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Video Games - Lost in Translation?
MikeDawg writes "No, it's not a case of 'All Your Base Are Belong To Us'. MSNBC is running an article about the relative popularity of some game hardware and software in the West vs. the East. This article covers the phenomenon of games vs. culture and why video games that do well in the U.S. generally don't do well in Japan, and vice-versa." The piece notes of the Japanese market: "American-made consoles such as 3DO (released in Japan in 1994) and most recently the Microsoft Xbox (released in two years ago) never seem to attract consumers in large numbers. Games such as 'Enter the Matrix' from Atari, and 'The Lord of the Rings' by Electronic Arts, both released [in Japan] last year, often vanish... without leaving a trace."
Lost in Translation would be an excellent title for a new video game. You can only win if you don't get the girl at the end.
You are in a maze of straight streets with bright neon signs, all alike.
> north
You are in a maze of straight streets with bright neon signs, all alike.
> north
You are in a maze of straight streets with bright neon signs, all alike.
> north
You are lost in translation.
not because it's unpopular, but because no one can get the zoning permits!
Games such as 'Enter the Matrix' ... often vanish... without leaving a trace."
:/
I wonder why
Karma: -2^0.5 . Mainly due to the imbibing of dihydrogen monoxide
... The Legend of Zelda. As I recall, that game was made in Japan, by a Japanese developer, even based on many elements from his real life.
Also, as I recall, the game was wildly popular in both regions. Granted, it was a Japanese game ported to the US market. But, aren't most of the best games in the US? My experience with "enter the matrix" was that it sucks!
IMHO, this is another case of results being skewed to some agenda.
bash: rtfm: command not found
Games such as 'Enter the Matrix' from Atari, and 'The Lord of the Rings' by Electronic Arts, both released [in Japan] last year, often vanish... without leaving a trace."
Yea, well, there is a reason. Both of those games were crap here in the U.S. as well.
The reverse is also true, but to a lesser extent. Nintendo are not doing so well with the Gamecube (at least in the UK) and this is sometimes down to the perception that the more cartoon-like graphics visible on Nintendo hardware, like the recent Zelda game, are childish. In the west, violence, aggression, sport and speed sells bucketloads more.
I think the most interesting part of the article was:
Japanese players do not like being thrown into an arena in which they are given very little instruction," said Hideo Kojima, creator of the popular "Metal Gear Solid" games.
"You can head in any direction, 360 degrees. They say, 'What am I supposed to do? Give me hints. Provide me service instead of just throwing me into this arena
I guess that in Japan, society is a lot more regimented and order-driven than in the west, and so they'll seek games that are similar..... If only they'd start buying more of my favourite genre (point'n'click adventure games!) - more might be released then! (although I guess instead of games like Syberia and Syberia II, we'd end up with stuff like "Puzzle puzzle cow fan 3400"...but at least it'd be a start!
I've been to Thailand a few times and since I don't expect the taste in games to be that much different from Japan's I'll add my 2 cents here.
.
In Thailand, there are a LOT of internetcafes, almost every streetcorner (and a lot of stores between them) have them.
Last time I went (may '03) the game of the day was Ragnarok Online.
It was almost the only game I saw being played there
The other game I saw being played there was C&C Generals.
The game my gf (yup she's thai, in case you're wondering) was/is playing is Rollercoaster Tycoon 2.
In all the time I've been there, the only FPS being played there (in a mall, some comps set up as a lan with broadband access) is Halflife Counterstrike, but I don't think that one really counts since it has had a long enough time to get there.
Back 2 UT2K4 I go, my FPS of choice at the moment.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Stuff like wording, colors and game titles that are cool in the states and in Europe can be interpreted quite differently in Japan.
Violent games ARE popular in Japan, but mostly the violent games doesn't focus only on blood and spilled guts. They want focus on the art of fighting.
Is the culture to "blame"? Of course. So the gaming industry must adapt.
Hmm.. Maybe the writer didnt notice that the 3DO did horrible in the US too... Which might be an indication of why it did bad in Japan. Crap is crap, if you send it to Japan its still crap.
Moo!
Maybe Japanese people are less obsessed with blowing things up pointlessly and hence prefer better quality entertainment with a solid story and more things to do. They consider video gaming much more of an art, an investment, almost a career. Extremely talented video gamers are close to worshipped, especially in strategy games such as StarCraft. Maybe they also like and want to support their own video game industry.
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In addition, "Enter the Matrix" and "The Lord of the Rings" were abysmal games developed quickly to take advantage of the sucess of the movies their based upon. Of course, these movies are exceptionally popular in the US, and it is sure that rabid fans will buy them because they feature their favourite charachters. However, in Japan these movies are not so popular and without playing on the success of the movies, they really do not appeal to many.
Even American game networks such as GameSpy, GameSpot and many others rated these games poorly. As usual, most games that are spin offs of movies suck, god I still get nightmares about the Survivor game. [http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/survivor-ultimate-editi
Don't be suprised that games which base their success on culturally dependent factors such as how well a movie is received, rather than how good the gameplay is don't do well in other places than where the movie is popular.
Maybe we in the United States are a bunch of closet serial-killers due to the violent, malicious video games we so actively enjoy....
...but look at their hentai. Have you ever seen bodily fluids used (and reused) that way? Do all girls wear those uniforms? Should cartoon figures really do *that*???
I'm torn between rejecting the Japanese altogether or forming the United States of Japan where the best of both worlds collide in an all-out FPS blood sport of bukkake and tentacle rape. Who's with me?
Yes, there are some anime that have tentacle rape in there, those anime are for the fetishists (sp?) that like that stuff.
:)
It's sad that one of the first anime to come out of japan was Urutsokidoji - Legend of the Overfiend.
It was released in the UK and the Netherlands under the Manga label and after a lot of people saw that, they thought "WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN FROM THIS CRAP".
I think this is a shame because there is so much GOOD anime out there in all genres.
Comedy: Urusei Yatsura, Ranma
Action: Noir, Cowboy Bebop
Drama: Saikano, Grave of the fireflies
Kiddy: Pokemon, Digimon, etc
Well, you get the idea. And it just now dawned on me that you were probably trolling.
Ah well, I got to write a nice piece anyway
This is the sig that says NI (again)
I love your work, Samir - keep up the excellent job you're doing informing Slashdot readers of your work at Nintendo.
In Japan, stuff like animae and manga is wildly popular, it features intricate storylines, often times fantasy based. That's one thing the Japaneese get that I've noticed western audiences never seem to notice: You can do ANYTHING with games, movies, stories, or art...so why stick to simulating real life?
The western world, on the other hand, has Hollywood fever, we like car chases and action, we like sports events watched by millions, we like reality. Kind of depressing if you think about it, almost like we're so fed up with REAL reality we find it amusing to play in a pretend-yet-realistic world. Either that or I've also noticed that some Americans, especially the current generation of teens, seem to feel like they're "retarded" or immature for using their imagination. A shame, to say the least.
I won't speculate on what this means culture-wise anymore than I have done at the risk of trolling, but if game-makers want to sell well internationally, they need to realize they'll either need to rely on seperate product lines tailored to the specific culture of the region, or (and this I'd like to see) start to bridge a cultural gap and create a game with elements of both cultures' preferences, and see how well that sells.
I think Japan would enjoy some more excitement action-wise in their games, and the western world needs to learn to explore their imagination more and do some problem-solving/puzzle type stuff. A nice healthy blend.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
but those games sucked. 3DO, while an excellent console, was poorly marketed and suffered from poor business decisions as well as lack of game developers due to Nintendo's monopolizing practices. XBox...come on. The dang thing isn't really doing that well here either is it? Yeah it is surviving, but barely. We were all surprised when Sony was able to make a good console. Xbox is a nice unit to be sure, but it is basically a full fledged computer, not a console.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
Any article which starts "despite the success of american music and movies in Japan" has got to be questionable. Japanese music and idols dominate the charts; a few foreign groups / singers hit a niche market.
I'm not trolling, I'm looking for a sincere answer here. I'm one of the many who grew up on Nintendo, but have long since left (since the SNES) because Nintendo seems to be unconscious of our gaming needs.
they also eat strange food and they've got a different word for everything. It's weird.
Now wash your hands.
And on breast bounce.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
Is it just me or has this horse been beaten enough already?
I'm pretty sure that by now, everyone knows that certain games and genres just don't translate well.
Okay, I may be burning Karma here on a data point of "1" but I'm curious. I am Japanese and have played games all my life.
But I get incredibly sick and disoriented playing FPS. I've tried on several occasions thinking that my vertigo might improve but have finally given up knowing that I will just feel sick in the end.
I can play GTA, Tomb Raider and many a third person games and I love any racer but FPS just makes me sick. I wonder if Japanese (or Asians) are in any way pre-disposed to not orienting with FPS for some reason. Maybe it doesn't make all Japanese sick but maybe we just aren't built for it. Kind of like the fact that, generally speaking, we ain't built for milk (lactose intolerance in asians is high).
Sunny
Be my Friend
Shigeru Miyamoto has a shrine online: http://www.miyamotoshrine.com/ that is QUITE fascinating.
bash: rtfm: command not found
While playing like that can be a fun diversion, it gets old pretty fast.
The real core gameplay for GTA3 for me, though, has been the missions that you're given the course of the main storyline. Right from the beginning of the game it's made very clear where you can get missions to advance the game plot, and it's always pretty obvious where you get your next issue to advance the linear game plot.
GTA3 is about as non-linear as the Final Fantasy games, really. There is a main plot that you are generally ushered towards completing, but there are also a few "sub-quests" and mini-games that you can fool around with, or you can just play around and explore. A lot of games that are popular in America just aren't quality games. They are successful due to marketing, gratuitous violence, ect. Japan is a different culture so marketing has to be done differently, and gratuitous violence doesn't seem to be as appealing to them. However, a game like Grand Theft Auto III, which is genuinely well crafted can apparently enjoy some measure of success.
Generally I prefer Japanese games myself. I think many American games cater to a younger, less mature audience, while Japanese games cater to a older, more mature, intelligent (but creepier) audience. I love the games that Nintendo produces, and though lately I haven't been a big fan of RPGs in general, I generally prefer Japanese style RPGs to American ones. And though I don't have any particular aversion to graphically depicted violence in video games, I don't really see it as a selling point, nor do I find cute, cartoonish graphics in a game a turn-off, if it's done with style. I also would prefer to see hot a hot girl depicted in a game than blood splattering everywhere. American games do sometimes try to give their games sex appeal, but it's done in a really crude manner... see BMX XXX, or Lara Croft, who is simply frumpy compared to hundreds of virtually anonymous chicks in Japanese fighting games, RPGs, ect, ect.
I wish more American companies would take a hint and focus on producing quality titles rather than producing lame franchised garbage and using violence and crudity (and yeah, I know, at least we aren't obsessed with tentacle sex) as an attention grabber.
A lot of American games are really fun and inventive, and there are going to be good games made here that simply don't hold appeal to most Japanese, but there's a lot American developers can learn from the Japanese, and there's a lot U.S. gamers could learn from the Japanese as well... namely to look past the surface of a game and how it's marketed and pay attention how it actually plays. The Japanese could take a hint from many American games though, and remove a little emphasis on storyline... no, I don't want to read through pages and pages of dialog or wait through hours of cutscenes when I'm playing a game, even an RPG.
either. So what?
Has this auther ever considered the possibility that the consoles were designed with certain markets in mind?
Microsoft and Sony could have planned to make systems that would sell most heavily in the US while Nintendo planned to make the GameCube the champ in Asia.
From the introduction of the original PSX until the demise of the Dreamcast there were 3 big players in the console game market. They all did fairly well for most of that time. Because there are enough customers to go around. One could even argue that if a company tried too hard to get all of the customers, they'd lose the ones they already had by taking too many resources away from the things that they were doing well.
MS, Sony and Nintendo are each getting a slice of a really big pie. So what if they targeted their products towards different segments of the market?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I've been here (Japan) for 8 years. I was here when the PS1, PS2, and the Xbox were released. IMHO, the XBox failed in this country for one reason:
Sony has completely saturated the market here. I can rent/buy PS2 games in pretty much every conbini (convenience store - 7-Eleven, Family Mart, Sunkus, etc.) in Japan -- even in "remote" areas like Yatsugatake, Aumori, etc. Hell, I think one can buy a PS2 in Doit (think HomeDepot, Lowe's, Wilkinson). I've been to some stores where they only carry PS1/2 goods (Kotesashi Seiyu in Tokorozawa for example). Of course, right before the Xbox was released here, Sony opened the spicket (sales, promotions, etc.).
3cx.org - A truly bad website.
Samir Gupta is a /. personality who makes what seem to be very insightful and informative posts.....if not for the fact that they are completely discredited by his claims of working at Nintendo, which unfortunately he does not (this has been verified). I'm sure if they hired him however, he would make an excellent marketing person.
Perhaps this famous Slashdot troll is not really a troll, but rather one man on a quest to get a job at Nintendo, and pulling a big, illegal, fraudulent stunt to get their attention.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
The main difference I suspect is that the Japanese movies are not simply about kill counts. They have storylines, deep characters, and are often more insightful into the people they portray. US films on the other hand seem to me like they spent all the budget on explosions and special effects and forgot to pay the script writers to put in a plot. This is telling to me of the cultural differences between the two nations. Both enjoy a spot of violence, with Japanese violence being the more horrifying for me personally, but the Japanese want a story to go with it and some characters to play the story.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
What I find interesting in this article is the way games like Grand Theft Auto III are referred to as "mature titles", because they involve graphic violence. To my thinking (and probably to the thinking of a lot of Japanese people), "immature titles" would be just as apt a description (which isn't to say I think they are necessarily bad games--I love GTA3... it's just that I think violence appeals to a less mature audience).
I can have a lot of fun playing games with cartoonish characters, because I'm not particularly concerned that a game is depicted in that style... I'm an adult, and a more colorful, kid-oriented style may not have huge appeal (though really a lot of it is really charming... Tarutaru in Final Fantasy XI are just obscenely "awww!"-inducingly cute), but nor does it particularly bother me, and I'm secure enough in my masculinity, adulthood, whatever, to enjoy a game that doesn't involve manhood-reaffirming pursuits like tackling people, driving around a fast, powerful car, or blowing people to smithereens with a rocket launcher.
Nintendo, like any corporation, is concerned with making money, but I don't think for them it's as much the driving factor as it is for companies like, say Microsoft. Personally I'm rather glad they've resisted the temptation to "sell out" and focus their development efforts on stuff that falls outside their traditional domain.
They still have third party developers working on other stuff for them (as far as I know, NASCAR and NFL games available on the GameCube too).
Plus I respect the fact that they've managed to produce a decent console that sells for about half the price of the competitors' consoles while keeping the workmanship of the console itself up to fairly high standard of quality (a GameCube is a lot studier and less likely to break down on you than a PlayStation 2.)
I think Nintendo is a little misunderstood and is too often dismissed out of hand by people too concerned with what it will look like if they are caught playing a game that looks like the Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. They could make some effort to change their image, but at this point I'm not sure it would even be possible... it might be kind of like when Hammer tried to reinvent himself as a "Gangsta" rapper after having cut songs like "You've Got To Pray". They could sacrifice their niche only to not be taken seriously in the end by anybody else anyway.
So they don't like our stuff, and I can understand that, the cultures are different. What I cannot understand is the western adoption of all their games like Pokémon, Zelda, etc. The voice actors (if they exist) are dreadful without fail, the character animation is ugly, the plots are simply missing or stupid or full of the sort of crackpot magic and legend nonsense that the japanese seem so keen on, and it's only in recent years that they've even managed to get the English translation sort-of right. Some arcade games like the latest incarnations of Tekken still have japanese text in-game. They clearly just don't care about the western market, but throw their products at it anyway, where geeks lap it up because it's all mystic and oriental and looks like anime which has pretty girls in, and kids lap it up because they don't know any better and it's the only stuff available for their N64/GameCube/GBA/Saturn/Dreamcast.
The reason the Playstation is seen as a little more "badass" or mature than Nintendo's or Segas consoles is because it does not try to sell itself explicitely on a flagship character. Lara Croft is a possible example, but Sony didn't adopt her as a mascot, they also don't seem to shut out developers as much as Nintendo or Sega did. It's pretty much impossible for a smaller company to ever get a game released on a Nintendo system because Nintendo are such control freaks when it comes to content and finance, and their media is stupidly expensive to produce.
In Japan, they don't like our games because they have games made for their tastes over there which they prefer, which is pretty damn obvious. The two examples of western games given ("Enter the Matrix" and "Lord of the Rings") were both movie tie-ins and thus are really crappy examples. Perhaps UT or Q3 would have been better. I don't care if Japan doesn't like the games the west produces, so what? I care that the balance in console gaming is Mostly Japanese vs. Western Shoddy Attempts By BAM! Entertainment. It's a real shame the market is swamped by all these different Pokemon and Bomberman games that are all the same game in different coloured boxes, and are about as inspirational as a paving stone.
The one who collects the biggest paycheck.
...
You are surprised by Japanese culture.
>Make fun of Japanese culture.
A Japanese man talks to you.
>Make fun of language
The Japanese man looks confused
>Make fun of Japanese man in english
The Japanese man doesn't understand you
>east
You are in Scarlett Johanssens hotel room
>look
Scarlett Johanssen is inexplicably in her underwear
>look at Scarlett Johanssen's arse
Nice.
>look at Scarlett Johanssen's arse
Nice.
>look at Scarlett Johanssen's arse
Nice.
>look at Scarlett Johanssen's arse
Nice.
This is the great divide in Japanese versus Western cinema as well. Western/American cinema is representational in that it follows a definable logic, that there are rules that the entertainment follows. One of the greatest crimes an artist can do is "cheat" (i.e. break the rules). The killer chasing the coed is trapped in the sewer, now he's in front of her! This would cause Western audiences to throw a fucking fit. Even the highly fantastic (The Matrix) are judged about being "fair" to their own logic.
In Japan it is the opposite: logic is derived from what is presented to the audience. So if a character walks through a door in his house and ends up on Moon, that is fine since the director is trying to say something. American audiences will expect some sort of rationale for it happening (i.e. that he has some sort of To-the-Moon teleportation door in his house). Japanese art design is authoritative from the creative design of the artist.
This thirst for "realism" based upon some ruleset drives the Western aesthetic. Look at the games listed as most popular in the US: crime, sports, shooters. These are genres that attempt to capture some authenticity of an experience.
On the other side you have the Incomprehensible Japanese Videogame Plot: starts reasonably, long character expository dialogue, wierd imagery, enemies dying, enemies revealing their "true form" . The Japanese game is a vehicle for the gamer to experience the designer's 'vision'. The gamer is along for a ride, and his role suppletory to that. The gaming experience improves by how much the gamer can live up to the creator's designs: how well he can sneak and run around in a box as Snake, how totally he can learn the techniques of Forrest Law, etc.
The US saddles the player with the primary responsibility. He is the engine of the storytelling (generally. Only recently have open-ended games allowed a full realization of this).
What is music when you despise all sound?
Final Fantasy XI Online is played by people all over the world, from Japan to Europe to North America, and is very successful. There are even some (crude) translation tools in the game, so Japanese and North Americans can play together. I'm actually quite surprised this game hasn't gotten more press here on slashdot.
But FFXI is not the only game with success like that. The entire Final Fantasy series has been popular in both cultures. It is quite possible to develop games that the whole world can enjoy, and Square Enix has done just that. And to top it all off, the game is cross platform (both PC and PS2 players are in the same world[s]); something that has never been done before.
This is the best game ever. Ever. You hear me? Go buy it now and meet me on the Phoenix server (Ganiman, Tarutaru RDM).
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
This is a sweeping generalization, but popular culture in the US says "bigger everything!". Bigger food portions, bigger cars, bigger film special effects, big everything. It's trendy and cool.
Japan's popular culture shares some things with the US, more and more all the time it seems, but one thing that's notably opposite is that smaller is trendy. Big is cumbersome or wasteful or just generally un-cool. Small cel phones, small cars, small game consoles.
But it doesn't stop with the physical size of the X-Box versus a sleek PS2 or a compact Gamecube. Games themselves harbor this attitude. Enter the Matrix? Big on cramming in exclusive video, big on hype and the kind of cross-media tie-ins that are being blasted all over American pop culture. Lord of the Rings? Similar situation, and big on increasingly flashy battles.
You can see the small/compact type of attitude in Japanese games. Pikmin's my favorite and most obvious example, you've got a quarter-sized hero with armies of ant-sized helpers. In Bomberman, instead of huge over-the top US-style pyrotechnics you've got strategic, controlled blasts.
Some games walk both sides of this cultural divide, and do well in both countries. In Final Fantasy, the worlds and bosses where you do your exploring and fighting are big and impressive but the depth in the little details, the statistics and experience levels... Look how compact and efficient the equipment or character status screens are, the parts of the game where you're really doing your role-playing.
Of course there's way more to American and Japanese pop culture than big and small, but those concepts leak into many areas and most certainly influence game design and reception.