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The Return of the Sparrow Electric Vehicle?
H0NGK0NGPH00EY writes "I have been keeping my eye on the Sparrow electric vehicle, following last year's bankruptcy of its creator, and recently noticed that the brightly-colored three-wheeled electric commuter car has been reborn. Myers Motors will begin selling an upgraded version this summer, after having acquired the rights and tooling from Phoenix Environmental Motors, who mention this on their official homepage."
..first it was a sparrow, then it was a dodo, now it's a phoenix?
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Too many "alternative" ideas don't understand that "different" and "popular" are very rarely correlated.
There was an old lady who drove in a shoe...
If I didn't already have a solid-performing, small Civic, I'd seriously think about one of these.
Except that I drive too much.
Commuter market is hard to handle. One has to worry about safety in city driving, and how close to work one has to be for it to be practical. If you work in any sort of fabrication facility, chances are you live a good distance from work. Wouldn't want to run out of juice on the side of the road in a vehicle that's difficult to refuel w/o a large time investment.
"A group of words expressing something other than their literal intention. Now that... is... irony!" - Bender
...a Beowulf Cluster of those things.
Or, just buy a regular car.
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
Strike 1: it's electric. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years no one wants electric cars, the public doesn't want electric cars. Baaaa.
Strike 2: single seater. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years that SUV's and trucks can do more for you, the public won't care about a car with a single seat. Baaaa.
Strike 3: limited range. After listening to the Big 3 say for years and years that a car should be able to drive across the US or Canada on a moment's notice... eh, you get the idea.
Sparrow concept = neat
Sparrow sales will = bleh
Personally, I like the Tango more than the Sparrow.
In any case, note that since top speed is 70mph, you'll only be able to drive 20 to 30 minutes at that speed. That hardly even qualifies as a commute by many people's standards!
It's a neat idea, but the batteries just aren't there. Still, I'm sure that battery technology has advanced a bit since 2000, right? Maybe they'll produce yet another upgraded version soon.
Ceci n'est pas une sig
Fire the market researchers! Why didn't they learn, right back from this - The Sinclair C5. It failed then, so why don't they learn that people don't want to ride around in something that makes them look like a fool?
Now, if they follow the examples set by manufacturers such as Toyota, where they make hybrid, dual fuel cars (gas/electric) that switch fuel type depending on the usage, we'll get to the point where we can effectively use less damaging energy sources. We're getting there, slowly, but this just isn't it.
when I can run my beauty on the one substance that stands for peace, freedom and the fight against terrorism - Liberated Iraqi Oil.
Given the number of times that brakes are mentioned in the list of improvements, one wonders if the lack of braking lead to the financial demise of the original company...
:
(the following upgrades and fixes have been added)
Improved Braking
Dielectric grease in connector [very nice]
Hard washers for Wheel bearings
New outer suspension, complete with brakes [!?]
Cover for front brake lines to eliminate shorting
Hard tubing for brake lines
Moved brake pressure line switch.
I don't think you should see it as a replacement for a car; rather it is an all-weather, electric alternative to a scooter, commuter bike or delivery vehicle. In Sweden, similar small, enclosed gasoline-engine moped-classed vehicles have become popular for just those roles. This could probably be a good higher speed alternative.
I guess that in a way, having USA as their home marked is not a good thing. You would probably see a lot more acceptance for this in Europe.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
What if you have to fit wife, kids, and dogs into your car?
Some might consider it an advantage that all of those entities won't fit in the car.
The Merlin Roadster is also a three wheel drive, but not as ugly and has an ICE. A mini review is here.
R(k)
The people responsible for this business plan need to understand that, if an invention turns out to be ugly, the chances than it can be spinned into something fashionable are quite slim.
They should be working to mitigate that, not enhance it by painting it purple!
www.enterweb.pt
At around $14,000 and only a 20-40 mile range I really can't see this as a real option for anyone. You can buy a hybrid car at that price. And get a range closer to 400 miles....
If the price were around $3,000 I'd consider it. Heck, even if the top speed were around 45 MPH I'd be happy enough.
As Nietsche famously said, "If you stare too long into the Abyss, 1d4 Tanar'ri of random type will attack you."
If you own one of these odds are your a nerd. So no wife and thus no kid. Now I WOULD bitch about the lack of room for adding computers, gps and Mp3 systems.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Hey ppl! Chk out this electric car -REVA -from India.
Features Grab:
This elegant, light-yet rugged, two-door sedan comfortably seats 2 adults in the front and 2 children upto a height of 5' and 6" (165 cms) in the rear. It has a range of 80 kilometers in stop-and-go city driving, and a top speed of 65 km/h.
you can read a review about it Here
It costs somethin like Rupees.2.20 lakhs (which is abt $5300).
Why does yahoo do this
What really has me curious is why they included power ports for laptops in the thing. With the battery life it has (or hasn't), who would dare add on anything that would use more electricity?
For that matter, why have power windows? The only reason I like power windows is so I can raise/lower passenger and rear windows. In this car, there isn't a window that is even the slightest bit difficult to reach by the driver.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Good aerodinamics (small contact area), small wheight, better security and weather protection than a motorcycle. Everything I would like in a ... gas vehicle.
Id buy one of these if it has a gas motor, I dont want to pay the wheight and cost of batteries, and want the flexibility (refueling everywhere) and manutenability of a gas engine. (no need to change that whole battery set once and while)
I seriously want a gas engine vehicle that consume much less, but no way Id like a battery powered vehicle.
Most electricity in the US is coming from coal fired plants which are pretty nasty in terms of burning fossil fuels. Maybe we should be like the French and more reliant on nuke plants? I dunno.
And then there are those batteries. Where do they go for disposal? How often are they replaced?
I don't think there is really any need for the vast majority of SUVs owned in the US, (or the aforementioned France which has recently found that SUVs are very popular there too) but until we get our electricty from some cleaner methods, I don't think electric cars are doing much good either.
this sig deleted by another sig
According to the web site, the battery pack is led acid, weighs just shy of 600lb, and lasts only 1 - 4 years.
If you are considering this vehicle as an eco-friendly alternative to gasoline cars, this is a huge factor. Lead acid batteries pose enormous environmental challenges, from mining, to worker lead exposure, to disposal. The only way I would even remotely consider a vehicle that could chew through a quarter ton of lead every year would be if the battery packs were recycled. What they should do is lease the battery packs, take the returns and recondition them.
IIRC, the Honda and Toyota hybrids use NiMH batteries. Nickel is not very toxic, especially compared to lead, and in fact were it not for their sheer size the battery packs could be disposed of in municipal landfills under federal regs. In principle the nickel could and should be recycled, but unfortunately neither Honda or Toyota have made a commitment to do so.
In my mind this lack of a clear recycling closes the environmental gap between hybrids and small, efficient conventional vehicles such as the Civic and Volkswagen diesels. Many people wouldn't see a dramatic mileage difference between a Toyota Prius and a Toyota Echo; but the gasoline car's proven technology might well translate to a longer service life, an a larger fraction of its components are likely to be recycled as scrap. Estimates are that 95% of the steel in scrapped autos is recovered and recycled.
In any case, this vehicle would be much cooler with NiMH batteries. The gravimetric energy density of NiMH are betwen 60-120 Wh/kg, as opposed to 30-50 for Pb-acid. So you could pack more than twice the energy in the same weight, and be talking about a 50-100 mile range instead of 20-40 miles. A NiMH battery would cost twice as much, but probably last at least twice as long, so the lifetime costs would be comparable, and the environmental costs would be much smaller.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
we've already had the future of personal transport over here for years... the Sinclair C5
they went down as well as Windows ME at a Linux Conference.
we've also done brightly coloured three-wheelers too... that design classic the Reliant Robin
However just when you think all european design sucks, take a look at the sexy Carver from the netherlands.
This is the way manufacturers will get people to buy smaller more efficient vehicles, in my opinion, by making them desirable and functional. Beautiful design wins customers, look at the success of the iPod.
According to this site, electric cars produce less emissions even when you count the power plant emissions.
In a study conducted by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, EVs were significantly cleaner over the course of 100,000 miles than ICE cars. The electricity generation process produces less than 100 pounds of pollutants for EVs compared to 3000 pounds for ICE vehicles. (See Table 3)
Engine Type CO ROG NOx Total
Gasoline 2574 262 172 3008 lb.
Diesel 216 73 246 835 lb. Electric 9 5 61 75 lb.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
reminds me of the old joke...
a couple of solicitors are sitting round discussing strange wills that they had executed...
the first tells of his client who had always loved golf, and wanted to be buried with his golf clubs...so come the funeral the solicitor puts the clubs on top of the coffin as per his clients wishes.
The second's client loved his dog, and wanted to take it with him, so come the funeral the solicitor takes a shotgun to the dog and puts him in the coffin as per his clients wishes
That's nothing says the last solicitor, my client loved money so much that he wanted to be buried with his entire 25 milion pound fortune...
Surely you didn't do it? the others ask...
But of course, he replied...
I put a personal cheque for the full amount in the coffin....
We saw the sparrow in CycleWorld in 1998, ordered one immediately, reservation number 38. Got it in March '00, after much design/redesign/rework by Corbin. It is absolutely the coolest vehicle we've ever owned (and we've owned more than a few vehicles.) The fit and finish was excellent, and it really looks better in person than it does in photographs. We do all our own maintenance, and have upgraded quite a few things on our bird. It'll do 100 MPH, has about a 40 mile range (which is rough on the batteries, 20 gives lots more charge cycles), carries 6 Kilowatt-Hours in its 13 batteries (i.e. it'll run your laptop _and_ your cellphone both for about 2 weeks - motive power takes orders of magnitude more juice than bit-flipping, a good freeway ramp acceleration can easily draw 300 amps at 160 volts - that's 48 KW, enough power to run ten average houses).
We've talked to (literally) over 2000 interested people in the last four years of driving, and have had hundreds of people say they'd buy one "tomorrow" if Corbin were in business, or if it was made by GM, or if it got a little better range. The big problem is battery technology. Lead acid batteries are big and heavy - even the expensive hi-tech spiral-cell units are tempramental and basically hate being discharged. Better batteries exist, like NiMH or Li-Ion, but right now they would add $4000 to the price of the vehicle - once those prices come down, the.Sparrow with a Li-ion pack could have a 200 mile range. As it sits, having a plug at work is probably a good idea.
Corbin's big problem was they had a design concept, but didn't want to listen to the expertise of the engineers they had. (They employed Jeff James, Peter Senkowski, and Claire Bell at various times - all electric vehicle experts, all ignored and blamed to greater or lesser degrees) Eventually the company collapsed in a mire of pointy-haired-boss syndrome and financial impropriety.)
I'm pleased to see that Myers is looking to improve on the design, and fix some of the things which Corbin addressed with hand-waving. (Although I must say that early on, Corbin was great about supplying parts, fixing problems, and listening to our comments. Then the money got tight.) I'd also love to see the DOT decide that there was a place on our highways for a smaller vehicle - the reason the Sparrow is a three-wheeler is that it gets around thousands of expensive, heavy, or (for an electric vehicle) downright contradictory "automobile" design requirements by being classed as a "motorcycle". However, this put weight and size restrictions on the vehicle which forced compromises on range and stability. Other countries have the concept of a mini-car, which can go at speeds above 25 MPH but may not be allowed on the highest speed freeways.
I'm also glad that there's somebody to buy a replacement windshield from - I've been worried that we'll take a stone one day, and I'll have a $14,000 paperweight!
The ultimate answer, as a motorcyclist, an electrical engineer, and a dedicated geek: With knowing in advance what we'd go through finding insurance, fixing problems, breaking drive belts, changing batteries... I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The Sparrow has been an absolute blast, a total head-turner, the ultimate conversation piece, and it's won a trophy in every car show we've entered it in - even got "People's Choice" in our home-town once!
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-- No No No NO, Don't tug on that! You never know what it might be attached to. - Buckaroo Banzai
I'm really glad you put your money where your mouth is! I have a friend who has a Sparrow and he also loves it. You make two incredibly insightful points.
1. Li-Ion/Li-Poly batteries! Exactly! Convert any existing vehicle and get roughly 3 times the range for even less weight. The laptop/cell phone/model airplane industry has been driving the market for years. They are just now starting to entire usage in people carrying vehicles. I firmly believe they will be in wide spread vehicular use in the next 10-20 years. The technology is here now, it will just take that "economy of scale" thing to make it a reality for the common person.
2. Infrastructure! I build record setting human and electric powered vehicles (check my website), and while I can build a vehicle that will go 100mph on 1 horsepower, there is simply no place to drive such a thing. The wind from an SUV/truck would hurl it off the road. I would love to see a alterative transportation network setup like rails-to-trails that allow for small and quiet vehicles. Maybe a 45 mph speed limit?
Regardless of what anyone says about the Corbin Sparrow, by purchasing one you are helping to pave the way for a cleaner more efficient transportaion system.
Thanks.
Yes, it is beautiful, but it is NOT "staggeringly well designed." Trust me on this; I was a former owner of a Sparrow, and found out -- the hard way -- that a three-wheeled, rear-driven layout is fundamentally unstable in the event of fishtail: flip, roll, totaled.
m essage/3680)
In addition, the quality of both design and construction was truly dismal. I wondered sometimes if the Corbins didn't bother to design anything ahead of time, but just sort of threw things together, bodged it around until it worked, kinda.
They had a cool concept, but absolutely no idea how to actually execute that in a reliable and profitable way, and so the Sparrows were MASSIVELY unreliable; mine was out of service for, literally, 2/3 or 3/4 of the time I owned it, and stalled -- twice! -- crossing the Bay Bridge. (Ever been stalled on the Bay Bridge? Now imagine doing so in a very small fiberglass container.)
No... there's no way this vehicle can be worthwhile without a ground-up redesign by folks who actually know what they are doing. I know nothing of Myers Motors, so maybe they are smart folks, but if they're starting with the existing design, they've already made a big mistake.
If, say, Honda, or Toyota, or even Piaggio, designed a vehicle like this, I might be interested....
(For more info on a Sparrow's crashworthiness, see: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sparrow_ev/
I drove one of these once. Zippy and small, but not very practical - one-seater designs have never been successful. Yes, it's economical, but I've also driven the Smart (here in North America), and it's a much better car, even if it does consume gas/diesel.