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Indymedia Servers Given Back
NW writes "According to a post on Indymedia Argentina the two Indymedia servers seized earlier by the FBI are in the process of being returned: "A Rackspace employee stated, "I was just told that the court order is being complied with and your servers in London will be online at 5pm GMT. I will pass along anymore information that becomes available and that I am allowed to." It has been verified that the returned hard-drives are the originals, but the circumstances of the seizure still remain unclear: who took them, why were they taken, and under which court order? Indymedia is not aware as to whether Rackspace is still under gag order.
The hard-drives will be treated as "hacked" (compromised) and as a result there will be delays in restoring the sites that are still down."" Here's our previous coverage on this.
Does anyone know why the hell they seized them in the first place?
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The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator
I would be treating the entire computer as hacked... not just the hard drive.
Who knows what kind of traffic / key loggers have been installed.
(And yes, I realize that a hardware key logger is next to useless on a headless server.)
The wire reports last week (sorry, no link at the moment) had an FBI spokesperson who said they were acting at the request of the Swiss and Italian governments, under the terms of a law-enforcement-cooperation treaty. Apparently the FBI was involved because Rackspace is a US company.
The only likely explanation for why those governments would be interested that has surfaced so far is that Indymedia posted some photographs that were taken of undercover police officers who were photographing demonstrators (the demonstrators photographed their photographers, as it were). Apparently this is illegal in Europe?
It's all very murky, in any case.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I heard the real reason the machines were seized was because they hosted goatse.cx.
Apparently the FBI agents decided that they, and GWB had been tricked one too many times
Who knows what is going on at Rackspace as they aren't talking. I'd be finding a new hardware host ASAP.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Indymedia is not aware as to whether Rackspace is still under gag order.
I would tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
I've never heard of someone getting back confiscated items.
Is there any obligation for them to do this, or is it media exposure at this point?
...according to this and this, there was a request from the Italian and Swiss governments under a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty to the United States (since the hosting provider was a US company). The "FBI" did not physically "seize" the drives, since the FBI does not have jurisdiction in the UK, though it appears that Rackspace voluntarily responded to the US subpoena, which was generated as a matter of course under the MLA treaty.
I wonder what was on the disks. I imagine the FBI could have gotten ip logs, password lists, email lists archives...there's a heap of things that could have been on there that points to names and addresses of people who the state would like to harrass..
We all know that the current world order is tending towards fascism, this incident is just another step along that path.
The FBI loves intimidation, and it appears that is what happened here too. I wish the FBI would offer apologies and make some sort of serious restitution every time they confiscate stuff and then realize they don't want to prosecute. They need some sort of penalty for raids that prove unwarranted. It is a form of terrorism, I think. "If you run afoul of us, even maybe violate copyrights, we will raid your house, and take your stuff."
xyzzy - operation overload.
Jebba, the guy with the contract with Rackspace has a load more info about this whole affair in his blog.
If this had been your site, there probably would have been no media outcry. Your site would still be down, and your drives in an evidence locker with no likelihood of return. When people say "Free speech has consequences," this is the kind of thing they're talking about. Cast a vote against the Ashcroft administration and send a check to the EFF.
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What kind of Justice System raids people property and keeps silent?! I can hardly imagine that the indy-servers are a threat to anyones national security? Whatever happend to the freedom of expression or the freedom of the press?!
This posting seems rather silly. The FBI never seized the hard drives to begin with, but accompanied the British authorities on the raid to sieze the drives, apparently to be passed onto to Swiss authorities.
And second of all, why was IndyMedia waiting for the return of the drives before restoring sites? Didn't they have backups? Now they make a big deal about how they are treating the drives as "compromised". Whey they didn't just buy new drives the day of raid, and restore the backup? Clearly, they don't have a backup, because now they have to do a selective copy of sites from "compromised" disks onto presumable new disks.
FBI: Bend over
Rackspace: *whimper* ok...
Translated (roughly, so pardon any mistakes) from the News section of the Indymedia homepage:
"In the morning of Thursday 7 of October, American autorities delivered a federal order to Rackspace (Indymedias' provider, with offices in London and USA), requiring the surrender off Indymedias' web servers to the demmanding agency. According to what was said to Indymedia volunteers, Rackspace stated that "they couldn't give Indymedia more information respecting the order". ISPs have received orders to stand quiet in similar situtations in which orders were given not to keep the involved parts informed on what was going on.
Indymedia has not clear how and why a server outside American jurisdiction no can be requised by American autorithies.
At the same time, an aditional server was disconnected at Rackspace; that server provided streaming radio for some emitters, BLAG (linux distribution), and quite a few more sites.
In the last months numerous attacks to independant media have been seen being perpetrated by the USA federal government. In August, the secret service used a jurisdictional requirement in an attempt to disband New Yorks' CMI before the RNC, attempting to obtain IP registers in USA and Holland. The past month the FCC dismantled several American radio emtitters. Two weeks earlier the FBI requested that Indymedia deleted a story on the Nantes CMI who had the picture of some Swedish secret police officer and CMI volunteers were visited by the FBI to inquire on the same issue. Meanwhile, Indymedia and other organizations had success with their victories against, f.ex., Diebold and the Patriot Act. Today, nevertheless, American authorities have disconnected CMIs all oer the world.
The list of affected CMIs include:
Italy, Brasil, Uruguay, England, Andorra, Polonia, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille , Euskal Herria (País vasco), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen Belgrado, Portugal, Praga, Galicia..."
http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2004_10.php#00200 6
Indymedia Servers Mysteriously Reappear, But Questions RemainSan Francisco, CA - Rackspace Managed Hosting, the San Antonio-based company that manages two Indymedia servers seized by the US government last Thursday, said yesterday that the servers have been returned and are now available to go back online. Immediate access to the servers, which host Indymedia's Internet radio station and more than 20 Indymedia websites, will be delayed so that the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) can ensure that the servers are secure and take steps to preserve evidence for future legal action.
Now that the servers have been returned, the question still remains: who took them, and under what authority? Citing a gag order, Rackspace would not comment on what had happened both in the original seizure of the servers or their return. All that is known at this point is that the subpoena that resulted in the seizure was issued at the request of a foreign government, most likely with the assistance of the United States Attorney's Office in San Antonio. Although initial reports suggested that the FBI had taken the servers, the FBI has now denied any involvement.
The seizure, which silenced numerous political news websites for several days, is clearly a violation of the First Amendment. "Secret orders silencing US media should be beyond the realm of possibility in a country that believes in freedom of speech," said EFF staff attorney Kurt Opsahl. "EFF was founded with the Steve Jackson Games case fourteen years ago, and at that time we established that seizing entire servers because of a claim about some pieces of information on them is blatantly illegal and improper. It appears the government forgot this basic rule, and we will need to remind them."
EFF will take legal action to find out what really happened to Indymedia's servers and ensure that Internet media are protected from egregious First Amendment violations like this in the future.
Indymedia wouldn't know. They'd obtain a wiretap warrant, and then tap what they wanted (be it a keyboard, the network connection, etc). Works just like a phone tap in that the party being tapped never knows about it. That's the idea, really. You want them going about their normal bussiness, unaware they are being watched so you can catch them doing something illegal. If they susprect you are watching them, it doesn't do much good. A mobster isn't going to call in a hit on someone on a phone they suspect to be tapped.
It would seem that what they wanted was the data on the disks. I'm not saying they shouldn't give it a once over but really, if that was the case, it would be done in secret. They don't raid the house of a mafia member, take all their phones, and then hand them back a couple days later with bugs in them. They stick a bug on the line when no one is looking.
And will probabably be modded down... so I dont care...
But the more I read about stuff like this, the more that I realise that we need to change the way our governments operate. They have TOO much power, and the do things that sould be illegal under the guise of saftey
I truely think that there needs to be a shift in world power, I think that if given enough room to breathe people would make the right decision, and if we (americans) would quit putting our nose where it doesn't belong, that 9/11 would not have happened.
It's only rough, so sorry for any mistakes.
"On the morning of Thursday the 7th of October, U.S. authorities delivered a federal order to Rackspace (Indymedia's provider, whose offices are in London and USA), requiring the surrender of Indymedias' web servers to the demanding agency. According to what was said to Indymedia volunteers, Rackspace stated that "they couldn't give Indymedia more information respecting the order." ISPs have received orders to stand quiet in similar situtations in which orders were given not to keep the involved parts informed on what was going on.
Indymedia has not been clear as to how and why a server outside American jurisdiction can be requested by American authorities.
At the same time, an additional server was disconnected at Rackspace; that server provided streaming radio for some emitters, BLAG (a Linux distribution), and quite a few more sites.
In the last months numerous attacks to independant media have been seen being perpetrated by the U.S. federal government. In August, the secret service used a jurisdictional requirement in an attempt to disband New York's CMI before the RNC, attempting to obtain IP registers in USA and Holland. The past month the FCC dismantled several American radio emtitters. Two weeks earlier the FBI requested that Indymedia delete a story on the Nantes CMI who had the picture of some Swedish secret police officer and CMI volunteers were visited by the FBI to inquire on the same issue. Meanwhile, Indymedia and other organizations had success with their victories against FedEx, Diebold and the Patriot Act. Today, nevertheless, American authorities have disconnected CMIs all over the globe.
The list of affected CMIs include: Italy, Brasil, Uruguay, England, Andorra, Polonia, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille , Euskal Herria (País vasco), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen Belgrado, Portugal, Praga and Galicia"
Modded ... ... ...
Offtopic
Lame
You mean seeing it for the first time from a first-person perspective, right?
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They have made a pigs breakfast at everything from The economy, environment, egual rights, Civil Liberties.
Not one fucking thing have they managed to succed in. Not ONE.
Help fight continental drift.
From what I've read, yes, it's a crime under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. But the current administration doesn't appear to be doing much to track down who first leaked Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA secret agent. Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife was exposed by columnist Robert Novak when Novak wrote:
To quell the knee-jerk duopoly partisans: I'm not saying a Kerry administration would do better here. I have no idea what a Kerry administration would do about this. Speaking out against the actions of one party or one administration is not implicit support for any other party or independent candidate.
Digital Citizen
What I'd like to know is why Indymedia still trusts Rackspace with its hosting. If my colo was refusing to tell me what's going on in a situation like this, I would think about moving my servers elsewhere, preferably overseas. I realize Rackspace is probably under a gag order, but frankly that wouldn't make me feel much better.
I made a PHP/MySQL library that prevents SQL injection & makes coding easier!
My understanding from the original article is that a court order was presented in the US to an international firm, which then complied and turned over servers in another country, to officials in that country.
Does this scare anyone else?
Could firms use this precident setting situation & other crazy recent laws (DMCA for example) to force hosting companies to turn over servers located in other countries?
Wasn't there a law passed not too long ago that gave the government the power to request information contained within many types of corporate databases (banking, insurance, car loan, etc)? Leverage that law with this case, and the current level of internationalization of many firms, and the government can get information about anyone, from just about anywhere.
Or perhapps I am wearing the tinfoil hat too tightly...
paul reinheimer
This happened in The United Kingdom, and at the request of another European nation. The FBI participated only as a formality, they do in all cases of US companies on foreign soil when it's requested.
Seems to me that if there is anything that needs protesting it's Interpol and the treaties that allow such a thing to exist whereby one nation can get a court order to get things in another nation from a company of a third nation. That is, if you think that sort of thing is bad.
There are plenty of arguments against Ashcroft, this isn't one of them. This is the FBI doing diplomatic legwork in response to a foreign request. This isn't new, it just usually doesn't make the news. Law enforcement in many nations cooperates quite tightly. Have a look at Interpol (www.interpol.int). It's largely based in Europe, but exists all over the globe to foster the cooperation of police forces across national boundries.
As emotionally convincing as that might sound, it's still censorship. "Hate" is not illegal.
...Giving intelligent hard drives human status, I think.
I love it when the tinfoil hats birgade comes out on slashdot, its better than TV.
Ok, just to turn the paranoia knob down ten notches here, why would the fbi/cia/M5/etc. bother to try to install key or traffic loggers? They have already demonstraited that they can literally own the box any damn time they want it. In addition, they could just slap a copy of carnivor (or whatever passes for it in Europe) on the ISP trunks, and read anything they want, and no ammount of reformatting or scanning would detect it.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Your argument is so utterly powerful that I am stunned by the magnitude of its force. Your rhetoric is sublime and your mastery of the facts unassailable. I think you have single handedly managed to convince twenty thousand diehard Bush voters to swing the other way.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
First thing I'd do if I was indymedia was have those drives replaced...possibly the whole box if possible. Secondly I'd switch server companies entirley to prevent any sort of "tapping" through another host (man in the middle) The patriot act, the one thing I completley disagree with President Bush on. Gotta love it.
Depends where you live...
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The issue of "Hate speech" is a vexed one. On the one hand, we (most decent humans) don't want vicious racist comments to be made. On the other hand:
1)Free speech is far too important a principle to censor.
2)Who gets to determine precisely what is offensive?
3)Who guards the guards ("quis custodet custodes ipsos")
4)Most importantly, if we engage in dialog with racists, we will win, and demonstrate the flaws in their arguments. If we do not engage, they can rant unopposed. If we drive them out of politics, then instead of political activism, a radical fringe emerges, becoming terrorists.
Lastly, if this were really the issue, why the gag order?
I know it's childish I am just letting out steam.
Help fight continental drift.
If this is a US government initutive, remember that they have been holding poeple in a convenient lawless zone in Cuba for three years without laying charges. Due process can be ignored in more and more situations.
In forensices cases involving hard drives the drives are copied bit by bit to an image file. That image file is then mounted, data recovery is run, and then the drive is searched. Here are some common type Q's. (Not my company... best link I could find) http://www.dminfo.com/faqs.html
You might also want to talk to the people on irc.indymedia.org , #blag, Jebba hangs out there _ALOT_ (he's there right now). Don't forget blag linux lost data too, including their Repo's, their wiki, their bugzilla, and alot more. I hope IndyMedia and blag get their stuff back.
s.clementmonkey@sympatico.ca, remove the 'monkey'.
If the search of an ISP's drives is going to take more than a few hours, I believe it's standard procedure to seize the drives, copy them, and return them. I think the only time limitation is up to whoever signs the warrant. Parent is correct. They could easily just carnivore the upstream, and if they really needed to get at the server for traffic analysis, they'd just write themselves a warrant and do a black bag job per the PATRIOT Act Sec. 215. Why would you raid a place and alert the world to your presence if the goal is to monitor ongoing traffic? I don't have a lot of confidence in our government, but they aren't that stupid. (BTW, Section 215 does not sunset... ever! Ahhh crap, does that mean I'm now a rambling paranoid too...)
you had me at #!
Unless you know Swedish law (assuming Sweden did orignate the request) don't assume things. It might be perfectly legal for police to Sweden to intimidate people in this fashion, and illegal for protestors to respond by taking pictures and publishing them.
Remember that the world does NOT subscribe to the American idea of freedom and democracy. There are rights we have in the US that you do not in other free countries, and rights they have that we do not.
So don't apply an American legal viewpoint to it.
Keep America Safe. Bush Cheney 2004.
Long afterwards, a judge found the entire raid on the IMC headquarters had been a complete fabrication. The police had planted Molotov cocktails, a sledgehammer, knives etc. in the building. As for agent provocateurs, there is no doubt these were operating in Italy--though they were probably oldtime fascist sympathizers, not undercover cops (though in Italy, the line is blurred).
When you say how many stories has IMC broken, I think you miss the point. How many stories has Slashdot "broken"--and by this I think you mean stories that have made it into national and international media? IMC, like Slashdot, is community media, and serves to communicate information and build connections between those who use it. Thanks to IMC, I was in North America yet I knew what was happening to comrades in Italy.
IMC keeps the flow of information open because it has an open posting policy. With more and more online newspapers disappearing behind subscription walls, often times the only way an important article can released into the wild is by posting on IMC. More "legit" sites won't post entire articles that covered by copyright, say stories on E-Voting from the New York Times or Washington Post. Google hits an IMC site once, and that article is forever cached in its entirety.
This also begs the question, what important stories has the New York Times broken recently? It all seems to be happening at the New Yorker with Seymour Hersh...
I live in the SF bay area. "Letting out steam" at Bush is the regional pasttime. You would think I would be used to it by now, but I'm not. It's so fucking annoying I want to scream.
Once, just one, would you guys please stop "letting out steam" and put forth a cogent, rational and CALM argument for your side? You're like lemmings after the nuke button was pushed: quivering in rage until you pop. For the life of my I couldn't tell you what Kerry stands for, because his "supporters" are too busy slamming Bush to tell me anything at all about Kerry.
"Duh! He's not Bush, isn't that good enough for you!"
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is an excerpt from a previous message he received from Rackspace, which seems to be about something different. I find the text very troubling. (The text is taken from here)
Rackspace said:
Mon Oct 4 07:30:53 2004
Hello,
I am sorry for the tone of the ticket you referenced. However, we are at the mercy of the DMCA as it is written. As a hosting provider, once we have received a DMCA notification, we are responsible for removing the offending material regardless of the merit of the complaint. In fact, we are not even to look into the merits of the complaint. We are only to act to remove the offending material as quickly as possible. If we fail to remove the material, we can be held liable for damages.
Essentially, they're saying that while he may well be correct that his material doesn't infringe any copyrights, Rackspace is legally obliged to remove it immediately.
I've long known that the DMCA was a terrible law. I didn't know it went quite this far, though.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
And they are probably good examples of how a little hate speech can go a long way...
We are seeing the same thing today in Arab countries where childrens minds are poisoned and the result is terrorists.
As for free speech, it's interesting to note how someone modded my earlier post and its parents down as flamebait rather than responding, presumably because they love Indymedia and loath fair criticism of it...
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
He doesn't have to really "stand" for anything - even plain old boring conscientious stewardship of the duties of the Presidency would place him miles above Bush in terms of qualifications & stature.
What does Bush stand for? You have to ignore what Bush _says_ he stands for, because what he says & what he does are pretty much disconnected. So what do his actions show that he stands for? Preemptive unilateral military action? Corporate welfare? Destruction of the social state?
i'd treat the entire server as compromised.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Are they saying that if I sent slashdot this letter that slashdot would have to immediately take themselves off-line? What?
Dear slashdot.
I do not like this site. Please take it down immediately.
Sincerely,
Dewey Cheetam & Howe Law Firm
My other car is first.
I generally think that the type of people Indy Media attracts are somewhat nutty anarchists and I agree with very little that they say. That being said, I don't care if the website's for Indy Media, neo-nazi's, abortion clinic bombers, pro-choice activists, or anything else, something like this should *not* happen. If they had been handed a proper government suppena saying exactly why the servers were being taken and what law was being violated I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it and Indy Media could fight the seizure through the normal legal chanels. However, any sort of secret, gag-ordered operation where things (and next people?) simply dissappear with no explenation sounds dangerously close to most dictatorships.
I didn't see Fascist, Nazi or Hitler in the post once. That's reasoned debate for both sides these days.
A blog about stuff.
The investigation you refer to began almost a year ago. It is not an independent investigation. The call to save evidence in the case began days after the scandal first broke allowing time to destroy evidence. So far we still don't know exactly who should be brought to justice for first leaking the information. I have a hard time believing an independent investigation will materialize any time soon but by now so much time has passed I would wonder how effective one could be.
Months ago there were follow-ups to hearings on rapes within the military. C-SPAN covered the hearings and in so doing brought some public attention to the issue. This awareness did not stop the rapes nor institute policy that will lead to institutional change. As a result of no clear leadership change or change in policy which places rapists on trial and brings them to justice regardless of rank, I think it's safe to say that rapes will continue to occur within the US military.
The June 2003 FCC meeting (where the FCC voted to further loosen media ownership caps) was publicized. A broad spectrum of political groups followed the issue and the FCC received more feedback than ever before (virtually all opposing raising the caps). A court sent the FCC's ruling back to them for revisions but public's focus on this issue has largely evaporated. Some corporate media outlets still operate in violation of the current limit on media ownership.
Big public hearings don't in themselves mean that the underlying system is changing. Sometimes the hearings give the impression of change where no significant change occurs.
Digital Citizen
...we've got a few clients who host with rackspace, but after this we've recommended that they find another provider.
Rackspace have come out of this with egg on their faces and I seriously hope that it hurts their business big-time. I also hope that they will be compensating indymedia and all the other sites hosted on those servers for the lost time, aggrivation and general shittyness of the whole thing.
I am NaN
Sweden does is NOT the same country as Switzerland. In sweden you need a "search warrant" to seize harddrives, and for that you need some "proof" of illegal activity, and some court order, etc - this is not trivial to get.
But then again, who knows what is required after all these new anti-terrorism laws from USA that is imposed on every other country??
Given that most of the news of this story was reported through Indy Media, and given the low credibiltiy to begin with, it's entirely likely we aren't getting the 'whole story' versus another chance for looney 'activists' to condemn the poh-leese etc.
As for being handed a subpoena etc, I think you need to think harder about how law-enforcement works. The police don't knock on a drug-dealers house and say "umm...It's the Police, may we come in?" and give the perp a chance to flush the evidence (reformat drives). They kick in the door, capture evidence and let the courts sort it out.
I also think you need to think harder about dictatorships before waving such comparisons about.
It's a shame that the site referenced in the grandparent was considered flame-bait.
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Realistically IF you have data you dont want hidden or read then dont put it on the net.. If you have information that you want everyone to know and see mirror it around the internet as many times as you can.. There is NO way that once information is on the internet and about that the FBI or any gov can remove it from the net.
It has been verified that the returned hard-drives are the originals ... The hard-drives will be treated as "hacked" (compromised)
That's an interesting aspect. It might be worth not re-formatting the drives, but rather investigate whether any spyware has been installed (or maybe data modified), using the same forensic methods that law enforcement agencies use.
The hallmark of democracy is that state powers are also controlled themselves, by institutions and its citizens.
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FROM:
http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/
EFF has contacted the FBI to demand Indymedia's illegally seized servers be returned and is preparing for legal action in the event that negotiations with the FBI fail. EFF is also calling on Rackspace to challenge the government's illegal seizure. "If Rackspace stands behind its claim of providing 'Fanatical Support' to its customers, it will go to bat for Indymedia-one of its biggest customers-and demand that the FBI return the seized Internet servers," said Kurt Opsahl, EFF staff attorney. "Rackspace should also fight for its own rights and challenge the gag order preventing it from sharing its side of the story." A federal court in New York City recently found a similar gag order unconstitutional in Doe v. Ashcroft, the ACLU's challenge to a secret PATRIOT Act subpoena served against an Internet service provider.
"The FBI can't pull the plug on more than 20 news websites - our modern printing presses - based on a secret proceeding at the request of a foreign government. This is a flagrant violation of the First Amendment," said Kevin Bankston, EFF attorney and Equal Justice Works/Bruce J. Ennis Fellow. "As far as the Constitution is concerned, Indymedia has the same rights as any other news publisher. The government can't shut down the New York Times, and it can't shut down Indymedia."
When I first heard of the story, I looked for mirrors of what is supposed to be the incriminating site.
It contains four pictures of two guys who are supposedly undercover policemen. The photos have _not_ been redacted.
I guess it doesn't hurt to post the short text that came with it. But my french is a little rusty and the automatic tranlators do a poor job on this:
GENÈVE post-G8 : Vidéos, photos et témoignages ; tout est bon pour remonter la piste des casseurs. Un travail minutieux poursuivi aujourd'hui par deux inspecteurs, et qui a conduit à 200 arrestations à ce jour.
La cellule G8 avait pourtant été dissoute en décembre 2003. Elle a repris du service, en plus petit : deux inspecteurs.
Ces inspecteurs visionnent des films et photos reçu par des balancent et des collègues.
Ils viennent aux manifs sur Genève où ils pensent retrouver des "casseurs"
De plus ils prennent de nouvelles photos afin peut être de constituer une bande de données de photos d'activistes suceptibles d'être les futures casseurs des futures émeutes Genevoises.
Comme le dit l'un des 2 inspecteurs : J'ai vu deux de mes collègues se faire lyncher pendant les manifs anti-OMC, en 1998, raconte un inspecteur. Je ne l'oublierai jamais.
Peut etre qu'il y a d'autres choses que cet inspecteur n'obliera jamais ! Car il n'y a pas que le Carpacio comme plat qui se mange froid !
Maybe apologies, but if you tack on any serious restitution as a matter of course, agents will go out of their way to make charges stick, whatever the truth is. It's like any other job: You fudge your stats to make yourself look better than you really are. Besides, if they do anything too blantently evil, I'm pretty sure their are laws to cover that.
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That generally happens in places where rhetoric can build on actual negative conditions in people's lives. Remove those conditions, and the rhetoric appears quite empty and has a much smaller effect. You're using a flawed argument to show that terrorism is a reason for censorship. You were modded down because most other people on slashdot realize this.
Let's not kid ourselves here folks. The rest of the world doesn't hate us because we stick our nose in their politics. Joe average (or Mohammad Average? whatever) doesn't give a flying rats ass so long as he's got food, family, and something to do with himself. People don't blow themselves because they're cheesed off over a little meddling. They do so because they're poor, destitute and above all hopelessly miserable (read that again, I meant it literally. These poeple have no hope).
This is largely our fault folks. Iraq has a large supply of the most valuable substance on earth (oil), and they've got a large supply of hopelessly poor in spite of it all. 9/11's what your SUVs and 50's gas guzzlers have bought you. If you don't like it, too bad. The die is cast. Yeah, we could all start using public transport and ultra fuel effecient cars. But if you think for a momement that the car/oil companies'll let that happen (or the American Public is smart enough to force it), you're just deluded. Period. Fasten up for a bumpy ride, it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.
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If my neighboor is someone I intensly dislike and vica-versa. Would it be wise to smash down his door and get him out of bed to kick his arse? You are right about the issue, it is bigger than Bush and goes way back. He is not the first leader too lack wisdom but he is by far the most powerfull and belives his "Crusade" will be the last.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Your answer says more about your own personality than that of the AC.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
This article about the RNC incident lists another company as thier host provider. Unlike Rackspace they gave the feds the finger, took them to court and won. Did they drop that provider in favour of Rackspace or do they have more than one provider?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I was under the impression sectarian law was created in an attempt to stop people with radically different Morals from killing each other. In reality, "The Law" appears to be procedural documentation on how to silence or erase those who do not agree with the mandated Morals. The US constitution is a good attempt at sectarian law. Could this be why Bush is trying to weaken it by his proposal to grant states the right to "make thier own interpretation".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
The Register covers this in more detail, stating that parliamentary questions have been tabled asking "what recent discussions [The Home Secretary] has had with US law enforcement agencies concerning the seizure of material from UK-based internet hosting providers; and if he will make a statement."
I'd expect we'll see his evasion^h^h^h^h^h^h^hanswer appearing on the excellent theyworkforyou.com
ooooooh! What does this button do? - DeeDee, Dexters Lab.
"and real democracy"
Really? I wasn't aware of any country in the world that was a democracy. Is everything put to a plebescite?
Or do you elect representatives who vote on issues? That's not a democracy. You can use google, so I'll let you spend 5 minutes figuring out what that form of government is called.
You forget...
The first party to invoke Goodwin's Law automatically loses!
You lose.
check out the indymedia cache of the story that might have some bearing on why Blunkett was so agreeable to pulling them off the net.
How about writing to the service providers of the politicians who voted for the DMCA in the first place alleging copyright violation. See how they like it...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
check out the indymedia cache of the story that might have some bearing on why Blunkett was so agreeable to pulling them off the net.
Yup, and I am dangerously risking my Slashdot Karma by telling everyone that Linux is great, MS is evil, and open source is the way of the future!
No, wait, agreeing with the moderator group-think doesn't cause you to lose karma at all...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Silence, you communist! Your beloved government started the War on Terror--and once we in the Coalition of the Willing finally win it, no one will ever be terrified again, and those sniveling nations that were to afraid to join us will owe us, big time!
Presumably he had to make sure she wasn't about to detonate a bomb.
If the palestinians would stop hiding behind their exploding children he wouldn't have had to finish her off.
The British authorities gave Indymedia all the rights it is guaranteed under the British Constitution. Which, as I'm sure aware, doesn't exist. Brits get only the rights that Her Majesty's Government give to them.
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Yep, Reporters Without Borders has condemned the seizures and has a story about their letter to Mr. Blunkett too.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
I'm curious now. Can you post them? This would also have the consequence that /. might get taken down for a while, so a lot of geeks like myself might have to go out into the scary room with the big blue ceiling--it could be a life-changing experience.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
If you are publicly protesting something, why would you care if the police photograph you? After going through the RNC here in New York last month, I'm now 100% convinced that the Indymedia scene is the most self-satisfied, unproductive gang of agent provocateurs roaming today's political scene. Frankly, it was absurd how they would bait the police by pushing down the police motorcycles and then cry foul when the police would arrest someone who pushed a bike. I've never seen such shameless, two-faced futility in my life. A little intimidation would do those shitheads some good.
I can't lose, it was a joke.
A blog about stuff.
I'll get you next time, Gadget! Next time!
*pounds his fist on his armchair*
*cat hiss*
Mod up responsibly, people. This is rumor, not information.
I was in the incriminated demonstration
There's absolutely no reason to believe you.
On the right side we had peaceful demonstrators (about a million) and on the other a group of about 200 rioteers (the Black Block) helped by some suburb scum
Really? A million? Any way to back that claim up?
The root of Indymedia's problems is that there are photos of some Swiss police agents (with their names and addresses, hehe)
No, not funny. A police officer's job is stressful enough without having his/her house being a target of some asshole or paranoid schizophrenic who think's he's saving the world by harrassing your kids and your home. That's juvenile bullshit.
The root of Indymedia's problems is that there are photos...
Really? Perhaps you could have posted a link to these supposed photos?
It makes me smile though to see the incriminated images have now spread to about 400 mirrors worldwide instead of 2 or 3 sites
Oh really, where are these supposed mirrors?
Our local authorities are going batshit about it, yelling they'll have ALL the servers containing those images seized..
Proof?
This guy may be telling the truth, or he could be making up 95% of this. Unfortunately, Mr. Max Von H.'s post is so lacking in substance that we'll never know whether he's telling the truth or he's making up most of this to gain notoriety.
since the days of Maggie Thatcher, I've often thought that ineffectual government can be alot less damaging that strong leadership. So Kerry doesn't have to do anything, and he'd still be a better leader than Bush.
need a free COBOL editor for Windows?
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/mtoups/nantes/copsi nnantes.htm
even plain old boring conscientious stewardship of the duties of the Presidency would place him miles above Bush in terms of qualifications & stature
So why the hell won't he campaign on that? Why aren't his supporters talking about that? To me that's a pretty damn big reason to consider Kerry, but NO! The Dems have to keep talking about Bush! They could have nominated a nudibranch and the campaign rhetoric would have been identical.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
It will be interesting to see whether I get a reply, and if so what reply I get. The more MPs are asking questions of the Home Office on this issue, the better, so if you're a UK voter, write to your MP. Obviously, don't copy my letter exactly, because the objective is to get them to understand a lot of different people are upset about this one.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
You were modded down because most other people on slashdot realize this.
Hello Anonymous Coward,
So what your saying is I was modded down because someone (one person, not most of Slashdot actually) disagreed with me. So they modded me down because they happened to have some mod points, rather than try and argue and attempt to disprove my point? Rather a weak way to win an argument don't you think? In fact, it means plenty of people won't get to see my argument and make up their own mind... Tell us the one about censorship!
As for pro-terroristic rhetoric building on "actual negative conditions in people's lives" bear in mind the Ethiopians, the Tibetans, the Native Americans, the Australian Aboriginals and any number of massively oppressed, hungry, occupied NON-MUSLIM victims of poverty have NOT taken to suicide bombing or deliberate shooting of children.
The difference, and the reason why is obvious and you are not arguing with what I said, but your own misinterpretation of it. Sorry Anonymous Coward, but hate is a major cause of terrorism (haev a look at what's shown on Arab Television if you don't believe me.
If stopping hate or the incitement of children to kill and murder, leads to a reduction in terror, that's fine by me even if you (anonymous coward) believe it's censorship.
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
You're worried about atomic vs. astronomical time definitions and sub-second accuracy? Damn... just how fast can you hit the Refresh button?
One man's religion is another man's belly-laugh. - LL
You made me giggle; that happens far too little here.
A blog about stuff.
I'm part of Urbana-Champaign Indy Media (http://www.ucimc.org). Thanks for your backhanded support, I guess. There's quite a variety of people in IMC, and some identify themselves as anarchists, socialists, libertarians, etc. I'd probably consider myself a Democrat, though I'm not heavily involved with the party.
I'm sorry that you're unhappy about your post being modded down. The website is an open publishing newswire. As such, the quality of submissions varies widely. Moderators usually remove posts that violate policy, and users can always add comments to challenge or clarify posts. Our local IMC's print group produces a monthly paper, and the articles in there do go through a careful editing process because we care about producing material that is well-written and factually accurate.
"... You're worried about atomic vs. astronomical time definitions and sub-second accuracy? ..."
No, not really. I take issue with it because GMT is really an obsolete time scale. We no longer (and haven't for 30 years) measured time by its definition. So why not give the correct "units" to your time. That is, we measure time by an atomic time scale... so report your time in an atomic time scale (UTC is an atomic time scale).
It is kind of like measuring something in inches and reporting that same number as centimeters with the magnitude of error being the biggest difference. In this example both are measurements of length just like GMT/UTC are measurements of a time scale. Yeah, it is being picky because that doesn't mean squat in our everyday lives.
Have you noticed that today GMT is often used in the context of a time zone in lieu of a time scale? It is an abused time scale indeed. But old public habbits die hard. Just like the public likes to call a measurement of force (ie weight) kilograms ( a unit of mass != force) without the qualifying kilograms-force ( another bastardized thing).
Again, am I just being picky? Well, yeah, if you know the difference. But for those who don't, they go through life "knowing" weight is kilograms and our time is GMT because that is what they hear. And then one day it becomes a source of confusion when actual difference matters or when someone tries to be technically correct but can't because it will confuses the public.
> Really? I wasn't aware of any country in the world that was a democracy. Is everything put to a plebescite (sic)?
Here's a relevant quote:Here's what wikipedia says on "Democracy" versus "republic":Also see the pages on varieties of democracy, representative democracy and republic.
> I took many photos - which are not online at the moment - but will gladly send you some should you request them and prove me you're not working for any government.
What would you consider a sufficient proof?
And while we're at it, would you mind proving that you "are not working for any government"?
> I am spending my Slashdot Karma just to be able to voice my anger at this administration.
>
> They have made a pigs breakfast at everything from The economy, environment, egual rights, Civil Liberties.
>
> Not one fucking thing have they managed to succed in. Not ONE.
Let's look at the moderation:Conclusion: 30% of the moderators cannot distingush facts from opinions.
Duh, I'm a dolt, of course they aren't kept there.
I2P is making progress and works faster and better then Freenet. There is no 'routing' times, as soon as you turn on I2P it works, and fast.
Many of the people who were on Freenet or worked for Freenet are now on I2P. There is cross talk between these two groups as they both have channels on IIP/I2P anonymous chat on freenode.net. Drop on by #I2P , #I2P-Chat or #Freenet to take a look.