Slashdot Mirror
Cassini Alters Path. Phoebe Now In Sight!
Anonymous Explorer writes "This week the Cassini-Huygens
Spacecraft finally entered
the Saturn system and made its first
main-engine burn in five years in preparation of for the Phoebe flyby. This long
journey
has been one filled with much promise and peril. Launched in 1997,
Cassini is expected to have a rendezvous with
the moon Phoebe
on June 11. For those of us who are lazy, that's just a tad under two
weeks away. After the Phoebe flyby, it's on to the ringed planet, with an
anticipated July 1
ground orbit insertion. The ESA's
Huygens probe will descend into the atmosphere of Titan a few months
after Cassini is inserted into orbit. This mission
promises to be
one that brings a very psychedelic and beautiful area of our solar
system into clearer focus. This multinational
mission is one the
most ambitious scientific explorations yet undertaken and promises some
truly otherworldly images in the near future. With 31 moons/natural
satellites thus far discovered orbiting Saturn, there should be a lot
to keep us occupied. Anyone else excited about the journey
to a ringed world? Lets all enjoy this ride. It promises to
be a unique one as much as for the scenery as for the science. Informal
discussion regarding the Cassini-Huygens mission can be found at
#cassini on irc.freenode.net."
on the grounds that if it somehow falls back to earth, it will spread nuclear disaster o'er the surface of the world.
to look for the ring of Uranus!!!!!! :)
a very psychedelic and beautiful area of our solar system into clearer focus
::puff:: You don't need no stinkin' satellite.. ::puff:: in order to see psychedelic spaaace, maaaan! ::puff::
Heeeey man..
And in a related news item, the aunt of Britney Spears' new man has given the couple her blessing, insisting he was single when the pop superstar fell for him.
We all know NASA is going to find little green, maybe pink in Saturn's case, men floating around somewhere and just photoshop them out of the pictures.
to keep her head down 'round about the 11th.
She gets a little freaked when things flyby without warning (although I've rather been looking forward to it myself).
I'm still trying to figure out though, why I, as the more massive of the pair, appear without question to be the captured object.
KFG
For shame, for shame.
I predict they'll get some footage like this.
while we are talking about Cassini, let us remember the protesters who were so opposed to it.
Remember cassini is nasa's deadly space probe. It is nice to see that these groups have other stuff to protest these days. Hope that stuff is not as deadly as cassini...
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
This mission promises to be one that brings a very psychedelic
Guess the mission engineers took the brown acid. Bummer.
bash: rtfm: command not found
that it'll do better then the Beagle/Bagle Probe ;)
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Which is correct?
Map and Images of Titan from Hubble Space Telescope
Nasa Titan Photojournal
Saturnian Satellite Fact Sheet
Phoebe best image so far, from Voyager2 in 1981!
Do you need a website upgrade?
AI funds and supports communist rebels in nepal. I lost my village to them this winter.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
It's gonna be nice to see a photo-intensive orbiting mission to one of the big gas giants. The Galileo orbiter for Jupiter had an antenna problem that greatly reduced the imaging volume.
However, based on Voyager flybys, Saturn's moons are not quite as photogenic as Jupiter's. Titan is covered with a thick feature-poor haze and most of the other moons are too small to have many of the interesting tidally-caused features of the Jupiter moons. But there are still some interesting features on some of the moons.
And, Cassini will drop a probe into Titan's atmosphere that should return some interesting images and data. Titan may have a methane ocean and the Titan probe may possibly land in it and float for a few hours. The ocean may have giant waves because the gravity is so weak compared to Earth, similar to the way that sand-dunes are easier to make on Mars because of the lower gravity there. Things can get taller and weirder under low gravity. It would be the first time liquid could be seen from the surface of another world (aside from the Apollo Tang drippings).
Table-ized A.I.
I more than half expected the channel to be Slashdotted, as happens to all websites when their address is mentioned here. But strangely, there are only about ten people over there right now.
On another note, I am very excited about the upcoming part of this mission. I was finishing high school when they launched this thing, and when they talked about it, it seemed like it would be forever before that thing reached Saturn. Needless to say, it has been a lot less than forever.
I wish the fine engineers at Nasa the best of luck in accomplishing this portion of the mission.
After the Phoebe flyby, it's on to the ringed planet
All the gas giants have rings, not just Saturn. They're not as easy to see, but they have been detected.
Learn something new.
What the fuck is up with the author who posted this slashdot article? I thought that they were proofread first!
IMHO quality images do more to create and maintain public enthusiasm for space exploration than all the statistics in the world about the benefits of the space program; far too many geeks and/or scientists underestimate and underutilize the best of all marketing tools we have for getting funding and support for the space program. I hope they don't forget about the value of a pretty picture.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
Some guy posted this in the last article and I want to add to it.
[start other guy]
What happens to these massive space structures when a 3 inch rock or space junk going at hyperspeed punches through them. If I were building a space station I wouldn't be building windows, I would be thinking submarine with a thick hide. One day those guys in the space station are going to hear this *THONG* *THONG* as a rock enters and then exits the station punching through the walls and they are subsequently sucked up against the hole in the wall and have the flesh torn from their bones.
Same problem applies to getting places real fast, lets just say you can approach the speed of light, and that you can go into a cryogenic sleep or whatever. What happens when you plough through the ever-so-faint tail of a comet that consists of metalic rocks and the like.
Sure, you replace people with robots, and most systems with redundant and backup systems.
But for all those people blowing their load over commercial and civilian/tourist space flight. There isn't much you are going to do, or see. It will be just as viable as commercial and civilian/tourist submarines. Some, yes, but not that many. And not many things that aren't based around science and/or money making commercial ventures.
I wish people would realise that we are hundreds of years away from being a viable space faring race (should we so desire) and that there are some problems at home that we have to think through first.
Global warming - I don't care whether we caused it or if it's a natural cycle.... it's real we have to deal with it.
The carrying capacity (longterm sustainable population to resource ratio) of the earth is being exceeded and we aren't doing squat. There is no rationale to have more people, there is no reason why 500 million people in europe or america is better than 300 million... these numbers are meaningless. We need to halt population growth, big time. Population to resource ratio inequality usually leads to death, either by starvation or by war. Not a good future
Other climate effects we don't understand like currents in the sea that affect the whole global climate, errosion, salinity etc.
We have a million and one problems down here, and floating we monkeys into space doesn't solve ANY of them. I hate this romantic notion that it will be all like star-trek when we forge out into space. It WONT, it will be exactly like it is down here. The only way things are going to change is if they change down here first.
I don't want to troll to badly here. But tons of people are starving, our global political order is on the brink (brought there by a "peace loving" democracy no less), at home in liberal democracies we cover up the fact our education systems suck, our environment is polluted, we don't look after our sick and ill properly and we don't care about the homeless.
We need fewer great minds to be looking into the sky and more great minds to bent their will towards these problems. I'm sorry, but until that time... people looking through telescopes will always be immature little boys who are in a fantasy world and ignoring the problems at hand.
I suppose the same could be said for any technology enthusiast. Think about that. THAT, my freinds, is stuff that matters.
[end other guy]
In response to it was a whole heap of posts which I will defend him from quickly here because I can, and because I want to for the sake of the community and public debate (whatever).
"you're an environmental loonie"
Asides from the fact he was talking about more than that, the environment is a major issue. Its a system like any other, well not like any other because not understanding it could lead to our deaths. So it doesn't matter about tree hugging, it's a matter of survival, or at least quality of life. And he has a point, there is tons of stuff we don't know about planet earth yet. And it is generally agreed in the scientific community that global warming is happening
Al Sharpton (2004 democratic presedential hopeful) led a protest in harlem at NASA's Goddard center.
Cassini is expected to have a rendezvous with the moon Phoebe on June 11. For those of us who are lazy, that's just a tad under two weeks away.
Does this mean that those of us who are not lazy have to wait a few more weeks before we can learn about Phoebe's observations?
Phoebe best image so far, from Voyager2 in 1981
"My God! It's full of pixels!"
Table-ized A.I.
My version of "Mother" by Pink Floyd.
Mother give me a hit from the bong
Mother do you think this high will last very long?
Mother do you think they will try to smoke my bowls?
Oooh-ahhh
Mother should I hide it all?
Mother, Clinton smoked and he's our president
Mother it's outlawed by our government
Mother will they put me in jail to do some time?
Oooh-ahhh
Am I just wasted and high?
Hush now baby baby don't you cry
Mama's gonna make all your hemp dreams come true
Mama's gonna share all of her drugs with you
Mam's gonna keep you flying high as if you had wings
She'll get you high, inhale and feel it's sting
Mam's gonna keep baby TOASTY and STONED
Oooh baked
Oooh baked
Oooh baked
Of course mama's gonna help pack the bowl
Mother do you think the weed's good enough...for me
Mother do you think the weed's dangerous.....to me
Mother will it tear my little brain cells apart?
Oooh-ahhh
Mother can I get it at K-Mart?
Hush now baby baby don't you cry
Mama's gonna weigh all your 60 bags for you
Mama won't let any oregano get through
Mama's gonna light up when you get in
Mama will always find the new shipments come in
Mama's gonna keep the pot seed-free and clean
Oooh baked
Oooh baked
Oooh baked
You'll always be baked with me
Mother surely meant to be so HIGH...
- Criminal Minded -
I think astronomers realize the importance of beauty when trying to get public support. Check out the Hubble Heritage project. The main reason for this project is to take pretty astronomy pictures.
probes orbiting around uranus jokes.
Have $5250 deposited directly into your PayPal account guaranteed.
She was the hottest of the Friends.
It's saturday night. real men are going out and getting laid. or at least drunk. slashdotters are looking through telescopes.
She was my favourite female 'Friend'.
This, as we all know, is the spaceship equivalent of a middle aged man gettin' some for the first time in a long while.
Current death toll from Amnesty International's actions in Nepal: 9000
You want to give us the slightest shred of evidence for that?
I hate unsubstative, emotional, unable to be backed up sigs. Especially stupid ones.
about so-called "obligatory" jokes. If you repeat them over and over, they are no longer funny, and thus aren't jokes. Just mindless filler, waste of mod points, etc..
"I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
Planet Druidia's in sight, sir!
i am a soviet space shuttle
...it was Phoebe Halliwell. Mmmmm... sexy witch... drools...
Whenever you're dealing with radioactive material, you're gambling with the safety of our kids and the health of all the future generations. If you've got any conscience and concern for nature, it should be clear to you that the magnitude of the consequences will always overshadow the probability of an incident.
I don't care how "safe" you can make the damn thing. Nothing technological is 100% safe and anything less than 100% is not good enough for me.
That's why I'll always fight against the use of nuclear power on earth as well as in space.
(Posting AC because I'd probably get bitchslapped for opposing nuclear power on /.)
Seriously, though... You have to admit the opposition managed to put out some scary stuff... I saw it in the hallway at college and wasn't pleased. Got over it though.
I had a sucky sig.
Modding down is not a substitute for evidence.
With Cassini actually passing through a gap in the inner rings during its orbit insertion it's hard to imaging the spectacular images that await us.
I'm sorry, but goatse.cx has made it impossible to utter phrases like that without a collective cringing. The only way you could have made that more mentally disturbing is if this were a mission to Uranus.
Does anyone else think its amazing that the thing actually works after five years of no activity? Seriously, I wouldn't trust my router, cable modem, or toaster (all devices of comparable embedded computing power) to run nonstop for five years. I think it speaks well for the Nasa engineers, and the things they actually do right. Its a shame only their mistakes make the news.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
What the hell was wrong with them? They rolled out of the helicopter (which seemed to have trouble landing anyway) like fat turds and then moved sluggishly towards a staircase. It was like watching a bunch of couchpotatos trying to act professional.
Can't believe how much I'm looking forward to this. It's going to be exciting to learn more about the rings (especially the F-rings perhaps), Saturn itself and then the landing on Titan. It's a good thing there are so many mysteries out there, or the world would be a bit boring.
All those images look pretty bad to me. Which begs the question, are the pictures of Saturn all fake? How do we know it has rings?
I don't see how any details could be seen from pictures of that quality? Or does the fact the satellites are so much smaller have _that_ much effect?
Thanks a lot for posting a link to that image :) It truly is amazing to see Jupiter in such high detail.
"Smelly probe, sme-elly probe..."
(Unless it's the other Phoebe. Meh, she does nothing for me. Wake me up when the probe approaches Piper.)
You must think in Russian.
The information will hopefully (fingers crossed) be abundant, but I wouldn't expect a landing to be successful. We never know, there may be one, but I think it unlikely ;)
Remember cassini is nasa's deadly space probe. It is nice to see that these groups have other stuff to protest these days. Hope that stuff is not as deadly as cassini...
The protests were about a risk, that is, an accident that could have occurred with a certain probability. Everybody pretty much agreed that the risk of an accident was at least fairly low. What people disagreed on was the cost should such an accident acctually occur. The fact that a fairly low-risk event didn't occur does not tell you anything about whether it was prudent to engage in the activity in question.
I'm sorry that such elementary scientific and economic concepts as "risk" and "cost" elude you. Without an understanding of those concepts, you are simply in no position to even participate in such debates.
The Soviet leadership could deploy whatever technologies they liked because the people had no say in the matter. But we live in a democracy and a nation of laws, not a totalitarian state. Before you can do something, either as part of a government project or as a private company, you better convince people that you are not going to cause any harm. How strongly you believe that RTGs are safe is irrelevant, what matters is whether you can convince almost everybody else of that belief.
Because, while RTGs may be reasonably safe (and I think they are), some lunatic may decide to engineer a "curative HIV virus" and just get it wrong, or release some wonderful new chemical into the environment.
For scientists and engineers to force technologies on people that they aren't comfortable with is arrogant and ultimately harms the standing of science and technology in our culture. Yes, that means people like you.
Given that the rings are made up of lumps of rock and ice, how do you avoid them? Will Cassini orbit inside the rings? Outside? Or does it have a bulldozer plough on the front to just barge it's way through?
"first main-engine burrn in five years"
...
[only a] 78 mph change in speed
One thing that comes out again here, but only by implication, from these reports, is the amazing accuracy and precision (still amazing to me anyhow) of the ephemerides (~ solar system maps) used to plan these missions. They knew where Mars would be for MER to within, what, was it about a meter or two? Maybe not that close for Saturn but still good enough not to need main-engine course corrections in five years
Kudos to the chief JPL mapmaker Dr Myles Standish and his crew!
-wb-
Returning to the planet, a nuclear plant is far less likely to cause ANY harm than most power technologies or chemical processes (See Bophal, India). We KNOW that radiation can be dangerous, hence the extreme precations we take.
While many people may be afraid of the potential harm from nuclear power plant accidents, the real problem with them is that nobody has figured out what to do with the waste.
Bhopal may have been a terrible chemical accident, but the chemicals that were released can be destroyed fairly easily if anybody cared to. But with nuclear waste, once you have generated it, you are pretty much stuck with it for millennia.
Incidently, NOTHING is 100% safe... along with fearing (and guarding against) the risk, you should consider the rewards.
Well, and your reward metrics may be very different from other people's. Most people on this planet probably couldn't care less about the scientific data Cassini yields. It isn't even worth their time listening to you (or me) why Cassini is safe. Likewise, given a realistic choice, many people might well prefer using less energy to using nuclear power.
wow, we should build a base on Phoebe(call it UAL), do some time-altering research, and prepare for imp onslaught...
By then, we better have BFG
The /. mods are the same as the /. users, and I'd say they are anything but right-wing...
this is really shitty speculation.
"Whenever you're dealing with radioactive material, you're gambling with the safety of our kids and the health of all the future generations"
Yes, Ban Granite now!
The leading reactive source around is natural. So instead of using what you think are clever sound-bites, why don't you do a little research.
Besides, coal fired plants are doing much more harm to your "children" (like you could ever get laid anyway) than any one nuclear plant could.
Get educated. For once.
Wake me up when we plant a flag on Jupiter.
With 31 moons/natural satellites thus far discovered orbiting Saturn, there should be a lot to keep us occupied. Anyone else excited...
:).
Excited? Pictures of Phoebe? 31 moons?
When do they get pictures of Rachel? That would be some moon! I like that one better than Phoebe, at least to look at, but Phoebe is more entertaining to listen to. You can skip Ross, Joey and Chandler but take a few of Monica mooning while you're at it. That will get me excited
n/t
... about the journey to a ringed Apparantly not, we're having the same old discussion about that hazards it posed for having a nuclear power source, and dumb jokes about a character on a defunt sitcom. Perhaps it would save some bandwith on /. if mods just decided to forgo future Cassini stories. Those who want to see the pictures know where to go.
For those of you interested in Saturn's larger roll in the formation of our solar system, check out this site. Lots to read, but pretty interesting:
http://www.jnocook.net/saturn/
The ring plane extends out to infinity, and so even the Earth passes through it occasionally. The ring plane is considerably tilted with respect to the ecliptic, so it would have been impossible for the Voyagers to not pass through the ring plane. Both went well outside the rings, not, as you imply, through the rings (In Saturn radii: closest approaches V1=3.09 & V2=2.67, outer ring lies at ~2.3) Someone has already pointed out your misinformation about the Cassini orbit. Your links are interesting, but none support your assertions.
"I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
its first main-engine burn in five years>/I>
Cassini comm hardware: We get signal
Cassini CPU: Main Engine Turn On
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Things like this are among the things that move our entire world forward. Maybe not as big as landing on the moon within ten or anything...but, we are about to plunge a highly sensitive instrument into the atmosphere of a moon that is a solid distance away. It amazes me sometimes what we as a race are able to create and act upon. Our thoughts coming to fruition. This is the type of advance that could show us life. As I have said before...that time when we do discover and know of the existence of a growing reacting and whatevering life form will be a very bright day.
Mad, adj : Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence. Ambrose Bierce - The Deveil's Dictionsary
If all a probe is going to do is image from outside .. what's the use of it? Compare Hubble's photos of Titan to Voyagers.
.. it's useless.
The small telescope on Voyager can be matched by Earth or Earth orbit based telescope. If the ESO's massive 100m telescope can be built, we'll get shots better than what voyager or other space probes took.
My point is this. If the probe doesn't land on the surface
Cassini is carrying Huygens, that's what I consider the "use" of Cassini.
Hmmm how about an artist-impression of that... :-)
"Honey, I feel a certain distance between us..." "Really? A 31ms ping ain't that bad..."
We have a room on the irc.freenode.net servers called #cassini which is available to all who are interested in the Cassini project. Here you will find a wide range of interests discussed, from the informal to the most scientific details of the mission. Some of the Cassini staff have shown interest in participating to further support the project's public interest so don't be surprized to meet them there.
We also support the ' Maestro ' program which is the Public-Outreach software created for the Mars Exploration Rover Project from JPL . As a result, we helped maintain the #maestro room (also on freenode.net) which is still in operation today.
With such high interest building as Cassini-Huygens approaches orbital insertion and the Phoebe flyby, we expect a bigger rush in the next weeks. Join in and share the experience!
If you are not sure how to do 'IRC' there are many good primers online to help and you can visit http://freenode.net for details about connecting as well as links to assist you to set things up to chat online.
See all "/.'ers" there... ;^)
Pandelirium
http://www.pandelirium.net irc.freenode.net
#cassini
#maestro
#pandelirium
to get really high on june 11th?
"very psychedelic and beautiful area of our solar system into clearer focus."
What was, at the time, the world's largest PRO-SPACE demonstration was held, with little media attention, at the same time, inresponse to the erroneous deep-Green anti-space protesters. The Pro-Space rallies were held simultaneously in San Diego, Los Angeles, and maybe some other locations (Florida, I think). These pro-space events were organized by various chapters of the National Space Society. Jonathan Vos Post, often a /. poster (and more often lately as Anonumous Coward, it seems) ran the event at the Los Angeles Federal Building. dozens, maybe 100 people chanted "Don't be a weenie: vote from CRAF-Cassini", and were covered by The Daily News and local radio and TV stations. But, as I say, that's little media attention compared to those who insisted "plutonium is the deadliest substance known to man" and "this spaceship can kill everyone in Florida."
My point was, clearly stated, that people generally agreed that the probability of an event was low, even people who opposed the Cassini launch. Therefore, absence of an event does not prove, as the post implied, that the launch was low risk because the event itself was low probability.
Beyond that, you are just reiterating the usual arguments that the risk was low. I happen to agree with that. But arguing, as the original poster implied, that absence of deaths resulting from the Cassini launch suggests that Cassini was safe is a bogus argument, and presenting bogus arguments in support of some policy is a bad idea because, while people may not understand the safety of RTGs, they generally have a pretty good everyday understanding of probability, risk, and cost.
[NASA] are not infalliable, but they have numbers to back up their claims. And I would take a 100 scientist recommendation over an elitest snob.
NASA is publicly financed. If they acquire a reputation for going over people's heads with missions that are perceived to be dangerous, they'll lose political support and funding. It doesn't matter whether they are objectively right, what matters is whether they can convince the taxpayer that what they are doing is valuable and safe.
The only way to achieve that is to increase the general level of interest and understanding of science and technology in the US and around the world. Sending up space probes against significant objections and then presenting bogus arguments in hindsight to "show" that it was safe only does harm.
And, frankly, given how much trouble you seem to have participating in a coherent dissection of an argument, it seems to me your science education could stand some improvement as well. You see, just because one agrees with a conclusion does not mean that every argument leading to that conclusion has to be right.
The submission isn't really wrong, 5-6 months could still be considered a 'few' months but the Huygens probe won't be released until December, 2004, and won't reach Titan until January, 2005.
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???