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Infinium Labs Owes $4 Million, Requires $68 Million to Stay Afloat
nz17 writes "Looks like Infinium Labs, 'maker' of the Phantom game console, can't manage its debt. According to GameSpot, the company's recently filed Securities and Exchange Commission papers show that Infinium currently owes $4 million as a capital deficiency, but requires an estimated additional $68 million to continue work until the end of 2006. However, Infinium remains chipper in the face of oppression, as it estimates its first year of sales will garner $35 million in revenue. Will the Phantom console launch on the projected date of November 18th, 2004, or will the system live up to its name?"
or will the system live up to its name?
These guys have sued people for slanderous statements in the past.
Not that I want to destroy their chipper spirit or anything, but Infinium just needs to give up the ghost and die -- or phantom as the case may be.
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
Let's play with the numbers. $35,000,000 in one year. Let's say they're selling PC's that play games for about $500 each (reasonable price for a desktop gaming PC on the very low end). So, game sales and royalties aside, they'd need to sell 70,000 consoles to make up that revenue.
That's not a totally unreaslitic figure - I guess there are at least 70,000 suckers in the world, although I imagine that there will be fewer sales and more revenue from subscriptions or whatever model the Phantom is supposed to use for gaming.
The problem is that I can't see $35M revenue (not profit) paying Infiniums costs or paying any of that $68M debt. How exactly do you rack up $68M in debt developing a PC anyway? The personal computer is pretty straightforward as it is... most of the work has already been done.
Needless to say, they also have a poor reputation from that legal fight with Kyle earlier on, that won't help them get sales because reputation counts for a lot in the gaming industry.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
I'd be very, very surprised if the Phantom launched in November as anything approaching what we'd recognise as a games console. The idea of it having a proper games library at launch, or indeed at any point in the short-to-mid-term future is preposterous. As I understand it, the idea is that you'll be able to download and play PC games on it, paying both a monthly subscription and the cost of the actual PC game to do so. Leaving aside all the obvious problems that potential customers are going to have with this, I just don't see how the system can work.
After spending several years in a pretty much static state, the minimum specs for PC games have finally resumed their upwards march. Farcry, Unreal Tournament 2004 and, in particular, Doom 3, have finally forced many people into upgrading PCs which hadn't needed it since soon after Quake 3 came out. From what I've seen, the Phantom's hardware is inferior to that needed to run any of the above games well on a current PC. Admittedly, the resolution will be a lot lower, as you'll presumably be playing on a TV, but even so, the Phantom's going to be obsolete with regards to mainstream PC games pretty much as soon as it's released.
Then we have the issue of bugs and hardware compatibility. The X-Box is also built on PC hardware, and it's not really suffered from these. A console game having a major bug generally warrents a slashdot games story devoted to it; a PC game NOT having major bugs at release probably warrents the same. Will the Phantom be clever enough to be able to automatically patch any games the user has bought for it? Moreover, while the X-Box can count on its developers making games specifically for its hardware, the Phantom, which will apparently run full-blown PC games, has no such guarantee. Any PC gamer will at some point come across the situation where he gets a game that doesn't like a specific bit of his hardware, necessitating a specific patch, driver update or even hardware change. With the battle between ATI and Nvidia really getting into swing, it's perfectly possible that we'll see deliberate hardware incompatibilities starting to crop up. How is the Phantom going to react to this?
If the Phantom ever does actually appear, the only role I can see for it is as a kind of extension of current "digiboxes" and the like, running simple games that will be covered in the montly subscription price. How many people will be willing to pay for this? I know I wouldn't...
Is it too late to preorder? I can't find any sales information so I guess it must be sold out. :P
If they get those consoles out more power to them, but looking at there track record and how the market is currently the odds are not in their favor I would think. They do not have much in the way of game developers backing them up, they do not have the finances now.
Unless your like M$ who had money to throw at it and who could deal with a loss of this magnitude, vaporware or not it seems to me like a sinking ship.
Havin' it large, livin' the life, Welcome to the land of the rising sun.
SCO
Have nothing of real value
Sue people
Lacking money
Infinium
Have nothing of real value
Sue people
Lacking money
Oooooh one at a time please, there are plenty of stocks to go around.
Prediction: Infinium can suck my balls.
How many game developers have voiced support?
0
I think it is a hyped up PC with gfx card and a subscription to a games download server - sounds pants to me.
Gotta link:
Timothy Roberts, CEO of infinium labs
Gotta love penny arcade.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Phantom game console...
Explain to me... why does Infinium believe that people will buy a console made by a company about to go bankrupt to play games that don't exist?
That's nearly a haiku:-
Have nothing of worth
Sue people to make money
Going bankrupt soon
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Their console isn't the only thing thats vaporware...
Maybe Infinium can get GoldenPalace.com to sponsor them that X-Prize group. GoldenPalace seems more than happy to throw money at losing projects/people.
I'm looking over their subscription concept. There's something marginally odd about a product/subscription scheme that is actually more expensive when you don't buy games than it is to buy them.
Press Room, 09/09/04
Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf: We have much, much money. Many games for console. Console has already appeared in shops, and we have made many millions out of it.
Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf: Nintendo and Microsoft pigdogs are running for the cover. We will crush them like a snake, and burn their machines in the streets.
Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf: Our console can fly, hoover and tidy your bedroom whilst making dinner for 4 and creating virtual reality world where you are the One, with boomboom magic powers.
Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
Infinium currently owes $4 million
This would probably be shocking to mw if I hadn't just sent my daughter off to college this weekend. To me, $4m is just "eh."
'...as it estimates its first year of sales will garner $35 million in revenue.'
Lol, unlikely, but what are they gonna say?
an open letter to phantom's investors
I live near these ass-hats.. I'll club their kneecaps until you get the $ back, for 5% of the total. email me, we'll figure out the details
I never understood why they went ahead and designed their own console/PC. The concept of actually downloading games and basically renting them with a monthly subscription could actually work. However, wouldn't it be more practical to just do this on a standarded PC? The hardware is already there. Why reinvent the wheel? And besides the market is already flooded with moderate to cheap consoles anyway. What parent or game junkie is going to be like "Well I already have a PC and a GC costs 100 bucks and a shinny new XBox is only $150 but I feel the need to blow 500 dollars on system that doesn't even allow me to own the games." WTF?
-Dipster
The only reason the haiku persists is because it has a specific set of rules. If the average guy tries to write poetry, well, it's just sucky poetry. But instead it's "No, no, it's a Haiku. Look, count the syllables!"
No one seems to be pointing out that the "brains" behind the company has a history of creating then bankrupting companies. I assume he is an excellent marketer, or knows a lot of rich morons, who are willing to fund his ideas.
He probably knew that Infinium would go belly-up, but he gets a nice paycheck until it does.
So let me get this straight...
-They have NO hype for commercials, internet advertisements or even the occasional popup.
-They have NO credibility in the gaming community overall
-No major, minor or even INDEPENDENT names that I know of have backed them or stated they're planning to in the future
-Their CEO is known to be, by and large, an asshat and possibly the only person the company
-They have a couple million in debt with all the above and their plan is to produce a console which in order for us to keep playing on they HAVE to stay in business
So how exactly did they plan on going anywhere except to perhaps Cuba? Africa? Some other country that won't export them?
I've garnered most of my opinions on this from hardocp, PA and other misc sources btw
T A P S.
"Contingency? No! Money down!"
Just think about the world changing possibilities of this guys. Dare to dream!
They have a 4mil current debt.. not 68M like stated by others. The 68 is how much they are going to need to keep afloat for another 2 years.
If they are only 4M in debt right now..IMHO I'd say it's pretty clear they're going to be eating a lot of money on their console (much like all of the other console makers do) and are praying that their subscription services make them their money. How do they intend to make 35M in 1 Year in subscription services and Pay per play alone? Has ANY company managed to make that much money? Didn't Sega try this whole thing with the sega tv? Guess history is doomed to repeat itself once again.
I wouldn't venture to compare them to Sega. At least Sega made consoles. These people just seem to be a void of lost money, and bs claims. It sounds to me this is going to be another Dreamcast if it does ever get released. May be a great console, though of course no where near the dc's greatness, but no one will buy it...
I feel that there is most definately a market for this... just not with nerds and gamers like us. There is a much larger untapped and under developed casual gamer market that would love to have a no nonsense IBM compatible machine where all they need to play is downloaded through their monthly subscription. As a game developer I personally hope that they pull through and can succeed as it opens up more markets for everyone to enjoy great games (and not the old rehashed console garbage).
Not to toot my own horn, but Whereisphantom.com has posted detailed information about this last month. If you want the latest news about Infinium Labs, you need to start visiting WIP regularly. Already today we have breaking news of another company suing them in small claims court and their CFO threatning harm to the owner over a small billing issue.
Just because Gamespot finally gets around to posting information doesn't mean that it's news. It's rather old news to be sure.
"I wouldn't venture to compare them to Sega."
"It sounds to me this is going to be another Dreamcast if it does ever get released."
(*snicker*)
Man, this console is going to be so cool!
Tee-Hee aside, what a shame IMO. I really think that the on-line game rental would be a great deal. Our little group http://virtualcarnage.com/ of Thursday night XBox live players is always waiting around for everyone to pony up and purchase a game. It would be great to simply rent the game for the eve allowing everyone to play.
Hmm... well, I guess people trading stocks have lots of disposable income to spend on game consoles, that's why they advertised there, right?
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Whats a real shame is Sega missing their oppertunity to work with the mod community and embrace the dc as an open console..that would have been so cool.. but o well
*expects to get modded offtopic.. but it was worth it!*
They could make that 68 Million by just selling that awesome keyboard/mouse combo they have.
From what I've heard, that's exactly what Infinium is hoping. But it's not going to happen here.
They've lowered the price for the console itself to $199. That gives them a better shot, but if you are trying to sell to casual gamers, it's not going to work. People who aren't already dedicated gamers (i.e. people who don't already own a game console) will regard it as too high an investment.
If you want to sell games to casual gamers, and hopefully to expand that market, you'd be best off making the games run on something consumers already have. If you want to sell millions of consoles to casual gamers, your best bet would be to make it also function as digital cable set-top box and convince cable companies to eat the cost so they can use it as a feature to attract customers.
Two other opportunities are web distribution and mobile phone games, but of course many people have already realized this. I still think the greatest successes for both of these platforms are yet to come and eventually they will do even more to broaden the market for games.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Has anyone else noticed that this person keeps going around saying how great Phantom will be? It's like instead of paying money for real Marketing they've hired some guy to go around trolling on websites saying how great it is. It's cheap and easy.
I think the saddest part is that even if it bombs, CEO Timothy Roberts will still end up with millions in his bank account. I guess if you know how to milk the system....money isn't too hard to attain these days..
Call me a prick, but... "buh-bye"
I've really got to give Torgo proper credit: WiP?? has been covering Infinium Labs' escapades quite thoroughly, showing every piece of information he could get his hands on. If you want to be up-to-date on what is pretty obviously a scam that just won't quit, check them out.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
A few years ago, a new console might have a life. But since Microsoft entered the market, the only consoles that have a chance of survival are those that were big already. Any new console will be crushed. Crushed like a bug.
She's been there a week? Hows it feel to know that she's had sex with 5 complete strangers already?
Infinium wants us to game /.ers exclaim
On a console that we think is lame
They haven't the cash
To market this trash
"It sucks!" the
I respectfully disagree. Xbox seems to be doing fine. Of all the companies who face a reputation problem among gamer-techno-types, M$ has to be one of the worst. M$ gets openly slammed by /. on an almost daily basis, yet the Xbox is still going strong.
I doubt the few niche articles on /. and hardocp are any part of the average mom-dad purchaser. If Infinum Labs can hit the market with a large enough mainstream advetising campaign, they could actually make some money.
I guess there are at least 70,000 suckers in the world...
Absolutely! AOL alone has over 30 MILLION subscribers!!! That means that all Infinum Labs needs to do is convince 0.003% of AOL subscribers to buy. (30M based on recent msnbc article.)
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
-They have NO hype for commercials, internet advertisements or even the occasional popup.
But they do seem to get alot of press on slashdot
>--They have NO credibility in the gaming community overall
Which doesn't matter if their console is actually good, which it probably won't be but tha's another story.
>-No major, minor or even INDEPENDENT names that I know of have backed them or stated they're planning to in the future
I saw the names eidos and vicendi but that might just be marketing hype
>-Their CEO is known to be, by and large, an asshat and possibly the only person the company
Almost all CEO's are asshats, jerks whatever
you want to call them.
-They have a couple million in debt with all the above and their plan is to produce a console which in order for us to keep playing on they HAVE to stay in business
Ummm you mean they have to make money to stay in business