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CableCARDs and HDTV
An anonymous reader writes: "HDTV is the next big thing. I attended the NAB conference in Las Vegas last week and everyone was pitching HDTV or asking about it. DesignTechnica has an interesting article on CableCARDS, which allows viewing HDTV through a CableCARD compatible HDTV set without needing a set top box. Cable companies are required to enable CableCARDs with card-compatible HDTVs by July 1, 2004. So here's some questions: Has anyone heard of CableCARD? Is anyone planning on buying a CableCARD compatible TV? How many people actually get HDTV in their area, and how many channels? HDTV is so hyped right now but seems that there is barely any deployment."
... if you had never heard of it and you read /. ... its probably nothing ;p
Maan
If the TV has the decryptor card, this means no DVR. No deal.
We've got 4 HD channels on cable in Kansas plus our locals are going to be HD soon. Looks great. Works just fine.
The FCC recently stated that all cables boxes that offer HDTV now must have working firewire outputs. This of course lets users now record the transport stream right off the cable box, and allows DVR's to do the same. The regular broadcast channels are required to be unscrambled at all times, but the premium channels are kind of up in the air at the moment and will probably require more decryption at the end. The question is, will DVR's such as Tivo, start coming with this cardcapable thing so that decryption can happen and let us record even scrambled shows?
It looks incredible. I download HDTV rips whenever I can because even heavily compressed, it blows away my standard TV signal.
There's maybe 3 or 4 high definition channels available right now. On my cable system in Oklahoma there are 6 full-time HD channels and 3 locals which carry a significant amount of HD programming. Just because you don't watch HD doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Go type in your zip code over at I Want MY HDTV.com and see how many channels are available in your area.
That they're forced to follow?
The problem with HDTV and digital broadcasting right now is there's very little HD content. Some examples..
PBS around here (San Jose/San Francisco) only broadcasts HD starting at 8pm. They however have pretty decent content and it's all HD when they say it will be. It looks great, it's just limited in what they show.
The rest of the broadcast networks have very little content. Maybe one or two shows a day at best and the occaisional sports event. NBC had the Kentucky Derby in HD yesterday, but it wasn't even advertised as such and I didn't know if it would be HD until I turned it on.
And one of the problems with some of the "HD" broadcasts is that a lot of the cameras they're using aren't even HD. They're standard definition that's then upconverted to either 720p or 1080i. Or if you're Fox, 480p 16x9. So a good bit of "HD" sports is actually just clean SD.
Then there's stuff like ESPNHD. They usually just take the ESPN feed and stretch it to 16x9 which is really lame. They have maybe 4 or 5 events in actual HD per week.
And then there's also the question of how do you get the content? I tried over the air with an antenna and that was just painful. Even a fairly high gain one didn't work too well for me. You can't get broadcast HD over any of the DBS services (Dish, DirecTV, Voom) except CBS. You have to generally get Cable TV for that. So I got Comcast out here and get all the broadcast stuff. But it's still more cost effective for me to have basic digital HD service on cable for HD broadcast content and also have Dish Network 200 service for all the other content.
And I hardly watch TV. Sigh. But I got a HDTV so I really want to watch HD content when I can.
The service I'm currently looking at switching to is Voom which is a DBS service from Cablevision that has something like 30 HD channels, many of which are their own content. It's about the same price as Dish Network, but has fewer channels. Luckily mostly the ones I watch from time to time. I'd have to keep cable for the broadcast channels.
Some people might say it's a waste of time. And they're probably right. But HD does look awesome so at least it's kinda fun.
We've got 15 here on Charlotte's TimeWarner system.
This is really getting annoying. Places like Design Technica show up on slashdot repeatedly, none the worse for wear. Whats the point?
I especially like how you repeatedly say "Hi their" in each post. Kindly stop spamming every article with this crap.
Douglas P. Price
Here outside of Washington, DC, we get about 6 channels via cable (they cost like $20 extra though), and about 3 over broadcast...wish I had enough $$ for a HDTV though...
WASTE - The Secure P2P
I signed up for DirectTV HDTV about two months ago. I was an existing directTV customer but I still talked them into selling me the equipment for 99.00 (normally 399.00). The equipment consists of a Samsung HD DTV receiver and a new dish to pick up the HD channels. (also picks up all the international channels DTV offers)
.02
Channel Lineup:
ESPN
Discovery HD
HDMovies (Movie channel showing various movies from classics to recent favorites)
HDNet - pretty much a worthless channel showing repeats of recent Nascar Races, Horse, Races, and concerts. They also have some original series on it (I think).
CBSHD - I live in Utah and they allow me to pick up the CBS HD feed from LA. This is great because I can watch my shows an hour later in HD without needing the off air ant.
If you subcribe:
HBOHD - The regular HBO in HD.
SHOWTime HD - The regular showtime in HD.
Cost: Basis HD is 10.95 a month. HBO is 12.00 a month and Showtime is 10.00 a month.
Is it worth it?
Hmm.... I can tell you this. I am a big fan of Sopranos and Deadwood (HBO series) and love watching them in HD. I also enjoy watching Golf in High def on the weekends. You can tell a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the shows in HD and regular shows. People come over and just say WOW to the sporting events. Movies are not that much different.
So, its worth the money (10.95 a month) to me just to get golf in HD on CBS on the weekends. Basketball playoffs are also great. Its hard to watch golf/basketball in non-hd now.
Cons:
No STINKING TIVO!!!!!! I can't wait for the HDTivo to be affordable.
Just my
Since I have built my own DVR (four tuners, hardware decoder, using this software, I would really like to be able to upgrade to HDTV tuner cards and keep my DVR.
Are you listening Hauppauge?
The dogcow says "Moof!"
A 114" HDTV to be precise. Doesn't everybody have one, or are you one of those welfare-receiving, MacDonalds eating East LA pieces of trash. Come out to the Cape sometime (that's Cape Cod, you ignorant baffoons), and I'll show it to you after we take a spin in my Aston Martin, you pathetic mendicant.
Personally, even if I had the approx. 3000 dollars for an HDTV and service, is it worth it to watch TV in high definition on about 6 channels. I find it wasteful that people would pay that exorbitant amount of money to see Janet Jackson flash her... (runs off to go get HDTV)
between digital cable and direct tv satellite, I've always thought that a set top box hinders the viewer from the easiest viewing experience. A feture like picture-in-picture is lost. It requires you to program another remote, and for some people this is a pain. It can require the user to have two remotes, one to turn on the tv, switch it to cable input, and adjust the volume and then one to changed the channel and use the converter box.
For me it's not that big a deal, but for people who aren't engineers the logic of how to turn on the tv and change the channel is actually difficult for them to understand. Say for example, the television I purchased had a standard digital cable converter built in, it would make it a lot easier to use the service. Maybe it could work by the cable company sets up the firmware so make it more customized for their customers.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I should not have two remotes to watch tv, and I don't think I should have to deal with programming those multi-remotes either. Finding the codes when those batteries die at this point in the game is a waste of time in my mind.
Maybe this issue of remotes sounds petty, but this would be one of the main driving forces in getting people to buy a new television if the sales clerk can relate this ease of use to them.
Man, that's a terrible site.
It just lists all the stations within ~200 miles of you, and says if they are providing HDTV or not... According to that list, I should be recieving about 30 TV stations, and about a dozen in HDTV. In fact, there are no HDTV stations available because of range, and that won't change until an HDTV re-broadcaster is installed around here.
For a MUCH BETTER TV look-up, try antennaweb.org.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I still do not understand why make HDTVs with CableCARDs already in them to get a "better picture" when they should be concentrating on better transmission methods. The signal is still analog and will still need to be decoded and passed through analog-digital filters. So what's the point?
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
Blah you mix memes here.
The reason the government is involved is because airwaves are 'public'
Democracy works fine. Vote for people who will care about what you care about, and educate others to care about what you care about.
Refuse to purchase what doesn't suit you.
In the end companies will lose business, if you are right, and politicians who gain power will lose corporate financing.
GPL Deconstructed
For a CARD that goes into my computer so that I can watch digital CABLE. Now they've stolen the name with a completely different concept. What the fuck?
[insert witty comment here]
I own a Hitachi HD widescreen RPTV and a Sony HS20 HD Front Projector. I have both OTA and DirecTV STBs; here are the channels available in my area:
Broadcast OTA:
WGBH-DT PBS 2-1 SDTV and 2-2 HD channel
WBZ-DT CBS 4-1 HD
WLVI-DT ABC 5-1 HD
WCVB-DT NBC 7-1 HD
WFXT-DT FOX 25-1 Widescreen SDTV
WSBK-DT UPN 38-1 HDTV (Enterprise is in HD, for what little that's worth)
WLVI-DT WB 56-1 HDTV (Smallville is in HD, for what little that's worth)
Over DirecTV Sat:
76 Discovery HD
78 HDNET Movies (lame movies no one remembers, in HD)
79 HDNET (some interesting stuff like quality reporting, some lame stuff like old Charlie's Angel's and Hogan's Hero's repeats, in HD)
85 Pay Per View in HD
88 HBO-HD
91 Showtime-HD
-------
Boston is a good area for OTA HD. Also, the local cable company Comcast has finally gone HD and will rent an HD box for $7/mo. If you only have an HD ready set and want a cheap STB, Comcast is definitely the way to go (I went Sat before Comcast rolled HD out). You can also pick up a cheap OTA STB these days for about $200. The Sat STBs are, IMO, not really worth it. If I were buying today, I would go cable or OTA only. Note that HD TIVO has recently been released and should be on store shelves now or very soon.
HD is broadcast in most major metropolitan markets now. And don't forget the advantage a widescreen TV offers for DVDs. It really is worth the money, IMO.
Cheers,
--Maynard
I have not jumped in the HDTV water yet out here in the desert of the metropolitan Phoenix, AZ area - but my brother-in-law has. We spent the first three days after installing his beautiful 60+ inch TV just watching the KAET feed. Since then, HD gets used for major football games and that be it, Homer. About fifteen hours of HD programming has been watched in the two years he's had the set.
I told my wife yesterday that if we were to take the plunge - prolly next year - we'd be shortly upgrading our DirectTV subscription to HD programming.
However, I have not heard of this CableCARD thingie you speak of.
High definition channels, with widescreen programming:
ABC local affiliate
CBS "" (you haven't lived until you've seen CSI:Miami in HD
NBC ""
Fox ""
PBS ""
The WB ""
UPN ""
Discovery HD theatre
HBO-HD (Sopranos in HD, bada-bing, plus all the movies are upconverted to 1080i from their original film source msking them that much nicer than the DVD equivalent at 480p)
Showtime-HD (same as HBO)
INHD and INHD2 (an assortment of various HD programming, sports-looks like your are watching through a window in the luxury box, movies, specials, concerts, IMax movies)
HDnet HDnet Movies (various programming like INHD)
HDNets and INHDs are $6 mo. to subscribe. HBO and Showtime are included if you get them regularly. All the other channels are free with digital cable, so there is no additional fee to lease the HD set top box. The only downside is that once you've seen HD you can't go back. Other channels start looking like crap to you.
I imagine it is the same for all Time Warner Cable subscribers, but here in Austin, HDTV has enough channels to make it worth while. Half of our local broadcast stations are up {CBS,ABC}, 2 iNHD channels (movies, sports, etc), Discovery HD Theatre, Fox HD, HDNet, HDMovie, HBO HD and Showtime HD. Most of the programming is good, the box outputs any format you would want, up to 1080i. The HD Decoder box is the same price as the regular digital box. I haven't checked out the Firewire capability, but the port is there, I just don't own a cable.
Here's some information about this from the FCC:
FCC DTV Standards
and the people that made the standard (OpenCable, same people that made DOCSIS):
OpenCable Standard
--- We all brains, why not use them?
Then there's stuff like ESPNHD. They usually just take the ESPN feed and stretch it to 16x9 which is really lame. They have maybe 4 or 5 events in actual HD per week.
I couldn't agree more; ESPN has really dropped the ball here. The major networks broadcast sporting events in HD most of the time. And HDNET usually beats ESPN for broadcasting HD sporting events too. Don't buy the DirecTV HD package for ESPN, that's all I have to say. --M
So, let me get this straight.
Living in Philadelphia, I already pay Comcast $85/mo for what they call "extended basic" service, plus HBO 1,2 & 3. Their HD stuff is only available if I upgrade to digital cable. I tried it for a month several years ago and didn't find it compelling for how much extra it tacked on to my bill.
In addition to that, I also have to purchase new TVs, which if I buy the same size as the conventional TVs I have now, will cost a fucking mint and a half. Oh, and let's not forget a new TiVo.
So I'd have to spend all that money for a slightly better picture on my TV? Forget it! And if the goverment wants to make laws to obsolete my existing equipment, let them buy the updated equipment for me. I've got better things to do with my cash than replace entertainment system components that are operational and that I find satisfactory.
I get 15 HDTV channels with digital cable here, though half of them are local network stations like ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC. But I also get a few HDTV movie stations. I dont get any HDTV sports stations, but I guess it realy doesnt matter since I dont have an HDTV...
Your question is valid and needed, however, because there really is little consistency so far. What you can get in HDTV varies from market to market and with cable from provider to provider right now. This is annoying and only helps to slow the adoption of what is in most ways a better technology. I would really like to see less people trying to make their own ridiculous profits from HDTV. If they really want to make money off of it, the hardware shouldn't be about 4x the cost of a roughly equivalent sized normal TV. I know that the picture is better, but it is bullshit and always has been that the HDTV itself won't get you access to any programming. These decoder boxes cost them pennies on the dollar to make and should be built in. There is no good argument other than greed, and greed makes for bad products (planned obsolescence, Microsoft, poorly built hardware that works well but doesn't last long, etc.). I am so sick and tired of greed, and I really hope that all HDTV related companies really screw themselves over horribly here (pretty much all of them deserve it badly).
I am feeling fat and sassy
Suprised no ones mentioned this yet, but theres a new satelite provider, Voom, offering over 40 channels of hi-def programming. It seems to run about the same as standard services, $40 or so a month up to around $80 with all the premiums.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
How many people actually get HDTV in their area, and how many channels?
Actually, nearly all of the networks in nearly all of the major markets are broadcasting HDTV. If you're not in a major market, coverage is far spottier, but a substantial fraction of the people in the US do live in a major market.
The number of people actually receiving the signals is pretty low, since the TVs are expensive, but the digital signal is there, in lower resolution. The actual high-definition content is pretty low, since it's expensive to produce (requiring new cameras and other equipment), and so people aren't buying the very pricey TVs. No content, no viewers; no viewers, no content.
It also doesn't help that we're still waiting on standards like high-definition DVDs. Supposedly that's busily being resolved. They're also finally starting to put out the high-definition content over cable wires (which many people in the major markets have) and satellite systems (which are immensely popular among people too far from a major market to get cable, and also among those who find the cable companies obnoxious).
Me, I'm waiting on a cheap digital-to-analog converter so I can watch the new signal on my old TV, since the signal is clearer than analog.
But my screen is 117" diag made by Carada, and the image is generated by a Sony HS-20 Front Projector. You can get a very good Panasonic AE500 for about $1750 these days, and over at AVS Forum there are plans for cheap wall mounted screens using materials available from Home Depot. With a $200 STB, and cheap sound system you could get away with having a full home theater with a +100" diag screen for less than $2500 easy. And yeah, it's worth it! :) JMO... --M
HDTV won't be anywhere near ubiquitous for some time, probably 5-7 years, maybe longer. Takeup times for new technologies always take longer than hype suggests.
h ighdeftv020107.html
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A few comments
1) HDTV has been mandated by law, but there is a lot of consumer confusion in the market about what comprises HDTV, which TV sets will actually deliver an HDTV signal, and so on. Here's more on the confusion http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3403493.stm
2) We're looking at 5-7 (or more) years before sufficient turnaround from analog and many digital TV sets (that don't necessarily play HDTV signals) happens. Also, there is still a relative dearth of HDTV programming *compared to* traditional programming. Content is the one thing that will drive this sector, but the current situation lends itself to a chicken and egg scenario where content producers are waiting for crtical HDTV mass - while consumers wait for critical HDTV content mass - to appear.
Go here http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/
for more insight
Here's another interesting article on the topic. http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7
3) Go here for listings of what's available in HDTV format in your area.
http://www.titantv.com/TTV/MyTitanTv/Login
4) Lastly, the investment sector is cautious about HDTV. They predict universal adoption eventually, but clearly see risk factors if HDTV takeup rates don't mesh with the aggressive hype that we've seen from the consumer electronics press, companies, and associations.
Try to find a true HDTV Monitor. No, not HTDV compatible, but really HDTV.
It's not 1024x768 (DMD) or even 1280x1024 (LCOS). It's 1920x1080. Didn't the industry learn from the lawsuits on disk drive size and display diagonal measurements? (Of course they did, they learned that lying generates far more profit than the resulting lawsuits consume.)
I think it's kind of a rip that there's a ton of hype over HDTV, and that people are rushing off to buy HDTV "compatible" TVs, spending nearly $10,000 for some, and not one is true HDTV. Of course, in a year or two when the plasma screen finally fades away, the replacement model might actually be HDTV.
OK, there are videophiles who know the difference, and dig up something real like a nice Barco CRT projector. But most people are being defrauded.
Nicolas Negroponte said it best:
"When you look at television, ask yourself: What's wrong with it? Picture resolution? Of course not. What's wrong is the programming."
I'm an electronics salesperson at Sears and I looked up this CableCARD business a month ago when I was reviewing the new lineup of televisions we are slated to get around August. From what i was able to gather, the cable companies will be required to issue you a card, probably some form of smartcard, that you can insert into your CableCARD/HDTV ready set and it will instantly unlock all of your standard/digital/high definition programming. To me this seems like a big plus in making HDTV deployment easier for "the masses". I cannot tell you how many people come to me and want an HDTV integrated set believe that it will allow them to recieve HDTV programming from either satellite or cable. After explaining that they will only recieve broadcast and they still need a set-top box they are usually rather peeved at the whole HDTV transition nightmare. So, from my POV i would have to say that this is a good thing. Now if only it was a DirecTV card instead of cable i would be even happier. Cable in my city is absolute trash (Comcast). So when these sets arrive i will have the dilemna of whether or not to advocate them just because i don't want to force crappy service on my customers. I still like the old RCA 38" widescreen CRT HDTV with integrated broadcast and DirecTV reciever. I just think that set was released ahead of its time and was an RCA :(
Between the local stations broadcasting in HDTV already and the satellite or cable systems, I have well over 25 HDTV stations that operate at least 20 hours a day of content each.
Too bad I still don't have an HDTV...
"... but you can love completely without complete understanding." - Norman Maclean, "A River Runs Through It"
The FCC is going to require firewire on all cable boxes.
link
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I watch DVDs and play games in HD.
There's more to using an HDTV set than just broadcast video
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
The HD DVD consortium has yet to approve a standard. It's expected that they will decide and manufacturers and content providers will have product on the market within the next year or two. Currently, JVC manufacturs an HD VCR (the JVC-HD3000 and newer HD4000). This takes standard and HQ digital VHS tapes. Some film distributors have released films on the new format, but not all, and the content is "protected" by an encryption system similar to DVD CSS. If you're looking for HD films on tape, it's available but limited. I'd say, wait for HD DVD if that's all you care about. But a Widescreen television is still useful for 480p DVD output. I looks wonderful. --M
Here is a good site that updates HDTV listings:
http://hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html
It does not list Fox shows, because they are broadcast in 480p widescreen, not true HD. Fox is in the process of transitioning to 720p HD. Their 480p material, while not as sharp as HD, is MUCH better than SDTV.
All the big sporting events are shown in HDTV (e.g. The Olympics, Super Bowl, NCAA Final Four, World Series, NBA Championship, etc.) and the amount of HD sports is rapidly expanding. There will be a large number of NFL regular season games in HD this year, up to 10 per week.
The lack of HD content is a myth.. maybe a few years ago it was true, but we're way past critical mass now.
So what we have here is an alternative form of....watching....TV. Albeit very interesting, and easy to get, not much offered because the production market hasn't stepped up yet. HDTV's users right now are in an unofficial beta phase, even if they disagree with me they should understand a few things:
The technology is changing every month when considering HDTV.
It maybe a big jump but it's too short of what is possible.
It's expensive not matter how much you say (look what I got for $XXX/month)
I think it's funny to see the regular broadcasts come through on an HDtv, utterly useless, they're malformed in most cases. It's expensive, because the broadcast companies had to do nothing that wasn't subsidized by our government or done by other companies (laying the ground for digital and lacing the airwaves), therefore I can't understand why I see people shelling out 12 to 20 dollars a month to watch the sopranos in HD 3-4 times a month.
I thought it was funny when the story about kids being hauld off to AA like groups for Everquest addiction when that cost 10 bucks a month.....HA they should have been awarded, because their parents are getting screwed every month by the cable and satelite companies to the tune of anywhere from $25 to $200! While they reap 10 - 20 times more play time.
Well the reason why I cant post mirrors for every article is that sometimes their slashdotted by the time I get around to running wget -p :-)
That being said I use a template for my posts, but since you seem to really dislike "Hi their" I have gotten rid of that from the template
How is this "flamebate"? This is what I'm talking about, all these boxes that do not connect well to each other. He brought up a good point that I forgot, tivo. I have digital cable and if I wanted tivo, I'd have to pray that my provider has one for me to buy, but they could charge me anything they want. Maybe a "tivo add-in" could be an idea that worked that I would by from tivo and would "just work" in my tv, or at least connect up to an interface, say firewire, and would just just on the floor while the remote for the television did the rest.
those touch screen things? I have, they suck, and the vote gets hijacked. I tried writing in a few candidates, they didn't show in the "official" tally. Gee wonder why? And we have the carved in stone broadcast networks who've hijacked the public airwaves, HDTV or not, they do NOT cover third parties or independents on what passes for their "news" worth a squat, which means it's always gonna be one of the one party with two names demons gets "voted" in.
That's not a "vote",really, it's gotten to be like the vote say in china with one party or something, we have for all practical purposes now a co-operative "junta" with the *appearance* of a vote to keep the sheeps happy. And the courts? Name ONE federal judge who isn't a hand picked crony partisan of the two headed one party system, because I can't. There might be one but I can't think of one or heard of any. Ain't none of them gonna "rule" that anything going on is "wrong" now, they aren't about to bite the hand that feeds them (or is blackmailing them) even if some lawsuits got pushed ahead.
It's a junta, a military/industrial run shadow government is the real power and where the action is, the civilian "vote" and "representative government" has vanished,replaced by a facade of high political theater and a lot of acting and script reading,ie; we live in a dictatorship now, just a lot of folks are still in denial over it.
IMO anyway.
Seriously, do you all actually watch THAT MUCH tele? God...no wonder media conglomerates have 1000x the liquid capital that educational institutions do in the U.S.
When TV is no longer totally free, I won't miss it at all. They cancel all the decent programs anyway; Family Guy, Stargate: SG-1, Highlander, Angel (which is at least diversionary).
I'll stick with books, the 'net and "old school" human interaction (remember that?)
-TPH.
I bet you actually thought people actually agreed on something right? Wrong, the CableCard is not a simple smartcard a la DirecTV. The CableCard "slot" is extactly that, a standard "slot" with a standard CableCard "bus". The card issued to you will be more like the PCI, AGP PCI-X etc. expansion cards we are used to in computers exept that these will be fatter and look more like a SBAWE32 with the daughtercard and all the addional Soundfont ram installed.
All that said, its still better than a set-top, but a long way from actually agreeing upon a standard so that the card was JUST A SMARTCARD with account info on it.
General HD opinion from an owner of 2 years that catches it via OTA and cable:
Clear and crisp until something fast happens or a quick pan or scene transition. MPEG-2 really shows its age with HD.
HD will hit is mark when things are changed to MPEG-4. and Cable and the networks start playing nice so Cable will carry ALL of the stations you can currently get OTA (Over the air).
Best combo: VOOM and OTA. Best part. the VOOM box has got the OTA tuner built in.
Plus ANAMORPHIC Dvds look great on HDTVs. Other dvds that are in widescreen but not mastered properly (not in anamorphic) look aweful when using a tv zoom function.
I could talk for years on the subject
...everything is supposed to be HDTV? what happens to the millions of sets out there that will no longer work then? Or will they still(anyone), I really just don't know. I've got three colors and two black and whites, those latter are a 12 volt small model for "power outtage" times and a nifty sony watchman that runs great on a few AAs. Obsolete then, or what? I honestly don't know, but I will be annoyed if I have to junk them and get new ones to watch the same just-a-few things I watch now, if so, I probably won't, just stop watching anything except tapes on the vcr then.
He's mostly talking about the fact that you misuse 'their' for 'there' constantly. Doesn't really make me want to check out your webhosting company.
The movie studios and cable networks are so protective of their precioussss content that they won't let it go anywhere near a PC for fear that Bunnie Huang or Jon Johansen will crack it.
I don't watch much television -- most of it is crap these days anyway -- and I'm not interested in watching sports of any kind -- so I have no interest in spending a lot of money on HDTV. If I want to watch a movie (not many good movies around, either, IMHO), I rent the DVD.
There's nothing wrong with the existing digital broadcasts of satellite or cable shows, particularly through something like TiVO. I strongly suspect that HDTV is being pushed on us (and legislated by Congress) to give content providers access to new DRM mechanisms designed to take choices away from us, in much the same way that Microsoft's "Littlebighorn" release will give us lots of pretty pictures to convince us to give up our Fair Use rights on the computer.
The way out of the trap is to avoid it in the first place. If few people buy this overpriced HDTV equipment, it sets the content providers back to square one. Oh, they'll screw us over eventually, but at least we won't give them the satisfaction of making it too easy for them.
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
I was disappointed, as I enjoy Stargate: SG-1, too. Fortunately, according to MGM it hasn't been cancelled. An 8th season is in the works, and will premier on SciFi, July 9, 2004.
There is no such thing as "public" airways. They were taken away from the "public" with the creation of the FCC in order to censor content and control who owned what.
Paper ballots create the possibility of auditing the vote count. Electronic machines remove that possibility, which is why politicians are very much in favor of electronic voting machines.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Comcast Digital/HD...straight into the Mac via FireWire...nice...
Yeah, we get 8 here in Hampton Roads, VA too. To see what is available in your area look Here or better yet, Here for what is available in your area. I'm waiting for the ATI HD-tuner card to add to my system plus an antenna from the site linked to above. Fortunately, where I am at all 8 stations are within 5 degrees of each other and one stationary antenna will pull them all in.
-- Instant Karma's gonna get you! [320848 = 2*2*2*2*11*1823]
I realize that the poster is questioning for those who DO have this newfangled TV stuff, but in the interest of balance, I felt the need to put this on the record:
I don't watch TV, although I have one that has been collecting dust for months. My roomates have a family-size TV (old style) to play DVDs and Xbox games.
No one watches broadcast or cable television. ever.
Hmm... None. Unless you count the one that's on the other side of a mountain range... But I don't think I will. So none.
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
CableCards sound a lot like DVB card that are now finding a following on the PC market. Even info/help sites like vcdhelp.com have start to cover this new market. These cards have been big in Europe for some time now.
I have been using an hauppauge WinTV-Nexus-s for a couple of months and have nothing but good things to say. They "are designed for receiving, decoding and displaying Digital Video Broadcasts (DVB) via satellite on a standard Personal Computer. They include a hardware MPEG decoder and a composite video output, so the digital TV program can be displayed both on the PC monitor and an external TV set."..."can receive Free-to-View channels without the need for any specialized additional equipment. However, to receive 'subscriber' or 'pay per view' channels, an optional module (Common Interface Module) will be required, together with a decryption card, available, for a fee, from the provider of these channels."
Well that is my 2 cents....
00 FF
...to see what exactly HDTV-DVD will mean. 720p60? 720p30 1080i60 1080p24? If and when I'm getting an HDTV, I want to see movies on it. 2/3rds downscaling (1080->720) would suck (take 3 lines, combine down to two... far worse than 2 lines native). On the other hand, getting a much more expensive 1080 set makes no sense if 720 will be the standard, due to size constraints or whatever.
And have they finally agreed on a *final* standard that won't be cut off or downscaled later (analog, firewire, HDMI???). A TV isn't like my computer, that one gets upgraded or replaced quite often. They need to tell me what exactly I can expect to get, not today, but several years ahead. So far, they haven't done that.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
HDTV is so hyped right now but seems that there is barely any deployment.
This has been true for any value of "now" going back to at least the early 1990s, IIRC.
Even better, there was a guy on the evening news last week talking about the FCC's mandate for digital TV, too. Basically, it's also all hype with little reality mixed in. He said that it took decades for even the lowly VCR to gain 85+% household penetration and that it is basically a joke to expect mandatory ubiquitous digital TV by 2006 or whenever.
Regarding HDTV and digital TV: yeah, they're nice, but I'm not holding my breath until I get a good couple grand to spend on a new TV (basically not for another decade!).
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
>What exactly turns you people on about watching TV in higher resolution?
:/ Until I find something I like that can go the whole way to 1080 format on screen that I can possibly afford, I'll sit and quietly save my money... Pity I don't have a good room for a front projector. Puny townhouse with windows and glass doors everywhere I wouldn't be able to see the image real great on a sunny day. :(
With my current TV it's really nt omuch of a problem really. Kindof dumb wasting the side edges of a film on my square-ish TV screen though. And I'd like something bigger than my 19". Big-screen would be cool. But I've seen NTSC rez bigscreens and they look like crap with their 1'4" pixels and such. Higher resolution at big-screen sizes will vastly improve picture quality compared to NTSC at the same big size... Widescreen will be bonus for movies too, I'll get those side endes back without having the boring black bars on the top and bottom. I suppose I'll have similar black bars on the side instead when watching a square TV show or movie format, but at least I won't be forced to throw data away. I kindof like the Samsung DLP sets but they only have 720 native display and down-convert 1080 streams.
Heres to baseball in HD!!! :) -M
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
NTSC analog tv goes dark Dec. 31, 2006. May 2003 was the deadline for all stations to be simulcasting NTSC & DTV.
You can buy a set top convertor (IRD) right now for $300+. I decided to buy one from Best Buy after borrowing one and liking the DTV SD signal a lot better than analog. I looked it up on the website and then went to my local store... but the high tech sales dude had no idea what I was talking about.
D'oh!
My metamoderation cancels your moderation
The problem here is that you expect manufacturers to build to the 1080i/p standard before the technology exists. The best sets for high resolution out there are still CRT based, because LCD (and that goes for LCoS too) and DLP technologies simply don't offer more than 720p resolution at the consumer end of the market. In fact, there are no DLP chips out there that do more than 1280x720, and the high end of LCD Front/Rear projection is still 1366x768 (Sony HS-20). Only a CRT offers full 1440x1080i resolution, because CRTs are inherently analog technology from the electron beam out to phosphor.
If you want full 1920x1080 resolution you must either wait for LCD/DLP technology to progress to native HD spec resolution (probably two chip generations away before it hits consumer), or buy a very high end CRT based system. I have an HS-20 LCD front projector (720p native) and a Hitachi 51S500 RPTV; a low end model with three 7" CRTs and semi-decent optics. It only supports 1080i at 1440x1080. The better RPTVs use 9"CRTs, with better optics, but they're still limited to 1440x1080. The only "real" CRT systems out there that do full 1080i spec are commercial units for pre and post production, usually costing somewhere in the range of $25K - $30K.
Why is this? Because the scan times for 1080i and 1080/24p are insanely fast, and the bandwidth requirements are insanely high. It's not just a computer monitor. And with an RPTV, the convergence issues alone get in the way of full 1080i. Really, the upshot here is that full 1080i spec was written long before the technology existed to display such resolutions. Only today with the migration away from CRT to digital LCD/DLP chip technologies are we coming close to display devices capable of real 1080i. And note, plasma doesn't even come close.
Anyway, feel bad about it all you want, but I think the manufacturers are doing a fine job with implementing the standard given current technology. I note that my 51" RPTV with the higher resolution isn't much nicer than images projected against my 117" screen at 720p. Honestly, one can't tell the difference, though 480p from DVDs does suffer with such a large screen size.
The real PITA has been the fight over DRM and copy controls interfering with rollout of content and obsoleting old HD displays. There will be a lot of very pissed off customers once they realize their component only HD sets are worthless for HD content in the next few years.
Cheers,
--Maynard
I love my HD set, and have a love / hate relationship with my HD dvr (motorola 6208 through my cable provider for a few bucks a month).
If Tivo would announce an HD Tivo that has a cable card slot I'd place my order right away! Of course the price would have to be a LOT less than the DirectTv HDTivo that is available now.
Not until this post. I have not even seen or heard of a TV with such a thing. Of course since no stations around here have HDTV yet, who cares? Even Direct TV only has a few. Check back in 10 years when it's half deployed.
When there is a standard, without built in DRM, I'll consider it. Not until then.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
My impression from some limited research on the AVS Forum :
? s= &forumid=40
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php
is that EDTV is significantly cheaper than HDTV and is 'good enough'. Some have said that they prefer the look of EDTV when compared to HDTV; also some say that EDTV sets display SD TV better than HDTVs.
I read a prediction that EDTV would become the norm/standard, and HDTV would be a niche for videophiles. This sounds plausible to me.
Max.
Yup. I don't care wether a DVD is true HD, it looks a HELL of a lot better on a HDTV set. This was the primary reason I bought a HDTV set 2 years ago. Then when I started getting HDTV programming last year, I found myself using the Tivo less and watching more live TV because it IS that different.
We have HD Cable in Milwaukee from Time Warner. The high definition service (with the obvious exception of subscription channels) and converter are at no extra charge. It has 13 channels in high def:
HBO HD 500 - Subscription
Showtime HD 501 - Subscription
Local WTMJ HD 504 - No Subscription
Local WDJT HD 505 (58) - No Subscription
Local WITI HD 506 - No Subscription
Local MPTV HD 510 - No Subscription
Local WISN HD 512 - No Subscription
FOX Sports HD 540 - Subscription
Discovery HD 541 - No Subscription
InDemand HD 1 545 & 2 546 - Subscription Not PPV
HDNet 547 & HDNet Movies 548 - Subscription
I would like to dispell any myths of EDTV being anywhere near the quality of HDTV. Firstly EDTV is only 640 lines (the same as normal television) whereas HDTV can be either 780 lines progressive or 1184 lines interlaced. EDTV uses 3Mbps whereas HDTV uses 11Mbps. In other words EDTV is only MARGINALLY better than standard television.
DVDs ARE NOT IN HD they are in EDTV 640 lines, not 1152 lines.
I'm in Fishers, IN, and I receive my HDTV through Insight Cable. My bill runs around $110 per month, which includes cable modem, basic cable, classic cable, digital cable, HBO, and Showtime. The digital content requires an $8 per month STB, and the HDTV content requires a $13 per month STB. I currently receive NBC, CBS, ABC, Bravo, PBS, HBO, and Showtime in HD. I could pay another $10 per month to get ESPN, Discovery HD, HD Net, and HD Movies, but I'm not really interested in those. The HD content is not priced seperately from the other plans, I just needed to upgrade my equipment.
As far as the programming goes, most of the prime time shows are in HD now. The upconverted shows look like crap, though, so I end up switching back to non-HD channel. The PBS, HBO, and Showtime look the best. The networks seem to have some trouble synching up sound sometimes.
I've enjoyed using the service, and the price is right for now ($4 difference between an HD bill and a non-HD bill).
Have you ever heard of digital cable?
The CableCARD is shaped just like a PCMCIA card and if you go to BestBuy, Circuit City, or similar right now, you can see Panasonic HDTVs with the slot right on the front. http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se rvlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&mo delNo=PT-56TWD63
Only they are not "documented" as CableCARD because the service is not available yet, so the sales folks have no idea what the slot is for.
Nonetheless, it is there on those Panasonic sets. Probably others too.
Basically, what it does is make the TV DIGITAL CABLE READY, just like all TV sets made since the late 1980s are "Cable Ready" and do not need a STB for tuning regular unscrambled channels; "Expanded Basic" service.
However, if you want the premium channels, you needed a STB or descrambler, except for the fact most of the cable providers have moved most, if not all premium channels from Analog to Digital.
Now if you want to read more about CableCARD, there are several nice "White Papers" at www.motorola.com, or www.cablelabs.org.
These sites explain how the card works, and how, unlike Dish/DTV, the receiver should be able to communicate with the cable company via the cable itself, no phoneline connection required.
I went to the local Comcast tech center where I live and did find out that these cards are NOT transportable between areas, due to the fact they are authenticated to the physical street address where they are installed (basically they should work anywhere on that specific cable trunk, but not across town) and possibly to a specific serialized/addressable receiving device (TV, Tivo, PC Card etc.).
This will not be easy to "hack" for those who are already thinking about it, as the CableCARD is not just a PCMCIA memory card, but supposedly has an encryption ASIC on it which compliments the QAM Tuner chip in the receiver, which itself was designed from the start with encryption in mind. Never mind the Broadcast Flag, the whole thing is DRM'd up the butt.
An interesting note for the PC crowd....most SONY DTVs use ATI HDTV tuners, so hopefully we will see Digital Cable Ready cards for PCs.
This is a big deal because all of the current HDTV card providers have no problem with OTA HDTV tuning, but keep trying and failing at QAM tuning. My guess is that are not getting access to the right chipsets for this purpose, and are trying to make do with older/less capable technology...since the PCI Bus is unsecure, all that DRM would go away once the full transport stream exits the tuner onto the bus.
Since these TVs have the right chipsets and can do Digital Cable Ready, it seems like the problem is solved and just needs to be transplanted to the PC HDTV Tuner guys. Or we need to wait for that damn "Trusted Computing" (we big corporations don't trust you hacker/pirate consumers PCs) like the Intel "Sandow" platform.
Last, consider the price plunge we will see when DC Ready + CableCARD is available everywhere and 90% of the HDTVs have no slot in them. That is going to be some pricey inventory to discount when the only products selling have the slot so your new 50" 3" thick plasma will not need a phonebook sized STB sitting next to it.
Also consider how pissed off SciAtlanta and Motorola are about this...it means millions less sales of HDTV STBs to the cable companies...once all the TVs have CableCARD slots, the STB market is dead and only the chipset makers will be making money.
And pity the cable companies that have contracts to BUY STBs to lease to customers for $5-$10 per month...they will be sitting on piles of unused STBs and they will lose that extra revenue from the rental.
In this effort, each of the players has a deep financial interest in what technology goes where and when, and the fact that some companies will necessarily be screwed for "the good of the consumer" makes all of them less interested in making this stuff available rapidly or easily.
We'll see it soon, but not as soon as we should be.
And my bet is that it is not problem free in terms of interoperability, tech support, or performance.
But it is still pretty cool.
The new CableCard enabled televisions will cost a couple hundred dollars extra. For that premium, CableCard does allow you to watch encrypted video without a settop box, but it only addresses the old one-way broadcast model. It is completely useless for any interactivity like Video-On-Demand and Interactive Program Guides. The FCC is pushing for a new standard to enable two-way functionality to be independent of the cable system's encryption vendor, but they're heading down the road of a very heavy-weight Java-centric solution called OCAP. This will require a fairly beefy computer to be built into the television, if and when the standard is mandated.
my friend Frank's got this 2000 inch TV. I can't watch anything with DeNiro in it, though; his mole's 10 feet wide.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yes, I am familiar with CableCARD. I few weekends ago I attended a Comcast training and learned more about the system. Right now there aren't many TVs with the CableCARD slots. By a certain date all HDTVs will need to be compliant with CableCARD. But something you should know is that with Comcast if you use CableCARD you will NOT have an interactive guide, you will not be able to get video on demand when it is introduced, you will not be able to use a cable DVR/PVR and you will probably miss out on some other nice things as well. CableCARD is really a pretty lousy idea and I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a TV with CableCARD compatibility. As for what HDTV is available in Utah right now, with a terrestrial antenna you can receive ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS, PBS, KJAZZ (soon) and the WB (soon). Through cable you can get several channels of HBO, Starz, and Showtime, ESPN, INHD1, INHD2 and some others I forgot. In addition to that Satellite offers Discover, HDNet and maybe some others. Check titantv.com for a full listing of what is available in your area.
See my http://www.marky.com/hometheater/
(92" in that photo, but upgraded to 120" screen)
Read the FCC paper -- it is DTV, not HDTV.
DTV is digital TV, which can just be digital low-resolution TV (standard definition, same number of scanlines as analog NTSC TV).
Although HDTV is encouraged, FCC only requires 100% DTV by 2006, not 100% HDTV by 2006. (Some circles say 2007, others say 2008...)
Hi,
Those people who want to see how good HDTV can look, can download video clips from http://www.wmvhd.com (Windoze unfortunately; I think). Several of those look AMAZING....
But you need at least a 2.5 Ghz computer (at least Athlon XP2700+ or Pentium 2.8 Ghz) to play the full resolution 1920x1080p video clips smoothly at a full 24 frames per second. Looks much better than DVD if you play on a good monitor at 1600x1200 or 2048x1536... actually 35mm quality now (I dare you to tell the difference...!)
Also, watch out -- these files are BIG on that site -- something like 150 megabyte download for just a 3 minute video clip!
These clips work fine under Windows Media 9 Player. Some of the lower resolution (1280x720p) clips still look better than DVD and yet plays on a slower computer. But don't bother downloading if you have less than 1.8 gigahertz!
Hopefully it works on Linux too (anyone know of a HDTV compatible WMV player for Linux?)
www.wmvhd.com - Downloadable HDTV.
1920x1080p full resolution WMV clips. But be warned, recommended system is 3 Ghz (though it works) and the files are mammoth at about 150 megabytes for a 3 minute clip. (To play these HDTV clips, you do need the Windows Media 9 player now preinstalled on XP systems)
Hopefully, we can play this under Linux too, now that this technology is licensed:
http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5201352.html
CableCARD is not a result of a "deal" between Samsung and the Cable industry. It's the result of years of collaboration and a the "unidirectional agreement" signed by Cable companies and Consumer Electronics. See www.cablelabs.com for more information.
I came to Athens and no one knew me. - Democritus
To answer the poster's questions:
Showtime
1) Yes, I've heard of it. Some people I talked to while wandering at CES told me about it.
2) No, I'm not, but I'm not that interested, yet.
3) We've had HDTV over the air broadcasts in the Seattle area for several years now. There wasn't a lot of watch and still isn't IMHO. Comcast digital cable does offer HD over cable now. They offer these channels:
KOMO 4: Seattle Market's local ABC station
KING 5: Seattle Market's local NBC station
KONG 6/16:
KCTS: Seattle's local PBS station
Q13 Fox: Seattle's Fox station
WB22: Seattle's WB station
KCTS: Seattle's local PBS station
ESPN
INHD
INHD2
Starz!
HBO
Cinemax
I did have their cable box for HD and at the time, I didn't have that many HD channels. However, I only watched 1 show in HD, everything else I watched was pretty much non-major network and just standard def. So, it wasn't worth it esp. since I can't record in HD on my Tivos and I actually had to sit in front of my TV at 9 pm on Sundays to watch Alias in HD. How barbaric! The horror!
The extra fees and the above drawback made it not worth it for me.
_Over_the_air_broadcast_ of NTSC analog TV signals may go dark on Dec 31 2006. The NTSC output of my cable box and my TiVo will carry on.
I'm keeping my wallet in my pocket until I can get a High-Def TV, DVR, DVD, and archive (DVD burner) setup that doesn't need a cable box (or the $8/month rental) or a terrible tangle of wires and remotes. That doesn't have oppresive restrictions on playing those archives on the 1680 by 1050 screen upstairs.
no DVI. Dad got hosed on an set with HDMI. Which I told the salesman was a piece of shit DRM crap pile. I would've made the /. community proud.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I've had mine since December and absolutely love the unit! Consider a professional screen too. I've had great results with a basic 1.0 gain screen. I went with Carada, but Da-Lite is the industry leader. I can't praise this projector enough. You'll love it!!! :) --M