go up. (This is useful say when a trackpoint goes out on a laptop, to specify only the trackpad/external mouse, also the AllowMouseOpenFail option is a good option when using this)

With Windows, USB mouse support seems flaky. I haven't extensively used XP (seems not to support Compaq Presario 1700s well at all: blue screen city.), but 2000 certainly doesn't detect all mice when you plug them in. But then I suppose Windows USB mouse support is a WORKSFORYOU resolution if it were in bugzilla. :)

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

Um, how can my mouse be faulty when it works beautifully under XP and has done so since I plugged it into the USB port on that great day almost a year ago? Yeah, sure, my mouse must definitely be faulty...

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

Mine's a Logitec optical USB mouse, too.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, I'll admit I was going more for -1 flamebait than +5 informative but I don't think it's for either of us to question the wise and just moderators.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

9.0 doesn't exactly bear the hallmarks of a beta numbering scheme - at least, not to me!

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[dracvl]

Hilarious. Anything not starting with a K in KDE doesn't work?

Excuse me, I'm off to install my Klinux. </tongue-in-cheek>

(and yes, I use KDE myself)

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

I'll be sure to check that next time I boot SuSE up, however, I did see it successfully start a hotplugging something or other on boot up; one of the things on that line was USB.

To install SuSE 9.0 I trashed Fedora, which didn't have any problems with this particular mouse. The last time I recompiled a kernel it was a fiasco, so I don't think I'm going to try that approach again. I'm sure HID must be there if the USB mouse does work, but decides to lock up after a while.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

Forgive me, but it's been a while since I went renaming mice to suit my fancy. Just how do I rename it to "Kmouse"?

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mm0mm]

I've been using SuSE for a while (currently 8.2), and I've had similar problem with the last couple of edition of SuSE when I was installing it on laptops. By default YaST doesn't configure 2 mice (touch pad + usb) set up, and only SaX does. But the problem is when I configure mice using SaX, YaST will overwrite the mice config file after reboot. If you ever need to reconfigure mice setup, NEVER use sax.

I believe it did support dual mice during installation, but after the installation was finished, USB mouse was not working properly for some reasons.

anyway, I usually end up making changes in the config file(XF86Config) by text editor/vi so the mice will work properly. You just need to add one more input device in it. I love suse, but I have to admit configuring mice on SuSE can be a pain.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Starborn]

What the? "Score:5, Informative"??

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

Oh, I'm so sorry, it's all my fault. I should have known better than to give Linux a chance again. Apparently I'm supposed to know all that crap you ramble on about just to move my mouse?

And you say Windows' USB mouse support is flaky? Are you on drugs, perhaps? Just because XP doesn't support a Compaq Presario 1700 series mouse, you say it's flaky? My mouse is a Logitech Optical USB - which is a little more popular than the pucilanimous compaq mouse you've dug up to support your flaky argument.

I am a Windows user "because stuff just works", but I have fond memories of Debian in the 2.0 and 2.2 kernel days, and install the latest Linux every now and then to see if it's worth switching to yet. Every time, though, I'm usually disappointed with basic things like mice not working, which drives me back to Windows.

Bruce Perens and company are going to have to retract their wishes about Linux being destined for the world's desktops if everyone has to go frigging with those settings you mentioned.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[FyRE666]

It's not often I read an AC comment, but... Nice troll ;-) You wouldn't have gotten away with it on Apr 1st though...

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[richie2000]

That should be +5 Kinformative, Kmoderators! Ksheesh...

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

What? No editing config files, checking symlinks, or compiling HID support into one's kernel? This Windows XP thing might just catch on ;-)

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[mfearby]

I love Linux, too, and dream about the day when I don't have to fiddle with mindless minutiae like this. As much as I hate The Beast of Redmond, Windows XP's user experience is plain, simple, and straight forward. For starters, clicking Start, Settings, Control Panel, Mouse is a little more accessible than clicking KDE Button, System, YaST, Hardware, Mouse (from memory). "YaST" might make SuSE developers feel all gooey inside, but it's not what Joe User is going to go looking for.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[furballphat]

HAHAHAHA putting a K before the word. It's King Komedy!

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[FauxPasIII]

I always love it when somebody compares features in Windows XP to the way Linux behaved a decade ago. Get a clue, USB support in Linux has "just worked" for years. SuSE notwithstanding.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Welsh Dwarf]

I beg to differ, I've installed Mandrake 9.2 for a friend, and everything worked out of the box, usb printer etc included, so I think that this is just a Suse problem like other posters have already stated.

Also, the 'have to muck around with settings all over the place that aren't in GUIs' isn't a Linux only problem, try getting XP to go through a nated ADSL connection, with out changing the mtu in the registry, and tell me about how yahoo mail refuses to load. Every OS has it's corner cases, so don't bash Linux for them cause XP isn't better.

I'm a Linux user because 'stuff just works' my network card worked out of the box, without even mucking around with driver floppys, it configured how I like it without question, and with out saying one thing and doing another (I speak from XPeriance with a clients laptop here).

My graphics/sound/network/mouse/printer drivers don't go screwy over night either, which I appreciate since I use my computer to get work done, not tinker endlessly with (though the occasional tinker is fun too).

As far as usb mice are concerned, I know someone who has one working sweet, but since I don't own such a beast I can't say much about that in particular. OTOH I'm beginning to have enough of people trashing Linux for problems similar to ones they just put up with silently in Windows.

Please stop the hypocrisy.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[ickpoo]

Step to get a USB mouse working under RedHat 9.0
1. Plug it in
2. Use it.

Hmmm, just plugged in a second mouse. That worked too.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Clockwurk]

USB mouse support in linux has been as robust or more robust than Windows for quite a while.

Sorry, but it just isn't. Try getting mice with back or forwards buttons to work correctly, chances are they won't, and not on uncommon mice (MS Optical Explorer 5 button).

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[GreyWolf3000]

Um, how can my mouse be faulty when it works beautifully under XP and has done so since I plugged it into the USB port on that great day almost a year ago? Yeah, sure, my mouse must definitely be faulty...

By that argument, how could SuSE 9.0 be faulty if Logical Optical USB mice work perfectly for everyone else?

File a bug report, go back to Windows if you have to, and pick up Linux some other time.

For the rest of us whom Linux "just works" right out of the box, we're unconvinced that there is any problem at all. Not even the developers at SuSE will be until you bug them about it :)

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[GreyWolf3000]

Windows isn't perfect. Linux has some problems, but Linux needs to improve for improvement's sake, not to measure up with de facto standards.

For example, I remember trying to configure the internet with a dial up modem, and having like four different icons under the control panel to deal with: telephony, modems, internet settings, and network settings.

XP still has this problem, I believe. Not to mention that I had to return XP Home because I couldn't connect my brothers Windows box to my router because I couldn't give it a static IP. Obviously the technology to do so exists in Home, MS must have disabled it. I get frustrated with Windows because I know Linux and don't really know Windows to well.

These "quirks" should all be bug reports.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[rco3]

With a KSharpie?

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[justins]

Personally, in the last couple of years I've wasted much more time trying to make Logitech's mouse software work on Windows than trying to make mice work in Linux.

In neither case did I up and change operating systems at the first sign of trouble. I don't exactly enjoy spending time figuring this sort of thing out, but it's clearly a solvable problem, not something to freak out about.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[anagama]

• As far as usb mice are concerned ... I don't own such a beast ...

Me neither. I don't understand what is so special about a USB mouse when PS2 mice have been solidly functioning for ages. PS2 was a step up from the DIN connector because it is easier to plug in when you're reaching around a box blind, but the change from PS2 to USB seems like a useless one to me.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[cozziewozzie]

The annoying thing about SuSE is that, although they always put out an amazing distribution, there is always some sort of showstopping glitch that gets through and annoys the hell out of its users.

In 7.3, for example, the SuSE firewall started before eth0, so it didn't work unless you edited the startup scripts by hand. They fixed it in the next version. Now the USB mouse doesn't work, although it worked in all the previous versions. I think that every SuSE version I've tried had some glitch like this (8.2 has some issues with the automounter). Which is annoying because in all other respects, SuSE is a top distribution, and this makes them look like amateurs.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Querty]

Ah, you're doing the famous Windows mind-trick again; who do you think you are, a Jedi Knight?

You're confusing robustness with features.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Laebshade]

I have a Logitech USB Scroll Mouse and it works just fine, even with SuSE 8.2, though the first time YaST detected it, it saw it as an auxilary mouse (serial?). Was a simple fact of changing it to Generic 3-button USB mouse. SuSE 9.0 has no problems detecting the same mouse. If you have a more complex mouse, such as one that has 4 or more buttons, good luck. As a side note, I still don't understand why people have mice which have more than 3 buttons.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[pedrop357]

That's odd. Suse 9.0 had no problems with my USB Logitech Wheel mouse on my desktop or laptop.

I did have to add a second mouse under Saxt to get it to allow my touchpad/stick to work at the same time as the USB mouse. IIRC, only the USB mouse worked, not the PS/2 touchpad/stick.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[PurpleFloyd]

The problem there is X, not Linux. X only supports 5 buttons, and with the typical ZAxisMapping 4 5 configuration for a wheel (which maps wheel up to button 4 and wheel down to button 5) you run out of buttons before you can use the extra two on the side.

Please, place blame where it's due - Linux fully supports the USB Human Interface Device spec (which allows more axes and buttons than any sane person could hope to use). The problem is X, which has been around since before time itself and deserves to be put down.

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[Bodrius]

Is there a way to MetaMod the Moderation as +5 Funny?

Re:SuSE 9 seems to dislike USB mice

[pantherace]

Might want to see what the "ExplorerPS/2" mouse protocol in XFree86 is. Maybe it's specifically for your mouse.

Works and I have personally used it on mice other than the Explorer with more buttons.

Debian to suse

[qwertyatwork]

A few days ago I installed suse on a blank hard drive to find an alternative to debian for my desktop. I was impressed by the hardware detection, but yast was slow! It took forever to pull up. I tried mandrake to, I wasnt impressed at all. Is yast slow for everybody, or just me?

Re:Debian to suse

[jrcamp]

It's fine for me... I'm using a 1.6GHz laptop.

Re:Debian to suse

[Cyph]

It felt pretty sluggish to me too, but I don't consider that to be a major problem because it's not like I spend most of my time adjusting system settings. Neither will you, I assume.

Anyway, I also switched from Debian to SuSE within a few months after the Novell buyout. Always been a big fan of Novell, and I really wouldn't have even considered SuSE if it wasn't for the buyout. SuSE does a kick-ass job at being a desktop replacement.

Re:Debian to suse

[qwertyatwork]

If Im moving my desktop from Debian to suse, why would I look at arch? I looked it over, it seems even less automated than debian does. I want automation on my desktop. I have debian running on my servers, thats enough work without throwing in the desktop machine to.

Re:Debian to suse

[AdamInParadise]

I second Yast... that! Yast is kind of slow (even on beasties like bi-Opterons). Hopefully you don't have to use it too much. The only option that I actually use quite often is the 'Install New Package' option. Since I've installed the distro by FTP, I don't have to search for the DVD so I usually end up waiting for Yast to boot up and look through the package database.

Re:Debian to suse

[Cyph]

Being a Debian convert, I installed apt-get on SuSE to do that. There's a lot more apt sources available for suse than there are YOU media sources, so a wider variety of packages is out there. That in combination with the apt-get GUI synaptic serves as a very robust replacement for "Install New Package". Try it out sometime if you have time.

For those who don't RTFAs

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is the basic jist of things:

GUI looks good.
Some things work, some don't.
Pretty desktops.
Looks faster then the previous version.
Screenshoots of the desktop provided.
I did not like this bit or that.
But at the end of the day it worked for me.
If you're shit with computers, stick with..oh never mind.
More pretty desktops.
Wait for the next version.
Some bugs, but overall germ free.
I give it a rating of **** out of *

Now who do I talk to about my pay cheque for doing this.

what I really want is...

[rokzy]

driver integration for ATI like with nVidia. ATI has had linux drivers for a while now and I think not providing proper card support is one of the major show-stoppers for people trying linux.

since the drivers are proprietary there are "issues", but with nvidia SUSE YOU provides a automatic download link. I want one for ATI!

KDE? GNOME?

[Anonymous Coward]

This article's been up for over quarter of an hour now and... where's the KDE v Gnome flamewar? Did everyone suddenly grow up or something? You guys are no fun any more :(

Re:KDE? GNOME?

[Matrix9180]

No, everyone did not grow up... that's for sure... just try reading this or any other article at -1...

The horror that is Moderator Points...

Re:KDE? GNOME?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use blackbox. I also get laid at least twice a day. GNOME or KDE == mandatory furious masturbation.

Re:KDE? GNOME?

[Asdex]

> This article's been up for over quarter of an hour now and...
> where's the KDE v Gnome flamewar?

The flamewar is included in the article, no need for a flamewar at slash dot.

The reviewer should have called his article^W^Wflamewar not "First Look at SUSE LINUX Professional 9.1" but "My First Look at SUSE LINUX from a Gnome's point of view".

Let's start the flamewar with Yast (there is a QT-based (->evil) GUI for it)

My only concern (and this has been a standing concern for some time now) is that the YaST-based (Yet another Setup Tool) installation process is too lengthy. The installer asks a lot of configuration -related questions which could most likely be automated or, at the very least, give the user an option for a 'beginner' install.

Huh? If you want, you only need to click "Next" and "Yes". OK, you have to type your root password and login+password for a user account, but that's it.

I really don't mind the more complicated questions during installation, but it might be a bit intimidating for new users to Linux.

Of course, because there are no complicated questions for beginners to answer.

I half expected Ximian GNOME to be the desktop of choice with this release. Instead, a very vanilla GNOME 2.4.2 was included.[...]You can definitely tell that far more effort was put into KDE development as there was into GNOME, as it look very 'stock' and unattended to.

Maybe you should say that to the gnome people? Is it Suse's problem if Gnome looks bad?

Granted this software is in beta4 release, so there is still room for improvement, but so far all of the development effort has been on KDE. Even still, it hasn't gone unnoticed. KDE has never looked better.

Can you prove that "all" of the development effort has been on KDE? Hey, the reason for KDE looking better is not Suse, but the release of KDE 3.2.x! ->Screenshot

SUSE, as usual, has spent some time tweaking the KDE desktop to look the best it can.

Nice try, but the KDE-Menu of Suse 9.1 looks like a KDE-3.2 standard-menu.

None of the visual effects (drop shadows, transparency, etc.) are turned on by default but can easily be adjusted within the KDE Control Center (Kcontrol).

That should give Gnome an edge over KDE.

The K Menu (similar to the Windows Start menu) has been reworked and organized to an extent that it makes many other distros look pale in comparison.

It looks like the K-Menu from Suse 9 or Suse 8.2 or any other distro. Welcome to KDE 3.2!

As I stated earlier in the review, I chose the default system configuration to see how well it equipped me to do everything I would need to do on a daily basis. Well, I was not pleased with the results.

Let's see...

While it had several very useful applications, and very well could satisfy most users needs, I found it lacking a few key components. For one, the Mozilla web browser was noticeably missing, as was Gaim instant messenger.

Mozilla is missing because there is Konqueror 3.2.1 and Firefox. Gaim is missing because there is Kopete, which offers more features and better integration.

There was also no graphical FTP clients available such as KBear or gFTP.

Welcome to KDE 3.2. KBear or Gftp is not installed by default, because there is KWallet + Konqueror. With KDE 3.2 there is nearly no need for a stand alone Gui-FTP-Client.

Sure, they are technically GNOME applications (on a certain level anyway), but that's no reason to leave them out of the configuration.

There are good reasons, see above.

YaST has been tightly integrated into Kcontrol (see the screenshots below) to allow centralised administration of all system settings. This is an excellent modification to the package.

NEWS?? Have you ever look

Re:KDE? GNOME?

[Jagasian]

Too bad Nautilus still sucks. Why can't Nautilus manage my files that are on sftp or ssh shares?

Screenshots

[BradlyLane]

s/with screenshots/major slashdotting

Very well and good, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The question is, can it run Linux?

Re:Very well and good, but...

[wneto]

If you mean running linux inside of linux, yes. At least SUSE 9.0 comes with all the necessary UML patches so you can play with the box inside of the box. Read this

Re:Very well and good, but...

[Ithika]

Yeah, but in Soviet Russia YOU install YaST Online Update!

Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[gvc]

A cursory search of the SUSE site and mirrors reveals only 9.0. Surely the 9.1 beta must be available for download someplace. Can somebody provide a URL?

thanks

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[gmuslera]

The problem is not where, but when. The FTP version usually goes "public" after a month or so of the official release, and I suppose that the betas are only released to selected testers.

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[gvc]

I believe it must be released to testers under the GPL. So I would expect a copy to be available somewhere.

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[FreeLinux]

The 9.1 beta is a special release that was opened up to members of the press. It is on a restricted access server. SuSE typically does not make its betas available for download like Red Hat use to with Rawhide. Additionally, SuSE typically releases new versions in boxed sets first and then makes it available by ftp about a month later.

You will probably not be able to get a hold of 9.1 until the first week in May, when you can buy the boxed set. Early June will probably be your first chance to download SuSE 9.1

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[Wudbaer]

Which means that they have to release the sources to the testers, nobody else. What they likely do, if they send them a CD/DVD.

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[gvc]

Sure. Then the testers then have the right to post them on the Web and/or p2p networks. Assuming the distro is GPL.

If the entire distro isn't GPL, then the GPL-derived subset of it still must be. (e.g. they've announced that YAST will be GPL-ed, but I'm not sure that it is yet.) And if the GPL-derived subset is not readily identifiable, surely that makes the whole thing a derivative work.

It would not behoove SUSE to pull a SCO and say "parts of this are secret but I won't clearly identify which."

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[wiresquire]

Ta-da !

Excellent resource with awesome instructions on how to create DVDs or do a HD install as SuSE doesn't provide ISO's. Links to ISO's too.

Re:Where can I find a 9.1 download?

[gvc]

I looked there and didn't see a 9.1 download. I saw a testimonial from somebody who claimed to be downloading it but declined to share the address.

Kernel responsiveness to user input

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing I REALLy want from a computer is for it to be extremely responsive in whatever it is I'm doing. In other words, the "top" applcation that I'm working in (or switching to) should always get top priority; I don't want to wait for the machine.

The other day, a friend directly connected his G3 iBook to my 1.4Ghz P-M laptop over 100mbit ethernet. As he copied large files from me, my computer bogged down and was unusable. Just switching windows to something already open was painful to watch. His iBook, though, just hummed along - he could switch to other apps and use them just fine. Very frustrating.

So....would the Linux kernel 2.6.x be extremely responsivle to user input, no matter what else is going on?

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[Some Bitch]

So....would the Linux kernel 2.6.x be extremely responsivle to user input, no matter what else is going on?

I can only speak from personal experience but I find KDE 3.2.1 + Kernel 2.6.5 pretty hard to slow down. Even with a large emerge going on in the background (processor at 100%) and XMMS doing it's thing (along with the usual 20 zillion apps open) I still find my desktop as responsive as when the processor is idling. Things slow a little if it starts paging to disk but with 512MB RAM that doesn't happen often.

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[t_allardyce]

Maybe the mac was tuned to give more priority to user input since thats the nature of its use but your system was configured to share things out equally - the way things should be on some sort of server. Mac is just a very nicely tuned up unix which rocks!

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[snakattak]

I'll say. The other day, I was playing Unreal Tournament 2004, and an badly timed "emerge sync" went off from my crontab. Now, its not to say I didn't notice it, but Ut2004 was still playable the whole way through the slow painful python process. It was kernel-2.6.5.

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[GreyWolf3000]

If you really want a source-based distro to rock, get SMP. Building software in the background has never been a problem performance-wise.

Plus, when you're building the initial software, you can really speed things up with parallel builds. I don't know if you can do this in Gentoo or not (I'm sure it's possible), but you have to be careful, because some packages like bash can't be built that way.

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[arkhan_jg]

The 2.6 kernel is more responsive to user tasks than 2.4, the scheduler is pretty nifty.

That said, the 2.4 kernel, especially the 2.4.2x series ones was pretty good too.

Chances are, if your system grinds to a halt when doing heavy disk access, is that you don't have DMA turned on.

run hdparm /dev/hda (for example) and look for using_dma. If it's not set to 1, then you need to fix that. Depends on the distro as to the best method, but adding hdparm -d1 /dev/hda to one of the boot-time scripts is pretty foolproof.

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[MikeCapone]

Linux and FreeBSD can run very, very well on those old machines -- even as desktops with the right window manager. OS X may be pretty and all, but compared to Linux or FreeBSD it's an absolute dog.

Apple is a hardware company, so I think it's understandable that they make an OS that takes advantage of modern hardware and put less effort into supporting aging computers.

Besides, try running a recent KDE or Windows on a 200mhz computer. It's not like OS X is the only dog around...

As for microsoft and Apple, I guess it comes down to the fact that the companies that are trying to make money don't care that much about supporting *old* hardware.

Re:Kernel responsiveness to user input

[nathanh]

The other day, a friend directly connected his G3 iBook to my 1.4Ghz P-M laptop over 100mbit ethernet. As he copied large files from me, my computer bogged down and was unusable. Just switching windows to something already open was painful to watch. His iBook, though, just hummed along - he could switch to other apps and use them just fine. Very frustrating. So....would the Linux kernel 2.6.x be extremely responsivle to user input, no matter what else is going on?

100Mbps shouldn't have bogged down any modern computer. A lowly Pentium-100 can flood a 100Mbps ethernet interface. Hard disks are good for at least 20MBps (160Mbps) even in laptops. Your CPU is plenty adequate for realtime SSH encryption (3DES?).

I know this will sound like a copout, but I suspect you have a driver problem. Possible culprits:

• Your hard disk is in PIO mode, not DMA mode. The kernel often uses the "safer" PIO mode but that results in a huge number of interrupts. An otherwise fast machine will feel like crap when that happens. Check your mode with /sbin/hdparm.
• Your ethernet driver (or possibly chipset) simply isn't very good. Cheap chipsets have high interrupt rates that can destroy performance. Or the Linux driver mightn't be up to snuff (yet). Check /proc/interrupts. Try another ethernet card (PCMCIA?).

A 2.6 kernel will give you better interactive response but 2.4 shouldn't have felt unwieldy in the first place. I suspect something else is wrong. Upgrading to 2.6 might fix the actual problem though (newer drivers, etc).

It's frustrating that it doesn't work out of the box and you have to do this. If you buy a laptop preinstalled with Linux (lots of companies now doing this) then the vendor will do all the tweaks for you. Because you've installed your own OS you're responsible for doing the tweaks. More work for you.

Serial-ATA

[moonbender]

At work we're considering buying a new (low end) Dell server which uses S-ATA hard drives. It's supposed to house a SuSE Linux system in the future. However, I'm not sure how well Linux in general, and SuSE in particular works with Serial-ATA drives, especially when there's nothing but Serial-ATA available - ie. the installer would need to work with it, as well.

The best resource I found was this page, but it doesn't help me a lot, either. The server would be a Dell Poweredge 750 running the Intel 7210 chipset, which supports S-ATA.

The system which the new server should replace is currently running SuSE Pro 8.1, which I am fairly certain does not support S-ATA - but does SuSE 9.x?

Re:Serial-ATA

[richie2000]

The nearest I could find in the generic kernel (2.6.4) is intel ICH5 support, and it appears the 6300ESB I/O bus in the E7210 has the same (or at least similar) chip.

If not, this should keep you happy:

The Intel® 6300ESB ICH contains a set of registers that shadow the contents of the legacy IDE registers. The behavior of the Command and Control Block registers, PIO and DMA data transfers, resets, and interrupts are all emulated.

Re:Serial-ATA

[moonbender]

Thanks for the reply. I had read about the ICH5/6 support, but I wasn't sure it'd translate to support for the E7210. Of course, if the mainboard can just act as if the S-ATA hard drives are regular P-ATA ones, at least for the scope of the installation process, all is well.

Re:Serial-ATA

[anagama]

I helped a friend put SuSE 9.0 pro on a computer he assembled from some old parts and a new Asus motherboard w/ SATA controller. He had one IDE drive in there and he bought a new SATA drive.

Both during installation and use, the computer would periodically go into molasses mode. The hourglass icon would turn in ultra slow motion. Open office sometimes took more than a minute to start up (AMD 2500+ system). When transfering files from the IDE to the SATA, transfers would periodically slow down to a crawl.

So I took out the SATA drive, put in a second IDE, and reinstalled the system, speed was normal and snappy. Except that at boot time, SuSE spends forever looking for the non-existent SATA drives. I looked through the BIOS hoping to turn off the SATA controller, but couldn't find the control. I only looked briefly though.

I'm no hardware guru, or linux guru for that matter, but a stock install on a new Asus w/ all the bells and wistles (A7?????-deluxe or something like that) was pretty lame in terms of SATA. No idea if this is hardware or software problem - switching to dual IDEs cured all the problems so that's where I quit troubleshooting.

Re:Serial-ATA

[anagama]

• However, I'm not sure how well Linux in general, and SuSE in particular works with Serial-ATA drives, especially when there's nothing but Serial-ATA available

,/i>
I should mention, my speed issues aside, SuSE correctly found and identified the SATA drive without a hiccup.

Re:Serial-ATA

[arkhan_jg]

linux in general works fine with SATA drives if you're using the 2.6 kernel (they're under device drivers/scsi device support/low level drivers) and as the page you link says, there's the same libata patch for the 2.4 kernel series.

Having done a quick google, it appears the suse 9.0 cd has the support for sata controllers if you type 'apic' at the boot screen. (presumably that's the kernel with the drivers compiled in)

So the one remaining question is if the 7210 chipset is one of the supported ones.

This thread is a patch for the 2.4.26-rc1 kernel piix driver (the one which treats the drive like hda, rather the scsi emulation libata lib_piix which treats it as sda, and is what the 2.6 kernel uses)

Basically, it looks like it's a minor varient of the ICH5 chipset (which is well supported), so if the 7210 isn't supported yet by Jeff Garziks' libata, it soon will be.

At worst, you'll have to install with the sata controller in legacy mode (pretending to be a normal ide master/slave controller), setup a new or patched kernel, and change the bios back to enhanced mode afterwards.

Don't forget, Dell sell their poweredge servers with redhat enterprise - and if redhat supports that chipset, suse likely will too. The simplest route is probably just to email Dell's corporate tech support, and ask if the sata on that model is supported in linux yet. (jeff garzik may work for redhat, he's certainly got a redhat email address, though I hesitate to recommend emailing him directly)

You could also email SuSE, either tech support or one of the mailing lists (suse-linux-e@suse.com iirc, the full list is at lists.suse.com, it's been a while since I used SuSE)

As a quick addendum, avoid the nasty onboard RAID 0/1 on these mainboards. It's like a winmodem, most of the work is done in the closed driver, and the linux support is pretty weak at best.

You're by far and away better off using the sata drives 'standalone' then using the linux native md RAID support to RAID individual partitions. The only time you'd need the closed drivers would be if you were dual booting with windows using the onboard RAID.

Re:Serial-ATA

[arkhan_jg]

I don't use SuSE any more, but I assume that it was using a 2.4 series kernel on 9.0.

From the problems you describe, it sounds like it may be an ICH5 sata chipset (should say on bootup), and it's using the piix driver, which is the native intel IDE driver, and its close enough to the ICH5 to support that too.

There are fairly nasty reports about the piix driver when it's supporting SATA, i.e. lockups and timeouts, and you'd have more joy using a 2.6 kernel (which has libata, and lib_piix specifically, which works much better) or getting a 2.4 kernel with the libata patch applied.

Mind you, since you've gone back to using IDE, it's a bit of a moot point. SATA is not a significant improvement over PATA (old style IDE) at this point, as the underlying drives are the same, and you'd struggle to saturate either bus. Give it a couple of years though, and SATA will be kicking PATA's ass.

Oh, and you should be able to turn the SATA off, either in the main bios, or the 'mini bios' when the controller itself tried to start.

Re:Serial-ATA

[anagama]

Thanks for the info. When I get around to trying SATA for myself, I'll keep in mind that it is possible to make it work well. It's much easier to spend a lot of time on google when you know that the answer exists.

Re:Serial-ATA

[arkhan_jg]

I've got a gigabyte mainboard based server, with dual SATA drives (md RAID 1). With the ICH5 chipset, and the 2.6.4 kernel, it's running merrily, and with the 1000TX network card on it, the thing laughs at every network speed test I've thrown at it (I haven't got a desktop fast enough to hit its limits), and SATA drive to drive transfers when I was testing were in the 50MB/s range, or about 35MB/s when transferring to ATA. So when it works, it works happily :)

Re:Serial-ATA

[ErikZ]

A three inch wide cable vs. a 1 centimeter wide cable was enough improvement for me. I can now RAID 4 drives in the system and not have to fight a barrier of ribbon cables.

Although trying to get Promise SATA RAID working under linux is a pain.

Unless you have a lot of time on your hands, and you're planning on using RAID5 with 4 drives, don't get the Promise S150 SX4 card!

Re:Serial-ATA

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

However, I'm not sure how well Linux in general, and SuSE in particular works with Serial-ATA drives, especially when there's nothing but Serial-ATA available - ie. the installer would need to work with it, as well.

I just installed SuSE 9.0 on a PC with a serial ATA HD. At first I tried it with the BIOS set to legacy mode, but that didn't work. However, giving the "apic" option to the kernel in the installer did work.

Can anyone explain to me what the "apic" option is doing? Is my disk performance reduced in any way? I thought that the installer was really, really slow (it took 2+ hours, on a P4-2.8GHz), but now that the system is installed it seems pretty snappy.

Re:Serial-ATA

[arkhan_jg]

I did a bit more digging, and according to this, (scroll down to the sata support recap) the poweredge 750 SATA is supported natively by RHEL3 using libata (Jeff Garzik's library), and looks like it uses the ICH5 driver, thus it should work on any 2.6 kernel (with the sata drivers compiled), so i'd be very surprised if there isn't one of the SuSE 9.1 2.6 kernels that supports this SATA off the boot CD.

Re:Serial-ATA

[moonbender]

I have no clue as to what exactly the option does to the kernel, however, APIC is short for Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller, and as far as I know is only benefitial - if it works, as it ought to on modern systems. The most obvious advantage is an increased number of interrupts available to the hardware.

Re:Serial-ATA

[arkhan_jg]

APIC is a way to address CPU's in a multi-CPU system. (it's Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller), so is usually only seen on servers, i.e. SMP or multiprocessor boards.

I/O-APIC is a newer way of handling device interrupts (IRQ's) than boards using PIC's. I'm not particularly versed in this area, but I think you still only see it on newer boards. It seems to be around in the same sort of places as you find ACPI usage (a newer way of handling power management than APM)

I would guess that passing that option to the SuSE boot, is actually selecting a slightly different kernel, with different modules compiled into it, designed for high end workstations or servers - APIC and IO-APIC support are kernel options only available for uniprocessor systems (presumably they're enabled automatically with the SMP support option)

Equally, I presume it's the I/O-APIC-enabled kernel that has the SATA drivers compiled in, and the stock one on SuSE 9.0 doesn't.

SuSE does take a while to install (it does chuck on a lot of packages) but it's always possible it didn't DMA enabled or summat when you were installing.

If you're worried about your system now, you can run drive speed tests from the console, i.e. hdparm -tT /dev/hda will give you your drive speeds.

For comparison, I get about 35MB/sec buffered disk reads for my 5400rpm ATA-100, and about 50MB/sec for my 7200rpm ATA-133 drives. I get about 50-55MB/sec for the 7200rpm SATA-150 RAID1 in my server at work, and we managed to get nearly 70MB/sec on a 7200rpm RAID0 SATA-150 system a colleague built.

Re:Serial-ATA

[really?]

I've been running Suse 9.0 of a SATA drive from "day one". It's a matter of which SATA chipset you have on your MB, rather than SATA or no SATA.
(Gigabyte MB with KT600 chipset here.)

Re:Serial-ATA

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

Thanks for the info. I'm getting 54 MB/sec buffered disk reads now, so I guess I'm in great shape.

Re:Serial-ATA

[mumpster]

I guess all major Linux dsitributions are able to cope with this either by direct support in kernel or via a feature to load some custom driver (usually this screen appears after attempt to detect the equipment). I don't sure about SuSE but RH has it. My friend had successfully installed Shrek (rh9) on some Intel 7501 server equipped with SATA drives only in native mode. The driver was taken from Intel site IIRC.

Correction regarding Gnome.

[FreeLinux]

SuSE 9.1 beta does not come with the latest Gnome (2.6) it comes with Gnome 2.4 because 2.6 was released too late to make it into SuSE 9.1 beta. However, Gnome 2.6 will likely be available from SuSE as a separate download.

Don't you remember Joe Barr's pathetic whining about Gnome and SuSE 9.1 beta in his Quick Look article. Possibly the worst review ever written.

Re:Correction regarding Gnome.

[justins]

SuSE 9.1 beta does not come with the latest Gnome (2.6) it comes with Gnome 2.4 because 2.6 was released too late to make it into SuSE 9.1 beta. However, Gnome 2.6 will likely be available from SuSE as a separate download.

It will certainly be available with the Ximian Red Carpet installer. It might also be available as a set of rpms somewhere on their ftp site, I suspect they'll move away from that though, now that Ximian is part of the family.

Re:Review of the review of the review...

[AKAImBatman]

I've been writing reviews of various distros in my journal. I hope to have my Mandrake review up in a day or two. So far, both Fedora and Mandrake have been disappointing. I do have high hopes for SUSE, however. The Java Desktop System demo CD I have is based on SUSE. None of the problems I regularly have with other distros have shown up with that CD. Here's hoping. :-)

Possibly another reason...

[IANAAC]

A lot of different answers here. What you might want to take a look into is how your BIOS is set up. Mine has an option to disable/enable legacy USB support. Another thing to check is during your install, SUSE gives you a couple of different options regarding ACPI which are confusing. You probably don't want to completely disable ACPI, but there should be an option to disable ACPI/USB interaction during the boot process.

Also, once you've rebooted and are in your Window manager (either Gnome or KDE), do't use YaST2 to set up your mouse - use SaX2. From there you can choose all your input devices.

If you purchased your copy of SUSE you should have also received two really good manuals, one for administration, the other for users. All of this information is covered in them.

So much for the review...

[pair-a-noyd]

65 comments and the site folds..
Well, nevertheless..

I for one will be buying 9.1 professional.
I use 9.0 pro now and am very happy with it.
I tried bringing it up with the 2.6 kernel and KDE 3.2 but wasn't happy with that. Things didn't integrate well so I backed it down to a stock 9.0 package and all is well.

Having them integrate all the goodies ensures that everything will work as expected and I'm more than happy to wait (what else can you do?) for 9.1

I'll be traveling over to Fry's to pick up my package of 9.1 Pro when it hits the shelf.
I want the DVD and CD's and books and support. And I don't mind at all paying for it because in my 27 years of working with/on computers, Suse is the BEST operating system package I have used. Everything else is just second rate and inferior.

Re:So much for the review...

[End11]

Suse is the BEST operating system package I have used. Everything else is just second rate and inferior.

What a rediculous thing to say. Suse may be great for your needs, or even the "BEST", but not everybody will share your opinion. Just a little higher up in your post you mentioned having problems with some simple upgrages; personally I would never use a distro i couldn't make my own kernel for.
I'm glad you've found a distro that suits your needs, but calling other peoples choices inferior is childish and pointless. I use gentoo, and have never had to download a new iso as it updates so flawlessly. For me, gentoo is the BEST. It runs extremely quickly, and installing things is a breeze.
The only operating system that deserves your kind of scorn IMHO starts with a W and ends in indows.

Re:So much for the review...

[jrcamp]

I wish I had mod points to mod your ass down.

The guy was sharing his opinion... "Suse is the BEST operating system package I have used."

Heaven forbid somebody have an opinion. He said it was the best OS he has ever used. So what? Grow a set of balls and dry your tears because Jimmy doesn't play with your distro.

Lastly, the upgrades problems he spoke of were for EXPERIMENTAL packages they he had to intentionally seek out to install. They didn't work so well, so I don't really think SuSE is here to blame. However, the experimental KDE 3.2.x packages have worked just fine for me.

On a more positive note, I too can't wait for 9.1.

Re:So much for the review...

[QCompson]

Just want to give some props to Suse:

I also have 9.0, and I recently upgraded to Kde 3.2 and the 2.6.4 kernel (via Suse's rpms); it was a painless upgrade and now my system is running beautifully.

Re:So much for the review...

[End11]

*sigh* I guess I didn't put that as well as I should have. I have no problem at all wtih him saying "Suse is the BEST operating system package I have used." Of course he as every right to his opinion, and I'm honestly glad that it has found something that is working out for him so well. What I don't understand is why he felt the need to tack on "Everything else is just second rate and inferior."

anyway my point was supposed to be that knocking other distros is not only pointless but rediuclous as each distro has it's own strenghts that will appeal to everybody differently. For example my distro is good for bleeding edge, "EXPERIMENTAL packages" but not so much for stability or ease of use. Does this make it "second rate and inferior"? no, it just means i have different priorities.

Anyway I apologize for my original post, which now that I read it again was not as clearly thought out as I had intended.

Not a troll - it was XP

[Anonymous Coward]

I should have been more clear: I was running XP.

Sax

[fm6]

I've been using SuSE for a while (currently 8.2), and I've had similar problem with the last couple of edition of SuSE when I was installing it on laptops. By default YaST doesn't configure 2 mice (touch pad + usb) set up, and only SaX does. But the problem is when I configure mice using SaX, YaST will overwrite the mice config file after reboot. If you ever need to reconfigure mice setup, NEVER use sax.

I've been burned every time I used Sax, on any distribution. I'd be particularly hesitant to use it on SuSE, which has a lot of ambitious admin tools of its own, which are bound to conflict with Sax.

apt/urpmi?

[iantri]

Just wondering if SuSE has anything like apt or urpmi built into it; does YOU do this?

Re:apt/urpmi?

[arkhan_jg]

YAST is sort of the equivalent of urpmi, (i.e. an RPM dependency management tool/graphical installer)

It's been a year or so since I used SuSE, but yast was avaiable either as a curses interface, or GTK.

YAST is the entire management tool tho, so it's more like the whole *drake tools than urpmi alone.

IIRC, YAST is used for installing/uninstalling packages, modifying settings, configs etc, YOU (YAST online update, iirc) is security patches for existing installed RPMS, similar to windows update or redhat's up2date.

Re:apt/urpmi?

[iantri]

So can you ask YAST to say, install grip and have it automagically download it and its dependancies off the internet like urpmi or apt-get?

Re:apt/urpmi?

[arkhan_jg]

Normally, you'd pull it off the SuSE DVD or cds - SuSE Pro comes with an insane amount of software rpms, it's one of it's main advantages, I don't think I found a single app I wanted that wasn't supplied on the DVD when I used to run it, so you don't need a broadband connection like you do with some distros. But yes, YAST would install grip and it's dependencies for you. There's even meta packages, like gnome, which grabs the lot.

SuSE personal is also fairly well supplied, but lacks all the server rpms like apache and mysql which is a bit limiting I think.

YOU tends to pull down backported security patches for the versions that are on the DVD, rather than new versions of packages per se (though those do show up eventually) and it can be a bit of a wait for official SuSE rpms to show up for newer versions, such as mozilla.

That's the main reason I no longer run SuSE - I like to run bleeding edge, and I ended up using apt4rpm with the unofficial suse rpms. That worked, but I wanted a distro with a faster release cycle.

FWIW, I believe the yast licence allows you to copy someone else's SuSE CD's, as long as you don't pay them for it. (obviously, you can copy the gpl-based software). I don't think you can copy the pay-series CD (staroffice etc) as they tend to have more restrictive licences. Still, if you know someone running SuSE, you can legally try it out using their cd's, or a copy of them, or you could do an internet ftp install (they normally put up an ftp install of a release about a month after it hits the shelves).

Or, they do a live-cd demo version, which doesn't have the whole enchilada (it doesn't install to HD, last i checked), but is a bootable cd, somewhat like knoppix.

Still, it's worth buying an official copy of you like it, as they do provide a HUGE amount of packages that all work first time on the DVD (you get cd's too), and the dead-tree manual is the best I've seen supplied for any OS or distro, bar none.

Re:apt/urpmi?

[tedric]

You can use apt-rpm with SuSE, too: http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/. The SuSE way would be using YaST/YOU for updates.

Re:Classic *BSD troll?

[iantri]

It actually is easy to make Windows slow like this; accessing a floppy drive on Windows 95/98 will slow the system to a crawl.

Don't know if it does this on NT-based Win OSes, since I haven't used a floppy in a while, but I doubt it.

Give Slackware a chance

[MikeCapone]

If you want fast, try Slackware.

It's fine as a desktop on my ancient K6-2 450mhz 192 megs RAM, with KDE 3.2.1 et Kernel 2.6.5.

Re:FREE Suse 9.1 preview here

[pair-a-noyd]

For god's sake people lighten up, the parent post was fscking HUMOR.... Doh!!

SUSE logo changed?

[joeseph schmo]

Maybe slashdot should update the SUSE topic icon.

It looks like the lizard has been put on a diet (suse.com).

Oh, and two of his legs have been chopped off...

Re:linux monitor support

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like you're not enabling xinerama support. The easy way - use yast to reconfigure your display - look for xinerama support/dual-head support. The hard way -- ctrl-alt-F6 log in as root go to run level 3 (to do so simply type "init 3" at the command line prompt with no "'s) . Type sax2 - sax2 will kick in - configure it for dual-head support.

Enjoy

Pre-emption and first to market comments

[EvilAlien]

I think 2.6 with pre-emption compiled into the kernel will be the solution for that you are looking for. You could also strategically re-nice processes as needed...

As a note, SuSE, despite their marketing claims, is not the first distribution to go to market with a commercial 2.6 kernel. This Beta is for a product that will offer the 2.6 kernel, however Gentoo is already selling Gentoo 2004.0, and Mandrake is selling copies of Mandrake 10 Community on DVD.

I don't know how SuSE defines "commercial" or "first", but if other distros are selling copies before SuSE even has released 9.1, then I'd have to say their marketing campaign needs to be revised ;)

Re:Pre-emption and first to market comments

[Jagasian]

I am not sure when Debian got the 2.6 kernel, but its been installed on my Debian computer for a while now. It works great!

Re:Pre-emption and first to market comments

[EvilAlien]

Technical support != commerical product. The exchange of money for product is what, as far as I'm concerned, defined that product as "commercial".

As far as the unsupported and un"default" 2.6 kernel in SuSE 9.0, I'd also require the 2.6 kernel to be the default option. Gentoo might violate this, but Mandrake certainly does not. You have to choose LSB compatibility in the Mandrake install to fall back to the 2.4 kernel.

Re:FREE Suse 9.1 preview here

[rokzy]

no, it might have been an ATTEMPT, but it certainly wasn't humour.

Upgrade path?

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

I'm new to SuSE. I just purchased SuSE 9.0 Pro and I'm very happy with it. It looks like the upgrade to 9.1 costs $60 - is that right? I was happy to pay for 9.0 Pro, but I don't want to spend another $60 just a couple of months later. Will there be ISOs I can download? Or will there be an ftp mirror I can use for a net install?

Re:Upgrade path?

[maja33]

You can buy SuSE Update for $49.95. It the same as Suse Pro but without the manuals.

Re:Upgrade path?

[arkhan_jg]

SuSE dont do ISOs (apart from the bootable live-cd)

IIRC, the package updates should show up in YOU (eventually, they seem to prefer backporting patches to the versions on the DVD for a while), or you can configure YAST to connect to an ftp mirror, which is usually available about a month after the packaged cds hit the shelves.

You could either pull down the updates individually through yast, or do it all in one go, and do a net-install upgrade via ftp.

Alternatively, you can get a cheaper upgrade version, if you don't have broadband.

just installed 9.0

[danoaks15]

Damnit I just installed 9.0 yesterday and now im not cool any more.

Screenshots?

[ViolentGreen]

Do we really need screenshots to see that KDE and gnome on SUSE? I have never understood the purpose of putting screenshots in distro reviews. If it was screenshots of YaST It wouldn't be such a big deal.

I guess there are more important things to be concerned about then reviews of distros putting screenshots though...

Mainstream?

[SphericalCrusher]

I think that if Novell bought out some small PC manufacturer, threw this version of SUSE on it, and sold it, Linux would evolve a lot faster than anyone would think.

The only thing Linux really needs now is ATI drivers, easy-configurable WineX-style software, and smart users. I guess we maybe can get 2/3 of those in the future though...

All in all though, I'm looking forward to getting this as soon as it comes out -- I'm actually going to buy the commercial version! I just wish it had more support for GNOME... but at least it HAS it!

From a beta tester

[crusher-1]

I just finish testing 9.1. I was accepted as a beta tester starting with 8.0. Overall I was personally very pleased with SuSE's (excuse me - SUSE) latest efforts.

What surpised me the most was the stability of Beta 1. Try as I might I, and others, didn't bump into to anything kludgey to file a bug report. Others did, but the amount of bug reps filed were far less than I and others expected. In Beta 4 I did find but one in KDE and OO.o dealing with Styles and Windows Decorations. I filed my bug rep with the backtrace. Well about 2 days later the dev asked me to confirm what he suspected was the problem and sure enough it was patched/fixed - move along nothing to see here.

My test system is really mundane. A simple celery 800 on an older MSI board, on-board sound, and 133MHz memory. By most standards... Well old. What also delighted me to no end was the speed and robustness of the system. To put it plainly it was snappy and quick. 2.6 should be (what am I saying? IS) a great boost to Linux overall.

YaST has gotten a face lift, more over nice eye candy. KDE 3.2 is very nice, Gnome is working much better than it ever has on a SuSE distro. I guess having Ximian and Novell for support pays off. Installation was very nice as should be expected. I know I probably sound like a "fanboy", and to a point I am. But in all honesty SuSE has continued to make my desktop system very comfortable and a joy to use and learn.

The real nice thing is that it is by all accounts fairly enterprise ready by and large. I look forward to 9.2. It just keeps getting better. And Novell to date hasn't had any negative impact on it's development AFAICT. If anything I suspect that SuSE will get more support.

As far as X is concerned it uses the latest pre-release before XFree86 implemented its ever popular "advertising" clause. Discussions related to X.org implementation is that it's being seriously investigated as a replacement, providing that the XFree86 keeps it's present license - X.org's version 6.7.0 or later appears to be the likely candidate for 9.2, as other Linux distro's are likely to adopt this as well IMHO.

Mouse support under SuSE 9.x

[DrYak]

right up until the point that the mouse (which worked fine during install) didn't work on the second boot, then wouldn't work when KDE started
got the same problem like you with SuSE 8.2, SuSE 9.0/i386, SuSE9.0/x86_64, but not on all systems.

For some obscure reason, the "hid.o" modules fails to load. Don't know why....
I added a post-install line in "modules.conf" to force it load. It works now.

something like "post-install mousedev modprobe -k hid" should do the job.
"man modules.conf" to get more information on the syntax.

Re:Classic *BSD troll?

[mattyrobinson69]

i had this problem when making backups (large .tar.bz2's) with a default slackware install (im not trolling - i love slack)

enable dma, mount all your partitions with noatime, if you have plenty of ram and swap, mount /tmp as tmpfs. then your laptop should run nice and smooth.

ahhhh.