Road to the Robocup 2004

RuiFerreira writes "Artificial Intelligence and Robotics researchers meet in Portugal from 27th June to 5th July in the 8th Robocup Football World Championships. RoboCup is an international research and education initiative. Its goal is to foster artificial intelligence and robotics research by providing a standard problem where a wide range of technologies can be examined and integrated. The RoboCup Federation proposed the ultimate goal of the RoboCup Initiative to be stated as follows: 'By 2050, a team of fully autonomous humanoid robot soccer players shall win a soccer game, complying with the official FIFA rules, against the winner of the most recent World Cup of Human Soccer.' Robocup has an exciting programme including RoboCup Symposium, the RoboCup Soccer (humanoid, middle-size, small-size, 4-legged, simulation), the RoboCup Rescue (real and simulated robots) and the RoboCup Junior (dance, soccer and rescue) competitions. The robotic competitions will take place at Pavilion 4 of Lisbon Industry Fair located at the Parque das Nações, the site of the 1998 World Exposition (EXPO'98)."

Comments

pics & videos

[rd4tech]

http://www.robocup2004.pt/imgs/demos/segway-with-b all.jpg
http://www.fair.or.jp/robocup/2004/photo. htm

The end is near.

[Chucklz]

Skynet....

The soccer team became self-aware at 6:21 pm. Slashdotters everywhere scared shitless. Knew the end was coming, but were more concerned about their kernels.

robo rules 2004

[rd4tech]

ruls

Two words...

[Zorilla]

Robo Hooligans

film at 11:00...

[netwiz]

I, for one, welcome our new soccer robot masters...

Re:film at 11:00...

[obey13]

If your going to do the joke, you might as well do it right I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

Beating human players...

[DavidNWelton]

Will they be allowed to use lasers? Is that against FIFA rules?

I think the human players will win by rolling around the ground clutching their knees to draw penalty shots. A robot will never be able to do that convincingly.

Re:Beating human players...

[hkfczrqj]

I think the human players will win by rolling around the ground clutching their knees to draw penalty shots.

You're right, but robots can have ultra-sentitive detectors so when a player comes near, the robot mysteriously falls, rolls on the floor and some fake blood comes out of its structure.

Also, robots can have more "eyes" than humans, so they can foul/spit/punch humans and be sure that no referee was watching.

a GOAL!

[jokach]

I wonder if the robots will run around taking off their shirts when they score a goal ...

Re:a GOAL!

[betelgeuse-4]

That would be a breach of FIFA rules. Really, it would.

Re:a GOAL!

[saigon_from_europe]

Actually, I never undrestood why players strip their shirts.

Let us presume that this behavior is really meaningless (as I believe it is). So programmers could intentionaly code this practice in robots' AI. The coach of human team will think that robots are stupid since they are doing this. He will underestimate robot team, which will be the way robots get some minor tactical advantage.

Hopefuly, Goran Ericsson and Rudi Voeler are too old to be capable of leading human team in 2050, so that gives good chances for humans to win.

humanoid

[InternationalCow]

We'll know that they're really close to being like humans when they start asking ridiculous salaries, wear interesting hairdo's and date has-been pop stars :)

Re:humanoid

[Zorilla]

All they need is a Brazilian robot name....like Robaldo

Don't forget the simulation league.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is the server for the simulation league. I helped code a team for one of my college classes; it was pathetic :). The University of Amsterdam Trilean team has won three years straight. You should check it out; their team kicks some serious ass. If you're interested in the simulation league, be sure to check out the publications by the Trilearn team. The Master's thesis especially is a must read for anyone attempting to write a client. Tons of information on everything from self-localization to optimal-pass-determination.

if it's down to penalties it will be sooner ;-)

[fantomas]

By 2050, a team of fully autonomous humanoid robot soccer players shall win a soccer game..

Well I think if it comes down to penalties against England, they might not have to wait until 2050... has Beckham's shot come out of orbit yet?

Re:2050 way too soon

[rebelcool]

robotics and classical AI, while related, have diverged alot in the past 20 years. The future of practical AI will probably be found in robotics.

Classical AI has made little progress at all. Cyc is really a formal machine that is the epitome of classical AI, and all its bizarre limitations - and it doesn't do hardly anything. Autonomous robotics on the other has made leaps and bounds. If you think things like the QRIO and Asimo are impressive, wait till you see their platforms are merged with the latest navigation and communication abilities currently found in labs. Part of the point of the robocup is to show off the latest in teamwork abilities.

2050 is a reasonable estimate and a decent goal. You don't need a robot that will debate the meaning of life and philosophy with you to play good soccer. I somehow doubt many of those soccer players could do that very well, either :)

Consider how it wasn't all that long ago that assertions were being continously made that machines could never beat a human at chess...

Re:2050 way too soon

[Saeger]

I think that robots winning against a human team will happen much much later than 2050.

It's more a gut feeling than a "sicentific based" prediction

Your "gut feeling" is more accurately described as the "common-sense intuitive linear" view of the rate of change, and it would be wrong.

It took evolution 1 billion years to create animals that run around and "act smart".

If you'd look a little closer, you'd notice that each evolutionary advancement took exponentially less time. Exponential progress is a feature of ANY evolutionary system, including technology.

From the Law of Accelerating Returns:

If we examine the timing of these steps, we see that the process has continuously accelerated. The evolution of life forms required billions of years for the first steps (e.g., primitive cells); later on progress accelerated. During the Cambrian explosion, major paradigm shifts took only tens of millions of years. Later on, Humanoids developed over a period of millions of years, and Homo sapiens over a period of only hundreds of thousands of years.

With the advent of a technology-creating species, the exponential pace became too fast for evolution through DNA-guided protein synthesis and moved on to human-created technology. Technology goes beyond mere tool making; it is a process of creating ever more powerful technology using the tools from the previous round of innovation. In this way, human technology is distinguished from the tool making of other species. There is a record of each stage of technology, and each new stage of technology builds on the order of the previous stage.

The first technological steps-sharp edges, fire, the wheel--took tens of thousands of years. For people living in this era, there was little noticeable technological change in even a thousand years. By 1000 A.D., progress was much faster and a paradigm shift required only a century or two. In the nineteenth century, we saw more technological change than in the nine centuries preceding it. Then in the first twenty years of the twentieth century, we saw more advancement than in all of the nineteenth century. Now, paradigm shifts occur in only a few years time. The World Wide Web did not exist in anything like its present form just a few years ago; it didn't exist at all a decade ago.

Robotics is just one advancing tech we'll see on the shortening road to the Singularity.

--

Re:Sounds easy.

[m1kesm1th]

I wouldn't say Greece bribed anyone, but the Swiss referee in the Portugal match was overtly biased on more than one occasion. Though I doubt this was bribery.

Although the Swiss are renowned for their impartiality this kind of makes me wonder if sour grapes didn't have something to do with it.

Although I am from England i'm not always patriotic and although we lost to France and later to Portugal, I think the better playing by the other team (France) meant they deserved it.

However, although I think they deserved to win. I also believe the disallowed goal, was the wrong decision, which would have meant the England win. I would have also doubted any further progression after that match.

Maybe referees shouldn't be from qualifying nations.

Of course none of this would happen I suppose if there were robot referees (or if they actually asked to see action replays, or listened to the linesmen).

Re:Sounds easy.

[Khazunga]

I could achieve that next time Euro comes around; just do what Portugal and Greece did this time. Bribing the referee is no longer against FIFA rules. :-)

I can only answer with a "Daily Show" Whaaaa?

Let's just say the backbone of the Portuguese national team are FC Porto players: Nuno Valente, Ricardo Carvalho, Jorge Andrade (former player), Paulo Ferreira, Costinha, Maniche and Deco. Finish up the Champions' League winner team with players the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Figo, and only ignorance could claim Portugal needs referee work to win against any Euro'2004 team. We did stumble the first time, because a naive Scolari thought he could rely on former glory players like Couto. No longer. He's on the right track, and now we're poised to be European Champions.

Re:Sounds easy.

[Khazunga]

I also believe the disallowed goal, was the wrong decision,

The keeper gets run over in his area, and it isn't foul? What kind of football do you play in England?

Do keep up.

[Chuck Chunder]

taking off the shirt is considered acceptable behaviour again.

From July 1st it must be punished. FIFA evidently have a lot of time on their hands. The PDF is a bit of a laugh too.

"Removing one's shirt after scoring is unnecessary and players should avoid such excessive displays of joy."

Boring fuckers.

Re:Do keep up.

[br0ck]

It is a silly rule.. it reminds me of American Football's new rules prohibiting celebrating of touchdowns. Why are they demonizing the very moments that make sports worth watching? Is it not PC to like to score?

Actually, I did hear some weak rationale regarding the no-shirt-removal rule was due to many players wearing controversial messages on their t-shirts underneath and worries that something really bad might be displayed on worldwide broadcast. Whatever. This is from the same FIFA president that's made tons of weird suggestions including one--quite the opposite the no-shirt removal rule--that women should wear sexier outfits.

Re:2050 way too soon

[giampy]

I agree on practically all the points.
I think robotics is the way to go, and it is also much more challenging...

I guess that what i was trying to say is that, if you look carefully, create a small robot that acts smart and actively interacts with the environment, MAY very well be more difficult than create a robot that can discuss the meaning of life.

QRIO and Asimo are impressive but they are way below the "smartness" of cats and mouses,
which simply means there is a long way to go in autonomous robotics.

Classical AI will reach its limitations very soon,
Will that will bring a machine that can discuss the meaning of life ?
I don't know but i think we will find out in the next 20 years.

Re:Riots

[Nexus Seven]

Every true soccer fan calls it football.
Besides which, the riotting usually comes when a team loses.