Posted by
michael
on from the double-your-pleasure dept.
cojsl writes "Anandtech reviews the Jetway Magic Twin small form-factor PC that allows two simultaneous users on one Windows PC. The article mentions a mobo only option too."
Actually, I can't help thinking "Share violation reading file winword.exe - this file is in use by another program. Windows will reboot now in order to free the file winword.exe for your usage [OK] "
-- -><- no.sig is good sig.
But how well does it handle FPS games?
by
Seng
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I'm guessing not real well...
Re:But how well does it handle FPS games?
by
Spleener12
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Depends on the card, the processor, and the game, I'd guess. You'd basically be doubling the load on both the video card and the processor. I can see Quake3 running just fine regardless, but a newer game might have some problems. I doubt that they're going for the hardcore gamer demographic with this concept, though.
meaning the MoBo is actually siamese twins sharing non-critical chips (err.. organs).
I predict, in the very near future, a blockbuster Hollywood buddy movie about one of these conjoined mobos: Stuck on BSOD.. Starring Matt Damon as the Chipset and Greg Kinnear as the Floppy Drive. Bound to make a mint, no chance that it will bomb...
-- Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Re:Terminal Server
by
sampowers
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· Score: 3, Funny
Yeah, I sure do wish Linux could do that! We're always playing catch-up with Microsoft!
Re:Terminal Server
by
kimgh
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I have Win XP Pro, and, while 2 users can be logged in at one time (one at the console, the other over a network), they both cannot be working at the same time.
I don't call that "truly multi-user."
By contrast, my Mac, running OS X, is truly multi-user: I can connect to it over the network while someone else is at the console, and we both can do stuff.
But that's just how Microsoft chose to license it (XP workstation). There is nothing inherent in the OS, that prevents them from working in parallel. In fact, NT Servers (XP and 2000) allow multiple people to login. I'm using Remote Desktop right now to access one from my FreeBSD box.
Also, rumors are, the limit on the number of simultamious users can be increased by careful editing of the registry, but I can not find the link right now...
-- In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Terminal Server
by
dnamaners
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Looks like as noted above that this is a softwear & XP trick, and not actually directly related their pc in particular. They specify that it needs their proprietary softwear, a 2 head VGA card and a mouse and keyboard splitter. Id bet they rout the input of 1 set of devices to each user and controll XP login with it.
Sort of neat but to me it seems like a bit of a curiosity rather than a true tool. I'd place it on par with neato bundled remotes and LCD panels on some boxes. That sort of candy can be darn usefull for a few but is not on the "needs" list form most users. Maybe this product would do better as an optional upgrade package for use with any PC.
Re:Terminal Server
by
Malc
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· Score: 2, Informative
VNC can be configured under Linux to display an existing desktop, not just one of it's own virtual desktops. This is how KDE implements desktop sharing.
Re:Terminal Server
by
Malc
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· Score: 4, Informative
bhtooefr is correct. There can be only one person connected whether it be at the console or via RDP. Logging on via RDP disconnects everybody else and connects to an existing desktop if that user has already logged in. Logging on at the console will then disconnect that remote user, and connect to the same session if it is the same username.
I wish there were a way to hack XP's terminal services to allow multiple concurrent logons.
Re:Terminal Server
by
Woody77
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· Score: 2, Informative
The Win32 API has had most of what's required for this since long before Terminal Services. CreateWindowStation() is one of the calls. I don't think it had multiple interactive user support, but it did have multiple desktop support, and a bunch of other things not exposed by the windows GUI.
Stuff I always wanted to implement, but then I just switched to linux.
Re:Terminal Server
by
Foolhardy
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· Score: 2, Informative
CreateWindowStation was intoduced in NT 3.51 to support Citrix's WinFrame server, the predessor to MS Terminal Services. Multiple desktops (not sessions) have always existed in NT; when you press ctrl-alt-delete while logged on, it switches to the logon desktop.
About Linux: yeah, there are lot of things in Windows (NT mostly) that Microsoft and everyone else woefully neglects, and that's not usually the case with Free/Open software
Big Deal
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Informative
Terminal Services and Remote Desktop have been able to do this forever. Nothing new here.
I want the opposite...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I want to be able to use multiple computers via one user interface...
Don't KVM switches and/or ssh/VNC/Terminal Services/PC Anywhere/etc. pretty much solve that problem?
Re:I want the opposite...
by
esac17
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· Score: 3, Informative
That problem is easily answered when considering 1 or 2 computers run off one interface (VNC, TS, telnet, ssh). But the problem comes when one wants to manage their whole lab infrastructure or every computer in their home from one interface. Windows 2003 comes with a neat little MMC snapin called "Remote Desktops" that lets you manage all of your TS sessions. The problem with that is that there is one process for each computer, and if you can imagine, 100-1000 mstsc.exe processes can consume quite a bit of memory. As well it doesn't support features that KVM does like being able to broadcast to all of the machines at once.
What would be nice is software that lets you split your computers into groups, allow you to broadcast to those specific groups, etc..
Wondering about licensing and grammar
by
The+I+Shing
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· Score: 5, Interesting
I wonder how licensing will work for software installed on such a computer.
Will software makers insist that multiple licenses be bought for software that will be used by two users simultaneously?
And speaking of things being equal, I feel a Grammar Raid coming on...
"Magic Twin looks like a pretty unique solution..." the article says. Why do people insist on qualifying the word unique? Something is either unique or it isn't. An object cannot be "somewhat unique" or "almost totally unique." The word means one of a kind, and without equal. Something either has equals or it doesn't.
Grammar Slammer Bammer slam Igor tomorrow, for sure!
-- You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Re:Wondering about licensing and grammar
by
Mr.+Bad+Example
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· Score: 5, Funny
> An object cannot be "somewhat unique" or "almost totally unique." The word means one of a kind, and without equal. Something either has equals or it doesn't.
That's the most perfect description of a superlative I've ever seen.
Re:Wondering about licensing and grammar
by
Dun+Malg
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· Score: 2, Funny
> An object cannot be "somewhat unique" or "almost totally unique." The word means one of a kind, and without equal. Something either has equals or it doesn't.
That's the most perfect description of a superlative I've ever seen.
And my addendum is the worstest joke on the subject, ever.
-- If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:Wondering about licensing and grammar
by
pla
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I wonder how licensing will work for
software installed on such a computer.
For a better question, I wonder if anyone
(other than Microsoft) will care.
Not a troll or flamebait - Really, how many
home users actually went out and bought
Windows or Office? For a business, a few
hundred bucks might not mean much (particularly
in comparison with getting caught running an
unlicensed app). For a home user, many people
balk at even paying $50 for their tax
software, nevermind something as mundane as
a word processor and spreadsheet (and the
rest, that I have yet to see anyone use
outside a work environment).
People get Windows with their machines. They
get Office from a friend or borrow the install
CD from work. Legality simply doesn't matter,
end of story.
Or, for an already-common analogy, how many
people paid extra fees to use on a dual-CPU
box (most commercial software includes provisions
limiting its use to on a per-CPU basis as well)?
Answer? No one. Even businesses usually
overlook that one, for "mere" duals.
Watch out for the licensing issues here
by
Amiga+Lover
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· Score: 5, Insightful
from the review the units abilities"
1 PC can be used by 2 users at the same time
2 users can browse the internet, send and receive email at the same time
2 users can access all software installed on the PC at the same time (Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Data Base, games, etc.)
2 users can play games against each other with a dual-port VGA card
I know many softwares of mine have claims that only one person may use it on one machine at one time. What does this mean? If two Excels are loaded on the same machine at the same time where is the licensing happening? No check over network will find any but it's own self running when really it's running for another user anyway on the same machine and that would still end up being a violation of the licensing of a product.
MS would not be amused.
Re:Watch out for the licensing issues here
by
prat393
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· Score: 2, Insightful
The difference here is that you pay for a license to use it on your computer. It's just multiple instances on the same computer - there's no network in use here, and the 2 end users are sitting AT the same computer, which just happens to have more than one monitor. Licenses distinguish about running over a network by saying that the application is being displayed and interacted with on one computer, but is hosted on/executed on another, interonnected by some kind of network. A dual head VGA card and two keyboards are still just a "1 CPU" license.
Re:Watch out for the licensing issues here
by
dustman
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I remember reading that the original arguments in favor of software licenses was this:
Computer code is protected under copyright, every time you run a program, it is being copied from your hard drive (or other storage medium) into the computer memory. So, you are not allowed to do this (you are not the copyright holder) by default, and by agreeing to the license you are allowed to make the copy (just like the GPL, conceptually).
From the above post:
I know many softwares of mine have claims that only one person may use it on one machine at one time.
It would be interesting to take a similiar literal interpretation of law/agreement to note that on a single processor machine, only one instance of a program is ever running at the same time... The machine is just switching back and forth quite often:)
Thats a great idea. Never seen anything like it. I have similar problems. For example, while my sister visits barbie, I wouldn't get kicked off,we could both be on it and not know it. Playing two intensive games at once might not work though. Its a great idea. All I can say
Ready for the jokes?
by
eric76
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· Score: 4, Funny
How about the blonde who had one of these with a KVM switch to handle both screens?
Happens all the time where I work
by
Neil+Blender
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· Score: 3, Funny
The user of the windows box and the admin trying to fix it working together as one. I see it everyday.
Taking a step back?
by
mizidymizark
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Is it me, or is this returning to the days of dumb terminals? I think this is practical for some of the suggestions they had, ie. 2 children doing homework, but this is hardly a revolutionary idea.
Well, minus multiplied with minus becomes a positive. So I guess it would cancel out. On the other hand, Windows would probably BSOD when trying to multiply something. So, we get (--)-, which is -. A BSOD. Now, if the bluescreen subroutine (known internally in microsoft as "void releaseDateFixer(void)") also BSODs, you would be back in the graphical interface again. To crash the BSOD routine, you would probably need to do something as cruel as... plugging in a new printer or something.
-- Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
These have been around for some time
by
spidergoat2
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· Score: 3, Informative
These are nothing new. The PCBuddy has been around for a number of years. We don't pay much attention to this stuff in the USA because PC's and parts are cheap. These devices are popular in third world countries where resources are streched.
I have this already
by
AtariAmarok
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Two users on my PC at once?
I already have this. Not only am I using it, but Bill Gates apparently has free range over the thing, as does Bonzi Buddy. I bet if I run AdAware, I'll find a half-dozen other unknowns sharing it with me as well!
the PC model is kind of really not that good of an idea, all things concidered. I am sure those of who are network admins or some such at companies know that individual PCs on the desks of the employees is headache central. Why not take the terminal server model into the homes? There would need to be only one machine, it could sit in the closet w/ the cable modem or whatever, out of the way. Perhaps with a CD changer or virtual disk mirrors to keep it from really needing to be accessed. Then there could be wireless heads around the house, one for each member of the family, say. Then everyone can use the computer at the same time and need only one copy of the OS, anti-virus, et cetera. It'd be a lot neater to handle.
Does the hard drive look seperate for each user? Or are they piggy-backing onto the Fast User Switching / Built-in Terminal Server feature of XP to provide user seperation?
The article is _light_ on detail for a five page pseudo-advertisement.
Fuck.
-- Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Anyone remember the BUDDY?
by
vasqzr
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· Score: 2, Informative
Buddy betwin - Betwin B-680 - Enables 2 Users or more to share 1 PC
Sometimes one computer just isn't enough. With buddy betwin, you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on a second PC. This device lets you connect a second keyboard, mouse and monitor to your existing computer to create a second, fully functional PC. Share drives, printers, scanners, software, and even surf the Internet at the same time using only one modem, one telephone line and one Internet Service Provider account. Start taking full advantage of your computer's power! Every member of your household can be online simultaneously. You can track your investments while your spouse sends e-mail and your high-schooler downloads information for a homework assignment - all at the same time, and using just one Internet connection. It enables up to four additional users to share the computing power and resources of a single computer running Windows 2000 or XP. This is perfect for the home and small office. Simply install it into your computer and connect an additional monitor, keyboard and mouse. Windows ® will recognize all the devices automatically. Now you can do your work while the kids play their games!
Never got to use one. How did/didn't it work?
Re:Anyone remember the BUDDY?
by
241comp
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· Score: 2, Informative
Actually, you can still get the BeTwin software (http://www.thinsoftinc.com/products_betwin_info.h tml) and all it requires is a dual-head video card or multiple cards and USB kybd, mouse and optional USB speakers. I installed and ran the demo of the software on my PC back in 2001 and I could run 2 instances of C&C Renegade (FPS) at 800x600 on a dual-head GF2 card. It worked really well for all other applications I tried. You can still download a demo of the software here: http://www.thinsoftinc.com/download_2002.php or buy a copy for ~$100. It worked great for me and I've been contemplating using it to add a terminal on my Windows machine downstairs and in the third floor rec room. My computer sits idle most of the time anyway.
Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
NitroWolf
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· Score: 4, Interesting
It's not unique. This has been around for more than a decade. I remember an add on card for sale in CompUSA that allowed this exact thing.
I never bought one, because I never had a need. But this is no unique, in so far as allowing to people to use the same box via a mouse and keyboard. It's kinda nice to see this functionality updated, but it's certianly not unique.
However, it leads to some legal question for software licenses.
Most EULA's say you can run "One instance of the software on ONE machine at a time" - how does this apply to this machine? If you run two instances of a software package on the same machine, are you in violation of the EULA? My gut reation is yes... but will they really care?
Depends. If it's not popular, this obviously won't be inforced, but if this is something that becomes more popular, will we start to see software that won't let you run multiple instances of it at once?
The article says you can play head to head VGA games against each other... but how does that work if you're only running one instance, or are you running two instances?
This just doesn't seem all that practical for game playing. For productivity apps, though, this could be killer for cube rats. IT could deploy one machine for two cubes, cutting your hardware budget, and support in half!
Lots of questions, both technical and legal need to be worked out before this could really take off. Couple that with the fact that previous attempts at this didn't seem to fly, for whatever reason, it makes me wonder if this isn't already a dead technology.
Re:Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
Xeo+024
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· Score: 2, Informative
You're right this isn't unique, in fact they had a mini-computer called the Virtual PC Buddy B-210, but the main difference between the Jetway machine and the PC Buddy, is that the PC Buddy could share it's resources with up to five people, instead of Jetway's two.
Re:Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
Carl+T
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· Score: 3, Insightful
For productivity apps, though, this could be killer for cube rats. IT could deploy one machine for two cubes, cutting your hardware budget, and support in half!
Hardware budget in half? Not if you still need two screens and two sets of input devices. And the computer itself will be more expensive than a normal one, so the gain would be less than the cost of a single machine.
As for support... well, software support is what costs money, or so I believe. It comes down to whether it's proportional to the number of machines or how much they're used. My guess would be mostly the latter if we're talking about MS Windows, and then there's little to gain here. It could even be that sharing a machine like this brings about trouble of its own. Ditto for hardware. But what's most worrying from a business point of view is that every time one person's computer is down, so is another's. Potentially doubling downtime to save maybe $200 (a wild guess, admittedly) per person per three years doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
--
This signature is not in the public domain.
Re:Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
brre
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· Score: 2, Funny
It's not unique. This has been around for more than a decade...
More like three decades.
Wow, a computer that lets 2 users run
different apps at the same time --
a bold leap into the 1970s!!
What will they think of next???
Re:Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
ScrewMaster
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Well, given the price of a good bookshelf system nowadays I would say that from a space-efficiency standpoint you're just as well off with two separate machines. And so far as IT goes, when you need to upgrade a system you now have two workers idle instead of only one, and if the hard drive blows chunks you also have two workers idle instead of only one. My feeling is that this would be great if computers cost $3,000 instead of $300: it's a solution to a problem that disappeared long ago. It's dead tech, all right... stillborn. Really, it's a return to the mainframe/minicomputer ideal of sharing expensive processor time. Unfortunately, processor power is dirt cheap nowadays, so there really is no need to share it, certainly not for the target market of general office use.
-- The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Re:Unique? No... but legal questions?
by
Myself
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· Score: 3, Informative
Yeah, it was called the Buddy, and the old incarnation sucked. It was a PCI board which was essentially a video card plus a PS/2 keyboard and mouse controller. The video capabilities were terrible (sync rate limited to 60Hz, IIRC), and the second keyboard was prone to random resets and other problems.
The new incarnation of Buddy seems to address all those problems by using standard hardware. Buddy and BeTwin (they look like the same software) appear to work with any PCI video board that'll coexist with other video hardware, and since they use USB keyboards and mice (and audio, if you want), the proprietary controller problems should be gone too.
The new Buddy doesn't stop at 2 stations, either. It'll happily run up to 5, which might have a chance of using some of the absurd CPU power available in a modern PC. They have a trial version up for download, I might have to check my hardware compatibility and tinker with it later.
Two blue screens of death for the price of one...
by
SmackCrackandPot
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· Score: 3, Funny
It appears that it doesn't even do the dual user function out of the box From the article "What Do You Need for a Twin PC?.... Dual Head VGA - the 860Twin comes with just a single VGA connector, so you must add a Dual Head VGA card for Twin PC operation."
So I would buy this box, then have to immediatly buy a new graphics card, thus making the one it came with useless?
Hard to see the advantages of this thing outweighing two seperate machines.
Bite me whoever modded my comment down
by
Seng
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· Score: 2, Insightful
It's a legit comment you mod-nazis... They plainly push the fact that you can play head-to-head games if you get a dual-port VGA card... It doesn't do much good to tout that as a selling point if the games play like shit!
this wasn't a review
by
bmajik
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· Score: 5, Insightful
this was an ad.
not a single thing was said about how it works. How does the 2nd keyboard direct its keystrokes to the 2nd display ? Is the 2nd display an RDP client, or is it a 2nd monitor of window session 0 ? Are the two users running as different XP logins ? what does the magic twin software do ? new keyboard driver ? new mouse driver ? new audio driver ?
Without knowing how this thing works, it's a non article.
-- My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Re:this wasn't a review
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Informative
Slashdot called it a "review". Anandtech called it a "first look". Two different beasts.
To me, it is just an informative piece, no reason to put it on slashdot with just this single link. There are other links people have given that are also useful...
More information plus pricing
by
erick99
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· Score: 5, Informative
This website does a pretty good job explaining the technology involved and also provides some pricing.
Happy Trails!
Erick
-- http://www.busyweather.com/
Re:On (U|Li)n[iu]x
by
stonedyak
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· Score: 3, Funny
Linx? Uniux? Those aren't operating systems. You're just making this up now!
The Mainframe is BACK!
by
code+addict
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a mini version of a mainframe w/terminals? Maybe that's the next trend in computing, one PC per household, with multiple terminals for each family member!
First we have unix on mainframes, then Windows on PCs, and now we're moving back to Unix on mainframes again...;)
could developers....
by
zogger
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· Score: 3, Interesting
..use this? Be compiling and what not on one side, running the compiled code or working on writing on the other? Seems like one practical use. Or having one of the sides be for casually being on the net, while the other side is more open in admin mode for working, or are they both as vulnerable?
no, didn't RTA.
Also via a PCI card
by
phoebe
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· Score: 5, Informative
Applica have been doing this for a bit, they also sell 4-station cards so that 5 users can share one PC!
It wasn't enough to steal Windows from Xerox. Now they have to go and steal ideas from *nix. Hasn't that been standard in *nix environments for awhile?
Does this mean that when purchasing a Windows liscense users will now have to decide whether or not the need a liscence and a half? Or just the single.
Oh I'll have the single please. And crack it later
What will this do to Grandma and Grandpa computer user? Imagine your grandparents out getting their first PC.
The technobable alone is staggering. I know what you are thinking, "not me I'm the uber geek".
Well think back to your first box, how much did you know? Chances are older consumers purchasing new systems, some for the first time, may be frightened off or taken advantage of.
Microsoft needs to stop. How much money is enough?
I have an idea for Microsofts new business model. Do one thing. Do it well. You guys already have the world by the short n curlies.
Besides when the rest of the world realizes that there are Linux distros out there for less than half the cost of a Windows liscnse, they will switch. As for me, I've had enough B$ from M$.
THANK YOU! Mr. Torvalds
-- I am Bennett Haselton!
I am Bennett Haselton!
forget the licensing issues...
by
No.+24601
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· Score: 2, Interesting
this is one of the most useless ideas out there. I don't see any reason for people to purchase hw so they can use the same Windows box. PCs are sufficiently cheap right now that you're better off buying two and hooking them up over ethernet. You can still share files, share apps, etc. but crashes will affect only one user rather than two. Windows is not a multi-user system... it was designed for one user, and when it comes down to it XP is just a hack for multiple profiles.
A real solution, that's already been mentioned here, is having one Linux box and setting up multiple desktops with VNC. That's if you absolutely must combine your systems or want to have apps installed on one setup. You can have as many dumb terminals as you want hooked into that machine.
Making a machine multi-user is a software problem not a hardware one and this idea will FAIL.
Install guide has some more details...
by
morcheeba
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· Score: 3, Informative
We can only guarantee that the program will properly run on a completely reinstalled Windows XP system, using the latest hardware drivers and system requirements,
without third-party software and hardware.
.. so as long as you don't try to run any applications on it, you'll be fine! The software is fully tied to Windows XP, so no chance of running other operating systems. It looks like there is only one copy of Windows XP running, but then Page 13 has this quote:
Microsoft Windows License Request: After you have read and accept the Microsoft license terms, the MagicTwin software will explicitly ask you, the licensee, whether you have obtained a sufficient number of Windows licenses. If your choice is "NO" then at every restart the software will notify you of this issue.
Page 8 tells you to turn off the system standby in XP's power management. Guess they don't have that working well. But they do warn the second user if the first user decides to shut down the system.
There are already a few misguided posts on the matter so hopefully, I can clear this up for you.
Microsoft and many other software makers already address this licensing issue. On this machine Microsoft requires either two licenses for Windows or one Windows license and a Terminal Server Client Access license. For MS Office a license is required for each per seat instance. SO, two users in Word requires two licenses.
This same licensing system is also required by many/most other commercial vendors. Anyone familiar with Terminal services or Citrix should be familiar with this licensing model. If they aren't Microsoft will enjoy speaking with them.
SunBlade 2500 with two users and two keyboards
by
maitas
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Actually sun's SunBlade 2500 workstation can be used by two users simoultaneously, with two keyboards and two graphics boards sharing resources! (Solaris 9 and up only)
Re:linux and windows
by
Neil+Blender
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· Score: 2, Informative
Would it be possible for 1 user to run windows, while the other user runs linux?
You could use VMWare. But you'd probably be better off running Windows on top of Linux to accomplish this.
Re:should possible on any PC with sufficient hardw
by
Qwell
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· Score: 5, Informative
Not a whole lot keeps two X servers from running locally. I saw this howto at tldp.org a few months ago, and was very interested. It requires a kernel patch or two, but it seems very nice. http://tldp.org/HOWTO/XFree-Local-multi-user-HOWTO/
This is restricted to only two users, isn't portable across a network to other machines, requires rather specialized hardware, and will cost you money.
Oh yes, and let us not forget the BSOD!
Yup, I think that about covers it.
-- It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
It would seem to me that two users = twice as likely to crash.
And this is windows we're talking about. Imagine the downtime *shudders*
No thanks.
NOT a new concept...
by
i-Chaos
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· Score: 2, Informative
Many, many years ago, I came across an article in a Hong Kong magazine regarding a piece of software called "Betwin," which does the same thing. Googling will find you links like: Buddy and Another version called Buddy Betwin
Basically the same thing... Nothing new here, move on...
-- ...I am proof that intelligent beings are not always intelligent...
I have been trying to do this for ages...
by
lga
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· Score: 2, Interesting
...but I see no need for a special motherboard.
I have a laptop which obviously has it's own keyboard, trackpad and LCD - that's the first user. I also have a second monitor plugged in, and a USB keyboard and mouse. It seems to me that if the software could cope with it, a second person should be able to use the computer at the same time.
Unfortunately I haven't got the second monitor working under Linux, (crappy drivers from VIA) otherwise it would be simple to run another X server linked to the external devices. Windows runs the second monitor OK, but it doesn't have any way to run it independantly of the main user.
I have ended up using an old SGI Indigo to run programs on the laptop over X for the second user, which doesn't always work with modern X programs.
Ok, so it's per-seat. Is Visual C++ per seat, and what implications does this have for extreme programming?
Visual C++ is per seat. Extreme Programming is not alright. Extreme Programmers are pirates. They are an evil group of people who have figured out a way to get around our DRM. But it will not be tolerated. We are hard at work, finding a way to stop them, and force the people who leech off another user's terminal to pay up. Our current strategy is to make maximum font size in Windows 6 points. Then another person will not be able to read.
This will be a huge inconvenience for all of the people who don't engace in this dispicible practice. But all you pirates out there made us do it. I hope you're happy. And by the way, did I mention that what you are doing is stealing?
Sincerely,
I already did the same thing with plain old X-windows on a linux *LAPTOP*. Windows is so behind the times. (With X, you can define the two outputs of the video card (VGA out and the LCD screen) to be different screens altogether, and define one to use the laptop's keyboard and laptop's touchpad, and the other to use a usb keyboard and mouse, and violla, localhost:1.0 is user 1 on the laptop, and localhost:2.0 is user 2 using the usb keyboard, mouse, and the external VGA monitor.)
--
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Re:anybody done dual head linux?
by
gabebear
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It's a lot harder to get a dual consoled Linux desktop than a dual X-windows Linux Box.
If you want multiple consoles with seperate keyboards/mice, then you are looking for The Linux Console Project, I've never played with this
If you just want multiple X-Sessions running with sperate keyboards/mice, then you should just need to seperate all your keyboard, mice, and screens into sperate ServerLayout sections of your XF86Config-4 file. check here for documentation, This isn't actually all that hard.
Why not build this functionality into Windows itself? If you have a dual head video card already, isn't it feasable to have 2 sets of USB keyboards and mice, and tell the OS which device controls which monitor? Software alone can do this, so you could make a dual PC using any motherboard.
Re:anybody done dual head linux?
by
gabebear
·
· Score: 2, Informative
The HOWTO has a LOT of info that you can ignore, but there are quite a few gotcha's if you aren't aware of them. It is the most complete reference I know of for getting X-windows setup with 2 seperate heads.
I guess I should have said that it is pretty easy, given a few things.
You are running a 2.6 kernel (I am)
You are running Debian (I am), Debian unstable has an Xserver reaady for multiple X-heads, and no special issues
It was easy for me at least, I didn't patch a thing or install any extra software. It was mainly an issue of getting the input devices all setup correctly.
My setup:
Geforce4MX/USB Keyboard/USB Mouse
Matrox G200-TV/PS2 keyboard/serial Wacom tablet
I don't use it this way anymore, I now have it setup as a regular dual-head box again.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean UNIX did it!
I'm guessing not real well...
It's not IMPOSSIBLE to do, but I'm interested to see how they did it.
Offhand, the only ways I can think of are using Citrix or Terminal Server (on a server box).
Pretty neat though, none-the-less.
Terminal Services and Remote Desktop have been able to do this forever. Nothing new here.
I want to be able to use multiple computers via one user interface...
I wonder how licensing will work for software installed on such a computer.
Will software makers insist that multiple licenses be bought for software that will be used by two users simultaneously?
And speaking of things being equal, I feel a Grammar Raid coming on...
"Magic Twin looks like a pretty unique solution..." the article says. Why do people insist on qualifying the word unique? Something is either unique or it isn't. An object cannot be "somewhat unique" or "almost totally unique." The word means one of a kind, and without equal. Something either has equals or it doesn't.
Grammar Slammer Bammer slam Igor tomorrow, for sure!
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
from the review the units abilities"
1 PC can be used by 2 users at the same time
2 users can browse the internet, send and receive email at the same time
2 users can access all software installed on the PC at the same time (Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Data Base, games, etc.)
2 users can play games against each other with a dual-port VGA card
I know many softwares of mine have claims that only one person may use it on one machine at one time. What does this mean? If two Excels are loaded on the same machine at the same time where is the licensing happening? No check over network will find any but it's own self running when really it's running for another user anyway on the same machine and that would still end up being a violation of the licensing of a product.
MS would not be amused.
Thats a great idea. Never seen anything like it. I have similar problems. For example, while my sister visits barbie, I wouldn't get kicked off,we could both be on it and not know it. Playing two intensive games at once might not work though. Its a great idea. All I can say
Help Fight SPAM today!
How about the blonde who had one of these with a KVM switch to handle both screens?
The user of the windows box and the admin trying to fix it working together as one. I see it everyday.
Is it me, or is this returning to the days of dumb terminals? I think this is practical for some of the suggestions they had, ie. 2 children doing homework, but this is hardly a revolutionary idea.
What's it mean when there is an advertisment for the box being reviewed right beside the review?...
I do security
How will it know which virus to run first?
Slashdot sucks
what happends when you BSOD twice? Do they cancel each other out and the computer works again?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
These are nothing new. The PCBuddy has been around for a number of years. We don't pay much attention to this stuff in the USA because PC's and parts are cheap. These devices are popular in third world countries where resources are streched.
Two users on my PC at once? I already have this. Not only am I using it, but Bill Gates apparently has free range over the thing, as does Bonzi Buddy. I bet if I run AdAware, I'll find a half-dozen other unknowns sharing it with me as well!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
the PC model is kind of really not that good of an idea, all things concidered. I am sure those of who are network admins or some such at companies know that individual PCs on the desks of the employees is headache central.
Why not take the terminal server model into the homes? There would need to be only one machine, it could sit in the closet w/ the cable modem or whatever, out of the way. Perhaps with a CD changer or virtual disk mirrors to keep it from really needing to be accessed. Then there could be wireless heads around the house, one for each member of the family, say. Then everyone can use the computer at the same time and need only one copy of the OS, anti-virus, et cetera. It'd be a lot neater to handle.
Does the hard drive look seperate for each user? Or are they piggy-backing onto the Fast User Switching / Built-in Terminal Server feature of XP to provide user seperation?
The article is _light_ on detail for a five page pseudo-advertisement.
Fuck.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Betwin Buddy
Buddy betwin - Betwin B-680 - Enables 2 Users or more to share 1 PC
Sometimes one computer just isn't enough. With buddy betwin, you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on a second PC. This device lets you connect a second keyboard, mouse and monitor to your existing computer to create a second, fully functional PC. Share drives, printers, scanners, software, and even surf the Internet at the same time using only one modem, one telephone line and one Internet Service Provider account. Start taking full advantage of your computer's power! Every member of your household can be online simultaneously. You can track your investments while your spouse sends e-mail and your high-schooler downloads information for a homework assignment - all at the same time, and using just one Internet connection. It enables up to four additional users to share the computing power and resources of a single computer running Windows 2000 or XP. This is perfect for the home and small office. Simply install it into your computer and connect an additional monitor, keyboard and mouse. Windows ® will recognize all the devices automatically. Now you can do your work while the kids play their games!
Never got to use one. How did/didn't it work?
It's not unique. This has been around for more than a decade. I remember an add on card for sale in CompUSA that allowed this exact thing.
I never bought one, because I never had a need. But this is no unique, in so far as allowing to people to use the same box via a mouse and keyboard. It's kinda nice to see this functionality updated, but it's certianly not unique.
However, it leads to some legal question for software licenses.
Most EULA's say you can run "One instance of the software on ONE machine at a time" - how does this apply to this machine? If you run two instances of a software package on the same machine, are you in violation of the EULA? My gut reation is yes... but will they really care?
Depends. If it's not popular, this obviously won't be inforced, but if this is something that becomes more popular, will we start to see software that won't let you run multiple instances of it at once?
The article says you can play head to head VGA games against each other... but how does that work if you're only running one instance, or are you running two instances?
This just doesn't seem all that practical for game playing. For productivity apps, though, this could be killer for cube rats. IT could deploy one machine for two cubes, cutting your hardware budget, and support in half!
Lots of questions, both technical and legal need to be worked out before this could really take off. Couple that with the fact that previous attempts at this didn't seem to fly, for whatever reason, it makes me wonder if this isn't already a dead technology.
... that's got to be a bargain!
It appears that it doesn't even do the dual user function out of the box
From the article "What Do You Need for a Twin PC?.... Dual Head VGA - the 860Twin comes with just a single VGA connector, so you must add a Dual Head VGA card for Twin PC operation."
So I would buy this box, then have to immediatly buy a new graphics card, thus making the one it came with useless?
Hard to see the advantages of this thing outweighing two seperate machines.
redune.com: The World 3.2 Megapixels at a time
It's a legit comment you mod-nazis... They plainly push the fact that you can play head-to-head games if you get a dual-port VGA card... It doesn't do much good to tout that as a selling point if the games play like shit!
this was an ad.
not a single thing was said about how it works. How does the 2nd keyboard direct its keystrokes to the 2nd display ? Is the 2nd display an RDP client, or is it a 2nd monitor of window session 0 ? Are the two users running as different XP logins ? what does the magic twin software do ? new keyboard driver ? new mouse driver ? new audio driver ?
Without knowing how this thing works, it's a non article.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
Linx? Uniux? Those aren't operating systems. You're just making this up now!
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a mini version of a mainframe w/terminals? Maybe that's the next trend in computing, one PC per household, with multiple terminals for each family member!
;)
First we have unix on mainframes, then Windows on PCs, and now we're moving back to Unix on mainframes again...
..use this? Be compiling and what not on one side, running the compiled code or working on writing on the other? Seems like one practical use. Or having one of the sides be for casually being on the net, while the other side is more open in admin mode for working, or are they both as vulnerable?
no, didn't RTA.
Applica have been doing this for a bit, they also sell 4-station cards so that 5 users can share one PC!
It wasn't enough to steal Windows from Xerox. Now they have to go and steal ideas from *nix. Hasn't that been standard in *nix environments for awhile?
Does this mean that when purchasing a Windows liscense users will now have to decide whether or not the need a liscence and a half? Or just the single.
Oh I'll have the single please. And crack it later
What will this do to Grandma and Grandpa computer user? Imagine your grandparents out getting their first PC.
The technobable alone is staggering.
I know what you are thinking, "not me I'm the uber geek".
Well think back to your first box, how much did you know?
Chances are older consumers purchasing new systems, some for the first time, may be frightened off or taken advantage of.
Microsoft needs to stop. How much money is enough?
I have an idea for Microsofts new business model.
Do one thing.
Do it well.
You guys already have the world by the short n curlies.
Besides when the rest of the world realizes that there are Linux distros out there for less than half the cost of a Windows liscnse, they will switch.
As for me, I've had enough B$ from M$.
THANK YOU!
Mr. Torvalds
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
A real solution, that's already been mentioned here, is having one Linux box and setting up multiple desktops with VNC. That's if you absolutely must combine your systems or want to have apps installed on one setup. You can have as many dumb terminals as you want hooked into that machine.
Making a machine multi-user is a software problem not a hardware one and this idea will FAIL.
Page 8 tells you to turn off the system standby in XP's power management. Guess they don't have that working well. But they do warn the second user if the first user decides to shut down the system.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
There are already a few misguided posts on the matter so hopefully, I can clear this up for you.
Microsoft and many other software makers already address this licensing issue. On this machine Microsoft requires either two licenses for Windows or one Windows license and a Terminal Server Client Access license. For MS Office a license is required for each per seat instance. SO, two users in Word requires two licenses.
This same licensing system is also required by many/most other commercial vendors. Anyone familiar with Terminal services or Citrix should be familiar with this licensing model. If they aren't Microsoft will enjoy speaking with them.
Actually sun's SunBlade 2500 workstation can be used by two users simoultaneously, with two keyboards and two graphics boards sharing resources! (Solaris 9 and up only)
Would it be possible for 1 user to run windows, while the other user runs linux?
You could use VMWare. But you'd probably be better off running Windows on top of Linux to accomplish this.
Not a whole lot keeps two X servers from running locally. I saw this howto at tldp.org a few months ago, and was very interested. It requires a kernel patch or two, but it seems very nice.O /
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/XFree-Local-multi-user-HOWT
As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
I thought with the usual Microsoft security holes that Windows users already had people sharing their PC.
Yes! that's my 100th attempt at Karma whoring! Thank you, thank you!
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
In short, see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/multiuser/for the XFree86 patches.
I have this working (and working quite well) with the following hardware configuration:
Asus A7V600 in an Antec Sonata case
AMD Barton 2500+, 1GB RAM
3 40GB ATA disks
First user:
Matrox AGP G450 dual, with two heads, using Xinerama, PS/2 keyboard and rodent
Second user:
ATI Radeon 7000 PCI, one head, and with a USB keyboard and rodent
(OS is Fedora Core 1, with a patched X server)
It's fast, stable, quiet (the Sonata is a really nice case), and environmentally friendly (half the power, solid waste, etc. of having two PCs)
The only real issue is that switching sound between the two 'sides' is currently manual (either plug/unplug speakers, or a switchbox, or a splitter)
ERROR: Null
Ummm, what's the difference?
This is restricted to only two users, isn't portable across a network to other machines, requires rather specialized hardware, and will cost you money.
Oh yes, and let us not forget the BSOD!
Yup, I think that about covers it.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
It would seem to me that two users = twice as likely to crash.
And this is windows we're talking about. Imagine the downtime *shudders*
No thanks.
Many, many years ago, I came across an article in a Hong Kong magazine regarding a piece of software called "Betwin," which does the same thing. Googling will find you links like:
Buddy and Another version called Buddy Betwin
Basically the same thing...
Nothing new here, move on...
...I am proof that intelligent beings are not always intelligent...
...but I see no need for a special motherboard.
I have a laptop which obviously has it's own keyboard, trackpad and LCD - that's the first user. I also have a second monitor plugged in, and a USB keyboard and mouse. It seems to me that if the software could cope with it, a second person should be able to use the computer at the same time.
Unfortunately I haven't got the second monitor working under Linux, (crappy drivers from VIA) otherwise it would be simple to run another X server linked to the external devices. Windows runs the second monitor OK, but it doesn't have any way to run it independantly of the main user.
I have ended up using an old SGI Indigo to run programs on the laptop over X for the second user, which doesn't always work with modern X programs.
A latent existence
What do your licenses say about them?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Visual C++ is per seat. Extreme Programming is not alright. Extreme Programmers are pirates. They are an evil group of people who have figured out a way to get around our DRM. But it will not be tolerated. We are hard at work, finding a way to stop them, and force the people who leech off another user's terminal to pay up. Our current strategy is to make maximum font size in Windows 6 points. Then another person will not be able to read.
This will be a huge inconvenience for all of the people who don't engace in this dispicible practice. But all you pirates out there made us do it. I hope you're happy. And by the way, did I mention that what you are doing is stealing? Sincerely,
Craig Mundie
Microsoft
I already did the same thing with plain old X-windows on a linux *LAPTOP*. Windows is so behind the times. (With X, you can define the two outputs of the video card (VGA out and the LCD screen) to be different screens altogether, and define one to use the laptop's keyboard and laptop's touchpad, and the other to use a usb keyboard and mouse, and violla, localhost:1.0 is user 1 on the laptop, and localhost:2.0 is user 2 using the usb keyboard, mouse, and the external VGA monitor.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Why not build this functionality into Windows itself? If you have a dual head video card already, isn't it feasable to have 2 sets of USB keyboards and mice, and tell the OS which device controls which monitor? Software alone can do this, so you could make a dual PC using any motherboard.
SproutWorks Software Design
I guess I should have said that it is pretty easy, given a few things.
- You are running a 2.6 kernel (I am)
- You are running Debian (I am), Debian unstable has an Xserver reaady for multiple X-heads, and no special issues
It was easy for me at least, I didn't patch a thing or install any extra software. It was mainly an issue of getting the input devices all setup correctly.My setup:
- Geforce4MX/USB Keyboard/USB Mouse
- Matrox G200-TV/PS2 keyboard/serial Wacom tablet
I don't use it this way anymore, I now have it setup as a regular dual-head box again.