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Rockbox Plans Open Source Firmware For iRiver Gear
PlayerBlog.com writes "The crew at Rockbox, the venerable open source replacement firmware project for Archos audio players, has put together an effort to port their firmware to the popular iRiver H1xx-series
of devices. In the wake of iRiver's much-maligned (and delayed)
attempts to update their proprietary firmware, this
is excellent news."
Im glad that there are options for people that want to use differnt types of frimware we can pick our OS's and our software its about time we get to pick firmwere and drivers
Linux is like living in a teepee. No Windows, no Gates, Apache in house.
I hope to see the same for iPods too. Do you guys know that if you buy a new hard drive for the store to install into your faulty ipod with a dead drive, there is nothing you can do to get it working again?
Some even hypothesize that Apple encoded something special into the firmware of the drives they buy as part of an anti-hacking measure.
I'd say to them "Go fsck yourselves!" to think that there are so many features that they did not implement, like a *real* EQ, and gapless playback, and even OGG format support, and yet their engineers have a lot of time to do stuff like these?
That stupid POS!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Funny nobody mentioned it and why they'll be sued because they're not doing it as a hobby but as a company...
Unless iRever people actually agree but this'd be a first one...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Hopefully these companies pick up on the hacks like TiVo did and implement them into their newer models.
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
The iPod is a joke at its price range.
:)
The only competitor to the iRiver HDD players for me was the Neuros, and it was an agonizing decision, but the Neuros is just too big and needs special software to operate properly. The iRivers present as perfectly ordinary USB mass storage devices, and the database created by the Windows driver is completely optional, allowing for cross-platform compatibility without needing to fiddle with anything.
I needed Ogg Vorbis support, I needed cross-platform compatibility, I needed small and light. The iRivers aren't perfect, but they're good, solid players, and met my needs.
They've also got *really* cool remotes.
Will it keep the same features?, what if if my iRiver gets messed up with the new firmware?, then I doubt iRiver will replace it for a new one :/
I'm skeptical about the success of this. One of the reasons the rockbox software was so popular and great for the original Archos Jukeboxs' was because their original firmware was terrible.
I wouldn't say that the iRiver firmware is great, but it's not as bad as the original Jukebox. The iRiver, after all, already plays Vorbis.
I would personally like to see software that sped up the loading time on the player.
What about the M3 then? Slimmer than iPod, longer battery life, more features, remote is a tad fiddly if you like the child-like interface of the iPod, but the stick of the iRiver isn't brilliant either.
On the other hand, there isn't a hard-drive player on the market which touches the iHP-100 range (sadly including iRiver's next product the H300-series) and I've pretty much tested them all in a professional capacity as a journalist. The existing firmware is, it must be said, damn good. The way it just works with your file structure if you prefer (and I do), the way navigation works, the way settings work, switching modes, voice recording etc - it's all just right.
So iRiver really do know what they're doing when it comes to software engineering. It's actually the iRiver software that makes it stand out from the crowd. However there's a few glaring problems - the biggest, for me, is the lack of a real shuffle mode. It's easy to end up with the 100-series playing the same sequence of tracks when in random mode. That sucks. Gapless is the next most important for me with the rest of the options such as on-the-fly playlist editing and and file deletion taking up the rear of my priority list by some margin. I can live without that, to be frank. (You can still be Ann)
But let's look at what's good here. With the existing software, you can configure what sorts of play modes you like including shuffle modes. Then when you press and hold the A-B button (on the unit itself or the fantastic remote control), it will cycle through just your preferred modes and not every one of them. Brilliant.
What iRiver needs more than anything else is just a rocket up them to fix the issues and deliver what they've promised. They're a fairly typical Korean company in that 99% of the noise out there from customers doesn't reach anyone making decisions but I think that will change now a slashdot story about a vaporware opensource alternative has appeared.
That's why it's good news. Of course if someone could pressure them into dumping the proprietary software and incorporating the same USB mass storage approach as the 100-series for the otherwise-brilliant iFP-700/800 flash players, that would be the icing on the cake. Then I could switch to something smaller and lighter for the British summer.
(Meanwhile most other manufacturer's of flash-based MP3 players tell you that you don't need USB 2.0. Sigh)
Will Rockbox be able to give the H1xx series USB on-the-go like the H3xx series have, I wonder?
Does anyone know if you need special USB hardware to support USB host operations (not found in the H1xx series), or is it just in the driver?
Horray, I've got one of their players. I'm not sure how much open sourcing the firmware could actually do, it is already compatible with linux and the drivers work pretty well, but I suppose some interesting uses apart from just playing music could be found for these players.
.sid and .mod playback! pls :-)
While we appreciate positive attention for our work, this story is a bit early. We have just begun to look at the iRiver iHP/H1 hardware and are quite a bit away from having anything of significance to show (such as running code).
I'll try to preemptively answer some common questions:
- No, we are not violating the DMCA or any other intellectual property laws. We are only distributing software written by ourselves and we run it on our own hardware. Our software does not circumvent any access control or copy control mechanisms.
- We are not doing this to "expand our market share" or any other weird corporate-style reason. We are doing it because our old Archos hardware is becoming obsolete and hard to find so we need to find new hardware to run our software on. The fact that the iRiver has a large user base is a bonus though, since it means more potential contributors.
- We are not looking at the iPod or Rio Karma since they contain a chip made by Portalplayer that you have to sign away your firstborn to see the docs for. That is a silly practice we do not wish to encourage. The iRiver contains hardware with published docs.
Feel free to drop in on irc if you have any questions.
/Björn
I have an iriver ihp-140 (40gb) player.. this is awesome... I can't wait! an open source firmware means all those obscure sound formats can get supported! like .mods and flac! this is brilliant news.
The Rio Karma has similar hardware to the iPod but does it just fine. Supports OGG too.
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
. The iRivers present as perfectly ordinary USB mass storage devices, and the database created by the Windows driver is completely optional, allowing for cross-platform compatibility without needing to fiddle with anything.
Indeed. I've had an iRiver IHP-120 since February, and I've not even opened the packet that the CD came in. Sure, that means that I'm missing out on stuff like the db creation tools - but I can't say I feel the loss. Plug the player in, drag 'n' drop files to it, unplug it. Easy. No computer support required bar USB and support for USB mass storage devices.
They've also got *really* cool remotes
That was what swung it in the end for me - the remote. I don't like carrying any more than I have to when I'm out and about, so whatever player I got was always going to be in a pocket, or on my belt, or whatever. Having a remote control with a display is really, really useful. After several tape and MD players that had cut-down remotes in terms of features, having one that can do everything the base unit can (bar displaying text files) is ultra-cool.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Who can help these guys with the Gmini firmware?
http://www.donat.org/archos
Obviously, some tweaks could be useful, depending on what the firmware can do with the onboard hardware. I'd love to hear some ideas on those... How to make a media device into something more than a media device, from odd screen displays to any number of other things.
But then what about possible tweaks that could be harmful? Put an autorun file on the drive, have it search the computer it is connected to for something, copy it to the device, and then have the device hide the info in some way?
"Oh, no, sir, I was just hooking it up to the computer so I could listen to MP3's over the better speakers. More relaxing work environment makes for better productivity."
So, what might be able to be done?
@Whee
Just to let you know if you want the tag db (inc. ogg files) then head over to
http://www.marevalo.net/iRipDB/
for a nifty database creator.
Matthew
There is already a plethora of free software for mobile audio and video players available.
The Neuros Audio Computer Team is just doing the same thing for it's far superior player. But this time, the releasing of the firmware code was done after the manufacturers approval. Way to go!
Too bad the released code will only compile under Texas Instruments' Code Composer Studio, a USD. 3500 closed source IDE and compiler.
A GCC target for the TI DSP the Neuros has in (C5416) is already on its way, though.
You know,
:(
:(
i'd be REALLY REALLY happy if someone found a way to make the iriver iHP-140 boot to say, dos or something.
I've tried a lot of things so far. HP's usb dongle boot formatter, booting with usb-enabled DOS floppies, short of actually installing winME to try that. Best that i can tell, not much likes formatting a bootable fat32 drive that's larger than 32G anymore
I even tried making a tiny 100MB partition at the end of the device, but haven't found anything that'll work long enough to format it and make it bootable #$@#$%!#. (the player didn't have any issues with this, mind you... )
If someone gets this working, and then devises a tool to easily make someone else's player bootable quickly and simply, I'd be eternally greatful.
This is what i get for throwing away the floppy drive, i guess
ashridah
what if if my iRiver gets messed up with the new firmware?...
You'd then have the coolest paperweight in your office. "Be the envy of all your friends" and all that.
Hi,
I like this tool as it can record mp3 files directly and the input channel can be configured to manually adjust the recording volume of an external microphone. But one really important thing is missing: a recording level meter
On the other hand I'm really satisfied with iRiver's developers who really listen to their customers and implement new features into their firmware. Maybe they should change development into some sort of open source model to incorportate the 'community' into the firmware development of the iRiver devices
It is possible to create a database from Linux, too, with iRipDB
Agreed, I had a Neuros and it was just too big. Otherwise it was great. I don't download music, my connection is way too slow for that. So the iRiver fits the bill nicely. I definitely like being able to use various formats with the iRiver, I have about 25% mp3's and the rest oggies.
:)
I personally don't have any complaints concerning the firmware. It works fine as far as I'm concerned. Though I'd love to try out Rockbox's stuff
My only complaint with my iHP120 is that the damm thumbswitch is too small.
As a Newton owner, the only thing I have against Apple is the CEO of the company.
That may sound vindictive, but Mr. Jobs has shown a predilection towards dumping current products in favor of the next big thing. Or what will make him the most money. If Apple fans are able to see beyond that, fine.
Other than that, Apple makes some cool stuff.
John
I dream in binary.
I'm skeptical about this. By developing Open Source Firmware to remove bugs from the player we are sending a messenger to proprietary firmware developers that they can just release a buggy firmware and the open source community will solve all their problems. If the guys making this firmware are in contact with the original developers then it may be alright though.
Have you metaroderated recently?
Does anyone think this kind of thing will happen for the iPod? I love the interface from what I have seen, but isn't it always better to have a choice? I am just curious if anyone will bother. Considering it is the overwhelming leader in mp3 players at the moment, you would have to think some development is under way.
I bought my iHP-120 about a year ago. It came with new newest firmware availible at the time.
My only gripes were:
The first item has been fixed via a new firmware release that I installed last week.
That's it. I think it's a GREAT mp3 player.
It has all sorts of EQ, sounds effects, does playlists, looping, records to mp3 or wav from 3 different sources, etc etc.
To me, there's only one thing missing.
Of course I welcome the idea of an open firmware, because one could create all kind of cool toys with it, a portable audio generator (sinewave, whitenoise, digital zero), for example.
Anyways, I guess my point is that the firmware ISN'T crappy. I think iriver has produced a very nice device.
Life is too short to proofread.
Hardware choice is nice, too.
Anyone know if iRiver is planning a small 4 or 5 Gb competitor to the iPod mini? They used to have a 1 Gb hard drive based player but it quickly disappeared. I love my iRiver flash player, but am really jonesing for more storage space while still having a built in radio in a teeny tiny package.
Download my free songs!
Not to mention Ethernet on the charging cradle, and a lower price.
I'm hoping to get one of these soon.
The RIO Carbon also seems like a great alternative to the iPod Mini (more disk space, better battery life, etc.), especially if they can ramp up production.
- chrish
That isn't really a current Apple product, you know.
The fact that Newton may have been a good idea maybe 5 years ago doesn't mean that the same interface, much less the same hardware, is capable of handling today's computing needs.
The Newton was good in its time. It provided Star Trek geeks with a workalike tricorder, but beyond that it was too big, too expensive, and too hard to use for anything other than basic contacts management.
As a completely, but thoroughly crucial, note, Jobs wasn't the CEO that killed the Newton. It was Sculley and that other dumbass at the helm of Apple that led it to the brink of chapter 11. Jobs has been doing what he can to bring the hardware company back from the edge.
The Rio Karma also has dual processors in there, somehting I don't THINK the iPod has.
I had the Karma, and loved it... until the battery died after the warranty expired.
Before that happened, it was great. The only thing I didn't like about it was they purposely made it hard to connect to. You had to use proprietary software, and couldn't simply treat it like a USB drive (without 3rd party drivers).
I have an iFP-595... which is a nice piece of hardware (aside from the lil' joystick control toggle which doesn't respond well).
Linux support is arguable at best if you want OGG support as well - their is an OSS app for transferring tracks using iRiver's native protocol which is a workable solution, but it's not as easy as dragging and dropping folders over.
There is a USB mass storage firmware option with OGG support, but 2.6 kernels have problems recognizing the UMS device. Evidentally there's a problem with attaching/detaching the block device using the UMS protocols in firmware. There are also problems in Windows - the UMS driver wigs out if you get too many I/O requests going at once.
Not to mention OGG playback is limited to >96 or 360 kbs. This usually isn't a huge problem if you record within the normal quality range (i.e. 4-6), but higher encodings clip out.
There are also bugs - I've actually had to reboot a few times due to lockups. Latest firmware seems to be more stable however.
So there's definitely room for improvement on the iFP series - I would welcome independent work on firmware aside from the iHP.
Can't believe nobody has whored the Wiki page with the technical scoop!
The iPod is a joke at its price range.
I know what you're saying, and you're right: in terms of size + storage + features per dollar, iPod is behind. I'm also not a fan of the UI (but I've no experience of the alternatives).
However, iPod's sheer ubiquity means that for 3rd party support nothing else can touch it. I bought an iPod instead of the alternatives because an iTrip is so much neater than generic FM transmitters. No cables, no fuss (except retuning >:( )
Similarly, you can get looms to fool your car stereo into thinking the iPod is a CD changer (e.g. here -- not an endorsement!). Until there is a standard remote control interface -- and I'm not holding my breath -- only the market leader (by sales) will be supported by third parties in this way.
Indeed, the database for the iRiver is optional.
However, you also have the option of creating it under Linux using iRipDB http://www.marevalo.net/iRipDB/, since I believe iRiver made the database spec open.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
The existing firmware is _OK_ for the H140, but navigating a large collection (5000 songs) on this puppy is a trainwreck.
:)
If you use the DB function (which reads ID3 tags), when you go to scroll through your songs by Artist, you could be scrolling for 10 minutes or longer to get from A-Z. There's no way to adjust scrolling speed. That's no way to find a song! And if you go by Song Title, "fahgetaboutit!" There's no search feature, and no way to earmark 'favorites' on the fly.
They said they would release a firmware update in May and one in June, each to address different issues. To my knowledge, they have JUST release a beta firmware (in September), that does not even address all of the issues.
The criticism is that they are spencing all their time/resources on their new products.
I for one welcome a replacement, as long as I don't lose functionality
I use the Rockbox software on an Archos Jukebox to listen to music recorded from DVB digital radio in mp2 format (using vdr on Linux). Unfortunately, ipods and many other mp3 players, such as those from IRiver, don't support mp2 format (or at least they didn't the last time I checked). This is one area where an alternative OS really helps to avoid a lot of unnecessary work and lost sound quality.
Actually - I would like to buy a juke box of some sort... my preference is one with an FM radio..but I can live without... HOWEVER I want one that either supports LINUX for the PC software - or for which there is an open source LINUX replacement.
Ive looked around and not found anything... but then - never found this Rockbox stuff either... Any suggestions...
I want to completely get rid of windows at home... but if I buy a jukebox I want all its features not just a removeable disk.
Any comments appreciated
Thanks
Phill - too lazy to login
aus_trade@hotmail.com
Thanks for posting this story, even if it jumped the gun a little bit. It prompted me to revisit the iRiver support site and I found that 1.60 firmware had been released, dated Sept. 1st. Look here
http://www.iriver.com/support/download_view.asp?iDon't get too excited, though. The only new feature that was a regular in user wishlists and which I am going to use regularly is file deletion from the player. "Gapless" is certainly not what I expected (live albums, eg, still hava an awkward pause between songs).
Nothing's been done about improving navigation (with 5100 files in my H140, this is a big issue), which is still the major flaw in my opinion. I'd love to see an open version of the firmware, but for now on this will have to do. When I was researching digital players, I went for the iRiver H140 and despite some shortcomings, I'm not sorry. With 40Gb, standard usb mass storage device interface, recording capabilities, radio tuner, and especially ogg support (a must for me), I think it's the best hardware out there (although I haven't kept up with new players since I bought this).
Someone else in the forum mentioned an open source program to create databases, but that branch seems to be pretty much abandoned. But, oh, the joys of free software! Someone else picked up the project and has released a new version that fixes some of the bugs. Find it at
http://www.fataltourist.com/iripdb/This new version is already in debian testing, by the way.
From what I understand, and can corroborate from my own experience, there is an annoying, often audible glitch that occurs due to periodically dropped sequences of 32 (?) frames during recording. It's subtle, but quite audible when it falls in a place on the waveform resulting in a very large difference between the remaining segments.
I'm currently working on software that will automatically remove some of the more audible resulting clicks, but I would much rather work on firmware that doesn't drop any samples in the first place!