Jack Valenti: The Exit Interview

thecounterfeit writes "Engadget has an interview with Jack Valenti, the outgoing president of the MPAA and the object of hatred for many hacker after he took he on DVD Jon, who is retiring tomorrow after more than three decades on the job. Engadget could have been a little harder on him when he says stuff like, "When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies," but it is at least slightly encouraging to hear that he owns a TiVo."

Comments

It comes down to cost for the backup...

[phaetonic]

Engadget could have been a little harder on him when he says stuff like, "When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies,"

If there was a way to duplicate a cognac glass for 10 cents each, it'd be a different story.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[mirko]

No, it was if the glass's goal were to hold information that it'd have to be replaced.
So the analogy was wrong in the beginning.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can they make their mind up about whether we buy their product or just license it? If I can't do as I please with what I paid money for, then they sure as hell will have to provide the backup which I would have made otherwise.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Ianoo]

The difference is that when you break the Cognac glasses, you don't automatically loose the Cognac...

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Zorilla]

That's a relief. I've always been worried about my Cognac becoming loose.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Ianoo]

I apologise for my atrocious error. I don't usually make the loose/lose mistake, indeed, I'm usually the one pointing it out. Obviously some self-flagellation is in order.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[LiquidCoooled]

Could you flagellate yourself in private please, some of us are trying to eat lunch here.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[dj245]

The **IA's aren't selling you cognac glasses, they are letting you borrow a cognac glass and selling you a license to use it. You can't let a friend borrow it, and you can't make a wax model of it. Would it not be fair to give you another if you break it, since you paid for the license, not the glass?

Either they are selling the CDs, or they are selling licenses, they can't have it both ways.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, as far as I am concerned, they can choose any business model they like. The thing is, they don't stop there. They screw us over with laws which make many legitimate and interesting uses of technology impractical or outright illegal even for those of us who generally abide by the rules.

If we, the people, are supposed to grant them these special rights, we demand something in return. Something which we like to call "fair use" and "backup copies". This is not a free market debate, it's a legislative debate. The only reason there even is a debate about backup copies is because the law acknowledges that information is not the same as physical property. Unlike physical property, it is easy and cheap to copy information, especially digital information. Information is also valuable independent of physical form. For this reason, the law treats information differently. For the very same reason I don't want to hear some reality distorting analogy about cognac glasses, and also for the same reason, backup copies should be a consumer right. It is merely a way of preserving your property ("the right to listen to that song"). If the **AAs don't want us to make the copies, then they will have to provide them.

If we keep retreating because someone tells us that we can achieve our goals by making our choices within the confinement of their rules, then they will keep changing the rules to their advantage until we positively won't be able to do anything which hurts their business model.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[DMNT]

I'd compare that he's saying "If you break your cognac glass, you no longer can drink cognac. Go ahead and buy new glass and a bottle."

I believe I'm allowed to finish my cognac from my other (non-cognac) glasses in case I happen to break the original 500 crystal glass.

MPAA sells you a physical copy and the digital material on it. When you break one, you've bought physical copy that now has to be replaced. It's no longer the digital material you thought you bought. When you copy the digital material, it's all of sudden the digital material that you've bought and now you're stealing it. Heads - MPAA wins, tails - you lose.

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[ultranova]

The right to make backups isn't that universal.

I can't make a backup of my kidney (via cloning). And if I don't own my own organs, what do I own.

Perhaps you might show the copyright-related law that forbids you from cloning yourself a new kidney ? Surely you realize that your body is, at this very moment, replacing dead cells in your kidneys (and everywhere else, too) with new, live ones (at least I'm assuming so, since you were healthy enough to write to Slashdot) ? So, if you have no right to clone new organs, then you are in violation as long as you live, since your body is always incrementally replacing the old organ with a new copy...

Coming to think of it, some genetic sequences have been patented, so if you happen to have one of them, you'd better not reproduce them (make children).

But if someone tries to go around making prescription drug factories, they'll get in very big trouble.

Really ? Then how do the prescription drugs get made ?

Or is someone confusing copyrights with patents or anti-drug laws ?

Re:It comes down to cost for the backup...

[Phisbut]

What's funny though is that he contradicts himself at the same time :

When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies. Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever (emphasis mine)

Exactly our point. What we bought is not the plastic disc, it's the digital thing. If the plastic disc breaks, we shouldn't need to buy a new digital thing, just a plastic disc. Just like if the cognac glass breaks, we don't need to buy new cognac, just a new glass.

Wha?

[Anonymous Coward]

DVD Jon is retiring?

Re:Wha?

[pjt33]

I'm more disturbed by the claim that he's been on the job for three decades. I thought he was only about 20.

Jack Quote

[Famatra]

"When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies"

Since CDs can stop working with a small scratch, unlike Cognac glasses, and the studios prevent back ups then they are the ones to replace it. Give us the ability to back up our software, Jack, and we won't need to bother you about replacements.

Re:Jack Quote

[Lord Kano]

Give us the ability to back up our software, Jack, and we won't need to bother you about replacements.

We have that ability, stop trying to put us in jail for using it.

LK

Re:Jack Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Give us the ability to back up our software, Jack, and we won't need to bother you about replacements.

This is entirely the wrong attitude. They don't have to give us the ability to back things up, they need to stop taking the ability away from us!

Re:Jack Quote

[Dun Malg]

Given the example of 'cognac glasses', i think it subtly shows just how out-of-touch Valenti is with the consumers. His example would have been just as relevant if he was talking about bottles of Coke.

"Hey, if you pull out of the driveway of your mansion in Bel-Air and ram one of your twelve Rolls Royce Silver Shadows into a tree because you you spilled caviar on your Zegna suit, you have to go down to the Rolls Royce dealer, pull out your American Express card, and buy a new one just like everyone else does."

CDs/Movies are not cognac glasses...

[rdean400]

...but the cognac glass maker should not prevent me from making my own cognac glasses in case the ones I purchased from them break.

Funny Guy

[soman]

No one asks the stores to do copies for them, they do the copies them self.

When you go to the department store...

[cs02rm0]

...and buy 10 cognac glasses, you'd be pretty pissed if you weren't allowed to get a handful of sand and have a go yourself, or let your friends borrow them.

Re:When you go to the department store...

[Ath]

Don't forget that if you plan to use the Cognac glasses in a restaurant or other public place, you have to buy a special version of those glasses. They are the same, but you have to pay for the right to use them in public.

Also, those Cognac glasses are only for a certain kind of Cognac. You are not allowed to use them to drink unlicensed brands of Cognac. And don't even think about putting anything else in them. Want to drink water out of them? If we catch you, we will sue you.

Valenti is an idiot. He almost single-handedly killed the entertainment industry with his crusade against VCRs (a technology that actually saved the industry). I cannot figure out why the industry even pays him lip service because he is a moron. Oh, he doesn't mind technology so long as it has all the controls in place he wants and it is illegal to change those controls.

Breaking stuff

[Zorilla]

"When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies,"

That nice, except Cognac doesn't make sunglasses for toddlers. Many DVDs, on the other hand, are aimed towards children despite the discs being quite fragile.

If your kid's big wheel breaks after only minutes of riding it, I'm sure Fisher Price has a replacement plan for it.

Re:Breaking stuff

[Zorilla]

I guess I should also add, before everybody replies, that I'm aware that Disney has a fairly generous replacement plan for their DVDs. Glad to see Disney, of all large, bullying corporations, leading the way for this.

The full quote

[fegu]

If you RTFA he says: When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies. Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever. The last sentence is key here. If he really means this, then a backup copy is quite natural as the DVD is merely an imperfect way (easy to scratch) to hold what is actually bought, the digital content which is meant to last forever.

Re:The full quote

[Medievalist]

A digital thing lasts forever.

Ha. Tell that to my Dell PowerVault 220S!

"...in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying."
--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (James Murphy translation, page 134)

1000 algorithms

[tagevm]

>I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers
>can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it.

Yes, 1000 algorithms is the way to go..? ...how about just using one that works..

Re:1000 algorithms

[marsu_k]

Yes, 1000 algorithms is the way to go..? ...how about just using one that works..

ROT13?

Great Grammar There.

[CBNobi]

Did Slashdot really receive only one submission for this story? It's really a horrible selection to put on the front page, given its horrible grammar.

Engadget has an interview with Jack Valenti, the outgoing president of the MPAA and the object of hatred for many hacker after he took he on DVD Jon, who is retiring tomorrow after more than three decades on the job.

He took he? On DVD Jon, who is retiring tomorrow?

when he says stuff like

Yeah, shame on Engadget, and stuff.

but it is at least slightly encouraging to hear that he owns a TiVo.

This is similar to the MS Security Manager running Firefox news bit. Because Jack Valenti owns and enjoys a TiVo, means he condones all aspects of the technology? No, it's more likely Jack Valenti likes to use a TiVo as a new-fangled VCR.

Let's see what Google turned up:

"The MPAA, NFL and other sports leagues attempted to convince the agency that the devices pose a threat to copyrighted works and could be used to broadcast games where they are blacked out. FCC commissioners disagreed, finding that the fears were unfounded. MPAA chief Jack Valenti, who will step down next month, personally lobbied all five commissioners, FCC sources said."

Jack Valenti: Certified Dumbass

[benjamindees]

Here's the (much more amusing) full quote (emphasis mine):

What would you say to a mom who wants to make a backup of her kids? DVD movies?

When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn?t give you two backup copies. Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever.

It cuts both ways...

[SlashDread]

-If- I bought a license to the music, it is not "destroyed" by scratching the disk. -If- I bought the media, I can do with its fysical properties what I like. Like copying.

Make up your mind Jack.

"/Dread"

Re:It cuts both ways...

[Dun Malg]

I'm talking about why people believe to some degree that the industry directly owes them another copy when the original(s) is destroyed by mishap or wear.

Nobody thinks they are owed a FREE copy. It's a matter of what, exactly, the $15 they paid originally gets them. Is it $1 for the media and $14 for the license that allows you one copy? If so, then if you damage your copy, does not that $14 license entitle you to a replacement media for $1? Or if it's $14 for the media and $1 for the license, can I burn myself five extra copies and send them $1 for each as license payment? They try to position it as being, at the same time, both and neither. They claim the $15 is just for the license when you try to make copies, but then they later claim the $15 is for the media when you want a replacement for a scratched disc. They can't logically have it both ways, but they've successfully lobbied to get the law to say they can have their cake and eat it too.

Security through obscurity

[barcodez]

From the article:

I have said, technology is what causes the problem, and technology will be the salvation of the problem. I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it. In time, we'll be able to do this, because I have great faith in the technological genius that's out there.

Do they really believe that security though obscurity is going to help them. For every "genius" they employ to obfusticate their format their will be 100 geniuses out there ready to write software to get round it.

The fact that the media is in the physically possession of the users means that given enough time all security measures can be defeated.

Back ups=illegal?

[portnux]

When you buy a DVD you are buying the media AND the right to watch it. When the DVD is damaged, you still have the right to watch, although now it's unwatchable. Your money bought you both a tangible and an intangible product. You make a backup you are only protecting your right to the intangible product that you paid for. If jack valenti or anyone else wants to deprive you of that right they are stealing from you. I don't know when the systems of the world shifted to the point where consumers stealing from companies are criminal but companies stealing from consumers is just plain good business, but I for one don't like it. But who knows, maybe my opinion would change if I was on the other end of all this stealing. :/

Jack Valenti is a liar!

[nattt]

LIE: "Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever."

No it doesn't. CDs rust because of manufacturing defects. DVDs scratch so easily you'd think they were designed to need replacing if the kids get hold of them! Jack's comment is like saying that insurance is unnecessary because houses don't burn down. Software manufacturers will replaced damaged media for a nominal fee. The DVD manufacturers could make the "you don't need a backup" line a reality if they offered $1 replacements for damaged DVDs and $0.50 replacements for CDs that get damaged, and indeed, there should be a legal mandate for them to do so upon production of a scratched original. They could handle it through the record stores - bring in your old CD or DVD, hand over your dollar, and get a bright new shining one. That would make consumers happy about buying such fragile media. At that point, however, they would not be able to say - sorry, run out of copies. They would have to make more copies rapidly if more people come back. This should also last as long as the copyright lasts upon the programme material + 50, just in case. Ofcourse, if you don't copyright it and give it to the public domain, you don't have to supply backups - now that's fair.

LIE "But I visited the labs at Caltech, and they're running an experiment called FAST where they can bring down a DVD-quality movie in 5 seconds. " what's that - about 1GB per second?? Anyone know a hard drive that fast and affordable for my edit suite??? Sure cache it in RAM first..... Seriously Jack...

LIE "There is no fair use to take something that doesn't belong to you. That's not fair use..... Now, fair use is not in the law." It's fair that we get screwed by the MPAA, but not fair when every TV advert for every movie I've ever seen says "own it on DVD" - for emphasis "OWN IT". If I own it, whatever I do with it is fair. If I own it I don't have a right to a free or very cheap replacement of the media. I know I don't own software as it's licenced. But I must own the DVD as you told me - it can't be licenced. Now which way do you want it Jack. If I own it, I'll do whatever the hell I like with it.

LIE "So there are no restrictions that Hollywood wants to place on what people can do with media on their computers?

Well, I can't tell you that. We have to see what the technology can provide." So what you're really saying Jack is that you want Linux and open source OSs illegal, everyone to buy Microsoft and have computers so restricted that they're practically games and entertainment consoles. Jack - you're such a hypocrite.

Re:Jack Valenti is a liar!

[BlueSloop]

FAST is true. Though you're right in so far as today's average PC can't quite handle that.

From a press release: The protocol is called FAST, standing for Fast Active queue management Scalable Transmission Control Protocol (TCP). The researchers have achieved a speed of 8,609 megabits per second (Mbps) by using 10 simultaneous flows of data over routed paths, the largest aggregate throughput ever accomplished in such a configuration. More importantly, the FAST protocol sustained this speed using standard packet size, stably over an extended period on shared networks in the presence of background traffic, making it adaptable for deployment on the world's high-speed production networks.

Re:Jack Valenti is a liar!

[Tim C]

I don't think I've ever seen a "rusted" CD...

I have a number of CD-Rs from a few years ago that are discoloured in the extreme; a few of them I ditched, as they were indeed unusable.

I don't suppose it's rust, but it's certainly a degradation of the materials involved. I don't recall seeing such degradation on any comercially-produced, pressed CDs, though.

Re:Jack Valenti is a liar!

[gfxguy]

Surely you can see the difficulties associated with such a system. First of all, you want the media companies to give you replacements on a $20 DVD or a $15 CD until the end of time? Really now. What should they do if the particular DVD you want replaced is rare and out-of-print?

But that's the point, isn't it? If we could make our own, it would be a problem. Adding draconian copyright law into the equation was an interesting touch... if they claim to hold the copyright then they should have copies available for sale. As soon as they decide to stop manufacturing, they should forfit the copyright.

That may sound draconian on my part, but in this age of on-demand CDs, surely they can make me a new copy of "Song of the South"** without requiring a new production run...

The problem with my suggestion is they can suddenly declare "OK, it's now in the public domain", but everyone's copy is copy-restricted.

Here's an idea. YOU could make the backups (which you CAN do) yourself.

I can? Legally? How? Tell me what software I can buy that will allow me to create a playable duplicate? Oh, wait... selling a product that bypasses copyright protection is illegal...

So you're saying, because I'm reading slashdot, I'm probably nerdy enough to be able to do it myself... that may be true, but it's not true in general. It doesn't apply when my Dad calls asking if it's possible, or my sister calls and asks if it's possible...

** Yes, I mention "Song of the South" for a reason.

Re:Jack Valenti is a liar!

[CrimsonAvenger]

"There is no fair use to take something that doesn't belong to you. That's not fair use..... Now, fair use is not in the law."

Actually, Fair Use IS in the law. Title 17, Section 107:

Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights:
Fair use
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors

One Reason

[JNighthawk]

The only reason a 'digital thing' lasts forever is because it is, by nature, an idea. It is data, it is not any material. The idea of the movie stays forever, the data of the movie does not change, but, of course, the medium it is placed on can easily be destroyed.

Valenti - You are an awesome figurehead to hate. Don't ever get a clue, and fix all the problems in the industry, because then I might have some moral qualms about downloading movies.

Missing the point on the cognac there

[thrill12]

I guess he is clearly missing the point with that cognac glasses example:
it's not the glas that matter but the contents of the glass!
I buy a glas of cognac because I want cognac, I get the glas with the cognac - not the other way round.
Now my glass breaks - this can happen. No big deal however, because I poured a bit of cognac into another glas beforehand so I can still taste it's fine taste.

(replace "glass" with CD/DVD and "cognac" with movie/music in case you didn't get it)
I guess those people really don't want to see the reality...

Those all powerful Cognac glasses...

[Gelfman]

...have inspired me to share other excerpts from Valenti's Bumper Christmas Compendium of Crap Analogies...

• Well, you see, it's like a duck sitting in the forest. If you feed it some kibble and two weeks later it vomits all over a tree, you don't expect to be able to send the cleaning bill to Cher, now do you?
• Take my Auntie Scarface as an example - she likes to eat her CDs proclaiming them to be an excellent alternative to coconut macaroons. Now who'd want to back up a macaroon (must...suppress...foul...image)?
• How many times? Digital data can only be handled by an expert wearing a grade 3 frock and wielding a polo mallet and you'd look pretty silly in those so you shouldn't do it.

Boston stangler

[bathmann]

Jack, you'll forever be in our hearts for your priceless quotes.

"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."

Jack Valenti, 1982 click me

Reverse Ageism

[mikaere]

Having read TFA, it's quite clear to me that the industry is dominated by crusty old men (COM). Whilst they are reasonably happy to tolerate Baby Boomers (let's face it, BBs have created lots of wealth for COMs), they are not particularly happy about the surly behaviour of Generations X & Y. And why is that ? Many of us have an inherent distrust of their abuse of intellectual property. There is exactly ONE solution to the "problem" of copyright circumvention. Namely, make *everything digital* so utterly accessible (i.e cheap & easy to download) so that it's just not worth the effort to pirate it. Most digital "content" falls into the category of luxury (i.e it's nices to have rather then essential). Standard economic theory stresses that luxuries have a very elastic demand curve. i.e. you lower the price and sales volumes increase massively. Result: low price (i.e. $1/CD or $2.50/DVD) = huge sales and bugger all piracy.

Technological Genius'

[phantasma6]

because I have great faith in the technological genius that's out there

Yes, but which side are these technological genius' fighting for?

I have said, technology is what causes the problem, and technology will be the salvation of the problem. I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it. In time, we'll be able to do this, because I have great faith in the technological genius that's out there.

Is it just me, or does this sound really stupid? How are normal dvd players going to be able to play these non-standard dvd's? And besides, if you can play it, it is possible to record.

Such classic ignorance

[davek]

Ah, this is classic! An old man's uninformed belief that somehow we can protect people from thinking!

"I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it."

Re-he-he-heally. Don't you realize that once ONE person breaks it (out of, oh, maybe, 3 billion hackers worldwide), then you've got the raw data, which you can copy directly to whatever and whomever you want. This is some sort of religious belief in encryption and obfuscation that is not shared by anyone who knows anything about scientific computing. CSS was broken, AES, DES, RCA, VHS, MP3, GTFO, and WTF have all been broken. And guess what? The future ones will be too!

Find a new path.

-Dave

Re:Such classic ignorance

[IamTheRealMike]

Actually there are some DRM schemes that have not been broken, typically because they are implemented in well protected hardware which very few people have the resources/money/skill to break.

P4 satellite encryption is one such scheme, used by I think DirecTV in the states these days (different to the previous system they used where the smart cards were vulnerable to glitching).

Likewise the system used by Sky in the UK has not yet been cracked to my knowledge.

Game console security is likewise rather good, piracy for console games is typically much lower than it is for PCs.

Basically when you control the hardware it's a lot easier to control piracy, hence the focus on "trusted" PCs.

like hearing a report from the kid who didn't stud

[neoThoth]

It's like he was just making the answers up as he went along. Most of the inaccuracies were already pointed out so I won't bring those back up.
The licensing issue (digital things last forever) really shocked me. Tech stuff sure, he's old and never had a clue. I'm not shocked he just said "use 1000 algorithims" and then followed up with "only the dedicated hackers will make copies". I'm sure those dedicated hackers won't bother making anyone else copies.
but really the "cognac glass" analogy was something he *should* be able to spell out for us and have it stay consistent with the party line. I don't license cognac glasses! Here's a better analogy jerk weed.
If a lease a car I am essentially licensing it and have to stay within a lot of restrictions. If I BUY the car I can do whatever the hell I like. OK cars may be a little too modern for Jack. I think he might understand a horse analogy but it's 7am and I really need sleep.

Sure it's stealing.

[TheLoneCabbage]

By the letter of the law, my using Bittorrent to download the latest Adam Sandler flick is stealing.

But I don't have equal representation in DC either. Democratic law is the result of agreed upon rules that the entire society has determined to be equitable. Bribeing legistators & judges is hardly inside the bounds of law, and it is exactly how this man creates the laws that make my action illegal. (not talking about morrality)

"10 congac glasses"

The glass maker doesn't tell me what brand of congac I can use in the glasses either. Nor do they stipulate what in country I may drink from those glasses.

If I think that congac glasses are too fragile, I can go out and by a mettal cup (gold electro plated PLEASE!!). I am not forced to drink my congac in one style of cup, that I find inferiour, and fragile.

The only reason these 'illegal softwares' exist is because consumers have demanded it, and his industry has failed to exploit that market. Excuse me while I cry a river of tears. Linux users demanded the ability to view DVDs, they ignored then sued (btw, how much money did they loose by linux users 'illegaly' renting and viewing DVDs on DCSS software?) Internationals demanded to be able to view their DVDs in America or Europe. (only legal DVDs are region encoded) Movie collectors asked that they be able to transport the format of a movie from one media to the next, and not be forced to repurchase their entire collection every 10 years. (or be forced to maintain old media players) Movie fans asked that they NOT be gouged at the theater. Music fans wondered why CD's cost so much, when most of the music on them they don't want.

The technology to solve all of these problems have been around for years. and iTunes long since demonstrated that content deliver online works, as long as you don't price gouge. But that would force the media industry to become competitive, and *shock* *horror* change with the market! Why they would find it so much harder to gauge customers.

Why else would I prefer a grainy lo-res DVD/Cam rip to a DVD with all the features? 'cause I won't spend $30 on a freeking movie.

Re:Sure it's stealing.

[kahei]

By the letter of the law, my using Bittorrent to download the latest Adam Sandler flick is stealing.

NO. IT IS COPYRIGHT VIOLATION.

EVERY time a story like this comes along a THOUSAND brave volunteers leap up and point out the difference between intellectual and physical property laws, and STILL there remains this hard core that simply cannot Get It.

If you're going to talk about the 'letter of the law', shouldn't you read at least a brief overview of said law first?

Yet, hope is eternal and so on this day I do my part in the eternal struggle, by saying again in a loud, clear voice:

It is not STEALING but COPYRIGHT VIOLATION. Not the THEFT of MATERIAL PROPERTY but the UNLICENSED DUPLICATION of INFORMATION.

Let me ask everyone here...

[ScottGant]

First, this is NOT meant as a flame at all. I would just like to know. Who here actually backs up their DVD's or CD's?

I ask this because I do not back up my media. Nor does my family. Nor does anyone in my wife's family. Nor does anyone I work with or even know. NO one I've met in "the real world" has backed up a DVD or CD. Ever! Sure, back when albums and tapes were the big thing I would make a tape of an album...but to listen to in my car really. But then again, they weren't really back-ups as the sound on analog tape was horrible compared to an album.

So I ask you, are there really people out there backing up all their media like this? By the way, I have kids, my wife's family also has many kids. So far, we haven't had anyone get a scratched DVD...not saying that we won't, but I guess we show the kids how to handle DVD's...not that it takes a genius to grasp the concept.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[AKnightCowboy]

Who here actually backs up their DVD's or CD's?

I do. When I used to buy CDs I would make a copy of it and keep the original at home. The copy went into a binder in my car. If my car was broken into then all I lose is the copies... and heaven forbid my house should burn down then I can still make copies from the ones in my car and have perfect copies of the originals. I bought a license to listen to the songs, not the physical media. If you believe I bought the physical media then I STILL have the right to make a backup copy of it in case it gets broken. This is codified in law, not just my crazy commie brain.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Sparr0]

i dont back up, per se, all my media. but very often i will produce a 'compilation' disc of a multi-disc set that allows me to play without swapping discs. i put all 6 baldurs gate 2 cds on one dvd, but playing from it requires a "no cd" crack. and any media that has become badly damaged over time (i have games on cdrom that are over 8 years old that i still play) gets a definite backup, however its usually the backup that goes on the shelf in that case

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[pigeon]

I do. I have a large cd collection, and when I still had a discman and took de c'ds with me, many of them got scratched. I have even bought several cd's serveal times because they where damaged. So now I just backup my CD's. Same with DVD's, some dvd's I play again and again, I like playing a dvd in the background while doing ome work. And me being a little sloppy, things got damaged. So some of my most often played dvd's I backed up.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Zorilla]

While I wouldn't go out of my way to back up DVDs for home use, I would definitely back them up if I wanted to travel with them, leaving the valuable originals at home in case something happens to my bags. Also, being in the military, DVDs and desert winds don't mix...obviously. (Also learned Playstation 2 DVD trays break very easily in the desert. About 2/3 of the units people brought out broke.)

My point is that when you're deployed for 4-12 months, or even a couple years (I'm Air Force, thank goodness), you gotta have some movies to watch to kill time while on a 12 hour shift, but I'm not going to wreck original DVDs doing it.

I babied the CDs I brought with me to the desert. We weren't exactly roughing it, since we had tents with A/C. Even then the CDs came back a little scratched. The DVDs people brought got destroyed, mainly because they were being borrowed from each other.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[cozziewozzie]

I have most of my (legally purchased) CDs ripped into high quality MP3s for listening on my laptop. It's a lot more convenient than changing CDs all the time. It is also safe in the case my CDs get damaged, which has happened in the past.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[werwerf]

I do.

I have backup copies of my CDs to carry on the car. That way, I do not put in danger originals buy scratching them on the car.

I have even downloaded albums that I had on CDs that were too scrached to be used.
So I think we, the customers, should be entitled to make backup copies of digital content, or at least, get back what we payed for (the content, not the media).

I fact, one of my colleagues has asked me for my original copy of a PS2 game that he bought for his kid (so damaged as not being usable)...

---
there was a SIG here.
it is gone now.
(Quiz: Where does my SIG comes from?)

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Zorilla]

I bet the comfort level has changed drastically, depending on your job, since about 1997. We, of course, had plenty of options for niceties, since this was an Air Force deployment from last year. Actually, we were the ones bringing internet and phone service to the site, which was plenty for maintaining sanity out there.

I packed disposable razors, but had about 12 NiMH batteries and a charger for things like my portable MP3 CD-RW player :)

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Happened to a friend of mine last week. She had her entire CD collection (yes, REAL store-bought CDs) in her car and it got broken into. Both the car (and of course, the CDs in the car) were stolen.

Now regardless of the fact that she probably shouldn't have left the CDs in the car, if she had made duplicates and used those in the car, she'd still have all her genuine CDs. I always have CDRs of my music in my car, because at $20-40/CD (imports), I would be royally choked if they got ripped-off.

But of course, the RIAA doesn't like that whole "backup" idea, after all the thief would then have a copy of the music as well as the legal owner, and that's just not right!

So they need to decide - if you're actually "licensing" the music, then you get the right to get replacement media AT COST as part of the license. If you're buying the media, then they can kiss their product goodbye after you've bought it.

Now, all that said, I could give a damn WHAT the RIAA or MPAA think because when I buy a CD or DVD or computer software, it's mine dammit, and I'm going to do whatever the hell I want to with it - and nothing they say or do will ever change that.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[IamTheRealMike]

Lots of people have replied saying "I do! I do!". In terms of ripping CDs to my computer to make playing them more convenient, I do as well, but this wasn't ScottGants point (I suspect).

I have seen friends of mine bring in entire stacks of recordable CDs containing ripped movies they downloaded from the net. By "stack" I don't mean 3 or 4 but more like 100. They chat about it and trade them openly - there is no guilt there, while they know it's illegal they just don't care. It's easy to be amoral when everybody else is.

I don't download movies and music (I used to download music, back in the Napster days, but reformed), instead I just rent DVDs and listen to net radio all the time. I hardly ever see films I like so much I'd want to watch them over and over. Needless to say, I'm the odd one out.

So we have this conundrum - piracy is a huge problem, especially so because the vast majority of people doing it just couldn't care less that it's illegal. Yet, people do make backups, rip CDs (maybe even movies) to their computer for portability and so on.

How do you balance these two? That is the problem.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[_Sprocket_]

Happened to a friend of mine last week. She had her entire CD collection (yes, REAL store-bought CDs) in her car and it got broken into. Both the car (and of course, the CDs in the car) were stolen.

Something simular happened to a friend of mine several years ago. His truck was parked in his driveway one night and some punk smashed in the window, stole his stereo, and all his CDs. Those CDs were all copies. He always burned his CDs for his car since he didn't trust what the Texas heat would do to the origionals.

But of course, the RIAA doesn't like that whole "backup" idea, after all the thief would then have a copy of the music as well as the legal owner, and that's just not right!

The RIAA's (and Valenti's) idea of what is right is even more twisted than that. They have stated that making a copy of a CD for one's car is wrong. In their eyes, each and every stereo should have a seperate purchased copy.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Phil Wherry]

The RIAA's (and Valenti's) idea of what is right is even more twisted than that. They have stated that making a copy of a CD for one's car is wrong. In their eyes, each and every stereo should have a seperate purchased copy.

Just one copy per stereo? RIAA is leaving money on the table by forgetting that most car audio systems have more than two speakers and can carry more than one passenger!

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[_Sprocket_]

Good point. Say - do you think "stereo" implies a license to use two ears? Or do you suppose there should be a license for each ear or "audio receptor"?

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[Nostafa]

The RIAA's (and Valenti's) idea of what is right is even more twisted than that. They have stated that making a copy of a CD for one's car is wrong. In their eyes, each and every stereo should have a seperate purchased copy.

There views have always been convuluted. They tried originally to ban cassette tape recorders and (well before my time) the music industry (not sure if they were the RIAA then) tried to ban player pianos because they put artists out of work.

Re:Let me ask everyone here...

[hetairoi]

piracy is a huge problem

no, healthcare is a huge problem, starvation is a huge problem, genocide is a huge problem, education is a huge problem, violence against women is a huge problem, violence in the middle east is a huge problem ...

piracy is, for the most part, the concern of a super rich few. There are better things to be concerned about than wether or not Jack Valenti will be able to afford another house because some college student downloaded a movie.

I don't pirate movies or songs either and I don't condone those actions, but Jack is just a rich guy trying to get richer by manipulating laws, plain and simple. If you drop the price to a reasonable level, the black market will disappear.

Re:Broken glasses

[LiquidCoooled]

You already can produce a cheap clone of anything!

You could keep your china safely packaged away, and put your nice copies up on the shelf.

I don't think they would be usable in this version (prototypes are like stiff rubber from what I understand), but give it a few more years.

http://www.zcorp.com/products/printersdetail.asp?I D=2

VCRs

[zoeblade]

From the interview:

I have a TiVo set. I truly enjoy it.

Seems to have changed eir tune since the 1982 Betamax testimony:

You are sitting in your home in your easy chair and here comes the commercial and it is right in the middle of a Clint Eastwood film and you don't want to be interrupted. So, what do you do? You pop this beta scan and a 1-minute commercial disappears in 2 seconds... If you are watching a Clint Eastwood film it is the most cheerful thing you can do. However, if you are an advertiser who has paid $280,000 a minute to advertise, he feels a very large pain in his stomach as well as in his checkbook because it destroys the reason for free television, the erasure, the blotting out, the fast forwarding, the visual searching, the variable beta scans. The technology is there and I am one who has a belief that before the next few years the Japanese will have built into their machines an automatic situation that kills the commercial... I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone.

Re:VCRs

[MarcQuadra]

The funny thing is that cable TV was originally commercial-free, you PAID to not watch advertisements. I remember those days faintly, one of my neighbors had cable and it was quite a hoot at cookouts and block parties.

Somehow cable became so common and people became so passive that cable now has just as much advertising as broadcast, and the quality of the ads and programming is generally lower on cable.

So now we pay the content providers to watch the content, and the advertisers pay them to slip us ads. We even get advertised to when paying the ultimate in high-prices at the theaters. I think that in a decade's time you'll see movies with one or two commercial-filled 'intermissions' under the pretense of letting elderly folks use the potty. Just watch.

Re:VCRs

[zoeblade]

I think that in a decade's time you'll see movies with one or two commercial-filled 'intermissions' under the pretense of letting elderly folks use the potty. Just watch.

Not to mention product placement. I really enjoyed watching I, Robot at the cinema, except before it started, an advert told me to "hate piracy" (no kidding), and right at the beginning, the protagonist got some "vintage 2004 sneakers, a thing of beauty".

Films are set in an alternate universe where everyone drinks Pepsi and uses Apple Macs!

I hope not

[Pan T. Hose]

DVD Jon is retiring?

I hope not. I seriously admire this guy.
I remember a recent discussion on Slashdot:

"Does anyone know Jon's doctor?
"I want to know if he really does have testicles made of brass."
"Not only are they made of brass, but he's got five of them."
"I want to meet Jon's tailor. I hear he makes pants that fit like a glove."

A true hero and inspiration for every Slashdotter.

Pathetic Interview

[Ronald Dumsfeld]

Was it just me, or did anyone else find the "interview" pathetic?

Where's the followup questions? Jack gives us his crackpot analogy of backup being the same as physical replacement and the interviewer doesn't query him on the differences.

This is a fawning and pathetic excuse of an interview that's only been done because the interviewer promised to play nice in exchange for the exposure his site would get interviewing Jack Valenti.

Re:Pathetic Interview

[julesh]

Was it just me, or did anyone else find the "interview" pathetic?

Where's the followup questions?

Web publishers seem to have grown into the belief lately that an acceptable way of conducting an interview is to e-mail a list of questions to the subject, and then print his responses.

It works fine in many cases (see some of the more successful slashdot interviews, for example), but often just winds up with unsatisfactory answers that don't help anyone (e.g. the slashdot interview of Shatner last year(?)). In a live interview situation, the interviewer would respond to the inadequacy of the answer. This doesn't happen in an e-mail interview.

What about crack pipes?

[ljavelin]

When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies,"

Ouch, it sounds like he doesn't know the difference between intellectual property and physical property.

By extension: if I'm an artist and I sell a song to him, I guess I only sell that physical media with the song, and not the song itself.

Hmmm, or is he saying that intellectual property can only be owned by a corporation and not an individual? Great! Therefore, if I buy a Cognac glass, I can make a hundred exact (or modified) copies. Isn't that OK?

But then again, who runs down to the department store to by 10 Cognac glasses? Who is this guy?

No kids I presume?

[spectrokid]

I buy VERY EXPENSIVE CD's with music for my kids. They take them out of the CD player, put them on the floor, walk on them and the next time they play them it's experimental rap music, not Disney songs. No backup = dead within a week.

Re:Jack Valenti: Certified Dumbass

[zoeblade]

A digital thing lasts forever.

Jack Valenti's almost right, yet missing the point entirely. A digital thing will last forever if it can leave the shackles of whatever physical medium it's stored on. If you have two copies, and only one of them is likely to get destroyed at any given time (say, you've copied a CD to a friend with the explicit orders that ey can't listen to it because that would be illegal, just to have an off-site backup), then you'll always have a perfect copy.

But being able to copy and manage the data better is the only advantage digital media have over their analogue counterparts. If you take away the rights to copy them, there is no point in using digital media in the first place.

Fair Use IS in the law.

[abiggerhammer]

Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107. It's in the US Copyright Code.

"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

Reference is also made to "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" -- to which "remix[ing] a few seconds of a Hollywood movie into a home movie project" certainly applies, and argument could be made that that remixing constitutes criticism, comment, or even teaching (video editing is a skill, too).

Between Valenti making claims like these, and the American Library Association going head-to-head with the Business Software Alliance to combat their misinformation about copyright, I have to wonder whether these guys realise the long-term damage they're doing to their reputations, since eventually, the truth will out.

Anyway, the law exists, just in case anyone was wondering. Kthxbye.

You have been brainwashed

[Pan T. Hose]

When you buy a DVD you are buying the media AND the right to watch it. [emphasis added]

You have been apparently indoctrinated with a great success, but the fact is that you don't need any special "right to watch" a movie, like you don't need any "right to read" a book, at least not yet. The only thing that the copyright law regulates is the right to publish and distribute, not any magical "right to see" which would somehow make illegal the very act of merely looking at publicly available things, which would be completely ridiculous. Please do not spread the FUD. The scums like Jack Valenti want us to think that way, but it does's make it true. Please try to keep that in mind. This is actually extremely important because if all of people think like yourself, then no one will protest when corporations finally put it into law, because everyone will think it has always been that way, which is simply not true. I wouldn't have even answered to this post but it was moderated as Score:5, Insightful so apparently there are more misinformed people here.

TiVo - for them, not for you

[ari_j]

It's not encouraging at all that he has and enjoys a TiVo. Most of the strongest anti-gun pundits have guns of their own, and many have concealed-weapon permits. You're failing to grasp the underlying concept: they want to have all the rights, and leave you with none. The same thing applies here. You can't oppress people if they're in the same caste as you.

Re:TiVo - for them, not for you

[J. T. MacLeod]

Yep, once guns are criminalized, the criminals with guns will certainly be safe from those trigger-happy, law-abiding citizens!

A quote...

[Decameron81]

When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies. Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever.

A digital thing lasts forever???

Maybe after 10 cognac glasses...

MPAA and the Business

[Kavli]

>"When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and
>two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesnt give you two backup
>copies,"

It's an interresting observation that "after more than three decades on the
job" he hasn't got a clue about what the businesses he was representing
is actually selling! --He, obviously thinks the record/movie industry is selling
silver discs! --That's not what they're selling. They're selling the _rights_
to watch/listen to a given artistical performance.

The comparison with cognac glasses is as absurd as the industry he was
representing.

- K

On the Cognac glass thing...

[59Bassman]

If I were to buy 10 Cognac glasses and 2 broke, look at the options I have:

1) I can take one of the remaining glasses to a friend who is a hobbyist glass blower and see if he can make one for me free of charge (assuming the glass design is trademarked)
2) I can get my own Cognac glass blowing setup and make an myself a new matching glass once I've aquired the skills and materials.
3) After making one or two for myself, I can crank out a whole bunch for my friends free of charge as Christmas presents, anniversary gifts, or wedding presents.
4) I can take detailed measurements of the glasses, bring them to a glass factory, and have them turn out duplicates for me (legal or not, this happens ALL OF THE TIME in industry) so that I can avoid the high costs of buying from the original manufacturer.
5) I can throw a Cognac party for as many people I want, and allow those folks to view and use my legally purchased Cognac glasses without fear of reprocussion.

Now, which of these options are available to me to do legally with CDs or DVDs?

I do - and it saved my media in a car crash

[mccalli]

I back up onto cheap CD-R for use in the car, and straight to hard disk for use at home. Very rarely touch the original CD.

About a year and three quarters' ago, I was involved in an accident in which my car was written off. The CDs were scratched to hell, and a couple had actually snapped in half. No problem though - all handled nicely by the fact that not a single one was an original. Just reburned new copies and stuck them in our other car.

Well, no problem as far as CDs are concerned anyway. Miss the car though - a nice Jaguar XJR.

By the way, I have kids, my wife's family also has many kids. So far, we haven't had anyone get a scratched DVD...not saying that we won't, but I guess we show the kids how to handle DVD's...not that it takes a genius to grasp the concept.

How old? It certainly takes a genuis ten-month old to grasp the concept. My two and a half-year old mostly remembers now, but still can't actually stretch her hand wide enough to hold a DVD without putting fingermarks all over the back of it. We've had scratches too.

Cheers,
Ian

what about License

[managementboy]

Isn`t buying a CD the same as buying a license. I sure understand that there is a medium I also bought, but does breaking the medium mean I have lost my right to the license?

Depends on the child I suppose...

[Chordonblue]

My son is functionally autistic. Sometimes he gets a *little* excited about playing his games and forgets. I wish I could back up his Gamecube games because they somewhat fragile and easily scratched.

We were sticking with the SNES (cartridges are harder to damage), but even at 5 years old he could tell the difference between Super Mario World and Sunshine. (He beat Sunshine last week!) :)

He doesn't believe tech can beat the pirates.

[zerofoo]

I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it.

Here's the problem with that opinion - it only takes ONE hacker to beat the "algorithms". How long do you really think it will take 10,000 hackers all over the world to beat these "algorithms"?

Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's really hard to put it back in.

The "zero tolerance" stance on piracy will never work. Make it difficult for large scale pirates (guys mass producing pirated DVDs all over Asia) by involving local law enforcement. Suing Joe Consumer for copying the latest Soprano's DVD is bad for business and just plain stupid.

-ted

Difference between DVDs and cognac glasses

[Colonel Cholling]

If I buy a set of cognac glasses and then move to Belgium, I don't have to buy a special set of Belgian cognac glasses.

When I buy a set of cognac glasses, they'll work with any brand of cognac, even cognac my friends and I made as part of a giant collaborative project.

If I buy cognac glasses and decide to drink milk out of them, the manufacturer won't accuse me of violating the licensing agreement.

If I build exact replicas of the cognac glasses using my own materials, and then give these replicas away, I won't get sued by the Glassblowing Industry Association of America.

If I sell the cognac glasses at a second-hand store, the aforementioned GIAA won't accuse me of stealing profits away from the original cognac-glass-makers, or claim that I probably made an illegal copy of them before I sold them.

I don't have to pay higher prices on glassblowing supplies on the assumption that I'll probably use them to make illegal copies of cognac glasses.

And the #1 difference between DVDs and cognac glasses:

The cognac glass actually contains something I might enjoy.

Re:Difference between DVDs and cognac glasses

[Colonel Cholling]

My point was that if there were disputes over the intellectual property of the glassware, it would probably be the actual people who made the stuff who would sue me, and not some self-appointed industry lobbying group who claims to represent the poor struggling glassblowers while in reality they just represent the glassware labels who skim off all the money and pay their dupes "glassware advances" which they have to pay back by going on extensive glassblowing tours and selling glassware T-shirts.

MPAA, RIAA are wrong!

[jagermeister101]

Technology has made music or film exchange easier than ever but in essence it is exactly the same as creating a tape and giving it to a friend. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act states that it is illegal to download mp3's for financial or other "gains". Then they go on to define that just having an mp3 of a song is a "gain" and therefore illegal. This is BS! I didn't see anybody complain back in the day when somebody gave you a tape. Record companies then try to make p2p users feel guilty saying that they are hurting artists. The ones that suffer the most from this are the companies themselves. Artists only receive a very small amount from each album sold, their main income is when they sign a deal with the company and they get a contract and get payed. But I do see a solution to this whole thing: lower album and movie prices. Basic economic theory clearly states that lowering the price of a good that has few substitutes (ie: any given artist's album) will increase the quantity demanded of that good and will increase total revenue for the firm. Just imagine cd's priced at 5-7 USD instead of your usual 15-20, movie tickets priced at 1-2. I would buy a lot more music and watch more films. One can't fight progress and technology. If the MPAA and RIAA keep trying to fight that battle they are sure gonna lose in the long run.

Another Quotable from Valenti

[spiffturk]

From the page the parent linked to:

[Valenti]:The average number of cassettes per household -- this is fascinating -- Mrs. Schroeder, was 27.7, 28 cassettes. Now, if you are just time shifting, all you are doing is you are away from home and you are taping something and you come back and you watch the commercial, then you time shift, you don't need 28 cassettes. You need one cassette or at the most two. Why do you have 28? Why? Because of the next line. Seventy-five percent have a permanent collection. My own home, we do it in our on home. I know about that. Anybody that has a VCR, talk to them, and I ask you to use your own commonsense, Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Schroeder, Mr. Railsback, just think of you as human beings. If you had the power to sit on a playback of a recording and you could wipe out the commercials or not wipe out the commercials, what would you do? You would do exactly what you said, sir. That is terrific. Of course. We all do it.

But when you do it, you strip away the reason for free television. Now, let me --

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Jack, let me ask you. Do you consider yourself and your family infringers when you engage in that practice?

Mr. VALENTI. I consider myself and my family believing what the plaintiffs in this lawsuit said and they said publicly, they have said it to the press, they have said it to the lawyers, they have said it to the courts. They do not intend to file any actions against homeowners now or in the future. I mean, that is obvious and they have said that publicly, Mr. Chairman, so I believe them. As far as I am concerned, I am going to continue taping because the plaintiffs have said they aren't going to do anything to me. I am not committing any crime. They know that.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. That wasn't my question.

Mr. VALENTI. Do I consider myself an infringer?

Mr. KASTENMEIER. When you engage in such practice.

Mr. VALENTI. Yes, sir, I do. I am taking somebody else's copyrighted material without their consent and I know damn well I am infringing. But as far as court action or anything else, I am safe. First, it is not a criminal act. Again, the opposition would tell you video, police, and criminals. They show an astonishing lack of the copyright law. They know good and well that that is not a criminal infringement unless you do it for profit. But on the other hand the plaintiffs have said they are moving against anybody in the homes. There is no problem, but 1 know and everybody else knows they are infringing.

Beautiful.

--
Will

Too late

[pommiekiwifruit]

Since IIRC the EU courts at least have concluded that loading something into RAM for the purposes of displaying it or running it comprises an act of copying.

It's all about the commas.

[muskr]

For many of you, it might read easier this way:

char Jack_Valenti; /* the outgoing president of the MPAA and the object of hatred for many hacker after he took he on DVD Jon */
Engadget has an interview with Jack_Valenti, who is retiring tomorrow after more than three decades on the job.

He really is a character too.
(mod -5 Bad Puns)

Who asked to be given backup copies ?

[dewdrops]

No one ever asked movie companies to give out free backup copies. What we want is to not get sued or put in jail if we copy a DVD, or rip it to an mp4 on our laptop to take on vacation, or do any number of things with the DVD we just bought.

Bascially, we'd like to be treated the same as when we buy a set of glasses: once, we've bought it, we can do anything we want with it. Glassmakers don't try to have people put in jail for post articles on how to blow glass.

IOW: Is it "OWN it today" or "LICENSE it today"

[denis-The-menace]

This is the real Hippocratic issue:
If you "own it", as the adds say, then you can do what you please. Backup, copy, mix, etc. (minus making $ from copies)

If you actually "license it", then saying "Own it today" is false advertising. AND you should still be able to get replacement media.

The RIAA/MPAA/CRIA all want the same thing: The advantages from both and no disadvantages from either. Also, they want this to work on hardware that you paid for. This is just plain Greed and hypocrisy

My Article Analysis

[GoodNicsTken]

"I really do believe we can stuff enough algorithms in a movie that only the dedicated hackers can spend the time and effort to try to plumb through those 1,000 algorithms to try to find a way to beat it. In time, we'll be able to do this, because I have great faith in the technological genius that's out there."

Yes, but it only takes 1 of thoes great hackers to break it, then it's a simple matter of adding a GUI jack. Why are your technical experts not telling you that? Job Security?

"We can't afford to let that be copied at that juncture because it's the [home entertainment] aftermarket where you make your profits."

Jack, how could this be? Here's what you said about the home entertainment market earlier in your career:

The growing and dangerous intrusion of this new technology," Jack Valenti said, threatens an entire industry's "economic vitality and future security." Mr. Valenti, the president of the Motion Picture Association of America, was testifying before the House Judiciary Committee, and he was ready for a rhetorical rumble. The new technology, he said, "is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone."

This is not about the internet or file sharing, it was in 1982, and he was talking about videocassette recorders. If Jack Valenti had his way back then (he almost did as the Sony BetaMax case went all the way to the Supreme Court) we wouldn't have VCRs today, Blockbuster wouldn't exist and 50% of Hollywoods income wouldn't exist.

Jack, your starting to look like an old fool.

"There is no fair use to take something that doesn't belong to you. ...Now, fair use is not in the law."

Really? Congress disagrees.

"I have a TiVo set. I truly enjoy it."

Really Jack? Ever FF through the commercials? You know that would be stealing from the broadcast industry? Are you a Pirate Jack?

"Where did this backup copy thing come from? A digital thing lasts forever. "

It sure does Jack, but as I'm sure thoes great technical minds you have working for you have said, the physical medium doesn't. Plus, you want to make it illegal to create a digital copy, which locks the content to your degradable media.

" I hope people will say I never had a hidden agenda, and I never played it cute around the turns, and that my integrity stayed intact."

Sorry to dissapoint you Jack, but I think your a lying fool who can't see the forest for the trees.

Beating a dead horse...

[DroopyStonx]

This stuff gets old after a while.

Jack Valenti has proven himself to be an ingorant jackass in just about anything that comes out of his mouth. As tons of others have pointed out already, his man's analogies are the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard.

Cognac glasses vs. downloading movies... yeah, those are the same things alright!

In any case, these people need to get lost. Nothing they say or do has any effect on anything. They can go out and sue movie/music sharers all they want, but they can't sue everybody and eventually they'll be called out on their bullying tactics by trying to coerce people into settling.

If anything, all this will do is create alternate methods of redistribution whether it's foreign hosts or anonymous P2P (I personally hope that anonymous P2P will emerge [and work] soon).

Their empty threats and purchased laws mean nothing to me and most people I know. Because of their aggressiveness and ignorance in trying to solve this manner (and in a totally unnecessary and incorrect way, I might add), it has actually caused a significant increase in the amount of media I download. I just simply don't have the desire to purchase anything from em anymore.. and most people will call a boycott, but ... yeah, I'll just download the stuff.

Re:Beating a dead horse...

[sabat]

It gets old all right.

The fundamental error all these guys (RIAA, MPAA, baby boomers in general) make is that they think that there's no difference between tangible goods (cognac glasses) and intangible goods (movies, songs).

The fact is that a cognac glass is a physical object and is scarce -- I can't just make a new copy of one on-the-fly.

But if something is digital, it doesn't exist in the real universe, only in our minds; they're created by our own perception. And making copies is trivial -- so where's the scarcity? How can you think that there's no real difference between these things?

Our progeny will look at these people, and the way we are "adapting" to new technology, and laugh.

CD Burners/Glassblowers

[subl33t]

"When you go to your department store and you buy 10 Cognac glasses and two weeks later you break two of them, the store doesn't give you two backup copies" Correct but if the purchaser has the tools and the knowhow he can make his own copies of the glasses. They just dont 'get it'...

Valenti is a Jackass

[Thomas Hawk]

Look, either you are selling content or you are selling physical goods -- you cannot have your cake and eat it too. When you buy a DVD you are buying content. The DVD is merely the delivery vehicle for the content. If I buy a tune from itunes and then burn it to my CD and it breaks, should I then also not be able to re burn it? It infuriates me that people like Jack Valenti have no problem gouging the public with expensive dvds and then when the medium is no longer useable try to compare it to a pair of cognac glasses. On Thursday night someone broke the window of my car at the West Oakland BART station and in addition to stealing the dvd player in the car stole all of my kids dvds -- about 20 of them which were hidden in the glove compartment. They stole the dvd player even though I had taken the face plate off and it is essentially worthless to them without it. Now Vallenti wants to tell me that I'm SOL and why don't I just go out and drop another $500 buying my content all over again -- and he has the audacity to speak about a "moral imperative."?! This guy is classic. How about this Jack. How about I just download everything I want for free and use any resource I have to avoid ever paying for another dvd for the rest of my life. How about I just copy everything to my PC and burn it to dvd for play in my car in the future and don't give you or your friends another god-damn dime. There is a reason that you are portrayed as a "villian" in cyberspace. And while you may have a modicum of power based on your previous position with the MPAA, the tide is turning and things like you opening your mouth and saying really stupid things will ony bring about both grass roots political change and technological pirating tools faster. You, my friend, are a hypocrite -- someone who talks about the value being the content one day and the form the very next.

Re:Valenti is a Jackass

[aaronsorkin]

I'm the author of the Engadget piece.

While I disagree with most everything Valenti said, his views are widely shared in the content community, and I would expect his successor to follow in his footsteps.

Valenti would undoubtedly respond to the unfortunate theft of your DVD player and DVDs this way: why should DVDs be treated any differently than other physical items that the burglar might have taken: a wallet, a purse, a jacket in the back seat? you wouldn't have the right to go out and replace those items except by paying for them again.

That's not my view -- I wouldn't see anything wrong with downloading DVD movies or CDs that had been stolen from me -- but certainly there are a lot of people who would take the opposite view.

Not just Valenti.

- JD Lasica

Sleeper

[chaoticset]

I liked how he 'sleeps like a baby'. Of course he does -- his body is cushioned by thousands of dollar bills.

Modern Thinking - Subscriptions

[PingPongBoy]

Philosophy aside, it comes down to the new philosophy. We're living in a technological age. I want enhanced features like making my own backups and being able to copy and download.

Payment may be made with a subscription fee attached to media playing devices. As long as the fee is paid up, the user can play anything downloaded or copied. Else the user can only play purchased media or media made with independent equipment. Advertising could be used in lieu of subscription fees.

The cost per capita would not change that much I don't think. People will enjoy simpler interfacing to the new technology.

Sing-a-long time!

[geeveees]

Everybody, all together now!

HIT THE ROAD, JACK!

The real cost of piracy

[Mycroft999]

The real cost of piracy is not higher prices as we are told by MPAA, RIAA etc. It is lower prices. I'm not advocating piracy here, but drawing a logical conclusion from experience. Several years ago PC games were all on floppy disks and could easily be copied. At that time the average price for a PC game was about $35.00. At the same time the average price for a game console cartridge (difficult to copy EPROM chips) was nearly $70.00. In a about a three month span of time almost all games for the PC were made available only on CD-ROM. At the same time the average price for a PC game jumped to $60.00 and more. Quite a coincidence there isn't it? But I'm not done yet. When this happened CD burning was expensive and error prone. I don't think there were any non-SCSI interface burners out there and burners were expensive to purchase and not very easy to use. Over the next year the total cost of aquiring and using a CD burner dropped like a rock. Once the burner prices dropped below four or five hundred dollars, the price for PC games began dropping as well. This is more than just a coincidence. This little sequence of events in the real world tells me that as soon as the producers of content think they have an impossible to copy medium(or nearly so), they will jack the price up through the roof. Kind of like the Laffer curve. The higher the financial burden, the more the consumer will seek a way to avoid paying it. You want to curb piracy, improve value by dropping prices and stop producing crap for content (especially the record industry).