Fedora Core 2 Test 3 Released

Wee writes "I just got an email from Bill Nottingham of Red Hat letting me know that the third and final test release of Fedora Core 2 is now available. The announcement mentions the big changes are SELinux being disabled by default, that on-and-off problem with install CD1 not booting should be fixed, and anaconda now is sporting 31 languages. The mirrors look like they are opening slowly but surely, and bug reports are always appreciated."

Comments

Great!

[daishin]

Do they plan these releases purposely to mess with those poor lower bandwith users? I knew of a time where I tried to download Slackware only to see it go up a number in version, I finally gave out and ordered from cheapbytes, well youre just all cruel!

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have timed it really poorly for slackware because releases have been far and few between. 8.1 - 9.0 - 9 months. 9.0 - 9.1 - 6 months. And there has been no new release in 6 months.

Re:Great!

[Cylix]

That was the thing with slackware though...it wasn't really version number centric. You just had to update your slackware install.

I think this quote from his faq stated it best.

First off, I think I forgot to count some time ago. If I'd started on 6.0 and made every release a major version (I think that's how Linux releases are made these days, right? ;), we would be on Slackware 47 by now. (it would actually be in the 20s somewhere if we'd gone 1, 2, 3...)

Please use BitTorrent!!!

[Chester K]

FC2-test3-binary-i386.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for i386. 2.1GB 2004-4-27

FC2-test3-src-i386.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 source iso images for i386. 2.0GB 2004-4-27

FC2-test3-binary-x86_64.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for x86_64. 2.1GB 2004-4-27

FC2-test3-src-x86_64.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 source iso images for x86_64. 1.9GB 2004-4-27

FC2-test3-x86_64-DVD.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 DVD iso image for x86_64. 4.0GB 2004-4-27

FC2-test3-i386-DVD.torrent Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 DVD iso image for i386. 4.1GB 2004-4-27

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[ObviousGuy]

Actually, it shows a very important split in the Linux distro world that began to emerge back around 2001 when RedHat developed its certification system and Debian started to catch on in earnest. On the RedHat side we have a group of distros dedicated to making Linux easier for the user to use, more powerful for the admins to admin, and more up to date for the up-to-daters to update. On the Debian side you have people focused on making distributions that are not encumbered by IP violations.

As Debian makes itself more and more a closed system (by restricting itself from outside sources) and RedHat shows itself to be a more reliable distribution vendor (by releasing very modern operating system versions), it remains to be seen whether the Linux ecosystem can allow for two completely dichotomous memes to exist and flourish.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[rgmoore]

I think that you're seeing a false dichotomy. On the Debian side, you have a distribution that's strongly dedicated to making systems that are easy to admin (e.g. apt for package management) and can be kept very up-to-date by running unstable or testing. On the RedHat side, you have a distribution that refuses to distribute an mp3 decoder or NTFS support because of worries about IP issues. AFAIK, Fedora includes only software that's available under OSS licenses, and is actually quite proud of this fact.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[drinkypoo]

Nice karma whoring, you even managed to mix gentoo in there, without talking about gentoo! My hat is off to you sir.

RedHat is showing itself to be a less reliable distribution vendor, by canning one distribution (free RedHat) and unleashing the unstable Fedora betas which one day will become a product which you must pay for.

Granted, you can run RHEL without a license, though you will have a hard time supporting it.

Finally, there are many Linux distributions, not just two. Gentoo has become a major player - I'll mention it even if you won't. Let us not forget Novell and SuSe, either. And Slackware will never die!

Of course, for some people, like those who want Oracle support, there is only one distribution of Linux, and it is redhat. So I'm not sure either of us has managed to prove anything here, except that we have too much free time on our hands.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[MobyTurbo]

On the RedHat side we have a group of distros dedicated to making Linux easier for the user to use, more powerful for the admins to admin, and more up to date for the up-to-daters to update. On the Debian side you have people focused on making distributions that are not encumbered by IP violations.

The difference isn't so clear-cut. Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat's revenue-generating product, unlike Fedora isn't so "up to date", and Red Hat also is very "religious" about the GPL, up to not including mp3 plugins for xmms. Fedora is like Debian Unstable, not a production system and bleeding-edge, RHEL is like Debian Stable, a seldom-updated except for security reasons distribution for stability.

it remains to be seen whether the Linux ecosystem can allow for two completely dichotomous memes to exist and flourish.

There are not just two distros, there are over a hundred, and many of the most used ones flourish enough to thrive. Slackware, for example, has been around for longer than Debian and Red Hat, and (except for the period where they had the libc5 problem) has become just as up to date as its competition. It has it's own niche, it's very Unix-like, is not especially bloated (though 9.1 for the first time grew to two installation CDs because of GNOME and KDE growing so big.) and does not have dependency hell by avoiding dependency checking altogeather. (I am posting this in Slackware right now, but I've used other distros so I know their strengths and weaknesses.)

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Erwos]

"On the Debian side you have people focused on making distributions that are not encumbered by IP violations."

Just to be fair, both Mandrake and Red Hat are _totally free (as in freedom)_ distributions. Debian, in a way, is worse, since they do include non-free stuff in their repositories.

-Erwos

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[buysse]

does not have dependency hell by avoiding dependency checking altogeather.

Why is this considered a good thing? Yes, the dependency trap does make it more difficult to work with RPM -- get the source RPM, rpmbuild --rebuild it, install the resulting binary. Dependencies on specific library versions you don't have are generally solved. I understand that it doesn't help you run Gnome 2.6 on Redhat 7.3. You could recompile the whole system for that, but if that's what you need, you're better off running Gentoo where the system will take care of recompiling the entire tree for you.

Basically, just because Slack doesn't enforce dependencies does *not* mean they aren't there. Versioning of shared libraries is done for a reason.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[black mariah]

Fedora will never be a for-pay product. It is the community-driven REPLACEMENT for free Redhat. They canned free Redhat in order to better separate RHEL and Fedora. Also, unstable is a relative term. I've been using FC1 for months without any problems.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Pros_n_Cons]

RedHat is showing itself to be a less reliable distribution vendor
How? FC1 had a snag with my soundcard but thats cause my motherboard came out the same month as FC1 so I had to use alsa drivers.

by canning one distribution (free RedHat) and unleashing the unstable Fedora betas
This is a troll, everyone knows by now what happened, FC1 had twice as much testing as any previous red hat release except enterprise.(check release times) "unstable betas" Think about that for a second would you?

Fedora betas which one day will become a product which you must pay for.
Mind posting a link please? Didn't think so.
I've got a link for you here though. Take a look at the three NON objectives peticularly:
1. Slow rate of change.
2. Enabling commercial support, particularly Service Level Agreements.
3. Being a dumping ground for unmaintained or poorly designed software.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[drinkypoo]

Fedora is the beta testing grounds for what will later become a release of Redhat. In other words, you are doing beta testing for a product which you will have to pay for.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[pyros]

Oracle supports Suse too. In fact, they build their Linux products on Suse, not Red Hat.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[keesh]

The funny thing is, Gentoo 2004.1 will be out in about six hours :)

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[MobyTurbo]

Why is this considered a good thing? Yes, the dependency trap does make it more difficult to work with RPM -- get the source RPM, rpmbuild --rebuild it, install the resulting binary

Frequently there *is* no source rpm, just the original source. Slackware makes using source of programs, when neccesary, simple without corrupting dependency checking, with RPM you'll often get false missing dependency warnings as a result so it's practical to never use source, or RPMs, outside of what your distribution provides. BTW, in my experience dependencies are usually met because Slackware includes the some of the most common libraries, and when it doesn't the ./configure program will find out what's missing - just what rpm does except not with the unbypassable-without-sideffects dependency database.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[AstroDrabb]

RedHat is showing itself to be a less reliable distribution vendor, by canning one distribution (free RedHat) and unleashing the unstable Fedora betas which one day will become a product which you must pay for.

And just how is that being less reliable? RH has chosen to to concentrate on the enterprise market and slow down their release cycles. The more active development is happening in Fedora. Fedora Core 1 is extremely stable for me. Fedora Core 2 is still in testing, so you cannot expect it to be totally stable yet.

Gentoo has become a major player

While Gentoo is nice and scratches a certain itch for a certain type of user, I would not call it a major player. When it comes to "big" industry support you have Red Hat or SuSE that other companies like IBM, Oracle, HP, People Soft, SAP, etc are supporting. It all comes down to your needs. Pick which distro fits your needs. You could run some enterprise apps under other Linux distros, though you would not get support. For example, you can get Oracle to run under Gentoo, though it would be silly since after paying all that money for Oracle, you would be wasting your support contract.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Nailer]

The difference isn't so clear-cut. Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat's revenue-generating product, unlike Fedora isn't so "up to date"

It comes out every 18 months - that's still faster than a lot of distros (it's supported for 5 years).

There are not just two distros, there are over a hundred, and many of the most used ones flourish enough to thrive.

Certainly, but I believe the parent poster was talking about two different, I guess, ideaologies. I'd still agree with you though - there's more similarities between Red Hat and Debian than differences, and as a Red Hat user I can clearly see its my preferred distro which is doing most of the changing... (this is a Good Thing)...

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[AstroDrabb]

Wront. The test releases of Fedora is where all the testing happens. Once it gets to an official release it is pretty darn stable. Fedora Core 1 is rock solid for me.

Also, just how in the world do you figure Fedora Core users are testing a product they will have to pay for? Fedora Core will always be open and free, and just why would a Fedora Core user pay for RHEL? Most/all RHEL users are not running Fedora on thier servers if they paid for RHEL. Please explain your logic where you think a Fedora user will ever have to pay money? Fedora is geared for home users or users that do not want to pay for RHEL. RHEL is for paying users that want the support. The two are totally different. A Fedora user will never have to pay RH and upgrade to RHEL.

Redhat also has some of their top developers very active in Fedora development. In exchange for the community helping in that development, they get a free OS, called Fedora. Again, Fedora users will never have to pay RH a dime. Your post is way off base.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Tony-A]

Fedora is the beta testing grounds for what will later become a release of Redhat. In other words, you are doing beta testing for a product which you will have to pay for.

More like doing beta testing for a product which somebody else will have to pay for.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[salimma]

Fedora is the beta testing grounds for what will later become a release of Redhat

Only in the sense that Debian is the beta testing ground for Xandros, Libranet etc.

Progeny will even sell you support for Fedora, so what are you complaining about? Don't like it, don't use it, fine, but there are people like me who use and help test Fedora that do not appreciate your FUD.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[pyros]

you don't even need a src rpm, all it has is the source .tar.gz, any optional patches, and the spec file. If the source .tar.gz has the spec file in it, you can build the rpm without even extracting it, using `rpmbuild -tb source.tar.gz`.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Lord Kano]

RedHat is showing itself to be a less reliable distribution vendor, by canning one distribution (free RedHat) and unleashing the unstable Fedora betas which one day will become a product which you must pay for.

I won't beta test Red Hat's distro for free.

Every day I am happier than the one before that I jumped ship back at Red Hat 6.2.

Finally, there are many Linux distributions, not just two. Gentoo has become a major player - I'll mention it even if you won't. Let us not forget Novell and SuSe, either. And Slackware will never die!

Ahem...Mandrake...

LK

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[MobyTurbo]

you don't even need a src rpm, all it has is the source .tar.gz, any optional patches, and the spec file.

Spec files aren't available universally or even commonly.

`rpmbuild -tb source.tar.gz`.

Thanks for the tip.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[MobyTurbo]

It [RHEL] comes out every 18 months - that's still faster than a lot of distros (it's supported for 5 years).

A lot? Most distros come out every 9 months and some every 6 months or less, though there are a few such as Turbo Linux or the now-dead Caldera that have a similar timetable to that. (They are also aimed at the same market that RHEL is aimed at.) By the way, the effort to make a free enterprise Linux based on Debian headed by Bruce Perens (what's it called again?) seems like an excellent idea, the slower release cycle of Debian makes it a good distro to built that on.

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Dunkirk]

Please mod parent up!!!

Re:Let's keep Gentoo out of this! ;-)

[Lumpy]

We have oracle running on Mandrake 10.0

no you dont get official pay for support. but who cares if you have competent staff.

NVidia Drivers

[DAldredge]

Does anyone know what you have to do to get the NVidia 3d accelerated drives working? Evertime I start X with the nvidia driver it hangs my system, the nv driver doesn't exhibit this behavior. This is on a dual athlon Tyan s2460 system.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[Neil Blender]

Does anyone know what you have to do to get the NVidia 3d accelerated drives working?

Edit your XF86Config file (correctly.)

Re:NVidia Drivers

[DAldredge]

I have, didn't work. I made the exact changes as specified in the readme and it still crashes. The nvidia drivers worked perfectly under FC1.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[justsomebody]

Nothing, they don't work and it's not Fedora bug it's new kernel feature. As from 2.6.5 no kernel will work with them. Take Fedora as the first distro that actualy takes this step.

At least until NVidia finally resolves 4KSTACKS bug. Up to 2.6.5 kernels had this as feature. Now it's gone, as in bye bye.

NVidia please fix this bug, I have FC2 to install

Re:NVidia Drivers

[DAldredge]

Thank you. Guess no HQ bzflag tonight. :-

Re:NVidia Drivers

[justsomebody]

wrong, this was solution for every distro until now.

Read my post below or even better, read fedora news.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[jjackson]

I have the NVidia drivers working on the 2.6.5 kernel under FC1. The 4k stacks is part of the Red Hat patch set. NVidia also has real problems with SELinux fully enabled.

I tried FC2 test 2 on my Toshiba laptop and after several hours of tweaking and recompiling I was starting to get the feeling I was installing Gentoo. FC2 test 2 was horribly broken on my laptop... this was immediately evident when on the very first boot of the system, Kudzu sent the computer into deep guru meditation with a blue text screen full of high ASCII chars.

You simply need to install a vanilla kernel to get the NVidia driver working.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[rickbrodie]

If you can, then just download the love-sources kernel. It's very bleeding edge, using the mm-sources and adding a few more patches on top. It specifically fixes the nvidia thing along with lots of other little problems.

The maintainer, steel300 is great and tries to satisfy as many requests as possible.

More information
Link to the patch and ebuild

Re:NVidia Drivers

[justsomebody]

Here you can read complete story about 4KSTACKS


Maybe you got it to set up now but if you read posts you can see what I
talked about

Re:NVidia Drivers

[phreak03]

Yah, some of the 2.6 patches are kinda brutal to nvidia drivers.
2.6.3-8mdk seems to like them a lot though (finnaly, i can play Tux racer in all its glory...)

For those of you wounder WTF you need a vid card, Go try Enemy territory, fun game (urmpi, from the PLF repository)

Re:NVidia Drivers

[minion]

This is on a dual athlon Tyan s2460 system.

Have you ever had this machine running Windows? I have that same board, and a certain revision of that board WILL NOT run an NVidia card higher than a GeForce2 GTS/PRO. There was a problem delivering enough current to the AGP slot, which the higher GeForce cards required. I happen to be the lucky guy who had the board with the bad revision. The dual system is now my fileserver, as no one wanted it for anything else (certianly not good for gaming).

Re:NVidia Drivers

[Brian Stretch]

I was able to use the nVidia drivers under 32-bit Fedora by compiling a plain 2.6.6rc2 kernel (using /usr/src/lin*/configs/kernel*.config copied to .config as a starting point) and using the minion.de patches (hmm, might not have been necessary for 32-bit...). For 64-bit FC2T3, no kernel recompilation is required but the minion.de patch definitely is. UT2004 ran under both (UT needs patching to keep it from segfaulting at random but that's a separate issue that I haven't tackled yet). More here.

FC2 Test 2 had problems, but Test 3 appears to be pretty solid.

I'd like to see nVidia release updated drivers regardless. They'll have to soon, what with the GeForce 6800 series launch.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[adrianbaugh]

Ah, jolly good. More drastic changes to the way the kernel works in the middle of a "stable" series. Either kernels should still be being released as 2.5.x or 2.7.0 should have been forked.

Re:NVidia Drivers

[DAldredge]

I have ran Windows 2000 pro on it in the past with A Nvidia GF3 Ti 200. I don't know what revision they board is and my written docs for it are at the bottom of a 6 foot tall stack of boxes full of books. :->

Red Hat

[PeaceTank]

Ever since Red Hat died (sob) i've been kind of up in the air on distro's. I'm currently running Debian, but I decided that I'm going to at least try Fedora. I've tried Test 2, and overall, I was impressed. Other than the fact that they still have mp3 support disabled, it's a great distro. Still it lacks the amazing 'apt-get' feature that makes me love debian. I do like that it comes with Gnome pre-installed, since gnome can be a real pain to install otherwise, and the 2.6 kernel is nice. Wish somebody would just combine debian and Fedora and make the uber distro with a beatiful graphical installer like Fedora, and all the power of apt-get like Debian. For now, though, I'll just have to wait.

Re:Red Hat

[Professor Cool Linux]

you can have apt-get for fedora...
http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FedoraHOWTO
http://www.brandonhutchinson.com/Fedora_apt_and_yu m_repositories.html

Re:Red Hat

[Mdalek]

Still it lacks the amazing 'apt-get' feature that makes me love debian.
apt is available for fedora core and older rh versions

Re:Red Hat

[IpsissimusMarr]

An RPM build of apt-get for Fedora is available at FreshRPMS. You can also install Synaptic which is a graphical GUI for apt-get.
Its all there for ya.

Re:Red Hat

[rgmoore]

apt is available for Fedora, though it isn't included in the install. You can download it from Fedora.us, which also has some instructions on configuring it. You might also want to consider using yum, which is included by default. yum's capabilities are very similar to apt's, including all the good stuff like automatically resolving and downloading dependencies, so it's definitely worth learning. I find that yum is good enough that the first thing I do when installing Fedora is to disable up2date.

Re:Red Hat

[linuxpyro]

I just built an AMD MP 2800 dually. I tried RedHat 8 and 9.0, but both crashed often. I switched to Fedora Core 1, and now I have no problem whatsoever. I can't wait till FC2 comes out in the stable version.

Re:Red Hat

[prockcore]

Still it lacks the amazing 'apt-get' feature that makes me love debian.

What makes yum less amazing than 'apt-get'? They appear to do the same thing.

Re:Red Hat

[pyros]

What makes yum less amazing than 'apt-get'? They appear to do the same thing.

As lame as it might sound to say, a graphical front-end like synaptic is what makes apt better, in my opinion. On a headless server it doesn't make a difference, but when I'm using my desktop, I don't want to fire up a shell and su to root (or setup sudo). I just want a nice pointy/clicky app to do package management. And no, system-config-packages doesn't cut it, it can't handle dependencies for anything not in the official Fedora Core package set.

Re:Red Hat

[prockcore]

I just want a nice pointy/clicky app to do package management.

Perfectly understandable. up2date on fedora uses yum as its backend... and it's all pointy/clicky. Even has an applet that turns red when there are new packages.

Re:Red Hat

[pyros]

Perfectly understandable. up2date on fedora uses yum as its backend... and it's all pointy/clicky. Even has an applet that turns red when there are new packages.

yeah, but that only does updates. I can't launch it to install new applications or remove installed ones. At least, I don't know of a way to. Personally I configure up2date with the same set of sources as apt (up2date supports apt repositories), and use the applet to know when an update is available. I usually just use up2date-gnome to apply the updates, since it works pretty well. But I use apt/synaptic to install new apps or remove installed apps due to the previously mentioned limitations of system-config-applications. If they would just make that application use /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources and build a dependency list on-the-fly, I wouldn't need apt/synaptic.

Re:Red Hat

[asciiRider]

This always cracks me up. Millions of hours of work go into an open source unix - and some idiot complains about not having mp3 support available out of the box.

Re:Red Hat

[salimma]

The GUI for up2date lacks the ability to install new packages, but apart from that it's quite nice, yes.

Re:Red Hat

[AstroDrabb]

Yum lacks a GUI front-end, apt has synaptic, which makes searching through 1,000's of packages much easier. Also, apt is about 100x faster them yum. Try to install about 50 packages with yum and you wil see what I mean. I tried to install about 100 packages with yum and it took about 15 minutes just to hanlde the dependencies before it even started to install anything! Trying the same 100 packages with apt, the dependencies were done in about 20 seconds before the install started. I think the only reason Fedora went with yum by default over apt is because yum came out of Redhat. apt is far better overall IMHO.

Re:Red Hat

[juhaz]

Dependency checking is (sometimes, I think it's heavily affected by how complicated the dependencies are) kind of slow, true, as is fetching the package data because they're all in separate header files (that has to be pretty hard on web server too), but other than those two bad bottlenecks, 100x slower is bull.

Yum did not come from RedHat, nor is it any more native to RH than apt4rpm is. It came out of Duke University, and is heavily modified version of Yellowdog Updater (yup). Even the name stands for that, "Yellowdog Updater, Modified".

If I'd have to make a guess, RH/Fedora chose it because they love all things Python.

Re:Red Hat

[AstroDrabb]

100x slower is bull

No it is not. The installing of the packages is the same since that is more dependant on the speed of your hard disk. However, apt kills yum in downloading the required info for packages and dependency handling. Again, one test I did was 15 minutes or so for yum vs 20 seconds or so for apt.

If I'd have to make a guess, RH/Fedora chose it because they love all things Python

Yes, that was my bad. I remember there was some reason why the people at RH picked yum by default. Though I personally wish they picked apt. Apt is faster and has a much better front-end GUI (synaptic) where yum has none.

Re:Red Hat

[mcrbids]

How well does apt-get for RPM compare with apt-get for Debian?

Are they really comparable?

As a user of yum on FC1, I'd really like to know. Why did I choose yum? Mainly because somebody I know used it and liked it, so I tried it, and liked it so much I set up my own yum repository mirror.

Does using apt-get really offer any benefit over yum? Doesn't apt-get simply mine the same RPM repositories surveyed when doing updates with yum?

Any intelligent response would be highly appreciated.

Re:Red Hat

[hdparm]

apt on FC1 works great. Apart from Fedora's repository, I also use couple of others:

# rpm.livna.org repositories
rpm http://rpm.livna.org/ fedora/1/i386 stable unstable testing
rpm-src http://rpm.livna.org/ fedora/1/i386 stable unstable testing
# dag's repository
rpm http://apt.sw.be redhat/fc1/en/i386 dag

Added bonus is always Synaptic - it's great to show to new Linux users how easy is it to install/update software.

Re:Red Hat

[sd4l]

Ever since Red Hat died (sob) i've been kind of up in the air on distro's

I know that feeling. I installed Fedora Core 1 on a couple of machines at work after it was released (as I felt I should be loyal to Red Hat and try it's latest offering - even though there was community involvement, it's still mainly Red Hat AFAIK).

To be honest, my opinion of it was not good - I seemed to have all sorts of problems with applications not working (VMWare seems to ring a bell).

So those machines got wiped and RH9 re-installed on them.

I then started my search for a new distro....

I tried Debian (had some wierd problems with the installer) - no. I tried Mandrake - yuk! :-)

I finally decided (about a month ago) to have a go with Gentoo. I'd read good things about it, OK, it has a hurdle - long compile times, but hey, I was in no rush to get a box up and running.

So install it I did. To cut a long story short - WOW! It's nice to be able to run a 2.6.5 Kernel with GNOME 2.6 on X.org.

I'm now migrating all our work machines to it.

So, if you're a technically-able Red Hat user, give Gentoo a go... It's great and the community is amazingly helpful. It's Linux how it used to be - a community effort without most of the politics

Re:Red Hat

[gunga]

It could make for an interesting project: get synaptic to work with yum. I have no idea how feasible it would be, but there are always people asking for an interesting contribution to make to free software...

Re:Red Hat

[spafbnerf]

Progeny's Componentized Linux will, eventually, allow you to pick-and-choose components from Debian & Fedora as you see fit, and install them with Anaconda. :)

Re:Red Hat

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as you're concerned, apt and yum do the same job. If you are happy with yum, then there's little point in switching.

my experience: I found it quite easy to persuade apt to restart downloads when my 56k modem (yuck!) disconnected -- so I can just apt-get upgrade and leave it alone -- yum wouldn't do that and I had to sit watching it (a bastard if you are upgrading 100Mb of OpenOffice).

Setting up your own yum repo was a lot easier though. Apt was very messy in that regard.

Re:Red Hat

[illtud]

Perfectly understandable. up2date on fedora uses yum as its backend... and it's all pointy/clicky. Even has an applet that turns red when there are new packages.

yeah, but that only does updates. I can't launch it to install new applications or remove installed ones. At least, I don't know of a way to.

From the command-prompt:

%yum install [newapp]

Installs the newapp (as long as it's a package in the depositories listed in your yum.conf, obviously).

Re:Red Hat

[greenrd]

It depends on how much RAM you have. If you have around 128Mb, it's much slower than if you have around 512Mb.

I'll soon be coding up a more efficient replacement soon, called zuum. It will be at http://www.greenrd.org/sw/zuum/ when it's released. Watch that space...

Languages

[FenwayFrank]

and anaconda now is sporting 31 languages.

Including "redneck"?

Re:Languages

[lurking]

Dude! You are an oldtimer! Good to see! ;)

Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[Coryoth]

Anyone know exactly what the issues with SELinux by default were? Having SELinux, or something equivalent system using the LSM kernel module as a default is the way that Linux should e heading - it would dramatically increase the security of Linux systems. I was looking forward to Fedora Core 2 being the first to include it by default, and anticipating other distributions making the move in the near future.

Jedidiah.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[justsomebody]

Yeah, this is a simple matter of lacking time.

Inclusion is one thing, hard core implementation is another. SELinux is not click RPM and install.

SELinux is a set of policies that define how your system is acting basing on actual happenings. To put it simply, take it as system account ACL-s (maybe I put it wrong but that was the only way to describe it as simple thing).

One month most probably isn't enough time to implement more than trivial policies that actualy take your system trough correct workout. Expect FC3 to be the first one with correct settings. FC2 can be but probably settings will depend on you

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[struan]

My issue with having SELinux enabled when I installed Test 2 was that no one except root could log in. I found in various forums that I was not the only person having this problem. Disabled SELinux, and I could log in using a user acct.
There was no documentation that I could find that explained how to set it up correctly--though I'd be interested to see something in plain English about it.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[Coryoth]

Yeah, this is a simple matter of lacking time.


Thanks. I was aware that writing and implementing a default policy that was going to work well is a non trivial task - I wasn't aware how far they had progressed with that. It soudns like enough people had prolems with the policy settings etc. in Test2 that it is being delayed. As long as it is going to be folded in properly once all the quirks have been sorted out I'm happy.

Jedidiah.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[jargoone]

Anyone know exactly what the issues with SELinux by default were?

Perhaps it had something to do with problems experienced by people like me that just went with the default install, and were greeted with pages upon pages of security violations just trying to start init.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[Kelvin]

A big problem is that if you turn on selinux, you need to have profiles for everything running on the system and that's nowhere near complete yet.

Also, X needs hooks patched into it in order to make it useable with selinux. RH has apparently contracted out for that to be done, but I have no idea how far along it is.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[pyros]

Well, the default disabled status of SELinux isn't truly disabled as you might think it is. I forget what the implementation is, but it is still there, I think along the lines of set to allow everything with no policy in place. SELinux is a huge part of FC2, but it's proven to be so freaking difficult to integrate with anything resembling a standard policy that they have to disable it by default or you will have an unusable system out of the box. And I say this as an apologetic RH fanboy. They will enable it by default when it doesn't break everything for 90% of the users.

Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default?

[LnxAddct]

SELinux may be a bit too secure and/or complicated for those not familiar with it. By introducing it as an option, those who know about it and/or are willing to mingle with it can. I mean its possible to lock yourself out of your system even if you have root access, itd take quite a bit of rebooting(probably into knoppix) or reinstalling the system to get access to your system if you messed anything up. I can't comment on the stability of the SE patches but I would assume they are stable conidering that the NSA put them together, but if they aren't stable it may be causing trouble as well.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. If any of you are trying out fedora and prefer the ReiserFS file system just pass reiserfs to the kernel at boot. For those who don't know, ReiserFS is a journaling file system that is very stable, very fast, and has the best recovery that I've seen yet. It is also funded by DARPA as well as a few other secret donators.

Differences from Core 1

[thpdg]

Does anyone have the URL to the list of differences from Core 1?
Thanks!

Re:Differences from Core 1

[Anonymous Coward]

get two cdrom drives and install them. Put core 1 in one and core 2 in the other. Then, on the command line: #diff /mnt/cdrom /mnt/cdrom1

Re:Differences from Core 1

[prockcore]

I don't know of a URL, but I'm running Core 2 on both my powerbook and my desktop.

Here's the most obvious changes I've seen:

Kernel 2.6.5 instead of 2.4.22
Gnome 2.6 instead of 2.4
x.org instead of XFree86
Mozilla 1.6
SELinux (although it's been turned off)

and upgraded versions of gcc, python, glibc, and a most other software.

Also instead of redhat-config-* it's all system-config now.

Re:Differences from Core 1

[flyingindian]

You can compare the two versions at www.distrowatch.com.

Re:Differences from Core 1

[digitect]

Thanks for the concise update.

Can't believe no one else even offered. Oh wait, this *is* SlashDot...

SELinux is a big step forward.

[hey]

There will be lots of problems with SELinux but it
is a giant forward for fine-grained security!
No doubt there will be quite a few initial problems with it.

Re:SELinux is a big step forward.

[jd]

You're absolutely right. The problem is mainly the psychological one of not having a true "superuser" any more, but rather having realms and mini-superusers within those realms.

That's a big shift, especially if you're used to running everything as root. (A big no-no, but most Linux users are guilty of it anyway, because it's convenient at times.)

There are also no texts out there on how to use SE-Linux, making it a foreign object to people installing from cold.

Re:SELinux is a big step forward.

[justsomebody]

There are also no texts out there on how to use SE-Linux

??? fedora.redhat.com has links to various books and howto-s. Just look under the question What is SELinux

Re:SELinux is a big step forward.

[salimma]

especially if you're used to running everything as root. (A big no-no, but most Linux users are guilty of it anyway, because it's convenient at times.)

I was not aware most of us run Lindows^WLinspire :). On a more serious note, I normally just add admins to the wheel group and allow the group members sudo access.

SELinux, et al

[jd]

First, if SELinux is now disabled by default, then presumably it was enabled by default before. Hopefully with all the relevent patches to all relevent packages being applied!

However, this would result in a system very different from one that most Linux users would be used to. It would also be very different from any system described by any manual or textbook out there. MAC (Mandatory Access Controls) do strange things to the way systems work.

Now, those strange things happen to be Very Good Things, if you're wanting a secure system. They are also very disconcerting things, if you're wanting a very usable system.

Fedora's now on 4 CDs - yeesh! And the mirror I saw only showed source ISOs, no binary ISOs. That makes it hard to test such things as install routines.

Now, 4 CDs isn't too bad, when you consider that a comprehensive system would have nearer 100 CDs in it!

For those who don't believe me, here is a quick-n-dirty guide to some of the things you are missing:

• Scenery to FlightGear. This takes at least 2 CDs on its own!
  
• Various additional compilers and interpreters. eg: Occam, Intercal, BCPL, Cobol, etc. Now, arguably these aren't really in widespread use, but we're talking comprehensive, not practical.
  
• Alternative web/ftp servers. There are lots of these!
  
• A hard real-time kernel, eg: Linux with RTAI.
  
• Network routers, such as Click and PIMd
  
• Berlin
  
• Distributed systems code, such as a MOSIX kernel, a Beowulf kernel, Cactus, PVM/MPI, Globus, COSM, etc.
  
• FreeVMS (Another kernel patch!)
  
• The first 200 billion decimal places of Pi
  

The list is extensive. And, yes, all those would be valuable to someone. Even Pi.

So, I suppose that although 4 CDs seems a lot, it's actually a lot better than it could be.

Re:SELinux, et al

[HiThere]

Was SELinux even included before? It could well be that this is the first time that it's been included, and it's disabled by default as a "safety measure". When you're feeling experimental, you can try installing with it enabled, and that will help any bugs be tracked down, without discomforting the users that don't want to be experimented on quite THAT vigorously.

Re:SELinux, et al

[drinkypoo]

Now, 4 CDs isn't too bad, when you consider that a comprehensive system would have nearer 100 CDs in it!

A comprehensive what system? Redhat is really not designed to be anything other than a workstation or server. It's way too much system to be an efficient firewall or router, or to be a RTOS.

As for your first 200 billion decimal places of Pi, it would probably be faster to generate them than to load them from CD.

Saying that four CDs isn't a lot because it could be 100 CDs is like saying that britney spears could have less talent because she could be Yoko Ono. While factual, it is no consolation whatsoever.

Re:SELinux, et al

[I kan Spl]

Eh? It doesn't have /dev/pi ? Darn them...

That would make an interesting kernel patch though...

Re:SELinux, et al

[BubbleNOP]

It was included before. I have Fedora Core 2 Test 2 and it came with SElinux enabled. I can use ls with special options and see SElinux attributes on files and directories. Some stuff is screwed up because of SElinux and I haven't had time to figure it out yet. E.g. after I can't run any graphic programs that prompt for root password (package managers, etc.)

Re:SELinux, et al

[norweigiantroll]

Bah, I've yet to see why memorizing more than just 3.14159265358979 is actually useful.

Re:SELinux, et al

[straponego]

Not bad, I'm thinking about switching. The only question is, what's the license on pi? If it's not GNU/pi, no thanks!

Re:SELinux, et al

[whovian]

FYI there are DVD isos (1 disc) out there, so you don't necessarily have to juggle 4 CD-ROMs.

That said, I downloaded test2 only a few days ago and have yet to install successfully. Time to try test3!

No surprises

[Chuck Chunder]

The schedule is public and easy to find.

Yay!

[TechnologyX]

"This is the final test release, so please help us nail things down."

My RedHat 9 system has just been slowly dying over the past bit, and I really want to get Fedora Core 2 on my new computer ( which is still missing RAM and a HD ). Pretty preeeety please let the final release come in May. Not only will I be able to upgrade/install it, I finally convinced my folks to let me slap Linux on their Dell desktop, and I want to go with Fedora ( for the sake of knowing how the ins and outs of RedHat already )

Re:Yay!

[TechnologyX]

Mostly I'm leaning towards Fedora because I'm most familiar with the setup of RedHat machines, and would be able to help them out better if something came along.

I think they'll be able to use gnome 2.6 without a problem, they just it to surf the net and for paperwork stuff.

Re:Yay!

[AstroDrabb]

Why wait? Slap Fedora Core 1 on your parents box. I have been using FC1 and it is very stable for me. It will have everything they need. The first few weeks after FC2 is released, there should be a bunch of updates as more users come aboard and find more bugs. So fith FC1, they will have a very nice system now. Though Gnome 2.6 is nice! You can also update to FC2 from FC1 with apt or yum once it has become very stable.

Re:Yay!

[Alan Cox]

Also note that you can stick an FC1 or FC2 test CD into an RH9 box and upgrade it. You can also live upgrade RH9 to Fedora Core if you like living dangerously

Hand install:
fedora-release
yum

yum update rpm

Hand update krb5_libs and e2fsprogs carefully

yum update

and go read a book.

[This isnt an approved official way to do it but it seems to work!]

Re:Debian and Fedora...

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

Then use a BitTorrent link to download it.

I've been using it for the past few days...

[Spoing]

Works well. If you have test 2 installed, and have used Uptodate in the last few days, you're probably close if not using test 3.

Re:I've been using it for the past few days...

[Burdell]

That isn't entirely true. In the development tree, packages will sometimes go backwards in version (i.e. from 1.1-1 to 1.0.5-2). When you just continue to do updates, you won't get such packages updated unless you manually track them down and use "rpm --oldpackage". This has happened with several packages lately IIRC.

Also, part of the point of the test release is to test the installer (and booting disc1 :-) ). Since some of the defaults (i.e. SELinux) have changed in the installer, you don't have a "real" test3 system unless you install test3.

Re:I've been using it for the past few days...

[Spoing]

1. That isn't entirely true. In the development tree, packages will sometimes go backwards in version (i.e. from 1.1-1 to 1.0.5-2). When you just continue to do updates, you won't get such packages updated unless you manually track them down and use "rpm --oldpackage". This has happened with several packages lately IIRC.

How can I ID those packages? (Release list, command, mailing list archive, ...?)

Re:I've been using it for the past few days...

[rodgster]

I had Test 2 installed on my laptop. Worked good after install. UptoDate gave me a message Up2Date needed to be updated (manually). I updated it (manually). The it indicated I needed an additional 100+ MB of updates. WTF? So stupid me I ran it. Won't boot now. So, I've been waiting for Test 3. Downloading now. Bittorrent.

Re:I've been using it for the past few days...

[Burdell]

There is no easy way really. You have to just take the list of packages
installed on your system (rpm -qa) and compare it to the list of
packages in the development directory manually.

Re:I've been using it for the past few days...

[Spoing]

That's what I figured. Thanks for the tips!

Re:What about X?

[Spoing]

Did you update from XFree to X.org? There were some hassles for me on another card (Nvidia) that likely would not be an issue on a "clean" install (guessing).

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[Spoing]

1. I installed it last week, and it froze the machine _cold_ twice... i.e. had to reach for the power switch. I had enough (as this box _had_ to be reliable) and switched to Debian Testing (sarge)... no problems since.

Erm...don't run a beta on an important machine?

If you do...thanks for testing!

Re:INFO for OSNews

[el-spectre]

True, and for good reasons, both are easy to acquire though, so what's the big deal?

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[IpsissimusMarr]

You install a "test" release on a box that _had_ to be secure? In my experience always test a new OS release on a non-critical system first. Given that you have an extra system with similar hardware so you can test any HW conflict of course.

BitTorrent

[kick_in_the_eye]

Great, only 675 hours to go! I Guess test 4 will be out by then.

Re:BitTorrent

[g-to-the-o-to-the-g]

I'm getting 500k/s. Are you downloading all 6 sets of images? Or are you using dialup?

Re:BitTorrent

[xaoslaad]

I thought it was bad at work when I was getting 51kbps. That's on a fairly unused T1. Then I brought the laptop home and resumed on my cable modem connection; it's been 5kpbs pretty steady even after multiple retries and a reboot; i dunno; I've been like you in the past with ultra fast downloads; but FC2T3 is blowing chunks of molasses today. I've been going since the torrent was made available this morning give or take ten minutes and im still trying to get the darn images down...

Re:BitTorrent

[AstroDrabb]

Did you grab your torrents from here? I started the binary torrent about 1 hour ago and have only 1 hour left. I have had a constant 2Mbs or so on my cable modem. I am on the tampabay.rr.com network.

Re:BitTorrent

[karevoll]

There will be no Fedora Core 2 Test 4. The next release will be Fedora Core 2. :-) You can see their release-schedule by clikcing here.

Re:BitTorrent

[neowolf]

I think the problem is there are too many freeloaders using BT and not leaving their client up. At that point, it becomes no better than FTP. BT only works if everyone cooperates. When they do- it works extremely well.

Test2 with SELinux was buggy as hell

[linuxguy]

Fedora team needs a lot of time to integrate SELinux well. Test 2 release was horrible horrible mess. When SELinux locked me out of my own box that is when I decided to format the partition and never touch Test 2 Fedora again.

I am downloading Test 3 and hoping that it is better.

Re:Question:

[dpw2atox]

i think i know what is causing your problem. as root run hdparm -tT /dev/hdx where x is your drive and partition. example: hdparm -tT /dev/hda1 You will see cache results and disk transfer results. Im guessing DMA is disabled by default on your machine. If you recieve a very poor score then you can try this hdparm -c1d1 /dev/hdx then run hdparm and see if it runs faster. if it does then you know your problem and you can add your /etc/rc.sysinit and place that line in there somewhere after your root partition is mounted.

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[cscx]

Well, define "beta". I've run Debian unstable for months with zero problems whatsoever. Call that a "beta" if you want... it's right in the name: "unstable!"

P.S. I love how my original post is sitting pretty at -1... I guess Slashdot moderators can't handle the truth.

Anybody got "lock screen" working?

[linuxguy]

In Test 2 and in Fedora Core 1, I could never get the "Lock screen" feature to work.

Did anybody else experience that?

It is a minor annoyance and not a big deal.

Re:Anybody got "lock screen" working?

[metallidrone]

See this xscreensaver FAQ.

Summary: do not stay logged into X as root (in fact, it'd be better to not log into X as root at all--instead, use gksu or xterm+su or xterm+sudo, etc.).

Sounds like you need more data points.

[el-spectre]

Best I can tell you is that something sounds radically wrong with that system. Maybe FC doesn't like the hardware, I dunno... but I sling gigabytes of data around on my Fedora rig and it seems to be ok.

I'm not a fanatic, I like the balance of "you don't have to be an expert" and "you can tweak it easily" that Fedora provides. Good support / documentation / community makes it a good choice for me.

Like I said, sounds like your machine has problems , and that sucks, but it's hardly fair to damn a whole distro based on one buggy machine, is it?

Re:Sounds like you need more data points.

[jargoone]

but it's hardly fair to damn a whole distro based on one buggy machine, is it?

Works for Windows in a lot of cases, why not Fedora?

Re:Sounds like you need more data points.

[el-spectre]

Ah, the double inverse contrapositive reverse psychology with a twist argument, eh?

Re:Sounds like you need more data points.

[Lehk228]

the difference being that everyone has decided windows(9x) is buggy based on their one machine ;)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:What about X?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm having the same issue with my Radeon 9600. Hardlocked Core 1.

Penguin Computing vs. RH 9 EOL

[Anonymous Coward]

I was surprised to learn that Penguin Computing is still pre-installing Red Hat v9.0 during the same week it reaches it's end of life. It would be nice if they took responsiblity for the security issues and bundled a license to Progeny Transition Service with the workstation. After two weeks, Penguin Computing sales has failed to respond to if they will continue to pre-install RH9 after May 1st.

Sparc 32 port

[TheRealMindChild]

I started porting this to sparc 32 as a kind of contribution to the Aurora Linux project, but damn is that tedious. I dont even know of a distro that has an up to date port for sparc 32... except maybe gentoo, and I still think it lags behind a little.

Re:Sparc 32 port

[mandolin]

Is debian-sparc out of date, and if so, how? (I wouldn't know.. just curious.)

Re:Sparc 32 port

[SLot]

Yeah, as someone who is about acquire a gently used (when it fell of the truck, it didn't hit the floor) Sun-420R, suddenly I wasn't all that thrilled with my options. Having lived thru it with an old Cobalt Qube 2, I'll figure something out, but gentoo was about all that looked like it wasn't going to be an exercise in futility.

Re:Sparc 32 port

[tbuskey]

With NetBSD and OpenBSD the sparc ports are as up to date as the i386 versions. In fact, with OpenBSD at least, they can do some security stuff on the sparc that couldn't be done on the '386.

If you're not running linux on a '386, you're a step behind. With the BSDs, you're up to date.

Re:Sparc 32 port

[Tet]

about acquire a gently used (when it fell of the truck, it didn't hit the floor) Sun-420R

Slightly different. A 420R needs a sparc64 version, which is more readily available than sparc32.

Re:What about X?

[prockcore]

Hope they get the problems with the drivers for ATI Radeon cards sorted out.

Same with NVidia. NVidia's drivers don't work with fedora's 2.6.5 kernel. You compile the drivers, and then when you try and startx, the system locks up (totally locks up, if you're sshed into the box you'll find it frozen).

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[Spoing]

1. Well, define "beta". I've run Debian unstable for months with zero problems whatsoever. Call that a "beta" if you want... it's right in the name: "unstable!"

Maybe ^ ^ ^ ^ is the reason for;

1. P.S. I love how my original post is sitting pretty at -1... I guess Slashdot moderators can't handle the truth.

No more comments from me. I've said enough.

Re:Debian and Fedora...

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Ever heard of Bit Torrent? I'm running Bit Torrent at my office just to share out our T1 w/ the rest of the community.

Re:What about X?

[kko]

I've been using Fedora Core 2 since Test 1, and I have been upgrading via yum, and as of now, I'm using my Radeon 9600 with X.org and the stock Fedora kernel with no problems. I have not tried anything that uses OpenGL.

PowerPC?

[McSmiley]

I know they're working on it. Go Fedora PPC developers, go!

/me thanks you in advance....

Re:Question:

[jonabbey]

Sheesh. This is a template troll, guys. Check out http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=6081.

Honestly, it's so you can't even moderate a troll down successfully anymore.

Is there a samba fix ?

[LouSir]

Did anyone else have trouble using smbfs to mount a Windows Server 2000 shared directory ? I hope they fixed that. Lou Sir

Re:Is there a samba fix ?

[pyros]

The disabled smbfs in the kernel to promote testing the new CIFS module. I don't know if anyoune set up binary RPMs like they have for NTFS, but it would be as simple as 1. install kernel-source 2. edit EXTRAVERSION in Makefile 3. copy the right config from /usr/src/linux-2.4/configs to /usr/src/linux-2.4/.config 4. make oldconfig 5. make menuconfig and enable smbfs as a module 6. make dep 7. make modules 8. copy the compiled module to whatever folder the cifs module is at in /lib/modules 9. depmod -a 10. enjoy That's what I used to do for ntfs until I found the prebuilt RPMs at linux-ntfs.sf.net.

Re:Is there a samba fix ?

[MozillaFireBird]

smbfs support was left out intentionally. you can get the same results with "mount -t cifs". since it's a test release, they are testing the Common Internet File System. You got to recompile the kernel to get smbfs support.

Re:Is there a samba fix ?

[LouSir]

Thanks so much. I am linux newbie and spent many hours googling this issue. NOTHING I found worked nor did it talk about smbfs being disabled. You all saved me even more wasted time. Thanks again. Lou Sir

Re:Is there a samba fix ?

[MozillaFireBird]

lol. I wasted a lot of time myself when I first installed it. The good folks at fedora helped me out. Still, "mount -t cifs" is somewhat buggy. When I mount windows share without a login/password, it's giving a seg. fault. Let me know if it works for you.

Re:Question:

[Anonymous Coward]

My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 800 mhz machine at times...

Do these symptoms mysteriously coincide with pushing power button on front of machine?

Re:Question:

[fgb]

I thought this post looked awfully familiar. This same post has appeared, almost verbatim, on slashdot and other sites. The only thing that ever changes is whether the poster is complaining about OS X, FreeBSD or a Linux distribution.
Some of the posts date back to 1998.

Check it out

They will install SuSE 9 if you ask.

[Ayanami Rei]

They have it, but aren't pushing it because they don't consider it fully tested. Put an order in your saved list, then call up the sales staff and ask them to do it. They will happily oblige. (I know because I deal with them frequently)

Re:Question:

[DAldredge]

That's because the editors have went on a crusade and removed mod privilages from a large number of posters. I haven't gotten mod privilages in over 4 months.

Re:What about X?

[pyros]

The nVidia problem has to do with a 4G memory patch (either apply a patch to fix it, or remove a patch that RH added). There's a thread on nvnews.net that tells how to do it, this isn't a link to that thread, but the thread should be listed in the search results that the link goes to.

??? What issue do you have?

[Ayanami Rei]

Because samba + windows nt can be a lot more complicated especially now that Samba is in 3.0. This is especially true in environments with a an active directory domain. The number of session negotiation security options between he two systems is _staggering_ ^_^;;;

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[LnxAddct]

You must be running testing, because if you were really running unstable you would have noticed that just a week ago there was a faulty package added to unstable (libpam) and it screwed up a ton of peoples machines and caused me more frustration then I've ever had with a system. If you were active on IRC at all you probably saw all the complaints. Also I believe unstable currently has a few other minor issues with KDE and some others, not sure but thats what I heard, I run testing and stable only now, along with Fedora. In the past three years I've tried Mandrake, Suse, Debian, and Red Hat. I've ditched the first two, and Debian and Red Hat are the only ones worth anything. Debian has recently gone down hill though, and even unstable isn't as up to date as it could/should be. I'm phasing out Debian now and after years of testing various distributions I've settled on Red Hat/Fedora. You must just be incompetent or made a mistake somewhere, but I can assure you that it was not Fedora, especially if you were running a stable version and not testing.
Regards,
Steve

Oxymoron-ad

[loconet]

This while I get a big fat flash ad from Microsoft telling me that mainframe Linux was found to be 10 times more expensive than Windows 2003

Re:Question:

[prockcore]

I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Fedora box (a PIII 800 w/512 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder.

That 17 meg file sure gets around. First you copied it on a Mac LC, then a Powerbook, now a linux box. You must be getting really frustrated having to copy that file around all the time, and it always seems to take forever for you too... sucks to be you.

Re:Fedora *sucks*... just from my experience

[cscx]

The machine ran unstable for up until very recently, and I hadn't run apt-get recently, due to a dependency problem that screwed up the entire apt upgrade path. I wanted to try out Fedora, but like I said, it kept freezing the machine. First time was on the first boot-up! I went to enter, I believe, the time zone information, and when I went to click "Next", the machine died. Likewise on the second try, it choked running GNOME -- randomly locked up cold. That's when I burned a fresh Debian testing ISO (holy crap, they actually added hardware detection to the installer now!?) and haven't had problems since.

The one gripe I have about Debian, is while it noticed the existence of the ethernet cards, it for some reason decided that while loading the module during setup to do an FTP install was a necessity, loading the module when booting the OS was unnecessary?! (HINT: always choose the 'expert' setup because the simple one skipped this 'trivial' detail)

Long story short, I had to manually add the ethernet card module to /etc/modules (and do some manual network configuration...grrr). Quick fix, but come on, this is 2004, it should be a bit better with ethernet cards.

As far as my 'incompetence' -- I don't think so. Just because I had a bad experience that doesn't necessarily fit the SlashThink template doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong.

Re:What about X?

[AstroDrabb]

According to this post it looks like 2.6.6-rc2 & 1.0-5341 on FC2-t2 is working.

Re:What about X?

[brsmith4]

Been using the X.org release since fedora put it in the development tree and have had no problems with the NVidia driver. It's definitely got to be a kernel issue because I am running 2.6.5 from kernel.org without a hitch.

Nice FUD

[bogie]

"unleashing the unstable Fedora betas which one day will become a product which you must pay for."

Yawn. Geez can't you come up with anything better than that? Who fucking cares what happens to the code that's in Fedora? So what if Red Hat picks the best of Fedora and includes it in RHEL. How is that possibly wrong in any way? Your right, how DARE Red Hat use code from a product they've created in another one of their products. I use Fedora, I haven't bought RHEL. Gee your right. They really got me there. Oh wait, no they didn't. You have no point so stop the Trolling.

Fedora stands on its own as a solid distro. Its not some half-assed distro that Red Hat doesn't spend a lot of time and money testing. Don't like the fact that its got a shorter period of support? TFB. Stick with your Gentoo.

Re:What about X?

[juhaz]

Nothing much they could do about it.

XFree86 4.3.0 FC1 was using came out 26.2.2003, and Radeon 9600 and 9800 series later that year (9800XT not until november, I believe) so it couldn't support them out-of-the-box because they didn't exist when the relevant X version was made.

Since this one will be using the much more recent X.org server based on XFree 4.4.0, yes, it should work fine now.

Re:Question:

[DAldredge]

Nope. It stoped when I got a post modded up to +5 complaining about /. not being worth subscribing to.

Next thing I know, I have a subscription (that I didn't request/pay for) and I am removed from the mod pool.

Re:What about X?

[bruthasj]

It was a framebuffer issue in the early versions of the 2.6 kernel. For example, under 2.6.2-1.156 the ATI cards framebuffer would be blank during boot if you passed in parameters to run at a higher resolution.

I'm not sure which kernel FC2 will eventually run, but under 2.6.5-1.332 which is the latest from arjan, the ATI framebuffer now works and the nice Penguin Crony can be seen again.

Re:What about X?

[thryllkill]

That's funny, cause I am using Archlinux and I had "upgrade" back to 4.3.0 so I could get my ati drivers to work since they do not work with 4.4. Or did ati release new drivers?

for the redneck impared

[Anonymous Coward]

Announcin' th' third tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2

* Fum: Billy Joe Nottin'ham
* To: fedo'a-announce-list redhat com
* Cc:
* Subjeck: Announcin' th' third tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2
* Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:36:11 -0400

"Eff'n ah's curt wif yo', it's on account o' time is a facko'. ah reckon

fast, ah type fast, an' ah need yo' guys t'ack fast eff'n yo' want

t'git th' bess outta this. So, purdy please, wif sugar on

top, try th' tess release!"

Yessuh, it's time fo' th' third an' final tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2.

Notable changes in this hyar release include:

- SELinux is now disabled by default. Eff'n yo'd like t'install wif

SELinux suppo't, pass 'selinux' t'th' installer. Bug repo'ts about

th' behavio' an' suppo't of SELinux is sartinly still welcome; we is

still wawkin' on it.

- Th' 'CD1 won't boot' issue appears t'be resolved, cuss it all t' tarnation. Enny repo'ts of

corntinued failure is sartinly appreesheeated, cuss it all t' tarnation.

- Please check th' included translashuns fo' co'reckness an' sanity.

Anaconda now installs in 31 languages.

-----
Thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Re:for the redneck impared

[tekunokurato]

well if it weren't for the obvious southern orientation it could almost be maine, but not quite. "Fedo'a Co'e" would definitely be maine, though. Oh, also, I know a woman from kentucky who lives in maine now who says 'tarnation.'

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

It's a troll

[bonch]

You're arguing with a classic repost.

I suggest the mods around here visit Anti-Slash daily. They maintain a daily list of troll posts, reposts of +5s from past articles, and other mayhem that they successfully get modded up here on Slashdot, all for their amusement.

Re:It's a troll

[el-spectre]

Ah. Do I fail some test for not replying with a flame ? :)

seems a bit odd to have an entire website (meta-site?) that is devoted to another site... but to each their own, I guess. I shall not study to visit a website!

Question

[bonch]

Then why did you click "Read More" and reply?

Re:Question

[Max Threshold]

Because there was nothing interesting to comment on today.

Your tag's too true, BTW... "people" especially includes developers.

Re:What about X?

[juhaz]

You are correct when it comes to ATI binary drivers, yes.

I believe this was about the default non-3d accelerated drivers that ship with X.

Re:Another Mirror Available for just 1.92 code

[sbrath]

ftp://mirror2.mirrors.tds.net/pub/fedora-core/test /1.92/i386/iso

up2date is a mess

[linuxguy]

up2date in Fedora Core Test 2 was really really buggy. I could never get it to work behind a proxy. It would freeze every single time and I had to kill -9 it. That is after I correctly filled out the proxy server field and port. Mozilla and other apps that use a proxy server worked correctly.

Re:up2date is a mess

[mephisto23]

i think that up2date is not only buggy, it is trash!
why develop up2date when yum will do this job already?

Re:up2date is a mess

[Muad'Dave]

Amen! The solution (as root):

export http_proxy=http://yourproxy.com:yourport
/usr/sbi n/up2date

This works fine. There is an issue with the lib used for proxy fighting the up2date script.

Re:up2date is a mess

[Alan Cox]

Yum is also included. I've found yum a lot more useful than up2date.

English not supported...

[JohnDoe.Slashed]

"and anaconda now is sporting 31 languages"

I guess English still isn't supported on /. ...

Re:English not supported...

[valdis]

No. It is indeed sporting 31 languages, in the sense of "sporty" meaning "marked by conspicuous display".

Whether they are in fact supported is another question.

How about 9800 + AMD64?

[johannesg]

Do I have any chance of getting the ATI 9800 pro to work on the 64bit version? I'd already be happy if I could get a decent 2D performance - right now the best I can do is 800x600 in VESA-compatibility mode...

Re:How about 9800 + AMD64?

[SegFault]

The "ati" driver included with X.org works. I'm using it now on Gentoo amd64. Also, the "radeon" driver included with xfree 4.3.99-rcX worked for me as well (and I assume Xfree 4.4.0 would work as a result, although not tested here for license issues). This is on a 9800XT.

Re:How in the hell is this flamebait?

[unixfan]

Stupidly? What kind of ignorant statement is that?

Why would I want to boot up in anything but 5. Well, if I've messed up my computer that might be nice but then I just use dmsg.
Imagine all these ordinary users who just want to use a computer, having to stare at all these cryptic messages that means next to nothing to them!

You're the flamebait buddy!

Oh, you might think that you should not use Linux unless you are really a very proficient hacker or whatever. Yeah, that's reasonable!

Only if you're a lab or kiosk?!?!

Man you really will win the price for user friendliness! Ignorant bastard!

Re:Debian and Fedora...

[eloki]

I wish Debian developers would pay more attention to these developments (especially to 'no-frills' and 'bleeding-edge' part.)

They do. And that's why they have the unstable distro, just for you. In fact, even cooler, you don't have to wait for a release to run all this cool new stuff, you can upgrade and run it now!

And in fact, I understand you can do the same with Fedora too, just upgrade as you go. If you have the bandwidth to download Fedora, you certainly have the bandwidth to run Debian unstable.

Re:What about X?

[strlen]

Newer generation (Above 9200) Radeon cards aren't supported by XFree 4.3.0, which is what came with Fedora Core 1. You need to either use proprietary ATI drivers (haven't used them, they don't have native drivers for AMD64, which is what I use), or use XFree 4.4 (which doesn't support 3d acceleration with those cards, but will work). I'm currently using XFree 4.4, with an ATI Radeon 9600SE and it's very stable.

I haven't tried Core 2 Test 3 yet, but since they're using XOrg, the newer-Radeon problems may be rectified since I do believe XOrg is based on XF 4.4 -- but again, no acceleration unless you use ATI's proprietary drivers.

Another option you may want to try, if you can't use the proprietary drivers for some reason, is just to play use VesaFB.

Re:Question:

[Anonymous Coward]

For the fiftieth time:

IT'S A TEST RELEASE. THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS.

Install Debian Stable and you will have none of these issues. Same goes for the distros RedHat and SuSE ship. So shut the fuck up.

I'm rambling, but little tools like hdparm make it possible to fix issues that a GUI-only OS might neglect.

Does FC2 fix Subversion on i485/i586 issue?

[Likes Microsoft]

I was frustrated in my attempt to get Subversion up and running on Fedora Core 1, because apparently the Native Posix Threads Library (nptl) enabled version of glibc is not available in the distro or on the yum/up2date servers for i486/i586 systems. I see that the distro has added another CD. Does anyone know if i586 nptl-enabled glibc has now been included in FC2?

Re:Does FC2 fix Subversion on i485/i586 issue?

[Lockjaw]

Check out this for info on nptl and subversion. Re-compiling Berkeley DB without nptl support worked for me.

Re:Does FC2 fix Subversion on i485/i586 issue?

[Likes Microsoft]

I've tried looking at the pages, but I guess I'm inexperienced with Linux and need a little more help than they give. I see how to force db42 to compile using nptl, but not the other way around. On one page, somebocy suggests compiling with --disableposixmutexes, so I tried

cd build_unix
../dist/configure --disableposixmutexes

I only got a complaint that the option doesn't exist, and I can't figure what to do. Help?

Re:How in the hell is this flamebait?

[GigsVT]

I'm wasn't ever talking about boot messages.

I'm talking about messages from your GUI programs that crash, or from X itself.

It's not surprising that you don't even know what I'm talking about, since running in runlevel 5 hides all that from you.

Re:How in the hell is this flamebait?

[GigsVT]

Like I told the other guy, I wasn't talking about kernel messages or boot messages anyway.

And yes, if the user is so ignorant that they "just want to use a computer", then their system administrator should hide messages from them, and also never give them the root password.

Re:bah

[Lumpy]

I find it funny and sad that you were modded "flamebait" for stating the truth.

the LUG I am a member of and the nearest one to us both have reccomended to all members that Fedora be avoided due to it's highly unstable form. Mandrake has relplaced redhat as the "official" distro. and is the only one that will be supported for newbies.

there are a couple of fedora users, and I really feel their pain as they fight some of the bugs that have lives in there for a long time now. ATI radeon nighmares come to mind that don't exist in other distros.

I personally thing that Slackware is the best distro with Gentoo in a close second. but Mandrake is the only distro for newbies and early users.... we all reccomend that only linux experts touch Fedora due to issues that I hope will be resolved before core 2 is released.

apt-get is the fedora upgrade tool

[GodWasAnAlien]

those who say "it sucks because it doesn't have apt-get like debian" have not been paying attention. apt-get is now the preferred way to update packages or the whole dist.

http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FedoraHOWTO

Re:bah

[neowolf]

I have to agree. This shouldn't have been modded "flaimbait", more like "insightful".

I've used both Fedora and Mandrake. I usually end up sticking with Fedora only for one reason- I've been using Red Hat for many years, so I am used to dealing with Red Hat's implementations of things. I also use Red Hat on my servers (I've had bad luck trying to implement Mandrake as a server replacement), so it is easier to just deal with one distro source (in general terms). Fedora has one big thing that I feel really hampers it for the home user, especially a newbie one- NO MP3 Support! This is rediculous when every other distribution (including Mandrakes) supports it. Sure, it isn't a big deal for an experienced user to download a an un-crippled player, but why put people through that? If Fedora wants to make any inroads into the desktop- they need to provide what most people consider really basic functionality "out of the box". I downloaded the latest Mandrake 10, and am downloading FC2 now, and I'll give them both a spin...

Update Fedora core using Apt?

[ekimminau]

Howdy! Any chance someone has a mini-howto for modifying the sources.list to perform an upgrade from Core 1 to Core 2 using apt? Thanks!

Old laptops

[dspyder]

I have an old Pentium 100 laptop with 64 megs ram and a 1 gig hd sitting in my office. I tried multiple distributions and none would support my wireless card. Looked like Debian Core 2 was the answer, but it's hardware specs are incredible! (1.6gig for graphical, 128meg ram recommended). In fact, it couldn't even be booted from a floppy (old bios doesn't support booting direct from CD). So much for using up all this old hardware with Linux... All I need it for is a WiFi sniffer! --D

Re:bah

[love2hateMS]

Bah back. I've been running Core 1 since it came out and I love it. I've tried them all, and I always return to Red Hat (now Fedora).

Gentoo-- clever distro, but just a bit too much work when you want to just USE your distro, not spends weeks compiling it.

Debian-- sorry, rudest user community I've ever seen. They need to take a lesson from Gentoo's users.

Mandrake-- French distro. Automatically suspect. Probably built with billions of bribe money from Saddam Hussein.

Suse-- I don't speak German. Some would argue that I also, in fact, don't speak English, but what do they know.