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Will Your Next Car Run Windows?
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft is beginning to move into the automotive industry. Their 'Automotive Business Unit' is selling a custom version of Windows CE called Windows Automotive. Microsoft attended a conference in Detroit this week to promote their software."
Great - now I can crash my car even after I've already crashed it.
No more!!!!
Gives a whole new meaning to "SUV" and "crash test"...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
the crash jokes...
The question is, though, do we need such things in our cars? Do we really need cars equipped with "home entertainment systems," if these cars will only be used for trips to the nearest shop or driving to work?
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
I would think Detroit has enough worries about bad perceptions regarding their reliability without adding this to it. There's a reason why it's called "WinCE"
"Wow. Now THAT'S a lot of angry Indians." - Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer
i only drive stick, therefore i'll run linux.
Cogito Eggo Sum, I think therefore I'm a waffle
Please step on brake, gas, and clutch simultaneously to reboot.
Do I have to pay the M$ tax on my car.
Can I opt for a -$100 upgrade and use other certain free OSes ?
Answers in order: probably, and probably not.
sigh.
dave.
You know it's gonna be bad when the windshield turns blue all of a sudden...
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
in their right mind is going to trust their life to Microsoft? Thanks, but I think I'll pass.
Your Windows PC is my other computer.
I really hope that doesn't get too widespread... aren't there Videos on the net about the BMW (with Windows) where you can't close the trunk anymore and other fun things like these? Of course, maybe BMW is to blame here BUT Windows just doesn't have the reputation for reliability that I'd want for an OS in my car... no matter how many licenses M$ has already sold, that does not proof that it's good.
~Squisher
It should be noted that I read recently (sorry no links but maybe others can chime in) that BMW is working with Apple to replace its Windows in Car solution with something from Apple.
;)
Will this only extend to the music portion of the car?
Or will apple oversee other parts like navigation etc..
It was not known according to the article, but the take away was BMW was not happy with their Microsoft solution.
So you next car might not have a steering wheel but perhaps a "Clickable scroll wheel"
This is it! This is how they get the military! Soon, elite Microsoft stormtroopers will swarm thestreets, while all of our military is sitting in vans.
And those doors won't open.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Does anyone know of a open source project to control a Fuel-Injected engine? I have been thinking about how to set it up, and am not sure of the off-the-shelf hardware that would be needed. But since most engines just use a simple collection of sensors that return a given voltage it probably wouldn't be that hard. And feedback is done by sending X volts to device Y.
So anyone who knows of USB/PCI/Serial devices that can communicate this way on many (30 - 40) lines. Post them here, please!
I'd ideally want an embedded solution, but why not a PC-based solution. You'd just have to wait for the PC to boot before you could start the car.
I'm looking forward to the System Restore feature, I've had hail damage for 2 years that would cost a fortune to fix the old fashioned way.
It's only a model.
I can see the confusion now...
Geek walks into auto dealer:
"I'd really like a car without Windows, please."
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
I truely don't understand geeks who claim microsoft sucks but still for example have an xbox at home. If you don't want to buy a car with Microsoft software on some device, tell the salesperson that you won;t buy like the car because it uses Microsoft software. It's that simple, really.
The article doesn't say _anything_ about wince running the fuel injectors, or the ABS, or air bags, or brakes, or steering... It mentions only annoying stuff that has no business being in a car anyway.... Having an in-vehicle DVD player itself is probably more likely to cause crashes than what operating system is being run on said DVD player. Yes, I'm old. I drive a 21 year old diesel truck with no electronics and 440,000 miles on the odometer.
seems like it's audio only
What would happen if you clicked 'No' to the EULA? Would you have to return the car for a refund?
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
Clippy: you have made a left turn, a right turn, and pressed the brake, it seems you are trying to evade a road hazard.
Clippy: would you like to enable the road hazard wizard?
Driver: Hurridly presses the YES button on the steering wheel?
Clippy: Windows ME (Mobile Edition), has many new features, it now loads faster than ever...you can even shut down unresponsive programs without rebooting. Car now approaching cliff
Driver: WTF, hurry up!
Clippy: Thank, you for installing Windows ME. Would you like to run the AutoEvade Wizard.
Driver: Ithought I just did that, pushes yes.
Clippy: What type of hazard are you trying to evade?
- Pothole
- pedestrian
- CowboyNeal
- The hazard I am trying to evade is not listed here
Driver selects the last option, car is bouncing of the guardrain nowClippy: Windows ME has detected new hardware, and is unable to find a driver for it and must shut down.
Driver: Argrghehahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......$^@$^@^@^3cras h^C^C^CC^C^
"Not you again," I said.
"Sorry," he said, a little sheepishly. "I guess you know why I'm here."
Indeed I did. Microsoft's $300 million campaign to promote the Windows 95 operating system was meant to be universally effective, to convince every human being on the planet that Windows 95 was an essential, some would say integral, part of living. Problem was, not everyone had bought it. Specifically, I hadn't bought it. I was the Last Human Being Without Windows 95. And now this little man from Microsoft was at my door, and he wouldn't take no for an answer.
"No," I said.
"You know I can't take that," he said, pulling out a copy of Windows 95 from a briefcase. "Come on. Just one copy. That's all we ask."
"Not interested." I said. "Look, isn't there someone else you can go bother for a while? There's got to be someone else on the planet who doesn't have a copy."
"Well, no," The Microsoft man said. "You're the only one."
"You can't be serious. Not everyone on the planet has a computer," I said. "Hell, not everyone on the planet has a PC! Some people own Macintoshes, which run their own operating system. And some people who have PCs run OS/2, though I hear that's just a rumor. In short, there are some people who just have no use for Windows 95."
The Microsoft man looked perplexed. "I'm missing your point," he said.
"Use!" I screamed. "Use! Use! Use! Why buy it, if you can't use it?"
"Well, I don't know anything about this 'use' thing you're going on about," The Microsoft man said. "All I know is that according to our records, everyone else on the planet has a copy."
"People without computers?"
"Got 'em."
"Amazonian Indians?"
"We had to get some malaria shots to go in, but yes."
"The Amish."
"Check."
"Oh, come on," I said. "They don't even wear buttons. How did you get them to buy a computer operating system?"
"We told them there were actually 95 very small windows in the box," the Microsoft man admitted. "We sort of lied. Which means we are all going to Hell, every single employee of Microsoft." He was somber for a minute, but then perked right up. "But that's not the point!" he said. "The point is, everyone has a copy. Except you."
"So what?" I said. "If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you expect me to do it, too?"
"If we spent $300 million advertising it? Absolutely."
"No."
"Jeez, back to that again," the Microsoft man said. "Hey. I'll tell you what. I'll give you a copy. For free. Just take it and install it on your computer." He waved the box in front of me.
"No," I said again. "No offense, pal. But I don't need it. And frankly, your whole advertising blitz has sort of offended me. I mean, it's a computer operating system! Great. Fine. Swell. Whatever. But you guys are advertising it like it creates world peace or something."
"It did."
"Excuse me?"
"World peace. It was part of the original design. Really. One button access. Click on it, poof, end to strife and hunger. Simple."
"So what happened?"
"Well, you know," he said. "It took up a lot of space on the hard drive. We had to decide between it or the Microsoft Network. Anyway, we couldn't figure out how to make a profit off of world peace."
"Go away," I said.
"I can't," he said. "I'll be killed if I fail."
"You have got to be kidding," I said.
"Look," the Microsoft man said, "We sold this to the Amish. The Amish! Right now, they're opening the boxes and figuring out they've been had. We'll be pitchforked if we ever step into Western Pennsylvania again. But we did it. So to have you holding out, well, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing to the company. It's embarrassing to the product. It's embarrassing to Bill."
"Bill Gates does not care about me," I said.
because cars are too expensive. Talk about your high hardware costs. How long until Ballmer pushes for $100 cars?
I may twist orthodoxy to partly justify a tyrant. But I can easily make up a German philosophy to justify him entirely.
Yeah, I can just see it now...
Mandatory Wi-Fi connection with the car...
When you open the door you have less than a minute to start the car and boot up your firewall before the worms get ya!
Who in their right mind would trust Microsoft with any critical system? Not to mention having an ugly "Made for WinCE" sticker right next to the already-annoying dealer broach on the rear trunk lid!
I'm not sure they will get into the core systems anyway. I think this is a likely move toward getting their media formats everywhere they can.
They know it's going to be hard to compete with Apple because the I-pod already captured the mindshare of the important people. (The cool ones.)
If they get their stuff built into the car, then they can tie that, their OS, delivery formats and services into a delivery chain that does not leave room for I-pod.
Blogging because I can...
- Stuff unrelated to driving, like the MP3 player.
- Stuff that can assist driving, like the falling-asleep camera mentioned earlier today, heads-up displays, etc
- "Drive by wire" like the F16. Electronic ignition timing; intelligent suspension, etc.
Do we always want physical failsafes on the deepest levels? Do we trust brake lines/brake fluid more than we trust data and power cables to a remote braking mechanism?
There's certainly a drive to integrate the levels. There are people in the world would would like cars to have speed governors, or breathalyzers. Or features the gently prevent tailgating at high speeds. If Microsoft gets in at the top level through the MP3 player, I can see it bullying its way down to the deeper levels as they integrate.
Laugh What you're describing is Heel Toe Braking and it is used in auto racing.
Exactly what we've come to expect from Windows upgrades -- breaking a feature people have come to rely on.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
It should also be noted that BMW is a high-end product, so they aren't necessarily concerned with licensing fees. So it isn't about money. One thing that BMW is concerned with - quality when it comes to their brand image.
I have owned BMWs for about 9 years now (and no, I can't afford new ones). But BMW is VERY strict when it comes to using their logos and even colors in anything. They are very brand conscious, because they don't want it diluted. They produce phenominal cars, and want to make sure that their brand is associated with quality. I was a little sad when I heard that they had chosen a Microsoft product for their vehicles for that very reason. I actually thought that Apple is a lot like BMW in some respects. They aren't the biggest car maker, they are somewhat of a niche product catering to a very specific customer, and they produce high-quality products. I think Apple would be a great choice, but I think a BMW-home-grown product would also be cool. (Hello? SuSE?)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Now, you just hack into their car, and have them rear-end a police car.
Fight Spammers!
The results have been less than rosey. One famous example is the Thai Finance Minister who was trapped in his BMW after WinCE crashed and immobilized the vehicle - doors, locks, windows, AC, everything.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
You could have it crash before it crashes.
Things to look forward to:
Reboot on the San Diego Freeway during rush
You turn off the ignition and it asks if you're sure you want to do that
You turn off ignition and it asks if you want to install patches before shutdown (then notice the next morning it's been stuck in a loop installing patches all night [this was the case with my laptop at work])
You can only hook up MS DRM stereos, installed by MCSE's
Blue Windscreen of Death
All the cars in the world get cracked and do syncronized driving or demo-derby
Yet another mandatory service you must have performed by a certified professional for $$$ (all repairs are insanely expensive now, if you haven't had wiring, eletronics, mechanicals, count yourself lucky!)
You keep getting passed by that commie nutjob in the the veedub running Linux, despite Ballmer insisting you should have more power.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Only one in ten people would actually get it started on their own.
No owners' manuals. You either know how to drive or you don't.
There'd be no brake lights, turn signals, gauges, or steering wheel. Real drivers don't need all those extras. They do it the hard way because they can.
Door locks would be pgp-encrypted
No windows.
You win. The thread is done now.
Except most of the jokes aren't funny, so you're bound to see most of them multiple times. Oh well.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Great, another place for pop-up ads from x10.com or some company selling drugs...
"Looks like you are heading to the Bater Motel. Would you like to get some discount Viagra for your hot date?"
Next, we will have to make sure Gator does not get installed when we get a new carburetor put in at the shop.
Great - now I can crash my car even after I've already crashed it.
You could have it crash before it crashes.
You can even crash it at the same time! Oh, the possibilities!
Actually, I guess we've exhausted all the possibilities.
Well, that was fun.
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
Things I do not want in my car, ever, and why:
- GPS Navigation System: Maybe for some of you, but I have a good direction sense, mapquest, and a printer.
- TV/DVD Player: Are you fucking insane? You can't watch tv while your driving, and I do not drive my car only to have the passengers ignore me while they enjoy the latest simpsons. Entertain your driver damnit! And don't give me that, "But it keeps the kids quiet!" argument. Fuck your kids, your kids suck.
- OnStar: Apparently, you can use onstar to order flowers, arrange vacations, and have a hooker waiting for you on your lunch break. All things that are safer to do while you are NOT DRIVING. Well, maybe not the hooker, but come on people, cell phones are bad enough, now we have a shopping cart system in every rich man's car to distract him from what he should be paying attention to: the road.
- An OS: Since I do not want any of these handy "time saving" services in my car, why in hell's name do I need an OS for in my car? I don't! Last I checked, I don't have one in my current car, and it seems to get me to places just fine. I need windows CE running my car as much as I need MacOSX running the office water cooler.
Sometimes people get so caught installing a computer in everything that they forget to take a step back and think, "Ya know, this is the dumbest idea I have ever had."--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
iPod Your BMW. Says Apple, this is "The first seamless integration of iPod and automobile."
Others had made similar homebrew iPod and non-iPod solutions before (and iPod and non-iPod after) Apple/BMW's solution.
At this point, it doesn't look like Apple has any official plans to unveil further integration of Apple technology with automobiles. Of course, Apple almost always "does not comment on unreleased products."
the JoshMeister on Security
A car without Windows? How will you see the road? Will it have a funky video system, and you'll be surrounded by screens?
(what a terrible pun)
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Last year the Thai Finance Minister was trapped inside his BMW allegedly due to a software glitch. http://www.thaivisa.com/index.php?514&backPID=514& tt_news=325
But another report said it was due to an electronic failure..
http://asia.cnet.com/news/systems/0,39037054,39130 270,00.htm
The windows in my car work just fine and I have 6 of them. Four of them are as interactive as I get with windows anymore. I put it up, I put it down. It even has it's own version of "Shutdown": Push the button, hold for .5 sec and release and it will go down all by itself.
My question is: If this was in a Jeep, could I "remove the windows" when I go off-roading or would I have to rebuild the Jeep? Will there be an "Add/Remove Hardware" button in the jeep to remove and install my windows? What about the doors or the hard top?
Sorry, but this statement is straight up false. The WinCE kernel is based off of the Windows NT 4.0 kernel. Also, WinCE shares the architecture of Windows 2000.
Microsoft ripped out a large part of the OS functionality and replaced other parts. Most of the API is the exact same as Win2K, but a lot of function calls with eleven arguments under Win2K require to you pass nine of them as NULL or zero under WinCE.
Just imagine the security situation this chainsaw OS surgery has created. Think bluesnarfing is fun now? Try it when you can hijack the entire entertainment and navigation system of that expensive SUV that just cut you off!
I've heard that Microsoft made a presentation to some big car company, and insisted that Microsoft had to control the content of the startup screen. The car people did not like that at all.
Please step on brake, gas, and clutch simultaneously to reboot.
More like brake, gas, and passenger-side door lock simultaneously
Microsoft announced that in order to track bugs they will include a new dump screen called the "Blue windshield of death"
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
At a recent computer expo, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.
I hate Windows from the bottom of my soulless being as it is now, trying to solve menial tasks running trivial software. I'd rank controlling the vehicle I'm in as mission-critical. The nearest it gets to my car is in the trunk as long as the puter in question is turned off.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
Since then they have made glossies for an automotive version (along side their PDA version, Smartphone edition etc), though it isn't apparent that they've got many customers onboard.
So long as they stay the hell away from brakes and engine control I'm not too worried.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Scene: Woman tries to start her car at midnight as some vandals are threatening her.
"Hello! Welcome to the Windows automotive helper. Would you like me to?
a) Start the car,
b) Open the doors,
c) Call for help.
a a a!!!
"Hmm... the car doesn't seem to start. Would you like me to?
a) Check the oil
b) Check the gas
c) Check the engine temperature
Ok, go back! Call the police!
"Seems you're in an emergency! Is it?
a) Fire,
b) Car crash
c) Other
c, just hurry!
"Okay, I don't know what happened in this emergency. So i'll open the doors. Have a nice day".
NOOOOOOOOOOO
(Evil assault scene follows)
Ten minutes later...
"Hey, looks like you're hurt. Would you like me to?"
a) Call the paramedics
b) Call the police
c) Call the fire dept.
"**** up you idiot!!"
"Self destructing... have a nice day."
spent 30,000 miles being jounced around subject to flying debris, water, oil, SALT, heat, cold, in a semi-open environment. If I get a hydraulic problem I can spot it quickly by seeing the drip, or noticing the reservoir is down a bit, or the warnign light comes on. If I get contaminated fluid, I can still pump the brakes to a stop. If my 'ethernet controlled' brake system fails, I got nuthin'. I dont like having nuthin', when its my brakes I'm talking about.
I also recall somewhere that a number of senior automotive execs became extremely leery of MS after they did a presentation of some grand vision they had for the automotive industry. Apparently they the auto execs) like the fact that QSSL, besides making a solid product in QNX, has decided that is all they are going to do. MS could take a lesson from QSSL- do one thing and do it right.
Despite the media attention Microsoft has been getting lately regarding security (or lack thereof) concerns, most end users still don't understand what all the fuss is about, because let's face it - that's a problem for the computer techs to worry about.
The general public don't even understand who or what Microsoft is. They just click here to go to "mail", which is 99% of the time, Outlook Express, but they don't know that. It's just their mail. Then they click on the attachment and it opens in the word processor, which is of course Word, but again, they don't know that.
In fact, they don't know, by name, any of the software they use on their computer. They don't know which company made it, and neither do they care.
Sometimes they hear about these 'linux' people, and they regard them as akin to someone who builds a hotrod from scratch - it's certainly not something that they would be doing themselves.
Some of these people work for the auto industry. They use computers, but as an end-user, not as a technician or programmer. They have managers, who use the corporate email program, which is of course Outlook, but they don't know what it's called.
Some of the high ranking managers have PDAs that they use to check their email and show off with in board meetings. They run Windows CE, and once again, they have no idea of that fact.
At this point, does it surprise anyone that knowing what they do about the computer industy, that these companies choose to work with microsoft to get integrated computers installed in their cars ?
Microsoft has always targeted the CEO/CIO types the most strongly, because you only need to put the work in to convince a few of those types to use your products and you'll get thousands or more licenses sold. And guess what, it's those same people who are the ones deciding who to partner with for integrated car computers.