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Should Hardware Drivers be Region/Language Locked?
An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I have purchased Sony's new Hi-MD player. I popped in their driver CD, and instead of installer launching, I was greeted by the message,
'Cannot install for this Windows language.' It seems like it rejected installation, because my default language setting is Japanese, although I am using English version of Windows. I got the response from Sony stating that: 'If you are using a different language set up for your computer, you will not be able to use the software supplied with the product. Unfortunately, currently there is no workaround for this issue. The only option would be to change the language setting of your computer.' Now I'm asking for my money back. The hardware device is practically useless without the software installation, and it seems like they are going too far, especially since this may affect anyone who uses more than one languages on their computer. Isn't this discrimination to multi-lingual people living in the targeted market? And isn't it unfair to impose such restrictions on software that is required to use hardware?"
Don't buy Sony
Isn't this discrimination to multi-lingual people living in the targeted market?
Yes.
Lesson learned: Don't buy Sony.
Next...
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
1337 ?
our just poor Q and A on the install process... my guess is just a bug in the install process that doesn't allow the install to happen if it runs into a non-english language. it really wouldn't make sense to try and lock out users just based on their language. just My two cents.
This isn't a region or language lock-out. It's a language-aware installer that lacks a localization for your region.
The problem here, really, is that the installer won't offer to install some default localization when it can't find an appropriate one. There isn't some massive evil company trying to keep you from using their software.
Why not kick the computer to English for the duration of the install, and then switch it back?
"Yes, lock people out based on a language setting."?
All hardware and software should be language locked to English. People need to get with the picture and stop using those other languages because I don't understand them. :-)
The fact is, if they want to do this then they can, and you do not have to buy their product if their choice sucks. I have two sony drives, but of course I use Linux so I wouldn't know about their windows policy.
I'm sure the reasoning behind the policy is to prevent people from buying foreign drives cheaper. Have you tried setting windows to english, installing the drivers, then setting it back to japanese? I'm sure if it were that simple though you wouldn't have had to ask slashdot.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Discrimination it's not, technically(not giving a multi-lingual person an advantage is arguably, not discrimination, since it's not a disadvantage...). Well I'm sure it's being argued that way, someplace.
But the real reason is probably that if it worked in Japanese, people might export your version to Japan, where it likely is much more expensive, and Sony would lose revenue(let's not get into the ethics of that shall we?). It's arguably why some Francophone markets(I'm from Quebec) have to wait longer than others to get their version of a DVD, even it's its already available. (Sometimes I really wish Quebec would go back to it's "release in both official languages at the same time, by law.) Because european-french releases usually are much more tardy than North American ones, we have to wait for software, until it's released over there, even if it's translated here(and ready by the same time the North-American English version is).
Now I wasn't aware they charged extra for the fr_FR version, but I'm sure a grey market copy would inflate in value in France, if it was available before everyone else can get a copy.
In your case, I'd strongly suspect that the english/multilingual copy to be cheaper than the Japanese version. Oddly enough, lots of software will install in english on a french computer, so I suspect it's not a technical "deny" but more of an administrative/marketing one in your case. (Yes I know, there are also issues about input methods, but I doubt it's the problem here, as you mention a driver...)
if the software being installed does not have a japanese translation available (and there is a japanese version of course), but even so I'm surprised it's not overridable.
Also, have you tried setting the default language to english, installing, and changing the language back? I'm not sure if this is possible under windows (I'm a macosx/linux/*bsd user myself), but it seems like a possible workaround.
For a while my company would ALSO lock you out of installing on a japanese machine.
As it turns out japanese machines have a different base character set, and the installer [installshield] would crash ALL the time. Even if multiple language packs were installed. Eventually after much head scratching, and installshield saying "wow you are right it doesnt work here either, and we have no idea why" I finally figured out what it was.
Turns out installshield at the time if you had a copyright symbol in a start emnu folder name would always crash.
I've also seen installations that just simply did not support japanese or chinese. They do have different language formats, not every letter can be kept in a single byte of data.
Or the CD-rom is hard coded to a region, and they make assumptions about people in a different regional language trying to install hardware not region specific. hard to say.
Their software is crap anyway, and they have crappy support.
Yeah! I am upset as well. I have been trying to post to slashdot in many different languages, and it does not work.
I will try again:
Cyrillic:
Hebrew:
It does not look like it is working properly. All I see is that it is changed to unicode characters that slashdot seems to filter when they are displayed. What do they think I am going to do with them? Construct a giant unicode version of ascii art goatse?
I am very annoyed! I petition for slashdot to be multilingual.
badness 10000
It's simply really, the idiot programmer didn't bother i18n'ing his driver, so he just blocks out everything that's not US English. He does this because he works for Sony, whose corporate mindset is "Fuck them as hard as we can get away with". Now you, the customer, go out and buy Sony because you like the flashy colours and are led to believe that it's a better toy than Brand-X because of its heavy price tag, thus you just made "their" system work.
Return that piece of crap, I'll even drive you to the store at gunpoint if you're not convinced.
I used to be a Sony fanboy, heck I used to have a few shares in Sony stock, but I eventually learned that the grass is much greener on the other side of the megacorp.
Take my audio advice, if you want a nice tech toy, go with a company that has a proven track record with MP3 players, such as Rio, or a Creative Nomad or even an Archos if those things still exist. Don't waste your time with the TV-maker brands like Sony, Samsung, RCA, they pretty much all such in one major way or another. I am no expert on these devices, as my idea of a portable mp3 player is my car and its 3000$ sound system (screw headphones!), but I think a company whose main focus is computers and sound, is quite likely to build a better product than one who specializes in selling cheap electronics to the common ignorant majority.
Myself, I'd get a PocketPC or a tabletized notebook.. at least you can use those for other things than MP3, and you don't have to bust an artery when AAC or WMV or whatever-next-gen-format takes over.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
No.
This sig is only here so people stop skipping the last lines of my posts.
This is a ridiculous attempt at DRM. What do you do if you sell the drive on E-Bay overseas to a different region? Are they going to let you download the drivers for the new region?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Why does Slashdot *still* block pound signs?
Look, here's one:
Did you see it?
No?
Because it isn't friggin' there, is it?!
They didn't write the installer from scratch, and someone thought it'd be a good idea to check off english in the installer configs perhaps not knowing the ramifications for this. Very few programs have installers coded from scratch.
Photos.
This is standard operating procedure for Sony.
Sony, much like every other company, want to maximise their profits. Sony, unlike most companies, is large enough to set standards and influence government policy on matters such as copyright so that they can engage in discriminatory pricing (discriminatory in the sense that are able to discriminate between markets and charge in each market according to demand and local pricings.)
Proprietay hardware and software formats. Pointless (from the user's point of view) restrictions on using their hardware. Lobbying for legislation to declare re-importation of CDs as a copyright violation. Region ecoding on DVDs. These are all part of the same policy.
The fact that they make sexy looking hardware is no reason to buy into this scheme unnecessarily.
Given the asinine restrictions and unnecessary hoops I would have to jump through to use a Net-MD player or its ilk, there is no way I'd ever buy an MD player with the intent of connecting it to a computer. I'm sorry to hear that yet another aspect of their profit-maximisation policy has claimed a victim.
PS: Sony warranty support is also one of the worst I've ever had to deal with in a professional capacity. Again, they're big enough that they don't need to care.
PPS: It's a real shame that the fruits of Fujitsu's very cool MO technology look like they will be primarily found only in Sony's product. The 2.3GB MO 3.5" format was amazing, but just never caught on. There was a collaboration with Sony and this looks like the result.
A few years back, I bought a ThinkPad. It came with a special ThinkPad build of some DVD player software, don't remember the name of it. But, because my locale wasn't set to English, its default language for the software setup was either Mandarin or Cantonese,... which, unless you are Chinese and living in Western Europe, is pretty much useless. But, as soon as I set my locale settings to en_US, the installation greeted me in English.
...Good for TV's, Monitors, Video Cameras and the like. Their consoles are pretty good too.
But their MP3 players... evil. Their software sucks anyway, you're not missing out on much.
"Proprietary Product: Caveat Emptor!" (sorry for mixing the latin with the greek chorus reference).
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
:-)
(whadda ya bet somebody posts about Sony being a Japanese company anyway?)
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Another poster suggested switching to English so you can install the software. Did you try that? Or does it refuse to work even after installation?
Also, have you looked for "Japanese" drivers on the Sony web site? Never mind that their "technical support" (probably sitting in Bangalore) told you there was no work around.
On the other hand, region software lock-outs are common in video game software, though I bought a GameBoy AdvancedSP in Japan and catridges sold here in the US work fine.
Why on earth would anyone still buy a music device that requires more work than just the usb/firewire mass storage driver?
I can't see how anyone would want to spend the money on a device that's that bent on locking them into that kind of crap.
I might look the other way when some itunes-lover buys an ipod, but I'm sure as hell never buying one, as long as they require that much overhead just to copy the music over.
Does someone want to explain why anyone would choose an itunes or musicmatch or sony software dependant music player?
This kind of thoughtlessness regarding people who speak more than one language is all too common. Windows is a nightmare for multilingual users. You can't change OS languages without reinstalling, and using programs in two languages with different encodings inevitably results in one language being completely mangled. This is one area where the Mac really shines. And don't even get me started on idiot webmail programmers who think that everyone uses ASCII, search sites that think everyone uses Latin1, etc. etc. etc. Your experience is slightly worse than normal, but not surprising. The correct response is to demand your money back and send them a strong message that they need to be aware that not everybody in a given country exclusively speaks that country's national language.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Why do you need special software? it seems to me that it should just work;
3) High Compatibility with PC
"Hi-MD" uses the FAT file system, making it possible to use "Hi-MD" formatted MDs and 1GB "Hi-MD" discs as versatile media for recording PC data files, such as images and text. Furthermore, as portable, rewritable PC media, "Hi-MD" complies with USB format's Mass Storage Class, ensuring that simply by connecting a "Hi-MD" product to a PC it is immediately recognized as an external storage device.
even if you needed to convert to atrac, there are some utilities out there that allow you to do this easily. i think you just didnt do any investigating.
..you'll be sucking down the Euros quicker than Tony Blair can say "We are firm allies of the Americans"
I can kind of see their point; if people try to install using instructions in a language they don't know, the results can be random. I was once asked to help a friend install something on her PC. She booted up her PC, popped in the CD, and up came a dialog box. In Chinese. She asked "what should the answer to this question be?" and I asked her "well, what is the question?" It took a long time because the translation process was non-trivial. I can see why Sony might balk at the idea of having their help desk try to sort out the problems experienced by users trying to install on a system using an unfamiliar language.
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
This isn't Flamebait. It's at the least Interesting or Informative. It certainly shouldn't be modded down. Stop being reactionary.
"Isn't this discrimination to multi-lingual people living in the targeted market? And isn't it unfair to impose such restrictions on software that is required to use hardware?"
Is this the best you came up with? This is is Ask Slashdot, i.e. a tech-crowd. A better question would be:"So did anyone manage, or is planning, to find a way around it, either through some kind of emulation, or possibly by hacking the device/software?"
As for your questions, Sony is a company which is both global and fascist, in the sense that it considers it's own vision, of complete vertical integration, superior to what customers actually want or need. The company does very little market-research, does most of it's R&D and development in Japan, and offers standardised products across the globe. Most decisions regarding products are also made at the top (i.e. Japan, sometimes US) and feedback from the market takes weeks, if not months, to be filtered back after going through dozens of managers. Even so, Sony is under intense pressure to change it's tactics, not from customers directly, but because of better and cheaper competition. For any real change to happen, however, will take a long-long time.
If you call the '#' character "pound sign", then why does Slashdot provide no way for a comment to contain the GBP sign (U+00A3)?
You can just change your OS settings for the install. then change it back.
I think it was CloneCD that had some functions that were illegal in the US and some countries, so if you installed the software in those countries, some features would be disabled. So I'd just change my settings to that have The Netherlands and installed the software (all features enable) changed the setting back and still had access to all the features.
So go to the control panel and change the region settings, install the software, change them back and injoy.
In case it doesn't work when you change it back, then don't. you don't have to have the region settings and language/fonts match. so you can have the computer think it's in japan but using Italian if you like...
Be seeing you...
what can be more easily explained by stupidity. Nuff said.
The Windows NT kernels (i.e. NT/2K/XP/2k3) handle everything in Unicode internally (UTF-16 encoded) and thus are total bliss for multilanguage users. You can switch input language on the fly with a quick key combo.
The text functions contain a layer called Uniscribe, which is a system for handling complex scripts automatically.
The problem is legacy apps compiled in ANSI/8-bit mode, and which are still being churned out by clueless Windows programmers.
Making a Unicode-compatible app on Windows is no longer hard thanks to the Unicode compatibility layer (Google for unicows.dll). Just use wchar_t instead of char and be happy.
Luckily on the web, most proper sites and systems have already moved to Unicode (UTF-8 encoded).
I bought an Epson PM-940 printer in Japan. When I tried installing the printer driver in English Windows XP, it spat out an error that said something like 'Invalid Environment' and quit.
Unfortunately, this model has no direct equivalent in the English speaking world, and I'm still trying to get it to work under Linux.
Hopefully Mandrake 10 with a new version of gimp-print drivers (which say they support the PM-940) will solve the issue.
Krishna
--- I'd love to go out with you, but I have to study for a Turing test.
I marked your mod unfair. Dmayle's post is misinformed and inaccurate, but not a troll.
#1: If the driver package is a .MSI file, then you might be able to set a Property to a certain value and FORCE it to install regarless of language.
(Heck, if you have it kicking around I'll take a look at it for you.)
#2: Repackage on an English install of Windows, then use the new package to install on your Japanese install of Windows. This is doable but involves lots of Trial-n-error. Might still not work depending on what silly things they've done inside the real package (DRM, Machine fingerprinting,...).
BTW: My day job is packaging Windows apps but I long to return working on Unix boxes. So much simpler and less BS.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Isn't it ironic that a Sony device won't work because your language is set to Japanese??