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NYT Magazine: Are Comics The New Mainstream Novels?
securitas writes "The New York Times Magazine cover story this week is a (typically) long feature about the rise of comic books and graphic novels into mainstream culture, with writer Charles McGrath (former editor of the Book Review) stating: 'Comic books are what novels used to be -- an accessible, vernacular form with mass appeal ... perfectly suited to our dumbed-down culture and collective attention deficit.' McGrath cites the mid-1980s birth of a movement that began and fizzled with Maus (Art Spiegelman), Love & Rockets (Hernandez Bros.) Watchmen (Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons) and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller). The current renaissance in graphic novels include non-fiction Palestine (Sacco), non-fiction Persepolis (Satrapi) which has sold 450,000 copies, Ghost World (Clowes), American Splendor (Pekar), Road to Perdition (Collins) and Chris Ware's Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth, which won the 2001 Guardian Prize for best first book and has sold 100,000 in hardcover. McGrath interviews Marjane Satrapi, Julie Doucet, Joe Sacco, Art Spiegelman, and Alan Moore, among others. The article also has a multimedia interactive feature with many of the graphic novelists (registration required) in the magazine article."
The author of the article barely makes mention of it except to crack a joke. Manga has been mainstream entertainment for people of all ages/social status for years in Japan, and accounts for about 1/3 of all books and magazines published there (and several billion US dollars in sales). Where 'Comic Books' are considered Geeky in the US, Manga is read by everyone from children to housewives to businessmen.
It's about time we started catching up...
Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
> Are Comics The New Mainstream Novels?
This may be true, although I have a slightly different perspective. I think we just really like the people who make comics, because they are expressive people; these same people could do anything else and we would like it just as much. For example, take Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert. I have been holding out for the next Scott Adams novel (not comic, read: handbook). I was greatly amused, and felt better protected against the weasels in society, after reading "The Way of the Weasel." This was a fantastic read, filled with cynical, yet practical knowledge, to help combat the weasels ruining our workplaces and our private lives. Sure Dilbert comics make an appearances in TWotW, to illustrate concise points, but they only accent the rest of the book and support points raised with classic Dilbert humour. His writing is stunning -- and wholly useful. I can only hope he writes another one of these because I found it totally useful, as I'm sure many of you have.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
...for all your dumbed down graphic-novel reading needs.
Seriously, if you've never read it, it doesn't get more bloody or offensive than that... my favorite graphic novel by far.
Yep, good old New York Times, never missing a chance to sneer at popular culture.
After all, if people actually like it, it can't possibly be good.
Perfectly suited to our dumbed-down culture and collective attention deficit...
I think that's a bit harsh for novels and graphic novels. Some of the comics cited above are difficult, intelligent stories with involved character development and a good story to tell.
Calling that dumbed-down undersells the artists and the readership.
I'm pretty sure someone was saying that about Dickens in his day.
Cheers!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
It might just be my imaginiation, but the golden age of comics is over, with all those web comics swamping the already broad selection it's hard to find a decent one.
Not to mention cathy, someone shoot the creator already
I kninda fell in love with Wulff Morgenthaler though, humour that's sick enough for me.
I'm sure many of we lovers of the medium of comics will object to the "dumbed-down" comment"
Comic reading implies a different kind of literacy.
Not an illiteracy.
We know many people who don't read comics because, as they say, "we don't get it".
I pity the comic-illiterate, for the unique joy that they lose out on.
And I question the implication that comics are "dumb".
Many literary works of great sophistication, not to mention beauty, happen to be comics.
How can you have a post on graphic novels without including Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" series? ;)
:)
Seriously, this is some of the most amazing stuff ever to come out, both with respect to storyline and art. Gaiman is a master wordsmith and weaves elements of ancient religion, existential philosophy, and wry british humor into his works. More here, here, and at Gaiman's Blog.
Seriously, check it out. This stuff is awesome
-JT
You must be new here...
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
The one I enjoy is a bit different from the dumb spandex wearing underwear fetish superhero comics, but conceptually more challenging fare. one real masterpiece of the comics medium I have seen in recent times is The Smartest Kid On Earth. It's an almost oppressively bleak look at the commonplace estrangements that make up much of modern life. There is a leavening of black humour however, and the outstanding art is a delight in itself.
Mucho recommended
[ I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance ] -- Isaac Asimov
Don't get me wrong: I'm a lifelong fan and reader of the medium, I've done a little on the creative end of it as well, and continue to do so as an avocation. But it is not (yet) a phenomenon of mainstream media.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I find graphic novels paint a mood in an instant without resorting to pages of descriptive text. In an fleeting moment, you can sum up the scene perfectly. Try doing that in a full page of text.
:P
There is also the fact that the graphic novels are usually serialised, thus keeping the interest from one issue to the next - not a constant build-up and single climax as with most "modern fiction".
It also seems easier to spot reused plots in graphic novels
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
Is it that comics are growing in popularity for our "dumbed-down culture", or that Hollywood - having run out of new ideas long ago - has renewed interested in comics because they're remaking so many comics - both new and old - into movies?
No. Sure, I'm echoing an AC's sentiment, but here, I'm not being a jackass about it.
if Comics really were an influence in American culture, then why is the industry itself in the shits? If it wasn't for comicmovies, Marvel probably would've filed for bankruptcy AGAIN. I'm looking here and seeing bankruptcies in 1996 and 2002. That's not healthy under ANY measure.
Not just that, but I've been observing the comics industry, and I'm sorry to say that it's devouring itself alive. Alternative book saren't selling, so they have to really press on old, rehashed characters, which inturn turns off non-geek types who'd normally be turned on by alternative books.
They're playing only to thier base, which is getting smaller in terms of population percentages rather than try to diversify. I mean, I'd hate to say it, but the American industry could learn a thing or two about the Japanese industry. Not by using big eyes and other cliches(like Marvel did, fucking mangaverse bullshit), but rather, instead by trying to diversify the market to the point where there's a story for everyone, published in a cheap, easy to access form. Japanese monthlies are about 600 yen(about 5 bucks, I think, it's been awhile since i've priced the bigass phonebook style compilations, i'm probably off base here) and come with between 10-20 or so stories. Some publishers even run weeklies. In America, for about that much, you can get two seperate books which probably havee thick, and I mean THICK, continuity. And you're stuck with ONE genre. Super-hero action-adventure. Even though most compilations are typically gender/themed(Nakayoshi comes to mind, where SailorMoon and MKR was published), you tend to get a mix of stories.
Not to mention that those books play to only one group, and those are the comicbook fanboys. As much as comic books are for supposedly for kids, these days they're more for 15-20something fanboys who tend to do poorly socially(my crowd, I never got the whole comic thing though).
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
He said, "That's right. It make things a lot easier and cheaper."
There you go.
Why do all the old line types insist on trying to make any media that is more visual typcast as being less intellegent. Every mass media goes thru a few stages in it's evolution. 1-"Golden age"-Only the elite have access to it, so it is focused towards the interests of the elite. 2-"Silver age"-Less lofty in content, but popularity grows rapidly, usually this is when people say it will "revolutionize the way people communicate" 3-The "Porn age"-least lofty content as the money guys come in and the lowest common denominator is applead to 4-The "ho-hum" age-the media becomes an acepted part of everyday life and overlooked. Print, radio (one with am, once with fm)the internet, and each iteration of the media (like, print went through it with paperbacks, then again with desk top publishing, the internet went thru it with the first net, then with wireless) it haapens again and again, now it's comics turn. Tv went thru this twice, once with broadcast, once with cable, then a minor progression with satlletit, and again with digiatal cable.
http://www.geocities.com/sethseekstruth/great_out
Sadly I find our culture is all about working too much and not having enough free time to have a real culture. No wonder we have an attention deficit, we can't even sit down and have fun that the week end is already long gone.
that depends on what you're looking for in literature. if you're looking for great prose and a mastery of the english language, you're absolutely right. you're going to find that in umberto eco and toni morrison and not in a graphic novel. however, if, as the previous poster cited, you're interested in a complex, interesting story and character development, you can find that in the watchmen, transmetropolitan, or any of a number of other comics. graphic novels are almost totally a different artform than literature, and i don't think it's fair to compare the two.
-ninjaneer
Well... It all really depends on where you are reading comics. Am leaving in Ireland now. And here, it's impossible to get people to realize that comics is not just for kids, silly simple minded stuff. To be honest I failed systematicaly in trying to explain that. I am actually from France. In that place the main stream of comic sale is targeted to adults. Not always light easy-goi'n stuff, meaningless, efortless.
I strongly disagry with this idea it's necessarily easy. One example only. Read the Meta-Baron caste by Jorodovski and Jimenez. Read especially the out-of-serie issue of this saga. You will notice that comic scenario can be quite complex, deeply rooted into theories (psycho-analysis, social...). The drawings are nothiong fare from art. Read about the way Jimenez things about front pages as paintings before starting. The inspiration he got from samurai times, mixed with soap-opera style... I discovered in amsterdam he draws the nun after Brugel. I think it's quite interesting.
No. Sorry, no, comics can be rather demanding in understanding. About previous example, I'd say you probably need a 3 reads before you kind a get an overall picture. And this is just one example. Right now I think about others comics dealing with human being identity, genetics, cloning... I can't help thinking for some BD's (comics in french), as pieces of art, with the same insight that SF can have.
A bit the same way information is turned into something ridiculous on TV, comics can be as well. It's just up to us no to make crap out'a good things. Likely as well, if you'r brain-dead with not an inch of background stuff, you won't even see the richness, the references...
I don't know why in france, comics are considered as adult material as valid as any other books can be.
Maybe the article author is dumbed-down? Or else he's making a paper on sales, which is pretty irrelevent to what comics are.
Ciao ciao.
Here you go Slashdotters, my two cents. I'm sure you'll have some good criticisms of this letter as well:
It is about time people like Bendis and Stan Lee get credit for creating the wonderful works. If I compare comics to the numerous trash magazines, I'll take a good comic any day.
Maus (which won the PULITZER prize) is one of the most powerful books EVER written about history's worst crime, The Holocaust.
Just because it's a "comic-book" does not mean it is "dumbed-down" or any less than a novel. Is "The Godfather," "Gone with the Wind," "Lord of the Rings" or "Shrek" any less of an art form because it is in motion picture form as opposed to the written word?
Maus is amazing. My dad got it for me in 7th grade and I have re-read it more than any other book is history.
Video is more likely to replace mainstream novels than comic books.
More people watch TV than read (sadly), and given another decade or two, we should all start having a very portable way to view video directly from the net.
I think comics may well be supplanted by home-brewed animation. A technically literate illustrator can create his own animated short in about the same amount of time as it once took to complete a monthly comic, using today's tools. As the tools evolve, it may become even easier. (Right now, programmers still don't seem to fully grasp what it is artists need from their tools. But more and more traditional artists are finally beginning to cross over into the digital medium, so I expect they will make themselves heard, and the tools...and the content... will improve.) We are also seeing more and more hybrid electronic formats, which look less like comics and more like animation all the time.
Forget dead trees. We will all be publishing ourselves electronically before long.