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E3 - Nintendo Shows DS Details, Realistic Zelda
An anonymous reader writes "Following the earlier leak of Nintendo DS pictures, there are hands-on details regarding Nintendo's handheld console over at GameSpot - Cube-Europe also has a list of Nintendo's first-party DS games, including 'Animal Crossing DS, Mario Kart DS, Metroid Prime: Hunters, a new Super Mario Bros game, Super Mario 64X4, and WarioWare Inc. DS'." Elsewhere, xDCDx writes "Nintendo just showed at their E3 conference a trailer of the new Zelda game for the Gamecube [there are also screenshots available], this time using a more mature visual look, rather than a cel-shaded one."
Remember the cool CG Link/Gannondorf battle Nintendo showed us before Gamecube came out? And then they created that annoyingly cute cell-shaded Zelda game instead?...I do
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
...Could you get "Realistic Zelda" and it is a Headline :-)
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. -- Hunter S. Thompson
Zelda looks simply AMAZING... They are finally giving the people what they want. Not to mention the DS which craps all over the PSP by Sony. Good times, and the show doesn't even start till tomorrow....
Ubuntu- Linux for human beings.
You know, I didn't mind the "Cell-da" look of the Wind Waker game. I acutally liked it, and my daughter (now 5, going on 12) liked it too. (Right after we finish "Kingdom Hearts" I've told her Link is next.)
I never got the cries of "mature Link" from folks out there.
But after that video - damn. It looks great (the castle looks a little blocky, but ah well), but the rest of it was, well, kick ass.
Will I still be able to play this game with my daughter? I think so. While there's still violence, it doesn't look like "blood and guts" - just the same kind of violence in other Zelda games, just now with better effects.
And that Balrog creature?
Here's hoping the next Zelda game is as long and wonderful as Ocarina of Time was.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
So, mmmmmmm. Delicious. All these systems! Games! Have your stupid "X will pwn Y" arguments, no one cares. The fact is that there's some good hardware coming out and you are free to buy whatever you like. Remember: Only YOU decide which one pwns the other. Both will be successful regardless.
"Nintendo just showed at their E3 conference a trailer of the new Zelda game for the Gamecube [there are also screenshots available]"
Ok, those look damn smoooooth if I say so myself BUT are those in-game shots or the dreaded "let's show the incredibly breath taking cinematic art and make it LOOK in-game even though we will soon find out after dropping 50 bones that the in-game graphics are as bad as ET the Extra Terrestial on the Atari 2600!"
After the kickass showing by Capcom with Viewtiful Joe, I can't wait to see what kind of madness they bring forward in VJ2.
Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, and a few other games are enough to justify the purchase of a Gamecube. And now with VJ2 coming out, there's not reason not to get one.
I'll give MS credit - 4 years ago, you would never have thought that they would trump Sony... and they did. Halo 2 looks great and will sell a million+ copies in November-December alone.
But Nintendo owned the show. The crowd went absolutely bonkers when they showed realistic Zelda. And the skepticism was thrown out when the DS was revealed - it looks great.
In short, E3 2004 won Nintendo is's respect back from many people who had given up on Nintendo (I am not among those people - always loved Big N). It's like that Simpsons episode, where bart lets lisa into his germ "bubble" to try and win the hearts of the students back... "Look... Isn't Nintendo! And it's winning us back!"
As long as there's third party support, I've got a feeling that the DS will succeed.
Goo goo g'joob.
including 'Animal Crossing DS, Mario Kart DS, Metroid Prime: Hunters, a new Super Mario Bros game, Super Mario 64X4, and WarioWare Inc. DS'.
For a moment, I thought Nintendo was still milking Mario like there's no tomorrow. I'm so glad they're moving on and producing entirely new fun games, like Zelda...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
This guy is just another guy blabbing about how *he* doesnt like the visual effects of a particular game.
Tons of people (myself included) lived the look of Wind Waker, and besides, the game isn't about the graphics, its about the fucking GAME.
no comment
The games are good, and that's what matters most in the end. Don't like them? Don't buy the system. It's as simple as that.
Goo goo g'joob.
What about the Metroid Prime 2: Echoes quicktime movie?
Starfox quicktime movie?
Advance Wars: Under Fire screens?
DS high res renders?
WarioWare DS & Super Mario 64x4 screens? Metroid Prime: Hunters & PictoChat screens?
EToychest... Good times.
I think that the error was not the game itself, but to show one thing and deliver another. When The first Dolphin Demos (Dolphin = Gamecube project name) came in, the killer one was Link vs Ganon. But then they showed the Windwaker, with its celshaded look, and that drove many away. Probably had they showed the WindWaker images from the start, the reaction woulnd't have been so negative. WindWaker is still an awesome game, by the way, only too short.
You are right. Project Gotham Racing, Halo, Metal Gear, GTA, Manhunt, Final Fantasy and every non-Nintendo game are pushing originality as well. Have you played the games or what?
If the average gamer wants his franchises like they remember them, I would think that Cel-da would be THE game to own.
Compare the visual style of Zelda I, Zelda LTP, and even the N64 versions to Celda.
Now compare it to Real Zelda.
Yeah the first batch were cartoony, not realistic. So the realistic version is going to be trying something different.
Me personally remembers the storylines and gameplay of previous zeldas before I think of graphics. That's what I like about my franchises, continued excellence in the game, not the graphics.
-- taking over the world, we are.
Wow! As much as I loved the cel shading in Wind Waker, I'm glad to see Nintendo taking a different approach for the next title. Part of Nintendo's problem is their image of being a kiddy game company. Games like Wind Waker, though VERY impressive visually, only help to cement that image in peoples' minds.
There is no way in hell anyone's going to look at this new game (assuming those aren't pre-rendered shots) and say, "That's for kids! I don't want to play THAT!"
Did anyone notice that the thunder and lightning are out of order in the video?
Anybody else feel like the PSP was underwhelming after the barrage of cool stuff we got for the DS today? I really wasn't hyped about the DS until today. I dunno what it was specifically, I guess it was just imagining sitting on the recliner, connecting to the net via 802.11, playing somebody on-line, and using the stylus to type messages to them. I just feel like we're getting a portable that has come closer to being a PC. I mean, geez,imagine Command and Conquer on that thing.
"Derp de derp."
You know, I was just over reading Gamespot, thinking, "Damn, their site is slow, they don't usually have problems like this..." After a couple timeouts, got fed up, come over to Slashdot. "Oh, that's why..." =)
Erm. And you're going to tell me next that Ocarina of Time is exactly how the average gamer remembered Zelda from the 8/16 bit generations. Ocarina of Time was a radical change from previous Zelda games, and it didn't do poorly at all.
That was a tech demo, not necessarily a game in development, as mentioned elsewhere.
And, as sibling comment stated, it's the gameplay, stupid. Wind Waker, as far as game engine went, was VERY similar to Ocarina of Time. For some inexplicable reason, though, people took one look at the game and decided it was bad BEFORE ACTUALLY PLAYING IT.
I, personally, disliked Wind Waker, but NOT because of the graphics. I personally rather enjoyed the graphical style. However, Wind Waker eventually devolved into endless sailing and one gigantic fetch quest with really nothing original about it.
You make the baseless assumption that Wind Waker hurt Gamecube sales. What makes you think this? And what makes you think that Ocarina of Time-style Zelda is more "realistic" and less likely to garner the same complaints of "kiddy" that idiots and fanboys spew about Gamecube games of all description?
This is my sig. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
I like their take on Zelda.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
And N-Sider has some screenshots from GameCube/GBA/DS games, including all the DS first party titles. Looks like MKDS will have some courses from MKDD? And the new SMB game looks... well, a bit out of place, but cool nonetheless. Doesn't look like it's using the second screen that much, though.
I'm still stumpted as to why DS would be able to play GBA games if it's an entirely different system, but whatever. IGN seems pleased.
For every karma whore there are four more people with mod points to kill.
If that is the final music, I will eat the keyboard i'm typing on - it's almost certain that the music has not been composed (fully) yet and/or they just didn't use the real music for the demo.
:)
At any rate, the game isn't due out until 2005 sometime, so I wouldn't worry much
You do realize that every Zelda except for the N64 ones had a cartoon look to it, right? Probably the only reason the N64 games didn't have a cartoon look was because the N64 wasn't powerful enough to do cell shading.
Look at the instruction manual for Zelda 1. It's got pictures of every enemy in the game. There's the in game picture, and the "what it really looks like" picture. The later picture looks exactly like the Wind Waker art.
Let's just hope that they don't screw it up by requiring a bunch of Gameboy Advance to get the most out of it... :P
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
Okay I was aware that it was coming but surely allowing a product to mature (much like what has been done with the playstation) would be a bit more beneficial?
So far I've got a GameCube, GameBoy Advance and GameBoy Advance SP and to total off the collection I guess I'll be getting the DS now but there appears to be alot of potential in the current platforms that is being ignored.
For example, broadband on the GameCube could be pushed further to actually selling the adaptors and membership as retail. Why not sell Games and online memberships (and top up kits) for connecting to online servers? Games set you back ~$99AU an online gaming pack could sell for around $40AU for something like 40 hours of gaming or more.
A company recently released a GPS connector for the GBA SP, okay it looks a bit cheesy driving around with a GBA on your dashboard but how about a more slimline, perhaps mature, design?
Wireless connections are a big thing with Nintendo (Wavebird wireless controller and GBA wireless) imagine being able to link up your GBA with the BroadBand adaptor then downloading games to your GameCube memory card for transfer to your GBA; perhaps make blank GBA Paks available for downloading cartoons or tv shows via the GameCube?
So early next year or there abouts we will have the GameCube NEXT platform (or whatever they plan on calling it) pretty much leaving people with a pile of 2-3 year old Nintendo consoles that may never be looked at again. Any ideas on what to do with them???
I hope nintendo do what i think they might do. The DS could be an awesome little gadget for surfing the net at wireless hotspots. Its got 2x lcd screens, why not have the top screen as the web viewer, and the bottom touch screen as a virtual keyboard. It's got all the capabilties for this to happen, it's just the question of weather nintendo will allow it or not.
in the early days people were looking for a "killer app"
three words: rogue fuckin' leader
I also reply below your current threshold.
They need to come up with some better suspense building taglines to go along with their cool looking game. Seriously.
We've actually got a lot of fun out of Pacman Vs - and I think there's some entertaining connectivity games to be made. But the GameCube doesn't have enough titles right now, and making high-quality/small-audience titles like these 2 is sort of a kick in the shin.
Four Swords may have required this staggering amount of hardware as part of the game - but it should have been optional on FF:CC.
I'm sure some people have that hardware (or know enough people with GameBoys) - but lots of us don't, and still want to play games with friends that don't have GBA's.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
But anyway, the point being.... an existing franchise can still be the basis for very innovative games.
As much as people complain about all the sequels, the reality is, it is infinitely easier to sell a game, new ideas or not, if it builds on a franchise people already like. Just as with movies, when you have a built-in fanbase, it makes sense to use it. As unfortunate as it is, it becomes a lot more difficult to be successful with a wildly new game if the characters and setting and world are completely known..... certainly not impossible, but it IS more difficult.
If it means that Nintendo develops some very cool new game but puts Mario in it, rather than some unknown character, in order to help make sure it does well, I say more power to them.
-Tom
Fine. We'll connect the dots then.
For months prior to this E3, there has been constant speculation about how crappy the DS will be, and how stupid the designers were/are for including two screens. "How can they do that without making it look stupid?" people asked. Over and over and over again.
Then everyone sees it and realizes Nintendo isn't staffed by a bunch of total morons. Then, in the space of one web page, it goes from "Sony will win. Give it up. Gamecube sucks. Blah blah blah" to "wow, the DS is cool. Zelda isn't cel-shaded any more, so that's also cool, and the PSP is a giant pile of crap."
Over the next week, the game media and technology pundits will also, grudgingly, realize that Nintendo, like Apple for PCs, is the market leader in video games. Sony succeeds with volume. Nintendo succeeds with innovation.
By the way, I have 9000 karma.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
"like Apple for PCs, is the market leader in video games"
Umm.... there are games for Apple? Since when??
The PSP might be a good system but it won't play my ancient Gameboy games. Nintendo will stay dominate in this market as long as it remains backwards comparable.
If the internet has taught us anything, its that there is a market for old games with horrible graphics, heck even text based games are thriving online. Some exciting new handheld isnt going to remove are desire for nostalgia.
Now if the PSP released a bunch of old games from Atari, Sega, Intelevision, and NeoGeo they might have something.
As for Link I hope its great. Ocarina of Time was beautiful and excellent but it had such a slow start, more random brainless fighting please. I still say the A Link to the Past is the best one so far, hope this changes my mind.
Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
What! You mean more realistic than this?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
The demo was done BY Sega. There were a handful of other developers with short demos for the DS, including Konami, Bandai, Hudson, Namco, and Square.
Mmmm, -funroll-loops
I agree with you that the gameplay should be the deciding factor, but the storyline?? That is probably the WORST part of zelda games. They're the same story every time.
Always the same boy who discovers he's a hero, you collect three trinkets and get the same master sword. You then complete a few more dungeons and fight the same final boss and rescue that same princess.. for what reward? Oh I get the TRIFORCE again, I never saw that coming!
It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.
Thank you, total fringe lunatic who obviously doesn't have children or even really remember what it was like to be a child.
You know, some of us have no problem dissociating the product being produced from the political motives of the people producing it. I'm not defending Disney's political agenda-- I hate infinite copyright as much as the next geek worth his NaCl-- but for the love of god, don't deny kids the chance to be kids just because you don't like who the producer voted for. If you're going to find something wrong with the Disney ouvre of work, look for it in the content and not in the context. Context changes and is subjective. Show me hard evidence that a Disney production-- not a law they endorsed, not a bill they lobbied for against, but an actual, released to the public (or not) work with the Disney name-- was harmful to the people at large and children in particular, and I'll immediately destroy anything of theirs I own. Till then, keep your psychotic viewpoint away from my cousins, nieces, and nephews.
Oh, and you should play Kingdom Hearts to promote one of the most US-friendly video game producers today.
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Blame Nintendo for making the most expensive current console now that the PS2 is down to $150 and a GCN + GBA with non-defective display + cable is $210?
Give me a fucking break. "The Gamecube is more expensive than PS2 if we throw in some randomly selected periphals on the GCN side". What in the hell does that prove?
By similar (il)logic: The PS2 costs $300.00. (PS2 + Final Fantasy XI with hard drive + EyeToy). After all, you need those peripherals to play a very few selected games, just like in the case of GBA + GCN connectivity.
This isn't the first time Nintendo has used the over-under screen combination for a portable game. In fact, the first time this layout was used was in 1982 in one of the old Game & Watch games. Amusingly, a version of Zelda was even released in this configuration.
Also worth mentioning is the fact that a multi-screen G&W was also the first Nintendo system to debut the d-pad, the little cross-shaped directional control that replaces an un-thumbable joystick. More than 20 years later it has been copied by everybody and is still used on every console you can buy at SuperTarget.
I enjoyed Wind Waker a lot, and thought the cell-shaded graphics were great. I never saw the realistic Zelda trailer that seemed to cause so much dissapointment when the cell graphics were revealed. Personally, I think it carries the style of the older games -- especially Link to the Past, the greatest of Zeldas -- perfectly. Graphically, anyway. The game itself wasn't perfect, but lots of fun. I'm not going to complain about the graphics in the new one, though -- they look great too.
Veering off topic, Beyond Good and Evil is a cell-shaded adventure game similar to WW but superior in almost every way, IMNSHOBIK. The graphics are better, the environments more detailed, the story more interesting, the characters more entertaining. My one complaint is that it's short -- about as long as WW minus the scour-the-ocean bits. Which is sort of a theme of the game: not annoying the players. Suitable for children, too.
The enemies of Democracy are
Actually, I think both Apple and Nintendo succeed with blithering, rabid fanboys who'll drool eagerly over anything emanating from the general vicinity of their respective corporate offices....
Which is cool and all. And Nintendo puts out quality products (if they didn't, they likely wouldn't have aforementioned rabid fanbase). But, having played and owning both the PS2 and GameCube, I think it's a bit disingenious to suggest that Sony can't do innovation (or, for that matter, that Nintendo can't do volume: case-in-point, the GBA).
Plus, just as a completely personal observation, I've tended to see more of what I would call truly innovative games for the PS2 than the GameCube, but I can't tell if that's simply because I tend to see more games, period, for the PS2. For my record, it's not innovation, per se, that's Nintendo's strongest point, so much as, like Apple, an ability to produce a good solid product, even if it's not the most overwhelmingly original thing on the market. Which is just as important, I should think.
Sean Daugherty "I have walked in Eternity -- and Eternity weeps."
this time using a more mature visual look, rather than a cel-shaded one.
I've watched the new Zelda video about three times, and I firmly believe that Wind Waker looks more "realistic" than this new Zelda. What I mean is this: watch the trailer for Wind Waker and if you didn't know any better you'd swear it's an animated feature. There is little difference in Wind Waker's presentation, if any at all, and a well drawn cartoon. Watch the new Zelda trailer, the "realistic" Zelda, and there's little realism. You can tell, immediately, even from a screenshot that this is a video game. Sure, the graphics are fantastic. But the bar to which you're holding it too, reality, is much higher than that of the animated Wind Waker. Miyamato is well aware of this, and cited this in defense of Wind Waker. I am curious what he thinks of this new design.
What's more is that the graphics in the new Zelda are not stylized. They're generic, to be frank. It's a guy in green riding on a horse out of a generic look fantasy castle. This is a scene that could've dropped straight out of the ass of LOTR, with its trolls and army of orcs with clubs, massing on poorly textured hills. In fact, until you see Link up close, this may very well have come from any number of E3 firstlook videos. Even the vaporware Fable has more style than this Zelda.
I suppose this is closer in style, perhaps, to Ocarina of time. But technology was what limited Ocarina, and Nintendo bravely sidestepped that ever present technological limitation with Wind Waker by animating it. This is a step in the wrong direction for the Zelda franchise. Will it sell more? Sure. Is it more creative? Based on this trailer, no.
Mark my words: this Link will have collision detection problems. You'll spin the camera and see the inside of something else. Because this new world is trying to look realistic, when something happens that defies realism, a box falling awkwardly, or enemies disappearing, or whatever number of usual video game annoyances, it will break the spell. We're used to it because it's video games. But that rarely happened in Wind Waker, and that's part of what made it so great. When enemies disappeared in Wind Waker, for example, it was acceptable and perhaps even more dramatic that they disappeared in a puff of dark evil smoke. Why? Because it was not a "real" world, the animation style created a sense of surreality. I may be too harsh on an early video here, but I see not even a sliver of the emotion in "realistic" Link that I saw in Wind Waker's "Link." The graphics are unquestionably impressive. However, this new Zelda has no character, no style, no color, and no artistic focus to it.
And I take offense to the original poster claiming that this is more "mature." It isn't. Animation does not equal immaturity and (perceived) realism does not equal maturity. In fact, Wind Waker was one of the most emotionally jarring and touching games I've played in a long, long time, and I would argue was far more "mature" than GTA3 and its derivatives. The ability to connect through the television screen and the beyond the controller, to transcend the game on an emotional level, demonstrates far more maturity than better graphics. Shame on you for thinking otherwise.
You mean Nintendo, the champion of online connectivity?
Also the only one who's done it right with the Nintendo DS? Nintendo has said for a long time that they have their own strategy for online gaming. Who wants a keyboard while you're in the middle of playing a game?
The first one that jumped to optical media?
And optical media is better than solid state? Optical media is only cheaper (more capacity is cheaper).
And who could forget how fast they made a color portable with a backlight.
Which is still more expensive and more costly than the portable they still sell without a backlight, and still has shorter battery life.
Don't forget that they're the first company with a system that did full 3D graphics and analog control with force feedback (with pixel shaders and anti-aliasing to boot), with 4 controller ports. And the company that set the standard for 3D third person games with Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. The first system to offer 1st party wireless control. And did optical storage right with fast load times. Hell, even the Dreamcast has far better load times than the PS2. And the 3DO has significantly better load times and far better audio than the PSX (SF2 for the 3DO lets you start a fight within 30 seconds of turning it on. PSX takes two minutes). Sony can't learn from their mistakes. How useful is two joysticks compared to analog L and R buttons, which started with the Dreamcast?
You can't develop everything; every feature has a trade-off. At least when Nintendo brings something to market, they do it right.
Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
I haven't played Majora's Mask, but I've completed the Ocarina of Time and the Wind Waker. The core gameplay, for the most part, is the same. The biggest difference is cosmetic, and the changes in gameplay were rather minor (which isn't a bad thing... the Ocarina of Time was a genuinely fun game, and there haven't been very many similar games that have come close to the same level of quality). They improved the "battle engine" a bit by giving Link a few more moves, and they added a little novelty to traveling the overworld with the sailing theme, but it's still the same basic game... same lock-on targeting, many of the same or similar moves, many similar or identical weapons, many of the same kinds of monsters, ect. Dungeon design also follows pretty much the same patterns as before, also, with a number of overworld side-quests (same as before also).
I personally enjoyed the Ocarina of Time more, partially probably due to the fact that before the Ocarina of Time, I'd never played a game like it before (I don't think one truly existed). The Wind Waker, in terms of gameplay, wasn't a huge leap forward... it did improve on its predecessor in a few ways (graphics, better battle engine), however it also took a few steps back (instead of having seven great dungeons to collect seven mystical artifacts, you have to do somewhat hum-drum and at times boring overworld side-quests.)
I hope they take their time with the next Zelda and go back to having ten quality dungeons (plus mini-dungeons and overworld quests), as was the case in Link to the Past and the Ocarina of Time.