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Microsoft Word 5.1: The Apex of Word Processing

angkor writes "'Word 5.1 is 13 years old in 2004. Many people still swear by it. Powerful features, stable application, without bloat. Nirvana by Microsoft. It's been all downhill from there...' I always thought WordPerfect 5.1 was pretty good as well. I still use it alongside my OfficeXP."

133 of 591 comments (clear)

  1. Swear by? by paulhar · · Score: 5, Funny

    or at...

  2. Strange... by Psychor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Odd how people swear by Word 5.1, when all I seem to manage with Word XP is to swear at it.

    1. Re:Strange... by nocomment · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd swear by openoffice, but I'm still waiting for it to finish loading.

      --
      /* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
      /* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
    2. Re:Strange... by Alan · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd swear by openoffice but I'm still waiting for it to finish compiling. /gentoo

    3. Re:Strange... by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 2, Informative

      (Just to be fair)

      I compile OOo on this machine from source when there's a new version (instead of using the binaries). The last update's compile time was 335 minutes.

      $ uname -a Linux aragorn 2.4.25-gentoo-r2 #2 Mon May 31 12:54:31 EDT 2004 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    4. Re:Strange... by ignorant_newbie · · Score: 5, Informative

      you may not have any MSOffice _windows_ running, but I'll bet you a copy of Office XP that if you check your 'startup items' folder, you'll find that office is preloading it'self at boot.

      This isn't a bad thing, Just be aware of it when making comparisions. OOo is taking longer because it's not already there.

  3. asdf by professorhojo · · Score: 5, Funny

    I gave up on word the day I clicked on a menu and an hourglass appeared. :(

    1. Re:asdf by lacrymology.com · · Score: 5, Funny

      "I gave up on word the day I clicked on a menu and an hourglass appeared."

      Well, Word has come quite a long way since then... they've upgraded to a really cool spinning rainbow disk now.
      -m

      --

      #
      # Modus Ponens
      #
    2. Re:asdf by njm · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd suggest that you never give Emacs a try, then!

    3. Re:asdf by TheLink · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe MS has stolen Openoffice code? ;)

      --
  4. 5.1 for Mac by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Informative
    In case anyone's confused (since Word for Windows jumped from Word 2 to Word 6 without any inbetween versions - take that Slackware!), this article is about Word 5.1 for Mac.

    There was probably a DOS Word 5 too.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:5.1 for Mac by iocat · · Score: 5, Informative
      Word 5.1 was ok for a Microsoft product, but serious Mac word processors always used the blisteringly fast WriteNow (originally by T/Maker, later published by TLC). It was done in 68000 assembly and originally started as an Apple funded project which was a hedge against the possibility that MacWrite might not get done in time for the Macintosh launch.

      In addition to the fastest word count ever seen (essential if you're a journalist), it also came with really well written and funny manuals. Even emulated on the first PowerMacs, it ran circles around WORD and had great line spacing abilities (essential if you're a student trying to hit a page count).

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    2. Re:5.1 for Mac by hawkfish · · Score: 3, Informative

      WriteNow was written by Heidi Rozen's company. IIRC, the company was made up of all the female Macintosh engineers of the time who were both competent and attractive. The reason was supposedly that Heidi (quite a looker herself) had created an environment where they could just be engineers without having to worry about being constantly hit upon at work.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    3. Re:5.1 for Mac by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 5, Informative

      Microsoft Word for DOS 5.5a is available for free download from Microsoft here.

      To install run "wd55_ben -d" after downloading, then run setup.exe

      No, I have no idea why it's available for free download, but there it is,
      free for all comers apparently.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
  5. Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by Pxtl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WP peaked at 5.1, Word peaked at 5.1 - any other products for which 5.1 was the magic version number?

    1. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by mikeburke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MS-DOS .. well, I *think* they had a 5.1 .. :)

    2. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by betelgeuse-4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Surround sound? I know it's a different context, but many people say they can't hear the difference between 5.1 and the ones with even more speakers. (I'm happy with a decent pair of headphones)

    3. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by The_K4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is VERY noticable, especially in the scene where Trinity kicks the Cop's Asses. You can HEAR her run around the walls...... :)

    4. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by lacrymology.com · · Score: 5, Funny

      Gator eWallet version 5.1 was the pinnacle of scumware.

      -m

      --

      #
      # Modus Ponens
      #
    5. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by betelgeuse-4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hearing is very subjective. If I can't hear the difference between two systems I might as well buy the cheaper one, if you can, then by all means go for the more expensive one. But I shouldn't waste my money on a difference that only you can hear.

    6. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by bmwm3nut · · Score: 2, Informative

      adding more speakers really only increases the size of the "sweet spot" where everything sounds great. really all you need is 2.1 (i still think you need to have the extra low frequency speaker because you get better responce if the speakers are set up for a narrow range of frequencies) because you only have two ears and your brain uses volume and phase information to tell you where the sound came from. however, with a 2.1 system you only have one spot where this works perfectly. that's why 5.1 usually sounds better, the sound is projected from more than one place, so the probability of being in the sweet spot is larger, likewise with 7.1.

      my bose lifestyle came with head mounted microphones that i wore while setting up the speakers. the system played sounds and adjusted volume and phase of the speakers so that where i was sitting was a sweet spot. with 5 speakers, there are 5 degrees of freedom and i can choose up to 5 spots. with 7 speakers, i imagine that you could have 7 spots. the cool thing is that you can really tell when you're in a sweet spot or not. my gf and i were watching T3 yesterday and i comented that the sound was actually better than the (crappy) theater that i originally saw it in. she wasn't impressed. so we switched listening positions (on the same couch) and the sound was definatley worse where she was sitting. that was because when i originally set up the speakers the couch was in a different place. i've since reconfigured the system, and is sounds great again.

    7. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by tekunokurato · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um, I thought the matrix dvd only had 5.1 and back...

    8. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by schemanista · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's a matrixed channel?

      Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrixed channel is. You have to hear it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes...

      --
      I saw that shot more than a few times back when Starbuck was a man. ~ lucabrasi999
    9. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by The_K4 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, but if you have a reciever with a good DSP it can "fill in" and you can hear Trinity run from the FR speaker to the F to the FL to the L to the RL. It's also amazing how even w/ 2 channel input (radio) a good DSP can move the singer to 70% the center/F speakers and 30% everywhere else and do the inverse on the "music" and give you a very emersive enviroment from 2 channel. That's why many of the 7.1 recievers are $$ more then the 5.1, they have DSPs to do cool things and acutally use all 7 of the speakers.

    10. Re:Interesting - 5.1 the magic version number? by The_K4 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's only 1/2 the story. The sound is also diectional, meaning that a sound from the FL can "immitate" a sound from the RL, but not as well as if you have a RL speaker, and while it's doing the job of 2 speakers (a RL and a FL) it has some intereaction of those signals (which can lead to destructive interference). If you want to see want I mean get rid of 3 of you speakers and let your bose system "reset" using the mic. Then watch T3. You will see that the rear sounds arn't as good as with the 5 speaker set up. Adding 7 gives you that much more distinction between the side and rear signals.

  6. fact by Barbarian · · Score: 5, Funny

    MS Word jumped from like 2.0 to 5.1 to "catch up" with Wordperfect.

    1. Re:fact by donnyspi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just like Netscape jumping from 4 to 6 to match IE6

    2. Re:fact by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually Netscape built a version 5, they just didn't release it.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:fact by reimero · · Score: 4, Informative

      That may have played a role, but for a short time, Microsoft distinguished between Word for DOS and Word for Windows. Word for DOS was generally at around the same version as WordPerfect, while Word for Windows had seperate numbering. The jump also reconciled the differences in Microsoft's own version numbering, and taken in context with the DOS product, it was actually a "normal" progression (which, I believe, was actually at Word 6 and not Word 5.1. Winword 2 and Word 5.5 were concurrent, IIRC.)

      --

      ----------

      Something clever
    4. Re:fact by wolrahnaes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Just like Netscape jumping from 4 to 6 to match IE6"

      From the Ars Technica interview with Scott Collins:
      "We had a 'Netscape 5' that was within weeks of being ready to go, and this person said that we needed to ship something based on Gecko within 6 months instead.....And we didn't get out a 5.0, and that cost of us everything."

      Netscape 5 was almost done, but one PHB convinced the other Netscape execs that trashing it and releasing a Gecko-based browser (Netscape 6) would be better.

      One more example of how one idiot can trash a whole company. By the time that Netscape 6 was out, all but the die-hards had switched to IE or Opera.

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    5. Re:fact by DavidBrown · · Score: 5, Funny

      So, Apple changed the numbering system on their OS. They went from OS-9 to OS-X, completely skipping OS's A through W.

      Goddamn hypocrites.

      --
      144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
  7. Spell check by JPriest · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The only one feature I use in MS Office or OpenOffice on my home desktop is spell check. The main problem I have with OO.o being slow to start is that I am never using it for longer than 5 seconds. If I had an ASCII gedit or notepad (spellpad) with spell check I wouldn't even need an office suite on my home desktop.

    Sure many people use them for more then that, but you might be suprised how many don't

    --
    Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    1. Re:Spell check by niko9 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Have you tried Abiword?

      Small, fast, light and with spellcheck. Will let you save as .doc also, which lets me print out all my papers at school wheer they only have windos and mac boxes.

    2. Re:Spell check by Charles+Dart · · Score: 4, Funny

      Being a horible speler I love that with osx it spell checks your online form enteries. I used to rite them up in a word procesor frist so I could sple check. Now I just hit [apple][shift}[;] It works great!

    3. Re:Spell check by praxim · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If I had an ASCII gedit or notepad (spellpad) with spell check I wouldn't even need an office suite on my home desktop.


      gedit, assuming you're referring to the GNOME app, has a spellcheck plugin (Edit -> Preferences -> Plugins; F7 to check, also see the Tools menu for autocheck).
  8. WordPerfect 5.1 by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I have a friend, an attorney, who swears by Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS. He runs it in a dos box and uses Ghostscript and redirection to convert to PDFs and fax.

    I prefer the document coding that they switched to with 6 -- splitting the font size from font selection codes.

    1. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by Goo.cc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, I still use DBase IV. Sometimes you just have to still with what works.

    2. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is common in the legal profession. WordPerfect somehow became the standard there, while Word took over everywhere else.

    3. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by fons · · Score: 2, Informative

      A lot of accounting and file-management software in this profession is heavily integrated with Wordperfect 5.1 (and Novell). This software is also VERY expensive. So why buy the new version if the old one works great.

    4. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by josquin00 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The legal team for a former employer of mine claimed that WordPerfect has a far better redlining system. If you've worked with a laywer, they live and die by redlining.

    5. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by tigersha · · Score: 2, Informative

      My dad still uses Dbase IV with an app he wrote on Xenix on a 286. It still runs every day without a hitch

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    6. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by angkor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, I still use the macros in WordPerfect 5.1 to manipulate all kinds of text. While not intuitive, once you learned the controls you could write macros as fast as you could think them.
      When they went to WordPerfect 6 it was a Word-like (non-DOS box) like interface and they changed all the key combination shortcuts driving existing users crazy. Eventually they came out with WordPerfect 5.2 which had many of the improvements of 6 (like cutting and pasting between macro windows), but kept the 5.1 interface. I've been looking for 5.2 for years, but can't find a copy to 'update' my nearly 15 year old copy of 5.1!

    7. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by kalidasa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Having worked with redlining myself (not for an attorney, but for a publications department that needed it), I can confirm that. To this day, it's much easier to mark the margins of a highlighted paragraph with asterisks and the like in WordPerfect (just a format attributed) than Word (text box).

      There are other things in WordPerfect that are helpful to attorneys, too. It's a shame that every version of WordPerfect since 8.0 has s*&^ed.

    8. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by dosius · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can set it up to look mostly like 5.1 (use text mode; for a 5.0 appearance turn off the drop-down menus), and use the 5.1 keybindings. I find 6's use of F1 for Help more intuitive (it's F3 in 5.x; but in 5.1 it can be configured to use F1), ditto Esc=Cancel vs. F1=Cancel.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    9. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      WordPerfect became standard because it provided needed features that Word didn't (and in some cases still doesn't). It wasn't just a matter of "lawyers did this for some kooky reason".

      Such as: Decent SGML support. Legally correct document word counts! Complete control over document coding via reveal codes. Onscreen document actually matches printed document (Word 2003 sometimes even screws up here--WYSIWYG my ass), and built-in PDF creation support. Yes, it's a little flaky from time to time, but if there's no other word processor offering the features you need, you hardly have a choice, do you?

    10. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by pknoll · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is common in the legal profession. WordPerfect somehow became the standard there, while Word took over everywhere else.

      That "somehow" was: WordPerfect deliberately included specific features that were helpful/necessary to the production of legal documents. Word (at the time) didn't.

      WordPerfect also heavily courted the medical industry the same way, but to a lesser degree of success.

    11. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 by Reziac · · Score: 2, Informative

      WP5.2 for DOS doesn't actually exist in the real market (I'm told there was something that was internally called WP5.2 DOS, but I've never seen it, and I sorta collect WP versions). While there was a WP5.1+ in 1994, it's not significantly changed in any subversion since the 3/91 release, which was about the point where all the bugs got cleaned out; WP5.1 is the most bug-free program I know of. And I still use WP5.1 every day. :)

      If you need an updated copy, it's most easily come by via abandonware sites, or abwi.old :)

      The macro language (always much more powerful than mere keystroke recording) was changed to fullblown compiled executables as of 6.0. The default screen for WPDOS6.x kinda looked like a wannabe GUI, but it could run in naked DOS-screen mode too. The major command keystrokes didn't change, tho -- IF you were using the *letter* keystrokes. The NUMBERS changed when new features were added. So if you were used to F for Font, it was still F, but if you'd been using 4, well, now it was 5 or 6. The manual warns you about this way back as of WP5.0. :)

      What I really want is a WPWin8 version of the WPDOS6.1 calendar macro. The current macros just don't have the features I need. I've tried importing it but can't get it to run, and I don't know the macro language well enough to fix it. :(

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  9. Heck, vi is bloatware! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's been all downhill from sed if you ask me.

    1. Re:Heck, vi is bloatware! by uucp2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      After reading this, I just had a horrible vision of ASCII Clippy integrated into vi.

    2. Re:Heck, vi is bloatware! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Funny

      After reading this, I just had a horrible vision of ASCII Clippy integrated into vi.

      Ask, and ye shall receive.

      Mwhahahahaha, mwhahahah, HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

      (Okay, so he isn't ASCII. Deal with it.)

    3. Re:Heck, vi is bloatware! by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>It's been all downhill from sed if you ask me.

      For me, it's been all downhill after ed .

      Damned bloaded stream editors....

      wbs.

      --
      Huh?
  10. It's true by ajs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By the low standards that we have set today, old versions of Word are very nice.

    Time for some band of grad students to start putting together the next generation tool that takes the bad new features out of word processing, makes the good new features more smoothly integrated with the rest and more efficient and finally that re-learns from modern users what a word-processor is for.

    That last is HARD. Word processors use to be used strictly to produce documents which would be printed. Today the primary use is for producing text documents that will be sent to others electronically that may or may not contain complex objects like images, graphs, etc.

    These are different problem domains, but separating out the one from the other and re-solving the problem correctly is never easy.

    1. Re:It's true by IntlHarvester · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm sure some people swear by it, but like all advances (Word 5.1 up to 2003, CLI to GUI, etc.) it's really more a form of nostalgia than praise.

      This might be true, but Word 5.1 was essentially Feature Complete -- there's nothing that you can do in Word 11 that you can't do just as easily in Word 5.1 running on a 2MB Mac Plus. The style and formatting model is basically identical to the modern versions.

      The only real word-processing advances in the product are real-time spell checking/correction and the extemely annoying auto-formatting. (Word5 had auto-correct, but the list wasn't prepopulated like modern versions.) And those are mainly just outgrowths of faster CPUs.

      Of course, there's also a lot of new macro and IPC features, as well as help cartoons and wizards. But for just sitting down and writing, Word 5 had it all.

      (And for the WordPerfect 5.1 fans out there, Word5 ruled for any real formatting beyond monospaced documents with only tabs & margins.)

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    2. Re:It's true by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Word processors use to be used strictly to produce documents which would be printed. Today the primary use is for producing text documents that will be sent to others electronically that may or may not contain complex objects like images, graphs, etc."

      It seems to me that this is a big problem in office suite design: We want each application to handle all sorts of media, and so the constituant applications aren't separated in a sensible way.

      I mean, if it's a word processor, let it be for typing. Let it have spell-check, thesaurus, word count, and some formatting. I've often wished for a small, light-weight app that would just type things up without worrying too much about inserting images, or even getting too complex with layout/formatting.

      I know, I can just type in wordpad.exe or something, but I lose a lot of useful (actually word-processing related) tools. And it's a bigger problem than just this. How many times have you seen people use Powerpoint for layout design single page? It's really what Publisher was designed for, but most users end up using Word or Powerpoint.

      It seems to me that an office suite should have the apps for creating content (word processor that creates text, spreadsheet program that creates a table of numbers, graphic editor that makes images, and a database) and then another application, or maybe a couple applications, that would be capable of pulling these types of data together in meaningful ways. Maybe you'd have a slide-show creater, a printed page layout-design program, a web-page creater, whatever. A program that's good at grabbing the pure text and the graphics and putting them together. A program that can take a spreadsheet, generate graphs, and make a presentation out of them.

      It just seems to me that the content-creation and the content-organization/presentation are different tasks. Not only would this address the bloat of the content-creation programs, but you could probably use this approach to improve the mixing different kinds of content from different applications, since you would have an application focussed on just that.

  11. Ancient technology by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 4, Funny
    Personally I really like Microsoft Office 2003 Professional. It gives me the power and flexibility I need without the hassle and incompability of the competitors' solutions.

    /holds up Office box and smiles

    "Microsoft Office 2003 Professional, Where do you want to go today?"

    1. Re:Ancient technology by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 2, Funny
      yes, but how much did you pay for it?

      I paid $20 for it at the university bookstore. I bought it at the same time I picked up Windows XP Pro (also $20). Now, don't get me wrong, that's a highly subsidized campus license agreement program which is ending soon... that reminds me I need to go pick up some more software! ;-)

  12. Bah! Bet it can't... by lacrymology.com · · Score: 4, Funny

    As a casual user, I simply cannot live without the ability to insert MediaPlayer G2 controls into my correspondence... therefore 5.1 will not work for me.

    -m

    --

    #
    # Modus Ponens
    #
  13. Wod Perfect 5.1 by kannibal_klown · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Word Perfect 5.1 was by far the best word processor I've ever used. I liked reading in fixed-width fonts, the color scheme was great, but most importantly it was a dream to use.

    Sure, today's word processors look fancy, and offer more intuitive styling as well as presenting what the final product will looks like. But I was more productive with WP51 than any other word processor today.

    I'm still kicking myself for losing those install disks. I'd love to still be using it today, but I'm too lazy (and law-abiding) to try to find it on the 'net. Also, I doubt it'll work with my inkjet.

  14. Microsoft Word is a crutch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For people who can't handle \LaTeX

  15. No impossible by MemoryDragon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Word 5.1 did not have clippy... the most important thing which was ever integrated into a word processor.

    1. Re:No impossible by michael+path · · Score: 4, Funny

      I see you're trying sarcasm. Would you like to:

      o Change me to a dog or cat
      o Integrate me into your web browser
      o Realize sarcasm is lost on the /. crowd

  16. Old Testament Wrath-Of-God type stuff by stinkyfingers · · Score: 5, Funny
    The best word processor ever created for a Mac was written by Microsoft? What's the I see outside my office window?

    Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria!!!!!!

  17. Not Just Word by cmacb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Same goes for the whole office suite doesn't it?

    Wasn't it possible back then to create a Powerpoint presentation that would run standalone from a floppy disk (that is, Powerpoint didn't have to be installed on the target machine)?

    I know most people carry their presentations with them on a laptop these days, but I always thought it was handy to be able to use on-site equipment if only as a backup. Now this notion only works if you install Powerpoint everywhere.

    Nevermind, I answered my own question.

    1. Re:Not Just Word by arcmay · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft has a free Powerpoint viewer available for Windows. It isn't quite small enough to fit on a floppy, but then again, neither are most of the Powerpoint presentations you're likely to come across nowadays. And it does require an install, which is pretty lame. But the point is, you don't NEED to purchase MS Office to view/print Powerpoint presentations. I use it because I don't own office and sometimes I find stuff on the web that I want to read that are only available in Powerpoint. (Google's "View as HTML" link leaves a lot to be desired.)

    2. Re:Not Just Word by LurkerXXX · · Score: 4, Informative
      Have you actually ever even installed Powerpoint???

      There is an option you can install called pack-and-go. It makes a little executable file which will show your presentation. No Powerpoint installation needed on the machine used for the presentation. It's been in every version of powerpoint I can remember using.

    3. Re:Not Just Word by rune.w · · Score: 3, Informative

      Power Point 2003 has a feature now that allows you to pack a presentation and burn it directly into a CD (or copy it to a floppy, if it's small enough) so that you don't have to carry around your laptop with you to all places.

      For instance, in my school classes were several people are giving a presentation/seminar on the same day occur quite often. It's always a pain to wait for people to carry down their laptops and plug them to the beamer, specially when it decides to stop working. This usually irritates professors, who see how class time goes down the drain, as well as bored students who want to get out of the place as quickly as possible. I 'm always quite amused to see the relief on their faces when I just plug my USB keyholder into the last person's laptop and start my presentation within 3 minutes. It makes everybody happy and I think it has had a minimal positive effect on my presentation grades as well ;)

      Quite handy if you ask me.

      R.
  18. I remember... by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A nightmare of configuring printer drivers hell in DOS Word. And that I had to burn a new EPROM in printer to support a native language characters in hardware.

    --
    There you are, staring at me again.
  19. Best Features of WordPerfect by Verity_Crux · · Score: 5, Interesting

    WordPerfect allows a simultaneous left and right align on the same line of text. Do you know how many school papers start out with a title on the left and my name on the right? That feature alone has kept me loyal to WordPerfect for twelve years. Of course, the 'Reveal Codes' feature is da bomb. It's a good mix between WYSIWYG and the bit twiddling word processors. I don't know how the average programmer can do without it.

    1. Re:Best Features of WordPerfect by NecroPuppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, but in Word Perfect, it took maybe 2 clicks. Not the 6 or so it takes in Word, if you remember what it is you need to do.

      Word Perfect also handles balanced columns, multiple column sections on the same page, and any number of other features much smoother than Office.

      And yeah, reveal codes, rocks.

      For those who don't know, it's a little box which shows all the escape codes, inserted symbols, formatting codes, etc. To change something, say column settings, all you had to do was click on the right thing, and it opened that up.

      No worries about messing up the formatting in some subtle way, which has happened all too often in Word.

      --
      I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
    2. Re:Best Features of WordPerfect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, tabstops don't quite work right for what the poster wants to do.

      Tabstops work ok if you don't later change the page margins. But, if you change the paper size or page margins, then the tabstop at the right margin is in the wrong place.

      A true left/right justify (as in the TeX \fill command) is missing from WORD.

  20. That's not why by bahamat · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Netscape codebase that would have become version 5 was released under the MPL and became Mozilla. After two years of work Mozilla 1.0 was released, upon which a new Netscape product was based. Because so much change had happened from the 5.0 codebase it was proper to version it 6.

    Netscape 5 did exist, but was never released as a product.

  21. Bloat by Goo.cc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This may be the one problem with commercial software: bloat due to features added for the sake of a new version to sell. I guess bug and security fixes just aren't sexy enough.

  22. The $100 downgrade! by John+Harrison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was in college it was common to purchase Wrod 6.0 and then pay a $100 downgrade fee in order to obtain Word 5.1a. Of course this was on the Mac, and 6.0 was an abomination on the Mac since it was an oddball port of the Windows version.

  23. Gramatica by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

    Gramatica is THE best grammar checker I have ever used. It was written by a couple of PhD's in English who happened to get into computer science fairly early on. The triviality and incorrectness of Word's current grammar checker is appalling since Gramatica did a MUCH better job 10 years ago.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  24. Eh... by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm sure some people swear by it, but like all advances (Word 5.1 up to 2003, CLI to GUI, etc.) it's really more a form of nostalgia than praise.

    For example, I recently tried to pawn off an older PC with an old Linux distribution to my little brother. It had everything most people would need: a word processor, a web browser, etc. However, the word processor didn't do mail merges (something he needed for a class), the browser didn't support Flash, etc. To me, it was functional. To him, it was "broken".

    I agree that a simple GUI is great for some people, but it isn't for everything. If there was honestly nothing that could be improved since the early versions of word processors, no one would be buying the Office/Appleworks/Corel Office applications of today.

    The fact that I had a secretary recently freak out because the CEO's name wasn't highlighted in Word and automatically showed his meeting schedule (Smart Tags), shows that people generally get used to what they're using. That's what most people reminisice about.

    1. Re:Eh... by uncitizen · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would like to disagree with you there.

      While not so old that I can remember much before Word 5.1, I do remember it quite well. For example:

      On a PowerMac 6100 w/ 8megs of RAM running system 7.5 (on a side note, 5.1 would also run an SE with only 4megs of RAM)

      Word 5.1 had a memory footprint of not more than 1 meg. It could be installed from 6 floppies and lanched in a few seconds.

      Compare to Word 6.0, which had a memory footprint of not LESS than 4 megs, took 60 seconds! to launch. Also, they "improved" the indexing feature. This part I don't remember the specifics, but I believe that 5.1's feature was like 1000 entries, while 6.0's "super great new thing" was only 100 entries.

      Mac people from them really do remember. Microsoft almost lost dominace in the Mac word processor department back then. 6.0 was a punchline to quite a few jokes, much like Windows ME is/was.

  25. WordPerfect 5 by pinkUZI · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For it's brief mention in your comment, WordPerfect 5 is much more sworn by today and enjoyed much more widespread use than Word 5. Those were the golden days - while WP was still king and before everyone switched to the word processor put out by that operating system company, what was it? - Microsoft?

    Another thing worth mentioning is that was in the day's before suites really took off - when generally you bought a word processor by itself. Not packaged with a bunch of stuff you rarely used and matched with a bloated price. You would also buy the spreadsheet software separately and it was not uncommon to use products from two different vendors as standards - for example, WordPerfect and Lotus 123 were common standards.

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  26. wordperfect 5.1 by snead · · Score: 2, Funny

    We had wordperfect 5.1 installed in all of the computer labs that I worked in back at university. If you took the floppy out of the drive, it was toast and virtually unrecoverable. Everyday, at least one person would complain about losing their paper or some such. Many a session was spent in complete fear, rivulets of sweat dripping from my face, as one of the rather large football players stood angrily over my shoulder waiting for me to retrieve their data.

    It got to the point where I'd ask them if they'd taken the disk out of the drive. They'd say "yep" and I'd say "Yeah... Don't do that". ...Well not the football players... you know, the people I could take (english majors mostly).

    So, not fondly remembered.

    -k

  27. Slightly OT: MS Word bugs and their workarounds by denis-The-menace · · Score: 2, Informative

    How to avoid corrupt documents
    TipsAndGotchas
    In one of these links they say that cut-n-pasting from the web will break documents. I agree since I actually experienced it and switched to OpenOffice!

    --
    Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
  28. Vigor? by lintux · · Score: 2, Funny

    and menus responded with vigor

    Vigor? Word 5.1 had Clippy already? That's impressive! (Screenshot / Home page)

  29. No starting any flame wars... Wordperfect 8 by KillerCow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I always preferred WordPerfect to Word.

    WordPerfect 5.1 was a god-send for its time. 6 was okay, 7 was a dog, but it was all fixed in 8. WP has continued on steadily, but hasn't bloated since 8. WP 10 (which I currently use) has some great new features (print to PDF), but it's basically the same as 8. The file format is even compatible all the way back to WP 6.

    IMHO, WP 8 was an awesome product. It just worked. There were no constant layout glitches, I never had to fight it to get what I wanted, the interface was clean, there were well-know hot-keys for just about everything, and most of all, its system requirements didn't increase significantly at each release. It runs smooth and fast. And it was significantly cheaper than Word.

    -- This post spellchecked by WordPerfect 10 --

  30. Word 4 by hung_himself · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Word 4 was Word 5 without the bloat. It was much faster and nearly file compatible with 5.0 (I remember there were a few hacks that would make it compatible..). Word 5.0 was crappy and buggy which is why Word 5.1 is being mentioned.

    IMO, the only reason that Word 5.1 is remembered with fondness was that Word 6 was so bad that it was unusable. It was also when I stopped reading mainstream computer mags after MacWorld proclaimed it the best wordprocessor available... (that and the article about vdt radiation pushed by an editor with stock in a company that made "anti-radiation" screens...)

  31. Word: nice -- if and when... by Doug+Merritt · · Score: 5, Informative
    When I use Windows at work, Word is powerful and pretty nice...if and when it works. It doesn't crash on me, but it does refuse to do what I tell it sometimes; power users get used to doing workarounds, so it's not that big of a deal if you use it every single day -- you memorize its idiosyncracies.

    However, several times I've seen a whole group of Word power users (not clueless lusers) need to given up on a document and start over from scratch -- usually just on little things like the company business plan or 12 month road map (urk). The only workaround each time was to copy/paste the original document text into a new Word file, because Word was hopelessly confused by whatever little magic cookies it had left in the original document.

    I.e. I know it's not just me being confused, I see this happen to everyone who uses Word heavily on big documents, sooner or later.

    To be charitable, this may be the eventual fate of any huge app that grows by accretion from a small program to a hugely enormous giganto app, without being redesigned and recoded and refactored along the way.

    So yeah, Word -- nice when it works, I guess, but it can be quite frustrating other times.

    --
    Professional Wild-Eyed Visionary
    1. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by JBv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've been using word for some years now. It's getting better regarding stability, but it's getting worse in usability. In a vanilla install, I spend just the same amount of time typing as fighting all the inteligent features that crept into new versions.

    2. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by swv3752 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is the result of a severely obfuscated binary format. I have heard that part of the format is a memory dump of Word.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    3. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by XeRXeS-TCN · · Score: 5, Informative

      At the risk of sounding like a spokesman, if you think OpenOffice takes a while to load up (it *can* be kinda slow at times) or you don't like the various releases of Word, you can always use Abiword.

      It is quite lightweight (only needs a 486 and 16mb of RAM to run) despite looking very similar in style and operation to the latest versions of both OOo and MS Word. It's also compatible with both Word and OOo, and supports many other formats both internally and via plugins, such as WordPerfect etc.

      Personally, I have OOo and Abiword installed, so that I can use Abiword for word processing, and OOo for spreadsheets and powerpoint presentations whenever I need to. I also run Abiword on my old 300MHz laptop, and it runs with no lag whatsoever, unlike when I tried running OOo on it.

    4. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only workaround each time was to copy/paste the original document text into a new Word file, because Word was hopelessly confused by whatever little magic cookies it had left in the original document.

      A nice solution: Save as a word HTML file, with all of the little "o" tags left in, then close and re-load it.

      Works surprisingly well, and can even be automated.

    5. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by Petronius · · Score: 2, Funny

      it does refuse to do what I tell it sometimes
      Ask Clippy. Nicely.

      --
      there's no place like ~
    6. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (Posting anon for a reason...)

      I work for a company that has signed the "Embrace and Extend" code visibility agreement. Granted I don't have "clearence" to ALL of the code, what I have seen of Word, your statement SEEMS only kinda true. It's not a "memory dump", I'd call it what looks like a ptrace. It's more only what was the last thing ask for before it dumpped, is what it seems. This SEEMS *NOT* what actually crashed Word, just what the last thing it was able to do. In other words, the info SEEMS meaningless 90% of the time, yet it SEEMS to be stored anyway.

      I brought this up once and I was told that since the company has decided on Word as it's document editor, the "execptions" were considered "normal operation" of the appliction...

      Disclaimer, I'm not a code genious, but, when the last process call SEEMS TO BE the only one recorded...

      Also, I don't think I'm breaking any code release agreements since I have not pasted any code, nor made any specific or exact comments to what the code does. I also do not (currently) work on any OSS projects. Take from this what you will. I put in the disclaimers for a reason.

    7. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The standard workaround is to save to RTF. This format stores all the most common features like pictures, graphics, tables, etc... and is the only way to recover from Word's many situations where you can't even save your work anymore....

    8. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by the+chao+goes+mu · · Score: 2, Informative
      Had a lot of good experiences using abi word, when Starofccie/open office had issues running on BSD. The only problem was rendering MS specific extensions to the Latin-1 character set. OO/SO renders them fairly well (with a very few glitches), abiword renders everything using the standard Latin-1 set, which makes a few documents a bit hard to read.

      (For a while, I skipped even abi word and just used a script [deoffice? deword? can't recall] which changed .doc files into ascii text...)

      --
      Boys from the City. Not yet caught by the Whirlwind of Progress. Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
    9. Re:Word: nice -- if and when... by crucini · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree that this problem is an inevitable result of growth by accretion. AutoCAD grew the same way and didn't have the problem. The difference is that AutoCAD allows the user better visibility and control of the internal entities (lines, arcs, etc..) than Word does of its entities(presumably paragraphs, keeps, figures ...).

      Building a very opaque app that manipulates a complex database may be "user friendly" but it's a recipe for disaster. When you look at a word document on the screen it's hard to know what the underlying representation is.

  32. WordPerfect by frank249 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to use MS Word at work but I use WordPerfect 11 at home when I need to get real work done. WP lets me format a document the way I want to as opposed to Word where you have to do what Word thinks is best. If ever I have a problem with formatting in WP I just open Reveal Codes and fix it as opposed to spending an hour fighting with Word. Lots of other bonuses now in WP such as the built in dictionary and publish to pdf. Too bad that Corel let Paul Allen and Vector steal the company last year. There is no way now that they will ever sell the company to someone who could really threaten MS Word's monopoly.

    --

    Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

  33. Wordperfect was so much better. by kinema · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I always preferred WordPerfect 5.1. If you need a more then capable yet amazingly functional and easy to use word processor look no further then WordPerfect 5.1. WP51 in my opinion is still king of the word processors.

  34. I used both -- Word had some points, WN aged by ianscot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    WriteNow was great, and I still have a copy on my OS X machine. (Backward compatibility -- check.)

    WN was also specifically optimized for the pre-PPC chip, and its speed advantage wasn't as amazing when that change happened. Emulated it was okay, but not wow! great. Still a lean, purpose-driven little WP, but it wasn't the quickest-feeling-WP-ever any more.

    I dunno, though, whether WriteNow was Word's equal with stuff like Mail Merge and tables. Those two features, in Word 5.1a-era when you still had real rulers to tell you where your table was on the page and so on, would have been a strong argument for Word for a lot of admins.

    (The article's completely right that Word, post-5.1a, was the start of change for its own sake in the Office line. WriteNow never committed that sin against its users -- and never got to sell all the subsequent revs as a result. Goodbye, WriteNow.)

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
  35. I used to swear by WP 5.1 until I learned (La)TeX by mst76 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It takes considerable more time to learn (La)TeX than a wordprocessor, but the results are well worth it if you want publication quality print. PC wordprocessors are the logical evolution of typewriters, TeX (and Framemaker, InDesign, Quark, etc.) is an evolution of typesetting.

    Typesetting was/is a separate skill from writing. In the old days, an author would type or write a manuscript and send it to the publisher, who had professionals to design and typeset the results. Nobody would think of publishing the output of their typewriters, since it looked awful. That's also how the original PC wordprocessors were used: to type manuscripts, letters and memos. A lot of authors seem to think that they are also typesetters, writing whole books in Word, thinking it is ready for publication.

    One of the most obvious indications of the heritage of wordprocessors is the Underline toolbutton alongside Bold and Italic. Traditionally, underline almost never appeared in print. Typewriters, however, used them extensively since they had no Italic.

  36. I'm going to lay down a challenge... by BRSQUIRRL · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...an abandonware challenge for the ever-resourceful Slashdot crowd. I'm sure that major mod-points await someone who can post a link to a download of Word 5.1 (preferably one that runs on Windows). :)

    1. Re:I'm going to lay down a challenge... by abh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, if you can make Word 5.1 (which is a Mac-only product) run on Windows, I'll give you more than just mod points...

  37. Microsoft format is REQUIRED by gov't by GuyMannDude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For people who can't handle \LaTeX

    Yes and no. I love LaTeX but I really can't justify using it. I do contract work for the government and have to supply them with reports and briefings (my research is my "product"). The contracts are now specifying that the reports must be in Microsoft Word and the briefings in Powerpoint. I used to give out PDFs because I didn't like the idea of people cut-and-pasting from my work. Or -- worse yet -- changing parts of my documents or getting access to the notorious, hidden 'metadata' in Microsoft Office products. But I really don't have a choice anymore -- I MUST supply my work in Microsoft-propritary format. So LaTeX is out for me.

    It's really depressing that the government is requiring me to use Microsoft products when the government found that some company guilty of using illegal monopoly powers. It's just another instance of one hand of the government not knowing (or caring, to be more accurate) what the others are doing.

    Instead of laughing or sneering at those of us who are using Microsoft products instead of LaTeX, please consider pitying us instead.

    GMD

  38. Bloated Software? by boboroshi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First - Innovation and features are great in software, don't get me wrong, but why does Word have so many features that the office suite takes up 500 MB of hard drive space? Is it lazy code? or just insanely complex tasks? 5.1 fit on a few floppy discs and ran on my Mac SE with a better responsiveness than office 04 has. Boot times were less or equivalent.

    Secondly - why do people ask MS to provide features that are better done by a seperate application? Do you really need massive page layout tools in word? Do you really need HTML editing in Word? etc. A word processor should be a word processor. 5.1 was that. 2004 seems to be that uber kitchen utensil that if you order in the next 10 minutes, you'll get a second one for FREE!

    Third - And what is the intent of a small, cheeky paperclip guy popping up everytime I'm trying to do something and say "hey!" It's almost like the guy in the cubicle down the way that I just PRAY does not stop by my desk on the way to lunch or the bathroom or just because he needed a quick stretch, but he always does.

    How does paperclip guy aid in usability of the product? Is there a better way to let new users (e.g. non geek, barely can turn on the computer kind of people) know about features without driving the world mad?

    Any solutions? Or am I in a pipe dream of efficent, small apps that do things really well and don't try to be everything to everyone?

    --
    // john athayde
    # x@boboroshi.com
    # http://www.boboroshi.com/
  39. Left + Right Align on same line by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can do this with most word processors, by using tabs. What you do is set a tab on the right side of the page, then modify it to be a right-aligned tab. When you tab over to it, your text will be right-aligned to the tab line. This works both in OpenOffice and Microsoft Word.

  40. Perfect example of the great software problem. by nlinecomputers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once you have crafted a perfect product that most of the market is now using how to you generate more sales? For software engineers can perfection be to good?

    --
    Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
  41. You could say the same for by unformed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    vi, or emacs, for that matter.

    Me, I just swear.

    1. Re:You could say the same for by Doug+Merritt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You could say the same [i.e. "swear at"] vi, or emacs, for that matter.

      Naw -- While it's true that I've sworn at emacs because I didn't know how to get it to do something, and I've sworn at vi for not having a feature I wanted, this is rather different than swearing at Word for not doing what you tell it to do.

      Word is buggy. I knew of exactly 1 serious bug in the original vi (it crashed if a global search/replace pattern wrapped around to the next line), none in vim (maybe I've been lucky), and only minor bugs in the various versions of emacs I've used (not counting the less-used infinite add-ons).

      I'm sure that vi and emacs had more bugs than I personally have seen, but my experience is not unusual -- whereas every heavy user of Word becomes keenly aware of its bugs.

      That's a significant difference. Bill Gates has made explicit statements about his beliefs and policies about bugs in his products; I'm not flaming, so I won't quote him directly here, but I really do think that the attitude reflected in those famous comments has a direct impact on products like Word.

      --
      Professional Wild-Eyed Visionary
    2. Re:You could say the same for by TheCrazyFinn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While that's true for most versions of Word, 5.1 didn't think for you. It's one of the reasons it's so loved by Mac users.

      MS would sell more copies of an OS X port of Word 5.1 than it ever will of Word 2004.

      --
      "You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
    3. Re:You could say the same for by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Interesting
      While that's true for most versions of Word, 5.1 didn't think for you. It's one of the reasons it's so loved by Mac users.

      That, and the fact that it will run on any Mac ever made. OK, I have actually tried it on one of the floppy-only machines, but I found a copy of Word 5.1 on a Mac SE I picked up recently, and it's quite snappy on that li'l 8MHz 2.5MB antique.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    4. Re:You could say the same for by RevAaron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most people do not use html to make their documents. Certainly not a simple essay. Definetely not their letter to grandma. ...and there is a reason for this. Not because HTML is too hard, but because HTML blows for print. For my first couple papers in college, I wrote them in HTML in emacs. Guess what? I ended up doing a "print preview" about a zillion times to check my length, check how various figures or tables looked in print, etc etc. HTML sucks for word processing, and anyone who uses it for that does some seriously light writing. Maybe writing that letter to grandma, but anything more any it blows.

      So I did myself a big favor and learned LaTeX. Mm mm good! No more annoying HTML shite and not that hard if you know HTML already.

      --

      Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
  42. Somewhere in the world... by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Geek 1: EMACS!
    Geek 2: VI!
    Geek 1: EMACS!
    Geek 2: VI!
    Geek 3: Oohh Word 5.1!
    *Geek 1 and Geek 2 give the look of death to Geek 3. Large heavy objects suddenly get propelled at Geek 3.*
    Geek 1: EMACS!
    Geek 2: VI!
    Geek 3: Vi'macs.... *WHUMP as he passes out from a concusion*

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  43. Flamewar start by TuringTest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This should send a message to all open source developers that feature bloat is not at all an indicator of better software. It is best to have a right, balanced set of features with well chosen defaults and, only when possible, easy extensibility.

    And configurability is NOT a good thing to have in software; interaction should be designed according to cognitive principles. When the interface is designed to assist the human mental resources, it is easier and better to retrain that to configure the interface to old habits. Hear, KDE?

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  44. WordPerfect 3.5 for Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I sometimes use WordPerfect 3.5 for Mac when I get tired of Word. It is free for public download, so you don't have to worry about breaking the law. http://acmfiles.csusb.edu/corel/wpmac.html

  45. Simple Things by DrVomact · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is so true--I've long thought that many of the major software applications have passed their peak. Once you have a mature product that performs all the necessary functions for a particular purpose, how do you justify charging obnoxious sums of money for it? --Well, you "improve" it. Then you release the new "improved" version with much fanfare and charge obnoxious amounts of money.

    But the only way you can, with some plausibility, claim that a product is "improved" is by adding new features. Maybe they're features that some small subset of users might conceivably want, but since this is mature software, all the important features are already present. By adding new non-essential features, you make the interface more complex, the product more difficult to learn and use, and introduce new bugs. (Which can be fixed in the next "improved" version.)

    As a result, all the most common applications have grown bloated to the point where they are nearly unusable. Some examples of this are word processors (MS Word), image manipulation software (Photoshop), and CD burning software.

    The other day, I wanted to burn a CD. I just wanted to put some photos on the darn thing and give it to my daughter. Turned out that my last CD software was locked to work only with the drive it came with, and the new (ultra cheap OEM) CD/DVD drive I bought didn't come with software. So I looked around for a package that would do what I wanted: burn a CD. I found packages that cost over $60 (Roxio and Nero), claimed to do everything but massage my gluteus maximus, and got horrible user reviews. Indeed, lots of people said that the previous releases of both these packages were better than the new "improved" version! --But of course, the previous release was no longer to be had. I finally found a place on the web that sells old software, and got an early OEM copy of Nero for $5 or so. Works great--it puts stuff on CDs.

    Word processors are the worst of the lot, I think. I once used an early version of Word that ran under DOS and that did everything I wanted--in fact, I used it in my job: tech writing. That version of Word (whatever it was) didn't need more features--it just needed cleaning up. (Better interface, more intuitive use of stylesheets--ditch the concept of style inheritance.)

    Remember MacWrite? It was a Word processor that you could give your 8 year old, with the reasonable expectation that she would be up and running with it in a few hours. Yeah, MacWrite could have used one or two features--such as the notion of paragraph formatting, page templates and a style catalog, but it was beautifully simple and did what it was supposed to do.

    I've fantasized about the notion of starting a company that produces simple software--simple useable versions of the applications that drive everyone nuts. But I quickly realized why that can't be done: if you make simple software, then you'll get sued, since everything that's useful and simple has been patented.

    --
    Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  46. It's so true by wazzzup · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I remember using Word 5.1 on a daily basis when I interned at the Ohio House of Representatives. It was truly brain-dead easy to use, simple, streamlined and elegant. If I were one of the smaller, Mac-only word processor vendors (Mellel, Mariner Write, Nisus) I would target the Word 5.1 feature set and look-and-feel as a goal to meet. I've tried all of the above, and while quite good, they all missed the target one way or the other by missing basic features, or missing the mark with simplicity or workflow. I think MS, and OpenOffice are to far gone in the bloaty slow space to ever return a word processor that rivals Word 5.1.

    This article is proof enough that Word 5.1 should be their target. If you build it, they will come.

    Did anybody else out there like WordPerfect for the Mac? That was my second-favorite word processor ever.

  47. one man's bloat is another man's feature by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to hear people say things like "Track Changes?!? Nobody would ever use that!"

    Well, if you need to send documents around for review, Track Changes absolutely ROCKS. If you write technical documentation, it's foolish not to use it (yeah, I know, I used to think that too; just try it and see ...).

    So this leads me to believe that all kinds of stuff I scratch my head at (when I see it in the menus) is making somebody else's day go much easier that it otherwise would. Just because I don't use it doesn't mean that it is bloat.

    1. Re:one man's bloat is another man's feature by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Informative
      Write tech documents with Word? One of my current job responsibilities is to maintain a 2,500 page document. Would you use Word for this? I'd prefer to use an application that does one thing well--in this case, FrameMaker--than one that keeps track of my boss' calendar.

      I haven't checked lately, but Word used to crash regularly on manuals that exceeded 200 pages, never did a good index, and couldn't handle multiple chapters in separate files. You'd think they'd fix this stuff before they added frills. (I'd be surprised, but maybe they did...I never do real work with Word anymore.)

      For me, the most loathsome feature of Word is style inheritance. Unless you are really good at designing Word styles (and who is?), you wind up with a bunch of styles that are mutually related in some mysterious way so that when you make a little change to one style, another style suddenly morphs into Greek, or all your numbered lists turn to bullets. I hear people mention this phenomenon frequently, but they usually think that word processors are supposed to act like this.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    2. Re:one man's bloat is another man's feature by Noksagt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, if you need to send documents around for review, Track Changes absolutely ROCKS.

      Yes and no--it rocks for those who would be intimidated running cvs or diff or using any utility that isn't integrated in their authoring software. This is what makes me use word from time to time--my collaborators can't figure out the better ways to do things.

      It is really poor for version control. It is also poor if you ant to submit to multiple people, all who should be able to make changes.

      There are some great LaTeX IDEs out there that I have convinced peers to use. If they came integrated with better change control management, there really wouldn't be any reason for me to use a word processor.

  48. Two words - Task Pane by Cumstien · · Score: 5, Funny

    I agree, why does MS think I want a separate window, bar, or pop up for every action performed on a document. I have spent more time with Office XP hacking the registry and customizing toolbar buttons to avoid their suppossed intelligent features.

    Next their going to introduce different degrees of italics and bold.

    You have selected bold. How bold would you like it today? Please adjust the thickness, shade and sharpness sliders below

    For Christ sakes just give me a solid word processor with out the needless tweaks.

  49. Microsoft Publisher by Zone-MR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've used MS Publisher ever since 1997, and I've always loved it. Publisher lets me lay out the page the way I want it, whereas formatting is often a struggle with Word.

    I wonder why Publisher and Word are still seperate products, seeing how Publisher could trivially be improved to become a great Word proccessor in addition to a DTP package.

  50. It was sweet... by gordgekko · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I used to use Word 5.1 on a Mac Classic II back in the day. It. Just. Worked. I wrote my thesis on that box and with 5.1.

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  51. A void filled by shareware by mblase · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't word-process very much, but for Mac users there is one great option available for "I just want to write" types: Mellel. It's got tables, styles, footnotes/endnotes, and multilingual support -- all the power features "normal people" use in Word and none of the chrome. All for under thirty bucks, which is a darned good value and (I'm sure) an improvement on Word 5.1 by any measure.

  52. That's bullshit. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Netscape 4.x was ASS. It was okay, but unacceptably buggy and slow. What makes you think 5 was going to be any improvement? I'm assuming that they were still basing it on the original codebase (from version 1). They needed that new layout engine BADLY.
    Gecko ran circles around 4.x in rendering, none of that O(N^2) wait blowup if you picked the wrong nesting of tags.

    Everyone would have hated 5 just as much as 4... they would still switch to IE.

    It's sad, but I'm glad Netscape didn't try for a 5 before they switched codebases. I was like: stick a fork in it, it's done.

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    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  53. MS Works! by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 2

    MS Works on Windows 3.1.1 was my personal document program of choice in the PC world. Of course, Claris Works on the Mac kicked its ass by leaps and bounds, but I only had access to that at school.

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    MORTAR COMBAT!
  54. I remember Word 5.1.... by myrdred · · Score: 2, Funny

    It ran like a champ on my 33mhz PowerBook 190.

    Now, someone remind me what the system requirements are for the current versions of Office and Open Office?

  55. Re:Two words - Task Pane by Cromac · · Score: 4, Informative
    I have spent more time with Office XP hacking the registry and customizing toolbar buttons to avoid their suppossed intelligent features.

    Did you script the changes you made so the next time, because there's always a next time especially with Windows, you don't have to do it all by hand?

    A simle WSH script to automate those registry changes might save you a bunch of time and headachs next time around.

  56. Re:LaTeX; Word; WP5.1 by cool_st_elizabeth · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Absolutely. And if for some reason you can't or won't use LaTeX, WP5.1 is a good choice ... I remember when WP5.1 first came out, I thought it was bloatware, but I now know that compared to M$ Word 95 which I'm forced to use on the job, WP5.1 is a marvel of efficient programming.

  57. Word 4.0 for Mac ruled. by melatonin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As someone else mentioned, the Word 5.1 people are talking about is the Mac version.

    However, Word 4.0 for the Mac was way better than Word 5; the problem was that it as attached to technology that was not modern enough. It was designed for System 6 (OS releases were called System [1-7.5]) and it wasn't ready for Truetype (my biggest gripe). It limited fonts to 127 point size.

    The thing that made it so great though is that it fit on one freaking floppy! I think it used ~300 K of RAM. You could fit Word 4 and the System 6 OS on one floppy and boot from it (800K floppies I think, not 1.4 MB "HD" floppies. Macs didn't have 720K floppies). You could then keep the floppy ejected, and put in the floppy that you save your documents on. Accordingly, the software ran freaking fast. There was another floppy but I can't remember what it had; it was probably the spelling dictionary. Someone else mentioned the speed of WriteNow. WriteNow was written entirely in Motorola 68k assembly language. They got screwed on the move to PPC. I used to laugh at idiots who advocated writing Palm entirely programs in 68k asm, and I was right :) Computers only get faster...

    It did everything I needed Word 5 to do (which is a LOT), and it had a much stronger document formatting model; before Microsoft hacked things like Text Boxes onto the design. It was a lean, mean, long-document writing machine. It didn't include a shit-load of shitty clip-art, a shitty graphics editor, etc. I'm sure Word 5 can do this, but Word 4 also let you include raw Postscript code in your documents to send to the printer. The manual (software came with excellent manuals back then) demonstrated what you could do with Postscript. Macs + Desktop Publishing + Networking + Postscript Printers were standard fare in those days. Speaking of the manual, it was written entirely and formatted (page design, including sidebar captions and diagrams, table of contents, and an index too I think) using Word 4. Word isn't meant to do a project that large anymore. Word 4 would actually keep only parts of the document you were working on in memory, so you could use it on a machine with 512k of RAM. It was the anti-thesis of bloatware. That's why I liked Microsoft back then; it was well engineered software.

    When Word 5 came out, it came in about 10 floppies I think, with an installer that extracted it from compressed files. It also had toolbars that took up precious screen space, when a lot of Macs were 512x384 (that's the resolution of my first Mac LC; I think the normal 9" Macs' resolution was a bit shorter). Someone sent a joke screenshot to Macworld that was a mock-up of Word 10, to be released in 2000 or so (IIRC). It was to be installed from 100 floppies and all the toolbars took up 75% of the screen space. The sad part is, Word 6 (which came on a CD) did just that!

    I remember some industry pundits (and some not-so pundits but just informed people) saying that MS developed their GUI-writing expertise on the Mac, and then used that to bring full-featured applications to Windows when it was ready. For example, Microsoft Excel 1.0 was created for the Mac (~1986). I don't know when the first Windows version came out, but it would have been some time later.

    I also used Word 5 for DOS on a 286 before I got a Mac. It was very, very nice, for a text-based interface. But I was blown away when I bought a Mac and Word 4 for it. I actually bought Word 4 back then (MS wasn't as obviously evil as they are now; I actually liked them back then and the great software of theirs that I had the chance to use, like Word), and it was worth every penny. I got pissed when Word 5 was released 6 months later that addressed the pains I had using Word 4 on System 7, so I thought I'd hold out for Word 6. What a mistake that was :P

    MS actually sold a downgrade for Word 6 customers. You could buy the POS Word 6, and pay more to downgrade to Word 5. I'm not making this up.

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    Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
  58. CLIPPY!!!! by Kpt+Kill · · Score: 5, Funny
    It looks like your posting on slashdot! Would you like some help:
    • Bashing Microsoft
    • Promoting Open Source
    • Making CowboyNeal jokes
    1. Re:CLIPPY!!!! by AntiOrganic · · Score: 2, Funny
      It looks like you're posting on Slashdot! Would you like some help:
      • Understanding the difference between "your" and "you're"
  59. NASA uses Word 5.1 on Mac OS X by wax66 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was part of a certain center's major OS 9 to OS 10 upgrade, and Word 5.1 is still used by many people at the center (most of them have been here since dirt was first invented). Turns out that it has (according to them) the best mathematical formula display and editor. I personally did some testing with Word 5.1 for one of them on OS X in classic mode, and with the exception of a couple of font display problems that were fixed, it worked perfectly STILL. Sick, but nice that this person we upgraded doesn't have to rewrite millions of pages of documentation on flight characteristics and such of various aircraft/spacecraft and whatever else she had. Just sad that something as simple as that equation editor isn't in current releases.

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  60. Real designers use Vector apps by xactuary · · Score: 2, Informative

    I once worked with a graphic designer and whenever he needed to create a letter or invoice he opened Free Hand and used the programs type features. For him, it probably was faster... and I must say, every letter out of his dye-sub printer looked perfect.

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  61. Re:I used to swear by WP 5.1 until I learned (La)T by Pig+Bodine · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I guess in scientific publishing, authors are expected to use TeX themselves, which seems like a ridiclous workflow.

    LaTeX is the standard, but I don't generally see a required document format for submitting papers to mathematics journals. SIAM (Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics) will accept Word and use word2tex. But I do some refereeing for (mostly) matrix theory and numerical analysis journals and I've never seen a paper written in Word (except for engineering journals). If you have something with a lot of equations LaTeX is a lot less work if you know how to use it. Using the equation editor in word is excruciatingly painful and slow.

  62. Damn Mascot by karniv0re · · Score: 2, Funny

    Even if Word were the best program around for text editing, I'd still refuse to go near it if I saw Clippy smiling at me. I have nightmares about that damn thing trying to help me. Make it stop! Make it stop!

  63. Knowing when to stop by NCFlipper · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A problem that occurs in so much software is that there never seems a good place to stop. Word keeps evolving for the sake of evolving, in the process being less well able to do the things it was initially designed for. But the same is true of so much other software: emacs is huge; so it Mozilla. In the latter case people have tried to trim things down, but I won't be surprised if their efforts become huge too. The extra bloat isn't from bugfixes, it's from too many extras.

    Another example, going back to wordprocessors. Take Abiword. It has bidirectional printing. I'm never going to use that. It has internationalization. I'm unlikely to write in another language enough to use that either. Of course it's tricky, since I know that other people will want to use these features. But for me they end up wasting space and loading time.

    It's all so far from the Unix way of doing simple individual things well. That principle seems to be dying out, but it doesn't seem any less valid now than 10 years ago.

    1. Re:Knowing when to stop by ReinoutS · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Take Abiword. It has bidirectional printing. I'm never going to use that. It has internationalization. I'm unlikely to write in another language enough to use that either.
      I hear ya, mate. I completely agree Abiword should support the Chinese language only. With so many people speaking Chinese, why support something else? That will only lead to bloat.