Slashdot Mirror


The Confusion

jmweeks writes "Neal Stephenson's The Confusion is an exhausting read--not simply in keeping track of the dozens of major characters, many with two or three names or titles or hyphenated titles; not due to its quite literal circumnavigation of the globe; not even, or at least not only, because of its interminable cycle of fortune and misfortune: Its 800-plus pages are much more taxing for what Stephenson leaves out than what he includes." Read on for the rest of jmweeks' review. The Confusion author Neal Stephenson pages 813 publisher William Morrow rating 8 reviewer Jose M. Weeks ISBN 0060523867 summary An exhausting and extraordinary read from the author of Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon.

The Confusion is the second volume of Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle (preceded by last year's Quicksilver , to be concluded later this year with The System of the World). Quicksilver tells two stories: the political and scientific development of Europe at the beginning of the Enlightenment, through the person of Daniel Waterhouse, and the adventures of "Half-cocked" Jack Shaftoe, a vagabond tramping around France and Germany, as he rescues a young woman named Eliza and does his best to win her. As the story develops, Eliza leaves the life of adventure and enters the world of politics, acquiring for herself along the way the title of Countess in France and Duchess in England; Jack falls so deeply to adventure that he disappears completely from the final third of the novel. We leave him to a certain death, an oar-slave aboard a pirate ship, half-insane with syphilis.

As The Confusion begins, Jack, in the first of dozens of reversals of fortune, wakes cleansed of syphilis by a boiling fever, rowing for a much less brutal master than expected, and somehow a member of a cabal with (I suppose by definition) a Plan. Eliza finds herself relieved of a staggering fortune and held, for practical purposes, under house arrest.

This volume follows the largely-separate stories of these two characters over the course of fourteen years, interweaving them chapter-by-chapter, as they move toward some ultimate climax that, of course, we will not have reached by this volume's conclusion. Stephenson labels each of these, though they are non-contiguous, as a book of The Baroque Cycle. Jack's story is book four, "Bonanza"; Eliza's, "Juncto", is book five.

Lazy critics will certainly remark that The Confusion has an appropriate title. Those who read at least two-thirds of it may notice that Stephenson presents a definition of "con-fused" (solids melted and then allowed to run together and mix) that bears a certain resemblance to the structure of this novel. But I read the title more as a reference to a period of time, at the cusp of the Enlightenment, in which all of Europe seems taken aback (another term for which Stephenson provides the origin, which he positively revels in doing). The world is in the midst of a deep depression, and the great confusion then is, what exactly is money?

Indeed, one gets the impression that The Baroque Cycle could just as well have been titled "How Money Got To Be That Way." Late in this novel, when Stephenson compares foundries to heartbeats, it becomes very clear that what we've been witnessing throughout The Confusion is the path through the gushing arteries and trickling capillaries driven by that heart. I recall now that in Cryptonomicon Stephenson spent an uncomfortable amount of dialog on the financial inner-workings of corporations. At the time I dismissed it as the ramblings of a particularly pedantic character; now I'm beginning to wonder if, inside Stephenson's hacker/geek-novelist facade, there isn't an accountant just screaming to get out.

Yet I make it sound dry, and Stephenson is anything but: in The Diamond Age he made Turing machines seem exciting, in Cryptonomicon it was cryptography and computer programming and mathematics in general--and he did so without the cheating we've been forced to accept these days, especially in film. And here, in the ebb and flow of silver, Stevenson constructs revenge plays, alchemical conspiracies, and an engrossing picture of the Way Things Work. There is a slow and deep pleasure in learning, in understanding; his talent is to impart this with all the visceral immediacy of swordplay.

That is not to say that he is above actual swordplay. Or conspiracies of piracy and murder and torture. In the world of Jack Shaftoe we have adventure packed so thickly that Stephenson finds he can't quite fit it all in: We follow Jack through each daring escape, each execution of an intricate plot that doesn't quite go according to plan--then we cut to the next chapter, months or years later, in which Jack has somehow found himself again destitute and in great peril. We spend half the chapter trying to figure out exactly what he's gotten himself into, and how, and what precisely happened to all of his co-conspirators, and the other half (once they've coincidentally reunited) watching them plot once more.

The worst of these is about half-way through The Confusion: After Jack and his cabal leave us successful in carrying out a particular plan, we return to Jack to find he's been working in an animal hospital in Hindoostan, hung in mid-air so that all the blood-sucking patients, from mosquitoes to ticks to giant centipedes, can feed. As he is displacing native workers I can only assume this is an elaborate pun on the word "scab." (His jokes, when they misfire, are horrendous. Example: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo.") We find his companions have been scattered by a pirate ship (filled exclusively with female pirates) and Jack has been waiting patiently three years for the narrative to return to him. This was the point I nearly put the book away.

I can accept the cyclic reversals of fortune; I can accept the method of storytelling that begins in the middle and fills in back-story as it moves forward; I can accept a very long middle volume of a trilogy, which by nature has no real beginning or end. Together though, these do exhaust my patience and at times my attention. The Confusion would be a much better novel written completely at 1000 pages than it is part-summarized at 800.

Now I fear I'm being too negative. The novel dips at the center, but it shines in every chapter concerning Eliza, and toward the end it even shines for Jack. Eliza's talent lies mainly in manipulation, and so much of her story involves cryptic political moves, hints being dropped, and relationships being exploited. As the novel begins she is still young, and her motivation is mainly revenge. She is a the Stephenson heroine: Sharply intelligent, beautiful in a fierce sort of way, sexually uninhibited, and though morally centered, vicious when wronged. (He understands his audience--geeks, male, young--and he has a pretty good idea of what they want.) As she grows older, she softens, or at the very least she becomes to some degree satisfied.

There is maturity here, for Stephenson's characters and for Stephenson himself. Moreso than anything he's so far written. He allows his characters the room, the experience, the years it takes to fundamentally grow. There is more to it than that, though: there is the classical resonance, Jack's journey with The Odyssey, the reluctant Esphahnian revenge play with Hamlet, the general Shakespearean method of History, melding the reality of Kings and Dukes with the artistic truth of fiction. Stephenson has in The Baroque Cycle given himself a canvas broad enough that he can truly develop.

About the ending: though Stephenson need not really bother to end this book, as it is incomplete until the third volume is published, he does make an effort. What it suggests about the further story is intriguing, but it suffers from the same deficiencies, as an ending, as plagues his other novels: It is tied together clumsily and it doesn't really make all that much sense. It is painfully abrupt. I think, though, that I have come to understand why Stephenson ends his books this way: his characters are so vivid, so capricious, that they drive his stories anywhere but the ending he had in mind. He closes a book not in completion so much as surrender.

Disregarding Snow Crash, which is of another class completely, this is the best book Stephenson has so far written. I score it an eight, but I do so on a scale broader than the nine Slashdot previously gave Quicksilver: The Confusion is the superior novel.

You can purchase the The Confusion from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, carefully read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

156 comments

  1. I love Neal Stephenson by tacobot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's cool how with the Shaftoe family he shows successful geeks through history. It's nice a nice change to see geeks portrayed in a positive light.

    1. Re:I love Neal Stephenson by darth_MALL · · Score: 0

      I always got that "Blackadder" feel about those characters (Waterhouses, Shafotes). They seems to be ever on hte sidelines, as far as the 'history' goes. Kinda like the narrative tool that C-3PO and R2-D2 are supposed to be. There at all the right moments.

    2. Re:I love Neal Stephenson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ....Aren't the Waterhouse's the geeks? The Shaftoe's were always anything but...

    3. Re:I love Neal Stephenson by OECD · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's cool how with the Shaftoe family he shows successful geeks through history.

      I think you mean the Waterhouse family. The Shaftoes aren't too geeky.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  2. Reading this post was taxing in itself by Jackal82277 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey buddy, dumb it down a little for the guys that just read manuals and code all day long.

    1. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Neil+Blender · · Score: 5, Funny

      void review( void )
      {
      printf( "Blah blah blah" );
      review();
      }

    2. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by SteelX · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Hey buddy, dumb it down a little for the guys that just read manuals and code all day long.

      To understand the post, RTFM. :)

    3. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by jalefkowit · · Score: 3, Funny

      OK --

      Book long. Plot confusing.

      That dumbed down enough? :-)

    4. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by cephyn · · Score: 1

      Could you elaborate? I don't quite understand what you're trying to say...

      --
      Moo.
    5. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you elaborate? I don't quite understand what you're trying to say...

      You lost me at 'could'.

    6. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by twofidyKidd · · Score: 1

      I'm so totally going to buy this book!

      --


      Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
    7. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by SteelX · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's a very irresponsible reply. You should've mentioned "SPOILER ALERT!"

    8. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      The first paragraph was a six line sentence.

      I guess Slashdot editors would probably post any written review.

    9. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Solly, Cholly. SPOILER ALERT:





      Don't read any farther unless you want spoilers



      Can't you see that I'm serious!





      Here it comes




      Blah, blah, blah.

    10. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 2, Funny
      no, not yet.

      Book Like Rock.

      That'll do...

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    11. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ritalin, man.

    12. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      No.

      Book Like Stew.

      Chris Mattern

      Life Like Stew...

      stupididiotbakamoronicmotherf***inglamefilter

    13. Re:Reading this post was taxing in itself by uhlume · · Score: 1

      A perfectly-constructed six line sentence -- nothing to sneer at.

      --
      SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
  3. You do realize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that his works are pure fantasy, don't you?

    Kinda makes you stop and think, doesn't it? Well, it should.

    1. Re:You do realize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      clever.

      oh, wait. no, it wasn't.

  4. Wheel of Time by AtariAmarok · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This reminds of "Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan, a seemingly endless series of 700+ page books with many characters who do sometimes have "two or three names or titles".

    The earlier books in the series were full of events, but that is a thing of the past: an inordinant amount of pages in the recent books are devoted finding a magic cereal bowl that stops global warming.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Wheel of Time by TheGreatGraySkwid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, please. The Bowl of Plot Device was found and used several books ago...

      The latest books are all about baths. Baths, baths, baths! Woo-hoo!

      --
      The Humblest Mollusk on the Net
    2. Re:Wheel of Time by br0ck · · Score: 3, Informative

      First for a quick comment on the review, it was quite good, but I would have been mad at all the spoilers if I hadn't already read the book.

      I just finished the Confusion today and I had far less problems keeping track of the characters than I did in Quicksilver. As soon as I started forgetting who a given character was, there would be a subtle reminder. There wasn't even a 'dramatis personae' in the Confusion if that indicates anything. For me, the first book seemed to keep getting bogged down in names and historical drivel, while the second book was very informative while still a page turner.

      There's a very good review on Salon which says it much better than I have. To quote a bit of it:

      But if you didn't like the first installment, oppressed by its seeming plotlessness, its profusion of minutiae about life during the late 17th century, and its endless disquisitions on Puritan religious life and the genealogical interconnections of European royalty, then no matter what the reviewer says about the second, you're still unlikely to give it a go.

      Readers who require clear evidence that there is, actually, a plot, before they will commit to a project that, when finished, will be about as long as Proust's "Remembrance of Things Past" and will include almost as many digressions and side journeys. ...

      Plunge away! "The Confusion" finally does start to connect the dots, and where "Quicksilver" bogged down, "The Confusion" leaps nimbly forward, like the hero Jack the Vagabond King, hopping from crocodile head to crocodile head as he attempts to survive the Trial of Ordeal ordained by the Ceylonese pirate Queen Kottakkal.


    3. Re:Wheel of Time by Coz · · Score: 1

      Ha! Stephenson may not be very good at endings... but at least his books HAVE endings. Jordan's Wheel, on the other hand, seems destined to be the Energizer Bunny(tm) of book series... I might consider buying the rest when I hear that he's done, or dead, whereas I'm going to subject myself to "The System Of The World" because I know that when I'm through reading it, I'm through with these books.

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
    4. Re:Wheel of Time by miu · · Score: 1
      The latest books are all about baths. Baths, baths, baths! Woo-hoo!

      Baths... and the bracelet rattling politics of nasty old women. He may even have moved on to something new by now, I stopped giving that thieving hack my time and money a couple books ago. God I hate Jordan, a lot.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    5. Re:Wheel of Time by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      I saw "keeping track of the dozens of major characters, many with two or three names or titles or hyphenated titles" and thought of War and Peace.

    6. Re:Wheel of Time by talaphid · · Score: 1

      Magic cereal bowl, you say? Sounds like the Wizards of Discworld are at it again....

  5. Enoch Root by Bytal · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the, if not major, then most enigmatic characters in both the books of the Baroque Cycle and Cryptonomicon is Enoch Root. A person(?) with an unnaturally(?) long lifetime. The tiny bits of information that Stephenson dishes out throughout Cryptonomicon and now in both Quicksilver and The Confusion are enough to drive anyone mad :). The Confusion has at least one, uncharacteristically lucid explanation that is worth reading. There has grown up a sizeable following, online, of other readers who are trying to piece together the puzzle of Enoch Root. Here are some links for those who are interested. LINKS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

    What's up with Enoch Root
    Neal Stephenson Wiki

    1. Re:Enoch Root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you, that is to say ordinarily, if not usually write like this? A person (?) with an unnaturally (?) verbose tendencies. The tiny bits of information that you dish out throughout the waffling of your post is enough to drive anyone mad. :)

      Thank you, and have a nice day.

    2. Re:Enoch Root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't need "an" in front of unnaturally.

      "unnaturally verbose tendencies" would've been fine.

      Thank you, and have a nice day.

    3. Re:Enoch Root by ch-chuck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, if you re-arrange the letters of his name it spells "one cohort", as well as "oh, toe corn!"

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    4. Re:Enoch Root by GileadGreene · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking of mysteries from the Baroque cycle: what's the story with the elder Duc d'Arcachon's peculiar dietary habits? I haven't seen an explanation, or even a rationale, anywhere.

    5. Re:Enoch Root by Johnathon_Dough · · Score: 4, Informative
      According to Neal Stephenson

      This is based on a real person. He states that it is one of those "too wierd to make up" type things.

      --
      If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
    6. Re:Enoch Root by halfelven · · Score: 1

      He's like the Count of Saint-Germain in "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco.

      Heh, yeah, those who enjoyed The Baroque Cycle might also enjoy the Pendulum. ;-)

    7. Re:Enoch Root by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 1

      Your problem with Enoch Root's lifespan is tied up with the fact that that Rowling's book Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was published in the United States as 'Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone'. 'Sorcerer's Stone' is, of course, meaningless, but in the world of Quicksilver, the Philosopher's Stone has particular meaning, and particular properties.

      It's often a good thing to know some history.

      [No, of course I'm not saying that Harry Potter is literature of the same class as Quicksilver]

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  6. Less Newton, more Leibniz by apsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I liked Confusion too - at least better than Quicksilver. But I missed the Waterhouse/Newton business - very little of that in the new book. Stephenson seems to be trying for a pretty tightly woven trilogy - a bit like LOTR - hard to know how to judge it before we've really seen the whole thing. Both Quicksilver and Confusion ended somewhat strangely...

    --

    Energy: time to change the picture.

    1. Re:Less Newton, more Leibniz by Dolohov · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but at the same time, the small amount of Newton we get in this book is so much more satisfying. We get a good insight into his real character and he gets set up for his role in the next book. The first book, written so much from Waterhouse's point of view, painted Newton somewhat poorly and mysteriously.

    2. Re:Less Newton, more Leibniz by bishop32x · · Score: 1

      ALL of his books end strangly, look at cryptonomicon, they walk up a beach to go steal some gold...Random?

  7. Re:This review is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, he just has a nematoad for an editor.

  8. Taken Aback by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Meaning : Surprised.

    Origin : When the wind changes direction the sails of a sailing ship sometimes blow back against the mast, i.e. they are taken aback.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:Taken Aback by demi · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, that isn't the "origin" posited by Stephenson: however (and Quicksilver and The Confusion are both rife with these little fictional-etymological anecdotes) I don't think Stephenson intended them as literal word origins, but entertaining fictionalized imaginings about the nature of terms and words.

      --
      demi
  9. The Confusion is a better read, if you can... by jea6 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Confusion is a better read, if you can get through Quicksilver. And the complaint I've heard most often is that people couldn't get through Quicksilver. If you do make it through, you are in for a real treat. The Confusion was a page-turner in the way that Stephenson's best writing has been.

    My fear is that, if this is Empire, we end up getting Ewoks in Book 3.

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    1. Re:The Confusion is a better read, if you can... by cephyn · · Score: 1

      Please, no Baroque Cycle prequels!

      --
      Moo.
    2. Re:The Confusion is a better read, if you can... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      >My fear is that, if this is Empire, we end up getting Ewoks in Book 3.

      Ewoks I can take. Gungans, and I get out the firearms.
      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    3. Re:The Confusion is a better read, if you can... by sysadmn · · Score: 1
      My fear is that, if this is Empire, we end up getting Ewoks in Book 3.
      For ghod's sake, don't even joke about it. If that happens we'll have to kill him before he gets to Jar-Jar.
      --
      Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
  10. Boiled clean of syphilis by burgburgburg · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've been using this particular method of ensuring cleanliness amongst new employees for the past few years. As long as you are willing to put up with about 7% "breakage" and a few months of beet red survivors, it's quite effective and much less invasive then injecting them with ...wait, now that I think about it, injections would probably be much more humane/effective. Boy, I wish I'd thought this through years ago. Oh, well. Live and learn (for those that survived).

    1. Re:Boiled clean of syphilis by twofidyKidd · · Score: 1

      You know, you'd probably cut that "breakage" factor down to about 2% if you would just turn the heat down to medium and let simmer for about 30 minutes...

      --


      Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
    2. Re:Boiled clean of syphilis by AceCaseOR · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to salt the water.

      --
      Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
    3. Re:Boiled clean of syphilis by wintermute42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have not read The Confusion, so I can't comment on the context of boiled clean of syphilis. But I seem to recall that along with mercury, one of the treatments for syphilis was to infect the person who had syhpilis with a non-human targeted malaria parasite (something like horse malaria). The body would eventually wipe out the malaria infection since it could not properly reproduce in human red blood cells. The malaria infection would cause high fever (104 F.) which would harm (kill?) the syphilis bacillus. Of course racking fever was no picnic. But neither was heavy metal poisoning caused by mercury (mercury just got rid of the symptoms, not the syphilis infection).

      I also have a vague recollection that the malaria treatment may have continued after antibiotics were discovered as a treatment for third stage syphilis (which infects the brain). The early antibiotics did not cross the blood/brain barrier and I'm not sure they could be injected into the spine. (Obviously I'm not a medical doctor, nor do I play one on television).

      The problem with boiling is that it would raise the temperature on the outside more than the inside unless it were done very slowly. But the malaria "treatment" was not known until the 1800s, after the time in which the book is set.

  11. Something about endings... by whig · · Score: 2, Insightful

    About the ending: though Stephenson need not really bother to end this book, as it is incomplete until the third volume is published, he does make an effort.

    Knowing Neil Stephenson, I don't expect anything different by the end of the third volume.

    --
    Peace and love, y'all
    1. Re:Something about endings... by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know Neil Stephenson! Really?

      Oh wait, I thought you said you knew NEAL Stephenson. You're probably talking about the lawnmower salesman at Home Depot or something.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  12. New Moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GAHHHHHHH MY EYES! Why is there no:

    -1 Spoiler mod?

    1. Re:New Moderation by denisonbigred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't worry, I've read the book and there is plenty that has gone unspoiled. I thought this was a rather good, and appropriate, review.

      --

      "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
    2. Re:New Moderation by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Funny

      I didn't even understand the review. Can't wait to not understand the book too!

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:New Moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GAHHHHHHH MY EYES! Why is there no:

      -1 Spoiler mod?


      Because no one's expected to actually RTFA.

  13. Honestly... by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 0, Troll

    ..who is going to bother with this drivel after the insufferable first volume?

    1. Re:Honestly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about titling your post "Pathetically" instead of imagining that the rest of the world inches along according to your inabilities? You have so little to contribute that your post has actually sucked meaning and utility out of other posts, to which you should be tied and whipped.

    2. Re:Honestly... by iainl · · Score: 1

      I think you're being overly harsh, but I struggled through the first half of Quicksilver myself. The second half is better, but The Confusion (so far, I'm only a couple of hundred pages in yet) absolutely blows it out of the water. Its well worth persevering, honestly.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  14. Re:What does "on the spoke" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    technically, it's "on teh spoke"

    but yeah, I'd like a definition too. google searches only turn up slashdot where it gets used. anyone? bueller? bueller?

  15. The Review by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

    Thanks for taking the time to write this thoughtful review. Can't say whether I agree with you or not, as The Confusion is waiting for me to finish Broken Angels. However, I liked Quicksilver and had some of the same feelings about it that you use to describe this work. I agree with your statement that Stephenson is maturing as a writer. His writing is getting more complex, and that can result in it being less easily read by many. Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon had the obvious geek hooks that suck in the /.er, but in these last two the geek factor is less obvious.

    From reading Quicksilver, I agree with your statement that this could be a history of how money came to be what it is today. It also seems to be about the development or maturation of empiricism and how it came to be the dominant force in society. This is certainly relevant today with the rise of the neoluddite, anti-science faction on the American right. The Confusion is next in the pile, and I am looking forward to reading it.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:The Review by Builder · · Score: 1

      Broken angels rocked! I'm waiting to see more from Richard Morgan, as I've been very impressed by his first two outings.

      Tell me what you thought of the book once you finish the last page :)

    2. Re:The Review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Needing to think long and hard in order to parse the sentences in the review does not make the review thoughtful, you know?

    3. Re:The Review by Johnathon_Dough · · Score: 1
      I don't think that the geek factor has lessoned at all, I just think that it has shifted focus. his past books were definitely aimed at the typical modern geek. Computers/Sci-Fi/Nanotech/etc. Whereas this is more for the type of geek who wants to just "know stuff", especially historical.

      I have read both books now with my laptop sitting nect to me, so I can research some concept he has mentioned in passing, or to fact check something he mentiones in detail for truth.

      The conclusion I have come to, he gets the overall correct, and makes up the fine points.

      Checkout the annotations for Quicksilver

      --
      If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
    4. Re:The Review by Greg+McGreggor · · Score: 1

      I would highly reccomend The Confusion. I thought it was a page turner and easy to follow. The whole book was written from a geek perspective. I found it fun and informative. Plus it had pirates, how wrong can you go with pirates?

  16. This book review... by Sn_wC_t · · Score: 0

    sucks.
    It sounds like the guy hated the book. All his points show aspects he doesn't like, and then relieves it with fun aspects of another Stephenson book. I get the impression that he is a fan of Stephenson because he likes some of his other books, and Stephenson has become trendy.

    But...thanks for the review anyway, I'm happy to hear about this book.

  17. OK, I looked at Amazon.com's ... by MisanthropicProgram · · Score: 1
    review The Confusion and I see that it looks pretty good.

    I'm sorry, but I didn't get that from the review. What's the opinion again?
    It would be great for a geeks - thumbs up or thumbs down - in the beginning. Yes?

    I have to read extremely long and boring papers all day. It would be nice to see in the first sentence of a review - it sucks for geeks! or It's great for geeks!

    Sorry, I'm in a crunch, and I don't have patience for long ... writings.

    1. Re:OK, I looked at Amazon.com's ... by ankit · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sorry, I'm in a crunch, and I don't have patience for long ... writings.

      Then this book probably isnt for you... ;)

      --
      Don't Panic
  18. Re:SASKATCHEWAN RULES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I didn't know Slashdot was available on gopher. NEAT!

  19. This reviewer should first learn to by oconnelm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    write, then proceed to share his meandering thoughts in a somewhat effective manner. Apart from the fact that I think the review is at least mildly opposed to placing etymology in an understandable and vivid context, he tells me nothing of value, nothing that I couldn't get from a few moments chatting with anyone who's read the book. How about using reviews that read at least as well (or as poorly) as the text they're reviewing? It may mean fewer posts, but it could certainly add to the content. In the present case, anyone who finds entertainment or value in the review should switch to reading L.Ron Hubbard, and get a personality test to boot.

    1. Re:This reviewer should first learn to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the review is at least mildly opposed to placing etymology in an understandable and vivid context

      BS detector on 11. Now shut up.

  20. Turning down to medium and letting simmer ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 1
    doesn't boil off the syphilis. It just poaches it (which, admittedly, can be delicious, thought that is neither here nor there).

    You have to boil them if you want them clean enough.

    1. Re:Turning down to medium and letting simmer ... by twofidyKidd · · Score: 1

      Ahhh yes...
      Operations manuals says, "Heat on high until boiling, then decrease heat to medium and let simmer for 45 minutes, or until tender. Serve with fried support staff, garnish with sprig of marketing dept."

      I always forget the garnish...

      --


      Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
  21. And the title read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A very fitting title to this book.

  22. Is it possible.. by stratjakt · · Score: 1

    To review sci-fi without making it sound utterly stupid?

    I'm sure the book is fabulous, but is there any way to summarize the plot of a sci-fi novel without making it sound like a 6 year olds daydream?

    "Ok so theres this guy and he can fly an go through space but then these bugs go in his ears and eat his brain! The make him quit his job and become a tabledancer on a space ship to pluto! And then this giant talking half-bear thing comes and wants to beat him up but he has a ray gun so thats the end of that!"

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Is it possible.. by iantri · · Score: 1

      Similarly, I'm not entirely sure that it is possible to create a non-silly looking book cover for a sci-fi novel.. (I have not seen the cover for this book, BTW)

    2. Re:Is it possible.. by chaidawg · · Score: 1

      The book isn't sci-fi, more of a historical fiction.

    3. Re:Is it possible.. by Johnathon_Dough · · Score: 1
      Well, considering that this is by no means "Sci-Fi" as it typically is used, apparently not. This is a novel about people making their way in the world as it was. Not necessarily as it was imagined to be. Their situations are made up, but it would be much better described as historical fiction, than anything else. As all of the main characters are consistently caught up in the world affairs of the late 1600's.

      In many cases an author being labled sci-fi is nothing more than marketing to his past audience. This book would fit much better on the normal fiction shelves than sandwiched in between the latest Space Opera or Swords and Sorceror's epic.

      --
      If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
    4. Re:Is it possible.. by NaDrew · · Score: 1
      In many cases an author being labled sci-fi is nothing more than marketing to his past audience. This book would fit much better on the normal fiction shelves than sandwiched in between the latest Space Opera or Swords and Sorceror's epic.
      At my store, Stephenson--including the Baroque Cycle--is shelved in Science Fiction for one reason: because that's where people expect to find him. I agree that these would be better off in the straight Fiction section, but that's how the book business works. Once an author is "labeled" as a mystery or science fiction or romance writer, forever will it dominate their destiny.
      --
      Vista:XPSP2::ME:98SE
    5. Re:Is it possible.. by halfelven · · Score: 1

      is there any way to summarize the plot of a sci-fi ovel without making it sound like a 6 year olds daydream?

      Well, i thought we were discussing about The Confusion, which is _not_ scifi.

  23. Subject of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... did not start with this book, rather Stephenson has been interested in the process on moeny and worth for a long time now. Check out his short story (yes, he occationally can write short stories) The Great Simoleon Caper which you will easily find on the net.

  24. So it's more of the same? by fuzzy12345 · · Score: 1
    I loved Stephenson's earlier work, but hated Cryptonomicon. After his prior successes, it appears that his editors could no longer offer helpful suggestions (or demands) and his craft went out the window. Way too many characters doing unlikely or inexplicable things, long, wandering storylines and a plethora of other troubles left me shaking my head.

    From the start of this review, it looks like nothing's changed. You'd think he was getting paid by the word!

    If his new stuff turns YOUR crank, that's great, but I'll have to be satisfied with my old copies of his classics.

    --

    Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
    1. Re:So it's more of the same? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by "classic" you are referring to such titles as "Snowcrash", I think that the proper phrase to use when referring to your feelings about his work should be "the worst pile of sci-fi excrement ever to leave the bowels of an in-bred mule."

      Nearly every other sci-fi writer that has ever lived is better. Spider Robinson, P.K. Dick, Asimov, Greg Bear, Niven, P.F. Hamilton.. start reading good sci-fi and stop paying Stephenson to write such drivel.

    2. Re:So it's more of the same? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn trolls, why don't you shut the hell up?

    3. Re:So it's more of the same? by halfelven · · Score: 1

      After his prior successes, it appears that his editors could no longer offer helpful suggestions (or demands) and his craft went out the window.

      In actual fact, Stephenson grew up as a writer since his "prior success". This latter books are targeted at a different audience, one who expects things more complex and refined than cyberpunk.

  25. Bah. by DJTodd242 · · Score: 1

    Am I the only person who read Quicksilver and was yelling at the book "GET TO THE POINT!"

    Personally I loved Cryptonomicon, but Quicksilver dragged so much that I doubt I'll bother to continue reading the series.

    1. Re:Bah. by DrVomact · · Score: 1
      When Cryptonomicon came out, a lot of people asked "is this science fiction?". My question was more fundamental: "Is this a novel?". So since I thought Crypto was pretty flaccid in the plot department, I'm not going to bother with Quicksilver et. al.

      One might also keep in mind that Neil Stephenson has never written a satisfactory ending. He really seems to have a good time writing novels, but seems to put little thought into driving things to a logical conclusion. It is therefore unlikely that this new series will ever actually have an ending. A termination, maybe--but not an ending.

      Caveat emptor.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    2. Re:Bah. by Coz · · Score: 1

      Actually, I read "Quicksilver" and asked myself, "Was there a point?" Then I got through "The Confusion" and asked, "Did I miss a point?" and answered myself "No, it's not there yet."

      Now, if "System" doesn't have at least one, preferably two, possibly up to three points... I'm gonna be blunt....

      --
      I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
    3. Re:Bah. by harmlessdrudge · · Score: 1

      Not just an inability to end. While Cryptonomicon was in many ways a great yarn it could have done with some serious editing. So much so that I doubt I'll read any more books by Stephenson until they are published in abridged form. His prolixity, apparent mission to educate (hard to distinquish from pointlessly flaunted erudition at times) is, in the end, insufferable--if you value your time. I do. A pity really. I read Cryptonomicon in the Philippines after having lived there for a few years, so it had some added resonance. His article in Wired on the wiring of the planet was by far the best thing I ever read in Wired [http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass.h tml] and I'd be surprised if it was NOT professionally edited. I am sure I was not the only person to find it by reading raves about it in the next issue (who has time to REALLY read Wired regularly?). I found waiting for the feedback a useful pointer to what was worth readng.

  26. Find a cliff, jump off - please by strictnein · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    you're a piece of shit

    next time you see the person you love most, imagine that happening to them, and see how funny you think it is. if you truly pass this video off as being in any way funny, please take a look inside yourself and realize what you've become

    there's trolling (posting links to goat.cx and what not) and then there's being a disgusting human being

    1. Re:Find a cliff, jump off - please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new around here. I agree with what you said, but saying it is pointless. The guy's posting as AC and perhaps didn't even read your response. If he did, do you think he'd care? Naaah.

      Anyway, if saying what you did helped you, it's quite ok, just don't expect the trolls to take note (since they crave attention they'll actually enjoy your response.)

    2. Re:Find a cliff, jump off - please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoying the occassional (OK more than occassinal) troll, I totally disagree with your assessment. Good trolling is an artform. Getting a post with a goatse link hidden deep within modded up requires skill. Getting frist post requires skill. Coming up with a post consisting of nothing but meaningless techno-babble and getting modded Interesting or Insightful requires skill. Getting a good flamewar going requires skill. Mocking Slashbot groupthink can be amusing. You need to think about what you are writing, spend time on it.

      This is absolute filth. This is not good trolling. All the good trolls are now banned, so now we have to put up with this disgusting crap to fill the void left.

      To the author of the post, put some effort in. Until then, you are a filthy piece of crap and should die so we can all spit on your dead body you worthless piece of scum

    3. Re:Find a cliff, jump off - please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I found that very funny, you fücking sh1t!
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
      HAHA

      BTW, FÜCK YOU.

    4. Re:Find a cliff, jump off - please by strictnein · · Score: 1

      No... i'm not new, and i really enjoy a good troll now and then... I just take issue with this

      I knew it wasn't going to do any good, but I just had to vent

  27. Re:What does "on the spoke" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's a variable of "Off the hook"

  28. Black Adder and Shaftoe by wintermute1974 · · Score: 1

    Yes, the Shaftoes' are not really Black Adders. They really are more akin to very muscular Baldricks.

  29. Re:What does "on the spoke" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's a variable of "Off the hook"

    So it means "awesome"?
    Urban Dictionary for Off The Hook

    How do you get from "off the hook" to "on the spoke"?

  30. For Quicksilver? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    That's my complaint as well, a pretty major spoiler for Quicksilver I'm trying hard to suppress before I read the book.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:For Quicksilver? by cptgrudge · · Score: 1

      What spoiler? I saw no spoiler. I saw only... words.

      --
      Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
  31. What is money? - two takes by lopati · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Kieth Hart:
    The idea of money as a source of social memory was also crucial for John Locke who figures prominently in our story as the philosopher who inaugurated the modern age of democratic revolutions. Locke was obsessed with money's role both in establishing a progressive social order and in subverting it as its criminal antithesis. Indeed he believed that money launched humanity from the state of nature onto the road to civil government. As long as men's possessions were limited to perishable products, the scope for property was restricted. Money, by offering a durable store of value convertible against all useful things, unleashed the potential for property accumulation and for the intergenerational transmission of inequality. For Locke then, money was indispensable to that development of cultural memory on which civilisation depends.
    Bernard Lietaer:
    First, let's define what a currency is, because most textbooks don't teach what money is. They only explain its functions, that is, what money does. I define money, or currency, as an agreement within a community to use something as a medium of exchange. It's therefore not a thing, it's only an agreement--like a marriage, like a political party, like a business deal. And most of the time, it's done unconsciously. Nobody's polled about whether you want to use dollars. We're living in this money world like fish in water, taking it completely for granted.
    Typically, it's both those things; a store of value and a medium of exchange. While economists often include 'a unit of account'.
  32. Quicksilver and the style of the writing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I remember when I started Quicksilver, I had a terrible time with it. Not the subject or the density, dictionary sized historical fiction is right up my alley. It was something I couldn't put my finger on in the writing. I had trouble "parsing" the sentances, mostly the dialog. It took me a third of the book to get the hang of it.

    No such problem with Confusion, but I guess my brain's adjusted.

    Just wondering if anyone else noticed that.

    -- ac at work (20% through Confusion).

  33. Lazy by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lazy critics will certainly remark that The Confusion has an appropriate title.

    And critics who want to say the same thing but are too pompous to do so will criticize the `lazy' critics.


    -Colin

  34. what? and again WHAT? by rozz · · Score: 0

    is this part of some "obfuscating posts" competition?

    --
    "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  35. I hate Stephenson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There, I said it. I guess I'm not a geek anymore.

  36. Cryptonomicrash by paraphase · · Score: 1, Funny

    Anyone able to produce such excellent works as Snowcrash and Cryptonomicon definitely has my respect...I'll keep buying Stephenson's books until...wait, I still gotta run out and get Quicksilver....

  37. Snow Crash by abigor · · Score: 1

    The reviewer says "Snow Crash" is of "another class completely", implying that it's really good or something. I thought "Snow Crash" sucked. It was just silly, and the writing wasn't very good. That book sees so much undeserved hype, and I can't figure out why. "Cryptonomicon" was much better, although let's face it, that's pretty faint praise.

    So if the reviewer is a fan of "Snow Crash" and enjoyed this novel too, then maybe I'll give it a pass. And first I have to finish William Golding's "Pincher Martin". Now there's another class completely...

    1. Re:Snow Crash by protohiro1 · · Score: 1
      Well, that's your opinion. I really liked it. A lot of geeks like me like it too. I like the baroque saga because I am a sucker for historical fiction, a sucker for the history of computing, a sucker for the history of science and a sucker for sword fighting.

      I think people read for different reasons. I know that people that enjoy science fiction don't read for the same reasons that "lit geeks" do. If you are reading Golding, you're probably a lit geek. My girlfriend is one as well and she can't understand the appeal of Stephenson, or Broken Angels, or even a historical novel like Unicorn's Blood.

      I have trouble understanding why people like to read Salinger short stories or Jonathan Franzen, that stuff is boring for me. I think people like me read to be taken places we can't go or just to be wowed by the application of neat ideas, as seen in Snow Crash. (or even some of those Niven books, which are written in a way that would give a lit geek fits). Lit geeks seem to read out of an appreciation for the art of writing. They like how a writing might layer symbolism into a passage, or how they challenge conceptions of narrative. (just examples, I'm not a lit geek, ask one what they like about peoples writing) My girldfriend likes books that are emotionaly evocative without being trite. I personally don't care for that.

      So anyway, maybe you think that Snow Crash was silly. I think it was cool and exactly the kind of book I want to read. If you are looking for the height of the craft of writing...you aren't looking for Stephenson. If you are looking for a geek adventure that will be fun to read and also explore all sorts of cool bits of history, then, I suggest stephenson.

      As an aside, I like some lit and I think its because it does take me to worlds I haven't seen. I liked Remains of the Day and its insight into the life of a servant. I like some Wharton because it interesting to see what life was like in America, esp New York, at the time. And if you don't like Wodehouse you haven't read it.

      --
      Sig removed because it was obnoxious
    2. Re:Snow Crash by abigor · · Score: 1

      I agree with all that you've said, except I'm not exclusively a "lit geek". I liked "Cryptonomicon" quite a bit, like I said. I read "Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion" probably once every year or two. I've read other classic SF like "Dune" probably a half-dozen times. I also like Philip K. Dick a lot (although he is pretty uneven). And so on.

      I too like the whole "carried away" feeling one gets from reading, but neat ideas by themselves aren't enough. In other words, that feeling comes from well-written fiction that also contains enough invention to really transport me. Some SF has it; most doesn't, because the writing is generally so poor. Writers like Cormac Macarthy have it - if you haven't read "Blood Meridian" or "Child of God", you should check them out; both are quite horrifying.

      I agree about Franzen. Boring, boring.

      Here's another one for you: Elmore Leonard. No SF in sight, but enough incredible writing and great plots to make you feel like you're right in the middle of a pack of dimwitted thugs plotting some ludicrous scam. It's the kind of writing where you eventually glance at the clock and just can't believe that three hours have passed. This is the kind of writing more SF needs. Imagine how much better "Perdido Street Station" might have been if in the hands of a competent writer.

    3. Re:Snow Crash by vroomfondel · · Score: 1

      I personally enjoyed Snow Crash for its idiosyncratic style, but I have been led to understand that some readers found them off-putting. Should you change your mind about The Baroque Cycle, you will find it largely free of the stylistic indulgences that essentially defined Snow Crash. It may not suit your personal aesthetic, but if it doesn't it won't be for the same reasons that Snow Crash failed you.

    4. Re:Snow Crash by jmweeks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not saying Snow Crash is "really good or something," though I do think it is a decent novel. I'm saying that it's hard to compare it to any of Stephenson's others, the same way it is hard to compare Vonnegut's other novels to Slaughterhouse Five: there's something about it--its place in sci. fi., its place in regard to the explosion of the internet--that makes it the one book that's always going to be mentioned in Stepehenson's "From the author of..." intros.

    5. Re:Snow Crash by abigor · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the clarification. I didn't want to come across as insulting...I'm mostly just bewildered by the exalted status of "Snow Crash", I guess.

      The analogy with "Slaughterhouse Five" is a good one. Thanks again.

  38. Eswhatian? by pnot · · Score: 1

    ...the reluctant Esphahnian revenge play with Hamlet...

    Erm. Anyone care to tell me what "Esphahnian" means? Google won't.

    1. Re:Eswhatian? by attercoppe · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's the name of a family in the book. This is a non-spoiler bit of info that, as you have experienced, doesn't really make any sense if you haven't read the book (although the E. family is in Quicksilver). Although, it doesn't make much sense to me, either; I don't really see a parallel between Hamlet and Vrej Esphanian et. al. versus Jack Shaftoe. Anyone?

      --
      Hardware Geeks Do It With The Covers Off!
    2. Re:Eswhatian? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means 'of Esphahn'. Eliza and Rossignol suspect it's an alias. It's in the book, somewhere...

  39. That sounds familiar - by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

    was it in Harry Potter?

  40. Re:Ouch! My neck hurts! by protohiro1 · · Score: 1

    My god people can be awful to each other. (I didn't see the video, the still from the NY times was enough) It makes me very ill to think about this crap. Hey, humanity, can we not have anymore wars, ok? Can we try that? That means you guys in Sudan too.

    --
    Sig removed because it was obnoxious
  41. A proper noun by dlleigh · · Score: 1

    "Esphahnian" is the name of a character in the book.

  42. Re: duc d'Arcachon's diet by attercoppe · · Score: 1

    See this for a brief explanation; follow the links there for more detail.

    --
    Hardware Geeks Do It With The Covers Off!
  43. An end? by Johnathon_Dough · · Score: 1
    To everyone who always says "His endings lack any sort of conclucion."

    I have seen the endings of his books as much more ambiguous. There is apparently no "happily ever after" or "the butler did it" in Stephenson's story's. Instead I always get the feeling he is trying to say that this part of the story is over and now life goes on.

    i know it is entertainment, and everyone expects a beginning, middle and end. But, until you die, is your life like that?

    --
    If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
  44. Currently reading Quicksilver... by cr0sh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...and getting to the point of its "end" - maybe 100 pages left to go or so.

    Anyhow - since reading Cryptonomicon, and now Quicksilver - and what I am hearing about Confusion - I steadfastly believe that Neal is trying to tell us (geeks? maybe) something, that he is trying to impart on us some form of wisdom that most men have lost.

    Now, I know that is a grand bit of hubris to suppose this - who knows what Neal is really thinking or trying to do, and to surmise that this is what he is doing seems to be rather arrogant (and I am someone thinking this!)...

    I think he is showing us not only what and how "money" came into being - but how it can be done again - but this time in a fashion that is free from government meddling (ie, taxes, tariffs, fees, etc), among other ills which affects current monetary systems. He started delving into this with Cryptonomicon - but it dealt more with the "bank", less with money - how to store your "money", in other words, so that governments have no say about it. The Baroque Cycle is showing how to "make" money - that is, create a currency of exchange, because that is all that money is - a substitution for barter, because it is hard to carry around pigs and chickens for trade with you everwhere. It is showing it in a quasi-historical account. We, as geeks, should be following up the leads, where they are "true", and finding out the historical truth behind them - to learn how money works, where it came from, and most importantly, how governments function with (and without) it. I think that is the direction Neal is attempting to lead us, if only we would look and follow.

    We need to wake up - fully - and recognize that we live in a corrupt world society, and that we have the power to change it, because we control the means of communication of this planet. We can either sit back, and wait for the chains of enslavement to be shackled upon us (if we don't get killed or worse by our fellow "civilized" men), or stand up and make the difference to free the world from this corruption.

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    1. Re:Currently reading Quicksilver... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Or he could just be writing a good book. You know, to make money?

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    2. Re:Currently reading Quicksilver... by Eisenstein · · Score: 1

      Then he would write Romance novels.

  45. My Thoughts on Baroque by loftis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thanks for the review. It was well written, and mostly how I thought about the two books. I cannot but expect my impression to change, though, when System comes out this fall. This is not 3 separate books, it's one really big one, and I expect that we are going to see some major ties to Cryptonomicon in 3.

    Since the major theme of Crypto was the development of a secure form of electronic currency, and the machinations that went into it, I expect to have some more great ties to the idea of credit and soft currency and trade drawn in System.

    Is is only me or did some of the themes in the book, a la the Royal Society's rise and fall based on political support, patronage, etc., ring alarm bells to those of us in the F/OSS community? Is there a parallel to the beginnings of modern science and commerse to be found in the study of the Scientific Revolution? If so, technology is going to get cool in 50 years.

    --
    Developing Retail Point-of-Sale Software
  46. Cryptonomicon References (Spoilers!?) by attercoppe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Those readers who are still paying close attention towards the end of the book, and enjoyed Cryptonomicon, may catch the "foreshadowing" for some people and place names in Cryptonomicon. (The Cabal's Mr. Foot, Queen Kottakkal, etc.) If you need more help, check out the section in Cryptonomicon where Randy flies to the island the crypt will be on, and note names of the island, the hotel, the sultan, the grand wazir, etc. Allow for spelling changes over the years.

    --
    Hardware Geeks Do It With The Covers Off!
  47. Oh my fucking god: longer? by cmason · · Score: 2, Funny
    The Confusion would be a much better novel written completely at 1000 pages than it is part-summarized at 800.

    Wait, you want it longer? Please, Jesus, don't encourage him to write even longer.

    -c

    --
    "If you are an idealist it doesn't matter what you do or what goes on around you, because it isn't real anyway."-R.P.W.
  48. Could have been worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He could have been stripped naked and had some ugly white trash chick point at his dick.

  49. Provocative style by andr0meda · · Score: 1


    I liked Snow Crash too, like many other people, and I'm not a native English reader/speaker/writer. With his down to earth style of writing, Stephen is able to skip right onwards to the more interesting bits of a story where heroic characters are in all sorts of precarious situations and problems. On the other hand, he is able to fill loads of sections with total and utter rambles that you wonder if you should really read on. But you usually do read on. And it usually is worth it, too.

    I remember SnowCrash going religious about half way through, rambling on and on about the meta configuration of religions. But the metafors start piling up near the end, and the hystorical background somwhat enriches your understanding of the real message he's bringing. Stephenson is trying to make the book itself resemble the Metaverse, which is why some of it sounds a bit chaotic and wired. But that's mainly why I like the book, to be able to find out what this Stephenson character is trying to say, not having all the answers spooned up immediately.

    Then of course, the cool settings, fast paced timing, sexy character traits, a malfunctioning society and intense situations are extremely sci-fi and thus interesting to any techno fanatic. Who would not want to try out the virtual worlds of SnowCrash, to walk with Hiro, and riding boards with Y.T., harpooning vehicles..

    --
    With great power comes great electricity bills.
  50. there is no "dip at the center" by halfelven · · Score: 1

    The novel dips at the center, but it shines in every chapter concerning Eliza, and toward the end it even shines for Jack.

    Well, it dips only if you don't enjoy "things baroque" only for the sake of themselves. I have to confess i'm a sucker for this kind of super-intricate plot that sprouts gratuitous detail at every step and branches off endlessly in subplots.

    The Baroque Cycle has a great second book in The Confusion. Highly recommended.

  51. Re:What is money? - how about banking? by DrVomact · · Score: 1
    I've always been fascinated by the concept of money. However, I think the role of banking is at least as interesting as the question of what money is--and I think you can't understand money if you don't understand banking. Despite what Lietaer says, money isn't just a social contract to accept some currency. If it were, we could all agree to accept dust bunnies as currency, and be rich. I suspect (though I never studied economics and don't pretend to know anything about it) that private banks had a great deal to do with the creation of modern currency. Governments have issued gold coins for use use currency for a long, long time. But even gold is not terribly portable (especially if you have a lot of it), and coinage has been notoriously subject to debasement and counterfeiting. (It's called the former when done by the government, the latter when done by unlicensed individuals, but in both cases it means passing coins that have a lower than advertised content of precious metals.)

    But a "letter of credit" from a bank is very portable, and keeps its value as long as the bank continues to exist. (I.e., so long as their banca isn't rotta.) Letters of credit, bank drafts, bank notes and so forth are, I suspect, the real beginning of modern currency.

    Stephenson talks about this stuff? Dang. Maybe I should buy the books after all! --Though, come to think of it, why doesn't he just write essays?

    --
    Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  52. With the exception by KnightStalker · · Score: 1

    of the symbolically named Phillippine Shaftoes of the last quarter of the twentieth century. Nothing really Baldrick-like about them. But Jack and Bobby definitely play Baldrick to E.R.'s Blackadder. If you were thinking of contrasting them with the Waterhouses, I think that clan might be better identified with Hugh Laurie's character. (With Stephen Fry as the Comstocks?) :-)

    --
    * And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
  53. "I have a cunning plan" -- Jack by KnightStalker · · Score: 1

    Oh, what would I give for an "Edit Post" feature. One that can only be used for good.

    --
    * And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
  54. Good troll by ishmaelflood · · Score: 1

    You almost had me going until you listed Robinson. And who's Hamilton? (Rhetorical, I'll find out myself).

  55. A Hard Read by PiasBrick · · Score: 1

    You think this book is tough? Have you read "Crime and Punishment"? This book also has at least 3 names for each person. One thing that makes it tough is that all the names are Russian (nothing against Russian names. I think everybody would agree it would be harder to read a book with names that are different than your own culture.). What is really the hardest is each character is called by a different name by each person. Example: Your sister my call you Bill, your mom William, your cousin Billy, your wife Willy, your friend Slick Willy, your uncle Silly Willy, your co-worker Big Bossman, and your garbageman Jeeves.

    1. Re:A Hard Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You read Crime and Punishment? Dang, now I have to stop bragging about reading Dhalgren

  56. His novels are more entertaining than essays. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1
    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  57. Baroque Cycle/Crypto* as Economic History Textbook by corprew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the things that I've always found curious about this current cycle of books, is that it seems to be a series of books written with a purpose -- to give people a firm understanding of the fundamental principles underlying economics, value, and money

    Cryptonomicon covers in excruciating detail, but with a story interested enough to keep you reading, the principles behind cryptography, which would be needed for a cryptographically sound currency, but it also covers modern ideas of value in corporations (various incarnations of Epiphyte) as well as the changing economic nature of gold.

    Hg and Confusion also cover in detail what the ideas of money and value in their respective periods, and the level of detail can only be described as exacting.

    So, I think that irrespective of what you might think of them as novels -- I happen to quite like them but opinion seems to vary -- they're definitely the most fascinating economic history textbooks in the history of the world.

    As economics history textbooks, they're extremely well written as they keep you engaged as a textbook might not. A lot of people just assume that Stephenson is just an unspeakable pedant, but I assume he's a man with a mission. I also assume that this mission is that he thinks it is important that a lot of people understand the actual basis behind the modern economy and the modern economy's development.

    Therefore instead of viewing it simply as a book, view it as a 'A Citizen's Illustrated Primer'[1] that will entertain and inform in equal measure about the things that NS thinks are important. Personally, I can't wait.

    --Corprew
    [1] a reference to the instructional book in NS's book 'The Diamond Age.'

  58. And elitest slashdotters will criticize in turn. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    What's your point, and why is this modded up Insightful?

    He doesn't really think it's confusing (more at con-fused, see review).
    It's his REVIEW that's definitely confusing, and it needs revision.

    But you managed to make a witty observation/play on words. How cute. Here's a cookie.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  59. I love queen Kottakkal. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    I knew there was something about her name. And it wasn't in any encylopedias/historic references that I could find. Now I gotta dig up my paperback copy of Cryptonomicon for a once-over.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  60. About Cryptonomicon by MojoReisen · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or does anyone else think that Cryptonomicon was derivative of Gravity's Rainbow ?

    --
    "Nothing is impossible for the man who refuses to listen to reason"
  61. Somebody help me out here. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I read Snowcrash because somebody told me I had to. I did. "The World of the Future as Envisioned by Somebody Who Uses a Mac."

    Snowcrash was unbelievably immature and completely implausible on an endless number of counts. The Ultra-Cool central idea, (a programming virus for Humans transmissible simply by looking), was half-baked and under-developed. What a shame. The only thing which kept that book floating was Neal's fun and punchy style of prose. (Sounds like the charismatic wise-ass in the class who knows more raw facts than the teacher, knows how to deliver them, but who still flounders like a dying fish when asked about the Meaning of Life.) Still, when read with the understanding that the whole book was (meant?) to be a pulp joke on the same level as, Kill Bill, I found it to be almost entertaining. Until the ending. Neal needs a good smacking for that ending. And his editors need to be fired.

    Whatever.

    More interesting was his internet-distributed essay he wrote after discovering Linux and ditching his Mac. Though the ending was also ill-focused and confusing. Pattern?

    So the long and short is this. . .

    NO WAY am I going to torture myself with 1200 pages of his latest series just to know what the buzz is. And since the review doesn't cover what I want to know, I'll ask it here. . .

    Does Stephenson's expose of economic 'reality' take into account forces like the Masons, Knights-Templar, Rothschildes, the Jews and all that good stuff, or is it just another attempt to fill people with a self-satisfied belief that they know more than they really do?

    Is Neal Serving or Harming?

    Thank you.


    -FL

    1. Re:Somebody help me out here. . . by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 1
      Does Stephenson's expose of economic 'reality' take into account forces like the Masons, Knights-Templar, Rothschildes, the Jews and all that good stuff

      Yes. And Quakers. And non-conformists. And alchmists. And Dutch nationalists. And MIT. And much, much more.

      This is rich, deep and seriously hard work to read. It's a book for when you have a lot of time to read and aren't going to be distracted. I'm about halfway through Quicksilver and struggling a bit because it isn't an easy book to read in ten minute snatches in the midst of a busy life, but my opinion is that it's worth it.

      I think the comparisons between Stephenson and Umberto Eco are fair, and I also think that Eco was the best writer of the twentieth century.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  62. Not Enoch Root by Math+F · · Score: 1

    The rotten fish eater, although I can't remember his name right now, was clearly a bad guy, while Enoch Root is more of a mysterious/good/Gandalf character.

  63. fantastic review! by simon44 · · Score: 1

    This review is fantastic: it thoughtfully discusses the major characters, themes, and structures of the book, and places those discussions in the context of the author's other works and the trilogy as a whole. I think that the people who have complained that the review is too long and too complicated just haven't read enough real book reviews. Try reading the New York Times Book Review; that's the way literary criticism is done. And as others have said -- if the review is too long and complicated for you, you probably won't like the book. And while yes, there were spoilers, I don't think they would hurt your enjoyment of the book much at all. Fiction this complicated deserves multiple reads. It's a different book each time. Like Cryptonomicon and David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest, these stories unfurl in the reader's mind. The real story is something that can't be represented on paper.

  64. The Never-Ending Story by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1
    "Jordan's Wheel, on the other hand, seems destined to be the Energizer Bunny(tm) of book series."

    There seemed to be some sort of countdown process earlier in the series. Earlier, he seemed to be killing off one or two of the Forsaken (= nazgul-copies) per book. There were about a dozen of them, and it looked like that once the forsaken were killed off, it would be time to battle the Dark Lord Saur.. er Shaitan.

    However, a couple of books ago, he started to add in new Forsaken to replace the ones who have been killed.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  65. Re:What does "on the spoke" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's more to the intarweb than Google:

    WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE

  66. A Fair Review by Gordon+Santonic · · Score: 1

    I didn't see "The Confusion" as a particularly hard read, far less heavy going than Part1. A lot of it is a Shaftoe-led seafaring yarn. While still expressing some serious ideas, Stephenson still has a lot of laugh out loud funny moments in te same way as Cryptonomicon. But if you didn't like that, run the other direction...