Slashdot Mirror
Internet2 Plus P2P Equals...
Bill, I'm lost in cyberspace... writes "News.com has an article up about a Direct Connected P2P network set up at universities which are on Internet2. This is majorly cool! More direct information is available at i2hub.com for those lucky enough to be located at a University with Internet2 access."
You know why "Internet2" is faster than the "commodity Internet" on college campuses? People weren't typically using "Internet2" for downloading movies and music. Just because the "Internet2" connections are less expensive, because they are funded through research grants, does not mean that students should be blowing large amounts of pointless traffic through it. The funding can get shut off just as "easily" as it came in.
Officials at the central Internet2 project said they had no theoretical objection to the students' action, at least from the strictly technological side. The network was developed to spur innovation wherever it arises, much as users of the original academic networks developed e-mail and chat features, a representative for the project said.
Yes, I think that P2P programs can be considered research and should even be developed on fast networks like this. I just don't think that students should take advantage of the *currently* open nature of the network just because they can.
Don't ruin it for everyone else like *we* did back in the late 1990s just because you want free music. Instead of fighting with the RIAA by downloading their music shut them off by not listening to it at all. Please support bands that allow the free taping and distribution of their music (see link in my signature below).
Now the files will move so fast the RIAA won't have time to see them! It's funny, laugh!
RIAA2
mostly a lot of spyware and adware.
http://efil.blogspot.com/
I highly doubt the RIAA even has access to the internet2
I have no developed opinion on the bararity of foo. -homeobocks, Gentoo Forums
Clearly the development of this application falls under the purview and purpose of Internet2 - whereas the use of it probably does not.
No matter how you want to dress it up with rhetoric, the wide-spread broadcast of other peoples' material without permission is -- under current statute -- unlawful, and leaves one liable to civil and possible criminal prosecution.
What never ceases to amaze me is how many students think they can poke at the bears with impunity, and then come crying when they get a claw across the face.
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
Well at my school, the majority of the people with access to Internet2 are the Graduate Students, and I have a feeling they aren't spending their time file sharing (Though I could be majorly wrong, feel free to correct me). Ive thought about the abilities of Internet2, and the greatest things I could come up with were to instantly download ISO's for Linux Distributions, or massive amounts of source Code, or to trade a huge wealth of research. Im sure I am missing alot.
je suis parce que j'aime
Why is there a special p2p for I2? Here at RIT we have I2 and it just works automatically. If you try to connect to an I2 computre the router does everything transparently. So whenever we connect to another college student with a p2p app I2 is used automagically.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
The US government, MPAA, and RIAA can have the first internet and we'll all move to the new internet 2 club. No Homers!
During my last year of University the network was so bogged down with p2p traffic (or so they told me) that it was a nightmare trying to download any kind of large file. Suddenly it felt like I was on dialup again. The only way to get a decent speed file transfer was from someone at another Internet2 connected school. My understanding was that any connection between 2 schools that were on Internet2 would automatically use the faster other pipe.
From the i2hub site...
:)
We are all from universities, so it's obvious that this service is for educational purposes only.
Yeah... right. And I'm sure that NCAA sporting events such as College Football and March Madness are for educational rather than commerical gain too.
From the article:
the network has drawn thousands of students from universities around the country to trade files and chat at speeds that far exceed what even ordinarily swift campus networks can provide.
Thank God! I guess Instant Messaging on this network really is instant. No more of those 100 ms delays!
The strong do what they can, while the weak suffer what they must.
It would be very interesting if the students managed to completely congest "internet2". I'm serious - if they do it then it demonstrates that we would still need more bandwidth.
This is purely a social networking system rather than a technical one. If I'm on an i2-enabled conenction, and you're on an i2-enabled connection, then any direct connection between me and you over any protocol is going to route over an i2 bandwidth link rather than going out over the open Internet link between our two sites...
Really, this is like when the Starr Report against then-president Clinton, and all sorts of ISPs who don't do content mirroring did a mirror for that document, since it was long and going to be frequenly downloaded that day. By keeping that traffic local on their own network, their outgoing Internet line was freed up for other traffic.
Knowing who is closer to your network-wise, which isn't aways the shortest physical difference or lowest number of network hops, but the one who has the most available bandwidth on the path that leads from you to them and back, when given a choice between mirrors is always very useful.
So, really, i2hub's goal is to just point out where useful content is on i2 rather than change any routing tables...
quote cut a little, but preserves original meaning. and there is too little context around to say 'it's out of context' ;)
At the end of 2002, [we] sent 6.7 gigabytes of data across 6,821 miles [...]. That's roughly two full-length DVD-quality movies [...]. That's fast."
[...] We are all from universities, so it's obvious that this service is for educational purposes only.
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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I went to the website and clicked the link for the Mac OS X software. The title on the download page reads:
Direct Connect for Mac OS X 1.1.0
Author:NeoModus
Program Type:Adware
Interesting...
yes, save the bandwitdth for those of us who are professional researchers of MP3s and porn
I love how they have a subnet ban on all of Resnet here at Texas A&M.
What do I care though. At least I know when the RIAA reads slashdot, it won't be anyone I know's ass on the line.
A common misconception is that this hub is "safe" because it is on I2. This is not so. People have been sued from using i2hub. No, I will not say who, but yes, I will say it's happened.
:-/
Filesharing is just bad. Of course I do it anyway. But if you look at your campus' bandwidth usage, some ludicrous number like 95% will be p2p traffic
I've been using I2Hub for a few months and the downloads aren't that fast, at least as someone who has been spoiled by the internet connection here at RPI. Downloads from a user at another college with i2Hub are usually in the range of 30-80 kb/s. For comparison, this is about the same speed that I get from a p2p app that let's you download from multiple sources, such as eMule. If someone I know off campus, such as a friend from home, downloads a file from me via AIM, they get speeds ranging from 150-200 kb/s. However, for ease of use and individual files, as well as a better community, I2Hub is pretty good.
It was the over commercialization of the Internet that has 'ruined' things for us.
Not that some people are sharing music and video.
But then again, sounded like you have an agenda to push.. so nevermind.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I, but probably others, realised not long ago that it's rapidly approaching the point at which the characteristics of "Internet V2 (post WWW)" can be ascertained, and certainly apart from high speed, one of them as the death of unidirectional WWW.
The problem with HTTP is (as you see with the slashdot effect) that there is no inherent mass-distribution/replication in it. What will be the next big technology will be some sort of fluid merge between HTTP, P2P (BT, etc), FTP, to bring a real massively distributed content layer. Built into this protocol would be multicast as well (in a way, P2P is inherently multicast).
This means that when you browse the web, your browsers transport layer is really acting as real-time P2P, and your network ISP would install seamless "content caching" (e.g. akamani style) as part of the network. Effectively, there needs to be a replacement of HTTP/TCP as a new "DTP" (distributed transport protocol).
Well, ok, the software being used is new...but I was trading legal live music over internet2 years ago. Theres a well known community called etree where people list ftp servers and listings of what they have and rules for there server. Someone came up with the idea of trying it with just internet2 users, so i2shn was born. Obviously, the amount of content was kind of small on i2shn...but I guess ftp could be described as p2p. It was still cool and I support this effort. And if people wanted to keep i2 strictly for educational use, they wouldn't allow dorm computers to automatically route through i2. When you give any student at a college the ability to use i2...of course they're going to do whatever they want with it. I checked network graphs for i2 at my school...and we probably never used more than a fraction of 1% of the total resources it provided us. Wicked cool.
-Stype
Bus error -- driver executed.
Think about it. All it takes is ONE host on Internet2 providing a connection to ONE host on Internet1. And it *will* happen. Just wait and see. Maybe it will happen for illegitimate reasons, but I think it will happen for very legitimate reasons. Someone will need access for some reason or another, and there you have it.
Personally, I think that instead of building a bunch of separate networks, they should build more high-speed infrastructure for the Internet. Bigger pipes and more of them, more satellites, etc. Then, the speed will be there for just about anything, and communications within organizations can be protected with VPNs or other technologies.
Either that, or build many "parallel" Internets, each with specific purposes (science, government, business, 1337 h4x0rz, etc.) with highly controlled firewalled connections between them for allowing legitimate traffic to go between them.
Port numbers have nothing to do with transfer speed.
symetrix. We are building a religion, a limited edition.
Damn serious paster copyier
Here one line you left out.
Mine.
As a musician - who sees little if any fincial value in learning music - so I keep my day job.
I believe record companies have gutted the industry of music by reducing the fare to prerecorded offering of a few.
Every CD is a "free" version of a thing that previously had value - namely live music.
As such I believe they deserve to be comodified into irrelevancy - not at all because i like free downloads - i listen to radio because its fresh - but because they have eliminated a cultural experience from the face of the earth - or so reduced it as to render the making of music a rare and unappreciated talent.
AIK
If you can get something for free you would otherewise have to pay for, it's natural to want it for free.
I've heard this from so many recording label apologists, and its stupid.
Your assumption about what is "natural" is totally unfounded. I, for one, can download any game I want, but if I'm not doing more than checking it out and making sure it works on the computer, I buy it. I bought Unreal 2k4 the day it was released, as well as Warcraft 3 and Civilization 2,3 both on release day. These are the only games I play. Why do I buy them? So that I get to see Civ4, War4, and Unreal2k4. But you deride this kind of "sampling" and then you make an assumption about what the "natural" instincts of majority of the samplees are? Thats fiddle-faddle in anyone's books.
Yes, there are costs involved with making music, and I understand that in order to have "musicians", they have to be able to make a living playing music. Lets look at some of those musiciains: Lets take a cross section of them by using, say, Australia. An Australian musician averages about 24k per year. (http://www.mca.org.au/m15240.htm)Thats not a lot. That number hasnt really changed in the last 20-30 years. You are trying to tell me that these people, who are making a meager but liveable income and are doing what they love to do, these people are in it for the money, and they need to maximize profits by eliminating file sharing. They only want people that have paid money to hear their gifts. WRONG. How would you even know what they want anyways?
At some point in the evolution of music from the orchestra to the turntable, a huge discrepancy became apparent between the costs and the revenues. Music companys to this day make tremendous amounts of money, and very little of it ends up in the artists pocket.
When did the role of law and morality become to ensure LARGE, if not ENOURMOUS profits for people who DISTRIBUTE music media? And for those few musicians that "make it big" (which for some may be to their detriment!), same question : when did law and morality's role turn into rewarding people who slap bandaids on their faces with huge cocaine addictions?
Is the point of the law to protect the musicians? to protect the music? Read the rest of this and then tell me : what, exactly, is the point of the law?
Fact is, musicians have been short circuiting the whole system. You know that musicians barely see any of the money made by their labels, but heres something you might not have thought of : they make the big bucks by taking sponsers.
Listened to any rap tunes lately? How about Nelly's "Air Force Ones", which Nike payed him millions upon millions of dollars to sing. Do you think Nike or even Nelly cares if that song gets passed around? Not in the least, in fact, without a doubt, Nike would welcome the infringement. Based on this, some might say the future of music look very grim, and neither file sharing nor record labels are helping the situation. All we can do is depend on the already existing large majority of musicians that dont do it for the money and do it for the music. Oh wait, maybe this wont be so bad...
I prefer "criminals," because legally and morally, that's what pirates are.
Or not...
Criminals. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?
You cant even be prosecuted in a criminal court for pirating music.
You have to be sued.
This just went from stupid to idiotic.
By the way : Are you aware that you just labelled over 50% of the population criminals? Should we all be thrown in jail? We'll keep the spillover at your place.
Can we get this straight, whatever way you slice it or dice it, whatever way angle you approach it from, the campaign to brand copyright infringment as "THEFT" so that people like you would confuse it with criminal acts was a PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN. Hey you bigwigs over at the RIAA : look! It worked!
Prediction : Your appeal to the morality of filesharing, on which your argument is based, will not go very far. *Your* interpre
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
Internet2 is also fully multicast enabled (up to the border router of the each institution). I've always thought it would be cool to somehow build in an option into peer to peer software to multicast software.
I imagine something like the following....
1. You announce the availability of a file
2. Other peers respond saying they would like it.
3. After pre-determined amount of time, if a threshold of users have responded that they want the file. Then send back another announcement that a multicast of the file will commence in some short time period (like 5 min).
4. Let it rip!
I'm sure there would be other problems to think about, like what happens if you drop packets....but it would still be cool.
I'm on an Internet2 multicast enabled organization, and as a test I multcasted a DVD LIVE using VLC to a friend on the other side of the world. It was really cool!