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A New Species Of Giant Ape?
jd writes "The New Scientist, The Age (an Australian newspaper), Daily Telegraph (a British newspaper), BBC, and the Discovery Channel are talking excitedly about a strange primate, found in the Congo. Locals say it is notorious for killing fully-grown adult lions. Optimists hope that it is a new species, maybe related to the gorilla. Pessimists claim it's an overgrown chimpanzee. In either case, primates aren't discovered every day, making this a rare find indeed."
I've already discovered a couple of those in my local pub.
. . . Peter Jackson began production on his remake of king Kong in the Congo last week . . .
"Developers, developers, developers!"
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Up way to late and I read that as found giant gorillas killing adults...
I think I've read congo a few to many times.
Wasn't this story reported -- and discussed here -- in august last year as well?
8 /1 0/0014206&tid=134&tid=14
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/0
(Of course, I didn't RTFA)
If the answers to these questions are yes, then we need to get a gorilla that understands sign language ASAP.
Do I read to much?* At least I never saw the movie.
*well, not TFA, apparently. ;-)
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Wonderful discovery but, now that we've found them, one wonders how long it'll be before we somehow manage to wipe the species out :(
...that it wasn't just George Bush on vacation?
Bob
Listen to my latest album here
They were coming in for the kill. I was directly in front of them, and as soon as they saw my face, they stopped and disappeared.
An ape capable of killing lions ran away after a peek--that must have been one ugly face!
I for one welcome our new hitherto unknown giant congolese ape overlords
He/She/it's already on the US 'Do not fly' list
AT&ROFLMAO
King of the Jungle, kills lions with bare hands?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
I believe Ms Williams has stumbled across the breeding/training ground for Microsoft's army of evil monkeys.
I wonder why they stopped attacking when they saw her...
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
Locals say it is notorious for killing fully-grown adult lions.
IT's new, but already notorious... and it's been slashdotted as well.
On a more serious basis, why don't the "new scientists" directly ask the locals about the species they know, I am sure they'd find out many things instead of just tracking these on their own.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Wonder how long till they get turned into bushmeat
My email addy? should be easy enough.
I'm glad that the cliche about technology (it will be applied first in porn) does not apply to zoological discoveries too.
*phew*
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
this seems to be related and has pictures and better info - just look at the size of those footprints?
http://karlammann.com/bondo.html
Bigfoot ?
Nick...
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Can this realy be true? An ape which lives in the jungle known to kill lions that live on the plains - got to be a hoax....
If we found something interesting it would attract more investment. People would be more interested in conserving it.
That can't help but make me skeptical -- these people have a compelling reason to hype these reports in order to encourage conservation and protection of the area.
It would be pretty interesting if it's true, however -- my guess would be that a large animal capable of avoiding detection for so long in well-explored areas would be interestingly intelligent...
Disclaimer: I work for a company, but I don't speak for them.
Its nothing more than sensationalist press...
The apes do exist but they are simply chimpansees. According to collected DNA not even a new subspecies but part of the 'schweinfurthii' family.
They just get larger then most chimps, which is not totally uncommon.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
In either case, primates aren't discovered every day
I discover primates every day! Why, just today, I discovered a bus full of them. They made incessant noises and smelled funny, but they were indisputably primates. However, when I tried to mimic one of their mating rituals, I was physically assaulted, a very disappointing turn of events for science.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Quick! Capture one so we can pit it against a silverback in an offshore knife fight!
Same category as the 39 foot python I think.
d _3 355000/3355089.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsi
These apes have not been 'discovered', they have simply been newly categorised. The idea that they have never been seen before is a nice idea but nonsense.
We may not like to think it, but the world is a small place now. There are no really remote places anymore and the idea that there are big animals roaming around somewhere unseen and undiscovered is a romantic notion which might be reassuring but can't hide the simple sad truth that the number of species is diminishing daily as we trash the planet.
I'm sorry, but your ( and my ) unrelenting consumption is killing off wildlife apace. Don't let stories like this one make you think otherwise.
Chimpanzee's do employ natural objects in order to get maggots in trees. I just want to know, how do these apes kill lions? Do they use stones? Jaws of animals? Sure they can probably use their fists, but if they used tools, well it'd certainly be something noteworthy.
Well, it would have made the day of the gorilla (gorilless?). Chimps are better hung than Gorillas.
I find it rather worrying that I know this.
_O_
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Try here.
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Care to indicate a source for this information? My own searches on the net show nearly identical stories last year (as we had here), though they said DNA was being tested. I was unable to find results on those tests. It was quite curious. -Drachasor
So, these chimps are the equivalent of the people from the Norse region?
If you look at humanity, you find a huge range of adult sizes along with a wide range of colorations. As closely related as apes are, I'd expect the same.
I don't read AC A human right
Most apes are curious creatures , the ones which are more intelligent are more cautious observers than curious imitators.
A strange creature that walks on two feet, carries a metal paddle that kills , and kills adult elephants is a creature to be afraid of (oh, I'm talking about the average african explorer).
Truthfully speaking , any sufficently intelligent species which closely observes humans in actions have everything to be afraid of them . Lions are comparitively innocous compared to a human . Even tigers turn tail and run from humans looking at them (or relatively good facsimilies of a face).
It takes brains, learning and experience to figure that out .Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
http://karlammann.com/bondo.html They printed the phylogenetic tree as well as wrote up the findings. I lazily skimmed the text but the phylogenetic tree makes it look not that exciting. A new subspecies but not very diverse from other known species. Enjoy~
Video
for the faint at heart, the link contains a lot of pictures, among them a rather disturbing picture of a semi decapitated ape with a lot of blood. Given how human they look, it might not be suitable for all.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
A dutch news site:+ 4257491+19433379
http://www.vpro.nl/wetenschap/index.shtml?3626936
On the left side you can see some photos and a family tree. The yellow spots are where the DNA samples fitted in the tree.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Which would also be the logical conclusion from their behavior. Despite the stereotypes, male chimps are considerably more violent than gorillas, which are generally pretty laid-back if they're not threatened. If a female gorilla came anywhere near a troop of chimps, the males would most likely go ape-shit (pardon the pun) and chase her away. A lone female chimp would probably have a much better chance at approaching a group of gorillas.
They don't "just get larger than most chimps", the articles state that while they are chimps from a specific family, their behavioural and "nesting" traits are a variation on both gorilla and chimp traits.
That's neither sensationalist nor is it "totally common".
--
The last digit of pi is four.
Pictures here: here
http://www.welton.it/davidw/
They just get larger then most chimps, which is not totally uncommon.
In fact about half of all chimps are larger than most chimps!
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -Aldous Huxley
It's interesting how the Animal Planet and Telegraph stories differ to the point of contradicting each other. Animal Planet makes these animals sound docile and peaceful, and only make a single mention about killing lions :
tales that the forests were inhabited by large ferocious apes that could kill lions.
The BBC also only makes one mention about killing lions:
capable of killing lions.
There's a big difference between "capable" and "does". Elephants can kill lions too, but that doesn't make them "Lion Killers", which is how the Telegraph article refers to these chimp-apes:
known to locals as the "lion killer"
Locals told him about giant apes with a reputation for killing lions, New Scientist magazine reports today.
The Telegraph portraits them as violent and aggressive:
The creatures are far larger and more aggressive than normal chimpanzees
they are unusually aggressive chimps
While Animal Planet describes them quite differently:
Unlike gorillas, which invariably charge when they see a threat, these apes turn around and silently slip away into the forest when encountered, Ammann said.
That doesn't sound too aggressive to me, for an animal that is supposed to go around killing lions for sport. Why for sport? Because they obviously don't eat them, according to Animal Planet:
Feces recovered from the nest sites indicated an animal with a diet rich in fruit, which is typical of chimps.
Rather odd to have such an aggressive and competent killer that doesn't eat meat. Either reporters are putting a big spin on this, or researches are trying to pique as much interest as possible to raise funding.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
You're absolutely right, the standard mitochondrial DNA analysis places them in 'schweinfurthii' (which, geographically, they border with).
However, it has been pointed out that mtDNA analyses cannot always distinguish between closely related species, and the answer cannot be definitively known until a a full nuclear DNA analysis is performed.
Also, it's worth nothing that, whilst chimps can grow to various sizes, these apes are considerably larger than even the largest chimp on record, and their behaviour is substantially different from typical chimp behaviour
Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
Even the reports on the behaviour are overstated:
-only the males nest on the ground, females nest in the trees. And the simple explanation is that they are to heavy to have good support in a tree.
-The nests are not like gorilla's (besides the fact that they also don't sleep in trees) The chimps nest in moist places, gorillas hate water and would never do that.
(I don't sleep in a tree, does that make me half-gorilla?)
-They don't howl at the moon, but are simply more vocal on moon lit nights.
They might be interesting because of there (size related) behaviour but the articles are definitly based on some sensationalist pseudo scientists.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
There is a video of this Giant Ape here
Remember, folks this is the same part of the world where they have their own version of the Lock Ness Monster, Mokele Mbembe. As a Peace Corps volunteer in Congo-Brazzaville, I heard a lot about it. National Geographic couldn't get guides to take them into the swampy area northwest of the Congo river once the guides heard what they were looking for.
Mokele Mbembe is reported to kill elephants. As to the whole killing a planes lion when this is a jungle ape, lions and elephants live in forested areas as well.
Kwyjibo
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
either you're a troll or just really, really dim. You don't actually have to kill someone/something to get enough material of them for a dna analysis...it's just that you need to convince the ape to open wide while you scrape the inside of its mouth with a cotton swab. Oh wait, we have stun guns these day...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
I remember watching a show that showcased the strength of chimps. Even though they're small, about the size of a kid, they are tremendously strong. Their arms don't look too muscular, but they're able to easily lift themselves up using one arm, and they can do it all day.
I also saw a video where they trained a chimp to do the bench press, and it benched something like 600 lbs.
They also showed chimps fighting lower forms of monkeys, and these chimps corned a monkey in a tree, and 2 chimps grabbed the arms of the monkey and ripped its body in half.
So your plan is, you want to use a short range stun gun designed to briefly knock out a human, use it on an unknown species of ape which hunts in packs and may or may not be able to kill lions with its bare hands. And then you're going to stick your hands in it's mouth while it's 'stunned'.
Can't say I'm surprised no one has implemented your plan.
-operate an "Etch-a-Sketch"?
-paddle in a canoe
-do the samba
-remove hanging chads
Who is it who said:
"Given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of chimpanzies, eventually you will get 'War and Peace'"?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The Stevus Ballmerus.
Damce. monkey boy, dance!
(read this a humorous junk science...)
Like Vulcans, THIS particular ape has a superprocessor gland which reprocesses fecal matter extremely efficiently. There is efficacy to this this modality. By extraction the most of the moisture, the condensed, ambient-temperature-dried fecal matter is less of a matter for this beast. Being a water-carrying creature, it has no need for humps on its back or breasts, as it can shed the containers as necessary.
Flight or Fight is probably not an issue for this king of the jungle, for if it can take down a full-sized, adult lion, it probably has no need to dump its bowels in one instance while running.
Possibly, the pellets can serve as "bread crumbs" for its own kind to keep up, or as a "bait and switch" lure for its prey. Prey dumb enough to follow THAT shit is prey that better pray.
By exploiting this quirk in nature, the whacky of presidents can authorize expenditures in the effort to have fewer sleepless nights "wond'rin' hwo to pertekt da 'merikun peep-hole"...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Just as long as I don't hear the word Humanzee brought up, I think I'll keep reading. Whoever would volunteer for that experiment is both a hero to genetic science and a complete and utter freak, and guess which of those two will be remembered most fifty years from now?
Don't leave out artificial insemination when considering lab creation of a chip/human hybrid. (And there are more than enough people who would do such things to creat an occasional hybrid "in the wild".) The main problem with a human/chimp "natural coupling" (other than cross-fertility) would be the hazard to the human partner, due to the extreme strength of the chimp. (This would make completion unlikely without an extremely cooperative or bound chimp, despite a possible plethora of perverts who might be willing to try.)
A gorilla/chimp or human/chimp hybrid that tended to mule out would explain the rarity of sightings. And a human/chimp hybrid might well become much larger and stronger than either parent, due to the hybrid vigor phenomenon.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Because apes possess many of the characteristics that we consider morally important, and should be extended some basic legal and ethical rights, like not being arbitrarily killed.
Geez. Jump right to killing one, not even considering a tranquilizer dart and a blood sample?
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
APES and other Animals:
APES:
-Maybe these bad boys cross-bred with the Apes of India... and supposing this, she hollers, "Yoni-Yoni-Yoni-Yoni.... kamasalila-saspanda..."
--Maybe they wanted "dark meat" that day, rib-less and skinless?
OTHER ANIMALS:
As for "as everyone that hunted once in their life knows, wild animals run like hell at the sight of humans, no matter how 'dangerous' the animals are, like tigers, lions and whatnot.."
Tell that to a co-worker of mine. He told me in that once in his younger days he and friends went hunting.
A wild pig appeared and his "Mr.-I'm-Tough" friend confidently takes aim and BLAST! Off goes some pig skin.
Pig keeps charging.
Friends head for the trees.
BLAM! off goes more skin, and a chunk of flesh.
Wild pig keeps charging.
Shooter furiously reloads. BLAM!
Off goes a chunk of pig eye. Pig keeps coming.
Shotgun jams or is ammoless.
Shooter drops shotgun and does what friends did: hauls ass into the neares climbable tree and stays there.
Pig rams tree, squealing, snorting, gushing blood a few minutes or longer. Eventually it dies from bleeding to death more than from that choice of shotgun used for hunting.
Not ALL animals fear and run from humans. Nor should they. They SHOULD chomp, rip or slas our encroaching asses at least ONCE in a while, right? Right!
I don't hunt, on land or at sea, but if I did, I'd only dive if I had a razor-festooned and cyanid-loaded, multi-layer suit that would poison the creature that ate me. I may dive to take pics, but not take a stabe at animal. They do what they have to do to eat. I'll do what I have to do to not be dessert, or deserted.
Maybe a Bruce-Dern-/Black Sunday-like black box filled with needels could "fleschette" an attacking shark and defuse that attack/charge. But, woe be unta any diving partners on the wrong side of the firing line...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
If X is the new Y, and Y is "X is the new Y", solve for X.
"Hold it bob, we can see your watch."
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Any time an animal is about to become extinct, the environmentalists should convince the restaurant industry that the animal tastes good. That way, the evil corporations would be "tricked" into funding breeding programs. They would have a vested business interest in ensuring the species' survival. Are chickens or cows going to be extinct any time soon? I, for one, am looking forward to a McChimp Deluxe or Gorilla Whopper. Long live the primates. Now pass the A1 sauce.