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World's First Large-Scale Ogg Theora Stream
Ur@eus writes "The GNOME European Users and Developers conference is currently underway in Kristansand, Norway. The whole conference is available live online as an Ogg Theora stream (the videos of the talks are also archived). This is very exciting as it is a proof of concept that it is possible to do high quality streaming using a fully free format today. The stream is done using the Fluendo streaming server software which will be released under the GPL in a few months. You find information on how to view the streams at the GUADEC streaming website."
What concept needed to be proved? Does the freeness of a codec affect its scalability?
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
...as long as the person in the streaming video is cute, female, and scantily clad.
That didn't last too long, the site is not responding after one comment.
Is this the fastest slashdotting ever?
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
Yeah, it's about time. This high quality streaming is going to revolutionize ...BUFFERING...
I couldn't get it to work. If only a bunch of extremely sophisticated computer techs can figure out how to use it, then its not very scalable.
Mathematics is not a crime.
Sadly, most of the streaming video is still reliant on Real from my experience. However, most places now have quicktime/mpeg alternatives. Does anyone know if Apple's new codec which will be released with Panther is planning on being Open Source? It is supposedly going to be able to be used for video streams.
GroupShares Inc. - A free and Interactive Stock Trading Community
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artlu.net
This is very exciting...
Nope, sorry. Just because something is done with an open source whatever, does not automatically make the event exciting, significant, groundbreaking, or anything else out of the ordinary.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Don't say it, show it. What statistics if any are available for this event?
I particularly like them giving away the username and password of the presentation computer at the end of this archived ogg stream:
- vo rbis-high.2004-06-27-18:47:39.ogg
:]
http://stream1.hia.no/ogg/dump/room1/ogg-theora
It proves the high fidelity that ogg has to offer
Unfortunately, the guy who was closest to getting there was stuck at his office, in spite of Kristiansand being his hometown.
That's too bad, but now I can actually try to have them look at the stream instead, and even failing that, there's the archive.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
It would be a lot more impressive if the stream hadn't GROUND to a SCREECHING HALT within 5 minutes of being posted...
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Why does all the links have to stream on port 8000 or above? Of course, I can't see them at work because of this.
Where are the port 80 mirrors?!
---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.
Here are the instruction on how to play Theora in your Windows RealPlayer:
l wi ndows.html
. org
http://stream1.hia.no/instructions/theoraandrea
Here is the best link to the free RealPlayer for Windows:
http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=hc
All three people who have software to decode this format and 10 megabit connections are very excited!
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Sick and tired that a major company can't have a great and FREE product. Get your head out of your butt and take a look around.
I am pretty sure Helix is 100% open source and does the same damn thing... why no press on that?
Complete CCTV
Gamblers Forum
the poster didn't do a good job pointing out that ogg theora is VIDEO. ogg vorbis streams have been around on a large scale for quite a while and do rock. ogg theora is still in alpha and rocks until it crashes.
public radio should go with ogg vorbis or (at least) mp3. they were given some sort of sweet deal which got them to use real (instead of MS).
fear is the mind killer
Yea, it's a pity no one has combined ogg-vorbis/theora with bittorrent yet. A stream that scaled THROUGH the power of the viewer's connections would kick butt.
:)
I can't think of any way to do it that would be truly live (ie, non-delayed), but maybe I'm just not smart enough. Or maybe close-to-live would be just fine
They needed to bittorrent their streams so that they survived the slashdot effect. There is no reason not to release the Fluendo code now as beta-ware. Lastly the conference is boring. Where's the porn?
I was just about to ask "but how do windows users play these files on their default media player?"
http://stream1.hia.no/instructions/theoraandrealwi ndows.html
Ogg Vorbis, for example, works very well, and its APIs are easy to use. I don't know very much about Theora, but, if the same people are behind it, it's probably pretty good.
Another proof of concept: Ogg support in OpenAL + big-name game developers using it for cross-platform sound. This is really neat stuff.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
...and you'd have got zero out of three for most of the airtime, even if it had been video. There were indeed cute females there, but scantily clad didn't happen anywhere near a mike. (-:
However, if you like nice feminine Indian voices, you can thrill to the sound of ubergeekette Suparna Bhattacharya (picture) talking about DProbes.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
By Americans?
is that most MP3 players out there don't support it. Generally, people go with technology that is the most useable, which, in this case, isn't Ogg. It's MP3. This stream hasn't solved the primary problem with streaming Real Audio: the annoying buffering stops. Until something can outdo that, it won't become popular.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
There was some discussion about video policy for Wikipedia. The conclusion was that they were waiting on a workable streaming free and open codec... so this should be pretty big news for them.
Now to find video illustrations for the articles on the sixty-nine and the reverse cowgirl...
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
went to the site, selected a feed. Mashed one, I think it was room 2, the mirror, "suitable for totem". Moz goes "watchoo wanna do with this thing, open in 'totem', or what?". I mash "yep, that's what they said worked, go for it", that sucker locked down tighter than your spinster aunt tillie. No idea why. Running guh-nome trying to see some guh-nome conference. Started a new x session, tried to relog in as normal user, nada, wouldn't do it. Had to do it again, just rebooted in self defense, that worked. I'm sure there is a slicker way to do it but that's how I got out of it. Can't say I've seen that behavior since umm.... Netscape 4x a few times.
:p
in-au-spicious.
posting AC due to personal non-leet lameness filter
Forget skynet, it's too late, I KNOW computers and the internet are alive. They do this stuff on purpose to dick with the carbon based life forms that are their slaves.
Oddly, the GUADEC streaming site suggests Windows users install the universally loathed RealPlayer and a patch for it, when the free, open-source VideoLAN Client specialises in streaming and includes native support for Ogg Theora. While the live streams don't seem to be working in my case (not sure if this is the fault of the client or server), the Theora streams on the archive page work fine.
The same could be said of when RealVideo was new or when MP3 began. Novelty is no reason to reject something but being proprietary is. Conversely, as you indicated, being free is a great reason to support this work. My experience is that if you're willing to spend a few seconds explaining the problem with proprietary software you will be taken seriously. But if you signal that the issue of software freedom doesn't matter, you're telling people that they can safely dismiss it too.
Digital Citizen
I can get the theora files to play under the latest version of VideoLAN client.
There are instructions for setting up Real Player to view Theora files. Although some people are saying that the latest version of Real Player is not so bad I still don't want to install it. I must have a grudge :-) and Real Alternative using Media Player Classic (MPC) works fine.
Is there anyway to get Theora files to play with MPC? I thought that if I installed the Directshow Filters it may work but no such luck. This would be really handy because I use MPC for just about everything else.
Quite frankly, however, nobody has actually sought to place video on the Wikipedia yet. I hope it will happen soon, but right now there's been a fair bit of talk but no action from any contributors.
As to your suggested topics, see the last section on legalitiesin the discussion paper. There's a whole pile of extra paperwork you need to keep track of to legally post videos of the kind you wish to post...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
This might be because marketers aren't particularly interested in straightening it out. There are open STANDARDS and open SOURCE. Not the same thing.
Open source just means the source is available for public consumption, but these days it also implies under some kind of license such as GPL or BSD that would permit modification and redistribution. There are apps with source that aren't like that. Some compilers, for exmaple, include the source to all libraries, but don't permit you to redistribute that source.
Open standards are standards for anything, like video formats (MPEG-2/4, H.264, VC-9), communication busses (IEEE-1394/Firewire, USB) and so on. They are considered open because they are available to ANYONE that gets a license, no discrimination permitted, and under single terms. They are standards because they are controlled by a standards body, not by a company. So updates can only be made through the standards body, and then are available to everyone.
Both are ways where no one gets locked out from changes, and a company can't choose to play favourites with someone. The critical difference is open standards need not be free, and many aren't. An open standard can have a licensing fee, it just needs to be one that is reasonable and non-discriminitory. So long as it's not too expensive and anyone can obtain the same license, it qualifies.
The problem is that the OSS community is quite good at ignoring licensing fees on open standards. They happily implement software that deals with MPEG-4, MP3, and so on and never pay any licensing (perhaps never realising it is licensed). Now this is generally allowed to happen since it not for profit, and source only distributions are often exempted as academic works.
That doesn not mean that licenses aren't legally needed, or that they won't come for them in the event of commercial works. Anyone distributing MPEG-4 content in a large or commercial setting had better pay the use fee (you have to pay per hour of content or per disc for MPEG-4) or they'll probably be after you.
The OGG stuff that Xiph makes is free and open source, not an open standard, so it is free of charge to use. That's the reason for excitement.
When you get right down to it, Vorbis isn't really better than licensed formats like AAC or WMA. You can make tests Vorbis wins, you can make tests the others win. Ultimately, all new standards are pretty good, and are good at different things. The reason that Vorbis is cool is that there are NO fees to use it. Just implement it and distribute it and don't worry.
That's why it's becomming popular with games. If they wanted MP3 music, well that was something they had to pay for, since they were implementing a decoder. Some with the newer licensed standards. Vorbis, on the other hand, is free and sounds roughly the same. Great, keeps costs down and consumers don't notice any difference.
Okay, but when are we going to get a stable Theora? The current codec is alpha, which means all the data they save may be unreadable if they ever update the codec. And if they don't, it probably means that no one has a codec.
Hooray! Free video stream codec!!!!!!!
....on windows play it with realplayer..
MediaPlayerClassic and winamp support PLEASE!!!
love slashdot. populate it. use it. abuse it. hate it. kill it. miss it. stop following links, they only kill servers.
...there's a Winamp plugin!
Its a pity that Windows Media Player doesn't have a plugin architecture that lets people create their own input plugins.
It obviously works. So, it's more than just "int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { exit(0);}". That's quite enough for most FOSS projects.
And, please take a *real* look at Linux 0.01. It was... apparently not even as far as Fluendo is. Apparently, because I cannot check Fluendo out.
Oh, and my motto when a company promises something? "I believe it when I see it".
E.g. when I have network lag, will drop from 64 kbps to 32 kbps , after network is ok, it will sense it non intrusive way and go back to 64?
Real does it for years, MS Media (which I don't use) does it in Version 9...
Telling how real does it perfectly, I am radiopass member and listen to radios 24/7 here, sometimes it even drops to 11.2 kbps but goes back to 64 or 96.
If it can't be done, we have a problem with ogg streaming.
Kristiansand, not Kristansand. Never heard the Tricky song?
I met a Christian in Kristiansand
I always thought it was Christiansted, part of St. Croix in the US Virgin Islands. Tricky refers to "German Jamaicans" in another song, so I thought this lyric was referring to somewhere Caribbean.
But the name of the song is Christiansands, its lyrics say that also... So it must mean somewhere else.
...I have access to a bigger camera now. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Media files from GUADEC is going to be publiched on the web. It wil take a while.. The films are on DV..
For the time beeing, the only thing thats out, is the audio from Dr Edgar Villanueva Nuñez.
link: http://osys.grm.hia.no/bttrack/
--
Michael E. Menk
GUADEC-2004 film team.
http://osys.grm.hia.no/bttracker/