Slashdot Mirror
Cell Phone Ringtones Give Music Industry Another Headache
Alien54 writes "Xingtone's desktop software allows you to create mobile phone ringtones using digital audio files on your computer. As seen here, The software evokes the same ``oh wow, oh no'' reaction from the labels that greeted the original Napster. The fear is that people will make 30 second long ringtones out of popular songs, thus compounding the file-sharing problem while robbing the music industry of a new source of revenue. Many users find the technology quite cool. IANAL, but current copyright guidelines seem to permit fair use of "Up to 10% of a body of sound recording, but no more than 30 seconds". All of which should make for an interesting legal debate. I can hear the gnashing of teeth already."
Very few pop songs last 300 seconds. The monopoly on long ring tones is maintained.
I predict the phenonmenon of making ringtones out of the latest teen pop will fade quickly as more and more annoying idiots are beaten to death with their own phones. It's happened in isolated incidents before but now we'll have critical mass.
-jpeg
Yeah, because "Classical Music Butchered Beyond Hope" isn't obnoxious enough. I work at a college. I can't wait for every shitty pop song to be blaring out of some asshat's saggy A&F jeans during class when his roommate's older brother calls to say he got the beer.
Fucking christ. You know the only people that use this are going to be people infatuated with dreadful pop music. It's the same phenomenon as loud car stereos -- I don't think I've ever pulled up to someone with a thumping car at a traffic light and thought, "Oh, good, I really like this song."
--saint
The only headache I forsee is having to listen to everyone's favourite song every time a phone rings.
But how is taking a snippet of a song and putting it on my phone any worse than taking an entire song and putting it on my computer? Obviously the record companies want people to pay for ringtone-specific clips, but I see nothing wrong with this software.
Who doesn't like free music?
*MUST* the RIAA get paid for *EVERY* time someone does anything *REMOTELY* connected to the shit music their labels pump out? I mean, DAMN. Can't they just let it go!?
*sigh*
- GNU/Anonymous Coward
"That oxygen is ours. We paid for it. It's used to create the high quality music you find at your local vendor. If we find anyone using or sharing that oxygen we'll have no choice but to seek reparations in court. We don't like to be heavy handed, we're just protecting our clients."
I'm waiting for them to hit this stage...then maybe they'll finally run out of things to bitch about..
Some people already own the music, or can buy the actual song for the same price. Why pay twice?
The fear is that people will make ringtones out of pirated songs, thus compounding the file-sharing problem while robbing the music industry of a new source of revenue.
That's not the real fear. The real fear is that people will make ringtones out of the CDs they already have. That process is nothing more than format shifting, trimming, and then playback when a particular event happens to the phone. Uhm... there's no laws against that process.
The record industry is a bit worried because this had appeared to be a new business model for them... but if the software to make a good enough ringtone is easy enough for the average consumer to do on their own, then consumers don't need to pay to re-buy a track they already have if they want it as a ringtone.
Sorry, this business model was dead on arrival. Please try again.
Ugh, stupid cell phones. While this is a neat idea, I keep mine on vibrate, just because I know how annoying a music ringtone is when its someone elses.
It seems that the current actions of the record industry are analagous to the papal authority during the reign of Pius IX. In both cases, science and technology began to encroach upon the ideas, or intellectual property, of the parties mentioned. Instead of trying to move with the flow of progress, they lashed back with extremist policy (The Syllabus of Errors, lawsuits). For Pius IX, this accelerated the demise of his authority. It should be interesting to see how these policies work out for the record industry.
_____
Thank you.
I don't know if they last 30 seconds, but ring tones of popular songs already exist, at least in Norway/Europe. It has existed for a quite some time, at least 5 years if not more.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
That way Xingtone will be mad about people ripping off their idea to rip off the music industry.
I worked for a cell phone company and they had a way to make sure you could not upload midi or wav files to your phone by hiding the file extension (not the MIME type) the phone will accept. Thus, to upload a midi file, you had to name the file something other than .mid for the phone to accept it. Of course, all is needed is a leak and everyone can do it...
...you make your OWN ringtones. Use a midi-notation software, then use a site like 3gupload to put them onto your phone. Much cheaper than buying them (the site has a whole bunch of ringtones too), and if you're like me, you can put strange ringtones that you'll never find elsewhere.
Buying ringtones through cell phone providers is a joke. You pay $2.50 for a ringtone that will expire in 2 months. Atleast that is how Sprint is. You were able to create ringtones before just it wasn't as easy as a couple clicks. You would need to take the song in winamp or a sound recorder and trim it to 30 seconds and save it in a low quality format. Then you have to convert it using QUALCOMM PureVoice Converter. Most people that I know get "free" ringtones already from www.3gupload.com.
http://seanism.com/
Far from worrying here in the UK music ring tones are popular in the UK. People are willing to pay 1.50 (or more) for a ring tone, yet are not willing to pay that much for a single this has a few analysts baffled. It's probably all convenience, anyone can copy a single from the radio, from a friends CD, download it from the net etc.. but getting ringtones on a mobile phone is a bit more complex for the average person. As a result people are willing to pay for them.
It's not uncommon now to see adverts on peak time TV for ring tone services where you text a number with the name of a song, and you'll receive that ring tone.
A few people have made millions of pounds from these services. There not hush-hush services either, a few of these people have even been the subjects of BBC Documentaries.
Channel 4 even allow you to download ring tones from their site - http://www.channel4.com/mobile/
With Cellphones Europe seems to be ahead of the the game compaired the US. Japan on the other hand are ahead of Europe with 3G phones!
Come on - the RIAA can't make electronic distribution of music profitable but cellphone companies can? ...and by virtue of that, the particular mathematical transformation that re-encodes the sequences of acoustic impulses necessary to modulate the cellphone speaker to produce a familiar noise must be challenged in court? It's okay to use some speakers but not others?
These companies have a horrible time keeping their business models up to date... and inter-industrial consistency in argument seems to be failing.
?/o
...kind of secretly hope that the record companies win this one, just so I don't have to listen to the ringtones :) Most of the 'music' ones (especially using MIDI) are just horrible, and once people start making them more frequently on their own, expect the quality to get even worse, just like good ol' mp3s.
- c -
The music industry does't seem to have a problem with every rap "artist" sampling the heck out of other peoples music. I don't see the difference when I sample it. Call my cell phone "ART" --Colin
This week on Frontline, arguably the best show on television, is titled, "The way the music died." It looks fascinating and, perhaps, even balanced. I do hope the bottom line is, however, that the music industry is a dated industry that refuses (due to some dumb executives) to adapt.
-Sean
but you're gonna get *so sued* when Apple patents the name for its oh-so-cute white vibrator. .*)
iAnal, that is
New concept: ban all ring tones; all that is needed is vibrate mode. It would solve so many problems...
Could the labels claim that Xington has reverse engineered or cracked the process for uploading ring tones?
I personally hate ringtones, even in the office some nut has beethoven beeping and booping... what's wrong with vibrate?
The submitter claims IANAL, but current copyright guidelines seem to permit fair use of "Up to 10% of a body of sound recording, but no more than 30 seconds".
The submitter is missing the context of the part of the document he referenced. The 10%/30 seconds guideline is meant to clarify what portions of referenced works means in the top of the document. There is no fair use when the only purpose is your own enjoyment.
Whether owning the CD gives you the right to use this is a seperate question, but there the 10%/30 seconds rule doesn't apply.
No they cant let it go.. they DO want every time, they DO want pay per listen..
Its their business model.. ( or at least what model they want.. )
Ya, they suck.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Since when? Fair use applies to all people.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
there's this handy site I made,which will take any MIDI file, put it on a WAP server, and let you use it as a polyphonic ringtone, for free.
So let me get this straight:
1. Fair use is 10% of a song or 30 seconds, whatever comes first, right?
2. Making ring tones out of popular songs falls under fair use.
What am I missing? Ah yes, I know!
3. Someone with a large lobbying department is not making a profit.
Don't worry. If fair-use prevents the making of a large profit, fair-use will be weakened.
A little over two centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson considered copyrights as a sort of necessary evil to promote the creation of works that would (eventually) be in the public domain.
Today, copyrights exit for only three things: profit, profit, profit. The company that benefited from the vast amount of ideas that had passed into the public domain (Disney) was the company that promoted the idea of "forever" copyrights.
Sure, people might already own the music, but that's not what they're paying for. They're paying for the music to be instantly transferred to their phone in a usable format.
People that want to save money have already got the option of using the 'record' function on their phones to pick up a clip of the song and then set it as a ringtone. Ringtone downloads aren't aimed at those people. They're aimed at kids who want to quickly change their ringtone as a fashion item, possibly while at school or out with friends. If you have to go home to your computer, it's just not as cool anymore.
--This is a self-referential sig--
Once I finally got my hands on a Bluetooth enabled laptop a few months ago, I've been able to send ringtones to my T610 without any problems whatsoever. The best part is that I can use practically any MIDI I find online, which means I don't have to settle for the tripe that is otherwise "offered" by my cell phone provider.
Anyways, I've found that video game MIDIs, particularly SNES, make the best ringtones. The instruments carry over well to a ring, there are hundreds and thousands of available songs you can get online, and they're just all out fun.
So, I don't really see why a community like slashdot would really care that they can't put the latest Outkast or 50 Cent ring on their phone. There are much better rings out there. Just be courteous and turn those goddamn things off before entering a movie theatre or something, cause I can tell you right fucking now I don't want to hear Kefka's theme from FF6 blasting out of your phone right as a J. Lo-portrayed Samus Aran is putting the hurt down on some aliens in the next big John Woo movie.
Not that our phones are ringing anyway...
--
Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
If you have a new Nokia phone (IE, new model, not just new purchase), you just upload the ringtones (in MIDI, AMR or MP3 format) by IR or Bluetooth.
Considering the vast amount of MIDI, AMR or MP3 format songs out there, and for that matter the ease of creating one in the first place, I don't see why this is such big news. Unless, of course, this is a way to create monophonic ring tunes out of MP3s, which is pretty darn stupid IMHO.
I really don't see how this is a problem. Its basiclly just free advertising. Someone has a clip of a song on their cell phone, someone else hears it and likes the tune. Said person then asks person what the song is. After which he hopefully (in the music industries eyes) either buys the CD or legally downloads the single.
The downloadable ringtone market is expected to double to $4 billion by 2008. Just because Slashdotters don't think ringtones are cool won't stop millions of pre-teen mushbrains from blowing their allowances on ringtones, and you can be damn sure the RIAA knows it.
I'm just going to add a small speaker to my personal stereo player and have it play short pieces of music while I watch everyone reach for their phone to see if it's ringing.
Just follow these simple steps
1. slice your songs into 10 equally sized chunks (10% each)
2. name them original_song_title.mp3.X where X = (0-9 corresponding to the chunk that it is).
3. Have each smaller file shared on P2P network.
4. Laugh at the RIAA
BTW, my own ringtone is a recording of an old-fashioned telephone bell... I don't inflict reedy-sounding pop music on innocent bystanders.
--Larry
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence
Since ringtones have become popular I've noticed that fewer people choose the vibrate option. For those of you with ringtones get a clue, your ringtones are NOT cool! Everytime I hear one I just roll my eyes. Everyone thinks that they have the one tone that is soooo cooool that nobody will mind listening to it. People fail to realize that others don't want to be interrupted by random snips of ANY music played on a crappy speaker.
Perhaps if the RIAA managed to get some draconian measures enforced to charge you a royalty fee everytime your dumbass ringtone went off you'd switch back to vibrate. I hate the RIAA, but honestly, I hate ringtones more.
plurvert
...part of me hopes the RIAA can ban this. I am so @#$% sick of having to listen to long, annoying song clip ringtones erupting out of coworkers cubes at maximum volume, especially when they aren't there and left their cellphone on their desk, and it just plays over and over and over...
1) Put phone in vibrate mode.
2) Put phone in your pocket.
3) Stop being an annoying ass with your dumass ringtones.
nuff said!
Right now ringtones for the song itself are running nearly 2.50 per tone. Now if I can buy the same song off napster for .99c then what am I paying for. Most of those tones are of the parts of the song I dont want for the ringer either way. This gives me choice. Something the RIAA cant stand anyone to have.
I'm not suggesting that makes an ounce of sense, but it's certainly not chump change here.
It's very easy to turn sample files into ringtones for free. For Sprint PCS users, the Xingtone software just creates a GCD file (more info) and hosts is on a website for your phone to download. It converts the WAV file to Qualcomm PureVoice (.QCP) format (which you can do using Qualcomm's free converter for Windows and Linux). There's more info here.
Building Better Software
The real fear is that people will make ringtones out of the CDs they already have. That process is nothing more than format shifting, trimming, and then playback when a particular event happens to the phone. Uhm... there's no laws against that process.
If your phone plays the exact cut, you may be right. But if your phone plays a bunch of beeps that are the tune, that is a "derived work". And we're back to the issue of how much is "fair use".
IANAL, but current copyright guidelines seem to permit fair use of "Up to 10% of a body of sound recording, but no more than 30 seconds".
The linked web page says that the North Carolina Department of Public Education believes that is the case IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL SETTING. For instance: As part of a class project in K-12 education.
That does not necessarily mean the same guidelines are applicable when you're doing it to replace purchasing a ringtone for your telephone from the copyright holder. The limits of fair use in that situation may be narrower.
Remember that one of the issues to be weighed in determining whether an act is "fair use" is how much it impacts the potential income of the copyright holder. We have evidence from the existing market that people are willing to pay over a buck for a ringtone. Things get even more interesting if somebody is making a profit by selling the tool, or (worse yet) selling the ringtones themselves.
IANAL either. I would love it if a lawyer or paralegal among our readership could post a pointer to an authoritative guideline or (better yet) a precedent on the boundaries of fair use OUTSIDE the educational context.
The fear [of the RIAA] is that people will make ringtones out of pirated songs, thus compounding the file-sharing problem while robbing the music industry of a new source of revenue.
IMHO that's correct. "Whack-a-mole" enforcement, no doubt preceeded by a strike against the toolmaker based on the claim that the tool is a piracy aid.
So for the reasons above we should be prepared for the courts to agree with the RIAA when the inevitable suit is filed.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
... has ruled that RIAA does have the right to install microphones and automated tune-recognition systems on sidewalks, hiking trails and hallways througohout the US to 'identify and prosecute lawbreakers' who violate their copyrights by whistling, humming or singing copyrighted songs without permission.
In its ruling, the Court agreed with the precedent cited by RIAA, their successful case against the Girl Scouts and Campfire Girls for royalties accrued as a result of girls singing 'Kumbaya', 'Happy Birthday' and other popular songs around the campfire.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
These people are insane... why aren't they simply ignored? Oh, right... they bribe our politicians, and sometimes even write the actual laws they want passed -- God bless Word(TM) meta-data.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Xingtone is awesome.
.wav or mp3 ready.
Here's how to upload your OWN TONES without paying for XINGTONE:
1. start XINGTONE.
2. have your pre-trimmed
3. navigate to the xingtone app directory
4. overwrite a demo tone with your new sound (keep the name the same).
5. upload.
Congratulations. You are t3h winnar!
Now you can finally have the guitar intro to "Where is my mind" by the Pixies, instead of "In Da Club" by 50-Cent. Treknerds can make their phone sound like a tricorder, or get beamed up everytime their phone rings.. whoopee!
Why a freehack? -- The audio quality is crappier than 8-bit audio, you may also have normalization problems (too loud/soft). Their demo is just 3 canned sounds that are decompressed onto your hardrive when the app is started, and removed upon app-shutdown. The app is useful, but not worth $15. Not to mention the fact that many people have to pay additional $$ to their mobile service provider per byte/kb of data transferred...
scam.
Remember: We only use recordable devices because of human playback limitations.
My current phone allows me to use any mp3 as a ringtone, no conversion necessary. As far as I can tell this is becoming more and more common on new phones. With more and more phones and computers supporting bluetooth it's also getting easier to transfer them onto the phone. Eventually it's going to become convienient enough that people won't be willing to pay to be sent ringtones when they could just use music they already own.
Posted by michael on Monday May 23, @01:25PM
from the we-miss-the-dmca dept.
The RIAA announced today that they have secured the exclusive right to the key of G-flat.
Previously, the key of G-flat was a popular key among independant Open Music authors, as the RIAA had neglected to secure rights to it during the Commercial Copyright Reforms of 2016.
RIAA spokesman Darl Hollingsworth explained, "After CCR/2016, the RIAA secured the rights to all keys in which music can be composed. Traditional music theory, dating back to the 15th century, stipulates that there is no such key signature as G-flat major. Unfortunately, Open Music pirates have discovered a way to represent the key of G-flat; however, G-flat major is simply an isomorph of F-sharp. The court rightly recognized this equivalence and the blatent theft of musical keys by Open Music pirates everywhere. In accordance with the law, the Supreme Court of the United States of America has assigned us the world-wide copyright to these songs."
While timing is expected to vary from state to state, all residents of the USA will have their CRMIs (Cranial Rights Management Implants) updated by the end of 2023. The levy for mentally accessing a song written in G-flat will begin at twice the regular rate, to make up for nearly a decade of Note Piracy. The levy will be scaled back to the regular rate of $19.84 per thought once the new CRMI software has been uploaded for two years. Residents of the so-called "Oil States" of Iraq and Saudi America will continue to receive the Western Culture subsidy.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
There is a sucker born every minute.
sulli
RTFJ.
Suppose Apple and Motorola team up to produce a cell phone iPod. It'd be able to play securely and legally purchased music (from iTunes, for example, or ripped from legally purchased CDs) at any time, including when someone calls you. You wouldn't have had to pay any extra money for it, either.
I don't see how this is any different than that, and cell phone tech is already at the point where you could download an mp3 to normal cell phones and use it as your ring tone anyway. (Why this hasn't happened yet is anybody's guess, but I would not be in the least surprised to see it in the next round of cell phones.)
When your mobile phone rings, it's often in a "place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered". So if your phone ever rings in a public place, then under U.S. copyright law's definition of "publicly" (17 USC 101), causing your phone to play a copyrighted work whenever a call comes in amounts to performing the work publicly. Copyright law also gives the owner of copyright in a musical work a monopoly on authorizing such public performances (17 USC 106) subject to limitations listed later in the title.
One advantage of MIDI ringtones is that they don't involve the RIAA. You may need BMI/ASCAP clearance, but you're not reproducing a recording, you're generating a performance. That's far cheaper and there's a compulsory license.
I agree, there's so many people pissing and moaning about ringtones... Is this a site for geeks or grumpy old men? "Turn that music down!!! You damn kids and your pop tunes are making my ears bleed!"
If you want to be a stick in the mud and people's choice of ringtones really bothers you, don't go out in public. There's always a chance in public you'll hear or see something you find offensive. Two guys might be holding hands, someone might say "fuck", you may hear a 30-second midi rendition of a pop song's chorus. The shock, the horror.
I choose to use ringtones because it's entertaining TO ME and it's not the same old "beep beep beep". If that really bothers you that much, don't worry - you're not someone I'd want to associate with anyway.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
If you do only take 10% of the song, then perhaps you should only pay 10% of the cost of a single?
Anyway, so much of pop music samples short parts, robs bits of older tracks or is just a plain remix, then who's actually losing out?
Has anyone patented the business model of the RIAA (sue teenagers into submission claiming theft of IP, but don't actually pay all the artists what they are owed)? 'Cos it'd be a very valuable patent - more so than Amazon's half-click one!
The fear is that people will make 30 second long ringtones out of popular songs.
I fear that too...
I read the internet for the articles.
If the Industry is actually serious about this... then we need to treat them the way we treat other people that act insane and admit them to the psych ward for evaluation. If they continue on this path, the next thing they will want is royalities from you for humming the song or singing along during a concert.
If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
Yeah... how is moving a song from your computer to your iPod any different from moving a song to your phone?
My other car is first.
Surely the point is that now we can compose our own music and download that, instead of the current pop and classical tunes which are advertised for download in every newspaper and magazine on premium rate numbers and have been for years.
But, as I pointed out in the ORIGINAL message, since ringtones have come into widespread use and that because they "entertain you," you leave your phone on ring instead of vibrate in all sorts of innappropriate places. You don't switch it back to vibrate when you walk into the theatre, classroom, or frankly, even the coffee shop.
I never said anything about leaving my phone's ringer on in places where it's inappropriate.
I seriously doubt anything has changed in terms of people's laziness (relating to switching into vibrate mode or switching the phone off completely) that directly correlates with using a custom ringtone vs a default ringer. There's just more people that own cell phones nowadays and most newer phones support custom ring tones. If custom ringtones disappeared overnight, people would still leave their phones in the loudest ring mode, not because they want the world to hear their phone, but because they're simply too lazy to remember to turn the ringer off.
Now if you really somehow feel that a default ringtone is less annoying than a few notes from a pop song, I really hope for your sake you learn to take life less seriously.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.