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Copy-protected CD Tops U.S. Charts

Joey Patterson writes "CNET is reporting that Velvet Revolver's new album, 'Contraband', which is protected with SunnComm's anti-copying technology, has topped the U.S. album charts. The SunnComm and BMG execs quoted in the article say that they're pleased with the apparent consumer acceptance of the anti-piracy technology, but they have been hearing questions about how people can get the copy-blocked songs from the CD onto an iPod."

109 of 895 comments (clear)

  1. Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's quite probably just a case where not many people have discovered that they've been screwed-over just yet...

    The anger will come soon...

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Scoria · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The anger will come soon...

      Oh, but that's all right! None of the prevalent vendors permit CDs that have been opened to be returned. You could've duplicated it, after all, or extracted the tracks.

      Furthermore, if the average eleven-year-old girl (who isn't at all interested in copy protection) fails to purchase the most recent pop CD, she could very well be committing "social suicide."

      What is more important to an eleven-year-old girl, DRM or her social status?

      --
      Do you like German cars?
    2. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I own two copy protected CD's, both Australian acts, and both ( I think ) signed to EMI. The other night, while buying the second one ( The Cat Empire ), I asked the guys behind the counter about the protection scheme. They considerately riffled through all their copies on file to see if they had a non managed printing I could have for the same price, and when they couldn't find one, said I could bring back the CD if it didn't work with any of my equipment.

      So, they're not all dickheads. Both CD's ripped fine in iTunes and play fine on my iPod, incidently... So I'm beginning to wonder if there's really any protection on the disks at all. Maybe this is a case of "the emperors new copy protection".

      --
      One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
    3. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by orthogonal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The anger will come soon...

      I hope you're right.

      But I doubt it. Meaning no disrespect to anyone by my use of dialect, I think it's more a case of "Oh massa, dem new chains is so shiny, I's be heppy to fassin dem ons me an' git right in yo boat, suh".

      The difference, of course, is that Africans, proud of their freedoms, didn't line up willingly to be slaves in hopes of wearing shiny bonds -- but we modern Americans have become so neglectful of our liberties that we'll give them up for the next boy band's CD or the facile assurance that the next intrusive government surveillance program really will finally guarantee our safety.

      Like Esau in the Bible, we willingly give up our birthright of liberty for a mess of pottage -- for Consumerism's shiny trinkets and the bland assurances of the Fascists who whip up our fears and then promise to protect us from our freedoms.

      If this CD stays at the top of the charts, expect all new CDs to be copy-protected -- but worse than the copy-protection will be that we will take for granted that copy-protection legitimately should be there. The Corporation's triumph isn't in getting you to buy a copy-protected CD or a particular kind of DRM; it's in getting you to accept as natural and legitimate and right that by buying a CD or a shrink-wrapped software title you now must forever afterward ask the permission of the seller to use what you have honestly purchased, that you must acquiesce to the seller forever setting the rules and conditions under which you can use what you have bought.

      In short, you've been changed from a purchaser of a good to a renter of a license and have consented to be taxed and regulated in perpetuity for the privilege of renting.

      Thomas Jefferson dreamt for his country a Republic of proudly independent freeholders, each man the owner of his Real Estate; George Washington, drawing on the Bible's prophet Micah, foresaw an America where "everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid". Instead we're turning into a rabble of peasants and share-croppers slaving for, and kowtowing to, the modern day Lords of Corporatism. And we put on our chains so willingly!

    4. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by evilviper · · Score: 5, Interesting
      None of the prevalent vendors permit CDs that have been opened to be returned. You could've duplicated it, after all, or extracted the tracks.

      There's no legal basis for their refusal. Make a stink, and they'll accept it. Return 500 copies in a week, and they'll give you a refund. They will do anything to not get pulled into court on a class-action lawsuit over not accepting returned CDs...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by evilviper · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have to disagree with you.

      People aren't all that accepting of government surveilance, copy protected CDs, DVD-CSS, etc. The biggest problem is that there aren't enough people who understand the high-tech issues, so they don't know they've gotten screwed for a while.

      This copy protection scheme sounds benign enough that it might slip under the radar, but I think there will be a reasonable stink about it.

      It's just going to take something a bit more obvious to turn people into a rioting mass... Buying a $5,000 Plasma TV, and spending $1,000 on a HD-Tivo that is completely useless, is going to be a big one, once it finally arrives.

      No, I don't have as bleak of a view of the public as you do, I just think things take a little longer to get straightened out than I would like.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    6. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you have autorun disabled on your CD drive you probably won't notice a thing.

    7. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by It'sYerMam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You do have a point, but if it goes unnoticed for long enough, then when people finally realise that they can't rip their choons then they'll either not have the know-how to realise they've been screwed, or not really care.
      Sure, for /.ers such as we, DRM is A Bad Thing (tm) and I for one will try not to buy anything that impedes my free (and fair) use of products that I buy. However, if some joe off the street buys something and can't put it on his iPod, will he think, "I've but some copy-protected crap from a shitty corporation" or will he think "I've bought something that won't go on my iPod... perhaps I need to get Windows XP"
      I expect that for the most part, it will be the latter.

      Getting people to boycott anything is a pretty difficult thing - although it did work in bringing down apartheid. However, with apartheid, there was an alternative to African apples. There is no alternative to your favourite band, and most will not have the conviction to neglect their band and fight against DRM.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    8. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by sabrex15 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, I have to agree with this. If anyone here is more fluent in the Bible than I am, please quote some passages which I hope suggest what Im saying. In the begin of the end-times I'm pretty sure It speaks of basically censorship and being controlled, i.e we will all wear the mark of the beast, does this not seem like the type of thing that will inevitably lead to what the Bible speaks of? Is that not was the OSS community is basically trying to fight against?.. I think we are seeing the beginnings right here, be-it small amounts. I for one am against this type of thing, but I can also see where they want to protect what they own.. But this is going to lead to something bad.

      PS: Sorry if I offended anyone, but I'm entitled to an opinion, please respond. :)

    9. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dear Anonymous Coward,

      You have published a way to circumvent a DRM placed on a CD. You just violated DMCA. Be prepared to surrender your PC as is. Deleting any file will escalate your offense. At the sound of a knock on your door, slowly open the door, step outside with your hands up and get on the ground. Failure to comply will result in SWAT team entering your residence by force and draggin you out by your toes. Thank you for your cooperation.

      Sincerely yours,
      Jorge UU. Plant
      RIAA

    10. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by donscarletti · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was at a lan party once, and someone brought along their cat empire cd. My mate asked to borrow it in order to rip it. He was warned against that by its owner because of the label. But when it was actually tried, it ripped perfectly without a single hitch. My explanation was that the copy protection was based on the most fundimental concept of copy protection circumvention: "where there is a will there is a way" and that Cat Empire merely attacks that will with it's content. Unfortunently I was surrounded by fans and I had many things thrown at me for the rest of the evening... I hate lan parties.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    11. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is no alternative to your favourite band

      Just wait till RMS and Rob Malda start a group.

      It'll have some obscure name like "The command line interface" and after their concerts everyone will hang around commenting on their music and complaining how they sang one song THREE TIMES in ONE SHOW!! And folks will whine about how their music sucks so much worse than it used to and vendors at the show will sell Music CDs along with Linux Distros and slashcode. And when they do a video it will have Natalie Portman in it. And...

      --

      ___
      It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
    12. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by lintux · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, here in Europe copy-protected CD's exist for a while already. Most of them are more advanced than an Autorun applet that fucks up the CD-ROM driver. (By the way, does this also break the driver when you insert the CD when logged in as something else than Administrator?)

      Some of them are even slightly malicious; when you try to rip them, you get all kinds of ugly peaks and other distortions. When you play the result, it's possible that they break your audio equipment... And yeah, try to find the "Compact Disc" logo on those CD's, it isn't there. It's not a CD anymore, it just looks like one.

      But so far, copy-protected CD's still exist. Fortunately, most decent CD shops do allow you to bring the CD back and get your money back, because more and more CD players fail to read the discs (players with MP3 support, for example). The sad thing is that not only the dull Britney Spears CD's are copy-protected, but also stuff like Radiohead and Placebo.

      So well, let's hope the anger will come, it didn't really come here, unfortunately.

    13. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by thetroll123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      will do anything to not get pulled into court on a class-action lawsuit over not accepting returned CDs...

      What a bizarre country! Are you seriously saying they *have* to let you cancel the sales contract unilaterally for no reason other than that you want to?

    14. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Absolutely. And this is something that will never cease to amaze me; Why do so many people seemingly blindly accept the sellers arbitrary decision ?

      Just because a sellers claims you can't return opened merchandise, doesn't mean it's true.

      You bougth something, expecting it to be a standard CD. (reasonable, given that the copy-protection is typically poorly marked, and the CDs stacked up on racks intermixed with the non-CDs) That is, you gave away money, reasonably expecting to get a CD for it that would play in any machine capable of playing CDs.

      When the piece of plastic you got infact is not a CD, and infact is seriously inferior to a CD, by not playing in your computer, not playing in many car-stereos, not playing in your playstation, not playing in your DVD-player, not being rippable so that you can listen to it on your mp3-player and so on (all of which would work fine with a CD), then there's very little doubt that the merchandise you bougth is defective, and you have the rigth to return it.

    15. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by cammoblammo · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're thinking of Revelation 13.

      Now I don't believe that Revelation specifically speaks about the end times--it's a veiled story about the Roman Empire which had outlawed Christianity (during the reign of Domitian, IIRC, not long after the time of Nero). Christians had few rights, apart from being first in line at lion feeding time.

      Essentially, the Book of Revelation is a diatribe against the loss of religious and political freedom, and how the true believer doesn't have to fear the state. Interestingly, they are also encouraged to stand against anything which would take away their freedom. As such, it is relevant to any situation where Christians are persecuted and aren't able to exercise their right to worship as they see fit. Ultimately, the oppressive regime will fall, but there will always be those faithful who make it through. Those who don't can still die gloriously, knowing they stood to the end. So although I read the book differently to you, I think we come to the same general conclusion.

      I've never really thought about Revelation in secular terms, but there's no reason why it couldn't (broadly) be read that way. Even if people would take your freedom, live as a free person. Don't fear those who can harm the body, but can't touch the soul (or read through a tinfoil hat).

      Good call!

      --

      Cogito, ergo sig.

    16. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by BurritoWarrior · · Score: 5, Funny

      I cen see the tracks on the first album now...

      1. All Your Bass
      2. Hot Grits
      3. In Soviet Russia
      4. Dupe of Earl
      5. I'm a Cowboy (Neal)
      6. BSD is Dying
      6. ???
      7. Profit!!!

      As long as goatse isn't in the liner notes...

    17. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by technothrasher · · Score: 3, Informative
      A store does not have to honor their sales. They can sell you a piece of shit and not accept it as a return

      I'm amazed at the number of people that think this. It's simply not true. In most (all?) states you've got laws of fitness and merchantability which specifically address this. For Massachusetts, at least, See MGL - Chapter 106, especially sections 2-314 & 2-315. Also note section 2-316: For consumer goods sales in particular, a store cannot even expressly exclude these warrenties.

      Now realize that none of this means you can just waltz in to a store and return anything you want on a whim, but it does mean that a store can NOT simply sell you a peice of shit and walk away.

    18. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by keraneuology · · Score: 3, Interesting
      People aren't all that accepting of government surveilance, copy protected CDs, DVD-CSS, etc.
      XY-bovine excrement. Who was the last elected official to be recalled or voted out for approving city-run cameras in public places? What are the odds that Sen Orrin Hatch (R-UT) will lost the next election over his absolute embracement of copy-protecting CDs and the use of the FBI to win the war on Napster?

      People will accept anything as long as they don't have to cast an intelligent vote (or even vote at all). So long as beer is cheap and plentiful and they can choose between the commercials on 250 channels being broadcast at any given moment then they will happily take whatever abuse is sent their way. Young 20-somethings care about copy protection. Geriatrics care about free money and health care. Which group votes in a larger block? Which group receives attention?

      Look at all of the people in this country who hate spam. How long did it take congress to take entirely ineffective action (which everybody told them wouldn't work to begin with). Even when most people care about an issue it STILL doesn't get anything done.

      Now that the FCC is moving towards a broadcast flag for radio, how long until all radio broadcasts must be digital, forever ending the experimentation with crystal radio sets?

      --
      If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
    19. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by technothrasher · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yes, but a copy-protected cd is not a piece of shit. If it is labeled as copy protected you can't just turn around and return it for being copy protected.

      Yeah, it's a messy situation there. I think there's an argument that it fails "fitness of purpose" if it doesn't play in a bunch of standard players. But there's also an argument that there's a responsibility of the consumer to fully inspect the merchandise. The best legal thing (ob. IANAL) for the consumer to do is simply ask the merchant "Will this work in all my standard CD players?". If the merchant says yes, you now have grounds to return it when it doesn't.

    20. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by proj_2501 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Young 20-somethings care about copy protection. Geriatrics care about free money and health care. Which group votes in a larger block? Which group receives attention?"

      What does that mean?

      GET

      OFF

      YOUR ASS

      and VOTE

    21. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Exatron · · Score: 3, Funny
      As long as goatse isn't in the liner notes...

      Of course it wouldn't be in the liner notes. It would be more appropriate as a hidden track.

      --
      "I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
      "Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
    22. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Yewbert · · Score: 4, Informative
      new Beastie Boys album.... I tried to rip it in CDex like I did with the Cat Empire CD, but I couldn't see any audio tracks - just data tracks - even after turning off Autoplay.

      Have you tried ExactAudioCopy? Download it from www.exactaudiocopy.de and give it a try. Report back if you feel like it - I'd be curious to know if it works.

    23. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Paulrothrock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So should we vote for the guy who voted for the DMCA, or the guy who enforces the DMCA?

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    24. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Heck, why go after the "Anonymous Coward?" There are much bigger stakes here. Microsoft is the one who designed Windows to allow you to hold down the shift key to stop auto-play. So, they are the ones who are providing the method to circumvent the DRM that violates the DMCA.

      Anonymous Coward is a small potato. BMI should go after Microsoft.

      DcnJoe60

      ps the above comment is copyrighted. Anyone printing it off without permission is violating the DMCA, please send your name and computer and printer manufacturer to my lawyers.

    25. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by The_K4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had a friend who got around this with a Copy Protected CD. He took it back, said "Hey this won't play correctly in my Car's mp3-cd player" they exchanded if for the same title. Is still wouldn't play (because of the copy protection) so he once again exchanged it. After the 4th exchanges they just gave him store credit for the original product because he kept exchainging it. In his veiw it was "defective" if it would not play in his player and therefor was excersizing his rights under the terms of the sale to exchange it for one that was hopefully not defective. I'm not sure that this tactic would work on the CDs that play fine but just can't be copied (because that's not defective) but it was entertaining to see how many times best buy would give him new copies of that CD, each time passing the cost of the "defective" disk onto the manufacturer.

    26. Re:Doesn't mean people are happy with it... by ZeroTrace · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are a couple problems with this if you are a *nix user... 1. You have to mount the CD first 2. The copy protection software is a Windows Executable Is it my fault if the copy protection doesn't work on my chosen platform? What if I decided to take the SPDIF output from my stereo and run it into my sound card? The bottom line is that this is an imperfect technology... Unless they want to invent a new CD format and obsolete every CD player on the planet, these copy protection schemes seem to be a lost cause.

  2. funny by ericdano · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Funny, I thought I saw this on BitTorrent already.....

    --
    It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
    I moderate therefore I rule!
    --
    1. Re:funny by mkro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure, there will always be PIRATES out there that can get it. This protection is just to train the general population to know how far their right to use the products goes.

      --
      I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
    2. Re:funny by sewagemaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I saw 3 different torrents of this album on suprnova.org the other day.

      Heard an interview with them on a Vancouver radio station last week, asking them about what they think about people downloading their albums off the Internet (by that time so many people already had copies of their albums and I'm actually quite surprised now just finding out that the CDs were copy-protected) - they said something about having their concert tickets jacked up more to get their revenues.

      Apparently their entire US tour got sold out within 10 minutes, so I don't think jacking up concert tix would have that much of an impact...

  3. What shits me... by professorhojo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... is that in their attempts to create a CD that fits their aims, the record companies have tried many methods of corrupting the CD format, and then they have tested these by making secret releases into localized markets, sometimes of hundreds of thousands of CDs. Everyday people have then bought these sub-standard CDs, and have been unknowingly testing the record company's new CD protection schemes for them.

    For instance, an early release made under Midbar's Cactus format in Germany reportedly had a 4% return rate. These were from people who found that these CDs didn't work on their normal CD players -- let alone in their computers. 4% is a huge return rate when you consider that many people might have found a problem with one CD player but not another, and who might have thought it was the player that was at fault rather than the CD.

    Undeterred by these experiences of upsetting their customers, the record companies have continued to develop these formats and test them on an unsuspecting public, either unlabelled or with small or misleading labels. Along the way, problems with these CDs have been found on DVD players, car audio systems, older CD players, PlayStation machines, computers, laptops and several other types of devices.

    To add injury to insult, several of these so-called 'copy-protection' formats actually interfere with the error-correction mechanism of the disk. This mechanism is designed to take care of scratches on the disk -- your CD player can fill in over a small number of scratches on the disk because the error correction codes tell it how to. The manufacturers found that by corrupting the error correction codes, they could make a CD that computers would reject, but that normal CD players would still manage to play. The cost of this, of course, is that your CDs are less resistant to scratches (and Philips have confirmed this). This is not too much inconvenience for the manufacturer -- but what about for you?

    1. Re:What shits me... by Thiago+Ize · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The cost of this, of course, is that your CDs are less resistant to scratches
      Sounds like a great idea! Now the RIAA not only has cured the world of evil piracy, but the sale of CDs has trippled as everyone now has to purchase the same CD every 3 months to replace their scratched CDs! Brilliant!
    2. Re:What shits me... by Trillan · · Score: 5, Informative

      In this case, the CD uses MediaMax protection. MediaMax protection does not involve any of the tricks you listed.

      See this article for a description of MediaMax.

    3. Re:What shits me... by canon006 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I worked in a Sam Goody store last summer and I remember a significant number of people buying a CD and then 10 minutes later coming back in complaining it wouldn't work in their car CD player. The manager would usually take the CD in the back and try it on the store CD player which was brand new and the CDs always seemed to work fine. It seemed to always be the same few albums too, at first few we figured it was just a fluke but after it started to become a regular occurrence we looked into the matter and found that those albums had some kind of copy protection and wouldn't work in older CD players. In most cases, if the customer was nice, we'd just take it as a return and give them their money back; I don't even know how many CDs we took back that way .

    4. Re:What shits me... by pilkul · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Haha, that's hilariously bad. A high-school kid could've figured out how to disable autorun and bypass that protection.

      My pet theory is that the reason all DRM schemes are so hopelessly weak is that whenever the music industry confronts a competent programmer with the request to build a DRM scheme, he immediately throws up his hands and says it's impossible to do properly. The only people who will attempt the assignment are those who are too incompetent to understand that the schemes can't work.

  4. Oops! by LocoSpitz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They seem to have confused acceptance with ignorance.

    1. Re:Oops! by The+Famous+Brett+Wat · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They seem to have confused acceptance with ignorance.

      One will do as well as the other, so far as they are concerned.

      --
      proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
  5. low tech way by novalogic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    simple. have a home audio system with a fiber audio out, and have a nice sound card with fiber in, and make MP3s over it. Won't get the static or line noise of the copper, although I'm sure your dog can tell the different between this method and a direct CDA rip....

    --
    --
    1. Re:low tech way by yuri+benjamin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or use the [shift] key when you insert the disk. Or use another operating system that doesn't autorun the anti-copying software.

      --
      You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
  6. Re:But.. by zors · · Score: 5, Informative

    RTFA. There is a sticker on the CD that its copy protected.

  7. This could be a good thing by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Obviously a lot of people have bought this album, and no doubt a lot of people will want to transfer songs to an iPod or other player and will find out the hard way that they can't. This will get the public's attention on the issue of copy protected CDs. I suspect that most people will not buy another one, having been burned once before. If these prove to be unpopular enough in the long run, they will probably not be sold anymore. Hopefully, there will be a future story about a band's album having very disappointing sales due to copy protection.

  8. SunnComm by Professor_Quail · · Score: 5, Funny

    Isn't this the same company who sued a Princeton student after he figured out that pressing the shift key defeated their copyright 'protection'?

    Besides, it's probably F9 or something this time.

    1. Re:SunnComm by keefey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The shift-key thing stops auto-play on Windows machines, which is how he got past it. If he hadn't, it comes up with a message saying "an upgrade needs to be installed" (because it's illegal to install software automatically without the user knowing). Pressing cancel to this also bypasses the "protection".

      The company in question has moved onto a slightly more complicated version, which requires a physical crack for consecutive reads, but it's still very simple to break.

  9. How to get album onto iPod by Snowspinner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Go to iTunes music store.

    Buy album.

    Put on iPod.

    On a less pithy note, would it be that hard for EMI to make an agreement with Apple such that, if you have the CD in the drive, you can buy the iTunes version for free? Or you could always package the album with a certificate code that can be used to buy the album for free on iTunes. Both of those seem like relatively easy solutions.

    And, finally, on an inquisitive note, does this software also install on OS X? Or is this a Windows only gimping?

  10. Protection and iTunes/iPods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I use a Mac and purchased the album. No problem encoding to AAC with iTunes or transferring to an ipod. Wouldn't have even known it was copy protected without this posting.

  11. Re:right... by Milo+of+Kroton · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes. It is by called "Line In." I have a cd entire copied with Line In. Lead cable from CD player into the input port. Records it, and compress. This not the heavy pirates stops, just people with the iPods.

  12. Not surprising... by big_groo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This album by Velvet Revolver is actually a much anticapated album -- former members of GNR and the Stone Temple Pilots. Not really surprising that it's #1. People don't really care that the album is copy protected.

    Hell, I'll go buy this one. These guys make good music. Plain and simple. Go pimp your 'the people want copy protection' somewhere else. People want decent music. This band delivers.

    1. Re:Not surprising... by DeeKayWon · · Score: 4, Informative
      it's not a REAL CD by the established standard.

      My impression from the reports about the copy prevention system used is that it is a valid hybrid data/audio CD - ripping is prevented only when the software on the CD, which blocks the CD from being recognized as a standard audio CD, is installed. Without the software, the CD shows up in ripping programs like any properly-made audio CD.

      Yes, there are many copy prevention systems that deliberately malform the data on the CD, breaking its compliance with the Red Book spec, but this isn't one of them.

  13. Re:right... by Samlind1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Yep, just checked and found 104 files from this album.

    Seems to have slowed down the pirates by .06 seconds.

  14. Great quotes... by mrpuffypants · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As in earlier tests by BMG and SunnComm, the copy protection on the Velvet Revolver disc can be simply disabled by pushing the "Shift" key on a computer while the CD is loading, which blocks the SunnComm software from being installed. The companies say they have long been aware of the work-around but that they were not trying to create an unhackable protection.

    If the point is to make people unable to rip the music and you allow a backdoor 'knowingly' then why even bother in the first place?

    "We are actively working with Apple to provide a long-term solution to this issue," a posting on SunnComm's Web site reads. "We encourage you to provide feedback to Apple, requesting they implement a solution that will enable the iPod to support other secure music formats."

    Dear Apple,

    Please support the latest copy-protection scheme from my favourite recording label, BMG and their current subsidiary, SunComm. Also, please compile in support for the different methods for every single other copy protection scheme espoused by every other label on every other album at Best Buy.

    Also, please be prepared to update these codecs as the record labels see fit or the iPod and iTunes may no longer be compatible in an effort to keep ahead of nefarious CD pirates.

    Also, please CC: this message to anybody else you know that makes CD player apps (Nullsoft, Microsoft, Roxio, Sony, etc, etc ,etc).

    Finally, please forget about that old 'Redbook' standard for CDs. That is old and should be cast off upon a pile of 8-Tracks, Divx discs, and CSS.

    Thanks for your time.

    Love, Tom

  15. "Contraband" by skraps · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere.

    --
    Karma: -2147483648 (Mostly affected by integer overflow)
  16. Easy to bypass by keefey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've not yet found a single CD which has been copy protected that cannot be bypassed easily. I wish they'd just learn that these systems which try trickery on the laser head (so that head bounces around the disc if you try to do a consecutive read) is simple to get past.

    The last one I had that required "cracking" (although it hardly warrants the term) was bypassed using the sticky bit of a post-it note (I won't say exactly where it was stuck for fear that I'll have the legal eagles coming down on me, as it were).

    I find it more of an inconvenience than a reason not to buy a particular artists CDs (although I've never heard of these chart-toppers).

    The CD medium, as it stands now, just cannot support the kind of copy protection they want to put in place, simply because they have to cater for "dumb" machines, such as the typical CD player. It would be more frugal if they just didn't bother.

  17. Statistics: 90% made up; 100% misinterperated by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can't make up the fact that the album in #1 right now, but is the recording industry saying "if people did not accept the copy protection then the sales would be lower"? Did it ever occur to them that maybe it is just a really good album and that the people buying it are people who don't steal music anyways?

    From what I understand, most people who used to buy CDs from before Mp3s were popular STILL DO. Sales are up aren't they? I personally never used to buy CDs. I would just listen to the radio. Mp3s are convienient because they are commercial free and I can play DJ, but if they didn't exist I would be listening to the radio and not buying albums. Most people I speak to feel the same way.

    --
    http://brandonbloom.name
  18. Re:right... by tiptone · · Score: 5, Informative

    running Fedora Core 2, gnome-cd wouldn't play it and grip couldn't rip it. though XMMS played it just fine using the CD Audio Player 1.2.10 [libcaudio.so], and XMMS does have a Disk Writer Plugin sooooo i think that's pretty much copy-protection broken with no new software needed.

    --
    Please don't read my sig.
  19. Re:right... by FrYGuY101 · · Score: 5, Funny

    To be fair, it DID require them to hit the shift key... That's probably why it slowed them down a full .06 seconds!

    --
    "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."

    - Seneca
  20. This is TRIVIAL to bypass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The CD isn't really protected in any way.

    According to the article, it has anti-copying software (read: spyware) that installs automatically using Windows Autoplay if you insert the CD into your Windows PC, but the CD isn't otherwise protected.

    So if you have Autoplay turned off, or use Linux or a Mac, or simply hold down Shift while you insert the CD, you can rip the files fine. This workaround has been known since last October, when the SunnComm copy "protection" system was first introduced.

    1. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it actually installs software without asking, they deserve some kind of large lawsuit.. though I'm not sure what the damages would be... probably something similar to what we might charge virus writers with?

      I bought an audio CD, and I have a fair expectation of what that means. It does NOT mean somthing that installs software silently and without asking on my pc.

    2. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I bought an audio CD, and I have a fair expectation of what that means. It does NOT mean somthing that installs software silently and without asking on my pc.

      Well said. It's quite sad that they seem to be getting away with this, and that the press isn't covering it from that point of view.

    3. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by Prof.+Pi · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So basically, they're relying on the computing monoculture, and also on the "hide everything from the user and keep him clueless" philosophy behind it.

      BTW, notice the deliberate manipulation here? They choose an album guaranteed to get high sales because the band is pieced together from two well-known bands, then claim the high sales proves copy-protection is acceptable to the consumers. (When probably it's just so feeble that it wasn't even noticed most of the time.)

    4. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by keefey · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've not found one yet that installs without saying anything. Normally it says "this CD needs to install an upgrade to function" (or something along those lines), with a cancel button. Pressing cancel stops the install.

      Perhaps they've only done that on EU ones though. I'd be bloody livid if I found soemthing sneakily installed.

    5. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Holy hell!!!

      Are you going to tell me that I have to get rid of my keyboard because it has a SHIFT key on it?! After all, according to the DMCA, it's a circumvention device and is therefore illegal!!! oh well...i guess i better get used to not having a shift key...the other day i realized that the caps-lock was no longer useful since i don't write in cobol. i guess that was premature since now i can't have a shift key... bastards11111111

    6. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by keefey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yup. It's sa if you pressed shift. It's basically a scam to get novice users to automatically react and press OK without questioning why the CD they have just lovingly bought should be any different to the others they have in their collections.

      Silly users.

    7. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by instanto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "this cd needs to install an upgrade to function"?

      Exactly what does it "upgrade"?

      Its like receiving a email "I love you, click this link".

      "I will upgrade your computer - just click ok!"

      Good way to fool innocent computer illiterates though.

      [any spelling mistakes came from the internet(tm)]

      --
      // instant - "I for one welcome our new Decaff Coffee-Flavoured-Coffee Overlords"
    8. Re:This is TRIVIAL to bypass by FrostedWheat · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm afraid it's not your shity key you have to get rid of Mr.Erroneus. It's your finger that actually violated the DMCA, therefore we must ask you to remove it and place it in this plastic bag.

      Have a nice day.
      -Mr.Smith from the government.

  21. Re:Funny... by iliketrash · · Score: 5, Funny

    I had it three days before they started recording it.

  22. Just wait till you read the article by achurch · · Score: 5, Interesting
    To wit:
    As in earlier tests by BMG and SunnComm, the copy protection on the Velvet Revolver disc can be simply disabled by pushing the "Shift" key on a computer while the CD is loading, which blocks the SunnComm software from being installed. The companies say they have long been aware of the work-around but that they were not trying to create an unhackable protection.

    Okay, I'm completely boggled now . . . what exactly are they're trying to accomplish?

  23. Re:But.. by miracle69 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Exactly.

    I purchased this album at the store. I asked the girl behind the counter if I could bring the CD back if it didn't play in my car. She said I could.

    I bought it, it played in my car, and Grip had no problems archiving it for me. Dunno what the copy protection is, but it works GREAT!!!

    --
    Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
  24. Re:Put it on an iPod? by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Yep, it's right there on the iTMS. I can't say that the music excites me, though.

    I wonder if any of the labels have asked Apple *not* to provide samples of all the songs on a given album. I mean, I listened to a couple of these songs' snippets, and, gee, it's really nothing to write home about. I wonder how many of the people who have bought the physical CD got a chance to listen to it, and how many people who didn't listen to it were disappointed when they got it home...

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  25. This makes a lot of sense by miracle69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So by messing with the scratch protection algorithms in most CD players, it makes the CD less durable.

    Doesn't this increase the consumer's need to rip it immediately?

    --
    Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
  26. Amazon $13.49 + Ship / iTunes $9.99 by XavierItzmann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    iTunes AAC (mpeg 4)
    - burn it unlimited times to unlimited CD's
    - back it up to HD, to CD, to DVD, to floppy, if you must
    - copy it to unlimited iPod's
    - copy it to unlimited PCs, play it on up to 5 simultaneously
    - stream it to up to 5 machines from one Mac or PC
    - hook it wirelessly with lossless audio via optical connectors to your home stereo with Airport Express

    Copy-Protected Optical Media
    - play it in only one place, once at a time
    - scratch it once, lose it forever
    - repeat after me: it is not a CD if it is not Redbook


    So which one are you going to buy?



    --
    The next pasture is always greener
    1. Re:Amazon $13.49 + Ship / iTunes $9.99 by nsayer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Under the iTunes section you left out...

      - Run it through hymn and dedrm and suddenly there are no more limitations at all.

      But of course that would also require adding to the physical CD section...

      - Careful use of either a sharpie or your PC's shift key and suddenly there are no more limitations at all.

      And as long as we're categorizing plusses and minuses, you left out the CD booklet/liner notes as a plus for the physical version. I don't know if I'd suggest that it's worth $3.50 + shipping, but it is at least a + compared to the iTMS.

  27. C'mon, guys. Less raving! It's MediaMax. by Trillan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find it funny reading all these outraged posts about how the disc is not valid red book, etc, etc.

    The protection on this disc is very light, and will really only catch the casual user. If you know what you're doing, it's very easy to bypass.

    I find this protection a breath of fresh air. It is almost as if the publisher is saying "Here. If you know enough to bypass this, presumably you understand copyright law and won't swap files." No scheme will stop a dedicated cracker, so they offer one that doesn't even try. In fact, the publishers even acknowledge it isn't a very secure scheme. Yes, their trust is probably naive, but that's their problem not mine.

    See this article for a description of MediaMax.

  28. This is quite Funny by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SunnComm rips off the record companies by selling them a copy protection scheme that doesn't actually work.

    The record gets passed around on all the file sharing networks and usenet newsgroups.

    This free advertising results in increased sales, driving the record to number 1.

    The pointy-haired bosses at the record company believe that the increased sales prove that the copy protection scheme is working and issue congratulatory press release.

  29. Sure, I bought it by FullCircle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But I did hold down the shift key when I put the CD in. Then I ripped it, packed away the original, and proceeded to play it from my home entertainment system of choice, my computer.

    Do I share it? Hell no. I'm a huge fan of Scott Weiland and would never do that to him. The CD was worth $14 to me and then some, but I did think twice about buying it after reading the notice on the cover. I seriously thought about downloading it out of spite.

    If I would have unknowingly had their software installed on my computer that blocked a function, I'd be just as pissed at them as I am at people who write viruses.

    This is just another "legal" virus like Gator, Real Player, Comet Cursor...

    --
    If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
    1. Re:Sure, I bought it by Trillan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Calling it a legal virus is pretty insightful, IMO.

      So will antivirus programs start blocking it? If so, when?

  30. Re:It's not acceptance... by 0racle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I buy a CD and it plays in my CD player, I don't care if its copy protected or not, It will be accepted as long as it works as advertised.

    Its been said before but its valid every time, what seems important on Slashdot to the majority of people here isn't important to the majority of people in the real world.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  31. Defeating the SunnComm protection. by bigwayne · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm not sure if this has been posted, nor am I sure if I'm breaking any laws by posting it. If I am, I'm sorry, and before the mods delete this post, its wrong to install stuff on computers without asking, its just common sense.

    1. Insert the CD and let the software run if you haven't already.

    2. Remove the CD and restart your computer without the CD installed.

    3. Enter the Device Manager (Right-click on My Computer-> Properties-> Hardware Tab-> Device Manager.

    4. From the View menu, select Devices by Connection, then select Show Hidden Devices.

    5. Scroll down and find the device called "SbcpHid", right-click and DISABLE it.

    6. Close Device Manager, Windows should ask you to reboot, say Yes.

    This will disable the protection, allowing you to listen to the CD using Windows Media Player, you can even rip the songs to MP3 for backup without the garble.

    --
    400 Person LAN for Charity: Zion LAN 2005
  32. Re:But.. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Informative

    What difference does that make? There's a sticker on my parents' VCR that says "long play" and another that says "Nicam Stereo" but neither of them has a clue what either of those things mean.

    Just because people have bought something that doesn't mean that they have fully understood every aspect of what they've bought. Just as my parents don't appreciate the full functionality of their VCR most CD purchasers don't appreciate the restrictions attached to these copy-protected "CD"s*.

    (* Technically these copy-protected discs aren't CDs, because they don't meet the red book standards, hence my use of quotation marks.)

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  33. Re:Does it stop LInux? by very · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll keep you posted, I have yet to try it on the Linux box.

    Yes, I listen to Guns N' Roses back in the late 80's and early 90's.

    I talked to Duff (the bass player) when he was working with John Taylor (Duran Duran), Steve Jones (The Sex Pistols), and Matt Sorrum on Neurotic Outsiders album.

    Yes I also listen to Stone Temple Pilot.

    Yes, I've heard of Wasted Youth

    But I am not really anticipating anything of Velvet Revolver.

    The main reason I bought Velvet Revolver CD is because it was previously reported that the CD would be Copy Protected. I just want to find out if I still can rip them.

    As for 200,000+ other people, they love this so called "supergroup"

    Well, I ripped the whole CD on my Mac with no problems at all.

    Once again, I have yet to try it on the Linux OS.
    I'll find out about it tomorrow.

  34. Re:Hilarious by Edgewize · · Score: 4, Informative

    needless to say, I didn't like them very much and propmptly deleted the music files (within 24 hours i assure you!)

    Please stop perpetuating the 24-hour myth. Length of posession has absolutely nothing to do with copyright law. 30 seconds is just as illegal as 24 hours.

  35. Re:Can EAC copy it? by The-Bus · · Score: 5, Informative
    Well, here's what I can surmise so far...

    The CD has an auto-load software (which loads seemingly even when you ask windows to NOT load it for you). Software asks you to agree or disagree to a EULA. If you disagree it ejects the CD. If you agree (I haven't) it presumably installs some sort of mal-ware.

    If you let it auto-load it will load the software into memory, even once you take the CD out (and will probably do so whenever you accept the EULA* and it installs permanently).

    The apparent workaround I found for Windows was just to have the CD in the drive and reboot. No loading, EAC extracts it just fine without errors. This, (pay attention RCA Records / BMG ) then lets me have fair use the CD as my rights and the law allow . The CD I bought, I can now listen to on my computer. What does this do?

    Well, let's see. I can:
    1. Download the album. (Very easy)
    2. Buy the CD (difficult but I do it because I want to support the artists). Then spend an extra 5-15 minutes to see how to circumvent it? Don't make my choice easier.

    Here's some info from the back of the CD (which I have in my lap right now): "Digital files on this CD will also play on portable players supporting secure WMA files." It also says it requires 98/2000/XP.

    Oh yeah, accessing the CD via Explorer crashes Windows. I keep sending Error Reports to Microsoft...

    The CD also has a fun little "introduction" in "cool guy" terms... Excerpts here:
    Welcome to your new "Expanded Experience" compact disc.

    This CD utilizes exclusive Cd3 technology by SunnComm, Inc. to "open the door" to exciting new dimensions of digital entertainment. You're about to experience Compact Disc entertainment like you never have before.

    You've probably already noticed our "Expanded Experience Ladybug Logo". Whenever you see that logo, it's your assurance that you've purchased a legitimate, first-quality CD with the added bonus features of Cd3 technology. You get to experience the music just the way the artist intended.

    While this CD will play automatically in any standard CD player, it does require specific digital files to play on your computer. To insure optimum quality and playability of all of the content included on this CD, the CD is configured to automatically run a quick series of simple functions, including a search for the proper digital "keys" for this system, and the automatic copying of your music onto your computer's hard drive. In other words, the CD does all your set-up work for you!

    AT NO TIME DURING THESE PROCESSES WILL DATA BE COLLECTED ABOUT YOU OR YOUR COMPUTER

    Note: Your computer must have a software music player capable of playing protected Windows Media Audio and Windows Media Video (WMA & WMV), such as Microsoft Windows Media Player Version 7. If you do not have such a player, please visit the following website to obtain an upgrade:

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/do wn load/default.asp

    The CD will access and deliver your digital keys and content via a secure music delivery system. Just let the CD "do it's thing", then kick back and enjoy the ride!

    ________________________________________
    The EULA on the CD (emphasis mine):

    BMG DIGITAL CONTENT END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

    This CD contains digital music files and related content (Digital Content) as a bonus for you, the End User (End User or you). Access to the Digital Content requires digital keys that are downloaded to your computer system via a secure digital key delivery system. Your acceptance of this End User License Agreement (Agreement or EULA) is required for these digital keys to be downloaded and for you to use the bonus Digital Content. At your option you may copy the digital content to your computer system. This audio compact disc utilizes MediaMax technology by SunnComm to deliver enhanced features to your c

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  36. Re:But.. by Nerd4News · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hmmmm, the sticker is missing from the copy I downloaded from usenet. Try again SunnComm and BMG.

  37. How to use the Line In feature: by IchBinDasWalross · · Score: 5, Informative

    For people who don't speak Babelfish:

    Get a cable which you can plug into your CD (Note: "real Compact Discs" don't ever have DRM) playing device of choice. It should have a male port on both ends. Plug one into your microphone port, the other into your CD player. Open a device (for example, sound recorder) and click record. Hit "Play" a half second later so you don't cut off anything. After the song finishes, stop the recording, clip off parts from the beginning and end, and save as a .wav file.

    With your .wav, run it though a program for audio compression, maybe MKW audio compreesion toolkit. Then, distribute it to as many of your friends as possible.

    MKW = http://www.etree.org/mkw.html

    --
    Mod "Overrated" instead of replying "I disagree with you," you coward.
    1. Re:How to use the Line In feature: by tempfile · · Score: 5, Informative

      By using the Microphone port, you could very well blow the microphone preamplifier on your sound card. Use the Line In jack instead.

    2. Re:How to use the Line In feature: by atomic-penguin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And what about those of us who don't want the undesirable degradation in quality from going digital -> analog -> digital?

      1. mp3 is a lossy format there would be no noticable loss encoding it for a portable mp3 player, and playing it back on headphones.

      2. IANAL, but copyright law has always allowed one copy for backup purposes.

      --
      /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
  38. Re:But.. by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RTFA. There is a sticker on the CD that its copy protected.

    Does the label bother to mention that it isn't actually a CD, or are they merely relying on consumer ignorance, such as that you display in your post in calling it such?

    Are the stores stocking it in their normal manner for CDs, instead of in a seperate section as they should? Not doing so could well be considered consumer fraud by the retailers, it might not be out of line to drop a line to sundry Attorney's General if such is the case.

    KFG

  39. You can rip it in Mac OS X by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ya, folks have been able to rip this CD in OS X. Pop it in, load up iTunes, click import, done. :)

    But hey, could always buy this album online from the ITMS (and, possibly, sprinkle a bit of PlayFair on your download ;) )

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
  40. ripping to iPod works fine by rfernand79 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, the fact that it did well on the charts has more to do with Slash and Duff McKagan together again, sans Axl Rose. As far as ripping, it works fine on a mac... no problems whatsoever. Oh! And the album is also available at the iTunes music store, so you have the option of buying it cheaper and not having to rip it anyway.

  41. The REAL Reason for Sales by tweakt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The music is actually good. Whoah, crazy thought, I know.

    Next, they'll be claiming that the sales is actually due to the copy protection. My first instinct when reading this story was to download it and see if I liked it.

    Since it's selling, it must be worth buying. Hence more people download it, like it a lot, and buy it! Wow... what a concept.

    Oh, and the copy 'protection' doesn't work. Broken via any number of simple means no doubt, but the simple truth is, there are no less than FIVE torrents for the full albumn right now on my favorite tracker site.

    Hehe.. funny.

    Meanwhile, I've taken this whole issue a bit less seriously, especially when the there are more pressing issues to worry about going in the world today. Nobody is being killed for copyright violations (yet?).

  42. Copy protection only seems to work with Windows by GreatDrok · · Score: 3, Informative

    My wife bought a copy protected CD and wanted to copy it to MD but the MD recorder refused. Under Windows if you played it you got some crufty 48Khz WMA file, never the full 16 bit PCM. On my Mac however, I was able to rip the disc to iTunes as straight WAV and then burn her an unprotected version of the CD. She then used this to record her MD. I have yet to see a disc that the Mac can't copy.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
  43. Re:right... by orthogonal · · Score: 5, Insightful
    the music swapping types are bound to find a way around this one, im (sic) sure

    Yes, holding down the Shift key to prevent the DRM from being auto-played and auto-installed does the trick.

    And if you scroll down, you'll see literally dozens of comments from Slashdotters crowing about how easily they ripped this CD to MP3 or Ogg or ACC or whatever format suits them.

    And what that means is the RIAA has won this round.

    What do I mean by that? This CD is a trap, and everybody who is crowing about how easy it is to circumvent its copy-protection has fallen into the trap.

    The trap consists of two parts: one, as Mr. Roadkill (731328) explains here, because circumvention is so easy there will not be any en masse returns of this CD. BMG will declare that the public doesn't mind copy-protection because there will be few complaints or returns, and its massive sales given the publicity BMG is giving to this release. And with that they've slipped in the thin edge of the wedge, begun accustomizing us to copy-protection.

    But more than just copy-protection: as The-Bus (138060) demonstrates by copying the entire CD EULA, BMG will also
    • slip in DRM keys "personalized" to your computer and, to add insult to injury,
    • get you to agree to a license, for Christ's sake, in order to listen to music,
    • and agree to listen to the music only on a personal computer (and presumably not a work computer, and surely not an MP3 player) (EULA paragraph 1.1)
    • and agree that your right to use the "digital content" lapses if you lose the physical CD (EULA paragraph 1.2)
    • and agree as well to give up your right (EULA, paragraph 1.4) to make a back-up copy of purchased software.


    They're not just sipping in the DRM keys; they're slipping in a whole different legal interpretation in which to understand CDS, an interpretation that emphasizes licensing instead of purchasing.

    And that's just the first part of the trap.

    The second part of the trap is even more insidious: BMG has purposely used a trivially simple and already well known to be easily circumvented copy-protection in order to encourage you to circumvent it.

    Why would BMG do that? So they can point out all the happy, crowing, boasting circumventors to the Congress, call all the people holding down a Shift key "hackers" (indeed SunnCom's already said they don't expect this to be "unhackable"), and thus justify legislation to made DRM mandatory. "See what those hackers did, Senator? They hack our state-of-the-art copy-protection, those evil wizarsds! That's why we must make a hardware copyright bit mandatory on all new CD and CD-ROM players!"

    Every time you think you've scored a point by managing to rip this CD, all you've done is to further play yourself -- and you liberties -- into the hands of BMG and the RIAA. You're given them a precedents to point to and a spurious "threat" to whine to Congress about. Who's really winning here?
  44. The proper way to deal with this by HuguesT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In true civil desobedience fashion, the proper way to make decision makers understand that they are wasting their time is to:

    1- purchase the CD
    2- Optional: rip & copy it
    3- return it and get a refund because it doesn't play on your equipment.

    (2) is optional. The proper and law-abiding way is to not rip that CD.

    If the return rate goes to around 10% or so I think the message will be pretty clear.

  45. Not quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    The working class has far more total wealth than the upper class just because there's so many more working class people. That money is mostly held as corporate shares, either through CDs at the bank (the bank re-invests that money) or mutual funds.

    Google answer summary of wealth distribution in the US

    and a nice Pie chart distribution of wealth

  46. -1, Uncapitalist by Everleet · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I suppose that if they only stop the lowest common denominator from doing the unauthorized copying its good enough for them.

    This strongly suggests that the "protection" exists solely to undermine legitimate personal use. There is no possible anti-piracy use for preventing only half (?) of your users from format-shifting. They know as well as we do that there will be the same amount of internet piracy of the album whether it has this protection or not.

    THEREFORE, it's time to entertain theories as to what their real motive is. The two that spring to mind are:

    1. Marketing/Publicity - the album was probably mentioned in the article, and some people may not have so dutifully forgotten it on sight...just about anything that gets the name into our vision will make them more money.
    2. Image of Authority - these schemes serve primarily to remind people, every time they use a product, that the originator of that product is, and always will be, its owner. You will use the product how they want it to be used, whether their demands make sense or not...you have no say, you accept their terms or you don't get your fix. Every bit of hassle they put you through only makes you more willing to accept this arrangement, so it is in the media trusts' best interest to create hassle for that purpose alone.

    Ultimately they're clawing for all the mindshare they can get, because they only really exist as long as you believe in them.

    --
    It's tragic. Laugh.
  47. easy choice - the CD please by real_smiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    well, if i was going to pay for it, i'd take the Copy-Protected Optical Media and bypass the copy protection - half price with free postage from any of the nice websites i know. it's lossless music i can do what i want with and a physical product that lasts and has $ value. no i'm not trolling, but i don't think that was +4 insightful. not for me and i'm sure plenty of others anyway.

    --

    This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

  48. Re:all it takes... by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have professional music production gear (Layla 8in/10out). Playing a CD and recording it on my gear would give as good a sound as a digital rip. The only hassle is it takes much longer to rip, compress the files, then title them. I'd still do it to have my music in unemcumbered digital form, but I'd rather avoid such measures and CD's when possible. But as stated, it only takes 1 person like me to tip the apple cart over and all their stupid protections are as vapour in the air.

    --
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
  49. Re:Maybe not by cowbutt · · Score: 4, Informative
    I believe there is a fair degree of truth to the old maxim "5% of the worlds population owns 95% of the wealth". You and I and the others here are not likely to be in that 5%.

    Actually, if you live in the west, and work with computers, you probably are .

    --

  50. That BMG contract misses the "return for a refund" by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "But more than just copy-protection: as The-Bus (138060) demonstrates by copying the entire CD EULA, BMG will also slip in DRM keys "personalized" .... "

    Surely, the whole claim behind these EULAs is that you can change the terms AFTER the sale, if the contract gives you the option of returning the product for a full refund.
    The refund is suposed to make it comparable to a sale.

    This BMG contract says "if you don't agree, don't play it" not "if you don't agree return it for a full refund".
    So they're not even putting a pretence of making this legal.

  51. Re:Maybe not by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Funny

    The flaw in that statement was when you got to the word `work'. This is Slashdot, after al...

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  52. Easy way to tell? by not_a_product_id · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm with you on this. I don't have any copies of CDs and I'm boycotting anything with DRM on it but I'm wondering if there's an easy way to check (without trying to copy the CD) whether or not it's DRM'd? If I don't see the CD Audio logo on the disc then I'm suspicious but I'm not sure I can count on that. Anyone know of an easy way to know for sure?

    --

    ---
    We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience

  53. Re:wording of the prompt by Rhubarb+Crumble · · Score: 5, Funny
    but if it's not clear & honest these companies should be taken to court for lying to people

    What strange ideas are these? Take companies to court for lying to people? For a start you would bankrupt the advertising industry, not to meantion the tobacco, food (not just fast/junk) and pharmaceutical industries as well, leading to thousands of job losses and the collapse of the economy.

    Are you a communist or something? Companies lying to people is the American Way, capitalism was built by snake-oil salesmen!

  54. Just checked, you can download this already as MP3 by ScottGant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this post may get lost in the shuffle, but I just checked with a few sources online and low-and-behold there is the entire album in MP3 waiting to be downloaded by anyone and everyone that knows where to find it.

    So much for copy-protected CD's. Why do they even waste their time with this non-sense? Instead of trying to figure out how to fool the copiers...why not turn the entire buisness model upside down and encourage downloading the album and then making the money back from live shows?

    You know 60 years or so ago artists made their money from live shows or live broadcasts on the radio. They can do this again.

    I could go on and on about this. People may argue about how the guy sitting in his bedroom making music and recording and pouring his heart out into making a CD is being ripped-off if people just download it. Well, that guy sitting there probably has a passion for music and would be making music anyway...and giving it to the community afterwards is much like Open Source programming. How many programmers from around the world slave over code to make something that they're not getting a dime from? I feel that music in the future can somehow learn from Open Source. How exactly, I don't know yet.

    --

    "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
  55. Re:Sheeple by Microlith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the RIAA wouldn't have succeeded with screwing everyone to the tune of $10-12 profit (or more) on every CD they paid a whopping $1.25 to manufacture and package.

    Because as every slashbot knows, there's no more cost to the production of any given music cd than the cost to press it.

  56. SunnComm's anti-copying scheme must be a joke by KnottDotHead · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All the songs from Velvet Revolvers album Contraband were avaliable in P2P-ville at high quality variable bit rates before it was released to the public. Many CD's find their way onto the P2P networks day's, weeks or a couple of months before they're officialy released to the public.

  57. Actually, this one *IS* a standard CD. by Otto · · Score: 3, Informative

    You bougth something, expecting it to be a standard CD. (reasonable, given that the copy-protection is typically poorly marked, and the CDs stacked up on racks intermixed with the non-CDs) That is, you gave away money, reasonably expecting to get a CD for it that would play in any machine capable of playing CDs.

    Well, in point of fact, these new Velvet Revolver CD's *ARE* standard CD's. They conform to the Blue Book Standard for hybrid CD Audio/Data discs. They'll play in any CD player, even that MP3-CD player.

    The only copy protection here is a data track with some software and an autorun. Install the software, it fucks with your CD drivers when you try to rip. That's it. Hold SHIFT to bypass, or disable the autorun, or when the screen comes up that says "An upgrade is required", hit Cancel. Yes, you can actually *cancel* the installation on this sucker.

    So as far as the record exec thinking that people approve of CD Protection mechanisms, maybe he means that people approve of easily disabled protection mechanisms. ;-)

    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:Actually, this one *IS* a standard CD. by GoldMace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, can you sue the band or the record company for attempting to install a virus on your computer? Actually, isn't that a criminal offence? Scott Weiland's used to being in jail isn't he?

    2. Re:Actually, this one *IS* a standard CD. by darkfire5252 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Step 1: Bring up the subject of DRM, and suggest making it a standard way of copy protecting music. The techno-crowd gets in an uproar.

      Step 2: Let it quiet down.

      Step 3: Bring up the idea of specially made CDs, and suggest making it a standard. The techno-crowd gets pissy.

      Step 4: Let it quiet down.

      Step 5: Tag a 'hot new artist's' CD with an easily circumventable protection scheme. The techno-crowd gets slightly upset, but chuckles at the ineptitude of the massive RIAA.

      Step 6: Make it standard. The techno-crowd complains, but follows with its trend of complaining only to the techno-crowd.

      Step 7: Between driver updates, firmware updates, windows upgrades and media upgrades remove the 'easily circumventable' part. The fact that CDs have 'always had some sort of copy protection' removes ANY legal barrier the RIAA may have had. Who would oppose making the existing copy protection work better? Only the pirates, that's who.

      Step 8?

      Profit.

  58. Why DRM will fail... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The purpose behind DRM confused me. There is no doubt that Velvet Revolver's music was readily available on the net for free before the CD was even released. Thus, any so-called pirate was able to get it with no problem.

    There is also no doubt, as seen above, that the DRM was easily circumvented.

    There is also no doubt, that those who legitimately bought the CD and respect the digital millennium copyright act, are screwed. They are unable to convert their newly bought CD to a different format, even though doing so is perfectly legal under the fair use laws of the US.

    Considering there is no doubt as to the utter failure of DRM, as shown above, I was perplexed at why it exists. I had trouble finding the answer as I was looking at it logically. The answer to my question is that there is no logical basis for DRM as it is necessarily true that DRM fails stops so-called pirates and screws legitimate buyers.

    So what's the answer? I've determined that when confronted by a problem, it is felt by most people that doing something is necessarily better than doing nothing. This is seen as true even when the result of that something is worse than if nothing was done in the first place. Even when that happens, when doing something exacerbates the problem, people will say in defense of their screw up, "Hey, at least I did something!"

    This psychological mindset is at play in relation to DRM. The morons in charge of the music industry see so-called piracy as a problem. They can either do something or do nothing. Even though DRM causes more problems, i.e., screwing over legitimate buyers while not putting any dent in so called piracy, they continue doing that something because they feel that doing nothing would somehow be worse. And that's despite all the evidence that clearly shows that DRM is actually worse.

    This is why I think DRM will eventually fail. Over time those in power will see the futility of their "something" and do something else to solve any problems associated with so called piracy.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  59. Re:It's a clear "win, win" situation by h4rm0ny · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm probably missing a few more reasons here too but the point is they aren't always as obvious as we would think.

    I can think of an obvious one: Making money by selling flawed technology to CEOs who don't understand it.

    Don't assume omniscience on the part of the music industry execs. You may think they're big fish, but there are smaller and smarter fish ready to scavenge from their kills. ;)

    Somwhere, somebody has made a lot of money from selling copy protection software, whether it works or not.

    --

    Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.