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Gaim Maintainer Rob Flynn Interviewed
gaimster writes "LinuxQuestions.org just interviewed gaim maintainer Rob Flynn. gaim version 1.0.0 was recently released and it has been the most active project on SourceForge for a while. In the interview, Rob explains what it's like to maintain such a popular project, how he got involved with gaim and what he thinks of some of the IM protocols that gaim supports. He also explains the Ebay auctions that gaim had a while back."
Gaim is really awesome. We use it internally at work for Jabber(internal instant messenging). It's amazing just how many protocols it supports natively. It is a great client even though it's using GTK in windows. I already donated to the gaim project, and so should anyone else who uses it on a regular basis.
I love this project and hope it continues well into the future.
Chris
GAIM is great, because it keeps pushing the boundaries of IM functionality on Linux, BUT that said, I keep switching back to Kopete, mainly because it integrates with KDE. For an IM client, intergration with the desktop is paramount IMHO.
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
I have been using gaim for sometime over msn/icq and I think its fantastic! It is very stable and has been a staple of my linux desktop for some time. I have also converted many of my windows based friends to the program as well. One thing that is so nice about open source software is that in many cases it is available on multiple platforms.
spend money here
You get beer donated. ;-)
:-P
Seriously, money is overrated. Send food, send beer, and then you'll really motivate many developers.
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
It's the Firefox of InstantMessenging. My friends adopt it quite easy. It's actually a shame it isn't part of the OpenCD. But I guess that's because it uses GTK (wich is great for a Gnome addict such as me.) ;-)
From the interview
I had met a girl at the beach that used AIM, and I had no way to talk to her, so, I joined the project to help development.
Now I know why I don't have any good projects to my name.
Time to spend more time on the beach I suppose.
Gaim is a good program, I've been using it for a while now, but last time I formatted my computer, it kept dropping the connection to MSN... despite the fact that my ports are forwarded correctly, and it was working just fine previously. So I've had to revert back to MSN Messenger 6.2, where there's no problem. Otherwise, it's a great little program.
Since the dropline win32 GTK runtime distribution is no longer maintained, are they rolling their own? They have a standalone GTK installer download, but where did it come from?
So brittle. The day will come when we will exist in defensive pods that are impervious to nearly all weaponry. Just host consciousness in a sturdy pod.
At that point we'll be spread out in space alone or in small groups. Protocols wouldn't be a problem, and even if they were we'd have enough computing power to easily translate. So no need for all these IM formats.
-I am an elective eunuch.
When I use OS X, I really like Adium. It uses libgaim for its messaging, but has its own native-OSX GUI. I think the GTK gaim could learn a few things that are particularly nice about Adium too---I like how it highlights your buddy's names in the buddy list with color codes depending on current messaging status: green if they're currently typing, blue if they've typed something into a window you haven't checked since then, etc.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
For an IM client, intergration with the desktop is paramount IMHO.
I don't see why. An IM client has fairly unsual UI requirements, so it seems unfair for it to follow the look'n'feel standards of the DE too closely. The only argument for integration with the DE is the contact list (being able to see if the guy who sent you an email is online), which isn't compelling enough IMHO.
I keep switching back to Kopete
I think Kopete is nice, but it suffers because its UI is too KDE-ish. Having to follow two levels in the context menus to do common actions just so that the structure of the context menu follows the KDE standards? Blargh.
He's 24 in late September of '04 which means he was 12 in late September of '92. Which means he could have remained 12 until September of '93. That's two thirds of the year in question. So what was your beef with his claim again?
This guy got a job offer (assuming it's IT) out of high school. He officially rules. :)
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
Maybe, before they start adding new features, they should work more on getting the thing completely stable. If I read a couple of my friend's infos, it crashes. If I reconnect and it doesn't work, it crashes. I think that should be a higher priority than a damn webcam.
hi
Resizing is handled in the window manager. This is one of the 'problems' of the modularization of X. To repaint in the middle of a resize, the widget set would have to poll constantly for window size. That's a stupid waste of resources.
Im not using it on X u ninney, im using it on Windows.
Anybody else here use Trillian? Besides the fact that it doesn't run on Linux and there's a pay version, how would you guys compare it to GAIM?
One suggestion I would make though.
On IRCs make the default character coding ISO-8859-1
I was on a server that had a channel name spelled with a "tilde e" which was consistently causing problems for UTF-8
Ok, so we see "I owned two twin-turboed Mitsubishi 3000GTs" and then we see "We're just poor kids".
:P
So which is it? And if that's whats classified as poor in your neck of the woods, then damn it I'm moving!
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
Should I be feeling uncomfortable about using Trillian?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I honestly can't understand /.'s obsession with Gaim.
It's a great open source project, that's for sure, but it still lacks so many important features.
No global hotkeys? You gotta be kidding me. The logging system is truly awful too, with all those countless directories (the authors claim that this is the best solution to avoid errors in the logging system, but I've seen many better solutions from other programs).
Another undeniable thing is Gaim isn't stable enough. The latest version already locked up on me (on Windows XP) a good handful of times, and some friends claim to have problems with its stability too. Yes, even under Linux -- amazingly, nowadays it's *very* rare to have any application lock up on me under XP. Including other IM's.
That said, I'd still understand all the fuzz if another such project didn't exist. But hey, wait a second, there's Miranda Instant Messenger! A much more stable program, which is also free, and features a huge plugin database that adds a lot of functionalities Gaim can only dream about right now. Including global hotkeys and an amazing logging system...
OK, I know Miranda is Windows-only.. But that doesn't impede us to compare it to Gaim, considering both programs are freeware. So, well, I just think it's sad that Gnome and KDE users have to lean on Gaim for an IM'ing solution right now. If I were still running X, I'd be seriously disappointed with this reality.
It's not like he said Ferrari's or some other expensive exotic car.
My wifes new Ford F-150 cost as much as a 3000GT did.
He probably had a couple $400 car payments. Easy to cover for anyone with a good work ethic and self control.
No big deal. Get over it.
Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix
GAIM is one of my favorite open source projects, and a wonderful app in itself. However, one thing annoys me: the fact that I have to upgrade the whole thing for every minor protocol change.
As in, when Yahoo! or MSN makes a switch to its protocols, I can't just download a file and fix it - I have to get a whole new package, or recompile, and so forth. This is particularly frustrating as newer GAIM releases (naturally) use newer GTK libraries and then all the libraries that depends on. Turns it into a Microsoft-esque upgrade cycle!
It'd be nice if I could just install GAIM 1.0, and then keep it like that for a few years, upgrading the protocol plugins whenever necessary. It'd save a lot of time, and mean I don't need to keep upgrading Glib, GTK, and a million other things (that tend to get heavier with each release) just to keep on chatting.
Perhaps I'm missing something - any thoughts on this? Either way, good work GAIM crew!
Oh wait...
Demand the developers do as you say!
Uh, hmmm...
Demand you be able to give developers money to do as you say!
Or, ummm...
Do it yourself?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
This will probably be modded as a troll considering it isn't the common Slashdot opinion, but oh well.
I've used gaim off and on over the past year, (on both Linux and windows) and found that the windows port really doesn't compare at all to the Linux version, and to put it simply, on windows, it's really just a waste of resources.
For all the windows users that can't stand the bloated msn messenger or latest official aim client, I suggest at least checking out Miranda. I was introduced to it a few weeks ago by a long time gaim user (who was fed up with all the inconsistencies and problems with gaim under windows) and have been using Miranda almost exclusively since then. Albeit, it has some current issues with file transfers, but I'm sure that's only a momentary problem.
What I really like about Gaim is the libraries, they have been the basis for many other excellent tools. Like BitlBee http://www.bitlbee.org/, a very nice gateway that allows you to talk to anyone using anything through your irc client. Aterm + Screen + Irssi is my personal favorite communication's suite.
BitlBee Guide - Talk to msn, icq and jabber contacts using any IRC client: http://linuxreviews.org/software/irc/bitlbee/
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Since I use the MSN network more than any other IM network, I cannot recommend GAIM to anyone. It drops connections all the time and displays a big, mandatory connect window whenever it tries to reconnect. It's always reporting inconsequential errors in a system window that cannot be disabled. I had to terminate the client while watching a movie during an internet outage because it kept superimposing messages over BSplayer every 5 minutes. The file manager is absolute garbage, and the directory shortcut buttons point to ridiculous places. The only unique feature I like is sorting contacts by log size.
GAIM is nowhere near ready for 1.0. Maybe it is tolerable if you use Linux and have no other option, if you have low standards, or you must support freeware at any (no) cost. If you use Windows, Trillian is superior in every way.
Did they ever fix the issue with global away messages? (Issue being that there weren't any!) That was the one thing I always hated about Gaim, and the reason I never even bothered with the Windows version when I switched back to the dark side.
where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
This functionality would be extremely nice to have. Does anybody know if there actually any plans to make this merge happen?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
" I still use Dreamweaver MX 2004, which doesn't have an Open Source WYSIWYG counterpart as far as I've been able to find"
No offense, but if you're using Dreamweaver to build wysiwyg table layouts, you're about four years behind the times. Building table-less layouts with XHTML and CSS is so much simpler (once you learn the new tricks) that it's easier just to code in a good text editor! Dreamweaver has pathetic CSS support and is an awful XHTML editor. Its code never validates and is often too complex to be human-readable.
In other words, unless you really like the hoary old Netscape 4/IE 5 paradigm of web design, you shouldn't let the lack of a WYSIWYG table editor stop you from abandoning XP.
(Yes, I am a professional web designer.)
Darn, I wish I had known this was going to happen, I'd have asked him why they're such asshats (especially Sean) to Gentoo devs and users.
This mainly stems from this bug.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
"Oh, but GroupWise uses SSL so it's not vulnerable to attack..."
But gaim doesn't check the cert.
"Oh, but you can plainly see, in the unchecked for loop that overflows keyword, it only allows alphabetic characters, so you couldn't put shellcode in it."
But the x86 has several instructions that pass isalpha(). Use GroupWise on gaim and ride my 'AI' NOP sled.
I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
wow! and he can code too...who'd have thunk it http://www.machinehead1.com/bio.html
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this post is too small to contain.
Miranda is a trillion times better.
Never tried IM before. Are there some IM test bots around, with whom I could have a little chat to try it out?
Maybe someone like Eliza? My regular therapist being on holidays...
It would be nice if the config window came up at a reasonable size.
This seems like it could be an issue as IM seems like one of the 'killer apps' for smaller computers.
I just wonder why the GTK1 branch was abandoned... I'm sure there's plenty of people like myself why use all GTK1 programs, and aren't going to install another library, that uses up lots of memory, needs entirely seperate themes installed and configured, etc.
It's not as if all projects are getting rid of GTK1 in order to support GTK2. gtk-gnutella is a good enough example of that.
Also, there are lots of popular programs that are GTK1-only... GMPlayer, Sylpheed, GPA, AxYFTP... I could go on forever. Why force people to load-up multiple toolkits when maintaing GTK1 support wouldn't be terribly difficult? Surely you wouldn't decide to switch to a (dynamic) Motif-only version, and leave GTK1/2 users behind...
I'm personally sticking with 0.59.8
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
man, I don't know many kiddies who own a couple of mitsubishi 3000GT and they even have some money to throw away on powerhorses for such bi-turbo machine.
He abso-fucking-lutely must have been giving his ass for some bucks... You all, let's try his way!
Heh. ``Asshat'' is the perfect word to describe what Sean acted like there.
I found that out a few months ago, and it's one of the two reasons I no longer use Gaim.
The other reason I've switched is that, as of KDE 3.3, Kopete has become far more usable--it's not as mature as Gaim yet, but it's certainly better than it was, and it's sufficient for what I use it for.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
Apparently no one can get this damn thing working.
This is really a shame, there are tonnes of features that are kind of useful but webcaming will onyl be useful if it's popularly adopted.
Kinda like IM...
Upstream wanting distros to mark their versions so that they don't have to support anything but the latest version downloaded directly from them, or compiled from their sources are beginning to get more and more common. This imho is a good thing, distros should handle their own problems and the maintainers of that distro would then communicate with upstream to reduce the signal to noice ratio. Gentoo users may feel that they are somehow exempt as they compile from source but I have no reason to belive Sean is complaining unless he has valid reasons, I simply fail to see the problem. For a real asshat check what happend to debian with the mirc package when the package maintainer refused to do a similar thing (the package maintainer was wrong but the reaction was far worse). lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/02/msg00771.htm l
(there are other threads discussing this but this was the one i found first)
That of course should have been micq and nothing else.
Yes, there is Miranda IM. I have yet to try it out yet though. The major reason why is exactly because of the lack of cross platform support in Miranda-IM[1].
I mostly use AIM and IRC (with plans to use MSN and Jabber in the future) and I haven't had much trouble with gaim on windows. There are a couple things like the main window not popping up when someone logs in (and I have yet to report that bug -- DOH!). Oh, and just watch the page fault count keep growing as usage continues (which seems to be prevalent in windows programs in general -- the page fault counter on windows can be a better indicator of activity than the CPU time counter, with some exceptions of course).
Now, I don't know if there is anyone working on merging Miranda-IM and Gaim, but Gaim is working on libgaim. Here's a quote from the article:
"RF) I'd like to see the Core/UI separate move further so that other interfaces can be slapped on to the core."
At the very least the protocols will be in libgaim (which is what is the "core" that is being seperated out of the "UI"). This way, Miranda, Kopete, and Gaim can all compile against the same library (which really should be called libIM), and all move forward faster instead of duplication where there should be none[2].
[1]The idea is to slowly transition and train my users to this cross platform software (FF, TB, OOo, Gimp, Gaim, etc) and move to a hybrid of windows desktops and "Linux Desktops" over VNC, and then look into Windows terminal services with Linux on the Desktops. Anyway, that's the long term plan. Moving in that direction is slow and step by step -- as it should be with any transition.
[2] They all have different front ends/UI and that's where they should be competing/trying to differentiate themselfs.
There: Something at a specific location.
Their: Owned by someone.
Please make sure your english compiles.
There is a reason Gaim devs hate Gentoo users. The users mess with all the settings instead of compiling the source "straight". They put all these compile flags and stuff trying to optimize the hell out of an instant messenging client. Then they bitch and complain to the devs about how the software sucks.
This is just to illustrate both sides. I used to use Gentoo and I was annoyed by my fellow users.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Troll if you're a gentoo user (like I am), maybe Funny if you're a cold bastard, but definately not insightful.
Jay | http://oldos.org
If you want to illustrate both sides you should point out that Gentoo devs are not filing bullshit bug reports against Gaim.
GAIM is nice, but *boy* would I love to see GPG support being available (and in the base distribution, instead of in a plugin that doesn't always build with the current main GAIM release, as the existing encryption support is).
May we never see th
I remember back in the day, probably 3 or 4 years ago, when gaim was a much smaller but up and coming project, I had a stupid issue involving my password not working.
It turned out that the developer's either forgot to include a key, or there was a little kink left in the reverse engineering procedure. In particular, some code listed all the acceptable characters for passwords, i.e., AOL's protocol accepted the _ (underscore) key, but gaim didn't.
Conclusion? My password didn't work. I was quite confused. Then something magical happened- I looked at the code, and found the list of accepted symbols. I added my key of interest (although it turned out there were others too), and tada, my first patch at the age of 19. A couples year later and I have one of my own opensource projects (http://xmms-projectm.sourceforge.net/). The point? Gaim will always be a fond memory for me because it was my first blood helping the free software world, and in some way it contributed to my desire to write my own project.
Thanks Gaim!
Carmelo
"Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!
That makes me wonder, since I quite enjoy the solidity of my mostly 686-compiled Gentoo box. I save Athlon XP-specific flags for OpenGL libraries, and even then, I steer clear of the flags that haven't been tested out so carefully.
I love Gentoo, though it gives foolish people the chance to prove that just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
Amen. We all get such bad reputations from all the stupid gentoo ricers. Someone actually tried to convince me that -O9 was real, and -ffast-math was a good idea since he could notice the speed difference. :( **sigh**
Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
I was the maintainer and lead developer on GAIM for over a year before Rob took over. I will NEVER lead an OSS project again, or even donate my fixes to projects I use (except anonymously), with the exception of some SE or EDA projects that the 13-year-olds will NEVER get ahold of. Why? Because 99% of you all are a bunch of whining, stupid, ignorant bitches. I don't want you contacting me and wasting my time. I couldn't STAND it. _Especially_ on a project that is designed to allow people to get in touch with you, almost all I got to hear was people bitching about this and that. OSS developers DO have a 'real life' and you incessantly bug them about a feature YOU want but are too ignorant/stupid to write yourself, or if you're not, totally ignore the code style used in the project (It makes it a horrible BITCH to integrate.) You drive off talented developers because they don't want to be the whipping boy of the completely ungrateful "OSS community".
That's why I say that Rob (and guys like Rob) are why OSS works. Somehow (for four years now, I guess ), Rob has been willing to put up with the bullshit involved with leading an OSS project. He's a rare commodity. Most of those of us talented enough to do the development can't (or simply aren't willing to) put up with the crap involved.
So take some time to thank the guys who write the software you use, send them some beer (I was living with Rob when the beer mentioned in the article arrived -- and it was MUCH appreciated), some cash, some interesting hardware, an email, or in GAIM's case, an IM, SOMETHING just to show that you are at least a little grateful for the hours and effort put in, instead of bitching about one little thing wrong with the software and talking crap about how much better it could be, when you're not willing to lift a finger yourself.
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow...
Snipped from the current gaim ebuild:So, if there was a flag that kept causing problems, they'd just remove it in the ebuild for the compile. More Gentoo FUD.
Get your own free personal location tracker
If Rob turns on the sourceforge paypal account I will gladly send him money for beer, but I have to admit that I am too lazy to send bottles by mail.
Anyway. During the early days of gaim a lot of the feature requests were gui-related, and the gui of Gaim has really improved a lot. Therefore there isn't really any reason to flame anymore.
Here is a nice round-up http://lwn.net/Articles/22991
I always knew there were Linux fanboys around here, but is the word "UNIX" now a swear word on Slashdot, like fsck and arse. UN!X forever, beeyotch!
Or maybe UN-X is a new fork in the XFree tree? Sort of like the UN-cola, 7-Up.
I'm not a talented programmer, but I'm excellent at putting up with people's bullshit. And telling them to sod off eloquently.
So if you ever need a Lead Crap Taker, I'm your man.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Gaim is indeed an excellent project and the effort that has gone into it cannot be understated.
But in my opinion, the separation of the UI and back-end cannot happen fast enough. Maybe its only me that is frustrated with the UI and how it resembles AIM too much, even though it's a multi-protocol solution.
I'd like to see a unified back-end that meets everyone's needs, just like Gecko. Instead we have too many projects rewriting the same code.
That's why I'm poor, ha. Actually, I was just young and wasteful with money. I wish I could go back and do it over again and save instead of spending it on everything.
19yrs old + good job = bad idea.
---
Rob Flynn
Pidgin
I don't approve of his behavior with interacting with the gentoo users.
---
Rob Flynn
Pidgin
"... don't mess around with Jim."
---
Rob Flynn
Pidgin
I turned 13 in April of 93. Thinking back, I maybe been 13 at the age I installed Linux, it was so long ago that I can't clearly remember.
Either way, it fit on just a few floppies back then.
---
Rob Flynn
Pidgin
Wow, I am surprised you remembered! Gaim has come a long way since then, thats for sure. Keep up the good work, Rob.
Carmelo
"Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!
Damn skippy. Love ya Rob. Do you have any idea where all my crap is? (Bass, CD's, books)
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow...
Al Qaeda has ninjas!
If the software doesn't compile with any reasonable set of flags, that's the developer's fault. I'm so sick of hacking source code for different apps because people don't take the time to test compilation on different machines. Until you successfully compile it on several architectures and operating systems and it works without major bugs, it's not stable. I would encourage all developers to use -ansi -pedantic -Wall options when developing in C/C++, or better yet leave the 1970's and program in a modern language.
I agree that it is nice, but Gaim does it was well.
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
I haven't noticed that. Is that a recent feature (I haven't upgraded in 2-3 months)? Or is it an option somewhere? I've seen the little icon in the chat window that says "your buddy is typing", but no highlighting of the buddy names in the buddy list window.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10