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Hosting Service Closes 3000 Blogs Without Notice

marmoset writes "Citing the high costs of running the free service, performance concerns, and health problems, Dave Winer closed down the weblogs.com hosting service without any prior notice. As many as 3000 sites are now inacessible, and the users who want to transfer their data elsewhere have to ask (politely) for it to be exported. As might be expected, reactions range from understanding to enraged. Netcraft has a report, too."

144 of 617 comments (clear)

  1. Not a Troll (for once...) by imadork · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, netcraft confirmed that *weblogs are dying?

  2. TOS by BodyCount07 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The real question is whether or not this is allowed in the TOS. If it is, well than, that's how the cookie crumbles, users should have been making backups.

    If it is not allowed by the TOS than users have a right to be outraged.

    1. Re:TOS by saihung · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only in such a sick culture could the terms of a contract take precedence over common courtesy. It would've cost him so much to give people a couple of days to get their shit in order?

    2. Re:TOS by big+tex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it is not allowed by the TOS than users have a right to be outraged.

      No.

      IANAL, but for any sort of agreement to be binding, there has to be some 'consideration'. What does the host get for hosting your blog? Nothing? Then the response - the only one that should be expected- is 'sucks to be you.'

      --
      I think I need a new sig here.
    3. Re:TOS by EvanED · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "It would've cost him so much to give people a couple of days to get their shit in order?"

      Actually, maybe. I don't know his hosting situation, but if even a quarter of the people had gone to back up their posts, that's a significant amount of extra traffic. Notice would have probably been have to be given out at least a week in advance to avoid a massive rush.

    4. Re:TOS by TeraCo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, it's easy to talk about costs when they aren't YOUR costs to be paying, isn't it.

      --
      Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
    5. Re:TOS by JPriest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but that cost would likely be offset when people read that only the free accounts were nuked. Non-free accounts were not nuked, so many of the free users probably would have been willing to pay to upgrade their service in order to keep it.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    6. Re:TOS by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And it's even easier to talk about costs when you are part of the force that is increasing them as we speak: I refer to the slashdot effect.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
    7. Re:TOS by prockcore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, it's easy to talk about costs when they aren't YOUR costs to be paying, isn't it.

      The company I work for used to be an ISP (as well as many other things). We decided the ISP (dialup and DSL) wasn't making money so we sold it.

      But we had the common courtesy to set up forwards for all 30k of our subscriber's email, and keep their personal websites up and home directories for over a year.

      Even to this day, we still host local non profits' websites for free (we don't accept new ones, but we'll continue to host the ones we did accept back in our ISP days)

    8. Re:TOS by _KiTA_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obviously you're new to this whole intra-web thing.

      People don't pay for stuff they get for free. If he had announced that he was closing free accounts, they would have slammed him HARD while they backed up their stuff, then ran off and found a new free host to mooch off of and left him high and dry with an outrageous bandiwdth bill.

      You think he wasn't pushing them to try and get them to sign up for pay accounts already? The number one rule of the internet -- users are absolute resourch leeching mooches.

    9. Re:TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I used to run a business but it began to eat into my "judge people on Slashdot" time.

    10. Re:TOS by sql*kitten · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If he had announced that he was closing free accounts, they would have slammed him HARD while they backed up their stuff, then ran off

      It depends on how much effort was involved, not just to export the data and import it somewhere (performing whatever conversion is required) but to communicate the new URL to everyone.

      A modest fee would most likely have been paid, especially if new functionality came with pay accounts. Look at Livejournal - you can sign up for free, but paying users get more features. In fact Slashdot could learn a lot from Livejournal.

    11. Re:TOS by hachete · · Score: 2, Interesting

      consideration - but also goodwill. Business runs a lot on goodwill - i.e. can I pay this bill later? sure, we know and trust you - that sort of thing. In this case, Dave had 2 choices: give a warning or nuk'em. With a warning, he may have gained customers. He would still have lost some good will but by going nuclear, and with some shabby *audio* instructions, he's lost a whole lot more goodwill, gained lots of hostile reviews etc. This isn't good business - but isn't this joker some kind of half-arsed academic these days?

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
    12. Re:TOS by tf23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Morally, if the guy is really dealing with personal illness, I feel for him, I have dealt with illness in my family and myself and that sucks - but it doesn't excuse screwing over 3000 people.


      That's bullshit. If the guy's sick, the guy's sick. Simple as that. What he provided for people was/is for _free_. If they didn't have enough common sense to backup their own data and keep copies of stories they posted, it's their own fault.

      But railing on the guy because he's sick and can't provide the quality free service that he did for a time (years? I don't know) seems extremely rude.

      It's not like you've got the majority of these 3k people volunteering to come to his house and help him out for a few months to hopefully get over this crisis, no?

      I'll agree with you that it could have been handled differently. Very differently infact - could have been better, could be worse (I imagine him pulling the powercord on the box and mumbling like cartman "screw you all") heh

    13. Re:TOS by transops.net · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Let me begin by saying I understand the emotion behind your comment. This is a really sad turn of events for anyone who hosted an active blog on Dave's network. That said, let's look at this from a capitalist (take the emotion out of that word, just focus on its abstract definition) perspective.

      Dave Winer has provided a portion of his network resources to the Internet community at large for several years, manifested by our (now terminated) ability to host a blog for free on his systems. Note that I'm not attempting to portray Dave as an altruistic fellow, although I do in fact think he's a great guy. We can't escape the fact that he achieved a significant amount of promotion for Manilla in trade for our no-cost use of his system. I guarantee you that over the term of the arrangement, he gained far more from the deal in mindshare than he spent in bandwidth.

      Unfortunately, nothing in this world is static. People are still getting older, stocks go up and down, and Dave's life (both personal and business, however little separation there may be between the two) isn't exempt from this rule. Before we rush to cry foul at his decision, let's look at some background information:

      (1) Dave Winer is widely recognized as an Internet communication pioneer, having been an early designer of a useful system for letting people people manage online content. Depending on your current needs and budget, there may be better products out there, but his company's work remains relevant.

      (2) The whole Manilla concept borrowed from earlier ideas, and became a model that others would follow in turn when they developed other CMS environments. This indicates a protracted period of skilled effort on Dave's part. Which leads us to the conclusion that...

      (3) Dave Winer is most likely an intelligent man who shows every sign of continuing to live in a fair manner. His recent statements on the issue at hand seem well thought out and polite, which leads me to believe the health problems he references aren't related to mental disease. If his mind is still intact, he probably had very good reasons for forgoing public notification. We should remind ourselves that...

      (4) Although the TOS for this hosting most likely hold the responsible parties harmless in the event of service discontinuance, there is always the possibility of some squirrely blogger getting notions of litigation in a moment of emotional weakness. Unspecified damages for emotional pain and suffering due to inability to dredge up the past by perusing their blog, or some other such title. It's unlikely. but possible for America's rather litigious populace. Remember the Fast Food Makes Us Obese lawsuits.

      Remember, attorneys always give the same opening advice to their clients: Never admit culpability, and try not to say anything at all without first passing it through Big_Law_Firm.pl for content filtering. Even then, it's usually best to use Pricey_PR_Group.php to speak publically about your actions. Reference the Santa Cruz Operation for mastery of this art.

      To sum it all up, let the inner Libertarian (no emotion, just the concept) in you shine by Making Daily Backups of anything important. A few lines of bash or perl scripting with a dash of UNIX utils can prevent years of therapy and rehab. As an added bonus, you get the ability to feel good about yourself by contributing your techniques to the community while you deposit checks from your clients who just *love* your new online backup service.

      Thus, personal responsibility helps us keep smart people out of the field of dentisty by preventing excessive gnashing of teeth. Less demand in that field equals more folks to give us free hosting services, right? More personally, since everyone wants to feel special in their own way, I feel special knowing my dentist doesn't feel inspired to name his next luxury car after me. It ain't much, but anything that helps me sleep better is well worth the effort.

    14. Re:TOS by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Informative

      well, the guy certainly has no problems linking to an AUDIO POST hosted on HARVARDS EXPENSE.

      he just created something he doesn't want to a) take care of b) give to somebody else.

      -

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    15. Re:TOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must really suck at using Google. I've never ended up on a blog while looking for something else...

    16. Re:TOS by Havokmon · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It depends on how much effort was involved, not just to export the data and import it somewhere (performing whatever conversion is required) but to communicate the new URL to everyone.

      A modest fee would most likely have been paid, especially if new functionality came with pay accounts. Look at Livejournal - you can sign up for free, but paying users get more features. In fact Slashdot could learn a lot from Livejournal.

      I run a free/paid email service - vfemail.net. You're welcome to monitor the main page and watch the number of free subscribers vs paid subscribers, but the paid users are pretty steady at 28 - while the number of free signups has just crossed the 10,000 mark :/.

      People are cheap. If it wasn't for Google ads, I'd be dead in the water.

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
    17. Re:TOS by sql*kitten · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People are cheap.

      But what do paid users get that free users don't? What is it that drives a free user to upgrade? That's what needs to be studied to improve your conversion rate.

      Some of Livejournal's stuff is seemingly trivial - for example, paid users can upload a bigger selection of icons to attach to each post. But, it turns out that a lot of Livejournal users are willing to pay in order to have the "perfect" icon on hand for whatever they're posting about. This doesn't even increase the bandwidth bill, since an icon would be attached anyway, and it only modestly increases the storage bill (they're only 100x100 JPEGs). Things like this mean they don't have to bother with banner ads at all.

    18. Re:TOS by joshmccormack · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I run a free/paid email service - vfemail.net. You're welcome to monitor the main page and watch the number of free subscribers vs paid subscribers, but the paid users are pretty steady at 28 - while the number of free signups has just crossed the 10,000 mark :/.

      People are cheap. If it wasn't for Google ads, I'd be dead in the water.


      Great business lesson here - don't expect people to pay:
      • Unless they have to
      • There are no other options

      And make your money off of their greed - sell ads. Their laziness - sell extra space or options like backups, saving sent messages, etc.
    19. Re:TOS by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So stop offering to them for free. I don't advertise at all and still have more than 28 people using my $5 per month email hosting deal. I've also discovered that people who pay a fair price for things are less likely to make fantastic demands than people who don't pay anything. Funny how that is.

      Incidentally, there are plenty of things I do offer for free (my photos are in the public domain, for example, and I donate bandwidth to several projects). But since maintenance of my webserver depends on bandwidth being paid for, I don't screw around with free-hosting-for-everybody. All you're going to attract is dumb leeches who only know, only CARE, that they aren't going to pay a lot for that muffler.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    20. Re:TOS by sugarmotor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your saying Adwords actually produces income for you? Would you be able to say how much? Stephan

      --
      http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
  3. Backups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why would you trust any hosting company to keep the only copy of your data, if it were all that important to you?

    1. Re:Backups by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In this case, suppose I don't actually own my own computer?

      In general, suppose I'm renting storage space? Suppose I've got terabytes of data that I won't need for very long, but I need somewhere to store it NOW? Obviously I can't afford backups, and I have to trust someone else with my data.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    2. Re:Backups by stilwebm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The users have varying level of backups, but the biggest issue is that no one can find the new blog now. The weblogs.com domain was integral to these blogs, much like blogger.com, typepad.com, etc. The weblogs were found at hostnames like booknotes.hammock.com, rex.weblogs.com, delphi.weblogs.com, etc. Users very much could have used an opportunity to say what their new URL was. Dave Winer decided that was too much work [MP3 audio post he made].

    3. Re:Backups by ameoba · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From the sound of things, I doubt that the guy who was hosting everything would have much of a problem handing over the domain to somebody who'd be willing to put the server back up or at least provide redirection to the new homes of the sites.

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
    4. Re:Backups by el-spectre · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, in that case you shoulda kept it on floppies or something.

      Losing stuff w/o backups sucks. We've all been there. Still, if you know better and don't do it, you're not gonna get much love from slashdot.

      --
      "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
    5. Re:Backups by ziggy_zero · · Score: 5, Funny

      The real question is, where are bloggers going to go to whine about this????

      --
      I belong to the ______ generation.
    6. Re:Backups by mopslik · · Score: 5, Funny

      Suppose I've got terabytes of data...

      Well, in that case you shoulda kept it on floppies or something.

      Please insert disk 457,982,221,010 of 695,763,100,218 to continue...

    7. Re:Backups by l810c · · Score: 2, Funny
      The real question is, where are bloggers going to go to whine about this????

      Slashdot?

      The site does seem kinda slow from the Whiney Blogger effect.

  4. Newsflash... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When your data is on someone else's servers, and you don't have any of that data properly backed up, then you are completely at their mercy when it comes to being able to use it or losing it entirely. This is especially true when the service that they are supplying is being provided for free.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Newsflash... by pongo000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Now imagine this was SourceForge...

    2. Re:Newsflash... by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've got many a dead page from google cache it works wonders, well unless it's hosting service goes down again.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    3. Re:Newsflash... by FrYGuY101 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a MINOR participant in one SF project, I'll gladly point out that I keep a local copy of the source. If SF went tits-up (God forbid), I'd be quite saddened, but I wouldn't blame SF if I also lost my copy of the source. It'd be MY damn fault for not taking precautions.

      --
      "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."

      - Seneca
    4. Re:Newsflash... by geoffspear · · Score: 4, Informative

      Especially since Sourceforge points out to anyone starting a new project, very clearly, that they are responsible for backing up all of their project's data.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    5. Re:Newsflash... by Ztras · · Score: 2, Informative

      [People whining because their free beer was turned off] > Now imagine this was SourceForge... And that is what mirrors are for... http://mirror.optusnet.com.au/ http://ftp.heanet.ie/ etc, as Google will tell you. Plus, hopefully a good project manager does not trust a free service for a non-trivial project. Code backups anyone?

    6. Re:Newsflash... by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Insightful


      When your data is on someone else's servers, and you don't have any of that data properly backed up, then you are completely at their mercy when it comes to being able to use it or losing it entirely. This is especially true when the service that they are supplying is being provided for free.

      What part of the above is so difficult to comprehend? Surely someone that has important writings or content also has it on their local hard drive, no? If it's been crawled, Google cache or the Wayback Machine might be able to recover some, but there's no sympathy for not backing-up stuff that's important. Then again, how many blogs are actually "important"?

    7. Re:Newsflash... by Huogo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I pay for hosting, and I still do backups at least once/week (mainly for the database backups). Anyone who keeps anything on the 'net should know that its an unstable place, and thing can dissapear at a moment's notice. I don't trust anything to be kept securely to the web, and no one else should either.

    8. Re:Newsflash... by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anything on a web server is most likely on a hard disk... And hard disks are considered stable because their data doesn't disappear when the computer is powered down or reboots, but they don't last forever. All HDs have moving parts, and eventually some part of that drive will fail physically making your data nearly inaccessable. It's not a question of if but when. It will happen. Expect it to happen about 4-5 years after the drive first put into service. You should see this coming, not be caught unexpectedly by it.

    9. Re:Newsflash... by mabinogi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      that's not what he was refering to...he was refering to the tendacy for the hard drive containing your data to find itself being auctioned off after the company that used to own it went under....expect it to happen about 6 months to a year after the company is formed.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    10. Re:Newsflash... by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When ePhysician.com turned out it's corporate lights it kept the servers running (a testament to the developers there -- the system ran over 6 months without any maintenance and the only way people found out the company was liqudated was when they attempted to add new users, delete existing users or update pharmacy fax numbers and no one ever returned a phone call). One day my company received a call from a prestigious ePhysician customer (the head of psychiatry at an Ivy League School) based on our company's website being linked as a eP partner; the call was directed to me as I was the CTO of our company (CTO and the "reboot monkey"; it was a small company and I really was the lead web app developer but someone needed to fill the C' role). The caller was trying to reach eP and I told him they were out of business and all their assets were on the table for a fraction of their cost. He was shocked and explained that he needed his records for legal reasons (prescription data is critical to prescribers). I told him to quickly and carefully use the standard report tools to pull the data down for archiving.

      I develop ASP-style applications. Never would I want to put my customers in a situation like ePhysicians did or Dave Winer has. However, there is still the very real risk that your data on others servers will suddenly not be available to you. This is true of Hotmail, Yahoo!Mail, Source Forge, GMail.google.com, your ISP, your bank, or my stuff.

      Watch out for your interests and don't assume.

      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  5. Umm... by dotslashconfig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So let me get this straight... He didn't know even 1 day in advance that rising costs and other technical/logistical difficulties were going to force him to shut down service? That seems rather ridiculous and is a huge oversight on his part. To not even warn people that he was having difficulties... it's mind boggling. I'm sure someone would have come to his aid, or at least tried to organize a fund to assist in maintaining service.

    Honestly, though... to not see this coming even a few days in advance? That's very disappointing.

    1. Re:Umm... by EvanED · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If he was having problems already I'm not sure a mad rush of 3000 people trying to back up their data would have exactly helped...

    2. Re:Umm... by dotslashconfig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I mean is... if he'd given people a little more time to examine the situation - even a week would have been sufficient - people who liked his service might have tried to set up a fund-raising activity of some variety. I'm sure his users wouldn't have minded contributing a dollar or two in order to continue service.

      People just needed a small amount of time to prepare, even if they wouldn't have the chance to back up their data.

      In my experience, people tend to react more favorably towards disappointing situations if they have fair warning. People are a little more understanding if they have the chance to react to this news, as opposed to suddenly just seeing their information disappear.

      That's why "trading curbs" were implemented on the New York Stock Exchange. People needed time to react to news that could potentially cost them money/time. It's a lot easier to deal with losses if you either see them coming, or are given a fair chance to recover from drastic swings. (A little off-topic, but I think this relates).

    3. Re:Umm... by rimu+guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He has 3000 people using the service. It would have taken them some time to sign up. He would have had ample info about the cost of running the service and providing support for it.

      I can only deduce that Mr. Winer's personal circumstances have changed dramatically, and that is what is causing the problem.

      And I agree with the grandfather post. There should have been warning about the service change. He should have let people know they had a week or a month to move things off the server. There would have been an increase in server load. But it would have been manageable.

      ---
      Yep, we host blogs

    4. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, let's suppose you're Dave Winer. Stay with me here.

      You know that no matter what you do to close down the site, you will be flamed and people will hate you. This is true for anybody, not just Dave Winer. Imagine if slashdot closed up one day. I bet the non-paying slashdotters would complain the loudest.

      And you know the traffic will go UP immediately.

      You just don't want the hassle.

      Also, remember you're Dave Winer and you have Dave Winer's.. let's say "unique" personality.

      The only logical thing to do is close it up, wait a few days for the dust to settle, and then deal with the sycophants, leaving the rest to rot.

    5. Re:Umm... by SuperDuperMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ultimately the service was free. People who bitch about the quality of free service should ask themselves why anyone who offers them a free service should be obligated to provide them with a level of service they could expect from a pay service.

    6. Re:Umm... by sakusha · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fundraising isn't the issue. Winer's a millionaire, he just sold his house in CA. According to the Wired Magazine biography of Winer, he paid $2 million for a house in an exclusive neighborhood, next to Joan Baez's house. Winer is sitting on millions of bucks, it's not like he couldn't afford to pay for hosting. He just decided he no longer wanted to, so he killed the blogs of everyone who wasn't his buddy (i.e. Searls). So if you haven't sucked up to Winer sufficiently, your blog is toast. Such are the tribulations of dealing with millionaire dilletantes.

      Winer is freaking out. His "fellowship" at Berkman is over, he's got no job and nobody wants him around anymore, even his sycophants are no longer willing to help him find his next gig.

    7. Re:Umm... by cHiphead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      its like setting up a community service to help people store books, then one day without notice saying 'fuck you all, ive lost too much money on this' and chaining the doors and openly telling people they have to kiss your ass and not ever complain if they want you to bring their books outside for them. at a future date. maybe. because your an asshole.

      that about sums it all up, and i even read all articles/blogs/links/bullshit.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    8. Re:Umm... by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 3, Interesting
      So if you haven't sucked up to Winer sufficiently, your blog is toast. Such are the tribulations of dealing with millionaire dilletantes.

      Well shoot. I've already doled out 3 mod points here, but I'm going to give them up so I can post. Apologies to the 3 people who see their nice "+1 Informative" mods vanish.

      Look, I think your post (and many of the posts here) are overly harsh. They should be harsh to an extent, because something bad has happened that didn't have to happen. Dave made a mistake. But to rip into the guy as if we're entitled? C'mon.

      For those of you haven't bothered to listen to Dave's audio blog, he explains exactly the criticisms leveled here. Does the /. readership understand that Dave hasn't worked at Userland for years? He saw Userland wanted to dump the blogs and tried to move it to his own private server. This worked poorly. In the audio blog he explains that if he put the server up as-is and gave people 2 weeks to download the sites, it would have hammered his server, which was already in use for other things. You might say he should have fixed the server, and his response is already in the blog -- it would have taken a big time investment, and he's not healthy enough to do it.

      I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some criticism. If you listen to his audio blog, you'll get the clear impression that he's tired of trying to help people who act as hyper-critical (about free stuff!) as some of our Slashdot posters. That's his right of course, but he could exit more gracefully, I'm sure. And posting a 3.5 meg audio blog has to hammer his server almost as much as 3000 site backups would. So there's weird stuff. But the real issue ought to be Userland. Why couldn't they host the site for 2 more weeks? They have healthy employees. They might have even been able to turn it into a business opportunity if they made it easy to migrate to Manila or another paid service.

      Give the rich boy a break. He tried to do right, it didn't work out, and now he wants to stop. OK. Ask him for your blog back, and when you get it, stay the hell away from centralized servers run by a single entity. Host your own. Use my low-end phpBB Blog, or Bloxom, or anything else. Some of these blog tools are even easy.

    9. Re:Umm... by allism · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't remember the fundraiser Wikipedia had to go through several months ago to buy new hardware? They ended up raising the $20K they needed and then some...

    10. Re:Umm... by sakusha · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You seem to be operating under some mistaken assumptions. Winer still owns Userland. He is being disingenuous when he says he no longer runs Userland. Maybe he doesn't hold the official title of CEO, but he still owns the company, and it is operated under his direction.
      You also seem to be assuming that this hostility towards Winer is unjustified because he gave out these services for free. I assure you from personal experience that Winer treats you like shit even if you're a paying customer.
      You also seem to believe it when Dave says he's getting out of the hosting business. Wrong again. He's just killing off the FREE weblogs (with the exception of his suck-up buddies like Searls). His servers still host the paid customers of Radio Userland, hosted on radio.weblogs.com, so he can't dump all of weblogs.com like he claims he's doing. The big question is why did he have all those websites moved to HIS server if they were paid customers of Userland?
      You also seem to think these criticisms are unnecessarily harsh. I disagree. Winer is notorious for baiting people, then editing the exchange of messages. His usual tactic is to say something offensive, then someone responds in a similarly hotheaded manner, then Winer edits his original remark to something innocuous, so it seems like the response is a completely flaming response to a polite remark. So it is not too surprising that people jump at the chance to respond to Winer's insanity in a forum that isn't controlled by Winer. These remarks are quite civil by Winer's standards of conduct.

    11. Re:Umm... by thedillybar · · Score: 2, Insightful
      He didn't know even 1 day in advance that rising costs...

      If he would've known 1 day ago, he probably would've shut the service down 1 day ago.

      It's not a matter of when he found out; it was a matter of saving his ass as soon as he did. Who can blame him?

    12. Re:Umm... by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe he doesn't hold the official title of CEO, but he still owns the company, and it is operated under his direction.

      Well, in his blog he says, "I have not worked there for over two years." If he's actually lying or stretching the truth a whole lot, then you're right, he's a dick. If he's telling the truth and you're just so pissed at him that you have to get one more pot-shot in, then you're a dick. Somebody's a dick, I don't know who. But the point is that it doesn't matter anymore. Why? Because he's getting out. OK? If you're so upset with his handling of free accounts, well, congratulations. Dave is marginalizing himself and providing a perfect opportunity for others to come in and do better. So cheer up. Get your blog back on July 1st, wave goodbye to him, and let him walk away.

      You also seem to believe it when Dave says he's getting out of the hosting business. Wrong again.

      So what if he has paid hosting? Take your business elsewhere! Why stress yourself out interacting with someone who "treats you like shit even if you're a paying customer"? Stop being a paying customer!

      So it is not too surprising that people jump at the chance to respond to Winer's insanity in a forum that isn't controlled by Winer.

      Fair enough. But it's also fair for other people to wonder where exactly the problem is. Free or paid, the solution is in front of you.

  6. Wired article by Tekmage · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wired has an article up as well, with a bit more detail.

    --
    --The more you know, the less you know.
    1. Re:Wired article by skaffen42 · · Score: 5, Funny

      From the Wired article: "I just have my fingers crossed that my girlfriend gets her blog back," said software programmer Tom Gortell. "She feels like someone just sucked out her brains. I don't get it, it's just an online journal, right? But she feels like her entire life has been stolen."

      The guy works as a programmer and he never told her to make backups? And then he tells Wired that he doesn't get why she is upset. Somebody better e-mail him the number of a good florist.

      But seriously, he should have told her to make backups. Free service. You get what you pay for. What more can you say?

      --
      People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
    2. Re:Wired article by randyest · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it means your DNS cache is hosed or something -- the link works fine for me.

      Blogging pioneer Dave Winer unexpectedly closed Weblogs.com, his free blog-hosting service, on Sunday, leaving thousands of bloggers without access to their blogs.

      Blogs affected by the shutdown now redirect to a generic message posted by Winer.

      Wireless Hot Spot Directory

      Today's the Day. Some bloggers are screaming that the shutdown is a serial "blog murder." Other bloggers slammed the people whose blogs have vanished from the Internet, saying that no one should expect continuity from a free service.

      "Oh boo hoo ... if you forked over the money for hosting like any serious site owner, you wouldn't now be pissing and moaning about 'blog murder,'" one comment read. "Putting your site on a CentralizedShinyWidget like weblogs.com or blogger.com is like moving into a house built of sugar cubes in the tropics, and then crying foul when the monsoon comes."

      "So because it's free, people should bite their tongues about having their content wiped off the face of the earth with no warning?" responded another blogger, posting anonymously. "He couldn't even give them 30 minutes' notice to back stuff up?"

      And many bloggers simply posted messages thanking Winer for the memories and politely requested a copy of their blog's contents.

      In an audio message posted late Monday explaining his reasons for the shutdown, Winer cited the financial costs of hosting the sites, technical difficulties in moving the blogs to a new server, stress and personal health issues as the reasons for the sudden shutdown.

      Winer, who has offered free hosting to bloggers for the past four years, has promised to make exportable copies of blog contents available to the blogs' owners at their request. He says it will take at least two weeks to provide copies of the blogs' contents.

      Meanwhile, the affected bloggers cannot access their work, a situation that angers many, who said they believed they should have been given advance notice that the Weblogs service would be terminated before their sites became inaccessible.

      "The transition for the bloggers and the readers would have been far smoother and less painful if they had been warned," wrote David Weinberger, author of the Cluetrain Manifesto, on his blog. "(But) Dave's point in his audio blog is that the transition wouldn't have been smooth from the host's point of view, and that a sudden cut-off was necessary.

      "Second, why the two-week wait? That's going to be painful for the thousands of bloggers, many of whom are my friends," Weinberger continued. "Again, I assume that Dave is correctly estimating the amount of work it will take to package up several thousand sites. If I thought he were either incompetent or making people wait out of meanness, I'd flame him."

      "I just did the best I could," said Winer, in his audio message. "This is not a company here ... this is a person. To expect company-type service ... that's just not going to happen."

      Winer also added in his audio message that he believed no matter how he had handled the shutdown, people would have complained.

      "On the Internet ... it hardly matters how well you do something, certain things happen and people will jump up and down. Just accept that," Winer said.

      But some bloggers said that a little advance notice was all they asked of Winer.

      "This can't be a sudden whim, Dave had to know this was in the works." said blogger Nancy Velton. "I'd have appreciated a chance to make copies of my material, and move my blog to another service. My entire life is in that blog."

      Winer, a founder of Userland software, a provider of website and weblog publishing tools for organizations and individuals, had been hosting the blogs on Userland's servers. He left the company several years ago. After a recent change of management, U

      --
      everything in moderation
    3. Re:Wired article by GileadGreene · · Score: 4, Funny
      Some bloggers are screaming that the shutdown is a serial "blog murder."

      Seems more like parallel murder to me, since it all happened at once...

    4. Re:Wired article by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No offense taken. I'm a programmer, and half the people I see in this line of work are incompetent burger-flippers. Who only got hired because some "smart" beancounter thought he's cleverly saving money by hiring the cheapest monkeys. Except they have mental trouble even tying their shoelaces, forwarding emails or cutting and pasting.

      (True story, and I swear to God I'm not making it up: every month I have to clean up my overflowing inbox at work, because some "programmer" mailed me a 24 bit full-screen screenshot to show me an error message displayed in telnet, or in whatever log viewer they were using. It takes work to teach them to copy and past that error message. What took the cake, though, was seeing an attached 24 bit full-screen screenshot of... an email in Outlook. Poor man's substitute for "forward".)

      I would, however, disaggree with the assessment that even these are "just above" field service and helpdesk. You haven't seen the service and helpdesk, then. _Some_ of those make the "programmers" above look like brilliant geniuses.

      The proper IT people here gave us PCs with Matrox drivers installed... and a Nvidia card. And the wrong IDE drivers. Anything except installing from the CD with the backed-up standard NT4 config is _miles_ over their head.

      If you call them because your Outlook '97 (corporate standard, you see) crapped and now throws an error message on startup, as happened to a couple of co-workers, they'll want to format the HDD and reinstall that holy standard CD.

      I swear to God I'm not making it up.

      So basically, yeah, I'm with you there. Just because someone's job says "programmer", doesn't automatically mean that they can actually program or administer a computer. Or what a backup is.

      Don't get me wrong. I also do know a whole bunch of good competent programmers. But also about 3 times as many whose only merit was being shameless enough to lie to an incompetent HR droid.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  7. Crystal Ball by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can forsee quite a few people complaining about this in their weblogs.

    Oh...wait...

  8. Audio recordings by AirLace · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most interesting thing is that Winer announced the withdrawal of service through a poorly recorded audio file. Could it be that he's been struck down with RSI?

    Whatever the case, I think he could have shut down the service gracefully, perhaps handing it over to a friend or a third party rather than abruptly pulling the plug. But at the end of the day, he's only damaged his own reputation -- it's not the end of the world for anyone.

  9. And this is bad news? by jm92956n · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just saw this over at Halley's place and went to Tom's blog and read Dave's post on Tom's private weblog. Tom is traveling back from Mexico, not sure if he's landed yet, but I doubt that the first thing on his mind is how hard Dave Winer wants his old Manilla users to blow him in this special "one-time" offer.

    Good riddance! I don't understand how one could possibly read such crap.

    I scratched my nose a little and then depressed the 'W' key, knowing full well the corresponding character would henceforth be displayed in its full glory!

    --
    An effective signature identifies a particular user amongst a base of thousands.
  10. Ironic by shadowmatter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Having your blogging service totally shut you out without notice finally seems like the perfect thing to blog about.

    - sm

    1. Re:Ironic by Rolo+Tomasi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Blog to the hand, cause the server ain't listening.

      --
      Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
  11. before the winer-hating starts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I remember when Winer started the site. It was Userland released their blogging software a while back, before blogging was really popular. I thought it was mostly to show off the software and let people "get started". It was not meant to host high-traffic public sites.

    Winer says that he will export the sites after July 1. I don't know why he insists "after July 1", or why he didn't say "I am closing them down in X days" but he's pretty stubborn sometimes.

    So, I'm not really surprised. I personally wouldn't depend on a third party storing my site for free, without even a local backup.

    1. Re:before the winer-hating starts... by Zibblsnrt · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Winer says that he will export the sites after July 1.

      Provided people ask in a specific, formulaic manner which betrays no unhappiness at the decision. Power trip? Uhhyep.

      -PS

      --
      "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
    2. Re:before the winer-hating starts... by hdparm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is also a link on Dave's home page - Doc Searls (one of the bloggers affected) provides a bit more info. If he understands, I am really at loss as to why /. readers who are not directly affected have to flame this guy.

    3. Re:before the winer-hating starts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "I am really at loss as to why /. readers who are not directly affected have to flame this guy.

      Well, because Dave has one of those nice-guy-until-he-forgets-to-take-his-meds personalities. If you catch one of his bizarre backhands once or twice (don't forget he's done more than just Manila), you don't only tend to stay away from him, you also tend to remember him uncharitably.

      So he's getting flamed more than the average joe would.

      From the Wired piece, "People have been really afraid to discuss this," said a New York blogger who asked that his name be withheld. "There's a lot of concern that any nasty comments will result in Dave not getting around to making a copy of your blog. I think a lot of the politeness and 'We love you, Dave!' sentiments that you're seeing in some Web posts is just pure paranoia."

      That's no joke. That's a direct result of Dave's past behaviour.

    4. Re:before the winer-hating starts... by RedWizzard · · Score: 4, Informative
      Doc Searls (one of the bloggers affected) provides a bit more info.
      Um, Doc Searls is quite clearly not one of the bloggers affected - his blog is still up. Clearly he's got special treatment, but how does that help the 2999 other bloggers who have no chance of seeing their data for another two weeks?
    5. Re:before the winer-hating starts... by RedWizzard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For an example of this, just look at this thread.

  12. Hmmm. by James+A.+S.+Joyce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems more and more people are turning against blogs. :-(

    Kinda reminds me of this Kuro5hin article.

  13. You know what they say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jesus saves and backs up nightly!

  14. I feel a disturbance in the force. by hayden · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's as though a couple of thousand babbling idiots were suddenly silenced.

    --
    Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
  15. hatelife.org by Zugok · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This happened to hatelife.org a few weeks ago as well, and there were a lot of people hating life a lot more than they ordinariuly would have been to. Basically Steve, the maintainer said his time with hatelife was done. People pissed and moaned about his canning hatelife and before I knew it, hatelife was taken off.

    --
    "I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
  16. Thankfully not LiveJournal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least LiveJournal didn't shut down without notice. Otherwise we'd all be up tonight digging mass graves for disfranchised teenagers all over the world.

    1. Re:Thankfully not LiveJournal by josh3736 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Doesn't an N Sync CD cost about $25?

      ...about, but you have to consider two factors:

      1. This is the age group most inclined to get anything and everything they can off Kazaa. Teens have a very limited cashflow and $25 not spent on a CD/website/whatever is a week's worth of food.
      2. Teens don't have credit cards. If they want to buy something off the web, they have to get a parent's card. This is usually hard or impossible.
      So, they have to go for the free hosting. Of course, being greedy bastards, they'll whine and bitch for a week.
    2. Re:Thankfully not LiveJournal by mlk · · Score: 5, Funny
      Doesn't an N Sync CD cost about $25?

      Last I checked, buying an N Sync CD would cost you your soul.
      And your pride if anyone ever found out.
      --
      Wow, I should not post when knackered.
  17. Re:Umm...got bandwidth cost? by itallushrt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exactly. He wasn't going to alert 3000+ users to only have them suddenly spike his bandwidth cost for the month through the roof. Even with or without 95th percentile billing.

  18. Re:Not any more then normal traffic really.. by cbreaker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Considering that the majority of the data is displayed on users' browsers, they could have shut down the sites but allowed the owners of the blogs to grab the data. It would probably have been less traffic in the few days before shutdown then normal traffic.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  19. understanding by sewagemaster · · Score: 2, Funny

    As might be expected, reactions range from understanding to enraged.

    and we shall show our "understanding" by having their site posted and slashdotting their site...

  20. Hmm... by Slipped_Disk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why I host MY little blog-like thing on MY OWN site, using MY OWN crappy software. That way I KNOW backups are getting done, and I KNOW when the machine will be down, and if something goes wrong I can fix it MY OWN DAMN SELF.

    Sorry if I seem a little callous, but really how hard is it to write a few hundred lines of PHP for a simple online journal with comments? NOT VERY! And it runs on the same machine I use for all my other stuff (DNS, Mail, CVS) so it's not like I'm spending untold thousands extra each month, it really helps make the cost-benefit ratio of my server more tolerable.

    Think about it.

    --
    /~mikeg
    1. Re:Hmm... by metamatic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who needs a couple of hundred lines of anything, let alone PHP?

      Just download blosxom. 100 lines of code. Works with any ISP, even if you don't have CGI.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:Hmm... by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's the link:

      Blosxom

      I've used Blosxom, and it pretty much rocks. I haven't used the latest version, with the plug in architecture, but it looks sweet.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  21. Did a blog kill your mom or something? by katsushiro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Honestly, the amount of snarky comments along the lines of 'Oh, blogs suck anyway, who cares.', and 'It's all idiotic blabbing anyway.' are getting on my nerves. Really, no one thinks you're one of the cool kids now just because you think blogs are passe. Stop trying to be a post-ironic hipster type who's oh-so-tired of it all. Posting on Slashdot won't get you laid. Neither will having a blog, of course, but that's my point.

    I don't understand the level of hostility against blogs. No one's putting a gun to your head and making you read them. I actually support efforts by Google and other search engines to separate blog results from regular webpage results. Sometimes I don't want to have my search results skewed by blogs, and sometimes I really want to know how the 'blogosphere' feels about a particular issue. But while that happens, just ignore them. If you hate them so much, don't read them. But, really, infantile attacks don't make you superior in any way to the bloggers.

    I know most blogs are, indeed, just self-centered rambling, or 15 year old girls talking about their latest dream with N'Sync and a pony, but on the other hand, they're valid outlets for a lot of people to just vent, express themselves, and give their opinions on issues. If you don't want to hear those opinions, then just don't visit their blogs. It's that simple.

    And yes, I do have a blog of my own, no, I'm not giving out the address here, since it's basically just a self-centered little website that's read by me and maybe 2 friends, and that's fine by me.

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Did a blog kill your mom or something? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Funny
      talking about their latest dream with N'Sync and a pony

      I have the n'sync-with-a-pony dream all the time. I should start a blog about it.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    2. Re:Did a blog kill your mom or something? by katsushiro · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cute, but no cigar. I actually own my own domain, pay for my own webhosting, installed my own weblog software, and manage it myself (with daily backups). I also pay for my own bandwith, which is part of why I feel little need to point the ravening hordes of /. at it. Frankly, it's nothing but a personal sit eof no interest to anyone but me and my friends, full of things like 'LOL, Van Helsing was the worst movie I've seen in ages! You *have* to buy me the DVD!', and 'Oooh, this shiny new gadget came out, I lust after it.'. If you're not allready among the small crowd who stops by there once a week or so to see if I'm still alive, I doubt you'd have any interest in it. Ergo, no linky. I *do* take offense with the people who try to ram their blog down everyone's throats. I don't care about your fluffy kitty, and you don't care about my 'review' of Bubba Ho-Tep, so I don't read your stuff, and you don't read mine. The web's a big place, pick your content. What I take issue with is the attitude many folks cop about blogs, when, really, no one is hijacking your freakin' browser and forcing you to read about what I had for breakfast. And if you do accidentally stumble across it, hey, your browser has all these nifty buttons, like the bookmark list, the back button, even a full address bar! So many ways to escape from the horrible tedium of my rambling! Go for it!

      Oh, and just as an aside, yeah, my username's real common, Mr. or Ms. 'geek4ever'. Real smooth of you to notice... say, you ever hear the story about the Pot? Seems he called the Kettle black.

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
  22. Choice quotes from the wired article by beforewisdom · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,63856,00. htm
    In an audio message posted late Monday explaining his reasons for the shutdown, Winer cited the financial costs of hosting the sites, technical difficulties in moving the blogs to a new server, stress and personal health issues as the reasons for the sudden shutdown.

    Winer, who has offered free hosting to bloggers for the past four years, has promised to make exportable copies of blog contents available to the blogs' owners at their request. He says it will take at least two weeks to provide copies of the blogs' contents.

    "I just did the best I could," said Winer, in his audio message. "This is not a company here ... this is a person. To expect company-type service ... that's just not going to happen."

    The first reaction on reading the news is to assume the guy was being a dick in not giving notice when he saw this coming.

    Reading the quotes from the article it may not be that cut and dried.

    A single person doesn't donate his work to running a service for 4 years then just drop people for the hell of it.

    The quotes above sound like he had other intense stuff going on in his life ......things with a higher priority....that forced him to put off dealing with this in a better manner.

    Maybe people wouldn't be angry at him if he mentioned the details of these extenuating circumstances, but then again why should he publish the personal details of his life? I'm sure anyone here can imagine several situations to make a hobby project you run the last thing on your list of priorities: a significant death, loss of a job, being forced to move, 1 or more of other things called "life" etc.

    BTW, I only heard the term "blog" within the last 2 years, yet one of the quotes from the article said this guy ran weblog for 4 years.

    Is the term "blog" newer then this guy's service?

    I used to "blog" before the term and the software. I just updated a personal website I had rather frequently.

    Steve

    1. Re:Choice quotes from the wired article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A single person doesn't donate his work to running a service for 4 years then just drop people for the hell of it.

      He was the CEO of Userland, the company that offered this service. The Userland company has been split into two parts, and this service is being abandoned. Dave, instead of telling people about this, tried to shift the weblogs onto a substandard server quietly. Mid-move, he realised the server wasn't up to it, and dumped the weblogs he didn't like.

      Now all the data is locked up on his server and you have to ask nicely to get it back in a fortnight's time. Dave is in the habit of blowing up at people if he thinks they aren't on his side, so nobody who has data they want back dare raise their voice lest they lose it all.

      Dave Winer is not a reasonable man. They may well have been extenuating circumstances, but he's acted like an asshole for years and nobody is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt forever.

    2. Re:Choice quotes from the wired article by JupiterX · · Score: 2, Informative

      BTW, I only heard the term "blog" within the last 2 years, yet one of the quotes from the article said this guy ran weblog for 4 years.

      Is the term "blog" newer then this guy's service?

      I started my first weblog with Pyra's (now Google's) Blogger service in December 1999, and people were certainly calling them "blogs" by then. IIRC Blogger started in spring 1999, but I'm not sure how or if the birth of the Blogger service coincides with the general usage of the term "blog".

      --

      Heck is a place for people who don't believe in Gosh.
  23. Re:could it be.. no. by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    3,000 people is nothing compared to a Slashdot flood. The blogs are small. He could have easily shut it down to the general populace, and left it open only to the owners of the existing blogs. It wouldn't have been more traffic then normal.

    Yes, it was free. No, you can't do anything about it. And yes, it was still and asshole thing to do.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  24. Health problems... by ReptileQc · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you read the Netcraft article, you would have seen that he had problems other than just technical problems. He seems to have health problems too. Maybe that's the real reason why he needed to shut it down. Maybe someone nice with a few gigs to spare would make a nice offer to host the whole thing?

  25. To all saying users should backup their blogs... by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To all saying users should backup their blogs...

    Exactly how are they supposed to do this?

    A fundamental weakness in the blog paradigm is that there is CGI software between you and your raw data, in order to impose a style on it. This is particularly true of third party hosting, which provides cookie-cuter blogs through common software, where the only thing that differes from user to user is a few settings and their URL.

    Backups usually only make sense if (1) you can get at the raw, preformatted data, and (2) that getting at that data will do you any good -- e.g. you will be able to externalize it the same way somewhere else.

    At this point, blog-hosting service providers really don't have standards for their variable data, so even if you had a backup, it really wouldn't get your blog back up on the net, without a lot of work.

    -- Terry

  26. It sucks but it happens by wuice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I remember the day when my Livejournal had been totally wiped. Emptied. Back to square one. I sat there dumbfounded, what had happened to my months of entries? I'm not the only one I've seen this happen to.. I guess all you can really do is move on. Losing data sucks.. Be more rigorous in backing up next time and hopefully it won't happen again.

    I've lost unreplacable data a few times now (sometimes on my machine, sometimes on someone else's servers). I should have learned my lesson sooner. Even if it *shouldn't* happen, it does happen. Sucks facing hard immovable reality sometimes.

  27. A suggestion to make things easier by dumky · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not leave the sites online, but with some authentication turned on (Basic HTTP auth)?

    This way online the blog authors could access the system and get their data out. The load on the server should stay reasonable.

  28. Money by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If money and stress were really the problem, why not sell the service to a company and then offer backups. If only a fraction of the people paid up ($15 for a year?) it would have been worth it and fewer people would have gotten pissed.

    This guy can do what he wants, but he handled things badly.

    --

    ___
    It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
  29. You get what you pay for... by coene · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... which in this case is... nothing :P

    Seriously, why would you leave data on a free hosting service's servers? You can't count on them. If I use a Hotmail or Yahoo email account, I have to understand it could drop off the planet tomorrow.

    It takes big ones to complain about a free service.

  30. New Word Coined! by Rick+and+Roll · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "ogs" - which refers to all types of online journalism, including:

    1. blogs
    2. plogs
    3. moblogs

    Note: I decided not to call them "logs", because that word has already gained use online and offline, so we need a way to distinguish which ones are online.

    1. Re:New Word Coined! by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pogs are over? Oh man!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  31. Re:To all saying users should backup their blogs.. by abartlett_219 · · Score: 2, Informative
    the LiveJournal package and site offer exports to XML of all posts for a given month. You can also pull out the comments via a different point if that is a necessity, and then just hash them together. You can see the export here.

    also, many of the clients that interface with the LJ servers can pull all the posts, comments, and other data.

  32. Wrong. by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's as though a couple of thousand babbling idiots were suddenly silenced.

    No no, Slashdot is still up. :P

  33. Re:To all saying users should backup their blogs.. by k4_pacific · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How 'bout after each post, go to the blog, then go to file->save as...

    It will be HTML, but it could be restored fairly easily by opening the html file in a web browser and copying and pasting into a new blog's post page in another browser window.

    It would be inconvenient, but not as hard as you make it out to be.

    Anyway, visit my blog. There is a link in the sig. I try to write about interesting things like life on other planets and token-ring adapters rather than just posting the typical masturbatory grousing you find in most other blogs.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
  34. Blog backup service. by Greg@RageNet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Coincidentally we are launching a blog backup service shortly. We'll back up blogs so that users won't have to worry about their content if their service goes down or *gasp* goes out of business!

    Blog Backup Program

    -- Greg

    --
    Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
  35. Dave Winer by redtail1 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    For those of you with better things to do than follow weblog community matters, Dave Winer is a narcissistic asshole who will do almost anything to get attention including revising history, throwing temper tantrums, slamming other people (but later denying he did it) and taking his ball and going home. He jealously guards technologies he helped create and hinders any efforts to help them grow from pet projects into community standards because he doesn't want to lose the spotlight. Most people who know him have learned to ignore him because complaining about his petulant behavior is pointless.


    There. Now you're up to speed.

  36. Dedication and Sorrow by Tojosan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's what I heard in his voice. I wasn't a user so I'm not going to say I understand the frustration of the bloggers but I'm just not seeing the need to attack this guy or his efforts.

    This is also a loss not to just the bloggers but the scores of folks who read those blogs. TO be honest it sounds like a loss to him also.

    Let us give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him well.

    Tojo

  37. Re:Not any more then normal traffic really.. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny
    they could have shut down the sites but allowed the owners of the blogs to grab the data. It would probably have been less traffic in the few days before shutdown then normal traffic.

    These are blogs. The owners are the ones reading them.

    Locking out the owners and only allowing guests would probably cut the bandwidth usage by about 95%.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  38. Health issues?! by YouHaveSnail · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm concerned to hear that Dave Winer is suffering from health problems. Whatever you think of him and his various endeavors, Dave has been incredibly influential in the Macintosh software and Internet development communities for about as long as I can remember. Incredibly productive, too. I won't try to list all the stuff he's done, but we've all used the fruits of his labor. And he hasn't filed a single patent for any of it.

    So screw the blogs and give Dave a break. If there's anyone out there who has earned a bit of understanding, Dave's the guy.

    Speedy recovery to you, Dave.

  39. Livejournal Backup.. by swmccracken · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hrrm.. I imagine that that would have only ever happened as a mistake - never as an unannounced delibrate action. I cannot imagine Brad being as unrepentent and arrogant as Dave here. (Another /.er has said that Dave apparently has quite a reputation for arrogance.)

    LJ is a completely different level of outfit - their scale is huge. They also created and released (the open source) memcached, now a standard way of accellerating databases on very heavy traffic'd sites.

    Anyway, there is finally a livejournal backup program - downloads your LJ to your local computer.

  40. Listen to audio notes by iamacat · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's much more informative than the web page. The guy basically says he is too sick to maintain the server and will export the blogs on request. For me, it sounds like people should either a) say thanks for a freeby they had for a while, export their stuff and move on or b) offer to host all or a portion of the sites and provide a legal privacy guarantee for moving the accounts.

    Something that slashdot owners should consider, huh?

  41. I set up this server... by jerkychew · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If it's still in the same rack as it was 6 months ago, that is. I used to work for a web hosting company that had some co-lo space in a hosting facility. We set up 2 of the servers for weblogs.com as well as another server for another site. I never met Dave, but did everything through his partner. His partner was a super-nice guy, Linux afficianado, and slashdot reader. Kinda sad that they ran out of money.

    (I have to be a bit vague on the details due to NDAs and such... Sorry for not including any specifics)

  42. wrong by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't understand the level of hostility against blogs. No one's putting a gun to your head and making you read them.

    Apparantly you haven't tried to use Google lately.

    --
    Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
  43. Manila supports backup by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 4, Informative

    Manila (the software used on weblogs.com) has an export feature for exactly this purpose. (I just backed up my site right now. Luckily it wasn't on weblogs.com.)

    Dave Winer has written in the past about why it's import for Web apps to export data: "So since we're going to have competition, I believe we must take extra steps to guarantee that there's no customer lock-in. It's even more important in the age of the Web when the user might not even have a copy of their own data. One of the cardinal requirements of this market, even before we try to get the UIs compatible, is an export function that leaves un-rendered text and data on the user's hard disk in a format readable by software that's available at a reasonable or no cost."

  44. Winer's Lying: backups would have been easy by sakusha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Winer argued that it would have been impossible to perform backups, it would have overwhelmed the system if he'd preannounced the closure, it would have killed his system from overload.

    I call Bullshit.

    Notice this handy feature on the Harvard weblog host site created by Winer:

    http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/weblogBackup

    You just submit the request, and your backup runs overnight, presumably it's a cron job to tar all your files (or the Windoze equivalent, since Winer seems stuck on Windoze platform).

    So Winer was lying when he said it would have been impossible to offer backups without shutting down the whole system like he did. Software was already written to perform backups. He could have just made the blog webspaces read-only, so blog authors could no longer post new content, but the blogs could still be available to the public, until they got backed up. This transition was handled extremely poorly, it must have been a deliberate decision to do it this way. Dave apparently WANTED to piss everyone off.

  45. There are no paid accounts by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dave Winer says "I don't want to start a site hosting business." As far as I can tell, there is no way to "upgrade" to keep a weblogs.com site; the best you could do is move to a different provider.

  46. Disproportionate much? by Complicity · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the 'enraged' link:
    Last night was a 9/11 of sorts for the weblogs.com bloggers.

    Or entirely not like that at all.
    --
    - c -
  47. Why we hate blogs by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The web is a wonderfull things in wich countless bits of information are there to be found. Except it is getting harder and harder to find them. I can easily mentally filter out the fake link sites from google results. Porn is easy too. Shopping sites I learned to regonize and avoid as well. But blogs are harder because there are so many of them and the sentences shown by google actually seem to relate to the subject I am searching for.

    Personal pages with no content of intrest to anyone have been around since the early days of the web. However they existed in their own little corner and were rarely found by search engines. Blogs because of the incestious linking to each other are found and are just another chunk of noise getting in the way.

    Not that I hate blogs. It is just, ugh. I thought I found the information I wanted and instead I am on some whiners site. What a waste of time and bandwidth.

    Now if only google could filter out blogs. Then all the personal sites would go back to their own little corner of the net and I wouldn't know anything about them. Of course if this is done then a lot of bloggers would whine because they would miss the accidental visits and see that in reality nobody wants to read about their thoughts. You gotta be intrestting to have something intrestting to say and most people simply are not.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Why we hate blogs by katsushiro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I actually agree with you on this. On my original post I said I supported efforts by Google to filter blog results, after all. The thing is, blogs *can* be a valid source of information. I actually get a decent amount of my tech news from this blog-like site, you might have heard of it, Slashdot? :)

      My point is, sometimes you *want* to know what's being written in blogs about Subject X.. and sometimes you don't. I agree that it would be nice for Google to have a 'Weblogs' tab that you could turn on and off. As for the people who would whine, hey, let 'em. That's part of what blogs are for, to whine to your heart's content. If the 'Blog Tab' is turned on in Google, you won't have to hear their whining anyway.

      As for the 'incestious linking', I really don't see the problem with it.. Some of the best blogs out there are actually riddled with hyperlinks to a plethora of resources about whatever they're talking about, be they other blogs or regular pages. That's fine. Hell, that's freakin' *great*. It's exactly *why* the Web was designed with hyperlinking in mind. So that as you write you could link any part of your text to additional or related information elswhere in the web. It's not the blog writer's fault for doing exactly what the web protocols allow them to do. If doing this skews search results on a search engine like google because of the algorithm Google chose to rank their webpages, then it's Google's choice and responsibility to adapt to it and either change their algorithm or filter out the 'offending' sites.

      Whether you like them or not, blogs are a fairly natural outgrowth of the Net's capabilities. As many here often say about any changes that affect other companies: adapt or die. Find a way to filter blogs from search results, and provide that option to those users who want it, or wait until someone else does it and watch them get your users.

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
  48. When you can't speak in public, please type it! by Augusto · · Score: 2, Informative

    His reason for putting this in audio was that he believes nobody reads "essays" and that this is a better way to convey and explain this type of idea/message.

    Ironically, he has so many "huh ... hum ... hum ... huh ... and huh ... so ... huh ..." in there that this is not the case and we would all have been better off if he just wrote it. He also sounds pretty bored. Dave, please type it next time!

    --

    - sigs are for wimps.
  49. Mom, 54, bored to death by blogging by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 4, Funny
    I know most blogs are, indeed, just self-centered rambling, or 15 year old girls talking about their latest dream with N'Sync and a pony

    That's an unnecessary "or."

  50. Run your own! It's that simple! by shrewmy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, really. I bought a computer for $110 from Computer Renaisance that runs linux with no problem. Installing apache with perl was nothing using apt-get, and Greymatter took probably like an hour to get working. And that was my first time ever doing anything outside of "THIS IS MY COOL HOMEPAGE! THIS IS A TREE (picture of a tree) IF YOU CLICK IT YOU CAN EMAIL ME!!!" websites really. And most of the bloggers are ultra cool anti-microsoft people aren't they?

    And if you have a blog thats popular enough for you to get enough traffic for your cable provider to get mad, wouldn't you already be on a paid host anyway?

  51. Someone's got to say it... by sirReal.83. · · Score: 5, Funny
    Hosting Service Closes 3000 Blogs Without Notice
    You're damn right no one noticed...

    ... Zing!

    Yes, blogs do have their uses - say, group collaboration. FLOSS. But there are a fascinating number of them that are just self-important rant-books with no real direction.
  52. Re:To all saying users should backup their blogs.. by Quantum+Jim · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You don't need fancy software to write in a blog. Jeffery Zeldman used to write his blog exclusively in a text editor, in fact! I think Tim Bray and Norman Walsh use still use Emacs to do the majority of their writing (augmented with some client-side scripts) before uploading their content, but I may be wrong.

    --
    It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
    - Jerome Klapka Jerome
  53. Archive old entries by SKPhoton · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you use LiveJournal, there is a command-line based client called Charm and one of its features is the ability to archive old posts.

    If you're worried about losing all your old posts, go ahead and back them up yourself. You never know..

  54. New URLs Suck by gbulmash · · Score: 5, Insightful
    So say someone has backed up everything and moves it somewhere else, how do their readers find them? More to the point, how do they find their readers??

    March 1997, one of my little weekly columns (didn't call them "blogs" back then) gets a mention in Us. Unfortunately I'd been hosting it in donated /~username space, and right after the magazine puts the blurb to bed, the owners of the bookstore hosting my site decide they don't want to run a server anymore.

    No warning, no forwarding, no nothing. I have everything backed up, so I register a domain, get hosting, and my site's back online within a few days... only at another address. I'm running around trying to update my entries at all the major search engines, posting to appropriate newsgroups, just trying to get the word out that my columns had moved.

    Then Us comes out, glowing little blurb recommending my column... and the *old* URL. My first major national press and no one can find me.

    That is the most insidious part of what Winer has done. He has separated all those bloggers from their readers, leaving them no way to leave a forwarding address. Anyone who doesn't backup their content takes their chances, but how do you backup your audience?

    - Greg

    1. Re:New URLs Suck by MsRee · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which is why redirect URLs are handy, especially for cheapskates like me. I host my website on various free services, but I've kept the same CJB.net URL for some time now. That's what I link to, that's where people go even if I move to another domain (so long as I update the forwarding, of course).

      --
      In Soviet Russia, TV watches you!
  55. Re:[OT] Your sig... by Hrshgn · · Score: 2, Informative

    >Le Temps Detruit Tout

    "Time destroys everything"

  56. Here's The Bottom Line, Morons by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Winer offered to host this stuff for free. He OFFERED (and to be fair, actually did it.)

    People took him up on it (braindead though that might be since it should have been obvious to him and them it couldn't go on forever.)

    Then he shuts it down WITH NO PRIOR NOTICE.

    At best, that makes him an asshole (unless it was literally an emergency that prevented him from notifying anyone at all. Was that the case? Doesn't say so.) At worst, it makes him a major asshole.

    Now the morons on /. can self-righteously complain that the people pissed off are "just whiners" - which makes the morons on /. "just whiners" by the same logic - they're whining about someone else's perfectly justified behavior.

    Bottom line: You get what you pay for (sometimes) - and you never get what you don't pay for (usually).

    Which doesn't justify being an asshole - always.

    Being right justifies being an asshole - as I demonstrate here.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  57. From Doc Searls's blog by tunah · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That last point is a critical one that we shouldn't forget, no matter who we are or how we publish on the Web. I've said before that nobody owns anything on the Web. The fact is, we're all renters here. That means our sites, our blogs, our businesses, live in a commercial marketplace. Our Web presences live at the grace of the companies on which we depend. Companies change, and so do the people that comprise them.

    Seems to be a little revisionism here: the corporations built the internet, regular people can tag along as long as their efforts are profitable? Did I miss the memo?

    --
    Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
  58. The funny thing about that to me... by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That seems to be a pretty common opinion of Dave. yet countless people decided it was a good idea to host their blog on a site operated by what would seem to be, by accounts like this, a madman!! Why on earth would you not expect your blog to just vanish someday, or have your words of wisdom turned into latin or something? Why would you host a blog there at all?

    If the answer starts with "well, it was free..." then you get everything you deserve. I have plenty of my own "Well, it was {free,cheap}" experiences and although I grumbled about it a little in the end I could only blame my own human nature for trying to get something for nothing.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The funny thing about that to me... by metamatic · · Score: 2, Informative

      In fact, if you look back through Google history a bit, you'll see that Dave gave his weblog software Manila away for free for a year or two, then suddenly jacked the price up to $899 a year subscription fee. That change was without notice too. So it's not like he hasn't pulled this kind of shit before.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  59. My guess at what happened by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Informative

    So, as far as I can tell from the discussion, he tried running stuff on his own server for a bit instead of Userland. I'm going to guess that his bandwidth usage for this month exceeded whatever he purchased for the month -- this would explain why he's refusing to provide any access until the first of next month, when he's sending people's blogs back to them.

    Of course, that doesn't explain why he'd use an audio message to get the word out.

    1. Re:My guess at what happened by Safety+Cap · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Of course, that doesn't explain why he'd use an audio message to get the word out.

      He explains in his audio that 'people don't read long essays', implying that they'll listen to some guy rambling on about his life story, insterspaced with coughs and---woe is me!---sniffles. Poor Dave, he obviously doesn't understand people (quick show of hands: which is faster to go through, email or voicemail? I thought so.)

      If he had only written down his thoughts, then I would have bothered reading them, instead of cutting off his cute diatribe after a few minutes. I can read much faster than he can say "um, ... well, ... um ... "

      --
      Yeah, right.
  60. Come on by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I notice you posted that AC. Is that because you can't really put belief in your own words?

    I don't care how much you try to explain the quote away as "metaphor", it's simply not appropriate to craft a metaphor for information loss from real people dying, especially in large numbers in a tragic manner. That's just plain rude and shows a lack of respect for those dead and the families still here. I imagine you could call up one of the "silenced" bloggers on the phone or even find some of them blogging elsewher eon the same day. Compare and contrast with a wife or child or husband who will never see a loved one again. Oh, you can't.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  61. Blogs are gay? by JRHelgeson · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those that state that weblogs are gay... WTF do you think Slashdot is?!

    Don't look now, but everyone here is blogging! SSShhhhhhhhh!

    It sure as hell isn't the New York Times!

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
  62. Re:TOS vs common courtesy by otisg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Only in such a sick culture could the terms of a contract take precedence over common courtesy. It would've cost him so much to give people a couple of days to get their shit in order?"

    You can also look at TOS vs. common courtesy the other way around:
    No matter what the TOS said, if you are/were getting free service, and this service is provided by an individual whose circumstances have changed and are outside his control, use your common courtesy and accept that your blog is now gone.

    Like other have said:
    1. if your blog is so important, why didn't you back it up?
    2. why trust an individual (or a company) with your precious data and trust them with the only copy of your data

    --
    Simpy
  63. a lesson for givers... by yow2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This reaction is a lesson for anyone thinking of giving anything away for free.

    Responsibilities come with giving a gift, so that the giver is no longer free, but instead also gives away some of their own freedom, and is bound by the recipients to give them more.

    Do these responsibilities really come with giving a gift? I'm not sure.

    But look at the reaction.

  64. Cluetrain Manifesto by nacturation · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I find it ironic that Winer was a big proponent of the Cluetrain Manifesto. Point 31 says:
    • Networked markets can change suppliers overnight. Networked knowledge workers can change employers over lunch. Your own "downsizing initiatives" taught us to ask the question: "Loyalty? What's that?"

    Yep. Looks like loyalty just went out the window. :)
    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  65. Was it really Dave Winer? by xtermin8 · · Score: 2, Informative

    May 17, 2004 UserLand Software, Inc., the venerable weblogging and web content management company, today announced the execution of a transaction whereby certain of its assets and operations were acquired by a new corporate entity. The new company, UserLand Corporation, acquired the assets and operations of UserLand Software related to the products Manila and Radio UserLand, plus the "UserLand" brand name and website. The new company will operate under the name "UserLand Software".

  66. A Little Perspective... by reallocate · · Score: 4, Informative

    As he's said (just in case, you know, a few Slashdotter's don't actually know what they're talkng about because they don't read anything beyond /.'s well-spun lede), the blogs were hosted on servers belonging to Userland, the California corporation Winer founded but left two years ago after heart bypass surgery. Userland apparently recently cleaned its corporate house, letting go of several activities and interests that they were supporting but which do not, and will not, bring in any revenue. That included the blogs.

    Winer seems to have wanted to migrate the blogs to Cambridge, Mass, where he is now a visiting fellow at Harvard. However, when he loaded up a server with the blogs, it turned to molasses. (If memeory serves, they run on a Windows server.)

    The obvious solution was to buy more hardware and spread the blogs among several servers. I can't really blame Winer for not doing that: He'd become a defacto freebie hosting service (there are no ads on these free sites, so no chance for any revenue); he'd need to hire staff to perform the migrations and manage the servers (his comments clearly indicated that the doctors have told him to stay away from the stress of programming and admin'ing); and he's about to leave Harvard and move elsewhere.

    As far as the TOS goes, I once briefly used another free Userland/Winer blogging facility and, I believe, those TOS clearly indicated that there the sites were hosted, in effect, at the pleasure of Userland. They made no claims about support, uptime, or lifetime.

    That said, the notice to the users was very abrupt. We don't know if this had been in the works for weeks or for hours. If the decision to take down the sites was made weeks ago, then the notice to users should have been given weeks ago. If the decision was made abruptly, everyone was left holding the bag.

    Perhaps a better solution would have been for Userland to send out the shutdown notices and for no one to make any attempt to keep the sites alive.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    1. Re:A Little Perspective... by silicon+not+in+the+v · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think people may have missed the significant point of how this happened. They wouldn't have sent out a notice about impending closure from Userland because they weren't planning to close them at that point. Dave was planning to migrate them and keep them going. It was only after they had been moved that it was discovered how he had underestimated the amount of server power needed. The new home couldn't handle running them, much less the load it would have been hit with if everyone had been notified and started backing up their sites. It was unfortunate, but at least he's setting up a way for people to get their content back. I can't believe people are so upset about losing access to their hobby for a couple weeks. It's a hobby someone else pays for, too.

      --
      We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
  67. Re:Common courtesy? by jcr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    he's basically saying that sometime after July 1, when he's moved and settled in and he gets around to it, he will make them available. that doesn't exactly sound like any kind of reassurance. ..which is more than he has any obligation to do, I might point out.

    He was giving people something for nothing, and you're getting all indignant because he's decided to quit. Get over yourself.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  68. 3000 Weblogs 3000 Bloggers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First, I notice that many of these posts say that "3000 bloggers" have lost their sites. This is just not true. I know that at least three of these sites were mine. I created them for various purposes, they ran their course, and when I was through with them I let them go to seed. I'm sure that I'm not the only one to do so. I lost nothing when they were shut down. In fact, my contact information was not current, so Winer would not have been able to contact me if he had tried. I'll bet that I'm not alone in THAT respect, either.

    Second, as many people pointed out, these accounts didn't cost me a dime, and they didn't make Winer a dime. There were no ads on the sites. Winer didn't harvest my email to sell to spammers, and he didn't spam me myself. I got a hell of a lot more than Winer did. I got the use of his site for four years. I got the opportunity to experiment with weblogs. I got the use of a first-class weblogging system. Winer's software is far and away the best system that I've tried. The themes were professional and well-designed, the software was intuitive and a pleasure to use, and the response time was usually exceptional. Going from Userland to another system -- Blogger, for example -- was like going from OS X to Windows 3.1. (Brrrr.)

    It was a free service that went on long after the Internet bubble burst and other free services disappeared. It was fun while it lasted. Could Winer have done a better job of weaning people off the system? Maybe. I don't know, and neither do you.

    Oddly enough, I don't recall any /. posts from people saying that they lost their own sites when Winer pulled the plug. (Although I have to say that the posts here are downright sedate compared to the people at http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/mtarchive/002739.h tml, who seriously need to go back on their meds.)

  69. The Difference Between Understanding and Enraged by thelizman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The "understanding" user said it all. He got more than he 'didn't pay for'. Some people - like "enraged" act as if the world owes them something for free. Get a clue people - unless you actually pay for a service, you have not right what-so-ever to expect anything, including continued service.

    Also worth noting, "understanding" is calm and rational. "enraged" is a whining snarling back-biting little bitch. For those of you considering provided an internet based service free of charge, think about the multitudes of "engrageds" out there.

  70. Easy way to get weblogs.com content back: Google by eggboard · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you don't want to interact with the fellow who shut the blogs down (I've promised to never say his name in print again for the same reason the Indo-European root of "bear" is actually "brown"), I've written a short and sweet way to extract all of your blog posts in somewhat ugly but complete form using Google.

    Essentially, enter a Google query in the form

    site:YOURDOMAIN.weblogs.com UNIQUE_WORD

    Unique word should be something that appears on every page. Now get one of those slurping programs that downloads Web pages. Point it to the Google URL and set it to one level deep. It'll retrieve all the pages via Google's Cached link. repeat for each page of Google results. Now you have your content, and if you've clever, you can write a shell script to extract the unique text and eventually recreate your blog without any "bear" involved.

    --
    Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
  71. Upgradeable too by Stevyn · · Score: 2, Funny

    When dealing with audio blogs narrated, you can write it as "oggs"