Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Valve Announces Half-Life 2 Code Theft Arrests

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the mcgruff-the-crime-dog-says dept.

Ant writes "GameSpot and other sources report arrests were made: Developer of the much-anticipated and delayed shooter sequel reveals an international wave of arrests has been made. The Half-Life 2 code theft saga entered a new chapter today when Valve Software announced a series of arrests had been made in the case. According to Valve, suspects in several countries had been taken into custody in relation to charges stemming from the theft of the Half-Life 2 code, distribution of the code, and breaking into Valve's network..."

118 of 545 comments (clear)

  1. "other sources"? by ack154 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not too many "other sources" available. The Google News search only lists the GameSpot article.

    1. Re:"other sources"? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 5, Informative

      Click on "and more" ...

      Google attempts to group related articles.

      --
      tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
    2. Re:"other sources"? by Zathrus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At the time I clicked there was also an article on Tom's Hardware. It managed to have less content than the GameSpot article.

      Whole lot of nothing here... Valve says some people were arrested, the FBI is declining to say anything than that they arrested some people (the agent who was contacted was smart enough not to say any more than that... if the FBI wants to make a press splash on this then they will, but the desk agent in charge (or whatever their designation is) sure as hell can't make that decision).

      I'm sure there will be the standard wild speculation, claims from various people that they know someone who was arrested, etc.

      And, of course, the continuing claims from the looneys who say that there was no code theft and that the entire story was made up to hide the fact that the code just wasn't ready. I'm not disputing the second half of that -- the code wasn't, and Valve was stupid to say they were on target. But if they'd made the entire thing up, as the conspiracy theorists say, then the FBI would still have arrested people. Except that it'd be Gabe Newell and the rest of Valve management for filing a false report, lieing to a federal officer, and whatever else they could dredge up to charge them with.

    3. Re:"other sources"? by GoofyBoy · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can't wait until Google news picks up this slashdot article.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    4. Re:"other sources"? by ericspinder · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I figured that the GameSpot site would kick off my company's web filter (don't want to do that too often!; "This site is catagorized as games, this has been logged") so I checked the other sources only to find this slashdot article as the top result. Recursive linking at it's best!

      Tom's Hardware had a blurb:

      "Within a few days of the announcement of the break-in, the online gaming community had tracked down those involved," said Gabe Newell, Valve's CEO. "It was extraordinary to watch how quickly and how cleverly gamers were able to unravel what are traditionally unsolvable problems for law enforcement related to this kind of cyber-crime."
      Who needs security when you have rabid fans. Perhaps companies should post rewards for tips leading to convictions.
      --
      The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
    5. Re:"other sources"? by nexex · · Score: 4, Funny
      Perhaps companies should post rewards for tips leading to convictions.

      Just look how well thats worked for Microsoft & SCO. :)

      --
      Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
    6. Re:"other sources"? by fatboyslack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Theft??

      The obsolete meaning is property related that you refer to.

      The more modern meaning is "The act or an instance of stealing; larceny." Which suits this ok. The alleged perps acquired something they had no right to, hence stealing, hence theft.

      Check out the delightful dictionary.com

      --
      Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
    7. Re:"other sources"? by nial-in-a-box · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Well that's interesting. This goes right along with the alleged leaked Windows source code. I have yet to even hear someone remotely reputable claim to have compiled and run even a portion of either of these sources. It would only seem natural that someone with the source code for something they have interest in would compile and test it, especially when it's something that is not yet available by any other means. Sure, the complaint is that the integrity of the game has been compromised because cheats and hacks can be developed more rapidly with the aid of the source code. This is all good and well, but these so-called cheats aren't just going to diddle around with the code until the game comes out so they can test it.

      What I'm trying to get at is this: yes, I believe that something was stolen from Valve, and that it involved Half-Life 2. No, I do not believe that it was anywhere near the full source code of the game. Consequently, Valve's claims would then be essentially bunk, unless it was specifically the security chunk of the code that was stolen, which seems mighty convenient. What it all boils down to is that this all happened at a convenient time, which has been established. I didn't have to work yesterday because it was raining in the morning. The forecast said it would storm all day, but instead it really only rained for a couple hours early in the day. So while it was true that tree work would not have been the best idea in the morning, it later became a beautiful day. This is a bad analogy, but the point should be clear.

      --
      I am feeling fat and sassy
    8. Re:"other sources"? by nilbus · · Score: 3, Informative
      Sorry, I should have made it clear in my earlier post.

      The leaked source compiles and runs. There are no maps, models or content, but the engine works. It wasn't finished, and there are bugs. That's why it wasn't released yet, right?
      All people needed to do to create a working HL2 mod was create the custom models and maps.

    9. Re:"other sources"? by darc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In fact, this has actually been done. People did indeed compile the HL2 engine, and insert HL content into it, generating a working sort of demo, including a port of some counterstrike files. Don't get all excited yet, it works, but not as well as a retail game. You can find it on suprnova, and related sites.

      So, the HL2 leak is QUITE real, you can try it yourself.

      --
      Tired of legitimate data sources? Try UNCYCLOPEDIA
    10. Re:"other sources"? by MrSin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have a copy? Funny....I have a liscence to have a copy, but I don't have a copy. I bought a 9800XT so I could own the game. I legally have a right to own the game. So if I get my hands on a copy then I'm right, right?

      Right.

      --
      It's a trick....get an axe.
  2. I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ba-dum - cha!

    1. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, its not. Its not even funny.

      Freeman, if anything, is a reference either to slavery or the 'Dune' series. There's no real relationship with the idea of a free game or intellectual property theft.

      What might have been ironic is if the game were entitled "Unstealable" or something, but even that would be a stretch at best.

      --
      "Stumble before you crawl"
    2. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by orasio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hm.. there is no such thing as intellectual property theft, more like
      copyright infringement.
      The problem here is not that someone stole some CD or could break into some computer, but that the code was distributed.
      There would have to be such a thing as intellectual property, from which its legitimate owner could be deprived, in order for theft to happen.

    3. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure the thousands of lawyers in 'intellectual property' classes, not to mention the lawyers who practice in it, would disagree with you.

      Someone either broke physically into their building, broke electronically into their servers, or illegally duplicated a legal copy (which is defined by law as theft), so no matter what Valve had something stolen from them.

      Next time you want to make a snide comment about the lack of 'intellectual property', you do me a favor and suggest at the same time why any programmers should be paid. Is it for their labor? Then no programmers should ever have 'rights' to their code, right?

      --
      "Stumble before you crawl"
    4. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by Trejkaz · · Score: 2, Funny

      That reminds me, I always wanted to make a game called "steal this game", but for some reason I keep suspecting that no publisher will pick it up anyway... and calling it "steal this game" doesn't really work if you release it open source.

      --
      Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
    5. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      well actually, This "intelectual property argument" would depend on your definition and the use. you can't own an idea, you can however put the idea to works and own the works. Intelectual property is either the idea, or the works made from the idea. Technicaly it is the idea and not both.

      To ilistrate this, think of putting icing on a doughnut, then try and pattent or take owner ship of this idea. You can't. Now think of making a pice of software that does a specific thing,in a specific way. You can own the device it created but not the idea of making the device.

      In this case the device is a specific game that plays a certain way. You can own the game (a device or copy writen work) but not the idea of making a game. Once the game is made into a device or a work, it is physical and not intelectual hence the argument that always ensues trying to colorfully state the differences and as always, someone will goto the extream in one direction or the other.

      If you noticed, the parent made the conection of it not being intelectual property and refered it to a physical object like copy right instead. Now the oposite extream has been made were someone can't figure out that copyright or physical property has value and then claims to make an argument about those that don't believe in the way they do live in some alternate reality. In short,the reality is when looking at the way it is being used, both are the same thing and aren't intelectual at all but physical instead.

    6. Re:I guess they closed that leaky Valve? by orasio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, again, for the slow readers...

      Of course there is a problem with breaking into someone's property, stealing stuff and breaking even electronic stuff. What I tried to say is that the fact that matters _in_this_case_ is not theft itself, (a small damage for the company, and maybe a big crime, punished with years in jail in most places) but copyright infringement (a big damage for the company, in this case) , which is not a form of theft, because no one is deprived of their property. You could say thet they are deprived of potential profits, and be right, but that is not intellectual property theft.

      Intellectual property has no specific meaning itself, because it is usually applied to many concepts that have little to do with each other (patents, trade marks, trade secrets, copyright, property). Although it is actually used in many places, that term is confusing, because leads to the incorrect assumption that they are all the same, and that they are property, while they share little with each other, and with the concept of property. That leads to the general public to make assumptions about copyight by analogy to property, or to patents, while that would be wrong. Copyright infringement has its own laws everywhere.

  3. I wonder if... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...Valve was waiting for the arrests before releasing the game.

    --
    tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
    1. Re:I wonder if... by Lux · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Not a bloody chance. It's pretty clear that they just capitalized on the source code leak as an excuse to slip the release date. There's really no way they could sit on a game for nine months reworking the code to break compatibility with potential cracks for the leaked code. It's neither that long of a project, nor an justifiable use of man-hours.

      The game is just way behind schedule.

    2. Re:I wonder if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      From what I hear, Gordon Freeman wanted 10 minutes in a room with them first. Something about a crowbar.

    3. Re:I wonder if... by AEton · · Score: 4, Funny

      They kind of had to. You see, the code that was stolen composed most of the core of the game; and they had to find and arrest the thief so they could get their code back. Only once the stolen property is returned to its owner can the development continue.

      --
      We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
    4. Re:I wonder if... by pilkul · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You might be right. But I wonder if the leak might not have caused a lot of chaos at Valve as well. I can imagine angry speeches from bosses, IT staff getting fired etc as a result of the crack. They may have had to realign much of their organization to have a stronger security focus. Certainly plain old delays are common in the gaming industry, but it seems also quite plausible to me that the leak may have played a part.

    5. Re:I wonder if... by SphericalCrusher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just hate the fact that when developers do get behind schedule, everyfuckingbody jumps at them. Maybe Valve should just be more like idSoftware, with the motto of "It'll be finished when it's finished." That way, they won't have any annoying ass gamers bitching and starting hate crimes against them when they miss a release date. I just think all developers should be like that. Besides, so what if they miss a release date? As long as they are taking their time and make an awesome game, I'll be happy. Sure, I'd want it to come out faster, but I would drop that need over the chance that the game would be improved if kept in development longer. Look at Enter the Matrix... they rushed to hit the release date, missed it, rushed some more.. and made a very shitty game.

      --
      "Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
    6. Re:I wonder if... by Xugumad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not the missing the release date that gets to me. It's that they didn't announce it was going to be late until a matter of days before the original release date. On top of that, for a game that was meant to be finished 4 months after announcing, we're now at 11 months, which makes me wonder if they ever really believed they'd make that date, or were just winding up the gamers to get them interested.

      And that's what bugs me.

    7. Re:I wonder if... by Vengeance_au · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To build on this point - I've got a coupon for Half Life 2 that came with an ATI video card. That coupon is about 7 or 8 months old, as is the (at the time bleeding edge) Radeon 9800. I'm jacked that I'm waiting for a game I've paid for is not in my hands. I'll be even more ropeable if the video card has ANY troubles with the game at all, but thats another story.

      Serves me right I suppose.... repeat after me boys and girls, never pay for something that is not available yet. Preordered games fall into the same category.

      Ah well, I guess Far Cry will tide me over :-).

  4. Release Date? by FesterDaFelcher · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does that mean they can release it on time now? Oh wait...

    --
    My user number is prime. Is yours?
  5. Karma Karma Karma Karma Kameleon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    He comes and goes... he comes and goooooeeess...

    The Half-Life 2 code theft saga entered a new chapter today when Valve Software announced a series of arrests had been made in the case. According to Valve, suspects in several countries had been taken into custody in relation to charges stemming from the theft of the Half-Life 2 code, distribution of the code, and breaking into Valve's network.

    Valve CEO Gabe Newell credited gamers with providing the information that led to the arrests. "It was extraordinary to watch how quickly and how cleverly gamers were able to unravel what are traditionally unsolvable problems for law enforcement related to this kind of cyber-crime," he said in a statement. "Everyone here at Valve is once again reminded of how much we owe to the gaming community."

    However, while Valve announced the arrests today, it was unclear when they actually occurred. Valve's statement on the matter--e-mailed to the press today--quoted Newell as saying, "within a few days of the announcement of the break-in, the online gaming community had tracked down those involved."

    The FBI's Northwest Cyber Crime Task Force, the law-enforcement agency overseeing the code theft investigation, also divulged little information. When asked by GameSpot if it had made any arrests, media contact at the task force's Seattle, WA, headquarters said simply, "we did." However, when pressed for more information on the case--i.e. how many people in the US were arrested, where were they apprehended--the agent declined to say anything other than arrests had been made. "Beyond that we can not comment," he said.

    News of the Half-Life 2 arrests comes after months of rumors about law-enforcement activity on the case. In January, a number of computer experts in the San Francisco area reported having their hardware seized by FBI agents on the grounds they were involved in the theft. Several weeks ago, unconfirmed reports from Germany said the author of the Phatbot Trojan worm was also involved in the theft. In both instances, neither Valve nor the authorities offered any comment.

    GameSpot will have more details on this developing story as they become available.

  6. loading, please wait... by mr.+methane · · Score: 4, Funny

    Loading "Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison Level" ......

    1. Re:loading, please wait... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That would help a different problem.

      It stands to reason that the people that rape others in prison are there for violent crimes to begin with (i.e. actually should be there.

      Even if you removed all the people who "shouldn't be there" (exactly who that should be is a different discussion), you'd still have the problem of the violent criminals raping each other. Before you say "but they deserve it!" remember these things:
      • The U.S. forbids "cruel and unusual" punishment. It's been established that rape qualifies.
      • Neither you nor the rapist gets to decide who "deserves it"!
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:loading, please wait... by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can someone please tell me why anal rape is so funny to Americans?

      Sexual assault is now a major component of the US criminal justice system. The understanding is that the strongest prisoners will rape the others. It's an unspoken additional punishment that law-enforcement winks at.

      This is related to the way that the Iraqi prison scandal got started (the US MP who was court martialed was a New Jersey prison guard in civilian life, remember). Of course, in Abu Ghariab the prisoners didn't start on their own, and needed some prodding to get the idea...

      Imagine being raped in the arse repeatedly for "Stealing" some source code...

      Or for growing marijuana... no, it's not fair, is it?

  7. Thanks! by NitroWolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    Valve CEO Gabe Newell credited gamers with providing the information that led to the arrests. "It was extraordinary to watch how quickly and how cleverly gamers were able to unravel what are traditionally unsolvable problems for law enforcement related to this kind of cyber-crime," he said in a statement. "Everyone here at Valve is once again reminded of how much we owe to the gaming community."

    Thanks Gabe, glad to be of service! How about a free copy of HL2 to make up for the debt you "owe" me. No? WTF?

    1. Re:Thanks! by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How about a Linux release?

      --
      tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
    2. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Linux users are not gamers. They just drive around in a stupid car and think they are penguins.

  8. wonder how it will all pan out.... by emphatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i wonder how the punishment's will align themselves, across countries and across the different charges... surely the "code theft" charge will be handled a little different from kevin mitnick's? ;) time to sit back and watch, i guess... should be interesting.

  9. My idea of justice by Giant+Ape+Skeleton · · Score: 4, Funny
    I have the perfect punishment:

    Send them to XEN.

    --
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
    1. Re:My idea of justice by Coneasfast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i don't understand why xen was unpopular! i sure liked it! no seriously. it was cool, the bouncing around and the healing thingy.

      --
      Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
  10. It was announced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That those arrested would be released the same time Half Life 2 is. Personally I think thats a pretty harsh sentence!

  11. Points of interest by Concrete+Nomad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1. Bad that people steal code.
    2. Good for Half-Life 2 cause that means the fans really like it.
    3. A possible sign that Valve should hire more people so they can release it sooner.
    4. What moron allows an email to install a keyboard sniffer on his computer. Anti-virus and patches take care of a lot of that. Not to mention the network guys should have caught that one quick.
    5. Fire the retarded programmer that lets sniffers get installed on his PC and fire the network guys that didn't stop it.
    6. Release the game already

  12. So THAT's who stole it . . . by vizualizr · · Score: 5, Funny

    Police are reporting that one of the suspects, Douglas "Duke" Nukem, had, in his words, been trying to get his hands on some source code like this "FOREVER".

    --
    anything i tell you will cloud your opinion.
  13. Likely plea... by jemenake · · Score: 5, Funny

    "But, your honor.... we were just trying to help Valve meet their release date!". :)

  14. Details on FBI raid of the Hungry Progammers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Remembered as the crew who created LessTiff, the Hungry Progammers were raided by the FBI in order to obtain evidence in the Half-Life 2 case. Details of the raid are a real eye-opener.

    1. Re:Details on FBI raid of the Hungry Progammers by Mark+Gordon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bear in mind that the programmer who was raided hasn't been arrested. He got his machines back a while ago.

  15. I can't wait! by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Funny
    When will the "IP police raid" mods be out?!!!!

    I wanna play Jon Johansen!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  16. Use your words carefully by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please, editors, don't use words like 'theft' in the same way that the RIAA etc. use them. No-one was deprived of code in this incident and so it wasn't theft.

    1. Re:Use your words carefully by rilister · · Score: 2, Funny

      and you would say what? ... liberated? ;)

      --
      'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
  17. So this means.. by dai · · Score: 5, Funny

    that there actually exists some code!?

  18. things valve should be worried about by Da_Slayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope that Valve did not put all their efforts into just catching the people who did it. I admit that those people did break the law and need to be caught but Valve is a company that relies on it's products.

    Seeing as this game has been delayed since before this incident I wonder exactly as to the calibur of the game. If they shifted too much focus off development they might have shot themselves in the foot when they release a sub-par game.

    So if anyone from Valve is reading this or you know someone who works there just give them a gentle nudge and remind them that we care about the quality of their games and the promptness in which they are delivered. Not that Half Life 2 is vaporware or anything but people are losing interest just because of the delay.

    --
    Push harder towards Open Media/Content
  19. did they just arrest some people distributing.. by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ..it or did they actually found the guilty one's?

    however.. does a game developer house have any responsibility over LYING about the state of the game? to investors, to publishing partners, to customers doing pre-orders... when they had no realistical hope of meeting the deadline(a deadline that they should have set and met 2 fucking years ago anyways).

    sure they might have been under pressure to do so but what the hell, they told that the game was basically ready just few weeks before the whole hacking shesbang, in which case the hacking would have been a very big deal obviously. however, pushing the delays reason on it is just.. well, it sucks. they suck. getting hacked makes them suck anyways(would make me think twice in investing).

    I'm not intrested in them catching the guys who did the hacking.. I'm intrested in if VALVE can get the game out or not! so, what i'm really intrested in is that if they have or have not coded the revolutionary AI they said they had coded already a friggin year ago(must have really been a kick in the nuts to see that the whole world saw that the demos were scripted, when you said that they werent..).

    oh well, I could always buy that strategy guide from amazon.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    1. Re:did they just arrest some people distributing.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      when they had no realistical hope of meeting the deadline(a deadline that they should have set and met 2 fucking years ago anyways).

      The first the general public knew about the existence of Half-Life 2 (beyond a few rumours) was not long before E3 last year, a bit over a year ago.

      Everyone's a security expert when it's somebody else's computer system that been broken into. Can you honestly say you've never done anything that might have potentially allowed a determined individual access to your private network?

      The original Half-Life was over a year late; that year transformed the game from a probable also-ran to being something memorable. Yes, it sucks that the sequel is delayed too, but I'd much rather they had the guts to go against what they've said and fix the problems they obviously saw in what they were creating.

      People are endlessly complaining about games being rushed to market, with horrible gameplay bugs or terrible hardware requirements, necessitating a series of patches to make the game halfway playable. I gather a good deal of what Valve has been up to is playtesting the game, making sure it's worth playing and is as good as they can reasonably make it. Weren't there complaints recently about the savegames in Thief 3 being broken? Perhaps that's the sort of thing they're trying to avoid.

      Then there are claims of 'scripting' in the leaked demos. Believe it or not, some things have to be scripted. Decent AI might get a simulated soldier to behave realistically and evade or attack the player at appropriate moments, but higher-order behaviours (like, say, breaking a door open) need to be scripted. It would be impressive for a human player to instantaneously figure out all the interactive aspects of a map, let alone a computer-controlled enemy. The scripting for such complex behaviours needs a lot of work to take account of many different possiblities, and it's obvious that Valve didn't include all of them in the demonstration map. But it's not as if the whole lot was faked, like the E3 2000 Halo demonstration...

      I've done a bunch of single-player mapping for Half-Life. One of the hardest things is the scripting - not the obvious, scripted sequence stuff, but the behind-the-scenes mechanics which makes the world come alive. AI works for the moment, while scripting is needed to set the scene, and to make the enemies more than simplistic automata. AI drives the scripting, and scripting drives the AI.

      But then, everyone's an armchair expert, and AI can do everything, release dates are always reached, and networks are impervious. I'd like to see these experts create a game...

  20. Let's just be honest here... by bigdady92 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They aren't saying anything more than "Yup we got somebody"

    They aren't saying for sure it was the people that stole it.

    They aren't saying how they got them.

    They are't saying what they took from them.

    They are only saying they got SOMEBODY but who knows if it's really the guys or someone that downloaded a copy of the game from some warez IRC site and just redistributed it.

    Besides, until we get full details that the game is released/on schedule/delayed it really won't matter too much.

    --
    Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
  21. Re:Points of interest by MikeXpop · · Score: 3, Interesting
    1. Bad that people steal code.
    Why is it on stories like these we see the word "steal" everywhere, but if someone uses the word "steal" or "theft" on a discussion about music piracy people go nuts? Is there a difference? Not trying to be a smartass, I'm just wondering
    --
    Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
  22. The truth is in here! by nazsco · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's all part of the show.

    The tutorial campaing in half life 2 will be the arrest, by swat, of 3 filty hackers living in some college dorm.

    If you've been to an E3 then you know what people at the gaming industry are capable of... bunch of reviewer whores...

  23. Harder penalties for Pirates? by untwisted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder what this means for the people who got arrested. It sounds like these guys come from all around the world, is this a chance for the pirate community to unite? By publically chasing these guys, there will be someone who tries to support them, or try to top them. As an open source supporter, I can see some pirates trying to make themselves martyrs by saying they were pushing open source, but even as the supporter of open source that I am, I see reasons for games to be closed source, and sold. Are these guys going to be made poster children for punishing pirates? It seems like a really good time to get some PR in the "If you pirate, you get your ass kicked" department. I'll be interrested to see what happens.

    --
    --untwisted
  24. Someone dropped a dime by Supp0rtLinux · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Notice that M$ hasn't made similar announcements about their recent source code theft problems? Probably cause they realize that for every hacker who use it to try and exploit a vulnerability, another hacker will rewrite part of the code and make it better, more stable, and more secure. Heck with Microsoft source code out there, Windows could one day be a stable, secure platform for people to migrate to instead of from

    1. Re:Someone dropped a dime by The+Bungi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I take it you get your news from Slashdot. I never would have guessed from your nick. Oh, and someone modded you up. Shocking!

      Score one for non sequitur opportunities to use "M$" in a discussion that has otherwise nothing to do with Windows or Microsoft. Mad propz.

      Make sure you post some "M$"-related thing in the next article about genetically modified Burmese Vampire Hedgehogs.

  25. The responsible parties were caught when... by shakamojo · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...they went into Fry's to try to buy an ATI Radeon 99000 XT+ video card, Intel P5 1.2 THz processor, and a Terabyte of RAM. The arresting agent was overheard saying, "I knew they weren't using that much computing power to play Unreal Tournament"

  26. Re:Points of interest by ihaddsl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I'm not mistaken, it was not a 'retarded programmer' but Gabe himself that got keylogged

    If you are targetted, virus scanners and patches won't stop a keylogger, perhaps a trojan scanner would have, but we don't know what keylogger was installed. After all if I go and code up a keylogger now, and install it on your PC, your virus scanners/ trojan scanners won't detect it.

    but yes they should have released the game already

  27. Good by pilkul · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm glad police cyber-crimes units are taking care of real criminals instead of wasting their time going after petty file-sharers. These people (if they are indeed the culprits) are the real problem --- illegally breaking into servers and stealing private information. They directly hurt the community of Half-Life fans by causing disorder at Valve, and they probably had a negative effect on the entire gaming industry as companies were forced to tighten their security policy.

    I'm a supporter of open source, but "forced open source" by cracking developers' computers and making their data public is just unethical. These people were real black hats; IIRC, they wrote cracking programs for their private use, specifically to crack Valve --- every sysadmin's worst nightmare. I hope crackdowns like this will get more prominent media attention in the future.

  28. Couldn't this (the leak)be a good thing for valve? by jb_02_98 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dont know... maybe I am just a little backwords in my thinking, but Valve could have used this to an advantage. Think about it. If they open source the engine but not the content, wouldn't that allow everyone to make a better engine (hence, easier patching, more features) but not have the content unless they bought it? To me, that looks like the way to go anyway. I can find a bunch of sourceforge projects that do just that. You need the content, not the engine. Valve should sell the content, not the engine. Stealing the code was wrong, and the theives should be punished, but sometimes a business needs to find an advantage to these things.

  29. Perhaps a show of appreciation... by miketang16 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Everyone here at Valve is once again reminded of how much we owe to the gaming community."

    As a show of appreciation, how about taking the not so difficult step of porting HL2 to the Linux platform? I could understand if the game was written completely in DirectX, but it supports OpenGL which is fairly portable from one OS to another. Oh well... wishful thinking...

    --
    -------
    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
    -- George Orwell
    1. Re:Perhaps a show of appreciation... by Zathrus · · Score: 4, Informative

      I could understand if the game was written completely in DirectX, but it supports OpenGL which is fairly portable from one OS to another.

      Er... HL2 is written in DirectX. To my knowledge (I never looked at the source leak) it does not support OpenGL whatsoever.

      You must be thinking of HL1, which was based on a heavily modified Quake1 engine. That did support OpenGL.

    2. Re:Perhaps a show of appreciation... by LurkerXXX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a show of appreciation? How do you know the guys that helped catch the guy use or even care about Linux?

  30. Re:Points of interest by Sajma · · Score: 3, Insightful
    3. A possible sign that Valve should hire more people so they can release it sooner.

    (standard mythical man-month rant elided)

    Bottom line: more people at this stage == bad idea.

  31. Re:Points of interest by happyfrogcow · · Score: 2, Informative

    3... yeah, throw more people into the project who have to take considerable time learning the system. good idea!

    5... developers shouldn't admin their own systems. game developers are not admin, admin are not game developers.

  32. Re:Someone. Different thing by maggern · · Score: 2

    A game and an operating system are not the same thing.

    The hackers can use the stolen hl2-code to make aimbots and wallhacks, which will be bad for all the online gamers!

    And lets face it, the multiplayer part is by far the most important for HL2. I'm sure the game itself will be good, but once you have played it, it's not interesting anymore.

    Online gaming just goes on and on and on, like counterstrike has done with half-life 1.

    Hackers make cheats for free, and someone will probably have to pay in order to patch those hacks.

  33. Has to be said... by FerretFrottage · · Score: 5, Funny
    If found guilty, suspects may get anywhere from 6 months to half-life in jail.

    --
    "Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
  34. Re:Couldn't this (the leak)be a good thing for val by stienman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Valve should license the engine and sell the game. At least if they want to make any money.

    They have a great piece of technology here. They are likely to make as much money (possibly more) licensing the engine to third parties as they are selling HL2

    This is how fisrt person shooters have always worked. There are really only three or four good engines licensed underneath a ton of games.

    -Adam

  35. More sources... by pegr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's a BBC story about a raid in SF... and here's a blog post about a geek in SF getting raided and having his gear taken by the FBI...

    1. Re:More sources... by rplacd · · Score: 2, Informative

      The SF geek was never charged, and eventually did get all his equipment back. No, these arrests are other people.

  36. A lesson learned, folks... by stienman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just having read about the fbi raid, I can't help but think that everyone should keep a few hundred small and/or dead hard drives around. Gotta keep them busy finding your 'stash'. They'd have to use a ream of paper to document all the computer equipment I have at this location.

    Of course, I didn't do anything illegal.

    -Adam

    1. Re:A lesson learned, folks... by elviscious · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Encrypted filesystem would be a better idea. You get your password/private key put onto a usb thumb drive that you have on your keychain. Everything works if you have the keychain in your usb port at boot. If not... it doesn't boot.

      Fairly easy to do too.

  37. Re:Couldn't this (the leak)be a good thing for val by Xaroth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering that a large portion of the money they will make from all of this will be the licensing of the underlying engine, no. Turning it into OSS would not only destroy their chances to make some *real* money off of the engine, it would also mean throwing years of work and untold sums of R&D money to the wind.

    Besides, there's no reason for a company like Valve to give away what is obviously worth a (perhaps not so) small fortune on its own. Now, maybe if their R&D work on the engine had come for free, *then* they could justify open sourcing it all. But, until the cost of developing such an engine approaches $0, don't expect anything like that to come any time soon.

    --
    That green slime had it coming.
  38. Re:Points of interest by 0racle · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Its quite simple really, people who wish to do something they're not supposed to, ie download music illegally, do not want you to think of it as stealing or theft because then they're theives, which is wrong. They attempt to justify this position by saying nothing *physical* was taken, they still have the original to release, therefore it was not stealing. Under these circumstances this use of the word 'steal' becomes important:
    Idiom: steal (someone's) thunder
    To use, appropriate, or preempt the use of another's idea, especially to one's own advantage and without consent by the originator.
    Anything taken, copied, downloaded and such without the owners permission is taking something you have no right to. That is Theft, plain and simple.
    Steal: To take and carry away, feloniously; to take without right or leave, and with intent to keep wrongfully; as, to steal the personal goods of another.
    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  39. This was a surprise! by u-235-sentinel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After reading the Valve blurb on HL2 I panned down the page and was shocked to see DNF mentioned

    Half way down on the right side

    DNF to be released in 2005? Wouldn't that be a shock. Personally I would be curious to see if it's any good compared to HL2 or Doom III. I may purchase it.. then again maybe not. The excitement isn't what it used to be for DNF :-)

    --
    Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
  40. there's some bash.org logic for you ;) by Fo0eY · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://bash.org/?104052

    <NES> lol
    <NES> I download something from Napster
    <NES> And the same guy I downloaded it from starts downloading it from me when I'm done
    <NES> I message him and say "What are you doing? I just got that from you"
    <NES> "getting my song back fucker"

    1. Re:there's some bash.org logic for you ;) by maggern · · Score: 2, Informative

      hahaha, thats really funny!! hehe

  41. Re:Couldn't this (the leak)be a good thing for val by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The current business model is that when the first game for the new game engine comes out, the mod tools to go with that engine ship as part of the game package. Anybody who has bought the game can create new levels or whole new game concepts.

    Once you have a good mod thrown together, you can release it however you want... but in order for your mod content to be playable your users are going to need a licensed copy of the game engine and that for the most part will mean purchasing the original game.

    If mods are really good, they can enter the retail channel by striking a deal with the original game writers. At that point, the original game content is replaced with the mods and sent into retail stores as its own box. Profit for all involved.

    It'd be nice if there was an OSS gaming engine of record to make the commercial game engines obsolete, but let's face it... those things are not easy to come up with. Furthermore, I'm not sure a "fair" multiplayer environment can ever be done with open source code... what would there to be to block people who have hacked the engine code to give them an autopilot shooter?

  42. Re:Points of interest by autopr0n · · Score: 2, Funny

    1. Bad that people steal code.

    Right, because good people never get arrested.

    3. A possible sign that Valve should hire more people so they can release it sooner.

    It don't work that way, son.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  43. After all by bonch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's really no way they could sit on a game for nine months reworking the code to break compatibility with potential cracks for the leaked code. It's neither that long of a project, nor an justifiable use of man-hours.

    After all, you have inside knowledge that people working on the project would have, and you just happen to know how long reworking all of Steam from scratch due to its leak would take, not to mention redoing Half-Life 2's network code.

    Seeing as how Counterstrike is such a bastion of non-cheating, there's no way Valve is taking a long time making sure the net-based Steam client is up to snuff after a source code leak on the Internet!

    Thanks for enlightening us, Miss Cleo.

    1. Re:After all by joeljkp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Steam has nothing to do with the graphics engine, and everything to do with networking. It's Valve's content distribution and matchmaking framework. Click me.

      --
      WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
    2. Re:After all by abandonment · · Score: 4, Interesting

      actually steam is their 'auto update', server browser, master server, and license key authentication system.

      if this was leaked, yes it would take a long time to rework, but it wasn't THAT broken, they decided to release counterstrike:conditionzero via it and no one seems to have said anything.

      flat out they are simply behind on their game - BUT they are paying the bill for it, not their publisher remember. valve pays 100% of development costs out of their pocket and gets really good royalty rates from their publishers as a result. This is the trick.

      by looking at their E3 2004 video, it is pretty easy to see how the game could be behind schedule - it could be called 'biting off more than you can chew' ;}

      --
      Gekido's Lair
    3. Re:After all by neocrono · · Score: 2, Informative

      IIRC, Steam is the graphics engine...

      Well, you do not RC. Steam is Valve's proprietary DRM (OOH BAD WORDS) content delivery system, relying upon a great many other people to provide bandwidth and servers for things like game updates, updated modules for their anti-cheat (yes, think PunkBuster), and more recently, entire games. They even have Bram Cohen working on it.

      If the protocols were to be blown too wide open--and source code theft will do that--it would arguably be (even more) trivial to fake the authentication process as you connected to a "secure" server, running as many cheats as you wanted.

      Of course, ask most Half-Life players, and they'll say VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) is worthless in its current state anyway. Let's hope they have something up their sleeve that'll coincide with or preempt the Half-Life 2 release, even if it's just extra effort doing updates to the modules. Somehow I think their attention has been elsewhere for a while.

    4. Re:After all by pilkul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's easy to say, but it's in the nature of games that they can't be both efficient and perfectly secure. Obscurity is the only option in this case.

    5. Re:After all by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So what you're saying is that there was a private key in the HL2 source which was compromised by the code release? And somehow, someone is expected to not have pulled this from memory? Your example doesn't make any sense, and certainly doesn't justify calling my comment "fucking stupid". But, I guess you know it all.

      If their goal is just to prevent wallhacks and aimbots before the game goes gold, and not to prevent them in general, then there is already no point whatsoever in buying HL2 unless you plan to play only on LAN or single player, because that means it will likely be hacked up just as much as half-life. Their goal should be to devise technologies that proactively prevent wallhacks and aimbots.

      BTW, there is no such thing as 'inherently secure' as long as your computer is connected to a network. You take that attitude, you get fucked hard by some 12 year old with a subseven.

      Thinking that there is no such thing as inherently secure is absolutely ignorant. There are ways to do things which are inherently insecure, and there are ways to do things which are inherently secure. Another way to put it is secure by design. We see endless security updates for microsoft products because they are legacy code bases and they need constant band-aids because they are doing something inherently insecure. The same is true of buffer overflows on Unix systems, if you don't use/create functions which are vulnerable to buffer overflows, you won't have buffer overflows. Yet, people keep doing it. I am at a loss to explain it, but I can at least explain the results of their failure to take security into account.

      A secure cryptosystem is secure even when the source is released. A game should be the same way, and it is; if having the uncompiled source code makes the game insecure, it doesn't - the game was already insecure.

      True, the need for security means moving more processing to the server. It may even mean the end of games which can use a non-dedicated server. Further, the server may need to be as CPU-intensive as the game itself, and maybe even moreso. But, that is a price which I (and millions of others) will be willing to pay if it actually brings a game resistant to cheating. You can rent time on professional gaming servers, and people all over the world have enough money to run full time servers. A game with no cheating will itself likely have allure enough to draw in business to replace any lost through people not willing to pay for the anti-cheating features.

      There is no such thing as entirely secure. There are, however, right and wrong ways to do things.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:After all by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Obscurity is the only option in this case.

      Well, no. There is one other option: strong hardware DRM, with severe criminal penalties for anyone producing a DRM circumvention device...

      And actually, that's the way online gameplay is going. Half-Life2 would NOT have obscurity anyway, regardless of the code leak. The hackers would just need a few extra days to reverse-engineer the machine code before writing the cheat-modules.

      Instead, most shooting games today are moving towards a solution like PunkBuster, which requires the player to allow a "trusted" 3rd party to remotely inspect your computer's memory to hunt for cheats. (In fact, Punkbuster now requires you to log in as the Windows "administrator" account before playing online!).

      But, Punkbuster is doomed to eventual failure. Someone will manage to run it within a completely emulated environment that looks legit, but still allows wallhacking or aimbotting. The only way to prevent that will be strong hardware DRM. (Which is already happening with X-Box and similar)

    7. Re:After all by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Security through obscurity" is a phrase, in english, that refers to a specific class of security designs - where the system is secure because the attacker doesn't know how it works. That type of system is frowned upon by security experts because of one or more of the following:
      A.) The user needs to know how the system works to operate it, thus making the system insecure to anyone who has ever been a legitimate user.
      B.) The system can be reverse-engineered, at which point the attacker will understand the system - thus breaking any security.
      C.) Obscuring the method of security prevents any security review, therefore making it impossible to know if the system is secure or not.

      In an obscurity-free security system you create a system where even if how it works is known security hasn't been comprimised. A good example of this would be key based cryptography. If two people who are communicating using a key based cyrptosystem (such as RSA, Blowfish, DES, etc) keep their keys safe, their message cannot be read by an attacker - even an attacker who knows how RSA works. If they reveal their keys, then anyone can read their messages - but the cryptosystem itself won't be broken; other people who have not revealed their keys will still have security.

      Now you seem to be claiming that since the keys have to be kept secret that key based cryptography is "security through obscurity". That's misusing a well-defined english phrase - which properly refers to the first class of security systems that I describe above.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    8. Re:After all by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It depends. If they are writing an aimbot that works entirely off of the I/O drivers, then you are correct - there's no answer to aimbots on general purpose computers.

      On the other hand, the aimbots actually work by reading and manipulating the program's memory state, and therefore have more information to work with than the user would have. Given that, there are a number of ways to secure games from that class of attacks, the simplest with current technology being PunkBuster.

      An example of another technique that can be used is having server-controlled constantly moving enviornments. If there is grass everywhere blowing in the wind, and insects flying around, and birds, etc, and there is no difference in the in-memory data structures between a bird and a player, then anyone who kills every bird in thier LOS in twitch-time is obviously using an aimbot.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    9. Re:After all by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 2, Funny



      > You can't go spoogeing every bit of information you have on the general public's face and expect them to not do anything with it.

      Course: NETWORK SECURITY 201
      Instructor: Asia Carrera

  44. Press Release by GarfBond · · Score: 2, Informative
    Swiped from halflife2.net:
    ARRESTS MADE IN RELATION TO HALF-LIFE 2 THEFT
    Online Community Tracks Down Hackers
    June, 10 2004 - Arrests have been made in several countries related to the break-in to Valve's network, theft of the Half-Life 2 source code, and release of the source code on the Internet.

    "Within a few days of the announcement of the break-in, the online gaming community had tracked down those involved," said Gabe Newell, Valve's CEO. "It was extraordinary to watch how quickly and how cleverly gamers were able to unravel what are traditionally unsolvable problems for law enforcement related to this kind of cyber-crime."

    Thousands of tips were received related to the criminal activities, with a core group of people who were able to analyze and backtrack from these clues. Subsequent to these individuals being identified, Valve has been working with various national authorities to prepare cases against those involved, leading to these arrests.

    "It was very uplifting to see how the community rallied and tracked these people down. Everyone here at Valve is once again reminded of how much we owe to the gaming community," added Mr. Newell.

  45. I doubt they arrested the real culprits by defile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They probably just rounded up people who happened to have the source code on their machines (ratted out by friends/enemies, etc.) and asked them where they got it. If they couldn't name names, they were further scrutinized. If they can't name names (practical joke gone awry?) have the "capacity to commit the crime" (ie, they're techies) they get charged. Follow the names that were named. Repeat until the number of people you've arrested sounds impressive.

    This makes great headlines and eases the PHB's nerves, but doesn't really solve anything. The original perpetrator may get away with it scott free, even.

    Just inventing details...

  46. So...how can you be arrested for stealing vapor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I didn't realize you could be arrested for "theft of vapor"...

  47. After all... by bonch · · Score: 2, Informative

    After all, illegally downloading someone else's intellectual property from their hacked server and downloading someone else's intellectual property from a random stranger are two totally different things!

    1. Re:After all... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Walking in someone's door and stealing their TV is legally different from breaking down someone's door (or otherwise bypassing their lock) and stealing their TV, at least here in the USA. Why should so-called piracy be any different?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  48. The delay is justified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can see a reason for a lengthy delay here. Say they were almost done coding the entire thing. Now, they get cracked, someone takes their source, and distributes a few copies.

    Can this code be deemed secure without a full audit of all the code? Could the crackers have reasonably included a backdoor in the program?

    If they were able to include some malicious code in HL2, and Valve were to distribute it without checking every last line, that would not only be a PR nightmare, but a rather serious security risk for their customers.

    Now, this may not be difficult, they could go to their last backup (if they have a recent one). They'd still have to rewrite quite a bit of code, which also takes more time.

    Not to mention the time it takes to lock down what appears to be a fairly insecure network before continuing (so it doesn't happen again during development).

    I can see how something like this could knock back the project a month or two easily. If they're already behind schedule, this just makes things worse.

  49. Re:Points of interest by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The other definition is the "guy in the street definition",

    To interpret "guy in the street" (or "pedestrian") word meaning, we must compare with commonly accepted uses of the word.

    Here are two sentences that are widely acceptable uses of "steal" regarding intellectual property:
    1. "He stole my invention"


    2. "She stole my song"
    In both cases, it is implied that something similar has happened: the victim was working on a project, and was spied on by another person, who went on to publish that idea and claim it as his/her own (preventing the actual author from getting credit for the work). "He/she stole my $INTELLECTUAL_PROPERTY" is an accusation of plagiarism, not theft.

    And the Half-Life 2 incident never included any attempt to claim authorship of that code.

    comes down to "taking stuff without paying".

    And then you get into what "taking" means. Ask a pedestrian if something has really been "taken" if the victim still has it... no, that's not "taking". It's more "taking a copy", or even just "seeing".

    So it becomes "seeing without paying". And the street guy will think "Oh, I see stuff on TV all the time, and never pay"

    The debate would be improved if people argued with the *message* of what was being said, not the *wording*.

    It's the MPAA/RIAA/BSA that causes that problem by using by basing their argument on that wording: "Stealing is obviously wrong. Copyright infringement is actually stealing. So copyright infringement is wrong too".

    Reminds me of the logic of a certain US president... "Terrorists are obviously evil. You guys are actually terrorists. So you are evil too"
  50. Re:Steaming pile of... by sir99 · · Score: 2, Informative
    It has happened to iD.
    Id Software, though, knows a few things about source code leaks. Several of the company's biggest games, including all of the Quake games, have seen their source code leak out. Last year, a playable build of the still-in-development Doom 3 hit the Internet.
    From here. I don't think they're confusing it with the GPL source releases, either.
    --
    The ocean parts and the meteors come down
    Laid out in amber, baby.
  51. coincidence? by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I find it funny that they had "all of a sudden" their source code stolen a bit after the date when they were suppose to release it (late september IIRC). I thought back then "ok this is just an excuse so they can finish the game".

    In winter time, the news about half life 2 ceased completely (nothing on planethalflife, etc.) and then we heard about the X800 & GF6800 cards. BOOM all ofa sudden, for the E3 (perfect moment), Half life 2 appears in full strenght! Now, in the month where half life 2 is suppose to come out, they say they finall caught those guys.

    I'm not sure what I should believe anymore but all I know is, they better not postpone the game again cause they're killing us!

    Anybody else here who thinks or thought like me on some points?

  52. Those blog link is not referring to HalfLife by nacs · · Score: 4, Informative

    The blog link is not referring to the Half Life raid. If I remember correctly, this blog post was made for a /. story posted a couple months ago about a different matter.

    --
    "I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
  53. Re:Points of interest by DragonMagic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is it different?

    Valve still has the code, the music companies still have their audio.

    How on earth is there a distinction? Because one needed another illegal means to get the files, while other it just downloading?

    If you call one theft, you have to call the other theft.

    --

    Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
  54. Re:Oh, please by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sure, copyright infringement is wrong, but that still doesn't make it theft! That's like saying rape and murder are the same thing, because they're both immoral too. Or like saying that Black Panthers and Neo-Nazis are the same because they're both militant racists. Or like saying apples and oranges are the same because they're both fruits! Or.... [continue ad nauseum]

    They're both wrong. They're both perhaps equally wrong.
    BUT THEY'RE STILL NOT THE SAME THING!!!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  55. New malicious code! A trojan worm! by TheDarkener · · Score: 3, Funny

    Several weeks ago, unconfirmed reports from Germany said the author of the Phatbot Trojan worm was also involved in the theft.

    Wow, a trojan worm?! I gotta re-take history class...

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  56. Points of interest that you missed by Tim+Browse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    7. What moron thinks there's such a thing as 100% security?

    8. What moron thinks you can ship software faster just by hiring more people?

    9. Maybe the 'retarded' programmer was actually trying to do his job and get the work done as soon as possible, and not reading bugtraq all the live long day or modelling attack trees so he wouldn't get owned.

    10. Cut Valve some slack. They are the victims here, despite what some might think.

  57. terrorists? by mcguyver · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If arrests were made outside of the US then it makes you wonder if some sort of terrorist type approach was used. I sympathize with Valve because someone hacked into their network and created problems for their product however at the same time it's uncomfortable to see the US's arm of the law go overseas, especially if the US turned this issue into an act of terrorism.

  58. Ounishment must fit the crime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    They stole a game prior to release. They can rot in prison till Duke Nukem Forever comes out.

  59. Re:Points of interest by Eric+Savage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IANAL, but actually it is different. If they broke in and stole a disk, then Valve has one less disk and a broken window. Many anti-RIAA slashdotters have repeatedly claimed that music copying isn't stealing because they didn't actually take or deprive someone of anything, they just copied it, which to me seems like what happened here.

    I'd have to say that copying (and subsequently distributing) the source code was a copyright violation just like downloading an unlicensed mp3. The network intrusion is also a crime. There are probably also laws which might consider unreleased source code to have "trade secrets", which would be yet another crime. Therefore the entire operation is far more serious than sharing a copied music file, but the root event is probably similar.

    --

    This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
  60. Re:Points of interest by Fallen_Knight · · Score: 4, Insightful

    valves code wasn't published, and to get it they had to hack (well trick) valve to get it.

    I would be the charges laid on the hackers would not be theft, corporate espionage, hacking, copyright violations, and such.

    Downloading music is much diffrence as its published, someone is offering you a copy (witch is why downloaders are kinda safe and uploaders are not)

    Also the money lost by each act is diffrent, vavle has taken a BIG hit in the $$ department because of the "theft", how much (if any) money the RIAA and co lose when a song is copied is debatable and might be a gain.

    That is why poeple get all up in arms about P2P being called tehft, but when it comes to valve and sounce code theft they tolerate and join in in calling it theft, its much more like theft and it did cause damage to valve in many ways, unlike P2P.

    and it STILL isn't theft, it is a multitude of other crimes, but NOT theft at all.

    if this was theft, there would be no such charge as corporate espionage. because all corporate espionage is is "stealing" information and ideas.

    Neither is theft. One is copyright violations, the other is corporate espionage/hacking/copyright.

  61. Re:Points of interest by caryw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Big difference.

    Mp3's are already ready for public consumption. The public already has access to the song, be it on the radio, a cd in a store, in a friend's car, whatever. By downloading that song you are getting a copy of the finished product that many others already have.

    Source code, however, is definitely not in a form for public consumption. Nobody should have the source code unless they're part of the project.

    Stealing the source code would be analogous to stealing the band that makes the music, not the finished product.

    band:mp3::souce code:binary

  62. There's something odd about this. by Phanatic1a · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Normally when the FBI or other agency busts a piracy ring, they're proud as hell about it. They talk about how many people they arrested, in however many countries they made the arrests, how many dollars in stolen software the pirates were responsible for, and so on, and so forth. Even when the FBI went after Skylarov at Adobe's request, the FBI was very proud of what they did, bringing such an eeeeeevul pirate to justice.

    In this case, it's Valve, the company that did something very stupid that allowed their code to get stolen, and not an actual law-enforcement agency, that's releasing all the vague details of the arrests, whereas all the FBI has to say is that "Yes, we made some arrests." No details on who, or where.

    That's very unusual. What's up with that?

  63. Source code theft and Half-Life 2 being late by Gabe+L.+Newell · · Score: 5, Informative

    One point worth clearing up is that the break-in and release of the source code is NOT why we didn't make the original September 30, 2003 release date, nor is it responsible for the fact that we haven't shipped yet. There were some significant costs associated with the break-in (not the least of which was the fact that everybody here was completely freaked-out and bummed), but the main reason we haven't shipped yet is that we have more work to do than we thought and it has taken longer to do than we thought. Gabe gaben@valvesoftware.com

    1. Re:Source code theft and Half-Life 2 being late by jr87 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks for clearing that up Gabe. Quite a few people (including myself) felt that the break-in was a bad excuse for delaying the game. I post to hopefully get more attention to your post

      anyway if I were you I would still buckle down b/c the linux /.ers are going to be flaming soon me thinks

    2. Re:Source code theft and Half-Life 2 being late by rallen911 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am just as bummed about HL2 being late as anyone, but what I don't get is why so many people are ATTACKING the developers. They are making a game to sell. Don't you think they want to release it as soon as possible? They announced a release date last summer. It didn't happen. GET OVER IT!!! They don't owe anybody anything except a good product when it ships. If people don't buy it, because they have lost interest, fine. Valve doesn't make as much money, and probably takes steps to prevent this type of thing in the future. My guess is everyone who is bitching about it will buy the game, and be totally blown away. Do you think they will eat a little crow when the time comes? NOPE. They will just be bitching about the next thing.

  64. Re:actually by YodaToad · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, I really think they meant HL1 was based on a highly modified quake 1 engine, just like they said. The site you link to even says Quake, not quake 2.
    Valve added a ton of stuff on the q1 engine, such as 16 and 24 bit rendering and mmx support as well as a skeletal animation system.
    If you want more info, check out http://www.planethalflife.com/half-life/guide/over view.shtm

  65. Re:Points of interest by MrScience · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What moron allows an email to install a keyboard sniffer on his computer. Anti-virus and patches take care of a lot of that. Not to mention the network guys should have caught that one quick.

    What?? A/V patches wouldn't do anything if it was custom written. And how the heck are network admins going to catch a few tiny URL posts (assuming the logger sent packets via port 8000) in all the traffic a big corporation generates.

    I mean, seriously... the moron may not even have had a good email client that let him know something was running-- and that is ignoring the various overflow bugs that could have been exploited.

    --

    You quitting proves that the karma kap worked. The most annoying of the whores shut up. --CmdrTaco

  66. Some of the story behind the leak and the arrests by __aailob1448 · · Score: 4, Informative

    About the leak: some german guy (the same guy who created phatbot, let's call him Hans) hacked into Valve computers. Hans then proceeded to brag about it and give some information about it to some friend of his (let's call him randomdude) over an IRC server operated by some members from a group I will call Entity. Members of entity intercepted the conversation and used the info in it to plant their own trojans on valve's computers, they then proceeded to leak the source and maybe some other stuff. Hans decided that he wouldn't let them have the credit for this and proceeded to release other stuff. Fast forward a few months. Hand emails Gabe and explains that he never meant to leak anything, that he just wanted to take a look at how a game was developped and that he was an amateur game developper himself as well as an expert on network security. He's a big fan of valve, blah blah blah. He explains how he broke into valve's computers and implies that he would like to get a job at valve as a network security asministrator. Follows a long exchange of emails in which he tells them about vulnerabilities still existing in their network and reveals he is german. He then agrees to a phone interview as Valve's people bait him into thinking they are considering hiring him and ends up arrested. I read most of the emails he exchanged with Valve before the arrest and Hans pretty much threw prudence and common sense out the window when dealing with valve. He must be kicking himself now.

  67. Re:Points of interest by lavaface · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't a proper analogy. Stealing the source to the game is more like stealing the master tapes for a music track. A closer comparison for downloading an mp3 (a finished product) would be downloading the game (a finished product.) The fact that the source code included copy protection measures only compounds the problem.

    --
    harmonious design
  68. Copying or theft? by Andy+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I swear this isn't flamebait!

    How come in Slashdot discussions about music/film piracy, we get hundreds of posts from people arguing that piracy isn't theft, it's "sharing". But in this thread, everyone's talking about how the source code was "stolen".

  69. Umm... just on the legal side. by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Someone either broke physically into their building, broke electronically into their servers, or illegally duplicated a legal copy (which is defined by law as theft)

    1) There was never any legal copy. There was one original held by Valve, and lots of illegal copies made.
    2) Even though the result of stealing a CD and pirating a CD is pretty much the same (less the cost of packaging), they go under different laws.

    Pirating is illegal. Stealing is illegal. That does not imply that pirating is stealing. This reminds me of a play by Ludvig Holberg (1684-1754): "A stone can not fly. 'Mor Nille' can not fly. Thus, 'Mor Nille' is a stone."

    IP is a nonsense concept, because it doesn't say if it's copyright, patent, trademark or otherwise. Likewise IP theft has no meaning in any legal sense, it's a buzzword for the media. It's trying to ascribe attributes to copyright violations that simply aren't real.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings