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Gentoo Linux Announces Gentoo Linux 2004.1
Keppy writes "The departure of Daniel Robbins hasn't dented the progress of Gentoo Linux with version 2004.1 being released. ... please support Gentoo by purchasing something from the online store. The Gentoo homepage also has a short message about the future of Gentoo Linux now that Daniel has left. ' Robbat2 writes with an excerpt from the linked announcement:
"Please consult our
mirror index for download
locations and the
Gentoo Linux Installation Handbook
for detailed installation
instructions. Support for Gentoo Linux 2004.1 can be found through our
user community by way of the Gentoo Forums,
IRC, and various
community mailing-lists.
Release notes for each architecture
can be found linked from the
Gentoo Linux Release Engineering project page."
Gentoo really is a great operating system, and maybe even for beginners. One of Gentoo's many strengths is the portage system. The portage system is a easy to use system that allows you to build just about any application from source automatically (and often with Gentoo optimizations). It can automatically build all the dependencies for the program too, saving you much time and effort. The portage system also supports binaries (must mention to avoid stoning) however that is often only used in replication systems. Since you can easily setup your own portage mirrors you can create your own custom packages (either that compile from source or are binaries) and easily deploy across your own servers. This would allow you to configure packages on one machine and then just distribute the binaries across duplicate machines if you wished (as I have heard of being done). I also have found Gentoo emerges rarely fail when compared to some of the problems you can run into with RPM. Another large benefit of gentoo is it doesn't install anything that isn't needed to clutter your system up. It will install the bare bones, (ssh, etc) and then you can emerge anything you want. This is much nicer than most OS's which will load it with crap from the start. It is one of the most configurable distributions I have seen, and every Gentoo install is truly unique. Again, while it may give you the barebones to start it takes little work (minus the cpu time to compile) to get it to where you want it. As I said earlier, I think Gentoo may even be a bit beginner friendly. While setup is a bit long and not nearly as easy as something like Redhat, they have a very easy to follow tutorial which walks you through it step by step that I think most beginners could follow. In addition, they have 3 different ways to install Gentoo. A live cd version that is basically bootable and then you have 3 different stages you can choose from. Stage One is a bit insane, for those who really need total control over what is installed. For most people Stage Two is fine as it still compiles virtually everything from scratch, giving you a ton of control, just saves some time over Stage One. Stage Three is for those who just need something fast or are a bit new, and can install binaries of various things to save you compile time and easy of install. This makes Gentoo truly amazing.
Why not upgrade every week like most of us do?
emerge -uvD system
emerge -uvD world
etc-update
I've used Gentoo since last October. Before that, I had essentially never seen a Linux machine. It is my first distro and I haven't really looked back. I've tried others just to see what they were like, mainly Fedora and Debian, but they just don't shape up to the standards I've put and Gentoo has given me. It took a while in the beginning to learn all the ins and outs, but now I can navigate through it with so much ease. Hoorah to Gentoo and its bleeding-edge innovation.
And the day came when the risk to remain closed in a bud, became more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
I just switched about three weeks ago from Debian to Gentoo, and so far I love it!
:^), but I find Gentoo as easy as Debian. BOTH are MUCH better than RedHat, IMHO.
emerge is as easy for me as apt-get was, and the only difference is I have to be patient with long builds. For me, thats a "so what" ?
I'd personally rather wait during the install, than wait while the machine is supposed to be running.
And while I am not a linux newbie, I certainly am no guru (yet
Anyhow, whatever *nix one chooses, it handily beats Windoze over the head except for gaming. *sigh*
Linux on THE desktop? Linux is on MY desktop.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
The gentoo store's funds go directly to Daniel Robbins. This is planned to change as soon as drobbins has the not for profit org in place. Untill then your purchaces fund him directly not the gentoo project.
-Not that he hasn't done alot to deserve the money. But If your trying to support the community that supports gentoo you may want to wait untill the NFP community is actually created instead of funding the departing founder.
Well a year ago I had a system administrator try to get Mandrake to talk to an Olympus C3030 and it never happened!
Supposedly Gentoo is switching Portage over to a new system (moving away from python, and to another language), and I thought it was happening soon(like 2004.0), but possibly not. Does anyone else have any idea on when this is happening, because apparently its a big step for Gentoo?
je suis parce que j'aime
Stages are more flexible than that. If you use a tool like stager or catalyst you can compile fully-optimized stage3 tarballs for your next install from the system you're working on already, so you can still use 'today's' machine while building 'tomorrow's'.
.ebuilds for desired result (gcc-3.3.3 and linux-headers-2.6.5 come to mind). Also modify stager for optimizations and stager/files/make.conf.$ARCH for USE flags. /var/stager for good luck
I have a stager script that I've hacked the bejeezus out of and configured to generate 2.6-headered NPTL systems that are fully optimized, even though the installs start at stage3. I've got flowcharts and stuff to keep track of the 'stage evolution'
here's my process, IIRC:
1. have working gentoo system with stager and a stage1 snapshot.
2. emerge sync
3. unmask or modify certain
3. stager snap $DATE-custom
4. stager athlon-xp 2 stage1 $DATE-custom
5. stager athlon-xp 1 $DATE-custom $DATE-custom
6. clean out temp files in
7. stager athlon-xp 2 $DATE-custom $DATE-custom
8. stager athlon-xp 3 $DATE-custom $DATE-custom
so now you've got a fully-native NPTL stage1 to build other stages from and a fully-native stage3 ready to install.
My actual system is a lot more complex, as I build a 'generic i686' stage1 and then fork off to Pentium3 ad Athlon-XP builds for my different machines. I've also got a totally seperate stage geneology for the PPC build, but they all share the portage snapshots and configs for consistency.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
irc.freenode.net /join #gentoo
Very helpfull people there. Base install of Gentoo comes with "irssi" IRC client that you can hook up to right from the install CD. Ask your question (no need to ask "can I ask a question") and try to be as specific as you can.
Now, this IS an IRC channel so you might run into a few knuckleheads there, but be patient and you WILL be helped. The people there are very well versed and many of the OPs are themselves Gentoo developers and they know the system. They will help.
I go there to help also. It's my small way of giving something back to the community as I'm not a developer, but I can try to help others.
Most people are very patient there, but if you're asking a question that's plainly right in the install guide, they'll direct you to that usually.
Don't be a jerk there and you'll do fine. Others I've seen log into the channel and go "this sucks, I can't get this and this working...Gentoo sucks...I can't do anything". Then when no one responds in about 20 seconds they shout "how come no one wants to help me...this sucks". And on and on. Some people are beyond help it seems...and not for just and OS install either, hehe.
"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
I feel I should add that it is NOT typical of the entire linux community. In the years I have been hanging out in the #gentoo channel on freenode, I don't recall ever once having seen someone say "You couldn't get it working? You must be ignorant."
bork bork bork!
I'm on 56k dialup, if I update weekly then the update remains doable (I actually use -fuvD with emerge then re-emerge without -f). If I leave it a month then it turns into several days of downloading packages before starting the compile.
Gentoo on dialup means regular updates unless you want to end up in download hell.
What is not often mentioned is the stable vs. unstable settings in portage. Ie, in /etc/make.conf is the setting 'ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"', which means unstable/testing packages, as opposed to "x86", which is just regular old stable pacakages.
There have been lots of issues over the past few months regarding improper (too hasty and with too little testing) moving of pacakges from ~x86 to x86. This often results in pacakges that will not compile cleanly in the stable branch for all users.
There was a hideous bug a few months back introduced into ~x86 that basically screwed up the build environment for all packages. I was one of the lucky ones that it hit. Weird permission conflicts that could not be resolved that forced a complete system reinstall. And, while one might correctly point out I'm running unstable, this was an error in portage itself, and should not have been introduced into the system at all.
Also, two weeks ago, there was an issue with xine, where the only way to get it compiled was to start the emerge, pause it, then change directory into the sandbox, remove an erroneous file, then unpause the build.
Then there was the problem with OOo not compiling correctly in the sandbox. Solution? Don't use the sandbox (red flags should be going up, here).
Then there was the problem where I somehow caught half the latest KDE upgrade in portage, but not ALL of it. So, portage upgraded some packages, then downgraded those same packages to reinstall lower numbered KDE pacakges, which then forced me to recompile everything again on the next complete sync.
Now, one may point out that all these problems will eventually be fixed with correct and updated ebuilds. And they were and will continue to be. However, these problems are not infrequent to begin with.
The moral of the story is, gentoo is great, "May she live forever", etc etc. However, updating is NOT always as simple as "emerge sync && emerge -uD world". If you put off updating for a few weeks, you will get dozens of packages that will be updated next time you sync. Sometimes you can let it happily hum for a few days autonomously recompiling stuff. Othertimes, compiling will exit for no good reason, and you'd best get your thinking cap on.
It's NOT idiot simple.
(incidentally, I started off using the stable tree only, but had enough problems with it that I decided i might as well use unstable to get on the bleeding edge.)
Some Gentoo developers just seem to release stuff without thoroughly testing it out. Here's some examples just from my own experiences over the last 2 months:
Gentoo can be a very cool distro if you're willing to put up with the annoyances of (IMHO) a somewhat muddled and slipshod update-release process.
Hmmm... I have no problem with my digital camera. Plug it in, run gtkam, copy pictures. In fact, I can only get the pictures on my Linux box since Kodak refuses to release drivers for Microsoft Windows Server 2003.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
And while I am not a linux newbie, I certainly am no guru (yet :^)
And this is one thing I really love about gentoo. Especially if you're a newbie to linux (I wasn't, but I like you, was certainly no master). Following the installation guide that gentoo provides was a very educational experience for me. Not only does it tell you step by step what to do to get your system up and running, it tells you WHY you're doing it. I was very impressed with the instructions. Oh, and when I ran into any problems at all, their forums had the answer, and when they didn't have the answer, someone responded to my post within a matter of a couple hours, and had the solution to my question.
-matt
- Incredibly short release cycle obsoletes software too quickly
- Currently no way to only get security updates
- Poor package maintenance and broken builds are increasingly common
- Compilation is stressful on hardware but performance benefits have not been proven
- Quality assurance leaves much to be desired, especially compared to that of Debian or the commercial offerings
- USE flags have limited flexibility and are more of an annoyance than a benefit
At work, I run Debian stable. I will soon be running Debian stable on my dev server and Suse or Debian testing on my other systems. I appreciate having the choice of using Gentoo, but its advantages are primarily cosmetic and have little benefit for a system that is being used to get real work done. If I do have a need for a ports-based system, I will be running FreeBSD which has more trustworthy quality assurance as well as more refinement and experience. Thanks for your time!yes! i started in gentoo linux because a friend recommended it
... although a moment ago #gentoo had 1013 people, channels like #gentoo-laptop (since I have a laptop) are excellent resources
the more or less manual install, coupled with the very good documentation and guides, helped me grow acustomed to linux more than I had by just using it through shell accounts or on friend's boxes
the full immersion that comes with its install is a learning experience that can't be beat, and when help is needed there are docs, forums, and irc -- and let me say the irc (imo) is one of the best ways to learn