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Power Over Ethernet for AirPort Base Station

Posted by pudge on from the now-we-just-need-power-over-wifi dept.

An anonymous user writes, "With Apple's recent announcements I took a quick stroll through some other items on the site and noticed that there's now a third AirPort Extreme Base Station. This model, at the same price as the model with modem and antenna ports, does not have a built-modem, however it does have an antenna port, supports Power Over Ethernet, and conforms to UL 2043. Great news for those that have wished they could put their Base Stations out of reach of a power outlet."

75 comments

  1. $300!?! by n-baxley · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I hadn't checked out the airports before. They want $300 for this?! $200 for the basic one. I can get an 802.11g for half this price although granted it won't have the spiffy case, but who cares? Is there something else great about this that would make me crazy enough to buy this?

    --

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
    1. Re:$300!?! by lxt · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Is there something else great about this that would make me crazy enough to buy this?"

      It's white! Just like the iPod!

    2. Re:$300!?! by phobokleon · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have one of the 200 dollar models, and there are a couple of reasons. 1st is they work with appletalk. Most third party wireless products don't. 2nd They act as a wireless print server. Given that stand alone wireless print servers run ~$150, this is a big deal. Access point, print server and full mac compatibility for $200, modem for those without broadband for $250. I'd Say that all together its not a bad deal. Like may thinks mac, the total cost seems high, but to get equal functionality elsewhere, the cost runs almost the same. The only complaint would be they don't sell an access point only model for 100 to 150 dollars.

    3. Re:$300!?! by larkost · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree that it is a bit expensive, but if you start to look at the specs a bit better, you will understand more:

      USB Printer Sharing Built in

      A good antenna (optional external antenna hookup also)

      One model has a built in modem with AOL Compatibility (the only one out there)

      An application based admin interface both for Windows and Mac

      Like I said.. they are still a bit expensive, but not as much as as it first appears. Much like most of Apple's products.

    4. Re:$300!?! by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 4, Informative


      It's the only one with AOL compatibility, I believe. If you care, which you probably don't, but someone might. Other advantages someone else lists below, like printer sharing, phone-home modem (so you can call your computer from the road (which others don't have, I don't think?)).

      I have to admit, as much as an Apple fanboi as I am, I don't even have an Apple Base Station; I went for an Xsense router, since it gave me a 4 port switch for cheaper.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    5. Re:$300!?! by b-baggins · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Airport Base Stations also BRIDGE the wireless to wired connections. Most wireless routers do not bridge.

      Bridging is essential if you want Rendezvous to work properly between your wired and wireless machines.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
    6. Re:$300!?! by Sillypuddy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I have the Linksys AP before I brought the airport base station and I thought the same thing.. what am I paying for..

      the coolest is the fact that software to administrate the basestation, setting up keys, etc is built in OS X, the program to update the firmware is built into OS X and the base station shares the printer via rendezvous.. it's awesome compare to the generic Linksys AP

      -joe

    7. Re:$300!?! by IvanXQZ · · Score: 2, Informative

      They've never really come down in price -- the original AirPort was $300, and it was a year before anything comparable was beneath $1000. After that first AirPort (man was that great) I have only bought sub-$100 routers, but I generally recommend AirPorts to Mac-based (or mixed-platform) clients, because they just work and are easier to configure than web-client based routers if you are running Mac OS X.

      It also has some unique features, which admittedly I don't use often, but: There is the ability for multiple AirPorts to represent themselves as a single access point by linking together *wirelessly* to create a Wireless Distribution System (this is cool, believe me). The modem model can be a standalone dial-in PPP server to your LAN. The WAN port is autosensing, so it can be attached to any type of jack. It has a software control to be a dumb access point (bridges wireless to ethernet, no DHCP or NAT). The modem makes a nice fallback for the LAN if the DSL goes out. If you've got a Mac, firmware updates are announced and delievered periodically, and with these sometimes come new features. Also for Mac users, WPA and WEP passwords are handled seamlessly.

      There's probably no reason for a tech-savvy person to buy it except maybe for WDS or PPP. But for a non-techie Mac user who wants it to Just Work, and knows where to go/call if it doesn't, it's a sure bet.

    8. Re:$300!?! by Moofie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And there are so many anti-Mac users out there, that even when Apple designs a pretty damn good product, that's well-engineered and well designed, that somebody just wants it to be cheap cheap cheap. If it's Apple, it must be a gyp.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    9. Re:$300!?! by extra88 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bridging isn't that big a deal anymore. All I did with my cheap Netgear MR814 is turn off its DHCP server and plug my uplink into a LAN port instead of the WAN port. Voila, my wired and wireless clients are on the same subnet and see each other, no problem (yes, I use a separate box as my cable/dsl router + DHCP).

      What the ABS can do that many of the cheaper access points can't do is bridging between two wireless access points. Still, you don't have have to spend $300 for that feature either, we boughts a couple of D-Link DWL-2000AP's for ~$85 each.

      This new Apple Enterprise software could be good though, usually you have to get pricy Cisco equipment of the like for centralized management of access points.

    10. Re:$300!?! by b-baggins · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rendezvous will not work in your setup, so your solution is useless for environments that require Rendezvous.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
    11. Re:$300!?! by extra88 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Speaking as someone who is in my setup, I can tell you that Rendezvous does work. I am sorry that stating that the clients can "see each other" did not make that clear.

      Here's a little picture of my network, the mini-hub is connected to one of the Netgear's 4 LAN ports. Yes, the mini-hub is usually extraneous, I could connect the NAT/DHCPd to the Netgear and the wired clients to the Netgear but sometimes I have more than 3 wired clients I like that I can remove the Netgear without disrupting anything except the wireless clients.
      cable modem
      |
      |
      NAT/DHCPd server
      |
      |
      mini-hub--wired client
      |
      |
      Netgear - - - wireless client
    12. Re:$300!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously you don't know anything about networking to make such a moronic comment.

    13. Re:$300!?! by prockcore · · Score: 1


      Bridging is essential if you want Rendezvous to work properly between your wired and wireless machines.

      Woah, what? Rendezvous won't route, but it'll pass through a switch no problem. My linksys 802.11b AP+4port switch handles rendezvous just fine between wireless and the guys plugged into the switch.

    14. Re:$300!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a good antenna (one not using the external one)? erm, no. have you tried using that model in different settings, floor levels? it's a pain in the ass. i'd rather have a linksys with pointable antennas anyday.

    15. Re:$300!?! by gabebear · · Score: 1

      The real value for me in Apple's Access Points is that you are getting a great Cisco WAP for a lot less, Cisco's radio's have some of the best sensitivity around. Add a nice antenna to a Apple WAP and you have one of the best WAPs you can buy.

    16. Re:$300!?! by gabebear · · Score: 1
      Most base-stations that can bridge wired networks can't be used as a base-station at the same time, the DWL-2000AP can't. The ABS is pretty darn amazing and flexible.
      • Cisco radio
      • bridge/AP at same time
      • built in print server
      • AOL compatable modem($250)
      • can use nice antennas without mod($250/$300)
      • built-in POE($300 one)
      It is one of the best WAPs you can get for the price. You can pick up a refurb of the $250 one for $200 at the Apple store.
  2. Also announced by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Also announced today was AirPort Management Tools 1.0, which provide powerful tools for planning, setting up, fine-tuning, and managing larger, enterprise-class wireless networks. Both of these announcements aren't targeted towards the home user; they don't do Power-over-Ethernet, nor have to manage lots of AirPort Base Stations.

    With this plus the other things today, it sounds like Apple is starting to get serious about the Big Enterprise. WWDC could be really intersting.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    1. Re:Also announced by grEchelonSurge · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure whether this is a good move for Apple (moving into the Big Enterprise market), Johnny.

      Last time they tried this was with the Quadra series, and the LaserWriters, and they didn't fare so well.

      Businesses are interested in the cheapest solution available, not necessarily the best technology. That's why you see $150 machines instead of iMacs being used for workstations.

    2. Re:Also announced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AirPort for the "serious enterprise"? Apple users, you collectively crack me up!

  3. I'm waiting until... by lxt · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...power over wireless ethernet. Now that would be good... ...A man can dream :)

    1. Re:I'm waiting until... by skarth · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, I though you were dead!

    2. Re:I'm waiting until... by leperkuhn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ah yes, lightning. Can't wait for that.

      --
      http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
    3. Re:I'm waiting until... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Just put up a lightning rod.

    4. Re:I'm waiting until... by jabex · · Score: 1

      Now introducing the Apple Tesla Coil. Common!

      Tesla + Apple = Unstoppable Power!

      --
      Like Teddy with an elephant gun.
    5. Re:I'm waiting until... by zhenlin · · Score: 1

      Ah, Microwave power transmission... You can get electricity and get cooked (almost) at the same time...

  4. while we're on the topic... by ubiquitin · · Score: 1

    What are some good PoE [power over ethernet] power sources? Soekris has some similar boards and I remember wondering when I read about them about how you'd go about setting up the "P" part of PoE. Wiring diagrams would be helpful too, as it would really suck to send 12V down the wire into these devices.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
    1. Re:while we're on the topic... by MrChuck · · Score: 1
      Well, if you want diagrams, you'll have to work google for about 2 seconds.

      For 10BaseT and 100baseTX (and not GigE), 2 pairs of 4 are used for data. The specs for RJ45 Ethernet allowed for the other pair to be used by PHONES (1 or 2 pair, I suppose perhaps Lucent type digital phones might use 2 pair) without conflict.

      Lots of places (eg. schools with wiring already run, cheap offices, etc) break out a cat5 to be 2 ethernets.

      Cisco's spec allows for 48VDC (think "telco" and bank of batteries with that number). 2 extra wires are ground, 2 extra carry power (-48vdc according to spec, but...)

      My soekris accepts 12-56VDC on Eth0. higher voltage means lower amperage which means smaller wires and voltage drop over distance is less of an issue (if your wire drops 5V over a couple hundred feet, that matters a lot at 12V and little at 56V).

      That said, doing PoE for an airport has been SIMPLE forever with a BOX or hacked cable. (box better). 2 RJ45s, you pass the ethernet pairs from one to the other and the other pair to a DC jack. You'd use one to introduct power, but you can just as easily pull the power out at the end and pass it to an old airport/linksys/ dlink/netgear AP via the DC in plug.

      Leviton makes Quickport boxes that will do 2 RJ45s. Mr Drill puts the hole in for a regular DC plug of choice. It's a project doable in 10 minutes while watching a movie.

      For the soekris, I'm using a 24VDC adapter I had (from an old old modem or laptop or something).

      The Soekris (4521) uses 12 watts. Lets call it 1A @ 12V. That's 0.25A at 48VDC. Cisco's wall warts are 48VDC @ 0.5A. My solar panels are each 48VDC @ 4A. Pick one (I use one that also works at night).

  5. Ethernet power rating by andy55 · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Wow--I didn't even know power support was built in to the ethernet spec. Anyone know the power capacity of the spec and any related details?

    --
    G-Force music visualization
    1. Re:Ethernet power rating by nadda · · Score: 5, Informative

      802.3af specifies 48V. Google for specs.

    2. Re:Ethernet power rating by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

      Conveniently the same as Phantom power! Now you can power all that phantom gear off ethernet! Now if only Audio Over Ethernet went mainstream...

    3. Re:Ethernet power rating by MouseR · · Score: 1

      Our Cisco IP phone at the office use powered E-Net, and 48V it is. Also serves as a network hub.

    4. Re:Ethernet power rating by zhenlin · · Score: 1

      There is only one protocol for this: RFC 3251 -- Electricity over IP.

    5. Re:Ethernet power rating by (C)0N0(R) · · Score: 1

      I have used power over ethernet often, AT&T/Lucent Merlin/Legend systems use similar.

      A number of Access Point manufacturers (Lucent, Symbol) are now offering Power over Ethernet add-on's for their Access Points. A PoE module inserts DC voltage into the unused wires in a standard ethernet cable (pairs 7-8 and 4-5) from: http://www.nycwireless.net/poe/

      --
      The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.
  6. UL 2043? by System.out.println() · · Score: 5, Funny

    UL 2043: "Fire Test for Heat and Visible Smoke Release for Discrete Products and Their Accessories Installed in Air-Handling Spaces" ....so my new AirPort base has a smoke detector inside it? Why don't they build that into the new Powerbooks? ;-)

    SYSTEM ERROR #43: MOTHERBOARD ON FIRE.

    --
    I've got more mod points and GMail invi
    1. Re:UL 2043? by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 5, Funny
      UL 2043: "Fire Test for Heat and Visible Smoke Release for Discrete Products and Their Accessories Installed in Air-Handling Spaces" ....so my new AirPort base has a smoke detector inside it? Why don't they build that into the new Powerbooks? ;-)

      It means you can shove an airport base station into an air duct without violating safety codes.

      SYSTEM ERROR #43: MOTHERBOARD ON FIRE.
      From Ward's Wiki:
      The BeOS programmer's guide covers two functions IsComputerOn (returns 1.0 if computer is on, unspecified otherwise) and IsComputerOnFire (returns temperature if mainboard has flames coming from it, unspecified otherwise). It's right there in the printed version (though I quote from memory).
      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
    2. Re:UL 2043? by SkywalkerOS8 · · Score: 1
      I thought that this guy had to be full of it, but I happen to have the Be Developer's Guide (ISBN: 1-56592-287-5) on my desk so I looked it up and it's true, though not entirely accurate. On Page 802, in Chapter 5: The Kernel Kit, there is a system info function documented as:
      is_computer_on_fire()
      double is_computer_on_fire(void)
      Returns the temperature of the motherboard if the computer is currently on fire. Smoldering doesn't count. If the computer isn't on fire, the function returns some other value.
  7. Power over ethernet? by kekeruusperi · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow, and I thought RFC 3251 was just a joke!

    1. Re:Power over ethernet? by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Well, you know, given what Apple has done for USB and FireWire, you had to figure that they'd be pushing the bar for electricity over IP.

      Unfortunately, I now have unrealistically high expectations for the iPigeon.

      --
      -Rob
      Marriage doesn't have to suck!
  8. External Antenna Port Worthwhile? by tbmaddux · · Score: 2, Informative
    I have an AEBS with no antenna port and no modem port. It is located on the 2nd floor of my house. My coverage downstairs is not as good as I would like. I have considered getting a new base station plus a Dr. Bott omni to give me better range, but some discussion on the Apple forums has given me pause, and this guide from VonWentzel implies that a +dbi antenna will only give me more range in certain directions. So it would appear that the "omni" will give me better range while I'm on the 2nd floor of my home but poorer range/reception when I am above or below my base station.

    Has anyone else tried these external antennae, and if so, has it resulted in better or worse signal when above or below the base station, compared to using an AEBS with no external antenna connection?

    --
    Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
    1. Re:External Antenna Port Worthwhile? by kencurry · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have an original graphite station. I added a lucent external antenna (I don't remember the specs, maybe a 5dB boost?) that required a "case hack" I saw posted somewhere. In may case, the antenna plugs directly into the embedded PCMCIA card. the addition did boost performance for me, but I still found that some areas downstairs remained spotty.

      I noticed that the Dr. Bott is more expensive than the lucent. To be honest, I think you will be disappointed to spend a hundred bucks and find only marginal improvement.

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    2. Re:External Antenna Port Worthwhile? by mattkime · · Score: 1

      I noticed that the Dr. Bott is more expensive than the lucent. To be honest, I think you will be disappointed to spend a hundred bucks and find only marginal improvement.

      Been there, done that. 5dB boost is about all you'll get out of most base stations. For me, the cheap boosters at radioshack worked as well as the $100 antenna i ordered.

      --
      Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
  9. POWER Over Ethernet by jareds · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are you absolutely sure it supports power over ethernet?

  10. What could be useful... by grahamtriggs · · Score: 2, Interesting


    I notice that the USB port is disabled when using POE... which kind of got me thinking - there are more uses for a USB port than attaching printer... how about a model that allows you to connect a cable/DSL modem via USB (many of the modems given away only have USB connections).

  11. O/T: Necromancy by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've definitely been reading /. too long. The `and raise you a BSD.' part in your sig had me thinking of necromancy.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  12. 802.11 by peu · · Score: 4, Funny

    What do we need for power over 802.11 ? Tesla coils?

    --

    NEOCA - Custom LED Flashlights
    1. Re:802.11 by zhenlin · · Score: 1

      Microwave power transmission. Network wirelessly, cook you[r food], transmit power -- is there anything Microwaves can't do?

  13. I'm waiting for... by psyconaut · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...power over 802.11!!!!!

    -psy

    1. Re:I'm waiting for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      That would be 802.11p.

      But it will take some time, because at the moment were at 802.11g.

    2. Re:I'm waiting for... by psyconaut · · Score: 1

      LOL! ;-)

      Tesla would be turning in his grave...

      -psy

  14. :) Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Power over Ethernet...

    Many people are trying to transmit data over power cables. However this PoE is reverse idea. :)
    Intersting...
    Which one would be better?

  15. wow... Story copied word for word by acomj · · Score: 3, Informative

    see http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/.. For the original email this was posted from.. No wonder it was done anon...

  16. Value of Airport Base Station by reidconti · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had a snow ABS I bought for $300.

    Used it for a year and a half

    sold it for $180 on ebay, bought a linksys for $60.

    The linksys just sucks. Apple's hardware simply works way better. You get what you pay for.

    Sticking with the linksys because I don't feel like laying down the cash for the ABS, but I should have just kept the Airport originally..

    1. Re:Value of Airport Base Station by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 2, Informative
      Weird! I bought a linksys wireless base station and I thought it was the best piece of hardware I ever bought. The easiest to install and administer. I'd say it's the only piece of hardware I've ever bought that I can't really fault. No drivers to install. I just plugged it into my network at home, I did a tiny bit of config to give it my DSL password, and it worked.

      The airport base station must be *really* good. (Saying that proves I don't work for Linksys :-)

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    2. Re:Value of Airport Base Station by hrbrmstr · · Score: 3, Informative

      The WRT54G model, once re-flashed with some of the very feature-rich firmware produced by the open source community has been a rock-solid, problem-free device.

      I would love to be able to spend the money on an apple airport base station, but *this* model Linksys works for me. I can see where an all-Mac home/shop or even a small, multi-platform environment might want to go with easy-to-manage Apple WLAN equipment, tho.

      Now, the older, 802.11b AP's from Linksys were not worth the plastic case they came in, so if you're comparing the Apple equipment to those, Apple is definitely worth the price premium.

      --
      Mind the gap...
    3. Re:Value of Airport Base Station by MrChuck · · Score: 1
      I bought a soekris 4521 and put a card in it. Cost me ~$340 for all that. Got a 16MB CF, put OpenBSD on it (readonly) and it's the basestation. Which runs ssh. And snmpd. And a web server. And nagios (kinda, I store to a ramdisk, so reboots kill history - every 100 days).

      Same CPU as the airport.

      picked up a 4801 and have 802.11g for THAT one (so freebsd). Boot from (readonly) CF, but put an old kinda iffy 12G laptop drive in it. Later on, I have to move a 160GB USB/Firewire drive so I can put THAT on it and have it NFS serve the mp3s.

      Did I mention that it's my always on computer and right now has no fans, makes no noise and draws ~15watts? With the slow disk, buildworld takes several hours (over NFS it's far more).

      Now why would you have an airport you can't log into?

  17. why there isn't USB with PoE by grocer · · Score: 1

    PoE and UL 2043 are for an above a drop ceiling type install (with only an ethernet connection being required)...as USB has active power in the connector, this is a Bad Thing to have on if the fire suppression system goes off, since there there would be an Airport Extreme Base Station electricifying pooling water (potentially)

    1. Re:why there isn't USB with PoE by thebigmacd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't overlook the fact that there are many many 120v receptacles at shin level. The USB port is mostly disabled because PoE wouldn't be able to provide the specified 2.5W to the USB port.

    2. Re:why there isn't USB with PoE by grocer · · Score: 1

      to the best of my knowledge (being an estimator by trade), cables must be raced and open electrical receptacles are not allowed...fire stopping regulations also come into play...

    3. Re:why there isn't USB with PoE by thebigmacd · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's not what I am saying...receptacles have slots in them you know, otherwise they wouldn't receive anything. Last time I checked most institutional rooms (except hospitals and labs) don't have all GFI circuits as standard. My point is that most people wouldn't keep the station on the floor; the water would have to 2.5 feet deep which would cause problems much more significant than some exposed USB port.

      I highly doubt that the USB port isn't disabled because of flooding potential...5 volts @ 500mA max is going to do how much damage? Compare with the fact that water that floods the USB port is also going to flood the station itself, which would contact the water.

      Etc. Etc.

      It's as simple as power requirements.

  18. No joke by useosx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is dead serious.

    1. Re:No joke by System.out.println() · · Score: 1

      Ouch.... it hurts just looking at it.... >.

      --
      I've got more mod points and GMail invi
    2. Re:No joke by dave1212 · · Score: 1

      A fake, lifted from a guy's site that does photoshop stuff. You can tell if you look closely.

      site is here;

      His stuff is really very good on some of it.

    3. Re:No joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know dana pretty well. She'd make a funny looking guy

      And there's no WAY she did that burnt powerbook

    4. Re:No joke by rebeka+thomas · · Score: 1

      It came out on another forum I'm on that the burnt powerbook photo is nothing but a photoshopped fabrication, made by a Mac user who specialises in photo manips.

      --
      RST
  19. Not $300 but $249 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You should check the price before you complain.
    Though you can still get a generic 54g basestation for less, they do not have the same performace or features:

    Radius Server Compatibiliry
    Excellent & Stable WPA implementation
    Built-in 56k modem with Dial in Access
    USB Print Server (with Rendezvous)
    WPA Bridging (Best i've seen so far)
    Roaming
    Inteference Robustness (Frequency Hopping)
    Antenna Output Power Control

    I set up wireless system for a living and i even use the AE Basetations for my PC customers. Not only are the features are better, the IMPLEMENTATION is far more stable. Firmware Updates are so much easier to apply.

    1. Re:Not $300 but $249 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I meant to say WDS Wireless Distribution System

  20. Anyone know when apple will allow WDS with WPA by adrianm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Currently I can only use Wireless Distribution System (WDS) with WEP not WPA. WDS was one of the major selling points for me with the Airport. I would love to move to WPA, I sort of assumed that the client portion of the WDS code would need to be updated to be WPA capable.

    Adrian

  21. The page is 404 by stere0 · · Score: 1

    Neither a search on apple's site nor a google search found anything.

    --
    Trollem mirabilem hanc subnotationis exigiutas non caperet
    1. Re:The page is 404 by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1


      It's apparently been pulled, or is a screw up.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
  22. Re:Airport sounds cool, by idsofmarch · · Score: 1

    People buy Mac to get away from Microsoft and their kludge of an operating system. And there are thousands of titles out for the Macintosh, just maybe not what you're interested in. Also, Apple is the name of the company and the Macintosh or Mac is the name of the product. Why do I have the distinct feeling I'm feeding a troll?

    --
    Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.