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There Must be a Pony in Here Somewhere

Alex Moskalyuk writes "It was supposed to be a deal of the millennium. When it was leaked to the media from the highest ranks of America Online, the journalists wanted a second source. It was just too incredible to believe, too likely to be a prank. AOL was merging with Time Warner with the terms of the deal making it more of a buyout than an equal merger. In truly Orwellian fashion, two corporations decided to treat one another as equals, although executives of newly formed AOLTW somehow always referred to the AOL part as "innovative" and thus leading into the future, while the TW was "old media" with that implies. Read on for Alex's review of a book about how that deal came to be, as well as its aftermath. There must be a pony in here somewhere author Kara Swisher pages 320 publisher Crown Business rating 6/10 reviewer Alex Moskalyuk ISBN 1400049636 summary The AOL Time Warner debacle and the quest for the digital future

Kara Swisher's There Must be a Pony in Here Somewhere is subtitled "The AOL Time Warner debacle and the quest for the digital future." Debacle is not an over-exaggeration, as the chapters of the book unveil personal, professional, corporate and political dramas happening during the so-called merger. A reporter for The Wall Street Journal, Swisher knows many AOL executives personally, and according to her stories, frequently engaged in lively conversations conducted where else but in AOL Instant Messenger, available on PCs of top management and board members as the preferred means of communication.

The title of the book takes roots from a famous joke, attributed to Ronald Reagan, where a hopeful boy is dealing with a large pile of manure. When asked why he is so insistent about digging the pile with such enthusiasm, the boy replies that with such a pile there "must be a pony in there somewhere." If you read the press lately and followed AOLTW's stock ride, you probably know that the pony wasn't quite there.

It's amazing how many optimistic forecasts and wide smiles were presented to the press and general public on the day of the merger and long after it. The word "synergy" could qualify for the most popular noun of the year, used by AOL executives almost in every sentence.

As Swisher writes on page 18, "Most people involved in the deal seem to be suffering from a peculiar amnesia now, so it's easy to forget that kind of hype and optimism. Today, almost everyone near to this toxic merger runs screaming from it in an attempt to avoid any culpability. The denials come fast and furious: Not me. I wasn't involved. I thought it was wrong from the very beginning. And - most of all - Steve Case is a big, fat loser. This was always more familiar territory for me, since that was exactly how most of the world regarded Case throughout his career. For most of it, he had always and forever been a loser."

Well, you can tell that the author is not sucking up to AOL's ex-CEO.

Swisher's book is extremely personal. Unless you've been involved in AOL or Time Warner personally, you are probably not aware of the company's management. At the time, when executives of Yahoo, eBay and other Silicon Valley startups weren't just visionaries, they were cool, AOL's top management was rather bland and plain. They weren't the cool guys, they were just managing some dial-up ISP in Dulles, VA that somehow took over the United States with its goofy icons, goofy commercials, goofy sounds and likewise membership. The author takes you through the personalities of top managers, talks about the AOL-TW off-standish behavior towards one another, questionable deal and threatening techniques used by David Colburn and AOL's Business Affairs department.

The book is easy to read and is full of interesting details. For example, the day when the deal was announced, there was another company discussing potential merger with AOL. But since everyone was involved on Time Warner deal that was supposed to be "huge," Meg Whitman and eBay crew got almost no attention from America Online, with executives constantly leaving the room and portraying an attention span of five-year-olds. Perhaps if some executives paid more attention to eBay and discuss potential buyout, the Internet would look different nowadays.

Otherwise, the book looks like a classic business study on how failures happen and what to avoid when you are faced with the task of running world's largest media outfit. It's an easy and pleasant read, informative as well as entertaining. Don't expect technical details from it in regards to AOL's operations, load balancing and nationwide dial-up network, since Swisher's main audience is business types and readers interested in details behind the "deal of the millennium". The first chapter of the book is available online on New York Times Web site.

You can read more of Alex's reviews of business and technology titles. You can purchase There Must be a Pony in Here Somewhere from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, carefully read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

199 comments

  1. Why 6/10? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just read through the review and I just thought I'd point out that this may be the first time I've seen a review here get a rating below 7. And was the reason it wasn't given a higher rating because it wasn't quite what the reviewer expected? I thought of that after reading: "Don't expect technical details from it in regards to AOL's operations"

    1. Re:Why 6/10? by prostoalex · · Score: 3, Informative

      6 out of 10 is "okay" in my book. If I like it and want to re-read it some time later, it's probably 8-9. If it's outstanding, it's 10. 6 means "pretty good, room for improvement" as my English professor would say.

    2. Re:Why 6/10? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 out of 10 is "okay" in my book

      Maybe in your book, but not according to the Slashdot Book Rating System.

      Less than 9: Terrible book. Avoid like the plague.
      9: Average book. Read it only if you are particularly interested in the subject.
      Greater than 9: Good book. Definitely read it.

    3. Re:Why 6/10? by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My old physics teacher once told us a story about how his mathy brain fails to mesh with the rest of the world. He had cable installed. The repairman came in, got him up and running, and left. About a week later, the cable company sent in a survey asking him how the repairman did.

      He thought, "Okay, the scale is 1-10, meaning 5 should be around average. I think I got better than average service." Then he proceeded to fill the survey with 7's and 8's.

      A couple more weeks go by, and he gets a call from the cable company, apologizing for the poor customer service he received and asking if there was anything they could do to make him feel better.

      I'm not totally sure I remember the punchline correctly. However, I think after about forty minutes of trying to explain why "7" wasn't a bad thing under a normal gaussian distribution, he broke down and asked for a month of free cable just to end the phone call.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    4. Re:Why 6/10? by TrentL · · Score: 1

      I get the same thing whenever I bring in my Mazda for a checkup. The repairmen always beg me to fill out the corporate survey with all 10's. If it's not all 10's, they get in trouble or something. It's a good way to get great service ;)

    5. Re:Why 6/10? by Kphrak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Giving a score, and then completely invalidating it by demanding perfection in it, is used by a lot of organizations. It perfectly captures the underlying evil behind managerial "rah rah we're a team and we're the best" thinking.

      Kia Motors does this. When you buy a car or get service, you're warned to give full marks (10/10) across the board if you want the guy who changed your oil to keep his job. In fact, although Kia calls you independently to get the scores, if you give anything under 10, the desk operator will ask you, "Do you really want to do this? The person who helped you will be fired if you don't give the 10."

      Col. Hackworth, a US expatriate (and badass) who does a lot of writing about bullshit in the Army, mentions that this kind of thing got added at one point (around the early 60s) where every soldier had to be a perfect marksman on pain of being demoted. The way soldiers would get around this was by having a buddy stick holes in their paper targets with a pencil indicating perfect shots.

      That cable installer who put in your physics prof's cable was most likely fired instantly, just because your prof understood statistics and not managerial politics.

      --

      There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.
    6. Re:Why 6/10? by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      Too bad there was no questionnaire that graded the managers that applied systems like that. (The Aerial Stunt-Pig Show will be in town first.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    7. Re:Why 6/10? by LauraScudder · · Score: 1

      We have an evaluation that we fill out for our professors at my college that goes to the Reappointment, Promotion and Tenure committee. This apparently happens on these sometimes, too. You're given about 20 statements like: The professor answered questions well, etc. and asked to rate them on a 1-7 scale: 1 very strong disagree, 4 neutral and 7 very strongly agree. A better than average class gets a 5/7 in my book, and I've only given one seven in my four years here. But I recently talked to someone who said that when the class was really bad she bumped them down from 7 to 6. I was flabbergasted. I've given out a 2 because I thought that the professor was particularly bad at the aspect of teaching in question.

      I couldn't believe it because it's a physics class at a school with notoriously low grade inflation, so you wouldn't expect this kind of behavior with numbers that are going to get compiled into statistics on how good a teacher the professor is. I felt bad for a moment until I realized that unlike your Kia example, this data is collected over years (up until tenure decision / promotion to full professor point) and that its probably compared to ratings for other professors, whom I've also taken classes from. I still think that people ignoring the definitions has to fuck up their statistics, but I also don't think that at a tech school "low" scores would have the same effect.

    8. Re:Why 6/10? by TinheadNed · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Makes me think of Lurr from Omicron Persei 8.

      We shall not destory your planet, but neither shall we give you the secret to immortality!

    9. Re:Why 6/10? by krgallagher · · Score: 2, Funny
      "He thought, "Okay, the scale is 1-10, meaning 5 should be around average. I think I got better than average service." Then he proceeded to fill the survey with 7's and 8's.

      I had a similar experience with a pizza company. I had actually recieved excellent service. They even anticipated something I had forgoten to ask for. I thought I was paying them a high compliment by giving them a 9 out of 10.

      Needless to say, they did not see it that way. I recieved a personal call from a customer service representative wanting to know "How can we improve our service?" After trying to explain that they had beat my expectations and that 9 out of 10 was an excellent score, I finally suggested they put the delivery drivers in tuxedos.

      --

      Insert Generic Sig Here:

    10. Re:Why 6/10? by plover · · Score: 1
      I asked for the ability to rate the person who mandated the "oh-please-give-me-a-10-out-of-10" survey that the local Ford dealer had me fill out. I almost gave him a 5 just for putting up with his pathetic begging.

      Anyway, I think they assigned the winner of the Hades Ice Scuplture competition to get back to me. But I hear he's busy working as a coach for one of the stunt-pig teams...

      --
      John
    11. Re:Why 6/10? by plover · · Score: 1
      I also don't think that at a tech school "low" scores would have the same effect.

      Don't be too sure. Managers seem to always end up acting like managers, regardless of whether they're administering a school or running a car dealership. Like programmers, there are good ones and bad ones. And like programming, bad managers blindly follow management trends -- firing the bottom 10% because it worked for Jack at GM; giving attaboy awards makes up for a total lack of cash bonuses, etc.

      Just be thankful your professors didn't beg you to give them a 7 at the end of the semester, or hand you a pathetic "if you feel you can't give me a seven, please come talk to me about it before you turn in your survey."

      --
      John
    12. Re:Why 6/10? by LauraScudder · · Score: 1

      Well, luckily, most of our administrators are tech people (former Engineers and Chemists mostly), and even then the Reappointment, Promotion, and Tenure committee is populated mostly by other professors - rather than administrators - who don't want to be treated badly themselves when up for that promotion to full professor. Even full professors have a vested interest in keeping other good professors around rather than constantly "firing" (or turning down people for tenure is the equivalent I suppose) good young people.

      Also, begging for sevens would not only get back to the people on the committee (it's a small school with a lot of student-professor interaction), but would also be rather pointless as the professor is forced to leave the room while the surveys are filled out anyways so the students don't feel pressured to be nice by his presense. The side of the survey with the numbers (and a small box for confidential comments) never gets seen by the professor, only composite statistics on it, while the other side has open ended "what did you particularly like about this class" and "what did you particularly dislike about this class" questions, which the professor gets copies of after grades have been turned in.

      I'm just surprised that after all these precautions to make sure that the numbers have some meaning for the committee and considering the technical nature of the students (who've all taken statistics), there are some who still inflate to a rediculous degree. It seems to me the problem is people who feel the need to inflate. I personally feel no pressure to inflate since there is no instant repercussion for the professor, and I've ranked every professor in the department on the same scale so that no one should look undeservingly bad next to the others just because I didn't inflate evaluation ratings. In the quality survey there aren't those guarantees, which is why there is more pressure for artificial scores.

      I still can't believe that this student selected strongly agree when she actually very strongly disagreed and thought that would somehow get her point across. There's no feedback there.

    13. Re:Why 6/10? by qtothemax · · Score: 1

      "Do you really want to do this? The person who helped you will be fired if you don't give the 10."

      Man, I wish I could do that to that bastard at midas that replaced my whole exaust system for $500 without asking me first...

    14. Re:Why 6/10? by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Well, what sorta bugs me is that this kind of inflating scores has crept everywhere. E.g., let's take something fairly neutral for most people: game reviews.

      Well, except for some fanboys who'll foam at the mouth if you gave their idol's game only a 99% rating. Bonus points if they haven't even played the fscking game yet, but they just _know_ it's a perfect 100%.

      I've seen for example a review on a major review site, for an overhyped game that I truly hated. The reviewer went to great lengths to demolish every single aspect of it, and for good reason. The review told you just how much every single bit and detail and design decision sucked. The controls, the interface, the physics, the quests, etc. He sounded like he hated it all. It even ended with such damning words as saying that the game might be ok for someone who's never ever played another game before, and thus can't compare it to anything, but won't cut it for anyone else.

      Then they give it some rating like 84%. Uh? Excuse me? Regardless of what _I_ thought about the game, that reviewer himself had wrote a hate-fest about the game. He had savaged it thoroughly. There was _nothing_ in his review that would, under a normal Gauss distribution, justify an 84% score. (Or for that matter, more than a 10-20% score. He didn't seem to mind the graphics, so I guess it wouldn't make it a perfect 0%.) But an 84% score it did get nevertheless.

      I presume just not to hurt anyone's feelings too much.

      And you know what bugs me about this kind of attitude? That the scale distorts more and more.

      If in one year you gave a crap game a 40% instead of the 10% that it deserved, to spare some people's feelings... you've just distorted the scale some more. A couple more such events and now 40% means total crap. Now to spare feelings you start giving 50% to 60% for that. Oops. The scale got distorted some more.

      Give it another decade and we'll have a scale of ratings that goes not from 0 to 100, but from 99% and 100%.

      And some people will then foam at the mouth when their favourite game gets only 99.5%. Time to distort the scale some more.

      Then what the heck was the purpose of this whole trip?

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    15. Re:Why 6/10? by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      That's where you say "Did I give you written permission? Did you give me a quote for all that work? No? Thanks for the free exhaust system."

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    16. Re:Why 6/10? by qtothemax · · Score: 1

      Kia's "#1 in service satisfaction!" should be starting any time now thanks to this guilt trip. They probably don't even really fire the guy if you insist on giving a 9...

    17. Re:Why 6/10? by Charlotte · · Score: 1

      They probably don't even really fire the guy if you insist on giving a 9...

      You could be right. Some companies actually try to do better for real and get higher scores the right way. Who's to say some aren't tricking the game by nagging the customer until they give a 10/10?

      Come to think of it, both methods could be used concurrently. There's no reason you can't nag at the customer until they give a 10 and then fire some guy if you don't succeed.

  2. The aftermath in a nutshell by ThomasFlip · · Score: 2, Funny

    Time Warner got fucked

    --
    If the dollar is an "I owe you nothing", then the Euro is a "Who owes you nothing." - Doug Casey
    1. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in the (_!_)

    2. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by EisPick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      More precisely, Time Warner's pre-merger shareholders were, and AOL's pre-merger shareholders got a massive gift.

    3. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm giving private math lessons to a girl, and I wish there were such an "aftermath".

    4. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should just tell her you'd like to show her what happens when you put 1 into 0....

    5. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by edwdig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pretty much everyone involved in the deal did, other than people who traded the stock at the right time.

      Before buying Time Warner, AOL was buying up companies making technology important to them, such as Netscape & WinAmp. They didn't want to be dependant on anyone.

      Time Warner didn't care about any of that stuff. They were content letting other people deal with those issues, and just providing the content.

      The two merged, and really didn't mix well. Everything stagnated, and they blamed each other for the fall. AOL really only had one product, so when that started to lose popularity, they took all the blame, and Time Warner took over the company and tried to distance themselves from AOL as much as they could.

      Ted Turner pretty much lost any power he had, and things he used to own went down too. The Atlanta Braves have had a huge cut in payroll. WCW was sold off for peanuts to WWF (now WWE) - supposedly just the wrestling rings and other equipment alone was worth more than the total sale price. WWE is making a lot of money selling DVDs made from the video footage they got in the deal.

      Netscape got left to die a slow death, before finally getting killed off last year.

      NullSoft hasn't been allowed to do anything interesting.

    6. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      So... you're saying they got !'d in the (_!_)? Or #'d in the *?

      Somebody was definitely smoking some # those days.

    7. Re:The aftermath in a nutshell by wayward_son · · Score: 1

      More precisely, Time Warner drove AOL straight into the ground.

      These were two radically different corporate cultures. The two companies were supposed to supplement each others strengths. However, they merely combined each others weaknesses.

  3. In the words of Bart Simpson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    "Bubbles can burst!?!?"

  4. Worst Merger Ever by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That is all that can be said of the AOL/TW debacle, the worst merger in history.

    You have to hand it to Steve Case though - how we managed to convince the world's most powerful and valuable media empire to sell its soul for a dialup ISP with a proprietary service is truly one of the great feats of negotiation in business history. AOL would be trading for $2 now if not for Case convincing Levin to impale TW shareholders.

    1. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the worst merger in history

      It was not that spectacular, what about the Burroughs/Sperry merger? Compaq/Dec (or was that a takeover?), and those are just some of the IT ones which bombed. A seriously nasty one was when Swissair took Sabena on - the black holes in Sabena's books drove Swissair bankrupt.

      AOLTW was just a good bit of Dotcom business, a totally overvalued company took advantage of that valuation to buy some serious real-estate. Nothing special, apart from the sums involved.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    3. Re:Worst Merger Ever by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "You have to hand it to Steve Case though - how we managed to convince the world's most powerful and valuable media empire to sell its soul for a dialup ISP with a proprietary service is truly one of the great feats of negotiation in business history. AOL would be trading for $2 now if not for Case convincing Levin to impale TW shareholders."

      Your statement lacks scope. Time Warner failed every attempt at getting the internet "right." The very expensive "Full Service Network" in Orlando was considered a failure. Time Warner's "Pathfinder" portal was not a top destination for web surfers. Not to mention you had the history of Atari's "failure" coming from the Warner side of Time Warner.

      Compare that to AOL. AOL (or so they thought) understood the internet. This was the company Microsoft was scared of. They owned Netscape. Nullsoft WinAmp. ICQ and AIM. Digital Cities. Mapquest. Early investor in many technologies like TiVo, and shareholders in Amazon.com and eBay (and they had first right to acquiring both companies).

      AOL had a problem getting into broadband because all the cable companies blocked them. AOL needed Time Warner Cable. Time Warner needed a coherent online strategy that AOL could provide them. The deal made absolute sense. And furthermore, AOL as an outsider who understood the new economy could go over the heads of the various fiefdoms that remained fiercely independent since the original Time and Warner merger, not to mention the acquisition of Turner Broadcasting shortly thereafter. AOL was to deliver the "synergy" that even Steve Ross could not deliver from the original merger from 1989/1990.

      And what do we have now? Short-sighted Time Warner executives calling the shots. The very same executives who failed to encourage the FCC and FTC to force open Comcast's pipes during their acquisition of AT&T Broadband. So AOL is having to go after add-on services to other broadband customers because none of the cable companies will allow them first tier billing. Even Time Warner Cable shafts AOL and pushes RoadRunner which is co-owned by Microsoft. Lay the blame for the failure of synergy at the door of Time Warner, not AOL...

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    4. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Zalgon+26+McGee · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind, Time Warner has a history of buying high and selling low with computer companies. Anyone remember a little outfit called Atari?

      --

      ---

      Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman

    5. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm swissair drove sabena to the ground

      sabena was getting billions in governmental suport
      anyway sabena is dead now swissair is still around

    6. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Earthlink/Mindspring? I worked for them shortly after the merger; it was a mess. A bunch of Mindspring people wanted to defect and start their own ISP called SpringHeads, which would have been pretty cool, but of course that was mostly just a dream...

      Mindspring was once cool enough that they allowed drinking (yes, alcohol) at work, although that policy changed for legal reasons. Employees were generally happy, and their customers LOVED them. They were respected among techie people, and widely used by non-techie people too. Internally they ran by far the best CRM software I've ever seen with a nice big stable UNIX backend. Then Earthlink came along and we had to start changing everything, moving from the easy-to-use reliable web-based CRM tools to the Windows-based buggy pile of crap Earthlink was using (with the #00ff00 green status message that scrolled across the top of the screen repeatedly that nobody knew how to update or turn off), supporting weird-ass DSL connections that we weren't given any tools to troubleshoot, and... many more significant changes I can't think of at the moment. We heard horror stories about how employees were treated in legacy ELNK callcenters (imagine a big room with rows of small desks, no cubicle walls, no assigned seating, and obnoxious Lucent office phones instead of kick-ass Aspect call-center phones like we had).

      And then the company closed all their callcenters and outsourced everything. Very glad I left long before that.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    7. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weren't Earthlink a Co$ front organisation? Did they ever get rid of those people?

    8. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Ravenrage · · Score: 0

      "Time Warner failed every attempt at getting the internet "right." " I think you are forgetting road runner. look into it. in my area it is the most stable broadband around

    9. Re:Worst Merger Ever by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      You are skipping over the time between the merger and now. After the merger, former AOL executives held all of the power in the company - they were the ones who ran it into the ground. It may have been a great deal up front, but it was the AOL side that failed to deliver, not TW.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    10. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 1

      Swissair went belly-up first. A subsiduary of theirs (Crossair) was spun off and attempted to keep the swiss flag flying but it did not really work.
      Then the swiss banks got together and organised the founding of a new airline, something to replace the original airline. It would have been cheaper for them to have bought Lufthansa, but what the hell. This airline (called Swiss? I think Crossair have the rights to the old name) is also struggling. They originally tried to merge with Lufthansa (or was it a takeover?) but then changed their minds and tried for a connection to British Airways. That was cancelled a week or so ago. They will not survive on their own so we will see what they try next.

      Sabena closed down shortly afterwards. Here again, a new airline has been formed to replace them, but I can't remember what it is called.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    11. Re:Worst Merger Ever by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      No. I kept hearing weird rumors about connections between a few people in Earthlink's (not Mindspring's) top management and Co$, but to my knowledge any such personal affiliations had no impact on how the company did business.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  5. Not cool guys? by Neil+Blender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most of the dotcoms managed by 'cool guys' failed. There was far too much emphasis on 'being cool' than having a realistic business model.

    1. Re:Not cool guys? by FaasNat · · Score: 1

      I can see that. Especially when part of "being cool" meant spending a lot of money on useless/overpriced office furniture and accessories.

      I remember seeing a lot of $100+ executive office chairs on eBay from going out of business dotcoms.

      --
      There's never enough when you have too little
    2. Re:Not cool guys? by captain_craptacular · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got news for ya, $100 is chump change for an office chair. Seriously, you're off by about a factor of 10. My plain "ergonomically correct" chair was probably at least $500. Aerons were $1000+

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
    3. Re:Not cool guys? by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      You obviously have no clue what your are talking about. All the really cool dot-bomb CEOs sat on Ball Chairs

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    4. Re:Not cool guys? by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      There is nothing more important than being cool, not even success in business. AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    5. Re:Not cool guys? by FaasNat · · Score: 1

      Okay okay, I missed a 0. But I wasn't actually thinking hard about numbers when I was trying to make my point. I guess points are better taken when the numbers are correct eh?

      --
      There's never enough when you have too little
    6. Re:Not cool guys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to the picture at the bottom of that page, seems like the ball chair will make your secretary get a flat chest.

    7. Re:Not cool guys? by FaasNat · · Score: 1

      Coming back to this comment. This reminds me of the line from the movie White Men Can't Jump where Billy was telling Sidney, "You rather look good and lose than look bad and win." Kinda fits in here....

      --
      There's never enough when you have too little
    8. Re:Not cool guys? by LetterJ · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hey, buddy, this is Slashdot. Your point will be 100% ignored if even the slightest detail is *possibly* incorrect. Most Slashdotters would rather stare at the mold on the bark on an individual tree than see the forest.

      You'd have been corrected if you had stated that the chairs go for $1000 by someone screaming that they only paid $998 for theirs.

    9. Re:Not cool guys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pull off any new deals lately?

  6. tips from al franken? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did the author take writing advice from al franken or something? The line Steve Case is a big, fat loser reminds me of the title of franken's fair-and-balanced book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot"

  7. How about NOT... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 0

    "How AOL / Time-Warner came to be..." Uggg! I'd rather read about how AOLTW accidentally got flushed down the toilet, to be lost FOREVER!

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:How about NOT... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you say that? You didn't like the Matrix, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Austin Powers, Sopranos, Terminator, Last Samurai, Friends, West Wing, ER, Sports Illustrated, Kid Rock...

      Maybe not all of that is great but there is plenty in there that I would like to keep.

    2. Re:How about NOT... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1
      You didn't like the Matrix, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Austin Powers, Sopranos, Terminator, Last Samurai, Friends, West Wing, ER, Sports Illustrated, Kid Rock...

      No, sorry, didn't see any of them. Over-hyped films, over-hyped TV, over-hyped mags, over-hyped music. Pull the corporate IV out of your arm and live.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    3. Re:How about NOT... by jedrek · · Score: 1

      If you haven't seen them... then how are they 'over-hyped'? Being 100% anti-mass media is as bad as being 100% pro-mass media.

  8. Orwellian? by kalidasa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Orwellian in which sense, language being distorted to control people's thoughts, or ubiquitous surveillance?

    1. Re:Orwellian? by gregarican · · Score: 1

      I think they meant to say "Huxleyan" as in Brave New World.

    2. Re:Orwellian? by prostoalex · · Score: 3, Informative

      Orwellian in the sense that all animals are equal, but some are more equal.

    3. Re:Orwellian? by perseguidor · · Score: 1

      I couldn't say, but at least we can rule out the Totalitarian-Socialist-Dictatorship-Of-A-Pig sense.

      --
      O make me a mask
    4. Re:Orwellian? by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      Why is that? I certainly didn't get invited to any group sex/drug parties (let alone free drug/sex parties) around the time of the AOLTW merger.
      In fact, I think that's about the time I slowed down w.r.t. drugs, I mean really, something that distorted can't be real right?
      One doesn't need drugs when shit like that is happening in the world...

    5. Re:Orwellian? by Ulven · · Score: 1

      I suppose Orwellian is just as apt a term for Unequal equality as Big Brother. But it took me a bit of thinking to remember Animal Farm.

    6. Re:Orwellian? by missing000 · · Score: 1
      Maybe for it's oxymoronic nature?

      Remember:

      WAR IS PEACE

      FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


      (This line inserted to bypass the damn lameness filter)
    7. Re:Orwellian? by DarthTaco · · Score: 1

      "Orwellian in the sense that all animals are equal, but some are more equal."

      Ah, thank you. I just immediately thought of 1984, and totally forgot about Animal Farm. The reference makes much more sense now.

    8. Re:Orwellian? by machine+of+god · · Score: 1

      Maybe orwellian as in oligarchy (can two be an oligarchy?) in control of massive amounts of people?

      Heh, and while those in charge do have power, they are still prisoners of their own system, because they have to sell themselves their own terrible product?

      Or maybe it's just so richard parsons can call his house the ministry of love.

      Yeah, it's all becoming clear now.

    9. Re:Orwellian? by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Orwellian in the sense that TW shareholders are now washing dishes in a Paris hotel to make ends meet.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    10. Re:Orwellian? by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      Why is that? I certainly didn't get invited to any group sex/drug parties (let alone free drug/sex parties) around the time of the AOLTW merger.

      Thank your lucky stars you didn't go to the free AOL group sex parties.

      You would have risked getting free pop-up banner sores for the rest of your life.

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
  9. How it happened, in a nutshell by Glonoinha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Simple, same thing that happened at HP / Compaq : greedy asshats at the helm that are able to make a gazillion dollars while destroying two companies in the process, destroying the shareholder value of those two companies in the process. Ask Carly about that one, and Mr. Case.

    --
    Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  10. New AOL/TW Sound... by axis-techno-geek · · Score: 5, Funny
    >>ding<< You got screwed!

    --
    This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
    1. Re:New AOL/TW Sound... by Tokerat · · Score: 1


      "You've got screwed!"? Not proper grammar but sounds kinda funny...

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  11. AOL/TW in the movies by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 3, Funny

    Every time I saw AOL's name at the beginning of a movie, I shuddered... I think even The Matrix was a victim of this...

    1. Re:AOL/TW in the movies by cavemanf16 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      From your website essay: "Why I want to be an Industrial Engineer"

      "Perhaps most important of all, Industrial Engineering can be used to solve fundamental long-term issues that civilization will exhibit. Overpopulation, transportation planning, waste and recycling center location planning, and hospital facilities layout are just a few places where Industrial Engineers can be used to greatly help. Applying our knowledge in these and other important areas will help our societies to function better in the long-term."

      Those are great dreams and all, so I hope something comes of them for you, but in my current position I'd relate myself more to "The Bob's" of the world, and less to the revolutionary changer of the way daily life is run.

      "So tell me... Bob; what do ya do here?"

    2. Re:AOL/TW in the movies by Marvin_OScribbley · · Score: 1

      Actually I kinda got a kick out of that. The opening sequence where they show the Time Warner logo and all has been subverted, so to speak, turned the green hue that all the matrix shots had. In The Matrix, it says, "Time Warner", in Reloaded it says "AOL Time Warner" with even more ominosity, and by the time Revolutions came out they had dropped the "AOL" from the time.

      --
      I'm not a journalist, but I play one on slashdot
    3. Re:AOL/TW in the movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what's it going to say on Matrix Refactored?

  12. Dear Neil, by gregarican · · Score: 0, Redundant

    You sure are on the ball. I heartily concur.

    Sincerely,
    Mark Cuban

  13. I remember when the merger was announced by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ...and my jaw literally dropped when I realized it was more AOL buying TW than the other way around. That was when I realized the dot-com boom was very, very real and that things were not the way they were. Time Warner is beyond huge, so to have AOL swoop them up was incredible. I had older relatives who had been in the media business, mostly on the news side, and they were stunned too for they knew how big TW was but had little idea of this new AOL "thing."

    Of course it turned out all to be a stock thing. AOL stock, at the time, was high-flying, and TW stock was looked down upon as this underperforming, boring old line stock. AOL would give TW a facelift for the 21st-century, and both sides would benefit from that 90s buzzword "synergy."

    Ha! From trying to force TW staffers to switch internal mail systems to the laughable AOL mail system, to conflicts on the board level, to a failure to find true value out of the synergy, and then the stock market collapse, followed by the fleeing of subscribers from AOL, it was not to be. Now AOL/Time-Warner is back to being Time-Warner, the old line guys are getting revenge on the dot-com upstarts, and the whole thing seems like a bad idea gone wrong from the start.

    Which it was.

    1. Re:I remember when the merger was announced by HyperbolicParabaloid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had a similar reaction. I view the AOL/TW merger as akin to money laundering.
      During the dot com boom, the smart business people HAD to know that those companies were wildly over valued (PriceLine.com was worth more than the entire airline industry!). Steve Case prudently turned some of his play money into real money buy buying an actual, productive, fairly valued company.
      And thats what money laundering is: turning dirty money into clean money.

      --


      -------------------------
      A person of moderate zeal
    2. Re:I remember when the merger was announced by jallen02 · · Score: 1

      But.. in the context of the stock market it's all legal like as long as everything is done appropriately. Heh. Cute no?

      The stock market has its ups and downs, why not play it if you think you can predict the future?

      Jeremy

    3. Re:I remember when the merger was announced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sort of thing doesn't just happen in the world of media companies or what the financial press is still dumb enough to refer to as "high-tech". At about the same time the AOL-TW corporate collision was happening, McDonnell Douglas was busy buying out Boeing with Boeing's money.

  14. Just a question... by Wiser87 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who here read the review mainly because of the title?

    1. Re:Just a question... by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Me. I still haven't found the pony yet, but I know it's in there.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    2. Re:Just a question... by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny

      And here I thought the article was about a new McDonald value menu burger, I am so disappointed.

    3. Re:Just a question... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      I'm still looking for the Steven Wright quotes.

    4. Re:Just a question... by nobody69 · · Score: 1

      "I used to work near the hydrant factory, but I had to quit. You couldn't park anywhere near the place."

      --
      "Bugger this, I want a better world." - Jenny Sparks
    5. Re:Just a question... by gantrep · · Score: 1

      data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhDwAPAOZ4AP///VUjEJyK k4RBLVtQUbuHIdfQ0c28v5BWfqd8Xp19goxPW7p0KPXz9P39/s O2usa/weva3eTi4fTx8ebi5uXS07eknd7N06qalk8kMuDDkIBX S/39/ax3gmczLLqjpvf39+ba2vr6+uXV0evc4NrIosF8aubdx/ Tj383GyOfZ2vLr620vCm9oZtOxtdy8ycGGQd6fKenc2s/QzcuP IalTDlUxQEowMbOEkfPn3n9CNLCVky4QEp9aDs++wlwoRv33+m AuR9K6vtK/vvTv8Y88BOjY3+jd1aFUFPr///v8/v7+/PXz87eR h9fQzMuKIdrRzD0FDrp3GwYAALt5FwYDBTIAAPz8/IBVTMGsk8 vLyeba2fb6+nRfZs6qiPTw4pZWIfDs8fb08fbw75NWPd29q/rx 6cGztzUfH+rg25N6ccOQoOrn58CioDoTIsupr9mnSMypncqPFM aEIJVGEN/Jw6Njb////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ACH5BAEAAHgALAAAAAAPAA8AAAekgHiCg4SFd4eIiXccYUZbio oUXRluGHdOWScaJV9iWgI2U2g8ClwbRTRyBXAwAUE/US4ka0xY ZDVUUk8xDAsIHYcObG07Vix0PXNIA3YRiCkGLVU3HmoJOmAmQI kQBDNNcXdJdV44L4lDMndlZocVKEpvY4gWR3c5I4cXRHdCKohQ 0twRcabBHR8h7hz4gAjAkkMgrtyZsOKOhAd3ABTayLEjoUAAOw ==

  15. AOL & TWC by commo1 · · Score: 0, Insightful

    From day one, I could not understand how this was possible. I have not read this book, but it seems that every time something major like this happens, something just smacks me as being wrong. AOL does not make money. It didn't at the time, and it probably never will. Sun can not realistically make money. Apple clung on for dear life and will eventually falter -- iTunes can only hold out for so long. IBM got out of HW, look where they are. Novell embraced Linux and where are they? Doing much better than a few years ago. MS investing in Corel? Look where that is now.

    Isn't there someone out there who would actually think of consulting with intimately aware industry experts (us, for lack of a better idiom) before believing the hype on balance sheets that list 95% goodwill as an asset?

    Maybe I'm being too cocky in believing I'm better than the "experts", but I seem to be right more often than not.

    1. Re:AOL & TWC by sirwired · · Score: 5, Informative

      IBM got out of HW,

      Err... what planet are you from? IBM no longer sells PC's to retail customers at stores. Hardware in general remains about 35-40% of the business. For IBM, that translates to about 30 Billion dollars a year. It makes Sun look positively puny.

      Even in PC's IBM sells more laptops to businesses than anyone else. IBM sells more servers than any other company by a significant amount. That is all serious money.

      SirWired

    2. Re:AOL & TWC by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 1, Redundant

      IBM got out of HW, look where they are.

      Oh, Jesus. Don't tell anyone at IBM that they "got out of HW."

      Insightful like a brick.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:AOL & TWC by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm being too cocky in believing I'm better than the "experts", but I seem to be right more often than not.

      Really? Because you're wrong about AOL, wrong about Sun , and wrong about Apple. Tell us, what HAVE you been right about?

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    4. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but I seem to be right more often than not.

      So, um, you are rich, right?

    5. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean they still sell Hardware? I thought they only sold Lotus Notes and Rational Rose. Oh wait a second - I am typing this on an IBM Thinkpad.

    6. Re:AOL & TWC by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      AOL actually does make real money, just not nearly enough to justify that price. A big dial up ISP throws off a ton of cash, too. Apple can rest easy as long as things just kind of trudge along as they have a mountain of cash that provides lots of funding for small losses. Before interest and taxes (Time Warner does not allocate those expenses to business divisions)AOL made $660 million last year. That's great for a $3-$5 billion dollar business.
      Goodwill is always a bit wierd, it's how accountants keep the balance sheet balanced when you pay more than book value for a company. Most conservative investors (and bond holders) look at tangible assets and book value excluding things like goodwill and other intangibles. You have to be careful about this because source code, wireless licenses, and Dell's operations are all examples of intangibles that have some value.
      The stock market trades mostly on hopes and dreams, especially over the past five years. I blame Microsoft for this. So many people saw Microsoft make people rich who were in early enough, that they bid up the price of every company with the slightest potential of being the next Microsoft. As a result, the demand was met with supply. Enough people did this that the real experts knew values were screwy, but couldn't keep clients if they didn't play the game, too.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    7. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody please mod this troll down. He is wrong on every point. AOL (just AOL not all of TW) had an operating income of $663M in 2003, Sun has had losses for a couple of years but has historically made plenty and is making efforts to reinvent themselves. Apple is doing better and has always hung on dispite the constant predictions of death. iTunes doesn't even make money. They run it at a loss to sell iPods and Macs. IBM is 95% a hardware company. Not sure what his points about Novell and MS are.

      This guy is a ranting lunatic who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

    8. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post confuses me.

      > Apple... will eventually falter.

      Everything eventually ends, but Apple seems to have been going out of business for the past 15 years. On the upside, they have a silly amount of cash on hand and no debt, though not as silly an amount as Microsoft. On the downside, they don't seem as good at making reliable hardware and dependable software as in the past, and they've never been good at making stable Windows software.

      (Dependable=predictable, not necessarily stable.)

      > IBM got out of HW, look where they are.

      Which company is it that's struggling to make all those CPUs for Apple's computers? What about the GameCubes? Which company just announced new servers based on the POWER5, and who's making them?

    9. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From day one, I could not understand how this was possible.

      It's dead simple: if a company can convince everyone that, although it is not profitable in the short-term, it will be profitable in the long-term, it's value rises as everybody wants to invest in it. When there's a phenomenon like the dot-com bubble, a new and interesting market can radically raise share prices, as all sorts of business plans are dreamt up, and being new ground, everyone wants to get in early to make the most money.

      In this particular case, as one of the leading ISPs in the world, AOL managed to convince people that although they might not be making much money, they could capitalise on their large user-base. That gave them enough money to essentially buy-out TW.

      Apple clung on for dear life and will eventually falter -- iTunes can only hold out for so long.

      You haven't been paying attention. Not only is Apple profitable, but they recently paid off quite a large loan. I'm not sure what you are driving at with iTunes - it was never intended to do anything other than break-even - Apple want to corner the online music market to make money in related markets, like iPod sales. They are doing a good job of it as well.

    10. Re:AOL & TWC by RickHunter · · Score: 1

      Apple clung on for dear life and will eventually falter -- iTunes can only hold out for so long.

      So Apple's making all their money from the iTMS now? Apple is, from all signs, one of the only tech companies likely to survive, other than IBM and Novell. As the iPod Mini showed, they actually make things that the mainstream WANTS. Microsoft's 100% dependant on total market dominance and a constantly expanding desktop market, and both of those are getting eroded slowly but surely. Sun is just a sick, sick joke at this point.

      AOL survived only through tricky accounting. Nothing more, nothing less. It was all one great, big shell game, and it looks like its finally started to catch up with them.

    11. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe you blame Microsoft for the boom and bust. I mean there has to be a limit to the anti-MS slant. They sold a real product and made real money (and continue to do so). I think Yahoo really was the one that started the whole disaster. They were the first of the well known dot-coms to go public and make a boatload. Jerry Yang was on the cover of all the magazines. That was the real start. Microsoft's stock never really had that big of a roller coaster.

    12. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are thousands of other tech companies that are going to survive. Contrary to your wet dreams Microsoft is not going anywhere. Oracle will always be strong. Amazon, eBay and google show every sign of sticking around. I haven't heard of any problems from Adobe or Macromedia. Norton and McAfee will stick around as long as there are viruses to be gotten. Then there are the dozens of companies that sell accounting software (PeopleSoft, Peachtree, Quickbooks, etc.) and other specialized techs.

    13. Re:AOL & TWC by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      IBM got out of HW, look where they are.

      IBM no longer makes PCs, but they are certainly still in the hardware business. Hell, they advertize it on TV. And a large part of the goal of all their other services is "sell IBM hardware".

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    14. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM no longer makes PCs

      Crap then how am I going to write this post because obviously this Thinkpad doesn't exist. IBM still makes and sells notebooks and desktops. Does anybody confirm something before posting. Oh wait - of course not. This is slashdot.

    15. Re:AOL & TWC by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people often forget how big big blue really is.
      A few years ago (during the first WINTEL screaming after win95 was released), i was surprised that IBM made more money per quarter than microsoft per year. ..

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    16. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Now that Carly has screwed up both HP and Compaq, IBM is where businesses go to buy new PCs when their Dells fall apart.

      Oh, yeah...I understand they still make a buck or two with mainframes.

    17. Re:AOL & TWC by GPLDAN · · Score: 1

      Got ANY facts for ANY of your assertions? Any at all? I'll help...

      The % of gross revenues last quarter for iPOD as opoosed to other hardware.

      Sun's quarter over quarter margins over the last year.

      Microsoft's 10Q statement, in terms of revenue generated from desktop licenses as opposed to other revenue streams last quarter.

      AOL's balance sheets over the last 5 years, showing the number of payed subscribers over time, and a chart of their internal expense structure, to show that they survived "only" through tricky accounting.

    18. Re:AOL & TWC by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      It's not Microsoft, they are the success it's that every retail investor thinks (hopes) that this new company will be the next Microsoft (because it's in tech or the internet or whatever) and bid it up to a value that might be fair for a company that was the next Microsoft, leaving little room for a good return if it turns out to be successful and a whole lot of room to crash if it is not.
      Everyone knew (even Buffett) that the internet had changed things and that a few companies would emerge with a stranglehold on certain parts of business over the internet. As it turns out they were generally right three companies emerged from the decline with real cash generating businesses that are very likely to continue in the long run (Amazon, Ebay, and Yahoo). The bubble occured because everyone believed that each individual company that went public was very likely to be that one successful company regardless of the actual chances of their company (pets.com webvan or something) making it. If Microsoft hadn't completely dominated the PC industry resulting in huge returns for everyone who got in in even the relativly the early years, I don't think we would have had nearly the excesses of the past few years.
      Certainly it didn't help that there was an overspending on telecommunications equipment due to the 1996 telecomm act, and computer equipment prior to the Euro and Y2K but that just primed the pump for the later bubble (looking back it appears that the tech markets would have tanked in 1999 and 2000 (following those years of excess spending), if we hadn't suddenly all decided that this internet company was certainly the next Microsoft. Which was what they were all billed as--go back and look at all the times first mover advantages (econ speak for what MS did) are mentioned in IPO filings.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    19. Re:AOL & TWC by ubertemp · · Score: 1
      IBM still makes and sells notebooks and desktops. Does anybody confirm something before posting.

      Such an ironic statement. IBM discontinued their desktop line, Aptiva, years ago.

    20. Re:AOL & TWC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      >IBM still makes and sells notebooks and desktops. Does anybody confirm something before posting.

      Such an ironic statement. IBM discontinued their desktop line, Aptiva, years ago.

      IBM discontinued their desktops for the home market, but companies can still buy IBM desktops just fine.

  16. Any details about the AOL CDs? by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Funny
    The book is easy to read and is full of interesting details.

    Hope they didn't miss out important details about the AOL CDs. Were there lively debates about what to call the new CDs? Does it say which smart aleck decided to do away with the jewel boxes once they realized people were picking up thousands of CDs just to keep use the nice jewel cases and replaced them with shitty cardboard covers?

    I'd buy the book if it had notes and chapters about AOL CDs.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
    1. Re:Any details about the AOL CDs? by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 1

      Buy the book and maybe you'll get a CD . . .

      --

      I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

    2. Re:Any details about the AOL CDs? by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      I was pissed when they moved from floppies to CDs, because you could use the floppies for storing data, but the CDs were just coasters/(bad) frisbees/microwave toys.

      But the little tin boxes they send out now are great for toting burned CDs places: durable, free, and they hold four or five CDs.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    3. Re:Any details about the AOL CDs? by British · · Score: 1

      You gotta admit those DVD cases they are sending out are nice.

      My roomate took one, then took the free Twisted metal black online CD case(it was just cardboard sleeve), and stuffed it in the wrap of the DVD case.

      The result? Packaging that looks just like a store-bought PS2 game.

    4. Re:Any details about the AOL CDs? by NineteenSixtyNine · · Score: 1

      They also make pretty nifty Ninja Throwing Stars.....

      --

      --
      What would Bill Clinton do?
    5. Re:Any details about the AOL CDs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you actually USE the floppies for storing data? If I didn't know better, I'd say that they were designed to detect the action of the write head and fail.

  17. But Case -saved- AOL by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you want to compare Carly to TW's Levin. For Case, the merger was a masterstroke. AOL would be in the gutter now if it hadn't tethered itself to the world's most valuable media company. It is pre-merger TW shareholders who should be out for blood, not pre-merger AOL shareholders.

    1. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Ted's the only vocal one who is and he got booted from the board. I get a kick from the fact that most people who complain about the deal were former AOL shareholders who got half of a pretty decent media company (not that it doesn't have flaws, but it was doing OK) and are complaining that their investments have really declined since the merger.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh trust me. All of us who worked for TW and its subs before and after the merger curse AOL everytime we look at our 401(k) and stock options. There is a lot of hatred of AOL in the rank and file. The reason you don't hear the big wigs being outspoken about it is because they are the ones who fucked up royally. When I started here the stock was up over $70. Now it hovers around $17. You do the math. There were people who lost most of their retirement savings.

    3. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      What exactly is a 401(k), and how do they relate to stock options?

      I'm not from the states, but I just can't imagine having all my retirement savings tied up as stock. If i was ever given stock options (the closest I've come is being given a discount on company stock), I'd cash out a good chunk of them soon as I was allowed and diversify a bit more.

      I just don't see keeping all of your retirement money tied up in the company you work for as even a remotely effective way to manage your savings... there must be some regulations there I'm not aware of.....

    4. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 401(K) is basically a tax-exempt way of investing in mutual fund. You take money each week out of your pay check and put it into whatever grouping of funds you want to invest in. Part of the TW 401(k) includes a stock fund that solely invests in TW stock. In the old days they use to pay out profit sharing and matching only into that fund so it built up quickly. A lot of companies did this until Enron wiped out a lot of people's retirement funds. Now they distribute based on the way you distribute the rest of your money.

      A stock option is a guaranteed price to buy stock. You cannot exercise the options, however, until they vest (in this case 25% per year). When the stock rises this is great because you can cash out and make money but when the stock tanks they are worthless. If you have stock options at $50 and the stock is at $17 then you aren't going to exercise them.

      Does that make it any clearer? I am not sure that I explained it all that well.

    5. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A 401(k) is a company sponsored retirement plan. The "401(k)" title comes from the IRS (US tax agency) tax code number that defines them.

      These plans allow employees to put away a percentage of their income into a retirement savings plan. The money you put in is not taxed, and neither is the interest it may earn. When you retire and start spending the money, anything you take out will be taxed. Most company plans have a selection of investment choices to put the cash into while you wait to retire.

      As an added bonus, some companies match what you put into the plan with additional funds.

      The Time Warner 401(k) members ass-raping happened because these matching funds were added as TW stock, and could not be converted to anything else.

      So, the merger happens and the stock takes a tumble from 80 to 8. That's a 90% loss on 1/3 of your retirement fund. This does NOT build company morale.

      They have since changed the plan. Matching funds are still company stock, but can now be converted to other funds.

    6. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 1
      I'm not from the states, but I just can't imagine having all my retirement savings tied up as stock

      This is a time-honered tradition in the States. Given the overall market averages of the past 50 years or so, most people are encouraged to put a percentage of their income into a well-diversified (100+ stocks, mutual funds, etc) aggressive investment fund. Often money invested directly from income is matched by the employer in the form of that companies stock. Often as an employee approaches retirement age, they change strategies and move money from NYSE/NASDAQ to money market accounts, bonds, etc., investments that are (fairly) immune to the quarterly churning of the fortune 500.

      In the case of a company like Enron, many employees had *all* their eggs in one basket, and were buggered when the company went tits-up.

    7. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Zalgon+26+McGee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      AC: If you keep all your stock in one company, you're an idiot. Diversify. Take the time to manage your investments properly. Or don't bitch when things don't work out.

      --

      ---

      Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman

    8. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Often money invested directly from income is matched by the employer in the form of that companies stock.

      That's the part I was missing out on, thanks. I've never worked for a company that did this.

      I have a good deal of my retirement savings in stocks and funds, but it's spread out over a large group of funds to maximize the return:risk ratio, and I work with a consultant on a regular basis to keep it that way.

      I guess I just can't imagine the thought process that would lead to an employee to keep thier part of the contribution in company stock (i.e. buying company stock with thier income -- am I reading that right? the employees bought company stock with part of thier income, and the company matched it with more stock?).

    9. Re:But Case -saved- AOL by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 1
      the employees bought company stock with part of thier income, and the company matched it with more stock?

      You *can* do that, but most don't. Say I invest $50 a paycheck in my 401k each week. I can buy $50 worth of any investment available to me, but my company will then give me $50 worth of just their stock. So I now have $50 worth of whatever I want, and $50 worth of their stock, a total of $100. So you can invest your income in whatever you want, the company will match the dollar amount in their stock.

      After you're 'vested' in this contribution (the extra $50 in company stock, usually after a short number of months or years), you can again diversify however you want.

      So for the most part no one has to keep all their eggs in one basket. Those that do are pretty foolish. Some end up very rich, others end up like Enron employees. Many people had a hard time feeling sorry for the Enron workers because they were the same ones who were gloating a year before about how much money they were earning off of Enron stock. Great risks have the potential for great rewards, or great penalties.

  18. There is no pony... by bennomatic · · Score: 1

    It's only the megacorporation that smells like horse shit.

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
    1. Re:There is no pony... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 1

      Where as others smell like bull shit, chicken shit, or even pig shit. Matching megacorps to their odor is left as an exercise to the reader.. :)

    2. Re:There is no pony... by plover · · Score: 1
      Does anyone else find anthropomorphized food disturbing?

      Don't anthropomorphize your food. It doesn't like it.

      --
      John
    3. Re:There is no pony... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 1

      Heh, good one. For some reason cartoony animated food (M&M guys) doesn't bother me, but I think there's a definite line that shouldn't be crossed (chicken mcnuggets playing with children). :)

  19. did you know that... by Kiro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, you can tell that the author is not sucking up to AOL's ex-CEO.

    you mean, the CEO that in 1998 gave 8$ million to a christian school where they "cure" homosexuals?

    1. Re:did you know that... by blackula · · Score: 0

      Yes. What's your point here?

    2. Re:did you know that... by Kiro · · Score: 1

      the point is that he's last person anyone would be sucking up to

    3. Re:did you know that... by jandrese · · Score: 4, Funny

      Woah! Does "cureing" homosexuals involve naughty Catholic Schoolgirls?

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    4. Re:did you know that... by SCSi · · Score: 0

      If it does, i'll act gay to get "help".. Why does the Castle Anthrax scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail come to mind right now?

    5. Re:did you know that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that one. What a great guy.

  20. Specialized content, not homogenized by PurifyYourMind · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I hate seeing all the crossbranding on AOL/TW sites when all I want to see is the content. Specialized sites have always given me faster, cleaner, and more detailed news and information. For example, recently I needed to know an obscure fact about the Mozilla/Firefox browsers in a hurry. With Google I had to dig a big, but plugging the same search terms into mozillazine.org forums yielded the answer immediately.

  21. Braves by blackula · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think the worst part of this merger is that the Atlanta Braves had to cut payroll this season for the first time in quite some time. We lost Sheff, Javy, and Maddux, for God's sake! Bring back Ted Turner.

    1. Re:Braves by gregarican · · Score: 1

      How is this offtopic? This is one of the aftershocks of the merger dragging all subsidiaries down FFS! I too am a Braves fan (since about 1979 or so) and understand where the parent post is coming from. Perhaps this aspect of the merger isn't the absolute *worst* part of it, but still an ontopic take nonetheless.

    2. Re:Braves by jws · · Score: 1


      Actually, the payroll cut makes sense for the Braves. They've got little to show for their profligate spending (one WS). Sort of the Buffalo Bills of baseball.

    3. Re:Braves by wayward_son · · Score: 1

      From a business perspective, the Braves needed to cut payroll.

      After 12 straight division titles, and only one World Championship to show for it, the fans were getting bored. The win-the-division-easily-then-go out-in-the-first-round routine was getting old. Most Braves fans don't realize how much they sucked before 1991, and have taken the success for granted.

      The Braves have one of the best minor league systems around, and Bobby Cox is by far the best manager in baseball from April through September.

      They'll rebuild.

  22. You insensitive clod! by Embedded+Geek · · Score: 3, Funny
    Why did you give away the ending! I was only halfway through the book!!

    Fine. I'll just go off and read some Agatha Christe.

    --

    "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."

    1. Re:You insensitive clod! by FaasNat · · Score: 1

      I think if you want to read a book with that kind of ending, you'll need to read something by Ron Jeremy instead of ones by Agatha Christie. ;-)

      --
      There's never enough when you have too little
    2. Re:You insensitive clod! by McNally · · Score: 0
      Why did you give away the ending! I was only halfway through the book!!
      Fine. I'll just go off and read some Agatha Christie.

      The butler did it..
    3. Re:You insensitive clod! by Embedded+Geek · · Score: 1
      The butler did it..

      Why did you give away the ending! I was only halfway--

      Oh. Wait a second. All her stuff's like that.

      Carry on.

      --

      "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."

  23. The Power of Time Warner by pararox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Columbia Journalism Review has made this interesting report available. It shows the depth/breadth of media formats that Time Warner has control of. It's quite astounding, check it out.

    -pararox-

  24. Steve Case is a genius by jdcook · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'm a big believer in the standard counter-intuitive line on this merger: The merger is only a debacle if you were a Time-Warner share holder. The AOL people converted "assets" backed by nothing to shares in a company that actually owned stuff. And they did it by capitalizing on the ridiculous value of their stock at the height of the bubble.

    Every AOL shareholder who wasn't smart enough to sell near the top of the bubble should fall down on their knees every day thanking Steve Case for preserving as much of that value as possible.

    --
    Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
    1. Re:Steve Case is a genius by GPLDAN · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recently took a ATV tour around some farms in Kauai. Gorgeous place. It has a Star Wars missile defense research facility, and other areas that remind you that it isn't an unspoiled paradise.

      But nothing made the pit of my stomach fall farther than when the Hawaiian tour guide brought us up to a fence and made a huge gesture with his arm. "All this land here, over 5,000 acres, was bought as a private estate by Steve Case."

      Just remember, his money laundering brought him enough money to buy a huge portion of land that should be a state park. He gets to live in absolute paradise, in a gigantic mansion, as punishment for his crime.

    2. Re:Steve Case is a genius by nelsonal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      FYI, most of Hawaii is owned by one of several land trusts. Dole and the Bishops are two of the bigger ones. Beyond the beaches and than the military reserves there isn't a lot of government owned land there. Of course the Bishop land funds the Kahmehahmeha schools and those aren't all bad. Case wasn't really laundering money, he just got the long end of the stick from TimeWarner (as well as all his company's shareholders).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    3. Re:Steve Case is a genius by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ummm....what crime? You're saying that he should have violated the law and NOT sought to increase shareholder value? He was employed by the shareholders and was LEGALLY required to do the sort of thing he did. If you don't like it, then take up the issue with the US Congress. I don't like it either, but he not only has done nothing illegal; he has done what was required of him BY LAW.

      BTW, the reason rich people buy 5,000 acres is because they don't want people despoiling it. In the middle of it, instead of constructing a visitor center, they construct a home. If your concern is preservation of the natural beauty, I'd suggest that a rich man's estate, owned and administered by one man for his personal benefit, will have less impact on the environment than a public park, owned by everyone, administered by everyone, for the benefit of everyone.

    4. Re:Steve Case is a genius by Cryptnotic · · Score: 1

      Or 5000 acres divided into a housing development consisting of 20,000 quarter-acre lots each with a tract home.

      --
      My other first post is car post.
    5. Re:Steve Case is a genius by GPLDAN · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was using the term "punishment for his crime" in a sarcastic manner. He didn't commit any crime, as another poster pointed out, he converted speculative value into real value. He cashed out of a bubble. And, as another poster stretched the analogy, converting 'dirty' money into 'clean' money is laundering. Personally, I don't consider doing acquisitions for stock using 'dirty' money - it's just business. Time Warner got jobbed.

      As to your 2nd point, it's moot. As the other poster pointed out, most land in Hawaii is owned by trusts or REITs. The fact he cashed out and took a big plot isn't what made me sick, it's that he's rewarded so hansomely for what amounts to a swindle.

      And as for privately held land doing less damage than do the environment than a state park, that was summed up best by the guy who responded to you.

    6. Re:Steve Case is a genius by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Its just another example of how a system that is supposed to serve humanity is exploited.

      'Winning' the game is more important than whether or not the dynamics you used to win contribute to the intended goal of the system.

      Which is to say, I don't think the stock market's purpose is to seperate idiots from their money, nor give that money to the con man. I hate to see the market gamed like that.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    7. Re:Steve Case is a genius by Otter · · Score: 1
      And as for privately held land doing less damage than do the environment than a state park, that was summed up best by the guy who responded to you.

      I believe that guy was agreeing with dillon_rinker, not with you. His point is that the alternative to Case's buying the land isn't the state park you think is magically going to appear there, it's thousands of McMansions and condos. Sorry, Cryptnotic, if I'm misinterpreting you.

    8. Re:Steve Case is a genius by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      Or 5000 acres divided into a housing development consisting of 20,000 quarter-acre lots each with a tract home.

      And, they'll all get taxed multiple times for having 5 street addresses per house.

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
  25. Good advice by criscooil · · Score: 1
    ... what to avoid when you are faced with the task of running world's largest media outfit.

    Sniff ... yeah, that'll come in handy.
    BOOH-AH-AH-AH.

    --

    My life is an open book ... up to a point.

  26. Living well is the best revenge. by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
    > Now AOL/Time-Warner is back to being Time-Warner, the old line guys are getting revenge on the dot-com upstarts, and the whole thing seems like a bad idea gone wrong from the start.

    First off - yes, the merger made no fucking business sense whatsoever.

    Watching it unravel was a great window into two disparate (and ultimately, mutually-exclusive) corporate cultures interact.

    The most telling example was the reaction of "West Coast" (AOL/dotcom) culture with "East Coast" (Time-Warner/traditional media) culture when it came to what to do with their respective stocks/options.

    West Coast culture says "W00hoo! The business rationale for this is pretty silly, but look at our stock price! People actually believe the hype. I could cash in my options and have fuck-you money , plus a few shares left over in case things work out. AWESOME!"

    East Coast culture says "This is huge... but you can't just cash in your options -- that would take away your only motivation to make it work! Everyone'll look at you funny. Where's your loyalty? This kind of thing could get you kicked out of the country club! How could you?" (Or for 95% of East Coast employees, "What are these 'options' things again? And why do these West Coast people all seem to have them, and why are they so happy? I thought you had to be in a country club to do that sort of thing!")

    OK, I'm stereotyping both the East and West coast cultures here, but you get my drift. When the worldviews of two sets of employees are that far apart, and especially when things start to go wrong, you're going to end up with a lot of bitterness from the boardroom on down, and such a merger is a recipe for disaster even when it does make business sense.

    Was the merger a disaster? Sure. Are the old-line guys back in charge? Yup. But who really won? I'd argue that the AOL shareholders are the winners here, regardless of who's in charge of rehabilitating the broken down shell of the media giant.

    1. Re:Living well is the best revenge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AOL is based in Dulles, Virginia. You can't get much more East Coast than that. And I've met a lot of people from AOL and they are not at all like you say. The biggest difference was that they didn't wear suits (and now we don't either) but they were never your typical dot-commers.

      I'm sad to say that I think you were a little misinformed.

    2. Re:Living well is the best revenge. by dzm · · Score: 1

      What you're describing is when AOL purchased Netscape.

    3. Re:Living well is the best revenge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So true... When Time had it's first big run up in 89 (I think) when there were rumors of a Paramount merger, the stock ran up from 60 to 180. I had about 120 shares from some employee matchng fund, so I cashed them in.

      My manager told me this was a very bad idea, as it showed disloyalty to the company, and that they kept track of these things. I laughed, took the cash and paid some bills.

    4. Re:Living well is the best revenge. by ragnar · · Score: 1

      Although I agree with your stereotypes of east vs west (I'm an admitted east coast bigot), the fact is that AOL was an east coast business based out of Dulles, Virginia. That aside, us east coasters get a kick out of the "dudes" out west and how they do things. (just teasin' y'all)

      --
      -- Solaris Central - http://w
    5. Re:Living well is the best revenge. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Informative
      The most telling example was the reaction of "West Coast" (AOL/dotcom) culture with "East Coast" (Time-Warner/traditional media) culture when it came to what to do with their respective stocks/options.

      AOL is headquatered in Northern Virginia. Hardly "West Coast".

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  27. The very last page of Animal Farm [SPOILERS] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Orwellian in the sense that it is similar to something that happens in a book by George Orwell.

    Orwell's novel "Animal Farm" is a story about a revolution among the animals at a farm. They take control of the farm and establish a new order, free of oppression. There are a lot of symbols very unsubtly linking every part of the novel to the Russian Revolution, but one of the most visible is the barn.

    Upon the overthrow of the Farmer and the establishment of Animal Farm, the animals decree a "constitution" for Animal Farm, establishing the inaliable principles by which Animal Farm is to be governed and which whatever method of administration is about to be determined would have to adhere to. This constitution is painted on the side of the barn, to be kept firmly in everyone's minds. It contains a number of points, some of them protections of the liberty of the animals, some of them (for example, a prohibition on alchohol) to ensure a healthy and distinctly animalistic way of life is followed. But the foremost and unifying principle, the single dictum on which Animal Farm and all it represents is founded, is the first: ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL.

    An administration happens to be put into place where the pigs happen to hold all the power, and since this is an allegorical fairy tale, power corrupts. Gradually, the newfound freedoms of the animals cease to mean anything; gradually, the structure and way of life of the farm begins to be indistinguishable from the way it was before the revolution, only with the humans replaced with pigs. And as this happens, one by one, each of the clauses of the Constitution on the side of the barn become subtly perverted. Each guarantee the Constitution once provided the animals learn to live without; sometimes because security makes it necessary that principle become briefly abandoned, sometimes because the prosperity of the farm requires a little bending of the rules, sometimes simply because the animals wake up one day and find that the wording of one of the painted dictums on the barn is slightly different then it used to be, or is it, can you remember? And all the while, the spirit of the revolution recedes further and further from the animals' minds.

    On the very last page of the book, as the farm's oldest animals sit and try to piece out exactly what has happened, the naarator allows the reader to simply read the side of the barn. And all it says is this:

    ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
    BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

    1. Re:The very last page of Animal Farm [SPOILERS] by kalidasa · · Score: 1
      Thanks for your post. I'm well aware of the plot of Animal Farm, but the adjective "Orwellian" usually refers to ubiquitous surveillance (in reference to 1984), not to "some are more equal than others." It's rather like saying that "Machiavellian" refers to a particular interpretation of Livy rather than the concept of "ends justifying the means" - while that interpretation of Livy may be more in touch with what Machiavelli actually wrote than "ends justify the means" is, folks have pretty much restricted the use of "Machiavellian" to that more limited (and somewhat inaccurate) sense. Of course, Orwell himself might agree with your expansion of the word's meaning to include his other work.

      (By the way, you might prefer to say "dicta," rather than "dictums" - I don't think anyone actually uses "dictum" except as a loan word from Latin (like "datum")

    2. Re:The very last page of Animal Farm [SPOILERS] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I just figured I might as well splat the whole thing down there in case anyone was wandering through who hadn't read Animal Farm and wouldn't get the other posters explanation of where exactly it was coming from I do agree the article's use of "Orwellian" was a bit strange, especially given the extent to which the word has been overused of late.

      (By the way, you might prefer to say "dicta," rather than "dictums" - I don't think anyone actually uses "dictum" except as a loan word from Latin (like "datum")

      Huh... really? Some other latin loan words are pluralized in the normal english way aren't they? Hmm.. dictionary.com says either "dicta" or "dictums" is acceptable but doesn't offer a preference.

    3. Re:The very last page of Animal Farm [SPOILERS] by kalidasa · · Score: 1

      Yes, many are. But I've never actually seen "dictums." But if the dictionary you're using provides a cite for "dictums," ignore me.

  28. Hah, I don't get cardboard covers... by TBone · · Score: 2, Funny

    I get these nifty little metal boxes, about half an inch thick.

    In the famous words of one of the SNL skits, "You can put your weed in there"

    --

    This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U

    1. Re:Hah, I don't get cardboard covers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Credit where credit is due.

      "You can put your weed in there" - Adam Sandler

      Also, the line was used in The Hot Chick, a movie worth almost nothing, but still funny.

    2. Re:Hah, I don't get cardboard covers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metal boxes? I want! Never seen one, and I work for these ass-hats!

  29. A second source? Journalists? by Lispy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Those were the days... ;-)

  30. Steve Case... not a loser in my book by LinuxParanoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And - most of all - Steve Case is a big, fat loser. This was always more familiar territory for me, since that was exactly how most of the world regarded Case throughout his career. For most of it, he had always and forever been a loser."

    Watching Steve Case from a distance, he always looked like one of those underestimated but really really shrewd guys to me.

    I never paid for AOL (though I did use a free trial once), and I never owned the stock, but in my book, Steve Case is a big winner.
    A) I give him credit for being able to, on at least one occassion which I was familiar with, bring innovative technology to market. I loved his the Commmodore 64 BBS service, QuantumLink, which he later turned into AOL. It had some of the same "least common denominator" aspects as AOL, but it also could do streaming download+playing of MIDI sound files at the same time I was typing and reading in chat rooms over a 1200 baud modem. Pretty fancy for 1987 in the DOS PC era.
    B) The AOL service may have been lame and its customers clueless, but hey, Steve Case stayed focused on the customers and making stuff easy to use for them. Props for that. Even if it wasn't perfect, it was a lot better than most of the alternatives-- I could safely recommend it to friends/acquaintances for many years without having to go to their house and/or do maintenance on their PCs to get/keep it working.
    C) He managed to grow his company like a madman for well over a decade, continued to hold onto and grow the business for 6+ years despite it being wildly overvalued, and then sold it out for a huge premium 3 months before the Internet stock market bubble burst. To me that is just an incredible feat of timing and business acumen, and one that was almost totally optimal for his shareholders (albeit not Time Warner's shareholders... but hey, he was the seller, not the buyer!) That wasn't just dumb luck. He knew what he was doing. He probably didn't know the bubble would be over in 3 months, but he knew his stock was way overvalued (and not just due to some sales shenanigans.) Hey, *I* knew in 1996-1999 that AOL was overvalued, but if I were CEO, could I have picked a better time to sell out and maximize the bubble-value for my shareholders? No way!
    D) And I appreciate any money they poured into Mozilla.

    So no, I don't think Steve Case is a loser.

    --LP

    1. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      didn't aol cause the death of netscape to begin with?

    2. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Question from the floor:

      Who believes that part of the bubble bursting may have stemmed from the AOL/TW merger? TW suddenly realizes "Holy shit, these people just bought us with fake money".

      Suddenly, everyone realizes that the impossible has happened (all that fake value has purchased real value) and the system corrects itself by removing all other fake value.

      I mean, everyone I know (business and geek alike) knew it was a bubble, but that knowledge didn't burst it. Perhaps it took a real economic incident to convince the 'system' of the problem?

    3. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One could argue that AOL killed Netscape. However, basically, Netscape was dead when they sold out to AOL. Anything afterwards was just messing with the corpse.

    4. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by plover · · Score: 1
      If your theory is true (and I think it's a very wise observation) don't you think it would have been true for the first of ANY random overvalued dot-com to cash in? Sure, Case is the guy who did it using AOL, but I don't think you can blanket blame him personally for the collapse. I think that any of the financially significant dot-coms of the era could have raided any random brick-and-mortar megacorp and caused the same fallout.

      Perhaps the bubble would have collapsed more slowly if it had been a series of smaller companies acquiring other smaller firms. But I think it was going to collapse regardless -- it's just a matter of who saw it coming first, and who could best take advantage of the situation.

      --
      John
    5. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by justins · · Score: 1
      To me that is just an incredible feat of timing and business acumen, and one that was almost totally optimal for his shareholders (albeit not Time Warner's shareholders... but hey, he was the seller, not the buyer!)

      Didn't Time Warner and AOL shareholders both get, um, AOL-Time Warner stock as a result of the deal? You know, the stock whose value plummeted?
      --
      Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
    6. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't really trying to assign blame. In fact, if anything, we owe Case for popping the bubble and chasing the Johnny-come-lately's out of the market.

      Before the burst, there were thousands of people who went into IT 'for the money' or 'because there are jobs in it'. I should know, I went to school with a lot of people who had no love for computing, no knack for it, just did it because that's where the jobs were. Rather, that's where the money was.

      Today, I'm happily employed. Working my ass off, but that's what I always expected. No gravy-train, no free ride. I can't say the same for a lot of my less-competent classmates.

    7. Re:Steve Case... not a loser in my book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't Time Warner and AOL shareholders both get, um, AOL-Time Warner stock as a result of the deal? You know, the stock whose value plummeted?

      Yes, but AOL shareholders received a stock that had much more underlying inherent value. Thus the pain AOL shareholders have felt post-bubble has been insulated somewhat by the Time Warner underlying revenue/earnings potentials. Also the transaction itself gave AOL shareholders a great brief opportunity to decide whether they really wanted to stay in the stock of the now-oddly-merged entity. Anybody who got out then is thanking their lucky stars (or Steve Case).

      --LP

  31. In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only reason all of these people are calling Steve Case a "loser" is because he beat them.

  32. Way to mangle a good joke... by artemis67 · · Score: 5, Informative

    An excerpt from "How Ronald Reagan Changed My Life" by Peter Robinson

    Chapter One
    The Pony In the Dung Heap
    When Life Buries You, Dig
    Journal Entry, June 2002:

    Over lunch today I asked Ed Meese about one of Reagan's favorite jokes. "The pony joke?" Meese replied. "Sure I remember it. If I heard him tell it once, I heard him tell it a thousand times."

    The joke concerns twin boys of five or six. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities -- one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist -- their parents took them to a psychiatrist.

    First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. "What's the matter?" the psychiatrist asked, baffled. "Don't you want to play with any of the toys?" "Yes," the little boy bawled, "but if I did I'd only break them."

    Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his out look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. "What do you think you're doing?" the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. "With all this manure," the little boy replied, beaming, "there must be a pony in here somewhere!"

    "Reagan told the joke so often," Meese said, chuckling, "that it got to be kind of a joke with the rest of us. Whenever something would go wrong, somebody on the staff would be sure to say, "There must be a pony in here somewhere.'"

  33. The tomatometer rating by UrgleHoth · · Score: 1

    First thing I think of is the tomatometer rating for games. Fresh games are rated at least an 8 (instead of 6 for movies), otherwise most games would be recommended.

    --

    Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
  34. Buying hard goods with soft money by Clod9 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The greatest lesson I learned watching this merger was that you CAN convert fake wealth to real wealth.
    By "fake wealth" I mean paper wealth, like the stock price of a company or the price of any other paper or electronic financial instrument.
    You buy low and, if you get lucky, the price goes up; and if you can't convert all that wealth to cash, instead you buy a "real company", lots of real estate, or something else with intrinsic value.
    Then, even if your original business goes belly up (like AOL's is doing) you are sitting pretty.

    Time Warner's management and stockholders made a huge mistake, because they were greedy. But if I'm ever in AOL's shoes, I'd do exactly the same thing.

  35. mod parent (ac) up - interesting by websensei · · Score: 1

    this is an interesting theory, and imho may have some merit. it took a catalyst to bring the whole thing down....

    --

    La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
  36. Case done good for his stockholders by methano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I figure that Steve Case is no dummy and that he saw that his company was worth much, much less than its market cap. So he looked around and figured out how to turn its overblown value into something that would last a bit longer. He would use the "synergy" thing to sell it. If he hadn't done the merger, his shareholders would have taken a big bath when the bubble burst. He was beholden to his shareholders, not TW's. After the merger, his shareholders held more real value than before. It's like they had a big pot luck dinner with Time-Warner, except that only Time-Warner brought any food.

  37. Its always important to research investments by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 1

    One should always know alot about a company before investing in them. Mutual funds help by adding diversity and professional management, but the investor should still note what stocks the fund is in to make sure it is being managed reasonably.

    This deal helped some investors and hurt others. This is not atypical in the tech sector. Here is another example. Note the extremely high stock price in Jan of '00, just before the recession began later that year, and compare to the current price. Management of a major corporation can be a tricky thing. Buyer beware.

    1. Re:Its always important to research investments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a positive contribution from a dedicated, long-time positive contributor. He has told us many times in his deleted journals how much he loves this place and would love to make many positive contributions to this site of ours if only we would listen to his anti-Japanese, pro-NGage love notes.

      He has never labeled himself as a troll. He has never stated that he posts garbage in revenge for having been dismissed as such by the slashdot community.

      Up is down.

      Please moderate this karma pimp up for correctly stating that you should be mindful of the way you invest your money. That is very insightful, don't you think? After all, his karma has seen decline in recent days because of the crap limit, so let's boost this man's karma and enjoy more posts like this, and others, for years to come.

      Subscribed mods: Please make sure to note how friendly this gentleman has been throughout time.

      Excerpts from Mike Hawk's "Deleted Journal Gems":

      "Slashdot has lost a valuable industry insider."
      "That's when I decided to flood Slashdot."
      "Goodbye to Slashdot forever."
      "Slashdot has a friend for life in Mike Hawk"
      "I said I don't intend to contribute in a positive manner. You're dense kid." (soon to be added to the list)

    2. Re:Its always important to research investments by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 1

      Man, you missed the joke. The link is to the VA Software stock quote 5 year history. And man its funny.

  38. Why the Internet bubble collapsed when it did... by LinuxParanoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My private theory is that the bubble collapse is actually a side-effect of Y2K.

    In two ways:
    1) Tech spending boomed before Y2K as companies spent huge amounts on both hardware and software efforts to make sure they were ready for Y2K, had backup systems, etc. There was a huge drop in IT spending right after Y2K since companies already had all the equipment they needed. This hammered Q1 earnings for tech stocks in March/April and boom, the Internet bubble burst. This fact (reduced revenue and profits of tech firms) is well-documented in earnings reports of that time frame. I'm very surprised this hasn't gotten more press, other than that nobody wants to give the naysayers any credit for maybe have been, in some way they never anticipated, right.
    2) The Federal Reserve had flooded the money supply right around Y2K to ensure there were no financial liquidity crises. When they re-tightened up (or at least stopped increasing the money supply) post-Y2K... boom, instant fiscal tightening contributing to a recession. I've never seen this documented, at least the re-tightened part, so take it with a grain of salt.

    --LP

  39. Ted Turner by DoctorDeath · · Score: 1

    Ted said just a few weeks ago that he was duped then dumped in the merger deal. He went on to say how he was screwed on the deal and that he was known as the guy at the end of the hall because he refused to move out of his offices. He was the ghost walking the halls. He built his media and sports empire from a small local TV station in Atlanta into a major entertainment giant, only to be locked out of all the decisions and plans. Personally I will miss Ted's antics and genius.

    --
    Sig temporarily out of service.
  40. Best Merger Ever by tony1c · · Score: 1

    It's all a matter of perspective really: if you were an AOL shareholder this is the best possible thing that could have happened. Basically you got to trade in your vastly overinflated dot-com dollars for something much more realistically valued. Of course TW shareholders would have the opposite perspective. You've got to give Case credit for that - he really couldn't have swung a better deal for the AOL owners.

  41. "Intrinsic value?" by rlglende · · Score: 1


    This whole thread is filled with hind-sight discussions of whose stock was "really" worth the stock price, and who was proved to be brilliant by events, etc.

    In the world-as-we-live-it, minute-by-minute, a thing is worth exactly what you can sell for at that minute.

    If you guys are so GD fore-sighted, you should all be making serious fortunes in the stock market, bond market, futures markets, etc.

    How many of you geniuses actually made $ from the AOL-TW merger?

    Lew

    --
    "The Constitution, the WHOLE Constitution, and nothing but the CONSTITUTION."
  42. Parent is not a troll. by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 2
    He's accurate and on target. the AOLTW disaster is bad, but the horror Carly has visited upon HP is also going to be book-worthy.

    After Carly's idiotic invasion of Compaq, long term employees at HP LOST a week's vacation. Then she set the pay curves to match Compaq's saving the company millions (true) but basically condemning thousands of employees to work at HP for the rest of their days with little hope of ever getting another raise. In the meantime, Carly stuffs her greedy pockets with millions in cash.

    No- the parent is not a troll, and I urge someone with points to give it a 5 / insightful, because the book on Carly has yet to be written, and it will prove that she, like Case, is just a big fat loser.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  43. Except... by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Except for the fact that there is nothing "dirty" about stock gains. Your analogy is seriously flawed.

    Capital appreciation (stock gains) is, in the short term, tied directly to perception but over the long term, it more accurately reflects the real underlying value of the company. Nowhere in any of the many many finance classes I took for my MBA, can I find any reference to dirty money laundering being compared to stocks. Yes, fraud exists for sure, but I don't think you are suggesting that. You have implied that the sole fact of AOL having a high stock price means there is something "dirty" going on. And that, my friend, is just simply not the case.

    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with stock gains and capital appreciation. After all, Case and Levin didn't "vote" the price of AOL stock -- the market did. And the market, which is made up of individuals, decided the price of AOL/TW should be sky high. It's only natural (and expected) that Case would maximize his opportunities when the market places such a high value on his underlying company.

    To do otherwise would be crazy (and he would be fired).

    1. Re:Except... by HyperbolicParabaloid · · Score: 1

      I never suggested that there was anything the least bit illegal about the merger. And your MBS classes are right, just like in my CFA training. The dot com boom and bust clearly demonstrate that PUBLIC perception diverged wildly from actual underlying value. I'm sure some dot com entreprenuers didn't really get this, but many must have, including Steve Case.
      My analogy does not depend on AOLs stock value being illegal; it depends on Steve Case knowing that AOL stock was of limited value: eventually it would sink like a stone. So he needed to convert it (launder it) into something of more substance.
      It is of course, rational for him to do this. Just as it is rational for a drug king pin to use his tainted cash to buy a legitimate business because his drug money is simply less valuable.

      --


      -------------------------
      A person of moderate zeal
  44. Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    As of 1521 Pacific Daylight Time, this post was moderated (Score:5, Troll) when the score included your karma bonus point. This post was made to commemorate this remarkable achievement.

    Johnny, tell him what he's won!

  45. Re:Why the Internet bubble collapsed when it did.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One problem with scenario 1:

    The real .com's never had any earnings to speak of, so why would Q1-Y2K's lack of earnings make any real difference?

    Your theory has some merits, but as the parent AC post said, everyone knew it was a bubble. Poor earnings wasn't a new thing in that quarter, it was pretty much in line with bubble-expectations.

  46. Re:Why the Internet bubble collapsed when it did.. by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Regarding the Y2K part of your hypothesis:

    Just before I graduated from college in 98 (a little Y2K nostalgia for ya), I interviewed with a lot of consulting firms who were in a hiring frenzy. It didn't take me long to sense the pattern and start asking them, "What's your strategy for keeping me off the bench once Y2K has come and gone?" None of the people I asked had a good answer. It was pretty obvious they had never once considered that businesses might need less outside help once The Mother of All Bugs was finally squashed.

  47. Re:Why 6/10? - 'Blackmail' pure and simple. by iamcf13 · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    This is terrible!

    Such conduct renders ratings meaningless.

    There is no 'room' for a 'bell curve' which would give meaningful results.

    When I read the parent, I immediately thought of this:


    [1] Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
    [2] And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
    [3] And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
    [4] They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
    [5] Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
    [6] This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
    [7] So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
    [8] And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
    [9] And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
    [10] When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
    [11] She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    -- John 8:1-11 of the KJV Bible at umich.edu

  48. Re:Why the Internet bubble collapsed when it did.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A reasonable question. But the tech stock indexes and large-cap leaders were not largely driven by dot com stocks (Amazon), but by Sun Microsystems, Cisco, Oracle, etc. (MS/Intel were more stable than those for obvious reasons.) I'm speaking of the drop in revenues and earnings those guys experienced. In a speculative gold rush, the people making shovels are the more sure plays for who makes the money. When those guys dropped, the momentum left the entire market. Everyone knew it was a bubble, but nobody knew when it would end and people who should know (Jeffrey Vinik, Fidelity Magellen manager) has famously shown they didn't know. The first quarter of earnings post-Y2K marked a new huge break in momentum for tech stocks.

    At least that's my theory. I was not actively trading stocks at the time; I was more of a sideline watcher.

    --LP

  49. Re:Why 6/10? - 'Blackmail' pure and simple.rebutal by iamcf13 · · Score: 1

    I'll bet if I had just said:

    The Bible says: He that is without sin cast the first stone.

    and left it at that, I wouldn't have had the parent post modded offtopic.

    However, I opted to cite the entire passage as that is what I thought about when reading the 'grandparent' post and to avoid:

    A text taken out of context becomes a pretext.

    Also, this passage, to me, best shows the fallability of man and the hipocracy of perfectionism--traits that continue to haunt mankind to the present day....