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Desktop Apps Ripe Turf for Open Source
Amy Kucharik writes "Two new reports on open source validate office suite application alternatives like OpenOffice.org and StarOffice and their push into the mainstream against market giant Microsoft Office. "
As much as I know we all hate MS funded "research" I just can't trust the number of times that an application is downloaded as market-share. Sorry, that just does not compute...
Hell, I have downloaded Firefox on countless occasions (usually to test a new version). It never lasts more than an hour on my machine. Does that count as a piece of market-share in the browser war when I don't actually use it?
I have downloaded OpenOffice multiple times as well (on multiple computers) to test and to tour the features newer version have to offer. Again, the install may last a few hours while I test the features that I require. So my 25+ downloads counted towards the 16+ million?
I am glad to see that somewhat viable alternatives are coming into their own and getting media attention but I don't know if we really need to be associated with false numbers just to get the word out. It doesn't exactly give us a leg to stand on when MSFT fires back about the artificially inflated numbers.
Its true, a local newspaper by me just got all new
Sun x86 based systems and they all came with OpenOffice. (I was a bit baffled why they didn't have StarOffice but such are the mysteries of life.)
am quite nervous about OpenOffice. I don't understand Sun's latest deals with Microsoft but I don't trust them.
Keep working on koffice guys. We really shouldn't be putting all our eggs in one basket.
In a report from El Segundo, Calif.-based consulting firm Computer Sciences Corp. (CSC), Microsoft dominates the office suite market, with 95% of the overall share and more than 300 million users worldwide.
However, the report notes that OpenOffice.org, an open source alternative to Microsoft Office, has secured 14% of the large enterprise office systems market, with over 16 million downloads and countless CD installations. Even with Microsoft retaining 95% overall marketshare, the fact that OpenOffice now holds almost 15% of enterprise workstations, means it's only a matter of time before John Cubicle brings OO.org home.
Disclaimer: I use OO.
so far. The article seems to think cost is the reason to get excited. I agree, that is pretty damn cool, however, the real reason to get all a titter is because of the open formats used in open office.
The format being as open as it is ( you can read, in the code, the format if all else fails ), you can do a great many things that just aren't possible with ms office.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
If all we ever do is try to emulate the M$ Office and other popular desktop apps, We'll will never be able to offer a superior product. It's time to add non bloating features that outshine the commercial software.
This is only somewhat true.
While I have been reading all Word documents with OpenOffice (OO) for the past 2 years or so, I often run into Word features not supported by OO. For instance, I recently received a password-protected Word document that I could not open with OO. I had to use AbiWord (how come the report doesn't mention that!?).
Another missing feature seems to be the ability to view Word document changes when the original document has 'track changes' turned on.
I guess reports like this one help larger, less up-to-speed corporate users by opening their eyes and mind.
Simpy
It's only a matter of time before Microsoft files a patent suit against you for using OpenOffice.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
More than just application quality, price, ease of use, etc. will be needed to get OSS into big corporations. Many of them have spent significant $$$ on add-ins and custom development in Word, Excel and Access. If OpenOffice supported VBA, it could be a slam-dunk, but integration with applications such as accounting systems, scientific data acquisition, or just automation of Word and Excel for productivity would need to be rewritten from scratch.
Those apps are a big part of my business -- I'd happily migrate them, but nobody's the least bit interested in the Pharmaceutical industry in moving away from MS Word and Excel.
Design for Use, not Construction!
There is an interesting writeup about opensource music apps over at News Forge today. Just installed wxMusic and it looks excellent for large music collections.
Help fight continental drift.
To think I would live to see that line. What an age we live in. And to think that there are now people posting on /. who will argue about it. Where's my time machine when I need it?
;)
This tagline brought to you by 1500 monkeys in just under 17 years.
Why is it that whenever a story about Linux desktop application suites comes up, they always bring up OpenOffice and StarOffice? Are there not other good examples they can use?
I don't mean to bait flame here, but aside from OpenOffice and StarOffice (which essentially do the same thing), what other good, solid business apps are available for Linux? All I ever hear about are the same two.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
- a tool to go through specified directories and copy and convert all files to OO format.
- some sort of central server type connector that allows multiple users to work on the same document at the same time and the result mirrored to all users.
1 is required , 2 would be a selling point
*Forget* about Desktop, its a straw man! Nobody gives a shit about desktop computing any more; the days of cubicle-bound misery-computing are numbered!
.. and you can do a hell of a lot of computing/real-work with such devices.
..}
The real realm for application prosperity, *especially since Linux has a lead above and beyond WIN32*, is Embedded.
Yes, thats right folks, give up the Desktop War of Straw. Computers getting smaller, and smaller, and smaller
{If you've got the temerity for bold app design, I might posit, oh and some cheap host-hardware to throw in that $400 software/hardware combo you're selling to your customer
In short: Desktop is Dead. The New In is Embedded.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
especially in education, where $$$ are often tight, and users rarely need all the features of MSOffice. That's also a good way to get the word out to parents as well.
Case in point - our local high school has a class that requires a PowerPoint presentation as part of the class. The teacher insisted on PP and was a bit taken back when I suggested to one parent that OO has a perfectly good presentation package and doesn't require shelling out the $$$ for MSOffice; and you can test for compatibility with MS's free PP viewer as well.
Despite living an affluent district, many parent's can't afford the $125 or so for a student edition MS Office and may not even have a PC that can run it, so OO is a very viable alternative.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Here is something interesting. The LDS Church is now distributing Open Office for use on machines at local meetinghouses. This is very interesting because they are very very careful at which software they use.
The interesting this about these numbers is that no one can put a spin on this. For instance, if these numbers were about 'number of PCs sold with Linux pre-loaded', you would have claims that this was only being done to circumvent the MS tax, and most people subsequently loaded the PC with pirated Windows OS.
You just cannot make those claims in this case.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be
While the OOo/SO twins get the 'starchild' treatment, IMO it will be of couple other desktop apps that will bring up open source (and that includes Linux OS) apps. These would be Firefox/Tbird and GIMP. I have switched 2 neighbors over to these (1 does pro photog) and they like them. The photog guy is now open to getting Linux installed on his oldest PC (cannot go to XP, dying on 98).
Since all of these work on Windows, these people can learn on their existing WinOS, and switch to Linux when the 'upgrade to XP or else' is forced on them.
Is there any Linux OS that is less than 10 Mb ,and can be run from CD without installing?
,i dont want knoppix.It may be good, but I simply cant download 700 MB image file on dialup.
No
So any options?
Oh yeah iam a windows user.wanting to try linux.or perhaps a new OS.
I have met many professionals that are biased on the desktop programs they use because they are the "industry standard" and want to feel like a professional. I good example is photoshop, I have had several graphics designer friends say they wont use anyother graphics package regardless of features because "its not photoshop..." How can opensource apps with their underdog persona get around this?
The above observation is a good point since frequency of download does not equate to frequency of use.
The greatest lack of credibility for Linux going mainstream is the lack of an AOL client in Linux. If Linux really had a huge following or interest in the consumer market, then AOL would have already launched an AOL client for Linux so that millions of tech-ignorant consumers could dial into AOL from their Linux desktop.
The success of Linux continues to be restricted to the business market and the engineering market. Soccer moms driving around in environment-destroying SUVs still will not touch Linux with a 10-foot poll.
Most newspapers don't use an office suite for actual wordprocessing. The stuff they need from a word processor is so specific, that office doesn't really help them.
On the other hand, they get office documents ALL THE TIME in the mail. At the paper where my wife works, they actually have to share Office installs, because there is no budget for a mostly useless office suite for every computer.
When the Phbs in management there realize that there is a free alternative that, since they DON'T ACTUALLY NEED TO PRODUCE CONTENT ON IT, is FAR superior to MS Office, you're going to see an OO.o boom in an important market sector.
I've actually pitched it a few times, but the buerocracy is so monolithic. Everythign has to go to corporate.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
No, I'm not a Linux geek by any means. I am certainly not a MSFT lover, but I'm a best tool for the job, and most of my job requires MSFT today. On that same thought, I've recently been getting into some open source things, and have even installed Linux pretty recently (just instaleld a MythTV box at my house!).
I've made the switch to Firefox completely - both at work and at my home. Why? It looks really nice, functions well, and was easy to get my wife switched over to as it functions pretty similar to tools she already knows. Hell, I've even switched some of my less technical friends over, and they love it. I didn't do this with Mozilla though - it just seemed "too much".
Now, on the other side, I finally broke down and installed OpenOffice to give it a shot. I thought, will this be the Office breaker I've heard about? No way. I can't stand it - it's clearly designed by technical people and doesn't have the slightest bit of usability in mind. Bash MSFT all you want, but they spend a fair amount of cash on usability, and unfortunately flattery is the best form of competition right now (think about how early versions of Word had the ability to emulate certain WordPerfect functions).
Right when I installed OO I went to open the word processor. It's actually called a Text Editor. WHAT? Notepad and nano are text editors, this is supposed to a Word Processing suite! Further, the interface looks like Office 95 - honestly, people are visual and the interface makes me feel like I should be sitting in a tiny bricked wall office with no windows and a flickering flourescent light overhead. Sure, some may like that, but it's not most people. Finally, the product seems slow on WinXP - yes, it may be my setup, and your mileage my vary, but Word is snappy on my box so it doesn't matter.
The short short is that products like Firefox and MythTV can make me a convert. They're well designed, look nice, have a lot of functionality, but also keep the end user in mind. OO.org has a long way to go thought before I'd recommend it to one single person as a Microsoft alternative.
...is a good project management application. I just scanned SourceForge.net but didn't find one. IMHO this is sorely lacking in the Open Source world. So much so that I've thought about writing my own (I wrote one that was curses(3)-based back in the early '80s :-). Does anyone have any pointers to a decent[1] project management app? Or should I start coding? ;-)
[1] decent == Can track resources, tasks, costs; can perform some sort of resource auto-leveling; can report resource conflicts; supports GANTT charts; has a relatively easy-to-use UI.
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
I don't know how StarOffice is these days, but OOo is bloatware and it shows. Since when do I need more than 128 MB RAM and a coffee break to start a word processor?
I really prefer the approach taken by AbiWord. They made a good word processor, without the bloat. It continues to be light and snappy now that they have added support for various features and formats.
Now, AbiWord is only a word processor, but with other projects providing spreadsheets, databases, etc. you can still get all the pieces of a complete office suite. Add some coordination and cooperation and you can get everything nicely integrated and uniform, too. Or use KOffice; a bit lacking in features last I sampled it, but well integrated and relatively light.
It's not that I don't recognize the hard work that went into OOo, it's just that I think the development approach is fundamentally flawed. Same goes for Mozilla, BTW. First they made a huge effort to build the Mozilla application suite, now Firefox and Thunderbird are working hard to strip off the bloat. KISS.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
If there were Outlook replacements and Exchange replacements, then corporations could swap out one or the other rather than having to jump immediately into the water.
Especially more so in the fact that if you swap out Exchange and keep Outlook 2000, then your IT department will have saved a bucket-load of cash end whilst the end-users will never know the difference and never need retraining.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
As a teenager I gave countless copied CDs with Office or Windows on it and it only helped MS. Now I do the opposite. I have Slackware installed (might try some gentoo or Unbuntu soon though) and use solely OpenOffice and when people come to me for help or for software I point them to FOSS alternatives. Open Office works great with it's own format. It just has problems with closed formats. I think being polite and asking people to send me thing in RTF is a good way to save 300$+ on my OS/Office suite.
From my experience more people turn onto OpenOffice.org for its one-click PDF generation than anything else. People who publish newsletters, invitations, or just some documents they want on the Web site. Adobe Acrobat is $170 on Pricegrabber, but it's generally $250 retail in stores, so I've seen people wow'ed by OpenOffice single click Word->PDF conversion.
They are not switchers, they continue to use Office (MS Office 97 in some cases), but keep OpenOffice for this feature when they need another PDF.
..in Business 101 when they said that cost leadership wasn't a valid strategy. Not that offering better features for less cost isn't an even better one.
The trend is right IMO, large enterprises have the push to make it a standard. Then it will dribble down to smaller companies and finally to end users (think: employees).
I think you will find that 99% of the users are completely satisfied with the feature set of either MS Office or OpenOffice. The key issues are mindshare (Office. Oh, you mean there's some other Office?) and compatibility.
Having large enterprises on your side is a great strength in that respect. If [Fortune 500] can't read your (obscure enough that OpenOffice chokes) Word documents, you have a problem. If you can't read [Fortune 500]s OpenOffice documents, you have a problem. See?
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
However, I use MS Office V.x for Mac over OpenOffice. Why? I find that it works better than on windows and I actually like using it over other applications. But mainly PowerPoint. Keynotes is nice and I could survive with Apple Works for my word processing and spreadsheet needs, but still I find PowerPoint for Mac extremely hard to beat. Same with Word for Mac. It just seems cleaner than Word XP or 2000. Excel I don't use often enough really to go one way or the other.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Rather than create a patch, you might try running updated or more standards-conforming software.
"RH Linux" hasn't been around for a couple years (I can only assume you're running RH8 or 9, forgive me if it's RHEL). A fresh install of Fedora would alleviate all of your problems, trust me. I've been running various linux distributions (Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora) over the last six years, and I've never run into any of the problems you describe.
It would appear that the Firefox people aren't leaving the linux world behind, they're leaving you behind personally. Could it be that their newest binary releases aren't supported on an old version of Red Hat (same for OOo)?
These are simply not problems experienced by the majority of users, and as such, are a little hard to understand.
Oh my god! It's a new plague and it's . . . it's . . . it's upgrading peoples computers to advance its political agenda !!!
Firstly, may I point out open source isn't (supposed to be) political. Secondly, why on earth would someone install software on other computers without asking permission first?
What about the lovely Antiword app?
:-D
I hate to open OpenOffice/Abiword just for read a shity text writen for a moron in Microsoft Word, Antiword cut the bloat and show me just plain text
Try it and be happy
Saludos amigos \o/
- Slayer_X
http://www.slayerx.org/
Lima
I just timed my machine. It's not a powerhouse, just a standard issue Work machine.
Microsoft Word XP: 9 seconds.
OpenOffice.org 1.1.1: 24 seconds. It took 9 seconds just to see the splash screen. (However, I don't keep the 'quicklaunch' systemtray application running, so with that it might be a bit faster.)
That's an eternity in computer-use-time.
Comment of the year
Well the problem is if you do serious work with word (huge documents) then it basically falls apart.
You keep using this word "validate". I don't think it means, what you think it means.
If some organization was actually validating these products it would be great. I tried OpenOffice on one of my real-world MS Word documents awhile back and it crashed (no I don't remember which version). I imagine it works fine for simple documents, but then again, so does WordPad.
I still think that the goal of MS Office file compatibility is a losing one. They should try to produce a better product instead. Anyone who believes MS Office file compatibility is critical, isn't going to risk getting fired to save a few dollars.
On the other hand, many users don't need to edit old documents or share them, and those are the users to target with a superior product IMHO.
OSS needs an image shakeup; I use firefox, gaim, openoffice.org on my windows xp machine not because they are low cost, but because they are BETTER!!!