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Home Theater Keyboards?
Meeper writes "I've been commissioned to build a Home Theater Computer system, but there is a distinct lack of keyboards that are suitable. The keyboard needs to be equipped with Bluetooth connectivity, compact, and include a built-in mouse or touchpad. The keyboard will be used on couches, so a solution such as the Logitech diNovo Media Desktop is unsuitable due to the normal freestanding mouse. Have any Slashdot readers used a keyboard which fufills my requirements?" Or, on the other hand, what best-compromise solutions have you come up with for melding ease of use with sufficient control?
Depending on what I want to do with my HTPC, I access it wirelessly through either RDC or VNC with the tiny iBook I normally keep sleeping under the couch.
Absolute control, and it's smaller than most wireless keyboards. The only real downsides are price (if you wouldn't buy a tiny laptop anyway) and that establishing control takes about 2-3 seconds.
RD
Get a trained monkey. You know you want to.
I use Windows remote desktop (RDP) on my laptop to access my media box...
Gyration has the best solutions I've found. Their mouse can be waved in the air to move the pointer, and they have a compact keyboard + mouse set that's intended for HTPC type solutions. It's not cheap stuff, but it looks nice and works well.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/keyboard /sk7100.asp
Its not quite what you are asking for, but I've good results in that area using an iPAQ and writing my own little apps to allow the functionality I require. It can also double-up as a universal remote control for parts of the system that aren't necessarily under computer control. If its a dedicated home theater system I would have thought this would make more sense actually; an PDA is a smaller, handier size and it would be a pain to have the cat hit "CTRL-ALT-DEL" on a keyboard half way through a feature.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
A simple control, or PocketPC (if you can afford it) should suffice. Check out some Linux projects that feature Tivo and Media system like projects. If you can't get control configs to work out well, try a VNC client with a PocketPC, a bit expensive, but great control.
Bluetooth is not required for a home theatre keyboard. I used a Keytronic wireless IR keyboard with built in glidepoint trackpad for some time. I ended up replacing it with a smaller keyboard (no numeric keypad, integrated arrows at the bottom right) with a built on joystick-style mouse controller. They were both PS/2 and had IR receivers that went at the front of the room.
There are a few RF solutions, but none that have all of the features that *I* would like, and Infared works well enough if the receiver is placed well that there's no need for much more than that.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
It performed reasonably well while I used it, but it's not been in use for a year or two now...simply because I spend all my PC time on my laptop instead of through the PC connected to the TV.
It was great for Midtown Madness on my 42" screen though!
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
My goal with my HTPC was to integrate it into my home theater as much as possible. That means using all of the components from a basic infrared remote.
My MyHD HDTV PCI receiver card came with an IR receiver, so that was not a problem. There are many remote control options for the various DVD player packages.
An app like Girder can combine many applications and PC control functions for IR control.
For the things that I cannot do via remote, VNC from my laptop lets me have full control. Or, a basic wireless keyboard/mouse are handy in rare occasions.
I use the "FreeBoard model No. GL3001" (Also marked as an "iFree")
It's a USB attached unit that uses RF wireless (900Mhz I think). Has built in Trackball and mappable mutli-function buttons. I can control my HTPC from two rooms over if necessary. And runs on standard AAA batteries.
I bought it a year or so ago from Directron.com
Well, Infinium Labs had one demoed at E3 for their console. I'm not sure if it works on a regular PC.
There's the which is nice (RF versus Infrared is always better). It has a built in thumbilina (thumb mouse).
Beyond that...Remote desktop via a Tablet PC works...
Just add {In Space!} to anything.
http://www.directron.com/rf250.html http://www.directron.com/rf25key.html These both use RF... not necessarily bluetooth but they would do the job.
If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
Good luck mate, and make a few bucks. =)
#SickNotWeak
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Bluetooth. But I haven't seen anything outside of Logitech's diNovo that uses Bluetooth.
Is IR really not good enough?
You can do it on X window, too. (rdesktop)
"...a generation of kids has grown up thinking Trance is the shittiest music since country and western." - Paul van Dyk
How secure are bluetooth keyboards? Is it possible to somehow sniff and read the connection? I suspect it's dumb question but the idea of a RF keyboard makes me little nervous. I guess I'm too old school.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
If you can compromise on Bluetooth, I'd recommend the keyboard/touchpad combo from Wireless Computing. These are designed for long-range wireless, like conference rooms and auditoriums (100'), but do very well in closer situations also.
If this is being controlled with Windows, there's the Accessiblity setting "MouseKeys" that lets you control the cursor with the num-pad. I assume Linux must have something similar.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Here is a recent summary of keyboard-and-mouse-in-one units for HTPCs. I can summarize it for you in a few sentences, though: None of the Bluetooth keyboards are suitable for home theater use (too big or no integrated trackball). The few otherwise usable HTPC keyboards use either IR or a proprietary RF scheme, both of which have either range or line-of-sight limitations
The scenario:
A small dark room in the lower level of a house (read: "parent's basement").
An lcd screen on the wall hooked up to a Slackware box.
A replica Captain's Chair from the USS Enterprise (for obvious reasons only a single chair is needed).
The computer is voice activated and responds to the name, "Sulu".
Act 1:
Me: "Mr. Sulu, set course for http://www.slashdot.org."
Computer: "Aye, captain".
Me: "Engage!"
I'm seriously drooling just thinking about it. That, my friends, would truly be living.
"Warp speed!," my fellow slashdotter!
If you are using the HTPC to play DVD's and media files like many people, PowerDVD makes a nice little remote that you can use to run all the necessary player functions.
What I do is put that remote up in the viewing area, and a real keyboard/mouse/LCD panel in the back of the room attached to the HTPC. The monitor is actually slaved to my Mitsubishi X400 projector, which gets the primary XGA feed from the Radeon card.
This lets me play "maximum projectionist" from the back of the room when needed (I like to make trailer reels from Apple.com for example), but watch media from the couch with just a remote like the good old days.
It doesn't have Bluetooth (it uses IR instead), but this is the keyboard I use with my HTPC (MythTV):
Parex Wireless Multimedia Keyboard w/ Intellipoint Mouse
According to the website, they're sold out, but it might be available somewhere else. It works great (across the room for me, although my living room isn't that large), and it doesn't conflict with the Hauppauge IR receiver either (though it definitely will conflict with an irman, and maybe others, so be forewarned). It doesn't require direct line of sight, it will work on up to a 70 degree angle (if I remember the manufacturer's specs correctly). And, it was only $20 at the time.
Otherwise, I've heard that the Gyration products are great, but again, they're not Bluetooth, they're RF.
-- Joe
Why? My HT PC uses a NiceTracker ACK-573 keyboard. It's an infrared PS/2 keyboard. Works just fine (with one exception I'll get to momentarily), and has the added bonus that I can program my Universal Remote from it, and use the remote for most functions that don't require me to actually be entering text. Since I run MythTV, I rarely need to enter text, and it saves me having to doink with LIRC.
The one exception to working fine is that the thing eats batteries, even when it's not in use. The solution was pretty simple: run to Radio Shack, get a pushbutton switch, drill a hole in the case and install the switch on the battery terminal. Voila, on-off capability that saves the battery.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
All that we use to control our HTPC is a Logitech MX 700 wireless mouse. With the HTPC app that we use, SageTV, everything is accessible from a mouse-driven interface. We don't use that computer for email or games requiring a keyboard. My only complaint about the mouse is that its range is only about 10 feet.
The only thing that we can't do with the mouse is turn on the TV and the stereo. I am planning on programming one of the extra buttons on the mouse to do this. I'm planning on using it to launch a macro via the software program Girder that will send all of the appropriate IR commands out of the USB-UIRT IR blaster/receiver to turn on all the devices and switch their inputs accordingly. That should solve the only problem we have, which is explaining to babysitters how to use the TV.
Another benefit for me is that the PC hooked to the HT system is my main PC, so the keyboard moves easily between the desk and the couch; they trackball and a wireless mouse are both hooked up via USB and I just grab whatever one I want.
What are you doing that can't just as easily be accomplished with an XBox and wireless controller? It would seem to me that trying to use a computer is the fallacy of your approach. Having built two computer systems to attach to my projector and having significant frustration with both of them, I wholeheartedly recommend an XBox for what you are attempting to accomplish.
Just give up on the mouse/touchpad idea and go with an integrated trackball. I just love trackballs. After destroying my right shoulder in a work injury, I can no longer use a mouse - causes my shoulder to swell and ache like a mofo. I fell in love with trackballs.
a google search for:
keyboard "integrated trackball" bluetooth
returned about a bazillion hits.
I also use Girder and an ATI Remote Wonder for my HTPC setup. The ATI remote came bundled with a Radeon 7500 All In Wonder and they work flawlessly together. The MyHTPC software also works wonders. There is an ATI Remote Wonder plugin available for MyHTPC too.
As for the keyboard and mouse, I use a Logitech cordless mouse and keyboard which does the job nicely. I keep the mouse on the coffee table and the keyboard in one of the drawers. The only tricky part is keeping the RF receiver on the computer far enough away from the components in your home theater as the cord on the unit is not very long.
I also have a 4 port USB hub running to a spot under the couch that allows me to quickly connect or disconnect things like USB Thumb Drives or USB Gamepads. I use the gamepads for many of the games on the system like GTA Vice City and MAME. Specifically I like the Gravis Gamepad Pro (BB $15, Nice mapping software), the Nyko AirFlo PC (BB $20, Dual Analog sticks, Air Flow technology), and if you can find it the GF USB Control Pad (BB $10, Dual Analog sticks). All of the gamepads work well with Girder and the games I use them for. Sometimes it is nice to have 3 or 4 different gamepads for N64 Emulators because it is easier to know which gamepad you are configuring. Before I had 4 Gravis Gamepad Pro's which was a pain because I had to label them 1 - 4 but windows would not allow me to change their names.
Of course VNC is a must but aside from that if you get your bindings tight in girder you can do almost anything with MyHTPC and a good remote.
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
Howdy! I do reviews for Design Technica and had a similar issue when setting up my htpc. I settled on two separate methods.
For most regular use, i have a Logitech DiNovo keyboard and mouse (I know, I read your post, not in the air mouse) and it ahs BY FAR the best range of any wireless option I tried (Logitech MX, Logitech regular, MS wireless, MS BT, Gyration, and a couple other no namers). On top of it, I don't need to put it away, sicne it practically looks like a work of art instead of a dorky keyboard. Also, the programmable keypad makes for a slightly bulky but funky remote.
For more HT based stuff, I use a Remote Wonder that came wiht my Radeon 9800 AIW Pro. Good range and all, but mousing with it is horribly impractical for anything more than a quick click every few minutes.
You can try the Gyration mouse, which I thought gave good distance (but the keyboards absolutely suck - bad enough that I returned it one week later and ate the restocking fee), but I found it semi awkward and completely useless for games.
I have this all setup about 12 ft from the TV. I was worried about interference (Wifi AP, cordless phones, 2 wireless console controllers, 2 wireless PC controllers in a multiunit building), but so far, everything is great.
I have one of these and am very happy with it. I don't use the mouse much but it works fine. Its small enough to sit reasonably unobtrusively in my living room (with the IR repeated via Xantech IR repeaters down to where the equipment is racked).
Only issue I've had is it sends lengthy IR codes when you use the mouse that were crashing an IRTrans infrared decoder/receiver -- the guy that makes them has a fix in the works though.
I saw these at Comdex a couple of years ago (from a taiwanese company), then recently set up a MythTV box and found a guy in the UK selling them on ebay. I looked a bit in the US but lost patience trying to find a distributor and ended up ordering from the UK guy for about $80 including shipping.
i use a wireless microsoft natural keyboard and an ati all in wonder remote.
the ati is as good of a mouse as i need, and i rarely have to use the keyboard but when i do, it is handy.
i dont see how bluetooth is needed, any wireless kb should work as long as it is comfy for you to use.
another option for the mouse is a gyration (i think that is how it is spelled). they are pretty slick, let you wave your hand through the air to move the mouse. i would get the ati remote as well though, then you have a nice remote to control the playback functionality and a basic mouse, and the gyration for any advanced stuff you want to do.
Nintendo Powerglove. Yes, it does work under linux (link)
...is anyone surprised?
Wow, you aren't me. Go die.
-Meeper
I've used one for a couple years now. I found it open box at CompUSA one day and tried it out. I promptly replaced my Logitech setup with it. It is a single unit with a pointing stick in the top right corner and, the best part for me, is it's RF instead of IR. I know a lot of people here say IR is fine, but I NEVER have line of sight to my HTPC from my couch because it is around the corner from me. This keyboard has been the best $20 I've ever spent on a PC. You can find them on the web at multiple places for under $40 new. Here's a link to the mfg site. IBM Keyboards
I am not convinced that adding a full size or even a compact keyboard to a home theater system is a great idea
Depending on your funds, it may be much smarter to investigate the use of a wireless pocket PC or similar device used in conjunction with automation software like girder to control your system. The upshot of this is that you can display information about the current media elements on the your control device. A truly smart remote control and with 802.11 the range would exceed your typical TV to sofa distance as well.
Jon - TheSpork
Most manuals for devices using NiMH and Lithium Ion say the batteries last longer if you keep them charged up (topped off). Otherwise, the deep charge/discharge cycles put a lot of wear on the batteries.
Just for clarity's sake, the "best" way to keep NiMH batteries alive is to keep using them. Charge them up, let them sit, use them a bit, then re-charge after a month or so. If you leave a NiMH battery totally drained, you will hurt the battery... and NiMH batteries drain themselves over time. However, if you leave it charging, you will kill the battery. There is just no good fire and forget storage solution. If you go on an extended vacation, consider giving your lighting equipment to a friend to babysit.
Don't expect any rechargable battery system to last for more than a year or two. Very few stand up to regular use. Think about replacement battery availability carefully when buying new equipment.
The ______ Agenda
Surprised that something from the early 80's works on Linux? Yes. I thought they only had drivers for 1970's hardware. ;)
I use one of these . The intellect AirKey is a small form-factor keyboard with built-in mouse that functions over infra-red. Infra-red really is a fine compromise, because I need to be in IR range to use the TV remote anyway!
The mouse-pad thingy is quite neat, it's small and can be driven from your sofa. It's a bit tricky to get used to at first, but it's really worth it once you get used to it.
My only advice is don't install the system with it, use a proper keyboard and mouse. This thing is fine as a PC remote control, but you probably don't want to set one up with it!
If the above still hasn't sold you, it's a very cheap option and most importantly it's black!
perl -e 'print "Just another Perl newbie\n";'
Pros: It's SO DAMN COOL
Cons: the 900mhz phone screws up my wireless. I solved this by getting rid of my land line and going all cellular,
I also use PalmVNC at work to manage a large variety of machine, although only mac, windows and RH9 (damn I'm gonna miss you RH9). It's quite convenient to haev my palm with me and be able to read logs while in the bathroom. Ok, I know that's a bad pun, but I really DO read the log files from my servers on PalmVNC when I'm in the crapper. And it's not as bad as going to the bathroom to play solitaire with your Palm.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
My $0.02 is to buy the Logitech DiNovo. I understand the desire for an integrated Mouse, but I have yet to find one that works well. I run a demo environment similar to what it sounds like you are building, and have have tried A BUNCH of wireless keyboards/mouses. I have had nothing but problems until I purchased the DiNovo. All of the IR and all the other RF solutions would drop keys on the keyboard, or more annoyingly, the mouse would be uncontrollable. I have a whole drawer of wireless KB/Mice that were crap! Another note, if you have compact florescent lights in the room (kind of look like the florescent tubes all wound up to look kind of light an incandescent bulb) these can really wreak havoc on any IR solutions. Good luck.
I use the Logitech cordless keyboard (it seems to have the smallest footprint), and a standard Microsoft optical cordless mouse. The optical cordless mouse works great on the arm of the couch.
And, one you get to know your way around the software you're using, you usually don't need the mouse anyway.
http://www.superpen.com/
Ruwido has brilliantly designed keyboards, remotes and mice for the wireless iving-room use
Their "Amadeus" RC is reported (by them) to have 70.000 RC's preprogrammed
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