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Babylon 5 Creator Pitches Trek
pdawerks writes "According to Sci-Fi Wire, Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski told fans on a B5 Usenet group that he and Dark Skies creator Bryce Zabel have put together an idea for a new Star Trek series, which he said would revive the ailing franchise. 'I got together [with Zabel] and wrote a treatment earlier this year that specified how to save [Star Trek] and develop a series that would restore the series in a big way,' Straczynski wrote. 'I actually think it could be a hell of a show. Whether that ever goes anywhere with Paramount, who knows?'"
...is a rest. For about 10 years. I don't say that unkindly...I like Star Trek, but familiarity breeds contempt. Only time can make it fresh at this point. Well that and interesting characters, decent writing, and fewer solutions that involve reversing the polarity of something and shooting it out the deflector. But I digress.
"Captain, it's a planet where they allow men to marry men and women to marry women!"
"Well, that's something Earth had to recognise as a fundamental human right..."
"But, Captain, they're doing it in polygamus unions!"
"WHAT!?!? Helm to starboard! Weapons officer, load all topedo tubes! Raze their capitol!!"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
...have Rick Berman shot, drawn, quartered, and then really hurt. That man has done nothing but ride the noble stallion, passed on by Roddenberry, that was once Star Trek to death, and after the horse died, Berman has been beating the fucker with a stick for a few years.
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
What irritated me the most about Berman ruining the Star Trek universe was that it had so much great potential. And he just pissed it away. This could be something very, very cool. I really think that these guys, for lacking of a better description, get it.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
If he has enough ideas to make another trek show, he might as well spend the time to create another series in the B5 universe - it will be better received.
...from Berman, Straczynski can.
Technoli
Star Trek TNG was the best series by far. What made it great was the chemistry of the crew. Enterprise has lost ratings, in my opinion, due to the crew simply not having good chemistry...it's just not as believable a show because the interactions of the crew seem contrived at times. The captain, especially, puts too much effort into his acting. Patrick Stewart captured the fans because of his ability to convince the audience he wasn't faking it (like any good actor incidentally) Any new series would really have to focus on crew chemistry to gain a fan base
JMS once talked about his doing a trek series. It was back in the hieght of B5 and someone asked him what he would do if Paramount handed him a Trek series. He said something along the lines of (can't find it on Google Groups right now): I'd start by getting away from the federation. Kill off a few people so the fans know that this is not going to be the same-old and then start to tell some interesting stories.
It was funny because he said that before Voyager and Andromeda (which was originally a Trek series about the fall of the Federation as Rodenbury had pitched it) came out, and the good points of BOTH of those series were exactly that: getting away from the Federation and establishing their own stories. Woefully Voyager just entrenched itself in its own static mythos and Andromeda as plagued by execs that couldn't stand how dark it was.
Personally I don't see JMS being able to play ball with Paramount. I think he'd last 3-6 months tops before he blew up at them and walked. He's just not enough of a political animial (his detractors would say he's too much of one) to be able to put up with it.
Come on Malda, this is "News for Nerds"! Trek is large enough to deserve a separate category icon (even dispite of "Star Trek: Enterprise").
I suggest either a picture of the Original TOS Enterprise (NCC-1701 without any suffix) flying towards the user or a Starfleet Emblem.
You know it makes sense!
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
Why not leave Trek in it's dilapidated, polarity-inverted Universe, and instead create another series in the Babylon 5 one?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Unlike others who think that Star Trek needs to go on 'vacation' I don't agree. There is little value to bringing Trek back 10 years from now if its going to be the same as it is today. Berman and Braga are a plague on the Trek franchise that needs to be removed. It is clear that they are too burned out on this franchise do anything useful. For goodness sakes, they have reduced the process of the founding of the Federation into a romp through time. Yeah, creating this massive Federation 'empire' is just too damn boring. I mean all the species, conflicts and technologies that would have to be created would just be too bland to watch.
:)
The problem is with the writing, not the franchise. Its just not interesting anymore - and this latest travesty (Enterprise) is just adding insult to injury. Blue alien nazis? Someone get these clowns outta here
Babylon 5 Creator Pitches Trek
Somebody needed to pitch it.
It's been really stinking up the place for a while.
(I actually watched the last half of the "Search for Spock" movie last night. Man, that dog did not improve with age -- not to mention that Bones and Scotty looked pretty aged when it first came out.)
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
that is precisely the reason I cant watch Enterprise.
I keep expecting Al to show up with his little tricorder dealie.
Also, WTF was up with the last episode of Quantum Leap? Worst series-ending EVER!
Personally I don't see JMS being able to play ball with Paramount. I think he'd last 3-6 months tops before he blew up at them and walked.
Babylon 5 was extraordinary for two reasons:
(1) An astronomically talented writer
(2) Said writer having complete creative control over the show
That is why Babylon 5 was able to be what it was: an utterly fantastic story stretched over five seasons. JMS himself has said that he had the general structure and philosophy of the story laid down from day one.
I don't see item #2 having a hell's chance of survival at Paramount, do you?
The coolest voice ever.
And I think a great (paraphrased) line from it was
"...Nostalgia belongs in a museum...and you have to decide if you're running a museum, or you're running a Casino..."
Star Trek with Captain Kirk was new original and fun. Star Trek with Captain Picard was a great remake of the original. Star Trek Deep Space Nine seemed like the UPN-Space-Ghetto show and not so much of a Star Trek...Star Trek Voyager had an interesting premise, but the characters seemed to fall apart with me giving barely a rats ass if anything bad would have happened to them. Star Trek Enterprise is again a remake, but done in an original way much like Generations, but prequils don't hold my interest nearly enough as (good) sequels.
I think we've done enough with Star Trek and i'd rather see the creativeness go somewhere else. I liked a lot of the ideas behind shows like Babylon5, Farscape and (very very little) of Lexx. But the calibur of acting and dialogue wasn't always there. Stargate seems to be the only sci-fi show of this era that really impresses and I think has the ability to continue for a while, but we'll see, they have a new spin off coming along and it could totally suck without Macgyver.
Ave Molech Setting
I think you might be right, but if anybody could salvage Star Trek, it's Straczynski. Babylon 5 is truly one of the best though out sci-fi programs to have aired on television. His focus on a defined and limited story arc really gave the show a sense of purpose from week to week that I think is totally lacking in most of the Star Trek spinoffs.
The biggest problem, I believe, with Star Trek is that they've tended to let the show ride on random events rather than running plots. The times when they have gone to more of a story arc they have made the shows far more worthwhile.
Enterprise has done this to some extent over the last season, tracking down the Xindi and it really helped give the show some energy. Deep Space nine had the same sort of thing happen when they had the shape shifter backed armada coming to wipe out their part of the galaxy. ST:TNG has the Borg and a few other running threads.
But overall, with Star Trek, these runing plots have always felt kinda tacked on. Something to drive a season finale, etc. I think starting a new series with a defined story arc over a fixed period like they did with Babylon 5 would really do well.
For example, perhaps do a series that's entirely focussed on the events that take place during the creation of a peace accord with the Klingons. Pick some key moment in federation history and depict it's course over a period of time. Project star trek out into the future and have some run in with a new species perhaps? What about a major civil war with the federation? There's a lot that can be done with this that could really make for an interesting show.
But anyhow, if they want to go that direction and really freshen the show, I think they can. If they try to crank out yet another bland spinoff, it's going to fail. So if they don't want to try something truly new with it, they need to mothball it for like 20 years. Then they can go back and do the same tired old concept again.
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As wonderful as it might be to have a new Star Trek series, there is one axiom about this process: It is absolutely impossible for a creative person to efficiently obtain approval for a new project from a large company.
Proof:
Disney turned down Lord of the Rings
Sony turned down Everquest
Electronic Arts tried to cancel the Sims three times
MGM turned down Gone with the Wind
Now, if they don't mind spending $10,000 a day from the moment they make the first phone call, great. Otherwise, find a way to do it without conference rooms, or it's going to be nothing but anguish.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
I would happily sacrifice the whole star trek franchise to have Fire Fly back.
Using the Star Trek ship as an icon will probably get /. sued - especially under the current IP law.
Just don't let Fox have the rights to air it.
This is exactly what Enterprise had been doing. People bash it a lot, but I kind of like it. Season 3 last was really nice, especially towards the ending, but the cliffhanger was really lame.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I wholeheartedly agree that Straczynski could save Trek, assuming he's given a free hand.
I wonder how he'll handle not having to deal with Newtonian physics? One of the hallmarks of B5 was that the writers and animators actually had a good grasp of physics, i.e. you can change the ship's attitude without having to change direction. As someone who paid attention in physics class, I really enjoyed that aspect of the show. Now, when my kids watch it, they ask if spaceships can actually do that stuff, and I get an opportunity to make them think. Very few Trek episodes can do that.
Eagerly anticipating more information on this.
... by the Dew of Mountains the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning
I remember cringing at some of the earlier TNG episodes that ended with Riker making some inane remark and Picard saying "Agreed!" * YAWN *
I find it very hard to believe that this state of utopia will ever be reached, because every improvement in society brings its own drawbacks. For example, the richest country in the world today has still not managed to find happiness, look at the sheer size of the shrink and self-help industry. The nation with the highest car-ownership in the world has brought with it an epidemic of obesity and enormous environmental problems. Bottom line, for every problem you solve in society, another is created. This is something that's missing from the humans in the Trek universe.
Lastly, from a drama point of view, people happily getting along makes for unbelievably boring TV. Remember the Itchy & Scratchy episodes where they became best friends? All the kids in Springfield started switching off their TVs and went out to play. We demand TV that keeps us indoors!!!
Drill baby drill - on Mars
I don't know...a lot of the charm for me was that I could turn on STOS or STNG and know that they were going to find something new and wacky (and probably implausible), and not get drawn into a deep and complex drama. And if I missed a show I didn't have to read over scripts to figure out what happened to who and who is sleeping with who or who lost their job and is now a clown, etc.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
ST has become fashionable to hate. It used to be just a geek thing but now even geeks are trying to be hip by saying they don't like it.
If you look at the recent ST series I think the fault is that they tried to be too popular. Instead of aiming at their main audience they tried to broaden it and managed to loose both their old audience and not aquire a new one.
ST:TNG was too softly and soapy (it even had the evil twin sister kinda stuff), Deep Space 9 became a true soap, going away from the 1 hour episodes into an neverending story with returning cast members. Dynasty in space. Voyager never stopped whining. Enterprise is so bad I didn't even watch past ep3. And I am very forgiving to ST.
Any new series needs to go back to the roots. 1 hour episodes of a small crew exploring the universe. No whining, no soul searching. Just doing things. Focus on the old fans, they kept the franchise going for decades, we are ready to be milked more. Just don't insult us anymore.
Oh and shoot the person that came up with the holochamber idea. These guys are out exploring space and the best they can do for excitement is do fantasy games indoors? Losers.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Why do we mark history by wars?
Because it's exciting and it drives people.
If you think back to the best and most memorable episodes of ST, TNG, DS9, or B5 they nearly all involved major conflict, or wars, and (potentially) loss of life. Those shows (and it works in real life, too) were able to bring out the most intense aspects of the characters simultaneously with the coolest gadgets, best ships and special effects.
The reason why TNG seemed so lame was because they were trying to be "nice" and hardly ever used their phasers - until the borg showed up - some of the most memorable episodes.
Use some CGI and *get the hell rid of the idea that EVERY friggin' intelligent species in the universe is a damn humanoid*.
Human/centipedal interaction on a regular basis beats human/klingon/romulan/..... with head creases interaction. Yeesh.
Sadly there is only one thing that can safe the Star Trek universe (and thus the Franchise):
a COMPLETE rehaul
By now there are hundreds (thousands?) of methods to solve impossible sitations, just by reversing the polarity of something (and yet these methods will only be used ONCE, no matter how benificial the effects are - probably some big company instantly gets the patents once the crew uses them once - I blame the Ferengi)
There are paradoxes and plotholes large enough to dump an entire series in, to never be seen again (Enterprise would be my favorite here...) and if I see one more pointless time travel...
The universe needs a complete overhaul, remove all the horrible glitches from the official Canon (as far as possible) and then start with a clean plate. (e.g. the Borg - if you HAVE to have a Borg "Queen" - how about having the Queen just be an avatar of the Collective will? Make her less bitchy and more emotionless like the Borg used to be and most of the fans would no longer be out to stake you)
And honestly, I think Michael Straczynski and Bryce Zabel might be able to do that.
I know, probably they will only create another ST Series - but hey, one can dream, right? (and still, even if they "only" create another series - at least its gonna be less sucky that Enterprise)
+++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Out of Cheese Error +++ redo from start +++
While it started out slow, DS9 was the deepest Trek series, because for the most part everything was confined to the station rather than a roving ship exploring new worlds, the plots revolved more around the characters and larger story arcs, rather than on what wierd new planet they'd have to deal with. Add epic wars and space battles, mysticism, emotion, cunning and deceit and you get the best Trek Series. All I need now is a thousand dollars to buy the DVDs
"I think a great movie, if not series, would be all about the Borg. How the first nanobytes took control of the first specieis (species 001) and how the collective was created. No Federeation, no Vulcans, etc.. just BORG."
:)
Wowsers. You must be a fan of the Star Wars Holiday Special; a good 30 minutes of poorly designed Wookie costumes, along with grunting and yelping without any subtitles.
And if you want to see how the Borg developed, you might sign up for a Netflix account and rent all the Doctor Who DVDs featuring the CYBERMEN, the original Borg!
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
I think DS9 started off slow but improved and had some great episodes like "The Vistor" #75 (many fathers appreciated it). They introduced the "runabout" (cool ride, kinda like the winnebago of the 24th century) and the "Defiant" (one very bad ass, greatly overweaponed ship). The wormhole allowed for someone interesting plot additions. They showed us how a lot of different species lived, many more than any other ST series.
Not to be forgotten, the "Ferengi Rules of Acquisition" gave interesting insite to greed.
34 - War is good for business.
35 - Peace is good for business.
239 - Never be afraid to mislabel a product.
261 - A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
Morals were well tested. A "former terrorist", Major Kira, became a respected leader while still having a few terrorist traits; interesting when one thinks of the use of the word "terrorist" today. Some "Black and White" morals were shown to have acceptable shades of grey. To many DS9 was as good as TNG. I think the exploration into the psychology of people make it a good show. Different for TNG, but still good science fiction. And yes, the long lesbian kiss.
Imagine what Straczynski and Zabel could done with it though. There's a lot of life left in the ST franchise.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
I agree ... there could be some great movies/shows/books about that whole backstory ... I think it's the most interesting part of star trek. the rest is so cut and dried, but the borg really are a 'different' element .. they don't fit the rest of the mold. they are the black to the rest of the shows white.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
The language is vague in that sentence, so you misunderstood what he was saying. That is, that there ought to be some new species of alien who focuses on political influence through terrorism.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
I have been watching enterprise as I could downloading eps when I missed em on tv. But alien nazis back in time? W T F? I literally groaned in disgust when I saw it at the end of the finale. what could they possibly have been thinking?
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
The original B5 pilot aired the same year as DS9, but was not picked up. Thank ${deity} it came back. It was the best TV fare in the Sci-Fi genre to date.
The idea of conflict happening as often as it does in Trek is ludicrous anyway, given the amount of space, apparent number of habitable systems and bases, and speed of ships, ignoring the causal paradoxes and relativistic-time effects of FTL travel. Everyone would be hippies living in communes and becoming one with the cosmos, almost never coming into contact with anyone. Space is really, really big.
B5 was an amazing series. And strangely prophetic, too, some of the episodes in seasons 2 and 3, about xenophobia, personal freedoms vs government security, free speech, etc.
I encourage everyone to buy the DVD boxed sets to support this man, so he keeps coming up with great scifi stories.
The irony man! Don't you get the irony? It's like posioning the ribs and getting killed by the rib truck.
( boom.wav, from Babylon 5 Sounds...).
That's one of the few things I liked about DS9. It showed the otherside of living in the Federation. One of the best scenes in DS9 was the following:
Quark: "I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this."
Garak: "What is it?"
Quark: "A Human drink, it's called Root Beer."
Garak: "Ahh, I don't know....."
Quark: "Come on....Aren't you in the least bit curious?"
Quark: "..........What d'you think?"
Garak: "It's vile?"
Quark: "I know. It's so bubbly and cloy, and happy."
Garak: "Just like the Federation....."
Quark: "But do you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it you begin to like it...."
Garak: "....It's insidious...."
Quark: "....Just like the Federation."
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Babylon 5 is an absolutely amazing piece of science fiction but only when you realize that the 5 seasons are really one 80-hour long movie.
When I saw it aired on TV, I thought it was contrived because I didn't understand all the constant references to prophecies, councils, past wars, Valen, etc. I thought that they were doing what Star Trek writers do - reference cool sounding things just to enhance the illusion of the future, but those things are not existant in the actual plot. B5 is completely different; almost all their references are to cool stories in other episodes (both forward and backward) including some mind-blowing plot twists (some that make you giggle when you watch earlier season episodes because you know some *huge* secrets revealed later). It's important to realize that the B5 plot was fully written before filming, something that Star Trek never benefited from.
My roommate got the DVDs for all the seasons and we started watching them one by one. I'm a few episodes from finishing the last season. B5 is a trememdous story, not just out of science fiction, but of any type of story I've ever watched or read. It's one of those real works of art you only see once every few years. Of course I take issue with some scientific points, like their premise of the "first ones" (first race in the galaxy) living for indefinite lifetimes and such, but they are just quibbles.
It's also worth noting that besides the brilliant story weaving, B5 also fantastically avoided the concept of "good guys" and "bad guys". I'm impressed to no end how they side-stepped that oh-so-common trapping and actually made several alien races really come to life with politics, emotions, and goals of their own. Very cool.
The third great thing about B5 is that the problems are solved with character solutions. The tech is there to enhance the experience, but unlike Star Trek where they can reconfigure the primary deflector to do the dishes and take out the dog, in B5 they actually work out the problems using more traditional methods, and the interesting tech is for there for the viewer's enjoyment as backdrop, not primary focus.
If you're a Star Trek fan but have never watched B5, do yourself a favor and start with Season 1. Watch them in order, and P.S. there is an extra prequel movie, but don't watch it until after you get into Season 5 because it gives a few things from the middle away.
It makes me curious as to how they'd give Star Trek the B5 treatment, but I'd have to guess that the first step would be to write out a cohesive plot that can cover the first few years of the show before they start filming.
I like the idea of J. Michael Strazynski doing Star Trek. B5 and Crusade were excelent.
For as much as I like the concept of "Enterprise" I think the wrong people are producing it. The stories aren't as strong as "Deep Space Nine" and there is no much of the jiggle factor (T'Pol needs to wear less revealing costumes) like "Voyager" had.
Just my $0.02 worth.