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Do PS2-to-USB Keyboard Adapters Work?
ewhac asks: "Recently, I was charged with the mission of obtaining a particular small external USB keyboard, for use on a Win2K laptop. However, when the USB version proved unavailable, I obtained the equivalent PS/2 version and an inexpensive PS/2-to-USB adapter. Should have been cake... Except that it didn't work. Win2K failed to see the keyboard, claiming instead to see an unknown USB device. A different USB adapter didn't help. A different keyboard didn't help. Trying on a different computer didn't help. Googling my eyes out for several hours looking for answers didn't help (although I found a few people with the same question). So I thought I'd beseech the Slashdot crowd and ask how many people have had success using legacy input devices with small, inexpensive PS/2-to-USB adapters?"
"Here's the keyboard in question. Here's the first adapter we tested, and here's the second (ignore the picture; it's wrong). Several things about this experience have left me very confused. Keyboards and mice are simple manifestations of the USB HID (Human Input Device) class, and Win2K ships with a fairly complete set of HID drivers -- plugging in a keyboard should (and often does) Just Work. Hence, these adapters are sold without drivers. Further, the PS/2 electrical and logical specifications are older than dirt, and well understood. USB is also very well specified. So building an adapter should be a very straightforward effort, with little room for surprise or failure.
And yet, the damn thing refused to work. All PS/2 keyboards tested worked fine when connected to native PS/2 ports. All computers tested recognized all other USB devices when plugged in. But no matter what we did, we couldn't get any system to recognize any PS/2 keyboard plugged into these PS/2-to-USB adapters.
As the evening wore on, I started to wonder just how many other people had experienced this perplexing situation, and how they resolved it. The makers of these adapters wouldn't knowingly sell non-functional merchandise, so I assume that somehow these things can be made to work. What I'm wondering is what special conditions, if any, are required to get them to work."
And yet, the damn thing refused to work. All PS/2 keyboards tested worked fine when connected to native PS/2 ports. All computers tested recognized all other USB devices when plugged in. But no matter what we did, we couldn't get any system to recognize any PS/2 keyboard plugged into these PS/2-to-USB adapters.
As the evening wore on, I started to wonder just how many other people had experienced this perplexing situation, and how they resolved it. The makers of these adapters wouldn't knowingly sell non-functional merchandise, so I assume that somehow these things can be made to work. What I'm wondering is what special conditions, if any, are required to get them to work."
... with PS/2 adapter as I type this. worked from day one, the adapter came with the keyboard (Microsoft Natural).
I ran out of USB ports on the box and the hub doesn't seem to be the option, as my PDA suddenly stops responding. Had the same setup on my previous box as well.
So yeah, never had any problems with it whatsoever.
OK, I'm pretty sure that that adapter doesn't provide any USB interfacing beyond what's there in teh keyboard. You probably would need the adapter for sale here: http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetai l.asp?item=MISCABUSBW3R
Linked from that same page. A USB device is a smart device with a chip that discusses what it is with your computer. A PS/2 keyboard is NOT.
The more complete adapter probably fills in the gaps with a USB device chip that identifies itself as a PS/2 port.
Later,
Necris
P.S. Good luck with your setup!
After you start working with at least 20 computers daily you'll soon learn that nothing in windows just works all or even in the 90's of percent of the time.
The easiest thing to do here would be to think outside the box. Run the mouse off the usb port instead and run the keyboard off the native ps2 port.
I bought a cheapie keyboard/mouse adaptor from Fry's. It has separate mouse and keyboard PS/2 ports, and it claims that you can, with a laptop keyboard/mouse Y cable, plug in two keyboards and two mice.
Win2K required four reboots to install the HID drivers. That's one reboot each for "two" mice and "two" keyboards. After that it worked OK.
Linux required tweaking as I wanted to be able to use the built-in ps/2 touchpad as well. The keyboard was recognized but the mouse wasn't. A bit o' research with Google pointed me in the right direction [tweak xconfig] and I was off an running.
MacOS X just worked. Plug it in and go. No reboots, no tweaking.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
but did you try any mice with the same deal? I have used many many ps2 mice that came with a usb adapter and they all worked. I have had keyboards with a usb to ps2 adapter not work on some KVM's but I never battled with it much.
Good luck... I am anxious to see the suggestions.
Boredom's not a burden anyone should bear.
Both of those things look like they're simple adaptors that just change the plug from one to the other. Even the first link you mention says, "***IMPORTANT NOTE***: 10160 is the adapter ONLY, without chips and any software. If you do NOT have the related chips and software on your computer, we strongly recommend you to by the whole converter"
The one in that link looks more substantial and looks like it'll actually have some circuitry inside it, rather than just changing the pinout.
I have an older Logitech model similar to this. My PS/2 ports both blew, probably from repeated hot plugging/unplugging, and I had to get a PS/2 -> USB adapter. The thing works fine for me.
Now, one caveat...my system is strange. The wireless receiver for both my keyboard/mouse has two PS2 outputs, one for the mouse, one for the keyboard. I am actually able to run just one of these through a USB adapter and have both mouse and keyboard work. I have no idea how this happens, it just does.
I went to Radio Shack, bought the first PS2->USB adapter I saw and it has worked fine ever since. Didn't do anything special, are you sure your connector/USB port is working correctly?
--trb
In my experience, PS2 -> USB keyboard adapters only work when they're shipped with the keyboard. I'm typing on a MS Natural Keyboard now that uses a PS2 -> USB adapter (that came with it) and it works fine on my G5 and my XP machine. This adapter only works with this model keyboard though.
My guess is that the keyboard needs to be designed for USB and PS2 in order for the PS2 -> USB adapters to work.
I have a Microsoft keyboard and a PS/2 to USB adapter (don't know what kind..can't tell). It works fine on my XP box except that after I plug in my mini-usb hub, I have to unplug then re-plug the adapter. Otherwise the keyboard isn't recognized.
The very clear description of the first product reads....
Application: USB ADAPTER for USB A Type Male to Mini Din 6 Pin Female ***IMPORTANT NOTE***: 10160 is the adapter ONLY, without chips and any software. If you do NOT have the related chips and software on your computer, we strongly recommend you to by the whole convertor
Did you *buy* the whole convertor, or do you have the chips & software required to translate PS/2 -> USB already in your PC ( pretty damn unlikely! ).
The outpost convertor looks to be the same dealie.
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Maybe you used adapters that don't really work? I found this: http://www.xkeys.com/ymouse/whym08.php And it costs $60. Look at that thing, must contain a lot more guts than the adapters you used. I found this adapter sold by keyboard makers.
Your problem is the keyboard, not the adapter.
The adapter is only for dual function devices. These devices are able to tell the difference between PS/2 and USB and switch to that mode. The adapters are nothing more then strait through contacts with the correct pinout.
What you need is a USB / PS/2 keyboard. Then you can plug it into the adapter and all will be well.
Being slashdot, I doubt you read right off your own links.
Application: USB ADAPTER for USB A Type Male to Mini Din 6 Pin Female ***IMPORTANT NOTE***: 10160 is the adapter ONLY, without chips and any software. If you do NOT have the related chips and software on your computer, we strongly recommend you to by the whole converter.
So either get the right keyboard, or whole converter.
I've been blessed with a decent USB->PS/2 adapter, however I've heard horror stories.
There's an inside joke with me and my brother. We make reference to USB->PS/2 adapters exploding. We've actually devised plans to use them as weapons of mass destruction.
[Iraqi] They're dropping USB->PS/2 adapters on us! Run for cover!
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
the convertors in these cases are usually simple connectors, the compatibility is built in to the device, if it exists at all.
same reason why ps2->serial converts don't work with all mouses(just with the one's they shipped with usually) & etc...
(however, there might be such devices you're looking for but don't be fooled into thinking they would really be cheaper than some 10-20$ usb keyboard would)
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I have four of those adapters. I purchased them back when I had to get my Mac, Windows and Linux boxes working on the same KVM switch. One of them only works in Linux, one works in Windows and Linux, but poorly (caps lock and scroll lock seem to come on if I hit two keys at once) and in MacOS 10.3 not at all, and the others work perfectly. Unfortunatly I don't have the package for the one I have in my office, and it's in cable form with no identifying marking on it, so I can't tell you who made it or anything. It was a major brand... Kensington I think. It's grey with a blue USB plug, and the pink/green colors for the PS/2 keyboard and mouse plugs. The other one is a no-name, but it's a huge (3"x5"x1") plastic box that you wouldn't want to carry around. I can tell you that it's hit or miss with those things though. Try to get a well known vendor, and not some off brand one that probably has a little PIC16cwhatever with the reference code from the Microchip website in it.
As well known as all the protocols may be, you'd be suprised at the way they manage to screw those things up.
Keyboards that support both USB and PS2 have circuitry that support both protocols. Hence, they work with simple socket adaptors like the one you bought.
You bought a keyboard that only supports the PS/2 protocol, which is why you need something that translates the PS/2 protocol to USB.
It was $29 so it wasn't cheap, but it allows me to use my precious Model M on my new Powerbook.
It has both a PS/2 mouse and PS/2 keyboard connector. I've only used the keyboard part.
Fellowship 9/11
...for about a year now is an EZ-PU21 (google for it), no problems whatsoever.
It has two PS/2 inputs (keyb & mouse), no driver required, and works under Windows, Linux and MacOS.
Personal peeve: if it were more compact instead of a 25cm Y-dongle then it would've been perfect!
I have the Belkin USB-to-PS/2 Y-adapter to use my olde style keyboard and mouse with my laptop. Worked perfectly right out of the box with no reboots.
Keyboard is a Gateway AnyKey from '94, the mouse is a Tobshiba from somewhere in the late 90s. The PS/2 ends of the adapter go to my KVM cables; the USB end into a Compaq laptop. If USB-to-PS/2 works there, I'd expect it to work most places.
One thought, I don't know if the USB-to-PS/2 adapter makes the PS/2 items hot-swappable like USB items. It's no big deal to plug in a USB mouse or drive into a running MS windows system. Normally a PS/2 mouse or keyboard has to be plugged in when you boot the system. I don't know off hand if PS/2-through-USB follows the USB rules or PS/2 rules. Just a thought.
I bought a $13 CUE: CAT adapter from radio shack a year or two ago, i dont remember if it said it found an unknown device or not but the keyboard defiantly worked
The latter I got from Micro Innovations. You can find a lot of these things on Amazon.com.
Personally, I think there's a major quality control issue with these things. They're built to be cheap, and I suspect all manufacturers are coming up with "short cuts" that they shouldn't. The fact you found two that apparently use proprietary protocols (or otherwise do not appear as valid mice and keyboards) confirms this in my opinion. If you can avoid getting a PS/2 keyboard, do it!
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I have been using this one with both my Dell Inspiron 7000 (W2K and W98se) and my iBook (OSX 10.2) with no problems or glitches whatsoever. I vaguely recall Red Hat not being able to find the mouse during one installation but I don't remember the details or how/if I worked around it.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
... and works just fine: IOGear's PS2-USB adapter
Never had a problem with it. Be aware, though, that if you are using it with KVM, that Win2K/XP boxes need to have access to said devices while they power up, or they won't be recognized until you reboot.
got standards? --- http://www.w3.org/
sigh: somebody please shoot me...
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
If this was a Happy Hacking they do sell a USB model but only in Japan .
.
:-0
It's quite expensive, almost $250, but you can order it from Amazon Japan
Although it is Japanese the layout is US as you can see from the pictures. I understand it is quite a nice keyboard if just a little overpriced. They even sell some accesories like a "hand made" wooden wrist rest and a custom carrying case for a for about the price you'd pay for a really nice domestic keyboard
"didn't work at all" == the only motion I'd get, if any, was up and down, and only when I was scrolling the trackball side to side.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
I don't know the technical details, but I can say that adaptors like this consistantly work great, while adaptors like this don't work at all.
As far as I can tell, since the adaptors which work are always larger, I assume they have extra electronics inside so they can communicate with the USB port more intelligently.
If someone else knows the technical details of how this works, I'd love to hear about it.
I used one of the ones with 2 PS/2 adapters on it for a friend of mine's computer, and it worked flawlessly. It was a P3/733 and was running Win2k. It was even recognized at boot time so I could work in the BIOS with it. Windows installed it and didn't even need to let me know about it.
I was looking into this other day. I have a Trackman Marble FX (best trackball ever, I love them) and it's an old PS2 piece of hardware. I'm looking to upgrade to a G5 if Rev B's ever come out, but they don't have PS2 ports. I found when googling around that even these snazzier adapters with circuitry cannot handle properly the additional buttons on some mice and keyboards (or in this case, probably my trakcball with all 5 buttons). Apparently the drivers for these devices play tricks to send non-standard codes and then map them to whatever you want. Logitech's drivers supplied a little utility to map any of the buttons on my trackball to standard things like pulling up the start menu, etc. Unfortunately when USB adapters see these strange codes they don't know what to do and just ignore them, aka the additional buttons for changing the volume using your keyboard or the 4th and 5th buttons on your mouse or trackball simply won't work any more. Does anybody know about this first hand? I'd REALLy like to use my Marble Man FX under OSX and be able to use all 5 buttons.
Will Stokes Album Shaper http://albumshaper.sf.net
Let me guess ... you bought a happy hacker keyboard. But you didn't want to shell out the $70 for the newer, USB model, so you bought the older, much cheaper, PS/2 model. Well, eat it.
I have the newer, in black, usb version. It's FUCKING GREAT! Very small footprint (I never use the function keys or the numpad anyway, so it was great to get rid of them). Everything fits, and I REALLY REALLY like the control key at my left pinky. Getting used to the fn-delete for backspace was a slight trick at first, but I've got it mastered. All in all, I'd say very very worth the $70 or whatever I paid for it. Yes just a keyboard, but man, it's worth every penny! I bought mine from some linux___.com or something site. Good luck!
-Rob
terpmotors.com
I've purchased two different brands of PS/2->USB converters (both of the "keyboard & mouse" variety), and they have both sucked horribly. The first one would randomly "lock up" the keyboard, causing whatever character I was pressing at the time to be repeated over and over until you unplugged the adapter. The mouse wasn't "smooth", either.. it felt delayed.
The second adapter made the mouse's refresh rate really awful (reminded me of Windows 3.1 days) and wouldn't let you press more than 1 key at a time on the keyboard. What a waste.
Seems like such a simple thing to get so wrong.
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
First of all, it's Happy Hacking, second of all, the Happy Hacking Lite is grossly inferior for the original more expensive Happy Hacking.
They do sell the original model with USB , but only in Japan. It's brand new, and not available in the US. The most notable difference is much higher quality construction and higher quality contact mechanism. The non-Lite Happy Hackings are much heavier than the Lite ones and much cheaper for very good reasons.
Another popular keyboard is the Linux 101 from Unicomp, the IBM/Lexmark mechanicial keyboard business unit that got spun off years ago. They promise to sell a USB version of their EnduraPro which is programmable some time this year.
I was looking to buy one of these keyboards to be all 1337 with L1nu>in software and saved myself $70-$250.
The small adapter you in the photo to which you link has no electronics inside. It is only a connector adapter. Some mice have PS/2 connectors with extra pins that are needed with USB. When you use the provided adapter, those USB pins are connected. Only the mice with the extra USB arrangement work with the little adapters, not all PS/2 mice.
It's a fact that the more complicated PS2 to USB adapters do not always work reliably in Windows XP.
We redefine the Caps Lock key to be a Control key. All the adapters work well with this configuration with desktop computers. They work only sometimes with Toshiba laptops. Literally, sometimes Control-C will be Control-C, and sometimes Control-C will just type the letter C. This keeps switching back and forth as long as you type into a DOS editor. There is some order to it, but I haven't taken the time to discover what the order is. There is no problem with Windows programs.
How is this possible? Keyboard re-definition (Remapkey.exe in the Windows Resource Kit Tools) is supposed to work at a very low level. How can it work sometimes, and not others?
I discussed this issue with Microsoft tech support, and the representative said that he found a PS2 to USB adapter that did work reliably. However, he said it had no markings on it, and he didn't know where he got it. To him, that resolved the issue. To me, it seemed like he was lying.
I know many Slashdot readers will be deeply, deeply shocked when I say this, but that is not the only quirky behavior in Windows XP. I just finished with a conference call with three Microsoft tech support people that lasted an hour and 26 minutes. In preparation for that call I wrote this article: Windows XP problems: Port Re-direction.
As a result of the discussion, I discovered a theory. All four of us agreed during the call that Windows XP is constantly reorganizing itself. The intermittent failures discussed in the article occur because sometimes the port redirection command is executed before the system has loaded the code that gives access to the ports, and sometimes it loads it after.
The non-Lite Happy Hackings are much heavier than the Lite ones and much cheaper for very good reasons.
The non-Lite is much more expensive for very good reasons.
and the link to remap Caps Lock to Control is here , although you could have Googled for it just as easily as I did.
Having said that, we just went through a similar problem with USB-Serial converters. USB is well defined and RS-232 is ancient (and well defined). Yet, our product (which meets the RS-232 spec strictly) didn't work if the customer was using a USB-Serial converter. We found the converters (we tried several brands) were doing some subtly "unusual" things with both the signals and the serial port registers. We ended up modifying the product firmware and the software on the PC side to make allowances for these converters.
This may be your problem. If that particular converter hasn't been tested with your model keyboard, by the manufacturer, it may have problems.
Just remember:
Expensive software ==> expensive support
Free software ==> free support
Be warned that in either case you may get no answer (or a wrong answer).
We use the IOGear GUC100KM.
These are both larger and more expensive (List price $50) than the adapters mentioned in the original article, but they work, and are supported under Win 98, 98SE, 2000, ME, XP, MAC OS 8.6 or greater and SUN Solaris 8/9.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
I use a Logitech Elite with a PS/2 : USB adaptor and have been experiencing some strange symptoms. Anywhere between minutes and days after a clean boot, some of the special keys do not function. There appears to be no relationship between key position and functionality.
Is it possible that the converter is responsible?
Some keyboards are PS/2+USB on the inside, and use a very simple passive PS2USB adapter. The adapter doesn't do any of the neccesary protocol conversion, it just let's the keyboard's internal dual-mode PS/2 and USB logic talk the right way to the PC.
If the keyboard is truly USB-only or PS/2-only, then you need a bulkier active adaptor which actually translates between the two protocols
11*43+456^2
I had the same problem trying to connect this to my Thinkpad A31p. Didn't auto-repeat, & you can't have that, can you? Ended up having to get a port replicator. & I bet I'll have to do the same for every future laptop for ever (as I haven't found a better - & more modern - keyboard in 15 years).
Also, before someone mentions it, yes I have another model m with this mod, & that didn't work either.
-- Mod me down. I am not a karma tart. ffs,gag
Your keyboard supports only IBM-AT, PS/2 and DOSV (whatever that is) as protocols. However, when using a simple PS/2-USB-adapter that does not do protocol-translation, your keyboard must be able to understand USB.
I had the same problem when I bought a mouse with PS/2-serial-adapter. It worked fine until I changed the mouse against another PS/2-mouse. This new mouse didn't know about serial dataflow and refused to work with this simple adapter.
I've submitted a few "ask slashdot" questions and they never get submitted. I thought my questions were interesting and lively. What the hell kind of question is this? It's a freakin' adaptor sometimes they work sometimes they don't. If they didn't work at all they're wouldn't be a market for them and they wouldn't be packaged if pretty much every PS/2 device around. What's next "Do you like round or square ice cube trays?"
Did you install the vendor's drivers, or did you just expect the device to "just work"?
First thing you should have done is to plug it in a Linux box, and do /sbin/lsusb. If your adapter does not show up, it's b0rked. If it does, it's a Windows problem.
:wq
I use a Kinesis ergonomic keyboard (kinesis-ergo.com), an older model that came with dual ADB and PS/2 connections.
Moved from an older ADB Mac to a newer USB Mac.
The "i-Mate" ADB to USB didn't work.
The Y-Mouse connector from http://www.ymouse.com/ymouse.php
works.
"Never had a problem with it. Be aware, though, that if you are using it with KVM, that Win2K/XP boxes need to have access to said devices while they power up, or they won't be recognized until you reboot."
I've had problems with it sometimes "forgetting" that there were devices attached. That would happen under Windows W2K and Linux. ONLY a rebbot would fix it.
Yes
I had the same problem a while ago. Most of the ones availible are cheap POS. If you have the time and expertise, or can find someone that does, you can build your own from a PIC microcontroller. Microchip even gives the software away, and the schematic. (One note about the schematic is that is has the clock and data pins to the PS/2 port backwards.)
Microchip's Application Note
Microchip even provides gives out samples for free, you just need to find someway to program it.
Well, OK, happy hacking. Either way, from looking at your links, I have the $70 one. No function row, no numpad, adn the arrows in the right corner. It is "light", and small, and that's all I wanted. Never a problem yet ... I guess I didn't RTFOP ... but hey, for anyone who wants to decrease their keyboard footprint, snag one of these.
terpmotors.com
I have found that my logitech USB-to-PS/2 converters work well. I have yet to try anything else.
-- juggling flaming chainsaws --
Worst than that for me...
I have a focus FK-2001, the best keyboard ever made since the IBM keyboard of power. Its got basically the same layout, but updated to the standards of the late 90s.
It clicks and feels like a keyboard should. And reliable? Each key can be disassembled right down to the real metal contacts with little more than a screwdriver (not that I have ever needed to do so).
Above the board and below the key caps, is a metal spill gaurd that shunts liquids away from the key mechanisms and down to the bottom of the case, where they can do no harm.
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Ahh... Sensor overload... You saw the daystar too.. didn't you?
Oddly, all of the Dell systems I have (ancient and modern) have clearly labeled "mouse" and "keyboard" ports, and a keyboard will only work in the keyboard port.
Seems that some chipsets have function-specific ports, others do not?
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Must be specific to the chipset or boards Dell is using.. I've not attempted it on a Dell, but it definitely doesn't matter on any motherboard I've bought in the last few years.. I tend to build my own instead of buying packaged systems though.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I have used many of Pi's products since 1999 with no problems. I too have found that the cheapie Ps/2->USB adapters don't work. Try http://www.piengineering.com/ymouse/whym08.php The site lists where to buy it. Buy from a place that allows returns in case it doesn't work for you (although it probably will).